Euro Leagues: German Cup upset & Aarons abroad
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On the Football Daily Podcast, the Euroleagues. With Steve Crossman. Listen on BBC Sounds. Hello there, welcome to the Euroleagues. We've got a Guillaume Balaguer, Julianne Laurent and a James Horncastle. Do you know what? We're going to do big cup stories this week, all right, of which there are a myriad. Now, normally we would do a lovely little intro.

It's rarely about football, if we're honest, is it? It's normally what? I don't know everything about football. There you go. I mean, this is, what we're doing right now is a real advert for never doing it again, Guillaume. I was really hoping you were going to come in with something, but... No, it's usually about teams like Sociedad. Oh, come on. That was two weeks ago. It was two weeks ago when I forgot that Sociedad isn't even a place. Let it go, James.

Guillaume's been there. Guillaume's got a tan by the looks of it. He's been taking the sun in Sociedad. And he's got a new kitchen as well. The weather's been fantastic in Bedfordshire. And?

Loads of great Cup stories this week. The biggest, though, is this one. In Germany, third-tier Armenia Bielefeld will be in the German Cup final in Berlin, May the 24th. They beat the Bundesliga champions Bayer Leverkusen. Stunning 2-1 victory. And the reason we're jumping straight in is because we are joined live by one of the heroes of Tuesday night. Bielefeld captain, Mael Korbutz, is with us on the show. Mael, good evening. Good evening.

Good evening. Nice to be here. Thanks for having me. Honestly, it is our pleasure. First things first, you've had 48 hours, Mael. Has it sunk in yet? It hasn't sunk in. I'm still tired from the party on Tuesday night. I think the whole team is about the same. It's never going to sink in. I think it might sink in when we're on the field in Berlin and we realise that 75,000 fans is a little bit more than 26 or 27 we're used to having at home.

But I think maybe in 5, 10, 20 years, I'll really look back and be like, I can't believe we actually did that. Mael, take us just before you come on the pitch where I guess it was you who had to say something to the rest of the team.

How was the belief at that point? Where's where set? Did you believe you had a chance? How did it go? I always say the chances are not on our side, but every competitor believes he can win. That's the way it is. You get on the pitch and you're convinced that you're going to win.

At the same time, I've said this a few times since then, it was difficult for me really to imagine the moment where you're actually beating Bayer Leverkusen. That was difficult, but yeah, when you're in the flow of the game, obviously you're convinced you're going to win, otherwise you don't even step on the pitch. But...

The message to the team, I mean, we've done it a few times now. Not at the level of Bayer Leverkusen, but we've beat a few good teams. So before every game, you just tell the guys, hey, have fun. If we make mistakes, well, no, we're going to make mistakes. We make them together. We stick together. We're going to score goals. It'll be together. We might concede goals. We're going to do that together as well. And I think that gives everyone a bit of strength. At the same time, we know that in those cup games, you have to...

You have to go all in. You have to press the teams high. You have to try to play as well as you can with the ball. Um,

and your only chances of winning is if everything goes right. But I think you have to approach the game with the right mentality that you want to play the right way. Otherwise, I think if you sit back and defend against Bayer Leverkusen, you lose 5-0. So you beat Freiburg and Werder Bremen in the two rounds before. So as a third division team, you'd beaten Bundesliga sides before. I guess that gives you some confidence, but...

but it's by a Leverkusen. They did a double domestically that season. They went to the final of the Europa League. It's Xabi Alonso and all their superstars, even if Werd is injured.

And you didn't just want that game on a smash and grab, for example. You actually got higher XG than them. You had more big chances than them. You had as many passes as them. So even in your wildest dream, did you think that not just beating them, but actually being better than them was possible over those 90 minutes? Yeah, I think with the past games, we thought somewhere. There's something magical about it. Tuesday night at our home place, it's

when you've had that many success stories, you do kind of believe. I have to say I didn't think it would be that even. And I'm not even speaking about our feeling on the pitch because on the pitch you suffer, you have to run, it hurts, every situation seems very dangerous.

But looking back and you look at the statistics, it was quite an even matchup. And I think that's the thing that surprised me the most because that's a team, I don't know how many times I watched them last year and I was like, this team is unbelievable. Xabi Alonso is a perfect coach. The team is, they're the kings of scoring late goals and winning every game. I mean, the only game that they lost last season was in the final of the Europa League. So it's a team that made us all happy.

last year and now you end up on the pitch against them. It was surreal. So to say that the game was pretty evenly matched is the thing that surprised me the most, to be honest. Just tell us about the actual experience, like from a non-playing perspective, because

Because firstly, some of the guys that you're obviously coming up against are absolutely massive names. But also, is it kind of surreal on a night like that? You know, you'll look around the pitch and see legends of German football, for example, doing TV coverage. You're just surrounded by stardust, I guess. The first moment I had was we're warming up. We're starting to warm up. And I look over and I see Bastian Schweinsteiger, who's...

A German legend. So I look over and I see him. And I think he caught me looking at him because he kind of looked back at me. And then I kept looking at him because I was like, this is not actually happening right now. I know he's a commentator, but I didn't expect him to see him that close up. So that was the first moment. And then, to be honest, the whole game, like I'm standing there going...

Going up to a header against Granit Xhaka, I'm an Arsenal fan, so that means quite a lot to me. Even guys like André in midfield, he was in the Euros with Germany last summer. Mukiele played for PSG and I'm also a PSG fan. It's crazy. Boniface came on the field.

I tried to say something to him because he hit our goalie and he just shooed me away. He gave me one of these. And I was like, yeah, okay, he probably deserved that. He's allowed to do that because he's that far above me. So it was, you know, there were a ton of moments in that night. And then you look over and you see Xabi Alonso on the sideline with his sweater and you're like, I've imagined this moment every night for the past week, but to actually see it,

And to see him get upset, for me it was absolutely surreal. The whole experience. Especially because, as you mentioned, there are commentators that I never would have dreamed even meeting or being literally on the same pitch as them. And then some players who are, for me, legendary. You put Bielefeld on the map, which is important because in German folklore this place doesn't exist, apparently, no? No.

That's the joke around here. So everyone who – every German I know is who when I moved to Bielefeld, they were literally like –

That city doesn't exist. And the first time it's funny. And then the second time it's like, okay, I've heard this one before. And by the 17th time, you're like, come on, guys. The city's got 350,000 residents. It's actually quite big. But that legend is like the first thing in Germany you hear about Bielefeld. And then probably the second thing is the club itself.

But that's incredible. You touched upon this earlier about, you know, you're going to go to Berlin, play this final, huge crowd, but reminders of the attendances you get in the third division? Yeah.

You're getting 26,000, 27,000. It's incredible. I mean, it's one of the bigger clubs in the third division. I think there are only two teams that have higher average attendance, maybe three teams. But Dresden and Aachen have 30k every game. And we're third or fourth. But it's unbelievable. I mean, the club is a big club. Three years ago, they were still in the Bundesliga. Unfortunately, they got relegated twice in a row. So we dealt with some very unhappy fans.

at certain times, especially last season we were in the relegation battle in the third division. The club has been through a lot. It is a big club. It's known for their peaks and lows, I'll put it that way.

And I think the past 18 months since I've been at the club have been exactly that, a series of peaks and lows. And this obviously being the highest peak anyone could have imagined. Tell us a bit about your story and what's life like now in the third division in Germany. But also you've had a very unusual pathway, to be fair, to professional football. Yeah, so like I said, I grew up in the US. My parents are French. My dad played football.

semi-pro in Grenoble, who had a different name at the time. I think he played a range from 5th Division, 4th Division. They went up to the 3rd Division for a year. So growing up, it was quite clear that we would end up playing football. I'll say football for the sake of this podcast. So we grew up playing together,

always competing. I went the typical way of, especially at the time of American football player was to go to university, play there for four seasons and then move on. If you're good enough, move on to the MLS. After university, I signed for Red Bull and

They wanted me to play for their second team. I didn't really like the idea, so I went to a club in the second division in the US, in the USL, where the owner had basically told me, hey, if you do a good job, I can get you a trial at MSV Duisburg in Germany.

who was in second division at the time. They got relegated to third division by the time I had a trial there. So I was like, hey, I have nothing to lose. Didn't make it in the MLS. Didn't really see a chance of playing for Red Bull. So yeah,

Why not? And the worst case scenario, I'll live in Germany for a few years and be able to tell my kids that one day. And best case scenario, it works out. And I think the ceiling in European football is much higher than in the MLS, to be honest. I didn't reach the ceiling. I didn't play Bundesliga, but that's OK. This for me is a ceiling as well, playing a cup final.

I had a, in my career, a lot of ups and downs, somehow never gave up. And that's something I've learned that the guy who ends up being successful or the guy who,

somehow has some success to his name as the one who just never gives up. I mean, I was everywhere down the fourth division. Then I was in the Netherlands for two years at Go Ahead Eagles. And then I came back to Germany in the third division. So crazy story, even joining Armenia Bielefeld for me. If you had told me three years ago, I'll be the captain of Armenia Bielefeld, I would have said, you're crazy. And here we are in the cup final and I'm captain and I'm

So it's a lot of luck, a lot of hard work. And I think that's true for anyone who's ever done anything reasonably successful. I just wonder if you agree with me that the success of Armenia Bielefeld this season proves two things. One, that if you're consistent enough, you can be a first division professional. You're shown you have that level. And two, that football is in the head.

You beat Bayer Leverkusen, but you lost eight times in the league. So if you put enough effort and you focus enough, you can be... A team can just beat anybody. Is that what we've seen in the Cup run? Yeah, we kind of talk about this a lot in the locker room because it is, you know, we've beaten... The first round was against Hannover, a second division team, and then four Bundesliga teams. And we won every single one in 90 minutes. So...

We're doing something right. At the same time in the league, we're fourth. We're still in the running for promotion, but we're not first place with 15 points ahead. It's a very difficult league. So a lot of guys say, yeah, third division football is different. It's a lot more fighting. It's a lot more...

There's not as much dead time in the game. There's less possession, a lot of second balls. So there's definitely some truth there, but 100% right, football is...

so much in the head and when you play against these teams, you kind of surpass your limits physically and technically because you know you have to try stuff you might not try when you're playing against Hannover's reserve team. So we really go all in during these cup games, but at some point we do have to realize that when we go all in, it normally goes very well. So yeah, it's a bit of a paradox. It's something we talk about quite often. It's something our fans like to talk about when we lose. They think

that we're just not concentrated, which is not the case. It's just a different setting. It's a different style of football as well. And there's no lying to say that, you know, there's no need to lie and say that it's not a dream to play these cup games. It's obviously a completely different mindset. But yeah, I think, you know, the difference between a Bundesliga player or I'll say an average Bundesliga player and a good third division player

there has to be a difference. Maybe it's inconsistency, but it's actually not that big and a lot of it has to do with where you were in the youth, which coach gave you a chance at what time or at what age. And it's a lot of details that have to come together or a lot of details that have to go

go against you. I kind of, you know, as a player, you have to tell yourself you make your own luck. That's the only way to live life, I think. So everyone gets what they deserve. But it's definitely interesting to see when we have results like that, to see that the difference actually isn't that big.

As the old saying goes, what happens in Bielefeld stays in Bielefeld. Despite that, what can you tell us about the details of your celebrations after the Leverkusen win? I can tell a lot. There's a player who was in the club with his five-month-old baby because they had no one to watch over their kid at home. Yeah.

We had a club that was fully packed. It was so packed that a few players actually went home because they couldn't even make their way in. So we ended up sending everyone back to the stadium and we finished the night at the stadium. We have these skyboxes at the top of the stadium where you have a pretty good view of Bielefeld. It ended up quite nicely. I forgot to eat after the game, so I got drunk pretty quickly. Yeah.

That wasn't the smartest decision, but everything ended well. There were no real scandals. I'm also the oldest on the team, so I'm not really involved in the young crazy stories that might have gone down on that night. We typically don't go out very much with the team, to be honest, but we do after every cup game, so it makes it quite a regular night out with the boys. So it was a good time, but the city was on fire. It was...

It was a mess even getting into the club. I've seen a couple of photos. I'm looking at one now with you all celebrating. It looks like you've nicked the fourth official's electric board. We always do that. Yeah, we... Right. After these cup games... No, we don't always do that. When we lose, we kind of leave it to the refs.

But no, after the cup games, we always have a photo like that with the score. And sometimes we do some dumb stuff on the photo, but I think we were pretty serious on that one. That's a photo we'll probably look at in 20 years. That's why it looks pretty normal for our standards. Yeah. Because you've got this final to come and because you're captain and you must have had that feeling of like, of what if, and looking at the trophy and thinking about how it would feel in your hands. Yeah.

Have you won something big before, whether it's when you were playing as a kid in Alabama as an eight-year-old or during your professional career? What is the thing that you look at now on the mantelpiece or wherever that gives you the most joy? Because you might be about to replace it. To be honest, Tuesday night has to be the biggest thing I look to. I'm sure the experience...

If we win or if we lose in Berlin, the experience will be crazy regardless. So that'll definitely be the highlight of my career. What have I won in the past? Not much. As I mentioned, I've been playing in a few lower leagues,

With my first club, we got promoted to the second division, but I didn't play much. So it's a different feeling. You don't feel like you really played your part in the promotion race and everything. I won a United States National Championship when I was 13. Scored a free kick in the last minute. That was my highlight for a few years. And then even if we lose, the highlight of my career will be the cup final. There's no doubt about that.

It's a beautiful story. Michael, thank you so much for being with us. It's been amazing having you on and good luck in the final. Yeah, thank you. We have a few games in between, but yeah, I'm sure some guys will start dreaming now.

From Wembley to Wrexham and from Bradford to the

Listen on BBC Sounds.

This is Steve Covino from Covino & Rich. Here to tell you Toyota's legacy has been standing tall for generations. From pioneering hybrid technology to redefining the standards of safety and efficiency. With each innovation, a commitment to progress. And with a legendary lineup of in-stock trucks, including the ultra-rugged new Tacoma and heavy-duty half-ton Tundra, you can experience the legacy of Toyota for yourself. Visit BuyAToyota.com, the official website for deals, to find out more. Toyota, let's go places.

Residents at Brightview Senior Living Communities enjoy enhanced possibilities, independence, and choice. Brightview Dulles Corner in Herndon and Brightview, Great Falls, offer vibrant senior independent living, assisted living, and memory care services through various daily programs and cultural events.

Chef-prepared meals, safety and security, transportation, resort-style amenities, and high-quality care. Everything you need is here. Discover more at brightviewseniorliving.com. Equal housing opportunity. On the Football Daily Podcast, the EuroLeagues. With Steve Crossman. Listen on BBC Sounds.

We've got another brilliant guest. We're going to speak to Max Ahrens, Bournemouth player on loan at Valencia. Let's talk Spanish Cup, shall we, while we're getting ready for that. So we may end up, obviously, with a Clásico in the Champions League final this season, but we've got one in the Copa del Rey. Barcelona beating Atletico Madrid by a goal to nil. They go through 5-4 on aggregate. Real Madrid drawing 4-0 with Real Sociedad in 90 minutes, then winning thanks to an Antonio Rudiger goal in extra time. Guillaume, Real Madrid can't defend for Toffi, can they?

Yeah, that's about right. I mean, it was a Copa del Rey line-up, if you like, because...

Courtois, who is not 100%, wasn't used, it was Lunin. And Lunin actually, he had five shots to save, four went in, so that wasn't great. Kamavinga was used as a full-back, Alaba as a centre-back, Mbappé was on the bench. Hendrik scored again, five goals in the cup. He's got something, this guy.

But you're right, Real Madrid could not defend the set pieces, could not defend very well. They only defend because they put a lot of players in the box and that's about it. And yet still conceded four goals against Real Sociedad. It's all good news for, as I said, for Arsenal, because if Courtois doesn't recover, Looney doesn't seem to be in the form that he was, for instance, last season. There was also a situation with Vini Jr. where for 80 minutes he did nothing. One big assist, that's all he did.

And basically the two Ancelotti's, David and Carletto, started shouting at him at the minute 80. He got a little bit upset, but on the back of that, he gave another assist, provoked a corner for the 3-3 and became the best player of Real Madrid after that. But...

again, in good news for Arsenal. He's a player that keeps coming and going from games. And finally, Rudiger, he scores the key goals, as he's been doing against City as well. And that 4-4 takes them to the final. Do you know what, James? This kind of surprised me about the Copa del Rey final, is that it's actually been over 10 years since the last time the final was Barcelona versus Real Madrid. Yeah, I mean...

I think last year's final was pretty interesting as well, you know, in terms of Mallorca getting there and then the kind of celebrations that we saw in Bilbao, you know.

We were talking only, I think, last week about the FA Cup as well. How, you know, if you overlook City, you know, everyone else in that competition, you know, hadn't won the FA Cup in a long time. And it was very refreshing. Even in the Coppa Italia, you had Empoli who,

in all likelihood won't make the final but made the semi-finals for the first time so you know in in our respects these these domestic cup competitions as much as we we sometimes make out that the magic is worn off um there's still plenty of magic sparkling around and in that final in 2014 it's obviously the famous gareth bale goal you know when he pushes the ball and oh yeah the side yeah and that's so if we have a goal like this we all we all for it um

Do you think those defensive problems are kind of fixable in the short term for Real Madrid? Because it's kind of like, I don't know, that feels to me like a genuinely significant barrier to them, certainly in a Copa del Rey final, but in the Champions League as well. And actually, normally when we talk about Real Madrid in the Champions League, it's kind of sort of, oh, they've got problems, but they'll sort them out when it comes to the business end of the competition. Does it feel different at all, Guillaume?

It does feel different. They don't defend very well. They struggle controlling games and they had to use every single energy they've got to beat teams. In the last two months, every game they played against the Spanish side, they'd only won by one game. They had to go an extra time against Celta. They only beat Leganes in the Cup as well with a last-minute goal. They played already 15th.

50 games so there is a physical aspect to it as well it just doesn't feel the same they could go to 72 games if they play the Champions League final and the Club World Cup final so all that points out to them trusting more than ever the individuals but you were talking about not betting against certain referee decisions you cannot bet against Real Madrid because you

even though it's obvious that they don't defend well. As a team, they don't defend well. They're the front two they don't defend.

It's obvious that they need individual quality and yet they're still fighting for every competition left. Delighted to say now that we're joined by Valencia defender Max Ahrens who's on loan from Bournemouth. Max, good evening. Hi guys, good to be on and good to see you. Lovely to talk to you. Firstly, how is the Spanish coming along? You've had, what, a month? It's actually better than I thought it would be. I think before coming here, if you'd have asked me how my Spanish is going to be, I'd have said there's...

There's no hope, but actually being in the environment here and hearing people, it's so much easier to learn and to pick it up. So I can now like understand conversations, but not necessarily speak it fluently myself. Do you know, that's actually really, really interesting just as something to kind of

kick off with, I think, Max, because it's something we've seen in recent years is, you know, players coming from Britain going to play in different countries. It happens now way more than it did, say, 20 years ago. That might be one of the things that puts people off. So would your message kind of be, well, actually, if you immerse yourself when you get there, you might find that you pick up more than you think? 100%. I think I came here with like an open mind and as soon as I arrived, the

I understood, you know, out of respect as well for the people that are obviously here, it's important to

to try and learn, you know what I mean? If they can see that you're trying and even things like good morning in their language, it goes a long way and I can tell they respect it. So, yeah, I've definitely been trying and I've been picking it up, to be fair. I think, Max, you speak better Spanish than you say because I've got the impression, from what I heard, that you've been trying to get to Spain for a while, that you felt that your traits, your characteristics will work really well in Spain. So I bet you've been preparing for it.

In fact, I've got proof that you've been preparing for it. I've seen that you've got a kid, you were dressed in a Bartholona kit when you were eight. So you had in your head Spain, no?

That's it, of course. Is that a real photo? Yeah, even from a young age. I think I was eight years old or something like that in that picture. It was always a dream of mine to play in Spain. Obviously, as you know, in 2020, when it nearly happened with Barcelona, ever since then I've said...

it doesn't matter which team, as long as it's a team in La Liga, I'd love to be there. The opportunity came in January. You said you went there with an open mind, which is great because we know, especially British players, sometimes have struggled to get used to living in Spain. Michael Owen, for example, famously in Madrid, never really somehow enjoyed it there. So,

How did you find it? Did you find it easier to settle in? Did you still find it was a bit difficult to get used to, even if you were already in your head, to get used to a different culture, food, the way they live their life, even the football, all of that? Or did you feel pretty good straight away? Yeah, I definitely think you do have to be a certain type of character to do that, especially as an English player. I don't think, like you say, it doesn't happen a lot. And I can understand why...

for some players it might not be the right thing for some English players as well but then also for some you know especially myself it was something I always wanted to do and

definitely if you're to do it, you have to immerse yourself in it and be all in, in terms of everything, you know, the culture. You can't expect to come here and it be England. So you have to, you know, jump in and be ready. So yeah, for me, even little things, like I said, learning the language, trying the different food, everything, it's an experience. And yeah, I have to say I'm loving it. Mag.

Max, two questions for you. I mean, you're playing at Mestalla, which is just one of the... I love that ground. Fantastic stadium to play in. What's that like? High-pressure environment at Valencia as well. So, not the easiest place to play, particularly given this was a team that would be in Champions League finals at the turn of the century. They've been battling against relegation over the last few years.

And then, second question, you're playing at the Burnabout the weekend and Guillaume and Crossy seem to think Real Madrid are rubbish. Shut up, man. That's what they said. That's what they said before you went on. I don't want to jinx it. I don't want to jinx it. Yeah, no, obviously, Messiah, like, I knew the stadium was...

before coming here and one of my teammates, Justin Kleiber, played here a few years ago and he said to me, he said to me, like, you're going to be blown away when you go there and experience it and I thought, yay, he's just going to say that about an old team and then I came the first game and I honestly couldn't believe it

So it is crazy. And, you know, it's no disrespect to where I was playing in Bournemouth. But going from, you know, there to then straight away to here in January, the difference in obviously the stadium and the atmosphere to get used to. Yeah, incredible stadium, incredible fans. And that's why I feel like as a player, you know, I feel like everyone feels a big responsibility to play.

When I came here and see the situation they were in at the lower end of the league, you know, rock bottom of the league, you know, there's a responsibility for the people here to

this club should never be that far down the league, for sure. You've had, in your first two matches, you had to come up against Rafinha, who some people are saying may well be in contention for the Ballon d'Or. Obviously, if you play at the weekend, that's Vinicius Junior. So, I mean, it's quite the introduction to La Liga, isn't it? I know. Yeah, exactly. That's it. Well, I was laughing about it the other day with someone that couldn't be three...

three, well, if I obviously play at the weekend, you know, it couldn't be three harder games than in world football, really, at this moment. Listen, these are the games you want to play in. You know, ideally, if you could map it out, you'd want to

little warm-up game against a mid-table team before, but that's how football works and these opportunities can come at different times and you just have to be ready no matter what game it is. These are the games you grew up as a kid dreaming about playing in. It hasn't been the easiest of times for you. You started when you came in, but of course, Carlos Corbena, who knew you, even though you were a signing of the club, but when Carlos was asked about you, he said, yeah, yeah, I know him, he will be great for us.

but it's been a little bit hard. Why do you think? What's missing at the moment? It's weird. I can't really put my finger on it. It was a bit similar in Bournemouth. I went there and for me, I was playing very, very well. And then I got an injury and the team started to do well. And I couldn't really find my way back in. And then obviously the loan came up here, a great club, and came here.

and I found that as soon as I came as well the team you know started to win win win win you know most weeks other than I think the team have only lost to Barcelona and Atletico Madrid now so there's been very very good results so you know like I said it's frustrating but I have to think about the you know the bigger picture here and you know if I'm to come here and only

only play a few games and the team remains in La Liga and we have a good finish, then I guess that's mission accomplished really. But, you know, obviously I feel like I can add a lot to the team and, you know, I'm definitely waiting for that chance for sure. I can totally understand why what you're talking about with the big picture thinking there

Even with that in mind, was it quite difficult to decide to leave Bournemouth? Because especially at that point, they're having such an incredible season. I imagine Anthony Iriola is a great coach to work under as well. So it must have been a hard call. Yeah, for sure. I think there was that element of if I wait, I definitely think an opportunity will come in Bournemouth. And I definitely thought, and I know that for sure I have the ability to work my way back in the team there. But yeah,

But, you know, coming and trying, like I said, the culture here and this league for sure is one that I've said before that really, really suits me. And, you know, I know I can do well here. Very, very well. So, yeah, it was a difficult one, but, you know, I made the decision to come. That's why, you know, it is a little bit disappointing that I've not played more. However...

Like I said, the team's been doing very well and I'll wait for that chance. Just to finish before we let you go, the idea is you would want to stay...

next season, whether it's at Valencia or somewhere else, maybe a team where you know you're going to be the starter right back or something like that, because Spain has kind of won you over now and this is where you would want to stay or you would want to come back to the Premier League still? I think we'll have to assess it when I go back. Bournemouth situation, where I see where I'm going to play,

But for sure, I think, you know, I have three years left at Bournemouth. But, you know, if the decision is that I go on loan again or whatever is to happen, whether it's Valencia or another team in Spain, you know, for sure I would be...

more than open to that because I absolutely love it here and like I said I'm you know I'm loving the culture and that's me saying that without even having played many minutes so you know all I can say is imagine when you know if I you know start playing and play more minutes so I absolutely love it here and for sure that's something we'll be speaking about in the summer

Max, it's been lovely to have you on. Thank you, guys. Top man. Max Aarons, Valencia defender on loan from Bournemouth. Let's just finish on the Copa del Rey game because what we haven't done is talked about Atletico Madrid and where they go from here because that's basically that for them this season. That's it. In a month, they lost absolutely everything. And you can tell for the first time, perhaps in the history of Simeone at Atletico Madrid, 13 years plus,

that he doesn't believe what he's saying. It sounds to me like when he says, you know, we know our place in the world, we know that we're not like others, meaning Real Madrid and Barcelona, etc. And he doesn't believe it. It's been a really, really hard time for Atletico Madrid since that Julian Alvarez penalty, in the penalty shootout,

I think it's one win in six for them. And certainly they haven't raised the game when they had to. And what's interesting, and again, that has created a little bit of debate, against Barcelona in the second leg after the 4-4 of the first leg in Barcelona.

In Madrid, basically, the first half Atletico Madrid just defended. One day they decided to attack with three substitutions at half-time. It was a threatening Atletico Madrid that could have turned the tide. They had a goal disallowed, they had other chances, and yet you still don't find that often enough and you still don't find perhaps the maximizing of the potential of the team.

But Atletico Madrid has got one target, which is to be top three in the league. That is the target that Simeone has been given every single season. Anything else is a bonus. He will get top three and that's it. He will continue. But

It is very disappointing that with this Atletico Madrid, the best squad they had, that they haven't managed to go any further. Right. Last for us on the EuroLeagues, the Ligue d'Or side Dunkirk, who were leading Paris Saint-Germain 2-0 seconds before the halftime whistle in their French Cup semi-final this week. PSG scored just before the break.

ended up winning it 4-2. How did that feel for you as a PSG fan, being 2-0 down in that cup semi-final? So what was funny was Saturday, PSG played at Saint-Etienne, watched the game. PSG were terrible for the first half hour, so I turned over. I said, I will watch the game later. It's fine. Recorded it. And then from the moment I stopped watching, PSG started playing much better.

So I've got a question for all of you, which is your best number one?

Nearly shocks? Is this the thing that occurred to me this week is because Dunkirk ended up losing, no one's going to talk about that in five years' time. You know, if we're still doing the Euroleagues, we'll talk about all the great shock stories, but you have to get to the final at least to be part of that. So in England, it's probably Chesterfield, right?

when they were in the third division and they were leading Middlesbrough 2-0 in the FA Cup semi-final. And in the end, Middlesbrough with Janinho and Ravanelli came back and won it, despite the fact that Chesterfield had a shot which definitely went over the line, which wasn't given. So that's our equivalent of Dunkirk. What are the other ones, though? Well,

Well, Mirandes made it to the semi-finals of the Copa del Rey, played against Real Sociedad. Mirandes, the manager of which was Andoni Iraola. Mirandes was in the second division, not a candidate to go up. And Real Sociedad went 1-0 up.

I think in the first half, Mirandes scored 1-1, Real Sociedad scored a second, and that was it. It was 2-1, and Real Sociedad managed to get to the final. That was the closest to the... No doubt the biggest... It could have been the biggest shock in the history of the Cup. James? Well, I'm trying to think, like, recently in the last 10 years, I mean, because teams outside of the top flight don't really get to the semifinals or the...

or the final, the Coppa Italia. But in 2016, Alessandria got there until AC Milan pumped them 5-0. That's all right. It doesn't matter. It's about getting there, isn't it? But yeah, I mean, it was quite romantic because one of AC Milan's greatest ever players, in fact, the first Italian player to ever win the Ballon d'Or, Gianni Rivera, his first team was Alessandria. But yeah, that was the most recent one.

one. All right that's it for the EuroLeague's big thank you to Guillaume Balaguet, Julien Laurent and to James Horncastle. Next up on the Football Daily it'll be the commentator's view with John Murray, Ian Dennis and Alistair Bruce Bull. As always thank you so much for listening.

It's the scandal that rocked rugby union to its core. The so-called Bloodgate scandal. Tom Williams now receiving attention. It seems so clear that this wasn't real blood. It's out and out cheating. This is a story of lies and deception.

Listen on BBC Sounds.

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