Fighting PBM abuses is hard, but necessary if independent community pharmacy is to succeed. In this podcast two articulate and experienced leaders share insights on how pharmacy owners, and industry leaders, can be more successful in their advocacy efforts. Going to association sponsored Hill Days is one great way to start but, according to these two experts, it takes more than that. What, why and how is discussed in a simple and straight forward manner. The good news, donations are not essential but getting to know your elected officials, and their staff members as people, seems to be the key to success. Reeves and Phipps say we need many more owners to get involved if we are to win this fight.