BEST OF The Commentators' View
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Hello and welcome to a Best Bits episode of the Commentator's View, a new podcast on the Football Daily feed. I'm Alistair Bruce Ball and each week I pick up the lit mic along with Ian Dennis and our correspondent John Murray to tell you some of the stories behind the commentaries. Your questions are always welcome. The email address is tcv at bbc.co.uk and one of the things we get asked about a lot is how we prepare for games and what research we do. It turns out

that Ian Dennis has a big red hardback book with every squad written down in there and every single result. You're right, I carry around this season's as well as last season's because it's sometimes just as a point of reference you can then go back and look at a corresponding fixture. So I also keep a hardbook of England stats as well, which actually last time out when I was covering England in October, I foolishly left it behind at home and

and I needed to refer to it, and therefore I had to phone home to get my son to get me screen grabs of the last seven pages. So that England book goes back to 2009, but you're right, I'm currently on book 27 of every Premier League squad in every game. Whereas mine are loose leaf as opposed to hardback. So that means that I can take just the two teams that I'm covering at any given time,

And a large part of the reasons for that, I want to remember going on, this is way, way back, my early days. And John Champion was on that trip. And John, similar to Ian, had a hardback book and it went missing. And I think he got it back, but he was absolutely bereft.

in the time that he thought he'd lost this because, you know, we know how much work there is that goes into that and also how important I feel it's absolutely crucial when I'm preparing for a match to be able to go to that. And, you know, yes, it is all available online

on the internet, you can find it all. However, the way that I do it, I'm sure Ian, you're the same. I know I've got everything I want where I need it. And you can have that with you in a ground where sometimes Wi-Fi isn't reliable. But if you need that information, it's there. But I'm petrified that if I did it in your style, Ian, that I would lose it. Well, I could easily lose it. I probably will one day. But the only thing is, on a Saturday three o'clock, and it happened early this season, and it might have been even Nielsen,

scored what I thought was his first goal for Bournemouth.

And I was able to flick open, flick through the pages and then get confirmation and say, well, I think you'll find that was his first goal, even though I wasn't necessarily covering Bournemouth on that particular day. So it was still, the information was still very much quickly to hand. And I think the lovely thing about doing it the way you two do it is that even though you're initially getting those stats from somewhere else, because you've done the work and written them down, you trust them 100%. Unless I've made the mistake

and therefore my information then is slightly... Which can happen. Which can happen. But then we've got summarizers who'll kindly remind you of that. Yeah, but all it needs is a wrong X in the wrong column and then all of a sudden a certain player has got 299 appearances instead of the 300 that I thought he'd got. But generally, I think, we do tend to trust our own work. Yes. Would be the answer to that. I then back that up then onto floppy disk. I generally do.

I've still got a floppy disk. I've got a new computer and I had to get an adapter for the floppy disk. I don't think you've still got it. No. Yeah, I have. And when that dies, when that machine dies, it's not going to be backed up, is it? Because you're not going to be able to find a replacement. Well, I can know where John Champion's coming from from when he was bereft because a few years ago, ahead of a new season...

floppy disk didn't work just didn't load and I'd lost six teams stats

I had to start all over again. So what I've done since is that I've now got one of these and I back it up onto... People won't be able to see that, Ian. A USB stick. Yes. That's it. USB stick. It's a Paris Saint-Germain USB stick, no less. Okay. Very good. If anyone's tuned in for this wondering what commentators were going to talk about and thought it might be a little bit geeky, then they've got exactly that in the first five minutes. It's inside, John. It's inside.

So that's Ian Dennis and his floppy disk. Is it still going strong, Ian? It's not drooped, has it? So many ways to answer that, and I think it's fair to say that it's still operational. It's good to hear. Ian, you also told us a tale about Celtic and Liverpool legend Kenny Dalgleish. Yeah. So, Kenny Dalgleish was, still is, one of my all-time heroes. I absolutely adored him as a player.

And in January 97, I'm working at Radio Newcastle. I've only been in that position probably, what, seven months I've been in charge. So Kevin Keegan has resigned in the January of 97. Kenny Dalgleish takes over.

And after his press conference at St. James's Park, he gathers all the journalists. He's looking at how he's going to address everybody and tells them this is the way he works. This is the way he operates. And then he breaks out into an opportunity just to sort of like say hello to him. And to my horror, and I didn't realize I'd said it at the time, but his response was, no, I'm Kenny. And I'd actually said to him, hello, Kevin, I'm Ian Dennis from Radio Newcastle.

And he said, no, I'm Kenny. And I just thought, oh, and I wanted the ground just to swallow me up because I've just got completely off on the wrong foot. I was just so embarrassed that I'd made such a gaffe as a first impression. I was mortified. Kevin Dalgley. I don't know about you, Ali. I think it's when you meet these people, particularly when we were younger,

It's quite daunting, isn't it? Because at the end of the day, we're all football fans and we've all idolised these people. Yeah, the one I always find tricky is when you're down in a tunnel and you're about to do an interview and the player arrives, but then you might have a minute or a minute and a half to kill before the interview starts. So the natural thing to do as an ordinary human being, which I would do down the pub or in the park or whatever, is start a conversation about...

something or other. But with these people, what do you talk about? Because if you talk about football, you're about to do that anyway in the interview. But if you go, you know, what's your favourite movie? What did you see at the movies? They're just, you know, I just don't know what to do with that time. I find that very difficult. Ian's very good at that, actually. You're quite good, aren't you, Ian, at disarming them? Back in the day with England, it always used to be the manager and the captain.

who would speak on minus matchday one, the day before a game. Matchday minus one? Yes, that's what I said. Did I not say that? You said minus matchday one.

Okay, well, match day minus one. Yes, the continental way, John. Yeah, it is. Sorry, I forgot. He's such a master of foreign languages that it just happens automatically. Yeah. So, but it was always the manager and the captain and I would always speak to the captain. So I used to speak to Stephen Gerrard on a regular basis and he pitched up for the interview and we were

talking for about 15-20 minutes about all sorts the football holidays how he is he asked me how I was and then I said oh we're going to go in here to do the interview he actually said we could have done the interview by now but we were just happily just chatting away and he was so relaxed and

And in the end, I probably spent close on three quarters of an hour with him because of the time that we're with a preamble and then the actual interview himself. Yeah. But that helps, doesn't it? And that definitely helps with the interview that you then do. I think if you're able to do that, I have to say, you know, obviously don't want to pat each other on the back, you know, doing this podcast, but your, your interview with Harry Kane that you did ahead of the Republic of Ireland game, that, that,

It rang out to me across the radio when I listened to it. There is someone who trusts you, who you've interviewed plenty of times, that you could ask direct questions. He's now a lot more comfortable in giving direct answers, but you can tell that that relationship has built up over a period of time. Where were that not you asking the questions and someone Harry Kay maybe didn't know, you might not get the same responses. But I think that is, A, the beauty of radio, that when you've got somebody one-on-one, it's...

intimacy of the medium if you like but also you're right it's like when John speaks to you know John would have asked Gareth Southgate a few difficult questions during his time and there is a level of respect there because that individual knows that you've been covering England for a period of time whereas if you go speak to you know a manager in the Premier League who hasn't seen you before straight away that they're a little bit more guarded.

So an interesting little look there behind the curtain of interviewing the big names. Just make sure you know your Kennys from your Kevins. That's all I'd say. Now a glimpse of what it's like for Ian doing a Saturday three o'clock commentary while also providing the fastest goal service around.

Well, yeah. I mean, anybody who's seen Final Score on a Saturday afternoon and sees the video printer, I essentially have got a computer screen either to my left or to my right, which is exactly the same feed as that. So I get a list of all the goals as they go in. I've got a crib sheet to my left-hand side, which tells me where our featured reporters are around the country. And as

as well as commentating on the game, watching that screen, I then got incessant talkback from the producer. And that was just for Claire as well, the incessant, because when I once used that in a little seminar at the start of the season, it didn't go down too well that I described her talkback as incessant.

I've also described sometimes the talkback as bellowing, but I do need firm instruction from Claire, who basically just keeps me on the straight and narrow. So you've got constant talkback. And invariably, when I'm handing then, say to you, if you're reporting at Portman Road,

I don't hear what you're saying because I'm then getting my next instruction to go somewhere else. And it's not just the football either. We've got the rugby, the horse racing, sometimes the golf. So that's just a brief description of what we've got to contend with on a Saturday afternoon. Particularly during that three o'clock on Saturday, as Ian says, the producer has got to be as sharp as the commentator, if not sharper.

because you're dealing with all sorts of information about goals going in and reporters buzzing you and saying, come to me here. And then you've got to give that information to the commentator in as concise a form, as clear a form as possible, short and sharp. What's actually nice to do, which we can do, is...

and I will do probably a couple of times during a season when it works out is to actually be in there on a Saturday afternoon say you know when we get to a certain point in the season in the studio you mean yeah if I've maybe been to the early match yeah

Or if FA Cup weekend, of course, as well, when we'll be doing commentaries all day long. Sometimes if it's a big story and it's in the region of the studios, they'll say, can you come in for five o'clock for sports report? And you'll go in there. But it's actually, it's a bit of an education and a reminder because we've all done it, haven't we? We've all worked. We've all done most of the jobs that there are to do in radio, I would say. And

And when you're able to go in, it is a reminder of just exactly what there is down the other end of the line. And the other thing to say, Dan, am I right in saying Pat Nevin's with you on Saturday for Arsenal? He is, yes. So the role the summariser plays, I think that's a really difficult job on a Saturday as well because you might not speak for 15 minutes. I think that's the reason why Chris Sutton tends to enjoy working on a Saturday so he doesn't have to speak. It's just an easy gig for him. But Pat gets it. Obviously, Pat's well-versed in

in football presentation. And so Pat will get the instruction. He'll either be concise in his reply or he'll team me up by saying, we might now be going off to venue X or whatever. So, so Pat is, uh, Pat's very good to work with in that respect. Talking of summarizers, we had Connor McNamara on for a special episode recently, and he told us about how he once put his foot in it with the old Stoke and Gillingham manager, Tony Pulis. So I was doing a game and,

and we were talking about great comebacks or whatever, and I said, you know, I mean, even if you're not a fan of the team, I mean, things like that, that famous Paul Dickoff game at Wembley when he scores the goal, I mean, it doesn't matter, you know, I mean, that was just a great story, and, you know, your heart would have to go out there, and he was, look, give me the evils, and I didn't,

It didn't click with me. It didn't click. That Tony Pulis was the opposition manager. He lost that playoff final. That is also like, and I heard Chappers telling the story against himself the other night, sitting alongside Moyes the other night.

when he chappers slagged off the Europa Conference League and Moyes was sitting there having won it. It was lovely. It was very funny. If ever I'm in need of a little pick-me-up, I watch this 10, 11 seconds that Chris Sutton sent me of Ian driving Chris Sutton and Chris Waddell

The wrong way down a one-way street that gets so incredibly narrow in Portugal, Denno, that you get stuck and you have to bang the car into reverse. And you couldn't have two worse people in a car alongside you not to help you with that situation. And honestly, every time I watch that, and I'm sorry our listeners will never get to see this, it's tears of laughter from me. It really is because you've got a panic on there.

Was it Steve Bridges, our engineer? Yeah. So I was driving back from Gimaraes to Porto five years ago after the Nations League. I think it was a semi-final. It wasn't a one-way street. We just took what we thought was a quick shortcut. I think it might have been a sat-nav issue again, was it? Well, this time the sat-nav was working and the sat-nav had said to us that we could get through this road. So we were driving through it.

But I thought my eyes were deceiving me. I thought, this lane is narrowing. It's like Alice in Wonderland, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. But Steve Bridges was there going, you can get through that. You can get through that. Anyway, because it was night, it was dark. I'm thinking, I'm not too sure. Anyway, I eventually got all the way through. And then I thought, I can't, you know. But at that point, I was almost wedged in. But the trouble was, because you're driving on the left-hand side,

I couldn't reverse because my angles, looking over my right shoulder, it was throwing me a little bit. I had Chris Waddle in the back going, I had Chris Sutton chuntering and swearing. And then I thought, I need to start swearing then because then it'll never go out on air. He can never then use it. So I was deliberately swearing, calling him a few names. But I'm not being funny. We were in there for, I reckon, for over 20 minutes. Steve Bridges said, I'll get out and drive.

But he actually realised he couldn't open the door because as soon as he looked to his right, there was a wall there. Chris Sutton was going to climb out the back window. Then a dog started barking. He started... He panicked and was scared. So we were there for over 20 minutes. I honestly thought I was never, ever going to get out of there. The video I've seen only lasts 12 seconds and Chris Sutton obviously unhelpfully is filming you while you're under pressure. And Steve Bridges says something like...

You've got loads of room on my side and then Chris pans the camera and there's about an inch and a half between the door and the wall and you just hear Chris go, loads is a stretch. The perils of driving with Chris Sutton in the back seat. And it always seems to be Ian, whether it's driving difficulties in Portugal or this story about getting soaked at Newcastle St James' Park.

Yes. Well, for the listener who doesn't know, we're about probably eight rows back from just behind the dugouts at St. James's Park. And you are therefore open to the elements. And so when it does rain, you do get wet. And so much so that I've now got a protective sheet that I put my commentary notes inside because during the pandemic, February 21, St. James's Park. And if you remember, we had to be in situ then for about.

1.30pm, didn't we? We couldn't get access to the ground. There was obviously no crowds at the time, so we had to be inside the ground for 1.30pm. It was a three o'clock kick-off and it hosed it down at Newcastle this particular day.

And you might as well have just, we might as well have walked into a shower because before the game has started, the notes had just disintegrated. We were soaking wet through. It was a miserable experience. We were doing the commentary under umbrellas, hoods up, all the way through, all our clothes drenched. And so actually I had a flashback during the Liverpool game. It wasn't as bad as that particular occasion. And I'm glad you mentioned Gary because I wouldn't want to upset the producers at all.

But Gary did enlighten me that he actually travelled home in his boxer shorts that particular day. He was that wet. Yeah, well, that is history repeating itself, isn't it? Because do you remember the famous game at St James' Park when Ruud Gullit was sacked when they lost to Sunderland?

That's right. That was played in a... Alan Shearer was benched. Yeah, that's right. Shearer on the bench. And our much-missed colleague David Oates and Mike Ingham were commentating on that match. David had to go and buy a new suit the next morning because he was going to interview Brian Robson at Middlesbrough.

And Mike, I hope I'm not giving anything away that I shouldn't, Mike that day drove home in his underpants. Well, I can actually go one better than both of those stories because last season...

And it's the wettest I've ever personally been commentating on a game. And the reason we got so wet was from midday, it was, in Istanbul, monsoon-like rain. I mean, the streets were just awash with water. And you actually didn't think the game was going to go ahead.

But the game did go ahead. Somehow, miraculously, the pitch survived. But you know what it's like out in Istanbul. You know, we're getting a taxi to the ground. Taxi driver's got his music absolutely blaring. Seven lanes of traffic, people cutting in. And he could only get us so close to the ground. So dropped us off about half a mile from the ground in the pouring rain. No umbrellas. We weren't really prepared. We did have our coats on. So we had a half a mile walk to the ground in monsoon-like conditions. Three different security checks.

So they kept us... We were outside the ground for about an hour. By the time we got into the ground, like Ian says, it was like we'd jumped into a swimming pool. And O-I, our engineer, got to the point where, you know you just don't like having wet clothes on your body. It's just uncomfortable to be in wet clothes. He just... Once he'd settled the kit up for us to commentate from, he sat in the stadium and watched that game in his underpants. That was all he wore.

for that game actually in the stadium it must have been very off-putting it was a bit it was a bit bare chested I think he had an unzipped coat over his top half but the lower half was just pants

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Weekend mornings on BBC Radio 5 Live.

Staying on the theme of inclement weather, Ali told us a great story about losing his notes mid-game.

A few seasons ago, West Brom opening game of the season, lovely sunny day, sitting in the commentary position there, all my notes in front of me, Gustav Wynne takes the notes off the gantry down into the fans below, and all the notes I've done all week for the game have completely gone. And so then you're just doing the commentary without any notes at all. But actually, it sharpens you up in a way, and you've really got to switch on, and you've not got that crutch to lean on. And I think sometimes for younger commentators...

It's actually quite a good test and experience. And, you know, if you do have a sort of safe space to do it in, try and do a commentary without your notes and just rely totally on your eyes and what you're seeing. Did you hear that happened to John Akers last week? I was at the Man United Forest game, which he was doing for Five Live. And when he, it was very stormy. So when he got out of the car in the car park, apparently his notes fell from his hand.

And in that classic, what's the thing? What's it that always lands down? Well, yeah, if you've got like buttered toast, it's always the buttered side. Yeah, the toast, yeah. So whatever way he'd been doing his notes in the car, when he got out of the car, the wind blew, and then it turned onto the inked side, the side that he's written on. That lands face down, totally smudged. He showed it to me. Indecipherable. You couldn't read the notes. My notes at West Brom, actually, I've just remembered it wasn't a gust of wind.

it was a wasp flew into my mouth while I was talking and I panicked and I swished my hand at the notes. So I actually flipped my notes and honestly just watching them fly in the air and just disappear. I can't remember who the summariser was sitting alongside me. We both just looked at each other and were like... Well, from the highest ground in the Football League, the Hawthorns, to our high vantage points in the stands, I posed the question, what are our favourite commentary positions in the Premier League?

It's interesting, John, isn't it? As in the best or your favourite, because there's obviously grounds that we like going to. The best place is to commentate from. Forget everything else. Parking, what the food's like, whatever, how close it is to where... Purely, purely from...

Being a commentary position, and we're talking about the five live commentary positions, not the TV commentary positions or whatever. This is where we commentate from in those grounds. I've got my three. Oh, you've got three already? Go on then, Dan. In no particular order, Liverpool, Tottenham and Arsenal...

but only Arsenal on the gantry. All those positions are elevated. They give you a terrific view of the overview. You can see the game panning out in front of you. So if Arsenal's on the TV gantry, and that's what I always prefer to commentate from, then Arsenal makes my top three. If it's down below in the press box, then Arsenal is eliminated. It's way down. I mean, I totally get the argument for those three. I sometimes enjoy being a little bit...

Thank you.

So I think grounds like, I mean, I don't know if either of you two have commentated at Portman Road this season. Not yet. But the position they've put us in there, oh, it's absolutely superb. So compared to where we used to be, we've come down about half the way down the stand. And it's that lovely height that I'm talking about. And I think Brentford is the same height.

for me I quite enjoy the height we are at Brentford I quite like Brentford so that I would yeah have they got rid of the fluorescent lights at Portman Road last time I commentated at Portman Road yes the press box was lit up with fluorescent lights that were underneath the tables no that's not there anymore John you'll really enjoy it at Portman Road I think yeah

But I think I'd have to put Tottenham in there as well. That is just a super stadium. We need an order, Ali. One, two, three. Leicester's good as well, you know. I quite like Leicester. A bit left of centre there. Okay, let's go Tottenham, Ipswich, Liverpool. I am going, and actually Ian swayed me a bit with his Arsenal on the upper tier.

But I'm going Chelsea is my favourite in the Premier League. Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal. The reason for that is I think our current position at Liverpool, it's a great position, high, it's a little bit too far away.

And I think Chelsea, I mean, Tottenham is brilliant in the new stadium, but I think Chelsea is also, you know, when we're upstairs, this is not the press box, which is, you know, behind the dugouts at Stamford Bridge. This is up at the top of the West Stand. It's the West Stand, isn't it, at Chelsea that we're in.

I think that is a great viewpoint and also it is closer than Tottenham. So I think they're very similar, Chelsea and Tottenham, but I think Chelsea is a little bit closer. And then I'd put Arsenal, the upstairs Arsenal, in third place. And the reason for that is that when you're up there, it's actually very difficult to see the side of the pitch where the managers are.

So if anything happens down there, very often it will happen out of your eyesight if you're on that Arsenal upper tier position. So those would be my three. Just talking about big games and then obviously goals in big games, every time I go to Anfield or listen to a game from Anfield, I can't help Ian but think of...

Your commentary alongside Alan Shearer, the night that Liverpool beat Barcelona, the famous comeback win in the Champions League semi-final. Is that one of your favourite nights ever of doing this job? Yes, undoubtedly. And the thing is, is that we'd actually pre-empted it because I remember speaking to Alan beforehand, just saying to him, if there's one place where it could happen, it will be Anfield. And if you're not a Liverpool fan...

you'll go, "Oh, that's just a cliche. It's a tired old cliche."

But if you are a Liverpool fan and you've been to Anfield and you've experienced those European nights, then you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. I also think your commentary on that goal, and I'm sure John will agree with me on this, is a great lesson in exactly what you were saying, John, is you can go into a big game and have loads of notes about previous history and encounters and stories and whatever, and you've got your notes in front of you in a game. But that is such a great lesson in, particularly for a radio commentary, having your eyes on the action and...

at all times and not down in your notes because that quick thinking corner what are you going to say that you know that set up that goal where Liverpool dummied didn't they as if they were going to take the corner and then it's suddenly whipped in by by Trent Alexander-Arnold to Origi the day you do the perfect commentary is the day that you should retire that's what I was told by Tom Schofield who worked he was the voice of Yorkshire cricket for many many years and

And he said that to me. He said, you'll never do a perfect commentary. There's always something you'll look back and think, I should have done this, I should have done that. And actually, that Alexander-Arnold, that quick thinking, I was behind play because I momentarily had looked down at my notes, looked up, then saw it, and I actually felt that I wasn't on top of the situation as much as I should have been. Really? Yeah. Clever play. He knows that. He's standing in front of him. He's blocking him. Oh, he turns in! Oh!

It's Origi! Liverpool own it now! And Liverpool may well have produced the greatest European comeback ever. The greatest European comeback ever. Unbelievable. Oh my Lord. Trent Alexander-Arnold. We talked about crosses. They go to sleep. He takes it.

It was quick thinking by Alexander-Arnold and it did almost catch me out. So I wasn't particularly happy about that part of the commentary, if I'm being brutally honest. Shall we draw things to a close? Can I just chuck in one really geeky thing before we do that, John? Because I'm quite excited about this. And in the first couple of podcasts, you brought it up both times. There are certain elements of this pod that are a bit sort of

niche from the football commentators point of view and if you're looking for some geek factor then you're going to get it

I am talking to you on a brand new lip microphone here. So these are the old-fashioned looking microphones that we've commentated on for as long as I've since been doing the job. Raymond Glenn Denning was commentating using one of those. You know, box-shaped at the top, and they've got that little bar that sits on your top lip. So I've picked a couple of new ones up recently because my others were misbehaving. Well, I have, and it's lovely to have a brand new shiny microphone. But what will amuse you about it? Have you got any new ones, Ian?

No. What's really pleasing me about it is not only is the microphone new, but it's come in this shiny new case. So to look after it, it's come in this sort of black, hard plastic protective case. And when you open the case, there's a foam inset with the shape of the lip mic. So you can just put your lip mic in there and then close it. I feel like James Bond opening his case with his Walther PPK, honestly. Yeah.

I really, when I get to the commentary position, I put it on the table and I open it with a flourish as if I'm about to remove my, honestly, I'm loving it. Do you then get the lead and you go, click, click? Yes. Licence to commentate. Very good.

And that brings to a close our little look back at some of the best bits from the first few episodes of the Commentators' View podcast with myself, Ian Dennis, correspondent John Murray, and 007, Ali Bruce-Paul. You can find all the episodes on the Football Daily feed. Sir Alex Ferguson is the most successful British manager of all time.

So how did this apprentice toolmaker from Glasgow become one of the most iconic figures in sporting history? His strength of character, his determination, the fight in him. Ferguson was every department. He can be persuasive, he can be charming, he can be frightening. Go down as the best, as simple as that. I'm Kelly Cates and this is Sporting Giants, Sir Alex Ferguson. I didn't want to fail, I couldn't fail. Listen on BBC Sounds.

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