The ‘FBI’ called. Then she got scammed.
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On a busy September afternoon in 2023, Judith Boivin was running errands, taking her husband to the doctor when she got a call. The phone rang and it was plugged into my car so it was easy to answer.

And it was the Rockville Police Department that came up on the screen. Judith is 80 years old and she lives in Rockville, Maryland. The officer on the line told her she was in trouble. The individual asked who I was and how old was I and where did I live? And yes, you are being charged with fraudulent money laundering.

And there is an active FBI case and they're doing the investigation. And so I'm going to be referring you over to an FBI agent. Judith's mind started racing. She had no idea what this police officer was talking about, but she wanted to cooperate and help the authorities however she could.

Then the FBI agent, a man named Wayne Jacobs, came on the line. He told her he knew she was innocent. But a drug cartel was using her social security number to open bank accounts. He said, well, we would like to ask you if you would be willing to work with us and to be an asset. The FBI had come up with a plan to catch the cartel. They would be able to set a trap.

for them. And when he explained that if you can withdraw your money, my social security number would be changed. I would be given a new number. The money that I take out would be going into a vault at the courthouse in D.C., and that money would be returned to me. ♪

And this is how Judith ended up transferring her entire life savings over to scammers. Judith is everybody's mom and grandma. And that is why I chose her to tell the story of the victim. Michelle Singletary is the Post's personal finance columnist, and she's been writing about Judith's stories.

Last year alone, the FBI fielded more than 800,000 reports of crimes like this one. That's roughly 2,400 a day.

And authorities think the real number of victims is much higher. We've heard the news headlines. We've seen it on television. We see it on these crime shows. And oftentimes we concentrate on the big dollar amounts. They lost $100,000, $600,000, a million dollars. Like hearing about these scams that, you know, people who get called and they think it's somebody else and they're just giving away their money. Yes.

And that's how we look at it. And in Judah, we have a victim who worked her whole life as a public servant, as a therapist, as a nurse. I mean, volunteering to help other people. This pretender told her that she was an FBI asset. And that's what she thought she was. ♪

From the newsroom of The Washington Post, this is Post Reports. I'm Martine Powers. It's Thursday, December 12th. Today, the anatomy of a con job. We dive deep into how this scam worked, how the systems that could have protected Judith failed, and what it all can tell us about how to stop this from happening to hundreds of thousands of people every year in the U.S. Let's go back to the beginning of the scam.

Judith gets a call from the Rockville Police Department. And that was actually the second time that they'd called her that day. Tell me about this fun conversation. She got a call and it said Rockville Police Department. And she was busy doing some things. She said, OK. She kind of ignored it. And then they called again. So you get two phone calls from the police department. You're thinking something's wrong. She was on her way to take her husband, who has Parkinson's disease, to a doctor's appointment. And so she took the call.

He told her that her social security number was being used to open up bank accounts. The investigation was on this cartel that was trafficking fentanyl. And part of the scheme was they were selling drugs and they were taking drugs over the Mexican border. And they just wove this whole thing. And of course, her head is spinning and she's thinking, I didn't do any of

that? I didn't open up any bank accounts. What are you talking about? And they said, well, you need to take care of this because your name is connected with it. You could be arrested. You could be charged. And that's all that she heard at that point. And so then that person said, the FBI is handling the case. Let me transfer you to the FBI. And then the next call changed her life. He said, well, we would like to ask you

if you would be willing to work with us and to be an asset. When I use that term asset, what did that mean to you? Well, that I would be helping with

the case, so to speak. And that part was exciting to me from the standpoint of being a mystery lover myself and having read so many different mystery and detective stories. And I thought, wow, that would be okay. I could do that, I think. Yeah.

At that point, when she first started talking to the quote-unquote Rockville Police Department, then when she was transferred to the FBI, was there any part of her that was suspicious about this? Not at all. Not at all. Because the scammers are able to spoof real numbers. So if you looked up the number that's on your screen, it's the actual number of the police department or the FBI. Oh, wow. The caller ID said the Rockville Police Department. And so she never suspected that this was a scam. Okay.

Explain more like what they wanted her to do. Because it sounds like they're saying, look, it seems like you might be kind of tied up in some illegal business. She says, no, I didn't do anything wrong. I'm innocent. And then how does that become, okay, well, then you have to send over money?

At some point, as they were talking to her, they were able to extract from her where she was banking. And so the conversation then turned to, well, you know what? Because they're using your Social Security number and they possibly have the ability to get into your bank accounts, you need to move that money to a safe government locker. So as we're investigating a criminal case, that money isn't subject to the case in the criminal investigation. You'll have access to it and it won't get caught up.

So they didn't start off saying, hey, send me all your life savings. They said, no, they talked in terms of building a criminal case. And they pulled her along as, you know, you're going to be an asset. In the meantime, let's move your money so it doesn't get caught up in the investigation. That in her mind, she was protecting her money, that this was like a government-sanctioned account that would be more secure than where she currently has.

had her money in a private bank, and that if she moved it over, then the government would make sure that that money was safe. That's right. The money would be put aside and that it would be returned to her after the case was over. So how did that play out? When she was like, OK, I guess I need to protect my money. What did that look like? So they asked her to fill out a financial statement of assets. And so they sent her this fake document in which she listed all the money and where it was.

So now they had a roadmap to her money. And then they gave her a story to tell the financial institutions because they're going to be questioning because they know there's a lot of theft out there. So they said, don't tell them anything because this is an investigation. So the first institution, Morgan Stanley, she went, she said, I want to move all my money because I wanted to have closer to me. It was in a branch out of state.

And so she withdrew all her money from the first institution. And then the scammer said, now, look, you got to spread the money around because if you pull it all in one bank and pull it all out, they're going to be super suspicious. And then they're going to find out about the investigation and the investigation could be jeopardized. And so she got the money out from the first institution, then spread it among four branches of financial institutions in Maryland. And then he said, now you've got to take out the money in increments of $10,000 to $20,000. ♪

so she would get the money. I had to wrap the money, and then I had to do it in a certain way, specific directions of paper bag and then a brown bag, and you had to seal it with duct tape, and then I had to write on the cover of each partial.

She'd get instructions on where to go, even coordinates, right? Go here. She'd get there and they would tell her that some agent is going to pick the money up. And where is here? Like, was it like a parking garage? It was a parking lot, a parking, outdoor shopping center. She would sit in her car. They're there with her on the phone, coaching her. If she ever got nervous, it's okay. When they come beside you in the car, you're

Just hand the money through and the windows are dark. She can't see the person. So she'd just be in a parking lot. Another car would come up next to her. Correct. She'd just hand over this bag with money in it and then they drive away. And they drive away. And the whole time she's being told their FBI agent is watching this happen. So you're protected.

I know people are sitting home, well, you know, handing money to people in the cash in a car you don't see. But that's not how she is seeing it. She's saying, I'm in a car. I'm on the phone with the FBI. The FBI has agents watching me. So it doesn't sound ridiculous to her. Right. And each time, how much money are we talking about? Anywhere from $10,000 to $20,000. Wow. Wow. Yeah.

I mean, it sounds like she really felt like they were, like they had a process and she was following along with the process. That's right. And many of us respect law enforcement, that this is a law enforcement official. And I know that when people hear all that in the safety of their home, having not spoken to a criminal, they're thinking, well, that doesn't make any sense. But you have to put yourself in her shoes. Right.

Tell me more of what you understand about how these people were talking to her. It sounds like it wasn't just one person. It was multiple people. Like, what were they like on the phone with her? I mean, it seems like she developed a relationship with them. Yeah. So the initial call, there was at least two people. But at the end of the day, it was just the one person. And that was the quote unquote FBI?

That's the FBI agent. Wayne A. Jacobs. That's right. So twice a day. I don't know about you, but I didn't talk to my grandmother twice a day. I mean, they were talking to her twice a day and not talking just about this fake case. But, you know, how are you doing? How's your husband's health? And I was like, I don't know.

And she would say, oh, you know, I'm going to go see a granddaughter. How's the granddaughter? When are you going? What time's the train? I mean, some stranger just talked to you just out of the blue. You're like, who are you? But if they're talking to you every day, they know your husband's name. They know your pattern. And you're talking to them and sharing and they're sharing with you. Of course, you end up trusting them. So it sounded like she felt he was looking out for her. That's right. That's exactly right. ♪

He presented a situation where he cared about her. I mean, think about the word con man. The basis of that is confidence. They build your confidence, right? And again, as people are listening to this, if you are thinking, I would never fall for that or how could she fall for that? You are wrong.

And this is not going to help us stem this amount of money that is going out of people's accounts. And that is the point of this series. That's why she came forward to say, I was not stupid. I believe this person because they believed in me and they said I was helping the government do something good.

After the break, how this scam finally got exposed and how Judith is trying to pick up the pieces of her life. We'll be right back. This episode is supported by Rocket Money. Can you name every single subscription you have? I know I can't name all of mine, and I'm not alone.

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saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features. Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash reports. That's rocketmoney.com slash reports. rocketmoney.com slash reports. So, Michelle, it sounds like this was going on for months.

How did it finally start to unravel? Like, when did Judith realize she was being scammed? At some point, one of the financial institutions, at least one of them, contacted the Maryland Securities Office to say, we think that this person is a victim of a scam. And so it goes into their system. It takes a couple of months for them to reach out to her. They're swamped.

And when they do, she thinks they are part of the investigation. So she says to the person, so how's the case going? When am I going to be contacted? And they're like, we don't know what you're talking about. And she sends an email that she got from the scammer. And he says, look at the email address. And it says USA.com. And the fraud investigator from Maryland says if it was from the FBI, it would say .gov. And she then says, well, how would I know that? So what did he say on the phone?

that it's a scam. And what did you think after he said that? Well, of course I was shocked. The sad part about all of this is that the law enforcement agencies, the banks are overwhelmed with these scams. And I said, and what day did you receive this email? He said on November 1st. And I said, today is the 19th of January.

And you're just getting back to me now? That really disturbed me. Every cent of my money went out after November 8th. And so that is one of her criticisms is that had they contacted her sooner, that she may not have lost as much money as she did. At that point, how much money had she given them?

So about $595,000 of her retirement account. So what was the process for her in that moment of realizing, oh my gosh, this was a scam? This person I'd been talking to for weeks and weeks, this person who I really came to trust that he was scamming me. Utter disbelief. Utter disbelief.

It shook her to her foundation, to her core. She is a giver. She's a caregiver. How could someone do that to her? And then how could I have fallen for that? They blame themselves. I mean, I'm... Yeah, yeah. Because you're thinking that you're an asset. You're helping them in the criminal investigation. But as I'm speaking this, I can see how stupid it was.

Although Judith knows that she was manipulated, that she was the victim, she still feels embarrassed sometimes. And she'll say, you know, I was so stupid. And, you know, we always pause when she says that, you know, you weren't. She says, I know, but that's how I still feel. I still feel guilty.

Does she know who this person was, who these scammers were? She does not. They said it's an ongoing investigation, but they do know that they've tracked it to some criminal activity in India. I mean, she had been talking to FBI agent Wayne twice a day. Did she try calling him back? Yes.

She tried calling back, but the number's dead now. So obviously those are the big culprits here, right? Like the people who actually orchestrated the scam, the man who was on the phone with her checking in twice a day. I mean, that they are the people who stole her money. But it sounds like Judith also feels like there's some responsibility here with the banks. Yes, she does feel that way. In

In all, there were five banks involved in this government impersonation scam. Morgan Stanley was the main bank where she had all her retirement life savings. And then four branches of major banks in Maryland. I contacted all of the banks, although some of them said they couldn't talk about the specifics of her case. Those who could, Morgan Stanley, for example, did give me a statement about

They said, and I quote, while we deeply regret Ms. Boven's loss, we believe we did everything under the circumstances to prevent it, including putting a temporary hold on the transfer so we can investigate, notifying the authorities, and in the end, allowing Ms. Boven to only transfer her funds to an account in her name at another financial institution, end quote.

Though Capital One said it could not go into specifics on a customer's case, it acknowledged how devastating and how disheartening financial fraud can be.

And so they did their due diligence. Those who were required to contact the authorities did so. But from Judah's perspective, it wasn't enough that what she said was they said, we think this is a scam. And from her perspective, she says, well, if you had said they're going to lie to you, they're going to be on the phone with you. They're going to be talking to you all the time. If they'd given her more details about what it looks like in practice and real time, that perhaps it could have shaken her out of the ether. Hmm.

And that's where she feels that they failed. Had one of those two investigators at the Morgan Stanley Institution that had been carrying my finances for 30 some years, had either one of them called me and said, listen, we see what's happening here. We know that you're asking for all of your money out. We want you to know that

These are examples of some of the scams that are going on. Had anyone, anyone said anything to me, my own financial advisor did not talk to me. She just said, are you sure this is what you want to do?

Here's the difficulty. You just have to keep in mind that the scammer has much more influence in these situations and had so over weeks and months.

And so it's hard for the banks to counter that when the scammer has been manipulating her and lying to her and telling her that they're from the FBI when the banks only know her as a new customer. And that makes it difficult to spot this and stop it.

And you said that there was also this critical period in which Morgan Stanley had flagged her account to the Maryland government, but that it had taken them about a month and a half to act. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

what happened there and how Judith felt when she realized that they had known quite early on that she might have been the victim of a scam? So I contacted the Maryland authorities, and they would not discuss the case and what happened in that time period. What Judith was told was that we've had a heavy caseload, and we got to you when we got to you. But obviously, from Judith's point of view, well, it wasn't good enough.

Now, I've worked with the Maryland authorities. I've done scams, investigations, and I know that they are overwhelmed. I mean, there are a lot of people being scammed. I mean, people listening right now probably have gotten several calls in the time that it takes for this whole podcast to play out.

And so I understand that. And I think all the law enforcement officials I talked to recognize that they have to do more. What's the possibility of getting her money back? Because, I mean, if the banks had some early warning that this could have been a scam but that it took months for this to be communicated to her, I mean, couldn't they just give her back her money, right? Like, you know, if you get a fraudulent charge on your credit card, you call your credit card company. They're like, OK, we'll cancel your credit card and cancel those charges.

charges and you don't have to pay for them and we'll just send you a new card. I mean, can't they do the same thing here? Just give her back her money? Well, that's how she feels, obviously. But the problem with the way this works, the way the scam works, and the scammers know this, she took the money out.

She withdrew the money and then it was stolen from her in that next process. And so from the financial institution's point of view, when you do that, they have no way of knowing that this is a scam on the back end. Because their argument is the money wasn't stolen from the bank account because you're the person who paid.

came in and withdrew this money from your account. And the scammers know that. They basically exploit a loophole in the law. Yeah. It's sort of like if, let's say if you went to the bank and you withdrew $100 and then later you're walking down the street and someone knocks you on the head and takes your purse and takes the money. Yeah, the bank's like, that's not our problem. That's not our problem. Yeah. But then what about the government? I mean, can the government give her some of her money back considering that she was the victim of a crime? Yeah.

If they can do an investigation and get the criminals and then confiscate some assets, then sure. But in these type of scans where there's cash involved or they buy gold or cryptocurrency, you know, the money's gone. So what we have a situation is now Judith has her return.

Retirement money has been stolen. And with tax-advantaged retirement accounts, because that's where her money was, when you take money out, it is then taxed at your current income tax rate. So in this case, she took money out of her retirement account

And then it was stolen. But from the government's perspective, she withdrew the money and now she owes a tax bill on money that she doesn't have. So she has to give more to, after she was the victim of all this and gave away essentially all of her retirement savings, now she's responsible to pay more money to the federal government? That is what she's faced with. And a lot of victims are faced with that. But she was the victim of a

Yeah, exactly. So she feels like she's been scammed twice. And so it used to be there was a tax law changes in 2017. It took away the deduction for theft. Part of that was to pay for this big tax cut that went to corporations and wealthy individuals under Donald Trump's administration. And so that deduction was taken away. And now many people who fall into that category cannot take that deduction. And Judith is one of those people.

So she's faced with a huge tax bill. How much money is she owing to the government now? Between federal and state, about $180,000 in tax. $180,000 additionally? Yes. In taxes? Oh, my God. Yes. Can you imagine how crushing that is? You are a victim of a crime. And now the government says, well, sorry, you took your retirement money out. You owe us $180,000.

Wow. I mean, it's devastating to her. How does that make you feel that you might have to pay taxes on money that the scammer took? It's unjust justice. Totally unjust. It is no place in laws and policies. It's as much of a scam as the scam itself.

to think that people that have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars and they don't have it, and now they lose their home, their vehicles, everything, their credit, everything is gone. Gone. It's horrible. That gives me anger. I want to talk more about the role of law enforcement here, too. You said that Judith...

this to Maryland state authorities, the FBI. Did they have anything to say about her case? So I actually talked to and interviewed the real Wayne A. Jacobs. Oh, so there was a real FBI agent. There is a real... Are you 100% sure that the person that you talked to was a real... I'm 100% sure. I talked to him, saw him.

He's a real person. And ironically, he works in, you know, fraud. And I mean, he spent his whole career fighting this. Can you imagine? Your career is to fight this thing. And some criminal took your resume and used it to victimize someone. So what was it like for the real Wayne Jacobs when you reached out to him? He was crushed. He was, I mean, you could just hear it in his voice. Like, I cannot believe this.

that someone used my work, the work to help victims, to investigate cases, to victimize somebody else. And the first time he heard about it was when I contacted the FBI about it to ask them about Judith's case. You know, when you have a career that's dedicated to protecting people,

who ultimately find themselves being victimized, using your name, using your hard-earned reputation. It's infuriating. What else did the real Agent Jacobs have to say about how the FBI is trying to get a handle on this or the fact that these scams are so common? How is the FBI trying to respond personally?

to like get its arms around the scope of this? So they're really taking two tracks, obviously criminal investigation. They're working with state authorities. They're working with authorities overseas and then also in public education. And I was very grateful because, you know, that

FBI can be a little quiet. They don't always talk to the press. And I was very impressed that they were very open to talking about her case and what was happening. And so he and I had long conversations about the work that the FBI has been doing, the work that the Federal Trade Commission has been doing, even the Maryland authorities, even though they didn't talk about Judith's case, they talked about all the things that they've been trying to do, public education issues.

you know, working with the financial institutions to improve their systems to try to catch this. So everybody is actually working to try to stem it. But the scammers are just two and three and four and five steps ahead of them. You know, it's critically important that people come forward, even with that feeling, sentiment of embarrassment. Sometimes, you know, we're able to recover some of the monies, depending on how quickly the information is shared with us.

But beyond that, it is about preventing future victimization. Right. So if you yourself were a victim and the money is lost, you think about the impact that you could have by way of sharing the information with law enforcement, with the appropriate parties to help us get the word out. And so the series, I think, is doing two things. It's hopefully showing you how you can be a victim now.

And then by showing you that, we are protecting you because maybe you will remember Judith's story. How do we have respect for the victims but also empower people to fight the scammers? And say that there are like pretty clear doable steps that you could do to prevent this from happening to you. One of the things I say to folks is do nothing.

That's like pretty powerful because if you do nothing, you actually have more protections. That they're trying to create the sense of urgency of you got to act now. You have to call me back. You have to go to the bank now and just say, I don't have to do anything right now. That's right. So I say do nothing. Don't click. Don't call. Don't just do nothing. Pause. Slow down.

And if you slow down, then you can get out of your feelings a little bit and do the things that help protect yourself. And this happened to me recently. I got an alert from my bank that someone was trying to use my credit card. And in that moment, I was like, oh, my God, I got a call. And I said, I took a breath. And I said, I don't need to act right now because if they steal my money, they got to give me my money back because I didn't do anything. I didn't make a call. I didn't give nobody a code. So they got to give me my money back.

I called the bank and I said, hey, y'all been trying to contact me? And in that case, they had been. It was a legitimate text. I said, well, I saw the text, but I ain't trust it. She said, that's exactly what you should have done. She said, don't trust anything. When I teach about finances, what I tell people is the worst financial decisions are made when you are emotional. And so that is key to training people. Just slow down. Yeah, I think that's really important advice.

My understanding is that you've also been looking at this from a legislative perspective and that you've been talking to a member of Congress, Jamie Raskin of Maryland, to talk about this. And Raskin also happens to be Judith's representative in Congress, right? That's exactly right. Tell me about why you called him up and what he had to say about this. Raskin and some other legislators have been fighting to put back the deduction on

That would allow victims to take a deduction for the loss. That would go a long way to help them. So this is what was changed in 2017. That is correct. Bringing that back that basically if you are the victim of a financial crime, then you're not responsible for paying taxes on the money that was taken away from you. That's exactly right.

There was a perfectly sensible and indeed compelling provision in the tax code, which says if you've worked your entire life, you've saved up $600,000 and that money gets stolen from you in a scam. Then you can deduct that money for the purposes of paying taxes.

For one thing, you might not even have any money to pay taxes with. But for another, people shouldn't have to pay taxes on wealth that has been accrued that they've never seen. Realistically, what are the chances that that's actually going to happen? And where does that legislation stand now? Well, given how things are happening in Congress, it's a big hill to climb.

There's not a lot of bipartisan stuff going on in Congress right now. Even though it seems like if there's anything that would have bipartisan support, I mean, I know for a fact that both Republicans and Democrats get scammed by these people. And it seems like a shared American value that these scammers suck. There should be a way to help people who are victims. One would think, right?

But when it comes to what's happening in Congress right now, somehow that common sense way of dealing with this is not happening. But there is some hope. There have been a couple of pieces of legislation that would address this. They all stalled.

AARP has been advocating for it, so we will have to see. I think Raskin is hopeful that something may pass. I'm trying to be hopeful that this will happen and that there'll be a look-back period which would cover Judith.

The American people have been set up for a whole range of scams and cons, and we need to educate people about that. And we've got to structure the tax laws and the consumer laws in such a way as to protect our people.

It has been a year since Judith first gave this money to the scammer. Where is she now? What is her life like now? So, if it's okay, can I just correct what you just said? So, it's been a year since her money was stolen. Mm-hmm.

Right. We got we got to change the language. It's been a year since she was victimized and it's been a hard road for her. And there are moments where she's depressed. She had a panic attack at one point as she was thinking about all the loss. And I think it's important to say that she feels this loss because she doesn't want to be a burden on anybody.

Right? She spent her whole life doing exactly what we tell people to do. She saved. Saving up so she could have an independent retirement and not be a burden to her children. Right.

Right. And in fact, one way she's dealt with it is that AARP has created a financial fraud support group. And she's a part of that. She goes to the sessions regularly every week. And it's basically a group of other scam victims talking about it and getting support from each other. Because this is probably one of the few crimes where people blame the victim.

And so they need a safe place to be able to cry and vent and try to heal. They were victimized. And what has that been like for her relationship with her family? I know you spoke with her daughter, Jeannie Crist. How did she feel about this when her mom told her what happened?

So it's a lovely relationship to watch because her daughter says, I was mad. How could you do this? But it quickly switched because she right away thought, OK, I can't do that. She's already lost so much. Let me not be judgmental. And she quickly pivoted to say, Mom, what can I do to help you?

What I've learned about scam victims since all this has unfolded is that there is a great deal of shame and embarrassment, which is not helpful for her or me personally.

or for anybody else who's been a victim of this sort of thing. This is somebody who did not grow up in the digital age, somebody who's respected authority. You know, it's a very different mindset. Why should she have been so doubting? Also, she wanted to get sort of the word out to financial institutions that, yes, you are doing a lot of things, but perhaps there's more that you can do to protect the victims. ♪

For Judith now, what is her message that she wants to get out to other scammers and to other victims like herself? So I think she's got a couple of messages. One, a message to other victims. And she's so brave to come forward to say, I was scammed. I fell into the ether. This is what happened to me. I hope my story will save you.

to the financial institutions, do more, more education, more help, more training so that other people will not lose their money to scammers. And I think, you know, also don't try to do this alone. The moment someone says, don't tell anybody, it's a scam. And then I think lastly, for people who might be listening, thinking I can't be scammed. Yes, you can, she would say.

I just, I don't know. I just don't feel afraid about telling my story because I think it could have an impact. I feel like it could be a service. I'm not any different from anybody else. Michelle, thank you so much. You're welcome. Thank you. Michelle Singletary is the Post's personal finance columnist. Her series is called Scammed and it's available now. We'll put a link in our show notes so you can read the whole story.

That's it for Post Reports. Thanks for listening. If you want to show your support for the show, please subscribe to The Washington Post. Not only is it a great way to help us continue to do this kind of work, but you can now get access to Washington Post podcasts ad-free in Apple Podcasts. Subscribe in Apple Podcasts or by following the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Sharla Freeland. It was edited by Maggie Penman and Ted Muldoon, who also mixed the show.

Special thanks to Joshua Carroll and Amber Ferguson. I'm Martine Powers. We'll be back tomorrow with more stories from The Washington Post.