cover of episode Michael Meade - How To "Man Down": The Importance Of Myth And Descent For Men

Michael Meade - How To "Man Down": The Importance Of Myth And Descent For Men

2024/11/18
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Michael Meade: 在男性的心理和精神发展中,“下降”(descent)是一个关键过程,它与传统的成年礼仪式密切相关。成年礼通常包含三个阶段:分离、临界期和回归。下降是临界期的一部分,通过下降,男性可以连接到更深层次的自我,即灵魂。灵魂与水和大地相连,与精神(spirit)相对,精神则像空气一样上升。现代文化崇尚向上发展,忽略了下降在人格完善中的作用,导致许多男性缺乏灵魂的滋养。 在没有正式成年礼的现代社会中,下降通常以非正式的方式出现,例如学业失败、犯罪、失恋等。这些经历虽然痛苦,但却可以引导男性认识到自身局限,并促使他们走向更深层次的自我探索。成熟的男性会反复经历下降,并最终学会主动“下降”,而非被动地跌落。 现代科技作为精神科技的替代品,分散了人们的注意力,阻碍了灵魂的成长。它无法提供真正的连接和智慧,反而加剧了人们的焦虑和迷茫。 健康的成年礼仪式会引导人们认识到下降中的价值,并帮助他们从失败、损失和死亡的体验中获得更深层次的理解和成长。 “下降”的初期表现包括感觉一切出错、责备他人以及自我厌恶。缺乏导师和长者的引导会加剧负面情绪。 现代社会快速变化和潜在的末日感加剧了年轻人的迷茫和焦虑。年轻人比以往更加依赖自身,缺乏家庭和社区的支持,以及有意义的仪式。 传统的成年礼仪式旨在唤醒年轻人内在的智慧,并使长者保持活力。现代人缺乏对自身内在天才和人生目标的认知。 现代社会普遍存在的焦虑和末日感源于旧世界观的崩塌和集体成年礼的进行。现代社会正处于集体成年礼的中间阶段——临界期,人们对未来感到迷茫。世界并非真正终结,而是经历着周期性的崩塌与更新。“启示录”并非指世界的彻底毁灭,而是指崩塌与更新的循环过程。 真正的长者是那些经历过失败和痛苦,并从中获得智慧和同情心的人。现代社会需要更多人觉醒自身的天赋,才能解决世界问题。 人工智能是远离自我的体现,缺乏心理和神话的智慧。人工智能只停留在字面和逻辑层面,缺乏心理和神话的深度。人类需要与“另一个世界”连接,才能获得应对现实问题的智慧和疗愈。真正的社群建立在灵魂的连接之上,而非简单的物理空间或网络联系。人工智能会干扰人们的自然想象力,并以肤浅的智能取代真正的活力。 “下降”最终引导人们发现自身的深层自我,并找到人生的意义和使命。水象征着创造的起源和重生,代表着洗涤和更新。男性需要重新学习哭泣,以表达悲伤和痛苦,并提升灵魂的感知。一个成熟的男性应该能够在生活中表达悲伤和痛苦,并以诗歌或歌曲来表达内心的情感。 Connor Beaton: 现代男性缺乏成年礼,导致他们通过“触底”来经历非受控的“下降”。未来几年,能够承受未知的人将更有可能应对挑战。对世界末日的恐惧并非基于悲观主义,而是对旧世界观崩塌的回应。神话故事提供了理解人生经验的框架和动力。世界并非真正终结,而是经历着周期性的崩塌与更新。人类正处于生命形态转变的中间阶段,充满着可能性。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

What is the role of descent in a man’s psychological and spiritual development?

Descent is a key part of a man's development, traditionally experienced through rites of passage. It involves separation from the known, connecting with the soul, and recognizing the presence of the feminine within. This process helps a man become more rounded, compassionate, and self-aware, but modern culture often lacks these formal rituals, leading to informal and often destructive descents through bottoming out or addiction.

Why is modern technology a distraction from the natural process of descent?

Modern technology serves as a distraction from the deeper psychological and spiritual growth that occurs through descent. It substitutes for the 'technology of the sacred' found in traditional cultures, leading to a focus on external achievements rather than internal reflection. This externalization can prevent individuals from finding the inner depth and wisdom necessary for personal and collective renewal.

What are the signs that a man is going through a descent?

Signs of a man's descent include feeling that everything is wrong, blaming others, experiencing deep self-loathing, and feeling isolated. These feelings can lead to depression or repeated negative patterns if not guided properly. Traditional cultures would recognize these signs and provide support and rituals to help individuals navigate this process.

Why has the old worldview collapsed, and what is the result of this collapse?

The old worldview has collapsed due to the rapid changes in the modern world, which institutions and traditional structures can't keep up with. This collapse has led to collective despair and a sense of aimlessness. The modern existential view that the world is accidental and meaningless contributes to this despair, but mythology suggests that the world undergoes cycles of collapse and renewal, offering hope and deeper meaning.

What does the descent lead to, and what can someone expect to find?

Descent leads to a deeper connection with one's inner self or soul, bringing insights and understanding of one's unique character and purpose. It often involves encountering intense emotions like rage and fear, but these can transform into a more balanced and compassionate psyche. The descent is a necessary step for personal growth and resilience, akin to the alchemical process of tempering a sword.

What is the significance of water in the process of descent?

Water symbolizes rebirth and the washing away of the old self to allow for a new, more tempered and flexible identity. In traditional practices, immersion in water was used to cleanse and renew both individuals and communities. For men, water represents the need to connect with and understand their emotions, leading to empathy, compassion, and a more integrated sense of self.

What are some practical ways for a man to find and connect with the 'water' of life?

Practical ways to connect with the 'water' of life include jumping into natural bodies of water, engaging with poetry or laments, and trusting and following one's feelings. These practices can help a man reawaken his soul, feel sorrow, and gain a deeper understanding of his inner emotional landscape, leading to greater empathy and connectedness.

Shownotes Transcript

Talking points: masculinity, psychology, myth, Jung

Hot on the heels of the legendary John Lee, I interviewed another founding elder of men's work: Michael Meade. This is a powerful discussion focused on how essential "descent" is for men, and how it's almost completely disappeared from society in favor of endless, destructive growth and commodified "mastery". Powerful words from one of the wisest teachers out there, in my opinion.

(00:00:00) - The importance of descent in a man’s life

(00:11:51) - The signs of descent, and the role of technology

(00:22:28) - How the old worldview has collapsed, and the result is collective despair and grief

(00:29:39) - How do you deal with the feeling that things are ending?

(00:35:20) - The intersection of myth and AI; will they come together? 

(00:41:29) - Where does the descent actually lead, and the symbolism of water and sword

(00:55:13) - How to “get the water”

Michael Meade, born and raised in New York City, is a renowned storyteller, author, and scholar of mythology, anthropology, and psychology. He combines hypnotic and fiery storytelling, street-savvy perceptiveness, and spellbinding interpretations of ancient myths with a deep knowledge of cross-cultural rituals. His ability to tap into ancestral sources of wisdom to help people of today heal their communities has inspired thousands of people throughout the world. His unique translations of age-old myths and symbols into culturally relevant, everyday language earned him an honorary Doctorate in Humane Letters from Pacifica Graduate Institute. Michael is also the founder of Mosaic Multicultural Foundation and author of The Genius Myth, The Water of Life, The World Behind the World, Fate and Destiny, and Why the World Doesn't End. He is co-editor of The Rag and Bone Shop of the Heart, and editor of the cross-cultural anthology on rites of passage:* Crossroads: A Quest for Contemporary Rites of Passage*.

Connect with Michael:

-Podcast: Living Myth: https://www.mosaicvoices.org/podcast)

-Website: https://www.mosaicvoices.org/)


Pick up my book, Men's Work: A Practical Guide To Face Your Darkness, End Self-Sabotage, And Find Freedom: https://mantalks.com/mens-work-book/)

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