72+: Neil Warnock’s Christmas Treat
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Hello everybody, Merry Christmas from everyone here at 72 Plus and welcome to our annual special festive edition of the show. With me as ever, it's my right arm, it is Joby, I don't know what your Christmas nickname would be, but Joby McEnough. How are you, mate?

Yeah, very well, thanks. Very, very well. Looking forward to this one and always a great time of year and even better because we've got this man with us. Yeah, the busiest man in showbiz. No, it's not our guest. It is Joby McEnough. How busy is the Christmas schedule for you and what do your duties entail at Casa McEnough?

Well, I've got to say, now that I'm retired, it's a lot more enjoyable than when I was playing. I was very much a bit of a grinch at this time of year because you're so focused on playing and recovering and just churning out the games. It was not the best of times for me, but now I can sit down, I can enjoy it.

those roast potatoes and Yorkshire puds on the table and choice of meat. Whereas before I'd be looking at them going, Oh, I've got to run around a little bit tomorrow. I'm gonna have to leave that there. So, um, no, just nice family. One sister's round couple of nieces, mum and dad. Uh, so yeah, looking forward to it with a, a large helping of work as well, but it's the best time of year in it. Regular listeners to the pod will know that I'm obsessed with Joby's dad, uncle Melvin, the legend that is uncle Melvin, a musician extraordinaire. Does he, does he sing anything Christmas day? Is he,

Is he involved in any sort of like musical bits and pieces on the day? Does he entertain you? He sings things on most days, let alone Christmas, but he'll be coming with the Guinness punch. That's his speciality. So looking forward to sinking a few of those. I had probably 20 years of looking at it on the table going, Oh, I'd love to dive into that. But,

Now, that is me all day long. We'll be bottling it and selling it soon. Anyway, very special guest with us today, Joby, an absolute legend of the game, not just the Football League, but English football in general. Yeah, love him or hate him, you know who he is. Well, I've probably loved him and hated him at various points of my career. I'm very much in the love part of it now. But listen, we have to put a list together of people that we'd like to have

on our Christmas special and all I will say is this man was absolutely top of that list. Delighted that he's joined us today and I'm hoping it's because we've got a decent relationship now. We used to send people out to smash me all over the pitch but we've gotten a little better now so yeah, can't wait for it. You've got to watch yourself walking outside that studio. Chris Morgan's probably lurking. Nearly 2,000 games managed, four Uniteds, a town twice, a Palace, an Athletic,

and a city, a miracle worker in football and with feet. Corns, calluses, but ingrowing toenails are his speciality. Eight promotions, five times he's signed Paddy Kenny, countless chairmen, a lot of wine drunk along the way, and one big row with Kevin Muscat. Maybe one with Nuno Espirito Santo as well. This man is the ultimate definition of hated, adored, never ignored. But beneath it all is a husband, father, and a man who loves to drive himself.

his tractor. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to our 72 Plus Christmas special and welcome Neil Warnock. How are you, Neil? Yeah, very good, thank you. I thought the 72 Plus, I thought that was meaning I was over the age of 72. So, yeah, it's a good one. It's nice to be out.

when I was asked by when I know Joby was on trust me it was the one probably the only one I would do at this time of year and I'm looking forward to it I've always spoke well of Joby and enjoyed working with him it's my show too Neil but yeah thanks for that sorry Aaron Aaron

and he didn't have loads of players out to get you for sort of the best part of 15, 20 years, did he? So I think this is a little bit of payback between right-backs and left-backs just coming after me and trying to take my kneecaps off. I only used to say slow him down. I didn't say anything nasty. Well, I know lads that have played for you, Neil, and I think it was a little bit more firm than slowing down.

Tell us about the young whippet that was Joby McEnough from the opposition view. To be fair, when I watched him, one thing he always knew, he was always going to get a crossing.

with either foot because fullbacks never went tight enough on him and I could never understand it because I was a winger and I used to hate it when fullbacks got tight with me and kicked me and that and so I used to just when we played against him I used to say right McEnough's your man today we are going to play 10 against 10 you stick to him and if he goes to the toilet before half time you go with him I didn't probably use those words

But it's on the similar lines. They follow him up that tunnel. The only reason he kept popping crosses in this is because he couldn't shoot. Neil, what's Christmas like in football? How has it changed over the years? I think back to your days with Scarborough, some of the stories that you've told on podcasts and in your book and along the way. How has Christmas changed from Scarborough to Sheffield United to QPR to...

Cardiff moving on and on and on over the years. It's never changed for me in that respect. I've always done certain things and I've been very lucky really. I don't think we got beat on Boxing Day. So it's one of those things that I still think success in football is 90 to 95% man management. I know we've got all these nutritionists and God knows what else telling you what you can do, what you can't do.

But not for me. I still think getting the best out of the players you've got. And you come to Christmas and you're not going to get fitter at Christmas. You're already fit by Christmas. So you're not going to lose anything for a couple of days. Neil, just on that one, I did want to ask you, were you a Christmas Day man off or would you have the lads in? And what do you think the benefits

or negatives are with that? Well, I've always, always given Christmas Day off. I've always said to them, going back to Nunleague, Gainsborough and Burton Albion as well as Scarborough, I always said to them, look, I'm not having you in. Some lads used to travel three hours there and back, an hour and a half a year, an hour back.

And I said, I don't want anybody driving in the car for three or four hours to train when you don't want to be here. I want you to stay at home, own the presents with the kids, the missus, enjoy yourself, have a lunch, steady lunch, and then try and go for a walk in the afternoon at some stage, just for half an hour if you get a chance with the family, just to get a bit of fresh air, I said, and then you'll be ready on Boxing Day because...

It's a big game on Boxing Day. I'm trusting you. Imagine if we get beat on Boxing Day, it's all going to come down to my fault for giving you the time off. So I'm trusting you with my life and I want you to repay me now by being ready when that whistle goes on Boxing Day that we are right up for it. You enjoyed your relax and we're at it. And that's how I've spent Christmas Day, Boxing Day, all my career, Joby. That's not in the Premier League, in non-league. I've

always given them that day off and then if we were playing away from home on Boxing Day we'd come in probably if it was a long way we would come in late Christmas night and travel and then just have sandwiches when we get there so listen I know I've had them all these fitness guys come to me in pre-season when we're doing pre-season and they say I think we've done enough Gaffer I say dear really well you watch this son I used to do so many laps you know like six laps with these hurdles

and I used to do it and the lads all knew what were coming and lads that are listening to this will remember it as well. So I said to look, I'm going to do sort of four, I might do four. So he said, right, and we come to the third and we do the third and the guy would say, we've had enough. I said, oh, right, really? So I said, I'll tell you now, you watch this. So I pull them all in the lads. So I know I've only got one to do.

But they don't know that. Because in the time I said, come on, we're only doing six. You know, I'd throw that in while we're waiting and having a drink.

So I'll get them in and I say, look, lads, you've done well for me so far. I'll tell you what I'm going to do. You're only going to have one more if you beat the best time that you've already done. If you don't beat that time, that's fine. But, you know, you're doing another three. So it's up to you. I used to knock 10 seconds off the time, you know, five seconds. And this guy stood inside of me and I said, sorry, they've had enough now. All right, off you go now, you know.

And it's still, you know, I know they've got a job to do, but I think sometimes you can let your staff become too important. I've always gone on my gut instinct on whether, and my lads, really, I think, you know, in my time in the Specialty Championship, if you said who you don't want to play against in the Championship, I bet I was high on the list with my teams because you didn't want to play against my teams. It would be bloody horrible to play against. Neil, how has Christmas changed for you since retirement? Because,

between the years of 1967 and 2022, you were involved with football on Boxing Day every single year without fail. So what does Christmas Day look like in Shea Warnock these days? To be fair, we never get out of our pyjamas till the afternoon. We open the presents in his pyjamas. Are you a matching pyjamas family?

No, we're not. No, we're not. Mine are pretty boring. But the kids, you know, they come round even though they're grown up now. Amy and William, they come round. And my big kids, I'll ring them up on the Christmas morning, James and Natalie, up in Yorkshire.

So it's, you know, that speaks to the grandkids. It's just a lazy time, really. And like you've said, Joe, you don't get the enjoyment that you get when you retire, do you? You don't get the enjoyment, but you miss the adrenaline pump, you know, when you know what's coming the next day. Oh, I loved Boxing Day. For me, I would like, as much as you make those sacrifices in terms of the lack of alcohol, maybe not as eating as much as you want, I would always look at it like...

I know if I do this right, there'll be a couple of people that haven't done it right when I turn out on Boxing Day. And I know that I'll be able to sort of get the edge off them. And you have to get in that mindset because it is a difficult time. Everyone's off. It's a brilliant time of year for everybody. But, you know, you've got to just make sure you're in that zone and you keep going. So, yeah, throughout my career, you know, it wasn't a time that I sort of got too engaged with that because I think there's a fine line, isn't there? But since, you know, you have got the sort of

luxury of really just letting everything go and enjoying it. To be fair, when I first started, I went to Burton Albion.

And it brought back memories, the FA Cup run of Tamworth. Yeah. Because Tamworth were our local derby. And in those days, I mean, we're talking the 80s, we played Tamworth on Boxing Day, home or away, and we played them again on New Year's Day. So if there was hassle in that first game, you knew there were going to be hassle in the second game. And I can visualise Tamworth's dressing room now,

you know, and smile to myself. It's typical Neil Warnock dressing room, really. I can imagine him chucking a bucket of water on before we turn up on the floor there. So it's, I think they've got spurs, I think, in the next cup, haven't they? So it'll be interesting. I look forward to that. Which club did you manage where you're like, you know what, I've got the best dressing room here, I've got the best camaraderie, you've got the best unit? Because I remember watching that Sheffield United documentary the year you missed out on the playoffs and that was...

a really fascinating insight. It's very, very unique because there was a sort of a gap between where people didn't make football documentaries. I think it was after Orient for a Fiver with John Sitton because it destroyed his career. But you gave such an insight and it was phenomenal. What I did there is I trusted the guy. They were a company from Leeds and I trusted the guy. I'd worked with the guy who was in charge in the media. And I said to him, look, I don't want this because I hate football.

Absolutely hate documentaries when I watch them like that.

And I said, I don't want this to be rubbish. What I want you to do is I'm going to be myself. I'm not going to think about anything that I've got around my neck during the match day or whatever it is. But because I'm going to do it that way, you have to let me have a look at it before we do anything. And if there's something in my language or something else that I don't like or something else in a certain situation, we take it away. But I don't want to lessen how I am as a manager. And we didn't. I did exactly... I mean...

Some of the shows, I mean, poor old Morgz. But we do have a laugh about it now, you know. Who's picking Lescott up? And, you know, Morgz, when I speak to him on the phone, I said, who is picking Lescott up, Morgz? You know, and he'll have a laugh. But, I mean, the thing about me, I give rollickings out after games and only when I thought they needed it.

But I went to do a press conference after, and I'd come back into the dressing room. Everything's gone. Nothing, no... You know, I had some managers who let things dwell for weeks if they shouted at me, you know, and what have you. I never, ever...

I worried about anybody else. When I come back in after press, it had all gone. We're on to the next game. No criticism. But it was the way I was. I had to let it go how I felt if they let him down. You know, I was talking to Joby about Man United a minute ago and I've seen Dallert. I saw the ball drop him for one of their goals and my right back would have gone up, headed it, gone through the lad, knocked him flying and they'd have been off. And he backs off. And they cross the ball and they score a goal and I'm thinking...

I just couldn't have that, mate. And I think, and then they wonder why. Then, you know, they're not really up for it at the minute. You've got to, I always say, I know I use that phrase, you've got to die for three points, but you've got to care. You've got to want to win your own battle, for goodness sake. Neil, Paddy Kenny gave an interview and he told a story about you in a certain state of undress with pseudocrime.

You were applying Sudocrem on yourself after having a shower, but you were constantly giving the players that famous rollicking. But is the story true? In those days, probably when I first signed him, yeah. And I don't, I mean, Paddy, I think that might be his claim to fame, really. I still contact him, you know, he's a lovely lad. And, yeah.

The thing about Paddy Kenny is, I remember going to... I signed him from Bradford Park Avenue, I think, if I remember right. And he'd come with us and we trained him and everything. And I just liked him. I thought, do for me, this kid. And I said, look, Paddy, I'm going to send you to Whitby on loan. He said...

I said, yeah, I want to toughen you up. I want you to go up there. I said, it's a nice place and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, I cut a long story short. About three weeks later, one night he rang me, he said, Gaffer. I said, how's it going, Paddy? He went, Gaffer, it's so cold. Cold up here, I can't even feel my fingers. Well, you're coming back in a few weeks and you'll enjoy it. And it sort of made him. And the thing about goalies is when you look at goalies, and I've seen some mistakes this last few weeks on the telly,

I could count on one hand how many mistakes Paddy Kenny would do in a season. And it would be very rarely more than two, maybe three, but never, you know, when I look at it today. And that's what your good goalie... I remember Cluffy signing Shilton, you know, when I had luncheon with Cluffy. I had a few lunches with him when I were at Knox County as a young manager. And he said...

Son, 16 points a year, he'll get me. And I mean, I didn't think it were as many as that, but Paddy Kenny were like that with me. I knew that we wouldn't concede anywhere near the goals because he was in between the stakes. How do you deal then, Neil, with your goalkeeper walking into training one day with his eyebrow missing because it got bitten off? Yeah, well, I just pull him and I told him, I said, you don't look so good today, Paddy. Could you...

could you tell me what's happened? And, you know, Paddy told me about the story. He was somewhere in Halifax and somebody said something and somebody did this and somebody did that. And I think all I said to him, well, I hope it doesn't affect you playing your next game, son. I said, forget a good result in your play. Well, nothing will happen. If you play rubbish, you'll be hearing from me.

So it's up to you, son. And he played out of his skin, as you would expect. I mean, that with Paddy Kenny, you know, there was always something coming, going to crop up at some stage, but a real good kid. So we've heard you give the lads Christmas Day off. What about the Christmas parties? Because obviously, especially a few years ago, they were quite infamous. Was there any a time where you had to cancel him if form wasn't good or you were a bit worried about what it might look like or is that?

again something you always had set in stone you'd give them a certain amount of time and regardless of what happened I think it's gone it's gone earlier and earlier now hasn't it really I mean I think the last one I had the last lads I think it was somewhere like end of November you know and it was sensible I think you know they'd fly out somewhere

I remember, I can't remember which club it was now, and I remember how bad it got when I got a phone call that somebody at one of the parties infiltrated. I was told, fortunately, before it happened, a young lady was going to go, a cover-run young lady for a tabloid, that she was going to go where our lads were going and she was going to get some stories.

And fortunately, I managed to get hold of the skipper before it happened and told him, marked his card. And, you know, it went by without any hassle. Well, that's the challenge. And I think for me, that was always something that, again, you go to the gaffer nice and early, sort of earmark a time that you felt was reasonable to maybe go away. It used to be maybe a couple of days, you know, you'd go on a Saturday, have the Sunday, maybe get the Monday off and go.

it was a time where I think for players, particularly when you know what's coming, you know, around the Christmas and New Year period, it's so busy. Just that little outlet, you know, for the group to go away. And I'm a massive believer in having that social time away from the training ground. You get lads who come out of the shells a little bit more, maybe relationships,

that you don't have in and around the training ground and all of a sudden you come off the back of a Christmas do. I remember going into some in terrible runs of form and then you have your time away and you come back and then you get those better relationships forming and I think it's a shame now that there's so much scrutiny for Gruzza players that you have to be so careful. I remember once, Jodie, I can't remember exactly which one it was, I think it might have been Cardiff,

But anyhow, I remember him coming like this, you know, we want to go after the game on Saturday, we're going to go, I think it was Sweden, not Sweden, but somewhere away, we're going to go so-and-so, so-and-so, so nobody will see us. We're going to come back on Sunday night, Monday, and, you know, could we have Monday off? I said, no, you can't. So he looked at me. I said, I don't want to see any of you until next Thursday. LAUGHTER

I said, you'll have Monday off, Tuesday off, then you'll have a walk, hopefully, and have a nice stretch on Wednesday, which I normally give them Wednesday off. I said, but then Thursday, we will work hard and for next Saturday. That's how I dealt with it. You used to have sort of the template, didn't you? I mean, those, the infamous trips to Scarborough, getting everyone in the sea, that was...

that was key to your team building process. Yeah, it was. I mean, I enjoyed it. I don't see any reason why you don't do that now, mate. I can see Michael Tong and Curtis Woodhouse, I think it were, having to take their shirts off and just run into the sea with their shorts on. And we were just throwing, we made circles on the sand and we all got stones.

And it was chucking them into their circle and the furthest away, you know, we had one round, two rounds, and then the final. And then obviously the lads all got behind him. And the lads never quibbled. They never, you know, off they went in the bloody sea. And it was absolutely freezing. And I had a few good times, Scarborough. I made a few quid up bowling there.

And, uh, I remember that was one of my best because nobody knew that, uh, for about a year, I actually worked at a bowling alley when I was, when I was 18. And I averaged round about the 200 mark then. Wow. 210. I was pretty good at that. Uh,

You had your own ball. Yeah, so I had my own ball, gloves, yeah, everything, you know. What a guy. Because when they all chipped 20 quid in, I think it was Pesky Salido who came to see me, Pesky, lovely lad, and he said, Gaffer, you know, what about, we were up here with Bowling Alley, yeah, all right, I said, see if we put 20 quid in here or whatever it was, 10 quid, 20 quid.

So they all put it in and then I get my ball out. I think I shot about 230. I can imagine the boy's face is just, hang on a minute, the gap is clean and that's out. Well, the mouths were wide open. And of course, they're all there at the end and Pesky obviously presented me with the money and I just smirked and smiled as I walked off with my own ball. You know, put it away again until the next...

I tell you, you mentioned Paul Pesky Salida there. He comes in a long line of generals. We've talked about Paddy Kenny already. Chris Morgan's been mentioned. You've got them. Sam Allardyce has got them. Everyone's got them. The generals, the lieutenants. How do you build that army and who would be on your list of lieutenants? I think you just get that feeling, don't you, when you go in dressing rooms?

I look around the clubs that I've been at and you know we went into Cardiff and they were really struggling at the bottom but you looked around the dressing room and they had Gunnarsson, Midfield, Morrison at the back, QPR, had Helgeson and Kaspergaard. Yeah, Kaspergaard. Deser was there. One size. Yeah.

You know, and it was just... So they were leaders. You don't get that type of player nowadays. Now, with Huddersfield, I didn't... When I was at Rotherham, when I went to Rotherham, we had Kirk Broadfoot and one or two other lads in the 30s

So we had a spine down that side, you know, and then I looked at the Huddersfield. It was slightly different there. There were nice lads, you know, there weren't really any what I'd call open-atom leaders and such. So we had to be a little bit different there. We had to sort of take one or two lads in.

Michael Hellick, the centre-half, and Tom Lees. I never heard him speak in 20 years, me, Tom. But what a lovely lad. So we had to do it a different way. They had to be a leader by example. And Hellick, for me, was the best centre-half. He should be playing higher up. For me, he should be top of the championship, Hellick. You know, good player.

and could have done even better, I think. So, you know, you've got that gist of it. And so you put more on to them. And, you know, I've enjoyed the sort of, you know, getting clubs safe just as much as getting promotion, if I'm honest. The Rotherham thing, I mean, we should have had nowhere near had a chance of staying up there. Do you think that's the best? I mean, the Huddersfield, honestly, Neil, listen, I've covered a lot of football. I've seen a lot of teams that are really struggling. Yeah.

that Huddersfield job, honestly, for me, you know, was one of the best. I could not see any way that that team was going to survive. Like you just said, for those reasons, maybe a lack of leadership, you know, maybe a lack of goals, whatever it was, but you seem to be able to, Josh Caroma, prime example of that, was struggling a little bit. You go in there, had a really good chat with him about it. I know him well and,

just a way of getting something out of a player. I just loved him. He was a rogue. He told me a story. A likeable rogue. He said, he went, you went in there and he said, look, you know, you've not quite been at the level you need to be. I think you can go and win us games of football. So what I'm going to do is,

I'm going to look at the opposition and whatever fallback's the least effective getting forward, that's going to be your man. But do not ever let that fallback run past you. If you do, you're banging trouble. And just finding those little ways to get a little bit more out of lads. And I know for a fact that really helped. And he was sensational for you. He didn't think he could do that.

And I think he realised, he appreciated that I was going to give him the best chance of doing that. But I always said to him, look, lads, when I went to every club I go in and when I do the training session, I always say, listen, lads,

you know forwards are going to get the stick. I said, well, when our referee games, you know, centre-halves, what are they? Big, audible, usually ugly. They edit and kick it. They don't have to worry about creating things like you lads up front. So I will never have a go at you lads if you get the ball and run at people and lose. Whereas these guys, you know, they don't get any stick. They don't get any blame.

But you win us the game. And I just love, not Josh, but other clubs I've been at, I love the excitement. Even as a manager, I love the excitement when I was just watching Sheffield United. I remember the wingers, you know. And we had a lad, Ronnie Simpson, left winger at Sheffield United. He was bald.

And all the ground would cheer if he ever headed the ball. It was such an unusual thing. And, you know, all church on the other side. But they excited me. I knew. And if you look at all my teams, they've always got people that excite you. I want to, you know, but, you know, listen, my teams don't pass it around at the back. I mean, they started giving me, sort of putting me in a Notts County, put a label in me, a long ball.

But I mean, I spoke to Craig Short the other day, Craig. When I went to Notts County, we had a back four that couldn't pass water. So we weren't going to pass it around. Neil, you say that people labelled your side and your style as long ball at Notts County. I just want to know what you think of the condemnation of that style is because...

There are many ways to get a job done, but it feels like there is this trickle down from the Premier League into the Football League where everyone wants to be playing this ticky-tacker. And sometimes they just get embarrassed by it. I watch defences left, right and centre every day of the week where the players aren't good enough to play, but the managers insist.

I know they do. I mean, it's a shame, really. I mean, I think from a management point of view, you've got to try and win. If you're in it, you've got to win games. And you've got to win games by either being tactically better if you've not got better players, or you've got to come up with a solution, etc. But I still don't understand how anybody can say we're going to play this way come what may. I don't, honestly. I mean, you know...

I've looked at it over the last couple of years and, you know, people, like I say, have a go at me. But I said, listen, if you watch Liverpool, this was in the heyday.

They whack that ball. They put balls over the top like you've never seen. We're hearing Rush and Daglish and all them. But that's not long ball if it's Liverpool. If it's Notts County and they're near Warnock, it's long ball. There's a time and a place for long ball, even now in the modern game where teams push up, you know the goal is going to knock it now and then and try and catch them out. But what I don't understand is, I watched a game a few weeks ago and the team's losing 1-0 and we're in 89th minute.

and they get a free kick on the half-way line and they take it short and the other

and the opposition closed them down. It goes from one side to the other, opposition closed them down. In the end, it went back to the keeper. And they're losing 1-0 in the 89th minute. And I'm thinking to myself, why don't you put the centre-halves up in the box and take a free kick and put it in the box and try and get second balls? I just, I don't think that's tactical genius, mate. I think it's bloody stupidity, mate, when I watch it. The other day, I saw a couple of goals conceded when the goalie passed it to our

What's the point of Rigoli passing it out if the kid who's receiving it has not got an alternative to play somewhere when it's safe? You don't give it out if they've got people on it. I'm sorry, but...

But I love to watch, you know, when sometimes I'm on my chair when I watch Arsenal and what have you, and I go, oh, no. But they get away with it because they've got so much quality. But they get away with it. But lesser mortals can't get away with that. Because if there's a weakness, the higher you go, the opposition will find that weakness.

Do you think football is becoming a bit boring then in terms of that sort of style particularly? Absolutely. You don't get as many, like you say, crosses into the box, maybe shots. It's always that sort of people want to cut back and keep the ball and then recycle it rather than getting in a position just to whip it. But when you see them in the position on the outside in the box, Job, and you look in the box, there's nobody there, is there? So you think, well, you can understand why they're not going to cross it. But then they come back, don't they, and build it. Who was it a couple of weeks ago where they were down to 10 men

might have been Man City, and they had the ball all the time and going side to side and side. But in fairness to Man City, I mean, they've been the best side last few years. I remember at Cardiff, we've played 25, 30 minutes. We're doing well. We've had a couple of chances, and our goal is made a couple of seconds, but nil-nil, 30 minutes gone. We're coming at half-time with 3-0 down.

And the third goal, the score's a third goal. And I'm the manager of the opposition and I'm saying, what a fantastic goal that is. And I'm the manager and we were 3-0 down. I mean, talk about different players in the time. David Silva. David Silva, Joby, was my favourite. Little David Silva. Obviously, you weren't around then, but when I was a kid, Bobby Charlton, they said, he's lazy. He's a lazy player, but...

But when you watch Bobby Charlton, he wasn't lazy. He just, he could walk into a position to get the ball that other players would have to run and sprint because he had a brain and he made it look easier. And David Silva was very similar. I'd never seen anybody like that team over the last few years when I looked at it. They had a bit of everything.

Not just the creativity, but they had that nastiness and all in the team. They're great. A lot of time for Pep. Everybody said, yeah, he's always...

He's always had the best players. But I know what's in his mind now. He knows now that in the next 12 months, 18 months, if he does the same again, he's a miracle man. Because he knows he's got injuries. But he'll be already planning ahead what he's going to do. Because I think as a manager, he's as good as I've ever come across in my whole life. Perfect time for us to hear a clip from You'll Never Beat Karl Walker with Karl and Michael Brown talking about when Neil Warnock met Pettis.

Met Pep Guardiola. Pep's come over to me and he says, the two people that I'd really, really like to get to know, right, is Neil Warnock and Sam Allardyce. And I went, well, I'll bring Neil Warnock to the next game if you want. He was like, perfect, invite him. And he came in and, you know, they had a good conversation. I don't think Pep probably understood a word he was saying. It went something like this, right? I've got to be careful here because I could get a tone-out. So Pep's talking about football and life and everything. And it's really nice. And Neil's obviously...

Just loving it. And then he's like saying, that Ake guy, he surprised me. He's done much better, Pep, hasn't he? Do you know, I wasn't sure that he was going to be at the level when you first signed him, that Ake guy. And he goes, and that Doki, is it Doka, Doki, Doki guy, yeah, he's looked all right, hasn't he, Pep? He's looked all right, good. Who'd Kyle's gone? Pep's quite good, you know, he has had Messi, he's quite decent. LAUGHTER

And I was crying. I was like, surely he'd gone that high. I was thinking, Pep can transform a bit of a player in here. There you go. That series available on BBC Sounds. You'll never beat Karl Walker. There's two players that owe me big time. Bloody... They wouldn't have a career if I hadn't got involved. I'll tell you that now. And Brownie, I couldn't... Nobody would have him. He was on loan at Portsmouth. He'd been bombed out of Man City. I went to watch him once. He was playing on left wing.

And I thought, I met him. What a likeable little rogue he was. Another one, I've always seemed to get those type of players, but what a player I made him. I mean, he did it himself as well. He worked hard. Some of the goals he gave us in the promotion season,

20 and whatever, 25, 30 yards against Sheffield Wednesday in a derby and things like that I'll never forget. But a lovely lad, I know. Both lads are. I'm pleased for Kyle. He's gone on to play and he's been a good player, hasn't he? England-wise. Deary me. We're talking too much football, Neil. I want you to talk feet to me and Sheropody and in particular, a chairman at Notts County. Yeah, Derek. Derek Pabish, yeah. It was...

I used to do his feet because he had bad feet, suffered with this ingrowing toenail. And to be fair, my speciality was ingrowing toenails. I was really, really...

I could have done that without a shadow of a doubt. What, so if you weren't a manager now, that would have been your calling in life? Yeah, I had a surgery and I used to go around to like British-owned stores and House of Fraser and all them places doing the staff's fee. So I had a, you know, I had a... Sorry, no, no, no, back up, back up, back up.

back up, back up. Let's go back to Derek Pabies. British Home Stores used to go and do the staff's feet. What was it? Just a rolling contract? How did it work? When I first got the surgery, I only had enough patients for two days. So I thought, how am I going to get some more patients in? So, of course, I rang the departments, the employees people, I forget what they call them. And I said, look, I've got a half a day spare.

And I ended up getting six of them for half a day, which filled up my ear in a week, really. So I was quite clever at that. But I was, you know, like I say, my ingrowing toenail was my speciality. Because a lot of old chiropodists in that day, they would just take your nail off.

But I could save the nail. I was good at it because I had good eyesight and good with my scalpel. Derek Pabst was one of them. And I could do it without hurting him. And I remember one day he'd really got on my nerves, the chairman. He'd come up and he'd started talking. He didn't know anything about football, Derek. And he started talking about tactics and all that. And I said to him, Derek, where have you gone? This isn't you talking about why I didn't play him and so on and so on.

I said, who have you been talking to? Well, I had a chat with so-and-so. I said, well, who is he? He's Gardner. He's been talking to his Gardner and he's telling me about what I should be doing. So anyhow, he'd bugged me. So he'd come in to have his toenail done. I remember saying to Mick Jones, my assistant then, Mick, sit in other office, leave your door ajar now. So I'm going to do Derek's feet. And of course he comes in and he sits there and...

And I'd started doing his ingrowing toenail and I shoved that little thing a little bit further than I normally do. And he went, oh, I'm sorry, Derek. I said it was right stuck in this time this morning. I'm sorry about it. Oh, I did enjoy it. Who was the last player you looked after feet-wise? I think Rotherham. I might have been one at Rotherham. But only if the physio was doing it, I'd have a look, that's all, and said to him what I felt.

I'm assuming you're always very much getting a chiropodist in. It's amazing, like, looking back on it now. I can only probably recall a couple of clubs where we'd have a regular chiropodist come in and look after the lad's feet, you know? Well, even at Torquay now, where I am, they've got a chiropractor. I mean, she's ever so good. She does my back and it's brilliant. So I hope I won a lot, didn't I? You know?

and it's only a small lady and she jumps on my back and pushes that knee and I thought there's a few people would love to be in that position with me on my face down and jumping on my back

So it's good. He's had his pluses. I was going to say, you were able to do Derek Paves' feet and you looked after him. I wonder if Simon Jordan would have let you near his or maybe Flavio or Burnett at QPR. Because QPR, again, we talk about you and football documentaries. Four-year plan. Mad. What an incredible documentary. I'll tell you something, Neil. I can give you that documentary word for word. We played Saturday and Monday.

And, of course, on the Friday, Adele come to me, Turab come to me. Gaffer, I have to go home. What's up, Adele? You know, my mother is very... My friend's been shot and my mother's very upset and all that. I said, well, listen, families are more important. Off he went. I said, you come back, but I want you back on... I'll be back, yes, I'll be back. So off he went. Anyway, we got beat four at Scunthorpe.

on the Saturday and we were playing Barnsley away on the Monday and on the Sunday I said we've got to get Tarbs, we need Tarbs so I said to my secretary he's coming in Sunday I know he is don't let him go don't let him go on his own so she rang me he's in I said right we'll stop with him and then he wants to go home I said no don't let him go home I'll get somebody now to drive him home and wait for him and bring him up so they did all that so it comes up anyhow in the meantime

I had a phone call from a policeman who somebody had contacted them from down south and somebody, they got one of our lads' passports being found. So I said, who is it? You can imagine, Tarbs. It's his passport they found. So I knew he hadn't been home. So he comes up on the Sunday night and they bring him and I said to him, right,

Everything all right at home? Oh, yes, thank you. I said, oh, your mother all right in France? Yeah, yeah, yes, thank you. And everything's... Yeah, yeah, yeah, good, I said. So what am I doing with this in my hand? And I threw him his passport.

And he went, his mouth opened, he didn't know what to say. I said, this is yours, it was found in Southend. So how can you be in France if your passport's in Southend? I said, I don't want you to answer that, Adele. You're playing tomorrow. If we don't win tomorrow, I'm going to hammer you. Do you understand? And off you go. Now, I don't want to see you again. Go away. And off he went, and he scored after 10 seconds.

at Barnsley. We won 1-0. But in the meantime, Flavio had been ringing and Gianni was good with me, Gianni Palladini. And Flavio, oh, we need to get rid of the manager. The manager, you know, he's no good. He's not going to get anything now. We're never going to get promotion. We need to get rid of Gianni Sinclair. Oh,

Neil, don't worry, don't worry. I said, well, listen up, Tim. And anyhow, Bernie must have heard and he phoned me. Neil, don't take any notice of him. Just carry on with the job and all that. But that's how it was. I mean, you saw the four-year plan. To get success despite the four-year plan, Aaron, were a miracle, weren't they? And do you know, it was one of the best,

seasons I'm alive you look like you're enjoying yourself there and that's you know after what you've been through with Palace and the administration there that must have been you know really really difficult the heartbreak from Sheffield United going into QPR other side of London very very different dynamic to the football club and

Yeah. It was ready for someone to take it and just make it successful, wasn't it? But again, it felt like whilst you were talking to one side of the room, you had your arm against the door because you had Briatore. But Bernie Eccleston, there's that really famous clip where they go down to the dressing room and he stood there with Flavio Briatore and he picks up a bottle of juice and he's like, we need to cut back on this expenditure. You're thinking, mate, mate.

Mate, it's a fart in a hurricane. What are you doing? I know. But things like that, I think it just made it more realistic, didn't it? I mean, it couldn't have worked out better for him, really, because we got promotion dead right four years, wasn't it? The four-year plan. But the club itself was, I think, remarkable and I loved every minute of it. When I was a player or when I started management, I used to think, no way will I ever manage below Watford. It's the pits.

I never want to go to London. Whoa, whoa, whoa, Neil. I honestly thought that. And in the end, Simon Jordan, he was as good a chairman as I've had Simon. And, you know, what he comes over, you know, he's blonde and bronzed and everything, isn't he? And everything that you, you know, but he was really good. And one of the times where I, we got beat at home when I was at Crystal Palace.

four. And of course I said to Mick, well, we can't do any more with this lot. We'll have to go. I said, and give him, gave him a chance to, you know, blah, blah, blah. Anyhow, he comes in and I'm thinking he's going to come in and tell me. And I said, listen, Sam, it's not working. It's not fair on you that I said,

What do you mean not fair? You're the best manager of the... Blah, blah, blah. You're the only one. He said, so stop feeling sorry for yourself and get off and get ready for... That's how he were. He were amazing. And I can't speak highly enough of him. And I've had some good ones, you know. I mean, like at Cardiff, to deal with...

Vincent, I had Mehmet Dalman and if I hadn't have had him dealing with Vincent, I couldn't have done it. There's a massive difference between being a head coach and a manager and just going back obviously having to manage up and dealing with that hierarchy at times but also going back to Adel Tarap and I remember that season in particular, for me one of the most outstanding individual seasons anyone's put together at

that level but I know you did have to find a way to get the best out of him Mikel Ledgett was a good good friend of mine he'd tell me all he wants to do in training is just knock make people every day and he could fill the lads just you know he did that I mean when he got the ball when I first watched him he got the ball I remember the first training session and he had it was red hot day absolutely red hot day he got black gloves on and

I said, who's that? He went, oh, you don't want to know him, Gaffer. That's Tarabi. He'll get you the sack him. What do you mean get you the sack? And that's how, you know, he said, oh, he'll just get you the sack. I could see that we couldn't score goals. So after that first session, I remember saying to him, Adele, come here, you're not playing now. No, no, I train with the youngsters. And I said, I know. See that. I said, well, you know, on Saturday, I'm going to play on Saturday. And you know if you're...

**** on Saturday, Adele, I'm going to play you the next game. And if you're bad the next game, I'm going to play you the next game. Do you understand? You're going to save us this year and then we're going to have a go next year. And he's thinking, bloody hell, I'm not even training with the first team. I'm playing Saturday against West Brom, top of the league, and we ended up beating West Brom that day. And it was... Sometimes when you look at players...

you look at what they're not good at instead of looking at what they're good at. Absolutely. And his talent was unbelievable. And so I only had one season. Only about two years ago, I think I was at Middlesbrough or something like that, he texted me to say, Gaffer, I'll come. And he did look well. He did look fit. He said, Gaffer, I'll come again and play for you again. He said, I'm fit. Look at me. And I'd sent me a picture. And I texted him back. I said, Adele, once in my lifetime is enough for you. LAUGHTER

Can't do any more than once. All right. So, we had a laugh, but it just showed, yeah. Neil, I just want to sort of get away from football and go back to home life and talk about your beloved wife, Sharon. I mean, your opportunity to pay tribute to her because it's probably not been an easy ride following you up and down the country when you, considering you always say to her, one last job or, you know, I ain't taking anything else. But,

She's had her own setbacks and her struggles with illness. And, you know, you've been there for her. How has it been managing footballers and then going home and sort of being Neil Warnock's husband and father as well? I think the thing, I think the good thing about Sharon is she doesn't really like football. I know it sounds silly, but probably a good thing. Because football doesn't mean a thing to her, you know.

she'd rather be Mrs Smith really going down the road than my Mrs and so in a way that with respect it's been good because you go home and you haven't had to take it when you manage your

You know, it is hard. You go home after a defeat and although you're watching telly and you're trying to be sociable, you can't switch off. It's in your mind what you're going to do, what you're going to say tomorrow, what you're going to do, blah, blah, blah. And so it is hard. And I mean, you mentioned it when I think back. I've been a manager 50-odd years, haven't I? I've been involved. It is incredible when you think, isn't it? I did 16 games and that was enough for me, Neil. Did you? LAUGHTER

Yeah, but you've got grey hair, you see. Well, I was all right until I took that job, yeah. You see, my hair's very good looking, the natural of my hair. So it is, it's hard for the, same with the kids. You know, James is involved as well now, my older lad, and Natalie's up there. They're near Leeds. And then down here, William played for a while and had a bad injury at one point, but he's into golf. And I'm ever so pleased he's in golf because,

He's very, very good at what he does. I'm not saying he's going to go any further, but he's happy. And I love to watch. Toby, I go and carry for him when I can, you know. And I know they do these tubes, don't they? Well, I think it is tubes. They do these golf things. Because I can't play. So I say, look, I'll do my stuff. I tee off the fairways, me. And I only do the par 3s.

And he can't beat me on the par threes. He's lacking such a... Oh, I love watching him. And Amy's a radiotherapist at True Ram, so I'm really proud. I mean, I couldn't go into something like that. I mean, she contributes. It's amazing what they do, you know, people at the hospitals, isn't it? Incredible. So the family life does take a back seat, but I think...

You just rally around, really. It's the same with players, isn't it? You have a bad game or you have an injury. I think that's the big difference. I will say, just having done it for a real short period of time, I think as a player, even when you've had a bad game, listen, it does affect you. Of course it does. And you do take it home with you.

but I think you can almost compartmentalise it as an individual situation as a player. I might not have had the best game. When you're a manager, you could have had, you know, the best week's training, you've got everything set out, but there's still something niggling in the back of your mind. Have I picked the right team? You know, have I got the opposition analysis right? Someone might make a mistake in the game and that's why you've lost it. And then, like you say, that's with you for the whole weekend or the night after the game. And it's just a... I think the thing about...

management for me job is you've got all that Saturday night yeah but you do whatever happens on that field on that Saturday when you go into work on on the Monday you can't let anybody know that you're disappointed or you're down or what you've got to be above that you know I'll go in on a Monday morning I pick morgues or somebody like Jaggi Elke and say bloody hell what's your grandmother wearing today they got a bright jumper on or something like that in the dressing room and and you know

And just have a general shift of mood and things like that and off we go again because you can't dwell. They say it's like 1,526 games or something I've done. So you can't dwell on things. You're going to make mistakes, aren't you, in management? But you've got to get over that as quick as you can. The only thing about it is I think

When we had COVID, I was at Middlesbrough. Steve Gibson asked me to go up there. And if I'm honest, I never tried harder in my life to give the Middlesbrough fans something to brighten the lives up at that time. And I thought, right, my press conferences, I've got to tell stories, I've got to have a laugh, I've got to have a joke, I've got to make things good. So I made it my job to try and be like that. And I was really pleased at how I went there. And I thought, I always...

remember my time there. I still felt that we could have got promoted the year that I left there. But, you know, that's how you do in your press conference. I've always enjoyed press conferences and, you know, having a go at one. Because, listen, people have... My shows that are coming up, Joe, I've got some shows that are going to come up. I never thought my dad would...

absolutely turning his game if he thought I was going to do the London Palladium and I'm looking I'm hoping I can get Tarbs and some of the Palace lads you know QPR and Palace fans and that Listen if anyone was made to headline that venue it was Neil Hey also Ashton Gate I mean they're the team that has given me the stick over the years so I said to my man I need to go to Ashton Gate now Why are you not doing one of the Den?

Well, I did throw, we're doing one at the Palladium. Is that too posh for the den? Well, no, I just think about your relationship with that football club. And I mean, I,

sort of our last-ish football question is about that incident with Kevin Muscat. What happened with Paddy Kenny, the red card? Because that was pure football gold. And I know there are Millwall fans out there to this day that walk around screaming, that's foot Muscat. Because it is one of the best, most bona fide football

died in the EFL lines but take us back to that day when Paddy got sent off I mean it was a bit and it was in the tunnel I mean they were must get waited and got him going and all that Paddy kicks off and I had no idea mate we were in the dressing room knock on the door and it's the referee somebody was saying the referee wants to see you

You and Paddy Kenny. So I said, Paddy, come on, we'd reference you. So we go in and he said, I'm sending you off. I just wanted to tell, what about all this with what had happened in the tunnel? And because we put Jaggi in goals...

I never had another goalie on. And we put Jaggi in goals and the young lad scored the winner. The XF Wednesday player. He scored the winning goal in second half. And we went 1-0 down as well at Millwall. We ended up winning 2-1 with Jaggi Elker in goals. I mean, he did that a few times for me. Yeah, he did. Wenger used to hate playing against my team, Wenger. And we beat him at Bramall Lane one night and Paddy pulled the muscle.

and I had to put Jaggi in goal, nil-nil. And then we scored a goal, second half, a super goal from half way line, and Jags pulled a couple of good saves off. And after, and Wenger's moaning about this, said, Arsene, I can't do any more for you. I put a centre-half in goals. I can't help you any more. Christian Nardy.

I remember the goal very, very clearly. It's a cracking goal. He turned the centre half inside out, he did. Just on Millwall, a lot of people feel that's one club that you would have absolutely thrived at. Yeah, I would. I tried to be there. I must admit, I had a couple of times there and...

And I always thought they got a rough deal with the press, Millwall. And I said something to them a few years ago, you know, when the chairman had the accident. And they did thank me for... You know, he came to see me when I was there at a game yesterday

and thank me for what I'd said because I said people don't understand how much they do off the field Millwall regarding the community and everything all they talk about is the you know the minority fans that cause the trouble but they do enormous lot of work and it would have been it would have been a typical I think a typical Neil Warnock team really that

I think you would have done some unbelievable things. I think, again, going back to that documentary, and I've harped on about it, best thing when you're coming off the bus at the den and some fans are giving it to you. You like that? I like that. What? Is that it? I know. They were just booing, weren't they? But I thought, can't they do any louder than that? I said, is that it?

I just think it's funny that you know I used to always say that at Sheffield Wednesday you know with the derbies when I was at United I'd get off the bus and I said to the lads you get off first lads because they're waiting for me the fans now they used to put these boards about you used to have to walk about 40-50 yards to the dressing room at Hillsborough and

And then I'd get off and they'd all be booing. And I'd stop halfway, I'd find a young boy with his dad and I'd go up to the boy and deliberately out loud say, I don't want you to be too disappointed tonight when you go home so you might have him get beat by us.

don't let your dad be too disappointed and they cussed it all take off again I love all that do you love that though do you love I call it chumming the water I mean there are so many memorable Neil Warnock moments I think back to that that game against Wolves with the Nuno handshake and you just absolutely you know pushing him away but just do you love being the villain

Yeah, I do. I mean, I do like that. I mean, I've had some bad deals. You talk about referees. Deary me. I mean, the FA, I think they should give me my own room when I was at the FA for the number of times they did, mate. You do remember things. I'm glad we haven't talked much about referees. We've still got time. I want to bring down the tone. Still got time, yeah. Neil, well, we haven't really got time, Joby. It's time for your feature. It's time for Jingle Bell, Joby.

Neil, we thought we'd have a little bit of fun in this episode. We've got quickfire questions for you, all Christmas related. So are you ready? Go. Right. First one. Worst Christmas present you've ever received.

Oh, dear me. I would imagine something like socks. I've had them a few over the... Well, that's standard for me. Number two, we're going to go for bread sauce or cranberry sauce? Cranberry sauce, definitely. I know bread sauce's all right, but a bit bland for me, that. Sprouts, yes or no? Definitely. Two lots of sprouts. Double health in there. Ah, I love sprouts. Best Christmas movie?

I like that one that has involving, you know, all in the placards. What are they called? Oh, Love Actually. Love Actually. I quite like that. Fancy little cameo in that. Yeah, I like that. In the remake. No, not really, no. Which of your former players would you invite for Christmas lunch?

Well, I mean, there's so many good ones, but there's a lot from different eras all the way through now. You know, even Rob Coslow. I would definitely not have Rob Coslow anywhere near my house at Christmas because he'd destroy it. Christmas jumper, yes or no? Absolutely yes. I love Christmas jumpers. And from everyone you've worked with in the EFL, who's on your naughty and nice list? I don't think I would actually come out and say my naughty list.

if I'm honest. And I wouldn't be sat here now if you weren't on my nice list. And I've got to go because I've got to catch my train. And I'm only here because I've come back from holiday and got delayed at Heathrow. I've had a bloody nightmare and I'm, you know, just want to get off home. Okay. Well, that was the point. I thought you might throw referees in there, but you've swerved that one. So fair enough. Let's go top Christmas song. Uh,

I like Travelling Home for Christmas. Chris Rea. Classic. I've always liked singing that a few times. Travelling Home for Christmas. That's it. I'm sure it's Driving Home, isn't it? Good vocals. Driving Home. That's it, Driving Home, son. Good vocals. Right, I think I know the answer to the next one. Yorkshire Pudding on Christmas Dinner. Well, who doesn't have Yorkshire Pudding? I'm from Yorkshire. I mean, it's a crime if you don't have Yorkshire Pudding. Er.

Have you ever dressed up as Father Christmas? Yes, I have. I did it at Notts County once with the children. We had a charity thing and also the families of the players came and we gave presents out and everything. Brilliant. Who from football makes your Christmas card list?

Well, fortunately, you don't send cards nowadays, do you? But I think, looking at the top flight now, I like Pep and I think Daiichi does a great job. He's had some difficult periods in the last couple of years.

But I like Martin down at Southampton. There's quite a lot of managers I've got a lot of time for. You see, you only think I've got the badness in me. Well, that's where we're going to finish, actually. And who from football doesn't make your Christmas card list? I thought there was a long list. I'm not going to give you any of them.

All right, you'll have to come to one of my shows and you might have a good night at one of my shows. You'll be at the Palladium, Joe, won't you? I'm just waiting for an invite, Neil, and I'll be there for sure. I know, I know, so hopefully, yeah. Or have I got to buy my own ticket? Well, I'll see. I'll see what's what. OK.

Lovely. Thank you very much. Neil Warnock, this has been an absolute joy. Please don't be a stranger. We've loved having you on. It's been a fascinating insight. Have a very, very merry Christmas and thank you from all of us here at 72 Plus, the home of the EFL from Five Live. Thanks for joining us. Thank you. I do wish everybody have a good Christmas and...

you know, let's get ready for another year. On the Football Daily 72+, the EFL podcast with Aaron Paul and Joby McEnough. Yoga is more than just exercise. It's the spiritual practice that millions swear by.

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And it's done so skillfully that you don't realize. And it's like this, the secret that's there. I wanted to believe that, you know, that...

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