IFH 790: From Short to Feature: The Filmmaker’s Journey with Michael G. Kehoe
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You are listening to the IFH Podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork.com. Welcome to the Indie Film Hustle Podcast, episode number 790. Cinema should make you forget you're sitting in a theater. Roman Polanski.

Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood, it's the Indie Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of the film biz. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Hustle Podcast. I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of the Filmtrepreneur, how to turn your independent film into a profitable business.

It's harder today than ever before for independent filmmakers to make money with their films. From predatory film distributors ripping them off to huckster film aggregators who prey upon them, the odds are stacked against the indie filmmaker. The old distribution model of making money with your film is broken and there needs to be a change.

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If you want to order it, just head over to www.FilmBizBook.com. That's FilmBizBook.com. Enjoy today's episode with guest host, Dave Bullis.

You know, me and my guest today, we go over all of this stuff, whether it be networking and professionalism, and we also go over one of my favorite topics, creativity. This guest is also going to be at GeekFest Film Fest 4. It's funny because Bill Ostroff, who was on the podcast only a few episodes ago, actually runs...

Geek Fest Film Fest 4. That's very hard to say, by the way. I keep saying it. I think I'm going to mess it up. But all kidding aside, Bill actually runs this competition and he runs the Film Fest as well. And Bill, obviously from First Glance Films, he was on the podcast only a few episodes ago and we talked all about everything. And it's funny because this guest this week actually won the First Glance Film Festival with his short, Hush.

And now he's going to be on this film panel. So when you hear this podcast, which is going up on February 12, 2017, next week, next Saturday, he'll actually be at this panel. He'll be discussing indie film financing. He'll be discussing how you have to use creativity to make your film. And he is just a wealth of information as you're about to hear. He also was able to turn a short film, Hush, into a feature-length film.

which is going to be called The Hatred or Alice the Hatred as the poster says right now. And he even got the producers of the Halloween franchise on board with it, which is unbelievable. So we're going to talk about all of his journey. We're going to talk about all of these wonderful, wonderful things, about hustling, about all these things with guest Michael G. Kehoe.

So, Mike, you grew up in Ithaca, and then obviously you now live in Los Angeles. So what was the journey that took you from Ithaca out to Los Angeles?

Well, I was actually born and raised in Brooklyn, New York, and my mother was a theater director in the local theater there. And I watched her work, and as she was involved, deeply involved in the theater there for the community, I went as a little kid, eight years old, watched her at the theater, and directing actors and setting the plays up and the sets.

And then when we moved up to Ithaca, I knew that this is what I wanted to do. So I started pursuing that. I played sports, so I wasn't one of these guys that was ostracized because he was either a nerd or a jock or a freak. I also played guitar, so I was in a band. And I got in the drama program. And while I was in the drama program, I knew that there was a path some way

to get into the film industry. I didn't know what a producer was. I only knew that I had to go out and at some point go to California, go to Los Angeles and make movies. And what inspired, what really lit the fire was I directed and played McMurphy in a stage production of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest that myself and a couple of friends presented to the Sports Booster Club

to raise money for them. And not knowing what a producer does, I built the, uh, the set. And then I got all of the, um, the football players to play the crazies in the, in the play. And that brought in so many people to see their sons, you know, coming, coming in this football star playing in this play. And, uh, it was a sold out weekend for three weekends, uh,

You know, the first time that that's ever happened in this small town of Trimminsburg, New York. And that lit the fire. And I went on to go to the American Academy of Dramatic Arts in New York and then came home and decided this was it. I had to take the shot and go to California. So now before you moved out to California and L.A. specifically, when you before you moved out there, did you actually, you know, have like a place to stay and have a job already lined up?

No, I had nothing. In fact, I came out with three other guys from school.

We had made a plan to get out here. And I had already been bartending. So I knew that I could probably get a job once I got out here. And in New York at the time, you could start bartending at 18. In California, it was 21. And I was 21 at that time. So when I applied for a job, they said, how many years experience? And I told them I'd been doing this since 18. They said, well, that's not. I said, well, that's the way it is in New York. So I landed a job.

And it was at this little place in Studio City called Stevie G's. And ironically, while I was there, there was a friend of mine that I went to school with. His name was Jimmy Hayden.

And Jimmy Hayden was an actor. And I had another friend named Michael Kukul. And we were very good friends. And I was bartending in Manhattan at a place called Eileen's. And one night when we had closed up, the three of us made a pact and said, when one of us gets in there, we're going to pull the other two in. So I had left, closed up shop, so to speak, with my life in New York and moved to California. And then I spoke to Jimmy on the phone about a year or so later.

And Jimmy had told me that Michael Kukul had died. And he was depressed, and it was a long story for that. And then Jimmy had said to me, listen, things are going well for me. I did a movie with Robert De Niro called Once Upon a Time in America, and I'm going to be on Broadway with Al Pacino in a play called American Buffalo.

And I said, I got to see you. He says, well, we're going to be in San Francisco. So you got to come. We'll go out to dinner. I said, great. Well, about two months later, Jimmy was dead of a heroin overdose because the character Bobby in the play was an addict. And I'm not quite sure exactly how all of this had happened or how it went down, but Jimmy was not really a drug addict, you know, and he was an incredible actor at the time. In fact,

Mickey Rourke dedicated his performance in Popa Greenwich Village to Jimmy Aiden. So that relationship between myself and those two young actors really set an idea up for me that I had had about creating a film. And I made my first short film called Second Dance. And it was...

It was basically about myself and my relationship with two guys. And I was depressed when I came out here, not working, not knowing what was going on. And I ended up writing that short film that was about a guy that was at the end of his rope. And two of his friends come back as angels to visit him. And he's about to commit suicide and they convince him it's not the thing to do. Well, that went on to take its journey and ended up at Sundance.

You know, that's absolutely incredible. You know, just to take a step back for a second, you know, when you said you had that pact with friends, you know, if one person makes it, you know, the other, the other, the person that makes is going to help the other ones up. You know, that's, that's actually something that, you know, I've heard of before too, where, you know, friends or even if they went to the same college or grew up in the same neighborhood and, you know, they sort of say, listen, if, you know, one of us makes it,

We're going to do our best to help the others, whether that be through contacts or introductions or what have you. And we're also going to tell you what is actually on the front line of things. I had a friend of mine who was a screenwriter and he made it. And he always was telling his friends, this is how your script's got to look. This is what it's got to be because you've got to get one shot with this through an introduction. And you have to make it as good as possible.

Yeah. You know, to me, what has to happen in your life is whatever relationships that you have and whatever bond you have, you know, it's very important to continue that. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

especially if it's going to be in a certain business, whether you're in a travel business, whether you're in the restaurant business or anything like that. Your friends can actually help you. They can actually hurt you as well, depending on how your friends are with you and how that bond is. And I think that having that support sometimes of a creative friend that's along with you can elevate your career as well as their own. And I truly believe that giving back

you know, is also part of it. And, um, I, you know, I cherish the relationship that I had, uh,

But it was short-lived because it was only a couple of years in New York. And then when we came out, I didn't get to see them. And when I heard about what had happened, it was devastating, knowing that we had this plan to go out and do it. But you can't give up, and they wouldn't want you to give up. So I just continued the journey.

So, I mean, and again, you know, when you were talking about how both of your friends had passed, you know, and the one had died from a heroin overdose. I mean, that is just unbelievably out of left field because like you just said, you know, he wasn't, you know, into that.

or never had been a known drug addict or anything like that. And that's just one of those things that I left field. And it just reminds me of a few things that have happened to other guests as well, where something, a friend of theirs has just died and it's just been clear out of the blue. Like you see him one day and it's almost like they're gone the next. Yeah.

Yeah, you know, look, I guess, you know, the 70s and 80s were really a time when people were exploring and testing things out in their lives. And since this character, I can't speculate. I can only try to put things together in a sense where possibly this happened, but I don't want to, you know, say for sure, but

When you play a character that's a heroin addict, most actors won't do the heroin. Some people may just test it out and it becomes their demise. Jimmy was a great guy. He was a very talented actor.

And I don't know how it went down or who he was with or the crowd. There's articles about it and people wrote things about who he was with and how it was influenced. But I think what you have to celebrate is their lives and the work that they did, which was far more important than that downward spiral that caused it. And Jimmy's work speaks for itself. It was a remarkable career.

you know, short lived much like James Dean, you know, and in fact, in fact, they compared him to James Dean during that time. So, um, you know, it, uh, because of that relationship, it inspired me to do that film that really opened the door for me and go and, and, and move on. So I believe that they were, you know, they're a part of it.

Yeah, and you used this as inspiration to write and direct, and you were actually able to produce Second Dance, which was a short film of yours. And you also got one of my favorite character actors, by the way, in the film, Carmine Felipe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Carmine was every movie that Carmine is in,

he is just you're just drawn to him he's like a magnet it could be because his performance and every movie I've ever seen of him no matter whether it's in Wayne's World or Beetlejuice or even in your film Second Dance he's just always you're just drawn to his performances

Well, you know, the funny story about him was I was working on another movie in production. And while I was on set, on location, who's walking down the street in Hollywood is Carmen. And

And I knew that I wanted to have someone in this short film. Usually what, what people try to do is they try to get one name, a big name or something like that to do a cameo, to doing your film. And I, I didn't want, I didn't want it to be, you know, to, to get Al Pacino, you know, in, in the, in the short film, I would have loved to have done that, but I didn't see, you know, a, a spot for that to put it in there and take your attention away. So when I talked to Carmen, Carmen is completely different or was, you know, he,

passed away, but he was completely different from the characters that he played on film. And we had a great discussion about acting, about life in Hollywood, and his journey as well. And I told him the story that I just told you about the process in which Second Dance was made. And he...

He, um, he was drawn to the story and he wanted to be a part of it. In fact, after he read the script, he had said to me, I love it. I want to do this no matter what I'll be there. Would you mind if I kind of like, you know, um, went off the script for a little bit. And I said, look, as long as you stay on the path of where we're heading to, you know, your dialogue will be golden for me. Just make sure that we stay within those confines of the story. And, um,

You know, when you do a short film, especially when you're shooting on film, because I shot that on 35 millimeter, you don't have a lot of luxury to do multiple takes. And I think we did maybe maybe two or three takes at the most of him. And I let him go. And I just said, go, go with it. And, you know, he lit up the screen. He looks great on film. He's engaged with the characters and he communicates extremely well.

And it just, he was a pleasure to work with.

Because obviously, you know, it doesn't cost anything to, you know, put another file on an SD card or what have you. But again, when you're working for 35 millimeter, there's, you know, every take literally does cost you money. Yeah.

Oh, without a doubt. In fact, you know, I cut the movie on a movieola and, um, you know, people don't realize, you know, the filmmakers of today, what, even what a movieola is unless they Googled it. And, um, you know, you have this tiny little screen that's like a three by five screen and you put the film and the sound through it. And that's what you're watching to get your final product out there. And it's, it's a big risk. You know, it's a, it's a, uh, it's a, um,

it's just a chance that you're taking, you know, and we didn't have, we also didn't have video playback. So I stood by camera and watched the performances there, hoping that my, my DP, my cinematographer would capture the essence of what was in the script. And, and he did, you know, we, uh, we lit it. I love films that are, are dark in the sense of their lighting and, uh, doesn't, it doesn't look flat. And, uh,

just does, it just exposes just enough to bring you into that world. And Chris Mosley, who's my DP, we had long discussions prior to that about this process and knowing that we had to capture things. I didn't care. I wanted to give it like a film noir look with color. And, um,

and go through that process. But, uh, by, by doing it on 35 millimeter, I was, uh, limited to, um, the number of takes the time and, you know, poverty breeds creativity. So we did what we could to get the best performances on screen and everybody from the background to the, you know, the main actor, they all pulled it off and, and, uh, the proof is in the pudding for, for the film itself. Yeah.

Yeah, and you mentioned something too that is thought-provoking too that I've mentioned to other guests and we've talked about is the relationship between the director and the DP. Like today, people usually get monitors and they watch. They can see the exact framing. But it used to be you had to trust your director's cinematography with everything.

with everything because you know you didn't get it you didn't see what they were actually getting if you know what i mean they were they were actually you had to trust them that they were getting this correct shot that everything looked good and you and and directors would stand and you know watch the actual actual character performance the actual the actual actor performances right then and there but and not on a monitor and you know and now nowadays so that's that's what most directors do is that they have the actual monitor now to see the performances as they're happening

Well, you know, you're absolutely right. And what I try to do and what I've done on my films is communicate with my DP and allow him to paint the picture. I give him a map of what we want to do. I try to frame certain things and he lights and takes it from there. When I did Hush, the short film, my DP, John Connor,

And I, we worked for four and a half months beforehand and had everything mapped out. I did the storyboards. We looked at camera angles. I had purchased something on my iPhone, which was called Filmic Pro to take video and snapshots of the set and the actors in position. So we had some sort of framing for that. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

And now, back to the show. But I did discuss with John, which we were pulling our hair out, and I said, look, I don't want any lights in this movie. It's at night. It's indoors, an interior shot. I said, I don't want

any lights at all. I just want a flashlight. And John, you know, said, how are we going to do this? We shot with the Alexa, but we came up with a plan and, uh, an idea that was sparked, uh, in the preparation. And, um, you use these little tricks, uh,

to create the scene and it worked perfectly. And if it wasn't for that prep time and the discussions and the relationship between myself and a DP, I don't think we would have had what we had. And most filmmakers today, they just want to make a movie to get out there and make a movie. But if you don't have, if you don't have a good DP and great sound, uh,

then you're traveling down a road where you're just like everybody else and you're just going to shoot on an iPhone or something and it looks flat and there's no style to it. But when you create something and you have a great relationship with your DP who shows a style, it elevates you as a filmmaker. And I think that's one of the things that's very, very important to a lot of filmmakers or for a lot of filmmakers. And you see it in a lot of the, in the horror genre where, um,

the lighting and, uh, uh, and the composition is just done so well in most of those films. And I think a lot of the, the successful filmmaker filmmakers of today started out in, uh, in horror. Yeah, that, that is very true. And, and, you know, that's, uh,

Something that I've even talked about at the beginning of the podcast when I had on David Huell from Horror Movie School, a lot of successful filmmakers actually did start in horror. And like Sam Raimi always is the first one that comes to mind because Sam Raimi made Evil Dead and then Evil Dead 2. And then years later, he went on to make Spider-Man. And now he gets those big blockbuster movies. Yeah.

Right. Well, I mean, James Cameron made Piranha the Spawning. Yeah. You know, there's just, I mean, you look at the people who started their career out, especially with Roger Corman. And, you know, there was Francis Coppola, there was Martin Scorsese, and all of these great filmmakers of today actually got their start through that, you know, that path that Corman set out to create.

So, you know, I got to give a lot of credit to filmmakers and producers like Roger Corman because he opened the door for people. They didn't have a lot of money to make those movies. But I think that goes back to saying that poverty breeds creativity. And when you're a filmmaker, your creative side and those creative juices have to flow. And they have to flow with your DP as well as your actors. And when it all comes together, you know, this is what filmmaking is.

Yeah, I love that saying, by the way, poverty breeds creativity. I like that, Mike. I might have to steal that, by the way. It's yours. Yeah. So, Mike, after you made Second Dance, you made some other films, obviously, between Second Dance and Hush. Hush, I want to get to. But I want to talk, obviously, about those films in between.

You filmed Second Dance. Did you take it to any film festivals? Did you parlay that into your next film, which was Dominion? Well, what I did was I submitted Second Dance to Sundance. And I didn't make it because it was too late. So I talked to a friend of mine who's a producer. And he said, look, let's get a screening.

We'll get a screening. We'll get a room over at TriStar over where Sony is now. And we'll screen that. And then that, you know, you'll bring some people in. Look, there may be only 30 people that show up and we'll see what happens. So I said, OK. And now, you know, you have a 35 millimeter can that you're walking around with. This is your child. So I brought that to Sony and.

I put word out, you know, I had been in the movie business and working in production, which my brother got me. I got my brother into it. And then he got me on in on that side. And we got a ninety nine seat theater and I waited outside and five hundred people showed up.

Keanu Reeves, because I had worked with him on Speed. And so now, you know, what do I do? And I had to show the film five times because there was only 99 seats. And when it was over, the projectionist came to me and she said, and it was a woman, and for the life of me, I can't remember what her name was, but I'm actually searching now to find out because we're about to screen the next movie at Sony. And she said to me, Michael, have you submitted this to Sundance? And

And I said, yeah, but it was too late. I didn't make it. She said, well, why don't you leave it here for this weekend? Because the gentleman that is part of the shorts program, he's in charge of the shorts program, he would be here. And I should show this to him. This deserves to be in there.

So I thought, oh my God, I'm leaving my child here, you know, at Sony, you know, over the week, for the week. And I trusted her and came home, you know, and about four or five days later, I get a truck comes up with the can, film can, drops it off for me to sign. And I figure it's over. I don't hear anything. Well, about two and

two and a half weeks later I get a letter in the mail that says Sundance and I thought right away this is a rejection letter just thanks for sending it in but no thanks and I'm sitting on the front porch with my dog and I open the letter and sure enough it says on behalf of Robert Redford and the Sundance Film Festival you have made it to the festival so I

I jumped for joy for that and, uh, went to, uh, went to the festival. It was, um, I think it was at the same time that hoop dreams was playing at that time. And Matthew Modine was in a, uh, a short film and Winona Ryder. And so we were all interviewed by entertainment tonight, uh, for that. And I got, uh, I got approached by another company. I had written a, um, an action, uh,

a thriller that I just wanted to sell. I didn't want to, you know, I didn't want to, um, I didn't want to direct it. And they approached me and they said, uh, you know, this would be great if you will do this, if you want to direct it. And, uh, the producer who helped me with the short ended up producing that. And we went on to do that feature. Uh, the funny story was, um, I had been working in production, you know, at a craft service company and I was doing a movie called, um, uh, airheads, uh,

with Adam Sandler and, uh, you know, um,

Steve Buscemi and Ernie Hudson was in it. And Ernie Hudson would get a couple of scripts, you know, during the course of the week. And what I did was I took my script and I got the PA who was bringing it to his, his trailer. And I sneaked it in there. And about two days later, Ernie called me to his trailer and said, did you write this? I said, yeah. He says, I want to do it. And I said, Oh my God, it's great. So I prison prison entertainment at the time. We basically,

made a deal together. It was a $1.3 million movie and Ernie was in and we did a promo shots with Ernie's face on the poster and got everything together. And then a couple of months before, about a month or so before shooting, Ernie came to me and said, Mike, I feel bad, but Kathleen Kennedy called me and I'm going to do this movie called Congo. And he says, I won't be able to do that movie. And I, you know, of course I was disappointed, but you never want to say,

screw you. You're supposed to do my movie. You don't survive in this industry by being that way. And I was so supportive of him. I said, look, go do that. You're going to, you're going to do a lot better than doing this movie for this little movie for me. But we ended up getting Brad Johnson and, um, and also, uh,

I don't know if you, if you've seen the movie, Brian James, who was in a blade runner and a 48 hours and, uh, a few, a number of other actors and in Richard really, who plays a character role in that. And then, um, that went on, it was, I think it was on, it was on cable for a while. And then I went off to do a couple of other, uh, shorts that won some awards. And then I did another feature called the art of a bullet with, uh, Leif Garrett. And, um,

you know, I, people were laughing at me of casting Leif Garrett in this, in the lead role, but I have to tell you, Leif did such an amazing job in this role. It was a dark kind of a film noir detective thriller about a home invasion. And he was,

he was spot on. And then of course, after the film, he got in a little bit of trouble and, um, things kind of went sour for a while for him, but it really worked, you know, it worked out for the film itself. And, um, you know, we got a small distribution deal overseas for that. And then I went on and started writing again. And that's when I came up with this idea of finally doing a horror movie. So, and, and just to, uh, stop and ask a question right here. Um,

Don't you think it's important for pretty much everybody, whether you're an actor or a director, to be writing your own scripts? Just to even if whether you're going to shoot it yourself or even just to hand it to somebody else and maybe say, hey, would you want to make this? We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

You know, I think, I don't think any, you know, it's a great question because there's some incredible writers out there, independent writers that haven't made it yet. And they have some remarkable scripts and they don't want to be a director. They don't

They don't even want to be a producer. They just want to write. And so, yes, I found it that in the beginning stages of my career, when I first moved out here, I bought myself a computer and I, you know, not even knowing how to use it. The only thing I wanted to learn was a screenwriting program. And I had the first computer.

you know, a version of final draft when it came out and started writing that because a writer writes and that's what I was trying to do as well as, as make my film. But I think, you know, if you, as a filmmaker starting out, it might be, it might be wise to either write something if you're able to write something that is, um,

is readable and enjoyable for the reader and the audience. But you may find a writer that's out there that has written something that you may not be able to pull off in your own writing skills. I mean, I'm reading some scripts now that I would never be able to do and I love and I'm working on trying to acquire them. But

It's a great question to ask. I just think it's the individual who wants to create something and maybe sit with a writer and create something or do it yourself, like you said. I don't think there's any specific answer for that.

Okay, and it's always something I always ask everybody because some people got very frustrated about not having options. Some people wanted to make their own opportunities. There's always a couple of key words, just one single word that I always find on the podcast, Mike. One of them is creativity. Another one is opportunities. And I always sort of let – we can draw so much from them because –

We're always boiling things down to that one word that we can use. Again, I like your definition of creativity. Poverty creates creativity.

And, uh, and, and just, you know, that's why I wanted to ask that question. But, you know, um, so as we continue on with, you know, with, with your whole journey, you know, uh, again, you wanted to write a horror movie. So where does sort of the impetus to, of the, of the idea, this sort of seed idea, where did that come from for, uh, for the concept of, of the horror movie? Well, early on, um, I was inspired by, um, thrillers. Um,

Hitchcock, things like that. I'm not very much into slasher films, blood and guts, torture or anything like that. And looking at the horror genre,

The horror genre to me is like 31 flavors. You know, you have people that like vampire movies. You have people that like zombie movies. You have people that like paranormal movies or slasher movies. But when you make a horror thriller, you get the attention of all those across the board. And that's what I wanted. I didn't want to make a specific...

film for one specific audience. So I started thinking about things and I have twin boys and when they were very, very young, they used to say before they went to bed, they used to say, daddy, check under the bed. Daddy, check the closet. Daddy, you know, and I said, there's nothing there. There's nothing there.

And that inspired me to create this story of Hush. And so when I got into it, I wanted to, I started writing the feature, which originally was called The Hatred. And

I took a scene out of that, which is the scene, you know, the hush, which we shot. And I decided that I was going to go out and try to try to shoot this as a short film because years ago in the eighties and nineties, a lot of the stunt men that I knew were creating sizzle reels or, you know, a reel that would expose it would actually promote the film itself.

So kind of like a teaser. And I thought, you know, I'm going to do this one scene. If there's attention for this, it may give me a shot at the feature. And I wanted to make more of an anticipation of death rather than death itself, because

You know, the anticipation of death is worse than death itself. And if you're watching something and it's what's behind the door, it's the journey from the moment you hear the sound till you get to the door. That journey in between is the journey that raises the hair on the back of your neck. And that's what I wanted. So I...

I have a very close friend of mine that we were started out our careers very early. His name is Tommy Harper or is Tommy Harper. And we decided that we were going to try to develop this. Now, Tommy Harper started out as an AD and then worked his way up in producing. And at the time, Tommy had said to me, you know, do this, but you really need a DP that understands horror.

So I told him about John Connor and John Connor and I had been friends for many, many years. We worked on a couple of films with Tony Scott and then we started talking. This was 18 years ago. We talked about making a movie together and Tommy Harper said, no, no, no. You know, he's that he doesn't know hard. You look at these guys.

So Tommy went off, told me that he was not going to be available because he was leaving town to go work, to go produce a movie. And that movie, that little movie was star Wars, the force awakens in London. So I said, okay, well, I don't want to stop you from working on this little movie to go work on that little movie. So Tommy went off to do that. And while the cat's away, the mice will play. And I got John Connor to shoot hush. And, um,

when I, in the, in the process of writing it and doing it, as I said to you before, we created this, uh, um, this formula that we wanted to make for this movie. And, um, when we finished it, uh, I had my editor is a guy named Michael Trent, who's an incredible editor work with Steven Spielberg for many years. And, uh,

We have our kids went to school together. So we had a relationship there and I didn't expect him to want to be a part of it He read the script and he said I'll do it. I'll do it and it was only five minutes but the the footage that I gave him I got to give him credit for the for the entire cut because the only thing we did was extend one little piece of the section of the movie other than that what you see is Michael Trent's cut and then

Then, you know, we started the journey with the short film on the festival route. And I spent, you know, filmmakers have to understand you have to spend money to make money. And you've got to get it out there and you've got to get it out to the right festivals. You know, you want to go to festivals that...

have screenings. You want to go to festivals that are probably a few years in the making because there are, you know, there's some people that are sitting home that are, you know, typing out little certificates and emailing them to you saying you won this festival when it really doesn't mean anything. So you want the, you want the acknowledgement from the audience as well as a respected film festival.

Yeah, you know, that's also something that I've talked about too with other people on this podcast has been, you know, what festivals are, can actually do something for you as well as, you know, you're giving a submission to them. Are these festivals valid? You know, if you, because way back when I had a script writing consultant on,

who actually said he had a client and she ended up winning like 15 different screenwriting competitions. But the downside was, Mike, none of them were like the big name competitions. They were the smaller competitions. And he said literally...

The only way she got more work after winning all these competitions was that she had a deep network and that one person got her into somewhere else to do a writing gig. And it just goes back to... We were talking about networking and things like that. But just to talk about, again, with Hush, making sure the audience responded to it as well as the festival circuit. When were you...

When did you sort of know that you had, I guess the term would be hit, when did you know that you had something here that you sort of got lightning in a bottle with this? Well, another great question. I'm extremely hard on myself.

it's hard for me to sit in the theater to watch the movie that I made because, you know, I want to please the audience and I want to go out. And sometimes you never know, you know, what's going to happen and their reaction, if it's positive or negative. So when we finished it, I showed it to a few people and the reaction from them jumping out of their seat. I knew that there was something there. I didn't know if they were being honest with me,

But as I started testing it with people, I got the same feeling. So I said, OK, you know what? I'm going to put it out into this festival. And the very first festival, we won eight awards. And I thought, OK, well, maybe this is it. And we started applying. I spent a lot of money putting it out to film festivals. We got on Film Freeway and we started hitting it.

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show. And we couldn't get into some of the bigger festivals at the time because of the timing of it. But as it started going out, and like you had said, which I think is so important, you have to build a network, a following to get in there. And since we now have social network,

you can actually go out and let people know what you're doing. And in doing that, people will start to gain a little interest and see what you're doing. And as you're starting to hit that market and festival after festival, and you're announcing it because you have to be your own publicist,

people will be interested and say, well, I want to see this film now because it's won 10, 12, 14 awards. And not until, um, we were selected at the Catalina film festival. And, uh, uh, my good friend Ivana cadaver, uh, said to me, uh, I couldn't make it to the festival because I was actually, uh, um,

going to be working on this other movie. And I said, I'm not going to be able to make it. She said, I'll go in place. And then she called me and said to me, do you know that Wes Craven actually chose your film? It was before he died. It was one of the films that he said, this deserves to be in the festival, deserves to be a feature.

So I think F. Gary Gray made the announcement or whatever at the festival itself, and Robert Englund was there. And we won an award there, the Wes Craven Award, which was a great feather in my cap for the movie. And as that went out, and I built this following on social network, it was Twitter and Instagram and Facebook, people started seeing what was happening. And I put it out.

uh, and gave it to a producer by the name of Malik Akat. And Malik is responsible for the Halloween franchise. And, um, you know, I was, I had sent it over to Blumhouse. I sent it over to a couple of other places, Sony and, and some other places. And Malik called me and said, now,

I've been sent a lot of scripts. I really like this. I want to sit down with you with this. And Malik's kind of a hands-on producer. And we sat and we developed the story and continued with the events that occur within the script and the characters and taking some things out and putting other things in. And...

We got financed and we were set to go into production. It took a while from the time that the I think the film was the short film went out in the latter part of 2014. And we shot the film in 2000. It was 2016 when we shot that.

I think it was 2016. I can't remember what happened yesterday, but, um, you know, we, uh, yeah, it was, it was, it was a spring of 2016. And, uh, that what happened there, once again, this, this comes into mind about, uh, poverty breeding, breeding, create creativity. You know, we had a limited time to shoot. I think we had like a, an 18 or 19 day schedule, but, um,

We were just under a million dollars and wasn't a lot of money for what we wanted to do because we had big expectations of trying to put the best up on screen. And we were hit by the union, so we had to go union. So we lost a number of days for that, and it's a good amount of money from the budget. So losing two days is a lot, and we were shooting, I think,

35 setups a day, which is, you know, remarkable for a feature. And I got to give credit to my crew and my cast because they were with me. And I remember working with Tony Scott

And Tony Scott getting up there and lifting up, you know, boxes and moving and getting the team to move, go, go, go. And that's what they did. And so we went, we were prepared in one seat, in one part of this house we shot in and made people aware of what was going on. So we would be able to go from there to the next spot. And Malik did a great job of, you know, guiding it through.

and creating a world for us to, uh, you know, to have an opportunity. We had a great line producer by the name of Sean Gorey. And of course my, my DP, John Connor, who is so, is so incredibly talented. Um, in fact, um,

John went on to shoot Meet the Blacks and a couple of other movies. Taylor Loeffner movie that I can't remember the name of it right now, but John got signed by an agency right away after that. And we, you know, it was a, let me just say this. It was a battle for me because you have one idea and one path that you think that this film is going to go on. And then, of course, it takes a different path because of

the roadblocks that you have. And I'd look at the film now and is it the movie they originally wanted to go out and make? Probably not. But however, now it's, it's a, it's a movie that I'm very proud of. It's kind of a, it's an homage to the seventies and eighties with no blood, no guts, no sex, no stupid women. And we have 95%, uh, uh, uh, female cast. So, um, uh,

I think we ended up hitting the mark on what we did. By the way, I wanted to mention, Mike, we actually have a mutual friend who actually worked on Alice the Hatred and who did the makeup effects sculptor, and that was Hiroshi Kitagiri. And Hiroshi's actually been on this podcast as well. Oh, wow. Oh, yeah.

Well, you know, it's a small world, right? Yeah, exactly. I mean, this is, this is a great story as well. I was working in, um, on a movie called last samurai. I was in New Zealand, the Tom Cruise movie. And, uh, we had gone to Japan and we were sick, I think five months in, into, uh, New Zealand. And the, um,

The transportation coordinator, his name is Vic Kucha. His daughter, her name is Austin Kucha. I think she was like 10 or 11 years old at the time. And we were prepping, so I was driving out on one of those Honda, I forget what they call them. They're like the four-wheel go-karts, so to speak, but they're motorized. And I'm driving her out.

And she's sitting with me. And I just said to her, I said, what do you want to do when you get older? She said, I want to do special effects makeup. And I said, really? And she said, yeah. I said, well, if I ever make a movie, you know, I'm going to bring you on there. Now,

Never thinking anything would happen. Years later, I'm doing Hush, and Austin has created blood rugs. I don't know if you know what that is, but when you watch CSI and you see an actor dead laying on the floor in a pool of blood, they have this rug that they peel up and they lay down so you don't ruin the floor in a location. And they could put splatters on the wall.

which is P which peels off and goes back on. So you never have to worry about, you know, continuity, you know, somebody stepping into it cause it doesn't change. And Austin, uh,

did the makeup on hush and ended up coming on the feature as well so um this is another thing of how small this little world of hollywood is you know and it's uh to me it's a great little world and you know when i hear people say oh that's so hollywood that person's so hollywood to me there's there's broadway there's off broadway and there's off off broadway in hollywood there's hollywood there

There's off Hollywood or Hollywood, independent Hollywood, and then desperate Hollywood. And desperate Hollywood are those people that talk about doing it, never do it, and say they have money, but never do it. And believe me, I've been dealing with that. In fact, right now on an independent movie, people are saying, yeah, they have money, and they know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody. And to me, that's desperate.

So, you know, give credit to the people that are actually doing things and making it happen. There's so many wonderful filmmakers out here that I always try to support at festivals and try to see what they're doing and always, you know, have whatever advice that I could give from my journey and my adventure. I always try to help others with it.

Yeah, I like that term, Desperate Hollywood, Mike, because I've encountered that myself. And whenever I'm reading someone's autobiography, they've had that as well. Particularly the first person that comes to mind is Quentin Tarantino. When he was trying to get money for Natural Born Killers, which was actually one of his first screenplays –

He actually met these two bodybuilders who were trying to – they said, well, we have all this money and this and that. They didn't have anything. When he wrote Reservoir Dogs, somebody else tried to – said, oh, I can get you the money, but you got to make my girlfriend has to be Mr. Blonde, the Mr. Blonde character. Just put it as a woman. All these people were just blowing smoke. They didn't really have any money at all. Yeah.

Yeah, that's what filmmakers run into. There's always somebody that says, I've got to have my girlfriend in there, and we can't tell my wife. Or I've got to do this, and I've got to do that, and you've got to do this for me. But I think every filmmaker needs to stay on track for what they want. Because ultimately, it's their ass that's on the line and no one else's. And if you end up, when the term's selling out, it's selling out to say, well, I'm going to do this just to get money. You know,

Don't go out to make a movie just to make a movie. I mean, you wouldn't go out and have a child just to have a child. You know, you want to make sure that you can support that child and nurture it and grow just like you would with a film. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

And so I think that that's the attitude that a lot of successful filmmakers have, is to create a world and try to get it not only from the page to the camera, to the audience. And it's remarkable. Sometimes I hear these people that are just going out and I see some of the films that they shoot and it looks flat.

the acting's not that great and and where they put it out it goes nowhere and they say well I'm gonna have a life on YouTube well that's great but if you really if you want to be a filmmaker you know put your heart and soul into it and surround yourself to me this is the most important thing surround yourself with people who are smarter than you because you don't it's good to know a little bit about everything but get somebody that can actually do

the job of, you know, your sound guy. For instance, Tom Curley, who won the Academy Award for Whiplash was my, um, my sound mixer on the movie that we did the hatred and Thomas from upstate New York. So we had that in common. I had worked with Jeff Wexler, whose dad is Haskell Wexler. When I did a little short film that won it, um, at Comic-Con years ago. And, uh,

To me, you really have to have great sound for a film. People will say, you know, we'll do it in post. I hate that line that we're going to fix it in post. If you don't fix it on the set, you're going to have problems later on. You know, so you put your heart and soul in it and you get people that are smarter than you because that's going to pave the road to success for people who dedicate their heart and mind to it.

Yeah, I also don't like that whole attitude of, you know, let's just fix it in post. You know, I think, you know, when you're almost like when if

you've were to interview a lot of student filmmakers. I think a lot of them have that attitude. And unfortunately some people don't, some people don't lose that attitude. And I've been on film sets too, where, you know, I mean, hell I'll admit it, Mike, I've been guilty of that too. And, you know, that was a few years ago, obviously, but when I now, you know, when I'm, whenever I'm, you know, it's been a while since I've been on set. I shouldn't have mentioned that, but, but it's been a while since I've been on set to, you know, as I run a film podcast, but basically, you know,

You know, I realize now you have to do it right, you know, right when you're right then and there. And, you know, sometimes you need a little more time, but it always sort of comes down to that production management triangle, right? You can have it good. You could have it, you know, there's the quality, the speed and the time. So, you know, you can have it fast and slow, but it'll be good, you know, all that stuff. And you got to sort of all sort of manage that while you're on set.

Well, you know, and that's why preparing is 90% of the job because then everything runs smoothly after that. And have in mind that you are going to come into some changes. You know, filmmakers don't... Some filmmakers early on don't realize that when you're recording sound on set, you also have to have room tone that you're going to record so you can use later on in case there's a change in dialogue or you have to shoot something laterally.

later on getting that room tone puts you back into that set and if you watch a movie that has crappy sound it's

It takes you out of it. If you watch a movie that has an okay picture and great sound, you know, you're still engaged. You're still involved. But sound is so important and so engaging for the film that most people don't consider it to be that important. And it's something that they say they'll always fix later. And I disagree with it wholeheartedly.

Yeah, same here. Same here, Mike. And it is very important. Something I learned from Kelly Baker. Kelly's been on the show as well. And he's the sound mixer for Gus Van Zandt. And yeah, he and he's always mentioned, you know, about the importance of sound and everything. And he really is the person that really sort of drove that home for me.

And, you know, even when I watch movies now, I'm always watching, I know I'm always listening now for how the sound compliments the video part, the actual, you know, what we can see.

Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, it's almost a character in the film itself. I wrote, and Tommy Harper is responsible for making this deal, I wrote a sci-fi film that's kind of like in the same vein as Alien and The Thing. And I wanted to set it in Iceland on this Air Force base that my father was actually stationed at in the 50s. And

I, uh, you know, presented it to them and they picked it up and they flew me out there for, uh, for scouting and which we're going to shoot this thing, uh, in this, this fall, late fall in Iceland. And one of the things when I went out, one of the experiences that I had when I was on the location, we went inside the old base that's been shut down since 2000. And, uh, and I believe, um, 2008, um,

It was an American base, and they had, you know, in Iceland, their power is 220, and ours is 110. So there was 110, but they had pulled everything out. And so this particular facility had these walls that were, like, probably a foot thick. And when I went in there, it hadn't been touched since then.

2011, I think, and there was no dust on the walls or anything. But the sound in there, I started smiling because every little thing, if you dropped a coin, it had this incredible sound because everything was completely silent.

because of the thickness of the walls. And I just knew that this was going to be something that came, you know, along with the film that was going to elevate the film. So having a great sound man and having a great location for that sound is just equally as important, you know, for the success of the film. You don't want to shoot near an airport and have a, you know, have a dramatic scene. That's an emotional scene with two people talking. So, um,

You just have to, you know, you have to really pull it off in such a way and do that research. So I look forward to, you know, to creating that movie as well. It's titled Kevlovik with a company called True North that is in Iceland. Kristen Thornton, who's the producer for that, they actually met up, they started out as a production facility company and they did Walter Mitty, they did Star Wars, they did some of the

some of the Star Treks. And there's a great story of how that came about with that meeting because Tommy Harper introduced me to Kristen at a meeting and Tommy had asked me if I had any, you know, scripts that were kind of sci-fi. And I said I had an idea and

but I didn't have a script. And when we got to the meeting, Tommy said, Mike's got a great script. It's a sci-fi tone. And I just sat there, uh, you know, stuttering and then pitch the story. And he said, ah, you get, got to give this to me so I can read it on the way home. And I said, well, I just have to finish the last 25 pages and then went home and wrote the thing in a month and sent it out to him. And that's how that, that whole deal started. So it's, uh,

It's been a good journey so far. Yeah, man, that's really cool, Mike. I was actually going to ask you, you know, I know The Hatred has been completed and hasn't been released yet, but I was going to ask you, you know, what's the next project coming up? So you read my mind on that one, Mike.

Well, that's actually not my next one. I mean, I just finished writing. As soon as I finished The Hatred, we went into post, I was running out of money, and I got a phone call from a good friend of mine who said, hey, I need you. I know you worked on Mission Impossible in Dubai, and you oversaw some things. I'd like you to come on this movie and do it. And I said,

I said, where is it? Where are you? And he said, Budapest. And I said, yeah, I'm there. And I went out there to work on this

little movie called Blade Runner 2049 and had a great experience there. I met some incredible filmmakers from all parts of Europe and Germany and Budapest. And Budapest is an incredible place to shoot films. And it can double for like England and France and Russia and Romania, all these other places. So,

while I was there, uh, I, I got, uh, inspired again for another, um, horror movie and, uh, a horror thriller. And I started writing. And as soon as I got back home, I got into it. And on the weekends while I was working there, I just kept writing and writing and writing. And so I came back, completed the script and, um, I'm pushing that now to be

be done to shoot it this summer before Kevlevick. I just think that, you know, this is something that I want to do and try to get out. We're going to try to approach a couple of companies that I built relationships with, you know, that are out there. So hopefully that'll be the next thing. It's called Among the Damned.

And then again, it's good. It's good thing I asked that because I thought I I go because I wanted to make sure we I knew exactly what you were doing next. Because again, I think the story of hush and the hatred is fantastic, Mike. And I think, you know, if there's one thing that people can take away, you're just on this interview. It's just that, you know, you've been out there hustling. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

You didn't wait for an opportunity. You were always out there. Number one, knowing your craft, like you were saying, knowing how to do your job to the best of your abilities, and knowing

knowing it inside and out, and also always being professional. Like you said, you didn't say to that person, hey, you were supposed to do my movie, blah, blah, blah. Being professional and being flexible at all times to how things change in the movie business because they do change all the time. And obviously always making sure you have opportunities, again, just by hustling.

Well, you know, a lot of my friends, you know, are pretty amazed because I never give up, you know, and that's the one thing that I think that was instilled upon me from my parents. But I got to give credit to the people like yourself because of your support for this. And I think what's important for people to follow you and do that is this whole journey that the filmmakers like myself go on.

you know, you give this opportunity for other people to hear it, to inspire them. And it's because of people like you who really have a force in this industry to help people get along, because this is what lights a fire in someone when they're sitting in their, in their little apartment and they're listening to this and they find out, Hey, this is something I want to do. I can relate to that. It's not just because of the filmmaker saying that it's that person who's putting it out there and your love for films is

and your love for this industry and what you can do to connect that. And you being a filmmaker yourself, to go out there, I just think that this is something that's important and also needs to be addressed for people to follow you and see the different layers that it takes to make a movie. And so I thank you for your job and what you do because without you, nobody would know about some of us.

Well, you know, and I thank you very much for saying that, Mike. You know, the whole impetus for me creating this was, you know, there's a couple reasons why. The main reason was, you know, for people who have listened to this podcast since episode one, you know,

Almost three years ago now, I started this podcast. Oh my God, it's been three years. But for people who've listened to this since episode one, they know I started this podcast for... The number one reason was I got passed over for a promotion that was rightfully mine and my former day job. And two, I've always liked the concept of podcasting. And I always liked the idea of doing something like this. And it was just hard to get people to...

get together when I used to do podcasting because I did it with a group of people. But now I just do it with myself in my office and I get to interview really cool people like yourself, Mike. Well,

Well, listen, like I said, you give us an opportunity. I'm really excited about getting the hatred out there because the cast, when you see the women in this cast, you know, have done an amazing job. The acting is spot on. I am so fortunate to have actresses that are...

just so talented. And some of them, you, you, some of them, you know, I mean, in particular, Amanda Wiss, who is in a nightmare on Elm street and Silverado, um, to some of the other actresses that haven't been out there that much, but they've, they've done some incredible work. And I don't want to, you know, if I, if I mentioned, and I mentioned Amanda, but if I start mentioning one and I don't mention the others, I'll feel kind of guilty. But when the, uh, when you go and see this movie, just, uh,

I want people to watch the performances of these actresses because it's their movie as well, and they pull it off so well that it makes the film. It really makes the film. And that's one of the great things of having an opportunity to work with great actors and actresses. I will say that, and this is kind of showing off, but David Naughton is in our film, who played the lead in American Werewolf in London.

And the wonderful thing about having David and Amanda is they only worked one day and became friends with them, friends with Amanda prior to that. But creating a relationship with actors and as friends and knowing that you can put them in their movies and they can pull it off is the same thing that Scorsese does with De Niro. And I'm not saying, I'm not putting myself in the same category as Scorsese by any means, but I think that

Having a relationship with incredibly talented actors is so important that you can rely on them. It's just a phone call and say, I need you, and they're going to be there to play in your sandbox. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And that is something, too. You have a relationship with certain actresses and actors and being able to develop. That's something, too. When I used to watch movies, I used to sometimes wonder why certain directors would always work with the same actors and sometimes the same crew.

And now I get it. I believe me having, you know, made, made movies, made short films, you know, I get it now because you get used to working in a certain style. And, you know, if I hire the same person, it's a certain style, if it's my style and that's why we work, you know, and then we are the, the combination, the sort of synergy of what we do together helps us both out.

That's why Tim Burton always works with Johnny Depp. That's why, like you said, Scorsese always works with Robert De Niro. And you go down the list. Quentin Tarantino always works with Samuel L. Jackson and now Christoph Waltz. It's just they sort of bring out the best in each other.

Well, you know, when I did Second Dance, at the last minute, I cast a friend of mine who's a bartender that's a great actor. His name is Brad Wilson. And he gave such an incredible performance and was so dedicated. He didn't have the script until that morning, and he gave 100% to this script. I put him in two other films after that, and...

you know, he's just a chameleon. He's, he's a great actor. And I think that I'm fortunate to have somebody like that in my back pocket where I can pick up the phone and call him up and say, Hey, Brad, I need you to do this. I have the same relationship with Jack McGee. If you know who Jack McGee is, Jack McGee was the father in the fighter. He was in a TV series called, um, uh, God, it was the fire, the, the fire, uh, TV series, um, uh,

it's going to kill me that I can't remember. Um, not rescue me. It was a minute rescue me. I think it was. Oh, I was actually going to say that. Yeah. And, and Jack has been a friend. He's been in a few, few films of mine. And, um,

I just, you know, we're friends. I just call him up and he always says to me, Kia, what are you doing? What's going on? Am I going to work with you? And having a talented actor that likes that's like that, that supports you is worth its weight in gold. And so I really want to express to other actors, create relationships,

don't, you know, it's, it's great to know about camera. And there was a, there was a, uh, there's a great, uh, um, statement that was made. I believe it was Walter Matthau and Jack Lemon at the Academy Awards. And when they were giving an award out to, uh, directors, they said, there are directors that know everything about the human element and nothing about camera. There are directors that know everything about camera and nothing about the human element.

And I think that it's important to know about both. So when you get on the set and you're talking to an actor, you need to speak their language in order to get the performance that you want. When you talk to your DP, you need to speak their language to capture those moments.

And I'll never forget, I was working with a stunt man who was a director years ago. And there's a lot of very talented stunt directors that are now becoming great filmmakers. But this guy in particular, I'll never forget what he said. He says, let's hurry up with this dialogue so we can go flip the car. And I think when you have that attitude,

you miss the essence of what filmmaking is all about and how to bring out a great story. So, um, create a relationship with actors and, uh, and learn their language. You know, if you have to sit through acting classes or whatever and watch them create, that's important.

Yeah, when someone says something like that, you know, like, let's race through these lines so we can flip the car, you know, they don't realize that you have to sort of earn those things. And what I mean by earning the car crash or earning the kill in a slasher movie, because you have to build up these characters so we actually care about what happens to them. So if they do...

are in a car accident or do flip their car or what have you we as the audience are actually invested in their journey and these aren't just sort of moments that are happening for the sake of them happening but they're actually happening for a reason inside this story

Yeah, I mean, look, exactly. And story, it's all about the story. There's some incredible stuntmen, and the stuntmen of today, you know, that are extremely talented are like scientists because they measure out things, they want to make sure it's there, and they're also great actors. I have some friends of mine that are great stuntmen that are incredible actors, and they pay attention to the story. So I think a lot of it has changed over the years, and the business is evolving, and

And so we learn every day. I mean, I don't know it all. I'm learning every day. I learn something new about the business and how it changed from film to digital and how all this process that you go through in this journey teaches you something about how the process is, how the business is. But one thing that remains the same is telling a story. And that's what's most important. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

Yeah. The story is always, always the most important element in all this. Uh, cause you know, the symmetry, we tell a story and everything. Um, you know, Mike, you know, we, we've been talking for, you know, for about an, you know, about an hour five, I guess, you know, so just in closing, is there anything we didn't talk about that maybe you wanted to, or is there anything, or maybe it was something you just wanted to say to sort of put a period at the end of this whole conversation? Uh,

Well, I mean, listen, I would love to stay in touch with you and do another one of these anytime you want. I am speaking at the Geek Fest in Long Beach on the 18th with Ivana Kadaver, Amanda Wiss, and Jessica Cameron. So, you know, I think I just, you know, I just...

I want to make sure that filmmakers take the right path and we can all help each other in this business. I think that's one of the great things about how we... If someone does a poor job, you don't want to tear them apart and knock them down. You just want to support them and help them get to the next level. I want to continue my relationship with you and get the word out and share the things that I do with the audience.

And I will link to Michael's appearance at GeekFest. I'm going to link to anything in the show notes where people can check that out because I know, like we were saying, you are doing a panel with Jesse Cameron, and I want to make sure that – and again, as we talk about GeekFest, we're both friends with Bill Ostroff as well. We have a lot of mutual friends, Mike. We have a lot.

And I want to stay in contact with you as well. And for everyone who's interested in checking out all of Michael's work and also checking out him at this panel convention, I'm going to put that in the show notes. And Michael, do you have any websites that you want to give out to anyone? Sure.

Well, you know, I mean, you can follow me on Instagram, which is M I K E H O E dot L a one, one. And, uh, or, and I'm sorry, it's M I K E H O E one, one on Instagram. And, uh, Twitter is at Mikey Kehoe. And, um, you know, we have a Facebook page, which is called Alice, the hatred, uh,

which is slowly getting attention and people go out. We've had a number of titles for that. It's now called The Hatred, I believe, unless there's some changes. Those sites, yeah, follow me on it because I'll be posting some information and obviously the journeys and things that I'm doing. Hopefully, I can give a boost up to someone else.

And that is fantastic, Mike. And I always like that attitude about helping each other out. I think that's what it's really about, is helping each other out. You meet too many filmmakers who become either close-guarded or jaded, even from the onset sometimes. And they're just like, no, it's all about... They don't want to...

I've seen them burn out as well. I could do a whole podcast about that. It's always great to meet people like you, Mike, in this industry who are not only talented, but they also are so willing to help out others. It's just phenomenal.

Well, you know what? I think, I think, you know, there are great, great companies out there that are giving filmmakers an opportunity. One that comes to mind right away is Blumhouse and Blumhouse has, you know, a number of divisions, Blumhouse tilt, Blumhouse.com and the films that they make.

especially in the horror genre, they allow their filmmakers to make their movie. And I am so drawn to that company that that's the attitude that I have about wanting to help people and wanting to go out. That if you're a writer or a filmmaker that's creating a movie,

you know, something in that genre. And mind you, they're also doing, they did Benji, which is the old dog movie, you know, from the 80s. And they did Whiplash and a number of films. That to me is what it's all about. That company really puts themselves out there to give a shot to people. So hopefully we'll all be doing that.

Yeah, Blumhouse is fantastic. I'm always interested to see what they're up to, and they're just great. Yeah. There's not enough I can say about them and what they're up to. And Mike, I want to say thank you for coming on. Everyone, you can always find me, DaveBullis.com. Again, everything Michael and I talked about on the show, I'm going to put in the show notes, at DaveBullis.com. Twitter, it's at Dave underscore Bullis.

Michael, I want to say thank you so much for coming on. Dave, keep the dream alive. I'm going to do my best, buddy. And I wish you the best of luck with everything. And you know what? Anytime you want to come back on, you let me know and we're going to make it work. And I definitely want to have you back on. Great, my friend. Take care. Take care, my friend. Bye-bye.

I want to thank Dave so much for doing such a great job on this episode. If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes at indiefilmhustle.com forward slash 790. And if you haven't already, please head over to filmmakingpodcast.com, subscribe and leave a good review for the show. It really helps us out a lot, guys. Thank you again so much for listening, guys. As always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive. Stay safe out there, and I'll talk to you soon.

Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at IndieFilmHustle.com. That's I-N-D-I-E-F-I-L-M-H-U-S-T-L-E.com.