Alexis Mac Allister: Messi’s World Cup Magic, The Slot Revolution & Brighton’s Brilliance
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Hello and welcome to the Resties Football with me, Gary Lineker. No Micah Richards and Alan Shearer today because we've got a special guest. And he's a Liverpool player, so Alan and Micah both vehemently refused to come along. That's not actually true. I'm at the home of Alexis McAllister, as you'll all know, is a World Cup winner. Currently playing in the all-conquering Liverpool side under Arne Schlott. Firstly, Alexis...

thank you very much for welcoming into your home, your lovely home as well. We've got to start with Real Madrid. We're recording this a week before it actually goes out. So, but it's only two days after you played against Real Madrid and what a victory and a goal as well. Well, thank you for coming. It's a pleasure to be here with you. And yeah, playing for Liverpool, a really nice place and a very nice win against a very good side like Real Madrid. I think it gives

us the confidence to keep moving forward so it's nice and hopefully we can get something from this. It must have been special scoring a goal against Real Madrid in Anfield under the floodlights in a big game there's nothing like Anfield is there? The atmosphere especially. It's always special to score a goal but

as you say against a club like Real Madrid is even more I think we play a fantastic game every player the whole team was amazing and as I always say when you play with good players with very good players always is easier so it feels nice and happy for that

Let me take you back to the start. We'll come back to Liverpool a little bit later, but your upbringing. I want to ask firstly, actually, about your name, McAllister. Now, that's a kind of bit of British about that, but certainly at least Scottish about it or possibly Irish as well. Yeah, it is Irish. I don't know why many, many people think it's Scottish. Well, it's muck.

McEverything, isn't it? Yeah, Bono is actually Irish. And a couple of months or weeks ago, I received a letter from my family in Ireland. Asking you to play for them?

No, no, that's too late. That's too late. Yeah, that's too late. But asking me to go there one day. Yeah, I would love to. It feels weird because I'm 25 and it just came now. But hopefully, hopefully one day I can go and meet my family. Talking of family, you have a remarkable football family, don't you? So many members that have gone on to have careers in football. Talk to your family. Who's played? Yeah, for us, football is everything. You have my dad.

play football. - With Diego? - With Diego Maradona, exactly. So very lucky guy. So yeah, my dad and my uncle both play football. Then my two brothers play football. One is playing in Belgium, the other one in Argentina, Francis and Kevin. So there you have four players. Then one of my cousins is playing in Malaysia now.

Luciano and of course granddad's play football as well not professionally but play football so yeah football means everything to us and that's why we play and that's why we really enjoy playing it You've got a Kevin McAllister in the family was it named after the home alone?

I'm sure you've been asked this before. It actually was. Yeah, it actually was. And he didn't know until he was 15 or 16. He was basically doing an interview and they asked him, we're listening to it in the kitchen and he was in the living room doing the interview. So he said, no, I don't really know. I don't think so. And my mom was next to me and she was like, yes, yes.

It's because of the film. So it was quite a funny moment. But yeah, when he was 16, he found out that it was because of the film. There are worse things to find out. Yeah. I think, what was it like growing up as a youngster in Argentina? Well...

I can't complain. I have a family that always gave me everything and I had the possibilities to go to different clubs and play football. With my two brothers, it was always easier because you have them to play football whenever you want. You must have been playing growing up.

every day in the garden dad wasn't happy because we used to break the grass so he wasn't happy but it's part of it and yeah we really enjoyed that period but yeah I always have them and that was the most important thing because we really enjoy playing together yeah I started in Argentino Juniors big club in Argentina where Maradona play players like Riquelme Cambiaso Sorin big big players play there so

we decided to go all of us there I had a moment where I was thinking about moving to Boca Juniors but then it didn't happen we wanted to go to the same club together with my brothers so yeah we played together actually in the first team we had a couple of games together so

So, yeah, Argentina Junior for us is a big, big club that gave us the possibility to grow and play football. So we're really grateful. You mentioned players that have played at Los Argentinos. There was obviously Diego, but you mentioned Riquelme as well. I think he's widely regarded in Argentina as a very special player, wasn't he?

Yeah, for me, he was always my idol. I always said that. He was an amazing player. He used to play as a 10. Then he went to Barcelona, where I think he didn't enjoy much. Well, we had Louis van Gaal, didn't we? We'll jump ahead to the World Cup, just briefly, just for this particular story, because the old Borough, wasn't it, Borough? Yeah.

From Messi towards Louis van Gaal. Is it true that that, because also Messi had a lot of respect for Riquelme and didn't like the way he was treated. Is that generally the case? And that's why he responded to van Gaal. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I couldn't say that. What I know is that Messi and Riquelme have a very good relationship. And of course, Riquelme didn't have a good time with van Gaal. Di Maria neither. Yeah.

So I'm not 100% sure if it was because of that. But that game was a big one because I remember Dibu Martinez as well saying that they spoke a lot before the game. And that's something that in Argentina we don't really like it because, I don't know, it felt like they were not respecting us. So yeah, it was a big game. It was...

a nice one because we won it at the end in penalties it got a bit scary though didn't it yeah two goals right at the end and then the scenes in the dugout and the kind of bit of a fisticuffs it was similar to the final it was similar to the final because we were winning 2-0 without the aggressive nature between the two sides yeah very similar to the final so

So, yeah, 2-0 and then they scored two goals out of nothing, just with two crosses. Well, actually, it was a free kick. Free kick, that's clever free kick. Yeah, it was a nice one. But yeah, after, during the extra time, I think we dominated the game again and won it on penalties, but it was a nice one. It felt nice. It felt like a war on the pitch and as Argentinians, we really like it. Talking about that nature of Argentinian football, what's the biggest difference between playing in Argentina and

and playing in England? I think that... I mean, I went straight from Argentina to Brighton. So for me, it was a huge change. In what way? I think that the most difficult part was the physical side. Here, the intensity is too high. That would surprise people here because I've played against Argentina on two or three occasions and one very famous game. And the one thing I would have said is...

that they're very physical. I mean, obviously, brilliantly talented, but it always felt, you know, I played against Ruggieri and people like that, and Brown, and they were pretty physical, I can assure you. Is that not the case? Yeah, but the thing is, I think in Argentina it's more about the duels. That's where we put the intensity. Oh, okay.

And here is, I don't know, the total distance you make, the highest sprint, those kind of things. I think that's the difference. Then when we go to deals, we go always 100%. We don't care. And you know it. So yeah, in Argentina, it's more about tackles and these kind of things. But here, the physical size. Yes, the running aspects, the speed of the game. Did it take you a while to adapt? Yeah, yeah, it did. I would say...

eight months to a year and when I arrived here I don't know the physical aspect was a big thing for me but I arrived and two or three weeks later COVID started so I didn't have the trainings I needed for

I would say two months because we couldn't train. Was that difficult? Because I imagine, you know, because there's no fans, there's no, people had to be apart and you've just come to a new country. That must have actually been. That was so hard. That was so hard for me. And I was, I was lucky because my mom was in England. So I had my mom and she used to cook and do all the things that at that time I didn't know how to do it. So that was a big thing. And,

But yeah, it was a nice period when we were at home doing nothing, couldn't train. Then the league started again and there were no fans. It didn't feel right, but it is what it is. After that, I think... Do you think that also affected your Argentinian career? Because you played a couple of games, didn't you, when you were very young and then there was COVID and then you didn't get back into the side until...

a year or so before the World Cup. Yeah, it was because of Cody but as well because I couldn't get the game time I wanted here in England. So as I said, it took me like a year to play regularly. Were there times you thought, hmm, not sure I can do it here? There was a time that I was... Or actually, when I started playing, I was about to leave. Basically,

January was coming and you know December and January you have lots of games in the Premier League so we had lots of injuries in Brighton and there was no option so the manager had to say okay Alexis it's your turn Was that Potter at that time? That was Potter yeah so

yeah, I had the possibility to play, play a couple of games, score some goals and I think the manager started, like, had more confidence on me from that time and that was the moment where I started playing and I started practicing

feeling confident that I could do it. I think it's difficult. I've played abroad as well in a couple of places. And I think there's an automatic assumption that football playing, you just carry on the same everywhere you go. But it's not necessarily like that when you move in country to adapt different language. Did you speak English when you first arrived? Nothing at all. Well, I must say, I congratulate you on how you've managed to learn the language really well. And that's important, isn't it? To feel part of...

because you feel a bit like an outsider when you can't understand what anyone else is saying. Yeah. Even on the football pitch. Yeah, it was so difficult. The language was a big thing for me. I did lessons for a year and a half. Back to school? Yes, basically. But it was good. It was good. And it's always nice to communicate and have relationships within the club. So language was a big barrier at the beginning. Then the culture, the weather. The weather? Yeah.

Yeah, it's beautiful. I wouldn't say especially in this time of year from now until about March. So let's say that in Argentina is a bit different in terms of the weather. But yeah, I had to learn a lot of things. As I said, I was young, didn't know how to live on my own. So,

So it was a tough year. But after that, I love the country, the people. And I feel very welcome here in England. That's good to hear. What's Graham Potter like? He's a very good coach. A coach that needs time. Which he didn't get at Chelsea. Yeah, exactly. And which is normal, you know, in the big clubs. You don't have the time you need. It's always like this. And I felt...

really sad for him because I know the coach he is the human being he is even though I didn't play the first year I think he was always there to support me and that was really important so I'm really grateful with him and I think he's a very good coach that hopefully we will see him soon on the

It's a very well-run club, Brighton, isn't it? Was that a good place to start? Definitely. What makes them so different? Because they're punching above their weight, realistically, aren't they, as a football club? They seem to find players like yourself, young players coming through from different parts of the world and then sell them on or...

keep them as part of their team they don't make many mistakes well I think everyone look at the young players the players they sell or these kind of things but what I have to say is that they have a big base in players like Louis Dank these leaders that are so important for the club Danny Welbeck

he's been there for a couple of years and he was amazing with the young players they bring players that they think they are good from the data they work a lot with data yeah I think everyone at the club knows the role and I think as I said I think the base players

that they created in Lewistown. Of course, then you need the managers to play the young players, which is not easy. And they still seem to find the clever upcoming managers as well, don't they? Yeah, exactly. After Porto, they found the Serbi, which... What was he like? Was he quite frantic? He's a crazy guy. Yeah, he's Italian. He's Italian. He's a crazy guy. He's a crazy guy, but I love him. I love him. I think he's the best manager I've ever had.

Really? Yeah. Wow, you've got Klopp and Slott in there. Well, we had a couple of conversations with Slott about the Serbia as well because he really likes the idea. Then I have coaches like Haynes as well in Argentina. So I have

very good coaches and that helped me. What makes the Zerbi so special? I think the passion he gives for football that's special and then his idea his tactical side is amazing and he makes yourself feel good in the team and good motivator yeah

So since the first day I met him, he was amazing with me and that's why I said he was the best coach. When you go back to Brighton, how are the fans with you? Amazing. They're good? Yeah. They appreciate what you did for them? I came back twice with Liverpool and they've always been amazing.

amazing with me they know that the love I have for them and yeah it's a really special place for me and they probably understand if a club like Liverpool comes calling it's tough to turn that down isn't it what was that like when you got I don't know how did it happen did you get a call did your agent get in touch with you did the club say well we've had an offer how did it work

Yeah, it was with my agent first. Of course, as you said, Liverpool is a big club, so it's so hard to say no. But at the same time, there was a release close, so everything was a little bit easier, let's say. I don't think the fans understand that Liverpool comes and is...

It's a big club because it happened with players that went to Chelsea or other clubs and the fans don't like it. I think it's just the way you live, you know. Well, fans never like it when their best players go. You can understand that, can't you? As a footballer, I think. But sometimes players leave in a certain way that makes it uncomfortable for them to go back. But that didn't happen with you.

Yeah, exactly. I think it's the way you live, you know. As I said, there was a release clause and for me it was easier for the club. I always respect them and

And that's the most important thing because I'm really grateful with them and that's why I've done it. But as I say, I have big love for them. I spent three years and a half there, so really grateful for them and I didn't want to live in a bad way. So I think it was the best for everyone. What was it like walking through the doors at Anfield? So special. So special because...

it's a big club and you've been at La Bombonera I was going to ask you actually one of my questions that I got planned in my head was Bombonera or Anfield for atmosphere no come on it's so hard I've been to the Bombonera I went there with Diego Maradona you may have heard of and it was the most unbelievable

atmosphere I mean they nuts man as was Diego he was trying to hang over the balcony it's crazy it's crazy and I think they're different both are amazing I think in Europe Liverpool's fans are the best

And I'm not saying it because I play for Liverpool, I know it's hard to understand it, but I think they are the best or one of the best. But in Argentina, everything is different because in Argentina we are used to sing songs like the whole game. So it creates something different, whether here I think it's more a reactive thing from the fans

When you're going well, they start getting there. Or sometimes when you're struggling, they get it going. Yeah, exactly. It depends what is happening during the game. And in Argentina, it's different. Yeah, it's so hard. Because at the same time, I support Boca Juniors since I was a kid. That's your team, is it? Yeah, it's my team, yeah.

Those nights under the lights at Anfield, particularly perhaps in a second leg of how it used to be, well, it will be in the knockout stages of a Champions League game, even if it's just a Premier League game. But that thing when you walk out, the lights are on, you never walk alone. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to a second leg of Anfield.

of Champions League. You've not had that? Never. Given how you started in the Champions League, I think you might get one. Hopefully, yeah. But yeah, under the light, I don't know if it's magic the other day against Real Madrid or when you have big games, you could hit them and they are really behind us. I think they know that we need them and that's so important to create that connection between fans and the team. So,

yeah I really love them and really looking forward for that second leg in the Champions League hopefully I'm sure you will it'd be amazing you started under Jurgen Klopp now you've got Arne Schlott firstly Jurgen Klopp I mean we all see him he's got that incredible enthusiasm as well a little bit like Deserby but

and did an amazing job there over a long period of time. What was he like to play for? He was amazing from the first day, or actually before I signed for Liverpool. I had a call with him, and I don't know, since that moment, I could feel that we're going to do great things. And I really enjoyed my time with him. Did he try and sell the club to you? Did he sell himself to you? He didn't need to.

Well, I know. I suppose you'd heard of him. But yeah, I just want to know what he said to you really to entice you to... He probably didn't need to say much. But you probably wanted assurances that you were going to play or... No, basically he said that there was going to be a change in terms of midfielders for the team. He wanted me to be part of it and he compared me with players like Gundogan, for example, that he managed...

in Dortmund he said that we had similar things and that I could be an important player for Liverpool and for his team so that was enough to say I need to go there because you know I was in a moment where I won the World Cup just six months ago I wanted to go to a club that I had the opportunity to win trophies and I wanted to go to a club where I could feel important you know where I could feel that I

I could have a history there. Yeah, that was enough. That was enough to tell myself that I wanted to play for Liverpool. As a coach and as a person, what was it like to play for? Demanding or? Yeah, very demanding. As a human being, he's amazing. And I think it's hard when

when you are a coach or when you are a player to see that part. But I think when you are a good human being, then everything is easier. And he was very honest. Every time he needed to say the truth, he said it. So that's a really important thing for me. And he was always there for me to support me because I remember at the beginning, we didn't have a six. So I had to start the season with playing as a six. Where do you like to play? What's your favorite? It's hard for me to say it, but I like to be in the middle.

if I'm in contact with the ball, then I'm happy. So yeah, I started as a six last season and people used to complain or criticise a little bit and he was always there to support me and defend me. So that was the most important thing for me. What was it like the morning or afternoon, whenever it was, that you got the news that Jürgen Klopp was going to walk away at the end of the season? It was crazy because... Because you'd not been there that long?

No, and it was crazy because we didn't know anything. There was a day where we went to training. Normally the report used to be 10.30, 10.45. And when I was on my way to a training ground, we received a message that we had a meeting 10.30. So it was quite weird. When I got to the training ground, I'm next to Salah in the dressing room. So I asked him what's going on. And he said the manager is leaving. Really?

You got the news from Mo Salah? From Mo Salah, yeah. And it was a surprise. First assist he's done for you, probably. Probably not the first. But it was a surprise because no one expected it. I think at that time we were first or second in the league. So it was a good moment. So there was no reason to leave. But yeah, we had a meeting. Basically, he explained or he said that he was leaving and we just had to accept it. What was the mood like? I think everyone was in shock because no one expected it.

That was the main thing. Why is he leaving? But we understand that it was his decision. We really respected it and he earned the right to do whatever he wanted. We understood straight away that we had to finish the season in a good way. Do you think it affected you though? Because you kind of went off the ball towards the end but you did have injuries in the team. I don't think it affected us. Maybe that could be the excuse and we could blame him but I don't think that affected us. We just...

ran out of energy at the end and when you compete against teams like Arsenal and City you had to be at your best so no I don't think Jürgen's departure affected us but of course it was a surprise for everyone. Okay let's take a little break and when we come back I want to talk about the new Liverpool under Arne Slott and of course Argentina. Before I got a present for you as you know in Argentina we drink

Mate. A lot of mate. Tea, yes. So basically... Is this mate for me? No, but this is made with sherba mate, with herbs. So yeah, it's a present for you. I hope you like it and no problem. There you go. The man with the golden boot and a silver mic. What an honour. We're up against it here because I know you normally prefer bags of crisps to cans of drinks. They go well together.

I fancy our chances though so if you don't like Haas I'll play Liverpool's next match in my underwear never make promises like that thank you

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Welcome back to The Rest Is Football with Alexis McAllister and me, Gary Lineker. I must say I've enjoyed my drink of hearth and now we start with the second hearth. Alexis, you've got a new manager. Um, pfft.

Arne Schlott, what a start he's made. Because it must have been incredibly difficult filling the boots of Jurgen Klopp because he's been so dominant at the football club and so impactful at the football club and so successful at the football club that to follow in his footsteps. But boy, what a start. Yeah, I think everyone thought that it was going to be difficult, but not Arne. Not Arne. I think since the first day, he was really clear with the things he wanted on and off the pitch. Did he make an impact immediately?

Yeah, I was saying immediately. I mean, I was in pre-season because of course I had international break after the season. So we had a couple of days. But when I arrived to America, I could hear the boys and they were so happy with Arne. They said he was quite different, especially in possession. Tell us how, I mean, we've had our opinions on this podcast with Alan and Micah.

that he seems to slow things down. No, definitely. It's a mix of the old and certainly something of the new and kind of rotating in midfield and there seems to be a bit more patience and a slightly more thoughtful defensively. Would that be right? Tell us what you think. Yeah, I think the main thing is in possession we are more patient. Defensively, I would say it's similar to what we used to do with Jurgen.

It depends on the other team as well. So we change a lot the pressing in terms of the other team. But I think the main thing is in possession where we are more patient. We have different patterns and different movements to understand where the spaces are and try to exploit them. And I think we are still getting into the idea. Do you think it's more of a perhaps

tactical coach than Klopp because Klopp was about passion wasn't he high energy Gagan press yeah for sure for sure that's the main difference the tactical side as I said I think it's about finding the free man or the space and try to attack it and be more patient when you have the ball does it suit you yeah yeah for sure I would say so

And yeah, for me, it's different as well because it's a different position. We spoke before that last season I played as a six and now it's more double six or sometimes I could even play as an eight or ten, whatever you want to call it. Have you always had that ability to be versatile within that midfield role?

Have you learned it? No, I learned. I learned. I started playing as a 10 in Argentina. Normally the system is 4-2-3-1. So I used to play behind the 9 and used to be more an attacker. It changed when I arrived to Brighton. And since that moment, I think I learned and understood the game a little bit more. And that's what I try every single day. Try to understand positions or

the spaces I need to attack on this kind of thing so yeah it's something that I learned and I think it's really important to a player I spoke to Rodri last week who's also on the podcast and he was saying similar things that you know he thinks about his position a lot he talks about

playing the position a lot and also he watches all the games back do you watch your games? Not really not really I used to do it but now that we have a lot of games sometimes you need the time to relax as well but no I don't really watch the games back I don't think it's necessary because at the club we have everything and normally the day after or two days after we watch some of the things that we need to improve so

if I have time I do it but not very often Are you surprised of how well Liverpool have started given the fact that they had a new man in charge even though that you could immediately tell that he knew what he was doing Yeah for sure for sure and I said it the other day like I didn't expect us to be in

the place we are now because I think we are in a transition as we spoke before from Jurgen to Arne new ideas different things but I think the team got it quite quickly and we really like the idea so we enjoy playing this football and I think that's why we are in the place we are You mentioned that sometimes you play as two number sixes and as an eight and you kind of switch around it's mainly been Gravenberg yourself and Curtis Jones hasn't it?

How does that work? That new midfield, if you like, how have you felt in it? Does it feel comfortable now? Yeah, for me, it feels very good. And I think for the other guys as well. But yeah, we have the freedom to do whatever we want. Sometimes, because sometimes it's about staying in your place as well. And as I said before, spaces and these kind of things. But at the same time, we have the freedom to do whatever we want. And when you have players like Ryan, Curtis, Dom...

Endo, Harvey, we have a lot of good midfielders. You have to give them that freedom. So it feels really, really good because you can have that connection and those little passes between us. And yeah, we really like it.

I always think midfielders, it's very important for them to have a leader behind them. And in Virgil van Dijk, how much of a leader is he? Is he vocal on the pitch? Yeah, he speaks a lot. He speaks a lot. But that's good. That's good. Because you need players like that. And he leads by the example. He's one of the leaders with more...

with Robbo, Alisson. We have experienced players that really help us to be better players. And then they are so important because, for example, the game against Southampton, it wasn't a good game from us. We were struggling a little bit, losing 2-1. And that's the moment when you need players to step up. And that was the meeting at halftime where the manager said, now I want to see the players to step up. And that was Virgil and

Salah played an amazing second half and that's why they are good people they help you if you need and then on the pitch they do they do the work you knew I was going to ask you about Mo Salah incredible player he's done it for so long he's so consistent even on the days where it's perhaps not working for him he'll end up with a goal from somewhere or even an assist what's he like I mean you sit right next to him you said in the

the dressing room. We all know what he's like as a player. What's he like as a person? Yeah, first thing, consistency is key. He showed it. He's amazing and when you have him, you know that he's going to deliver and get the goals and assists that you need. So that's why he's so important. And then off the pitch, he demands a lot from him and from his teammates. So since I arrived to Liverpool, I think I changed a

a little bit my routine before I didn't used to go to the gym as much as now and that's because of him really yeah so is that because you were changing next to him and he had better abs than you or was it more for your football yeah

that's one thing but the other thing is that he tells you that you need to be professional you need to go to a gym or do this kind of thing so yeah it's a pleasure to work with him and I think he really helps the players around I don't know actually for no particular reason other than he's one of my favourite footballers Trent Alexander-Arnold because technically and passer of the ball I think he's extraordinary yeah I think everyone can see the quality like

Like, he's amazing on the ball. I know there was a lot of talking about his defensive side, but I think he's amazing as well. He's a defender. I think he's an amazing player. There's a reason I asked you a little bit about those three. Trent Alexander-Arnold, Mo Salah, Virgil van Dijk. They're all obviously out of contract at the end of the season. Is that something that players talk about in the dressing room? Because, you know, you'd want them to stay, wouldn't you? Yeah, of course, there is a lot of

jokes let's say but at the end it's a personal thing and we are going to respect the club and him and them in whatever decision they make of course we want them to stay with us but as I say it's a personal decision and

I would never get there. Do you think you can go on to win the league this season? It's too early, it's probably, but it's great to have a lead, isn't it? Yeah, it is early, but we have a nice difference now. So, yeah, it is possible, of course. And we are there, we are candidates, let's say. But we need to keep going because it's too early. There's many, many games to come. We have Champions League as well. So, yeah, we need to keep working, keep getting into the idea, into everything.

Arne's idea because I think we have a lot of things to improve but we are in a good way. The World Cup. If there is someone that knows about World Cup it's you. I don't know what it's like to win one though Alexis could you please tell me?

I don't know. I mean, it's magical. It's so special. Like, I think we are still realizing what it means because it's something that is not easy and it's crazy. I don't know. The most important thing for me was when we went back to Argentina and you could see people's faces. That was so, so special for us. Millions of people there.

on the street. There was 5 million people in the streets and we went with the bus and people used to run next to the bus for kilometers. So you could see people crying, smiling, saying a lot of things. So that was the most special moment in my football career for sure. And also I think it added to it because I think

Apart from obviously France fans and perhaps some Ronaldo supporters, I think the rest of the world really wanted Argentina to win it because of Messi. Did it feel like that for the players? Did it feel like you wanted, not just for yourselves, but for him? Because it was the one thing that was perhaps missing. Yeah, for sure. I think everyone that shared dressing room with Lionel wanted him to win this World Cup. It was a special occasion and he's the best footballer ever.

I don't disagree. I mean, I saw that obviously played against Diego a few times. I never thought I'd ever say that there was a better player than Diego Maradona. But I think ability-wise, almost the same. Amazingly similar. But...

You have to give it to the longevity and you have to say that, you know, Diego had his issues, which affected his career, whereas Messi's not. But we all know how great he was as a player. And you agree with me that he's the best of all time. But his leadership perhaps surprised a few people. We've all seen the interview perhaps before the Copa America game in Brazil. And I assume it was probably a similar thing in the World Cup.

He really came out, didn't he, as a leader? Yeah, I think he received a lot of criticism from fans in Argentina. How tough was that for him, do you think? I think it was tough. I think he never shows it, but it was tough because he gave everything for the national team. He gave everything for his country. He got to finals that he couldn't win.

And when you are the best player, of course, you get the criticism. But he was always there. He kept going, kept going, kept going. And at the end, he got the World Cup. But in terms of leadership, I think he improved it a lot. Like he grew into that. And he's an amazing leader for us. He doesn't speak much, but he speaks when we really need him. So, for example, before we go into the pitch, he always speaks and says...

the things that he thinks or that he wants. And that's really special for us. But as I said, his leadership is amazing. And it's not just by word, but it's more by example. Didn't start well either, did it? Saudi Arabia. No, it didn't start well. That must have been a bit of a shock. Yeah, it was. But we always believed in ourselves.

To be fair, we had like five or ten minutes after the game where everyone was really sad and no one could speak. But after five or ten minutes, our leaders, Leo, Otamendi, these kind of players, spoke and said the truth. It was up to us, still up to us.

It wasn't easy, but then at the end, we got the win against Mexico. And from that on, everything was much easier. That was that moment with obviously Di Maria and Messi. And it was a special moment, wasn't it? It was like Argentina's World Cup had started. Yeah, and I think that game, the first half, you could feel the nervousness from the fans or even for us. It wasn't easy. We were nervous in the studio and I was watching them.

We were watching that game. We were there. Obviously, like most of the world, I wanted Argentina to win it for Messi if it couldn't be England, of course, obviously, which it was. Sadly, it wasn't either. But let me take you forward to the final because describe what happened on that day. What's it like on the day? Can you remember it? Do you remember what you were like before the game? Were you nervous? Were you excited? Yeah. During the World Cup, something crazy because I normally get really nervous before the games. But during the World Cup, it didn't happen.

I don't know why. I don't know why. Not even before the final. So basically when we are with the national team, we have a lot of time off. Like we can do whatever we want. And I remember that night I slept like 10 hours. And then after... But you didn't sleep 10 hours after the game. No. No.

No, for sure not. But yeah, 10 hours during the night. Then we had lunch. Siesta. And siesta for two hours and a half.

I couldn't believe that because, you know, you get nervous, work a final, biggest stage. And I had, I don't know how, but I slept two hours and a half before that. And I went into the game, I think it was because I really trusted my team and my teammates to do well. And yeah, it was an amazing final for neutrals. And you played a significant part.

Yeah, I think everyone, everyone plays a part. But that goal in particular there, what a move, what a beautiful bit of football that was. It was nice. I think it was the best goal of the World Cup because of the way I think everyone played one touch. Amazing counter-attack. So,

And after Di Maria, of course, made an amazing goal. But I felt really good. I felt really good. When people ask me what was the best game I've ever played, I always say the final because I felt really good and I felt important for the team as well. You said you felt really good. You're playing in a game, you're dominating it. France can't get a kick. They're just not in it. And then suddenly from 2-0, you're 2-2. I mean, you couldn't have felt that good then. That must have been like, what on earth is happening here?

For sure, it wasn't easy. When they scored the 2-1, I don't know, I was still confident in myself. But then after the equaliser, it was so hard. It was so hard. I think everyone got nervous at that time. It wasn't easy. But then again, like against Holland, we went to extra time. We showed again what we could do. And then it happened again. And then it happened again.

So it was a crazy game, I think, for neutrals, as you say. It was the most extraordinary match. I think the most memorable in my lifetime. I probably played in the second most memorable match of all time, which was Mexico 86, the quarterfinal, because of Diego's two goals. One with the hand and obviously one...

the best goal probably ever scored. But to live that, to be part of the team, to go through that emotional rollercoaster, then the penalty shootout. I always thought you'd win a penalty shootout because of your goalkeeper. Because of Martinez. What a goalkeeper. He's amazing. Yeah. Do you think he's one of the best today? Absolutely. Did you see the save he made last night?

a week or so ago with Preston Villove against Juventus. Yeah. He was amazing. I think he's one of the best. Yeah. He strikes me as quite a personality. You know, he's the master of shit. Yeah.

But I think you need one of these guys in your team. You need to win, no? It's one of them that when they are in the other team, you hate him. But when you have him in your team, then he's one of the best. So, really happy for him because he worked really hard.

he struggled a little bit to play football then he had the possibility to play for Arsenal and since that moment he showed what he's capable of so really happy for him because he's a nice guy as well how was the penalty shootout? yes! yes! yes!

It could have gone better. To be fair, I suffered more the penalty shootout against Holland than this one because I think they missed the second and the third. It's looking good. You could feel that we were going to become champions. It wasn't that bad. Final whistle goes, the end of the penalty shootout. The penalty is scored. Can you remember how you felt? Do you remember the emotion? I was in shock.

I was in shock. I didn't know what to do. I remember the first thing I did, it was to look at behind the bench because my family was there. That must have been beautiful. That was so special. My family and some friends, they left everything to go there for the final. I thought you were going to say they left with five minutes to go. No, no, no. Imagine that.

I don't think you could from that game. So, yeah, it was so special to have them in the stands and to watch that game. So, yeah, just looked at them, walk, say thank you to their referees. I don't know why. I don't know why. Because you're in England a while now and that's what these gentlemen do. No, but I didn't know what to do, to be fair. Yeah.

It didn't feel real, you know? Real, yeah. So, yeah, so, so special. The coach had done an amazing job, hadn't he? Picking up the side from, you know, they're really in trouble. What was he like to play for? He's an amazing human being and everything is easier when it's like this. He got the team in a really difficult moment for the country and for the national team after Russia. And since that moment, I think he understood what Messi needed. What did he need? He needed a good defense, people who...

could run and do the dirty job for him and then pass the ball to him and play for him basically but it's not easy because at the end I think every manager that it was before Scaloni tried that as well but but it's hard winning major tournaments yeah it's hard it's so hard and what's it like

playing on the same team as Lionel Messi? At the beginning it wasn't easy because you know you get nervous you get a bit self-conscious because I know me with my first touch I'd have been like oh god this is so embarrassing he's I mean he's so good was there a degree of that? Yeah for sure for sure that was the first phase let's say and

and it wasn't easy. But then when you meet the guy and you speak with him, then you realize that he's just a human being, that he's an amazing guy and you just need to understand him on the pitch and everything is easier. I have a really good connection with him on the pitch and I think that's really, really important because I play

and I move when I see what he does so I react to his movement and that's even before he's got the ball or when he's got the ball no even before I try to be in different spaces not into his space because at the end he's always had like two or three guys on him there is a part of the pitch that is free if there is two or three with him so

I think it's about understanding those kind of things and that give the ball to him and he will do what he wants and what he knows. And sometimes and even during that World Cup many occasions you must look at him and go wow

Wow. How does he do that? Even in training. I woke up, it was of course fantastic. But even in training, if you can give him whatever pass you want, his first touch will be amazing. That's the start. And then, as I said, you make a movement and he will see it. The pass he gave to Molina against Netherlands. Oh, wow.

How does he suggest him? Do you know what I was thinking? I don't know. I'm sorry to interrupt, but when I watch Messi, he sees things that you can't see from the stand. And it's almost like he's playing the game as an out-of-body experience where he's looking at himself from above and has a whole view of the field. I mean, how does he see those things? Do you ever go to him? How do you see that pass? No.

No, I know. Because that's what people forget sometimes, isn't it? We're obsessed with stats now. It's goals and assists, but it's not that, is it? It's not that. It's the little things he does on the halfway line when there's four players around him and you go, oh, he's done. And then he finds his way out. I think footballers look perhaps for more of that than perhaps fans do. I don't know. What do you think? I think he's got a...

a god apart, like he can do whatever he wants and everything looks easy for him. The difficult part is to understand that you are not at the same level as him because that's the truth. If you understand that and you play for him, then everything is easier and I really enjoy playing with him. That's the only thing I can say and I'm really lucky, really lucky and everyone on the national team is really lucky to play with him because there won't be anyone like him. No.

I agree. When you won the World Cup, were you more pleased for Messi than yourself? I hope not. No. Good. Sorry about that. No, it's the right answer. Sorry about that. No, it's the right answer. I thought I'd ask the question because the reaction of the team towards him and everything. I mean, everyone was pleased. I think the easy answer would be yes. But it is what I dreamed since I was a kid. I won a World Cup. We won a World Cup. And it felt amazing. But...

First, because of me, because of the work that I've done for so many years, because of the work that my family has done for me. But yeah, of course, I was happy for him as well. What a way to finish. We won a World Cup. I envy you. And I also want to say a big thank you for this interview. It's been fascinating, Alexis. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure.