New Macs arrive, Apple Intelligence arrives, and Apple Vision Pro 2 doesn't, on the AppleInsider Podcast
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Hello, welcome to the open inside the podcast on William gallaga sponsor this week. Is masterclass actually a particular favorite mind details about that later, and i'm joined by wednesday hilly od, who this week has what I think is a particularly good topic for apple inside plus the extended edition of the podcast paid subscribers. Now is hello, but you suggested this while I was eating a biscuits.

So Frankly, I could just not so into, as yesterday, that chromes flew everywhere. IT was horrible. If anybody listen, could just put down their biscuits for a moment what's .

topic this week, we want to talk about what companies or apps anyway we would like to see apple purchase in the future. I think that would be a very fun topic considering the news that will get too later. Yeah but yeah, i'm a couple in mind that what mind seeing fAllen to apples per view anyway, if you haven't already.

you can get up side a plus by subscribing either to our patron ont or via apple podcast subscription links, both in the show is add IT would just be very good to have you with us and if you have already subscribed, thank you. Now news this week, slightly dominated by something that happened over there in america. Where's your kind of cost to me? What's the apple relevance to was being going?

Yes, no need to get into anything crazy here. We're not that kind of show, but if you'd like to talk to us about IT, you can always send us an email that's fine. Tim cook and many taxi OS did reach out to the winner of the presidential election and congratulated on him, which honestly is Normal.

I think it's pretty funny actually um every time this happens, everyone's shocked. They're all like all their boot liker or their they're laying the ground work for deal. It's just like it's it's the president when he elected though IT doesn't matter if you lock over now.

I mean, these companies rely heavily on government interaction, whether its regulation or through lobbying. But of course, they're going to court their favor. That's just what they do, especially these huge CEO. I don't I just don't see like tim cook protesting and sitting out talking to the president when so much of the business relies on a good interaction with the government. So I mean, I understand people.

The same thing happened with like biden and everything too and he went in twenty twenty is just like why why are these CEO talking to the president? It's because it's a business they have to interacts with these entities. It's it's Normal.

Ah so I just I find the outrage a little bit amusing every single time as if like that, C E O of the most profitable company in on the stage is just gonna fuse talks. The president. I I don't really stand what people want here, but that happened cool. I mean, i'm sure we're going to get more fun things like ten apple or maybe another tour of a texas facility, maybe not for a mac pro this time, maybe maybe the tora semi conductor fab and arizona or something that would be cool. But yeah.

go see general regular .

interactions like this and just ask people to, you know maybe settle down a little bit IT we did like him. I understand it's it's not fun for the people who didn't want that. But IT doesn't mean that like all of a sudden, apple, or like tim cook is this awful, terrible human being, whatever. I just don't understand the reaction.

right? I got take from over here. I didn't actually appreciate that there was outrage over this because my first thought when I heard about to cook saying this was, well, actually sorry, this might be a whole U.

S. U K. Thing in america. Are you familiar with? I think of the profumo.

A fair month, something not sure. Pronouncing that right. Bad in one thousand sixties. british. What the more I took about IT. The loud of you knowing IT at less so Mandy ice, David is as the famous part of IT. Is he unknown to your all in the states?

Not cover that, nor history class.

all right. Well, you love this. But I mean, compared today and incredibly, incredibly slight scandal. But IT was huge in the sixties, sex line to the party, ent, all this kind of stuff.

And David, who was on a model ders, and called up in all of this, what you got doorstep to something by the press, who said that lord asti would have been the person who was accused of all this, had denied having the fair with her. And he said, well, he would wouldn't. And that line has just run through politics ever since because, of course, that's what happens very yeah, that's enough politics less you find .

IT all on music. I mean, I again, I get IT sincere emails fine. I understand people are going to disagree and this is a very important situation. And we're not we're not going to get into IT here.

It's just the way z in which people react in the fever or that things happen and these situations will never not be somewhat amazing me, because it's just, I don't know, sit down, relax. What is this reaction? What is this um anger going to achieve beyond you your blood pressure being high? right? Just have some tea.

Well, I guess I like the two reference. Thank you. Throwing me a one where even i've hear in the U.

K. I'm awaiting IT interesting time. And I would like to get away from all of IT. So if let's leave all politics society and I said, took a about european union politics. Totally different, totally different, I think again, and even though I slightly close to you than you you know about history of this PC, you is apparently about to find apple or probably about to find find up for failure to complain with the digital markets act to which is actually something I think they ve been threatening for ages. But apparently .

now it's it's a big tea. This is just like the investigation in united states into apple being entire trust any day. Now they're going to announced the results of the investigate.

You just do IT you know if you're going, if you have all this power, you wrote this, the digital markets act, to give you all of this power, to find out to tend to twenty percent of companies annual profits or revenue, just do IT already. I mean, if you really want to exercise as power exercise that stopped with the idle threats because apple has obviously done what they're going to do. And from the first day of the dma and apple's controversial compliance that they did, which by the letter of the law, they did comply. It's just according to the eu watchdogs, apple did not comply with the spirit of the law, which is the issue that has let us through these months of backs and forest and apple changing its rules and widdle away at the edges to the point where apple has almost taken away every portion of everything that they announced initially except for the a fee that are going to charge and forget what it's called, but the court .

of noise is going .

to apply to one percent of developers and apples removed every portion of any hint of antistius ing rules. And yet still we're talking about a potential fine. I just do not understand what the E.

U. Wants at this point, so just find them. If that's what you want to do, just do IT. Because what is apples supposed to do in the situation?

Well, anything, whatever spot, if I tells them, could that be IT? No, this is getting apple stick into the letter of the regulations. Well, they would, wouldn't they? You see, once you've heard that race is really forever for IT, that's going to be going on.

And the au might actually be pausing in its contemplation of how much money can give apple by instead focusing on you at you over there. Corning, yeah, we're looking at you people to make glass. Maybe other people should make glass as well. This isn't IT the corning monopoly of smart phone screen market. I mean, if every sport friend make a bias from the same places because they get the best deal.

some other up incoming classmates er that's just angry that they can sell to apple. Like is is there a family business in the middle of downtown germany just begging to be the next samsung galaxy class cover? I I understand there's other classmates ers in the world on being sarcastic.

It's just I don't know corning has definitely monopolize the market. But I think this gets back to our earlier discussions of does success automatically mean regulation? Does this automatically mean monopolization? Is corning doing something here that isn't legal that or are they abusing their power? And that's where the investigation comes in.

The u hasn't done anything yet. To be clear, this is their opening investigation is they noticed that, oh, corning is everywhere. So maybe we should look into this, but they haven't determined IT to be an illegal monopoly or anything like that. So i'll see where IT goes.

I'll give them the benefit out, but i'm just the dma by how IT was written was meant to protect consumers from and give them a fair ability to make decisions and purchase products and have use of those products and install the software they want, right? It's kind of wide the billers and it's unspecific. And because of that, IT seems that we've been uneven.

And how they're handling each company, right? The way they are handling google is different from how they are handling apple and IT feels like it's all gonna to just blow up in the end because i'm not sure if it's the politicians. I'm not sure whats going on here. But IT all comes down to money and IT seems to be less and less about the consumer, but that maybe just my opinion.

Now I think the same, although I should qualify as a british man standing like is criticizing the european union precision and things, i'm actually in general very, very pro europe. And even in this, although I am quite stridently disagree wing on certain aspects of IT and the implementation of IT, I got that that the european union got laws in place where no one else has yet and everywhere else is trying.

So you baLance here. I mean, the united states was investigating apple for the same issues. I was.

I was the same thing, is just, what do you expect apple to do here? And I mean, I understand the problem, right? The world garden, the ecosystem. But if anyone else wanted to do what apple is doing, they should just do IT.

If if google, instead of racing to the bottom, made premium devices with a vertically integrated ecosystem and a locked in Operating system, they could just do that and compete on equal footing with apple. But none of these companies are willing to compete the same way apple does, and they're angry that they're not making the same profit. So they complained to the government so that they target apple and their business model.

Apple's business model was a success resoundingly across the globe. So we're going to punish them for IT. I I just I get when monopolies abuse their power. I understand to to to say I understand that apple has some problems without their handling their business for sure. But .

well, you and I had that appliance on the plus a few weeks ago, really dumb ing some of the bad things apple does, which happened to be also the week that I was broadcast back, engine room mysteriously failed to work. There's that certain .

things regulations should cover and do. But I do believe that this is not how I should be handled. And I think they're overreaching a little bit because, again, apples complying with the law but not in the way that they like IT and that didn't write the law Better.

That's that's my answer stopped like I don't if you want them to just make s open and distributed to android people, making that the look right. If you want the APP store to be free of anti steering and allow multiple external absolutes to be installed on IOS, make that the law, whatever IT is now doesn't say that it's very vague and very open to interpretation and that's why we keep having this conversation. It's just it's exhAusting. I get so tired of this regulation on sense because IT feels broken and the government that generally tries to regulate tech never understands. So that's .

shockingly true. Yes, on the one hand, I wanted say stop giving political ideas please but also i'm kind of feel Better about this because the next thing on just about um is regulation totally different though I don't understand how this works. The topic that was been going on this week as apple hit, everyone keeps saying apple has bought the pixel nature, and that's not strictly true.

Pixel nature has agreed to be acquired pending regulatory approval, and I don't understand what the regulatory approval is in there. I don't think pix metres of giggling tic developed at an excEllent one. So why would any regulator be that first.

how many step every company has to be approved? And even though we don't hear about every company apple buys, they buy, I don't know, one hundred and a year something like that. It's but of all these little companies, they acquire mostly the teams of the talent more and maybe a patent portfolio.

Um in this case, they're requiring the team specifically and they're going to own the assets of the APP. But the question is as well, the APP continue and I am not sure, but I think there's many ways this could go. Obviously, apple hiring pixel matter.

I think for me, I am excited because pixel matter is an excEllent APP IT. IT offers an amazing tools. Pixel matter pro on the mac is the go to editor that if I could have that on my ipad, IT would be a dream.

But for some reason they're only gonna photo major on ipad so far, which is basically a stooped up apple photos APP. So I wonder, and I do think the name al changes because this is just how apple does things like workflow became shortcuts. Dark sky just became part of weather.

I expect that this is just going to become part of photos in some ways. So photo matter might go away and become basically photos and maybe they'll get a little bit of the editing. You I maybe some of the filtering options.

I'm not sure the repair tool is actually really excEllent. The learning tools are really good. So photo major becoming part of photos, I think, makes a lot of sense.

I think that's just gonna en. The question in the air for me is what's gonna en to pixel matter pro because that is a photo powerhouse. I can compete with amazon tools like I would use IT over finite designer.

I use IT over um anything else. But I don't have access to ted on ipad. So I tend to use affinity designer when I need that kind of learning. Um editor, so what do you think gonna happen here?

Well, as I think you should say because um I mean not addicted to pick because I sume everybody is people that realize the company is an image may come has been run from seventeen years, they said. And they make we have a big committed pro and photo matter, but there is also pixel later. None prove that I think is still on the mac romano but is on the ipad.

And and it's fine, it's good. But IT isn't pixel matter pro. And you've said before how much you would love pixel pro to be on the ipad.

One of the things I thought i've got about this, maybe this is the chance maybe apple give IT the resources. When apple acquired dark sky, everything in dark sky fitted into weather. So IT just seemed inevitable that I would become weather and the dark skies, and that would go away.

And you know, there are other problems, because dark sky is also on android and pcs. And that that died, plus, a dark sky solved its weather data to dozens of other weather APP things, and they had to find a new source. So that was bad for the industry, but good for the weather up in this case.

I think this is like as there's a phrase, isn't there a saturation point? Maybe there's only so much a liquid can Carry. And I think if you put photo matter into photos just about work, but if you tried to put pixel a pro in there, it's just can not it's like IT is would be putting photoshop into I don't know what the equipment is photo into photo.

Let's go with that when into photos for IT. So pix meter, I don't think I will go in. That doesn't mean IT won't go away.

I know I quite like the idea that picks matter becomes part of the well, we still call IT the eyes work way to the apple hardly uses that term pages, numbers and keynote if they suddenly had one call to at our pictures or something like that, I was actually because I could work. Yeah, right? I loved up a chair at the time, but you know.

I went two ways, could go. I could either remain a separate APP, maybe could even retain pixelate pro IT could become a tagle and photos may be a promote where you just maybe there you click a button and IT turns on a like advanced editing sweet, which I still not think would fit inside photos because there's a difference here. So when you're editing a photo and or photo matter, there are similar applications you are editing.

You saturation, lighting, basic photos, things. It's basically like your taking IT to a darker room and changing specific portions of the image, right? Light, color, noise, sharpness, you can use your repair tool that kind of if you're editing a photo, that photos pretty much the main subject of the editor you're at applying filters, that is IT.

IT is a photo editor. What picks will made to pro is and why IT doesn't fit into the photos. APP is IT is a what you'd call like a pixel editor.

It's where the name comes from. Its you're going to have multiple layers. You can drop in objects.

You can replicate objects, dragged them around. It's this kind of vector tool in its own way. You can draw into the space.

You can do the same photo editing to different layers, you know, using the h sl tools. But you can also drop in shapes, you know add more images. Just there's there's so much to it's what you if you've seen photoshop, that's what photoshop is as well.

Like I said, definity designer. So it's just it's such a different paradigm and interaction that I can't see IT existing in photos without a breaking photos. It's just it's a different concept. I think photos would pair well with nap like this. So you would have the windows open side by side, but you would not put this system inside of photos.

I think this might be a good time to say buy picks on moto pro. So like back when I first started or at least when I was first aware of IT, I I don't know a nice way to say is basic, but are all right a cheap photoshop knock off. And I don't think that's unfair except ah it's so much more than that.

Now is I choose IT partly because IT has the benefit over adobe that it's a one time purchase rather than the subscription. And for what I need the subscription for doby just doesn't see economic. But also I just really like that.

You mention the affinity tools, and I think the closest to pixel ter is affinity photo. And I for some reason, I have a block on that when he feels very complicated to me. Where is picks only a pro? I just I get IT and I I mean to to photo matter.

I mean, I think there is a layering feature in a few photo. But finally, designers is what i'm thinking of, what I think of pixel matter. There are so many .

apps yeah that got to mean I absolutely, totally love affinity publisher as just we're going off on to a favorite apps now by all the apps. That's what i'm saying. Well, they're still here, but have at this it's not good enough to just buy on up.

You have to have something to run IT on. And well, last week we got the announcement of three new things to run dom on. And this week, actually, as we record this other day this progress because at the first period, I mac, mac mini and macbook pro m four versions are arriving in people's hands.

But that also means theyve been arriving, review his hands for at least a couple of days. And there is a round up often. And you were looking at a mac mini, have you been following what's going on with people's opinions of the new .

just deliver IT? I mean, there is no doubt in my mind that this is going to be the winter amongst all of the new max, but it's just adorable. It's it's small, has an excEllent port selection.

I mean, what what can you do here? You can power up for thousands of the hollers into this crazy little machine. I mean, it's i'm excited for IT for sure.

It's funny, isn't there? He took about IT with obvious glee. And so does everybody reviewing at all of them.

Just I I mean, there's Better be that wants to say is just another mac mini or it's just another mac even I think that but still you get caught up in it's so small and so powerful and the Price is such a good deal for IT that yes, that's what everybody say. That's the one to buy except people been using the new imac. And I love this one because a slightly more variety here.

I think he was the verge who said it's a nice computer, it's like shrug kind of thing, but then went into our android when he performs very well, fine. And they talked about the colors. Everyone talks about the colors.

And i'm really up for this because I think you ve got this in front of you, your face for ten hours a day or something. A nice color is a good thing, but it's quite funny, I think, how. Excited everybody is about the vibrancy because I just seen hugged her new pink one.

And somebody, somebody was trying at the yellow one, a cover IT win. no. And I personally wouldn't gone for yellow, but they loved IT. Sorry me, i'd buy blue, but the colors are great.

And can you believe what mess we need to get serious, serious technical and need specifications? What's the pantone number for each of these colors? Kind of things? Do you know I should talk that after them in the show and what I see? What do I do or not? I do remember people testing to try to match the color of some iphone was at the purple iphone.

And finally, N K B H D just did a pantone reading government about something and worked there. But that just leave the macbook pro, which that I mean, I don't want say anybodies giving anything bad review. I don't think I read a single negative review about any of these machines, which is little unusual.

But of the three announcements, the macbook prose getting the least prayers. But IT seems for an odd reason. It's like, well, i've don't mean to get keep going back to manager Davis, but he would be Better, wouldn't IT.

That is basically the the tone of some of them is the best network ever made. But due what else what they are going to do, it's this much faster, but IT always is and are a lot of complaints. I'm reading about how the design is exactly the same, very, very nearly exactly the same as the previous ones.

And but then everybody accepting that the design works. So what can you do? Poor l netbook pro is not getting .

the love that I should pretty. I mean, the ipad many seven is identical except for a chips that change and I didn't get anything else. The map pro did get in a texture and a couple of other small upgrades.

But overall, yes, IT looks identical on the outside case. And I don't know why reviews do this. Maybe it's to reflect consumers because consumers at the same time do look at things the same well, looks the same doesn't IT.

But alternatively, I think you have to consider there's really not much else you can do, especially in a laptop form factor what you going to do at a touch bar. I mean, now be crazy. Witness.

yes, as someone was arguing that the the inverted tea shape of the araxes was a paying because it's so small and so nonstandard, I never really noticed that myself, but I see .

that around. I guess I think the it's a human nature and i'm actually putting the other in ipad many seven review right now. I'm discussing a lot of these concepts, but I do think it's human nature to look at something and say, well, that's boring.

Nothing changed about IT and then you look at a new design, you're like, oh, wow, it's so shiny you knew. And of course, that's that's just how our brains work. But I think a part of being reviewer, you're supposed to kind of go against that and say, well, we know it's the same on the outside, but this is what's different on the inside.

And the in four line is incredibly powerful. But I think arguably, so isn't the m three and the m two and the m one. And the question is, is who should be upgrading? And I think that's where people are coming down on the map pro of yeah they could build this.

Of course they did. It's faster, it's Better. But why why you know do we need an annual macbook cycle? Do you remember when we when intel was um always bad and never was able to come out with chip sets on a regular interval? So we would just kind of wait around until a man appeared.

An apple, yes, finally a and now it's just clockwork and everyone just like, who cares? I remember when apple silicon first arrived to people like, yeah, we can finally have a consistent release cycle. This is so exciting and now we've consistently cycle of people like this is so boring. It's just like, what do you want? I don't know.

I think I got my fourteen inch mapper pro and then one in part, through a grant from the arts council of england for a particular project, was doing what they 而 funded， was the then current 3 inch macbook pro。 But I was so sure there were so many rooms that are four teen nature was coming that I held on and held on. I need be more expensive, I know.

But as IT turns out, an amazing amount of money towards IT myself. But still, IT was a nice grand for this, and was IT three days before I had to file the final financial report of everything I spent on the project finally brought you out. Not goodby. Quite tense in those days.

It's just funny. But I don't reviewers sometimes forget their job. I think they I think they spend too much time looking at themselves.

And what they want to do is a PC or computer or why they went upgrade and they forget that they buy everything, they review everything and apple needs to tell them to keep all of these machines because it's expensive because they they buy everything um where as for the consumer, they don't buy everything. A lot of people are still sitting on that m one like me and you. We still have the m one models of these max, and we're looking at same.

Well, maybe maybe it's time and even us where they were extreme nerds. Let's think about just everyone else. People just go by computers and why shouldn't apple just upgrade the chip every year? And then when someone needs a computer and goes on bias when they get the best possible chip, it's not that IT needs to be this dramatic upgrade or this Steve jobs to walk out and pull something out of an envelope every six months.

It's we don't need that kind of hype. I don't know what has maybe apples done IT to themselves, maybe with their own hype cycles. I think other companies have definitely done IT.

Google is that comes to mind with their DJ sets and loud music during their events, but they really want people to be excited about their products. And then the product they announce is the same product with a Better chip and everyone just like, huh that's IT ah right yeah and I think that's perfectly fine. The alternative is no update.

So of course, everyone wants to a redesign and a redesign will come. We will see a new macbook perform factor at twenty thirty, right? But we'll see an ipad mini eight or nine with a new design.

It's inevitable apple does iterate on these designs, but the expectation that every single upgrade needs to be this incredible design alteration, this thing only apple can do, it's just not tenable. Sounds sustainable. It's it's bad for the environment, right? There is so many reasons why you shouldn't redesign a product every two years.

I mean, they built the thing. Should they not be committed to IT for a while? At the of the day, people just buy computer sometimes and apple having the best possible chips that available the market and every one of their computers on an annual cycle works for the market and it's best for the consumer who IT doesn't matter what the reviewer.

Thanks in the end of the day of, well, my m thread works. I'm not going to be in for it's not for you. Apple didn't build this for you.

youtube. They built IT for literally the rest of the planet that buys these in droves. So I think the cells speak for themselves. This model works, whether or not people think it's boring.

Yeah, I see your point, but I raise you that every PC manufacturer has a radically and innovative and brilliant new design every six to eight months. So I know I could not think of A P C manufact o. Remember the .

cows?

Figure, yeah, I remember dell being presented as the absolute model, how to greater business. And then IT shot itself in the foot several times, was actually the presentation with somebody put out them as this thing, and I was waiting for them to say, and then they shot themselves. They, but they didn't, because they hadn't theyve repair their speech ten years before.

Never updated IT. So I asked a pointed question. But that's a long one thing about design. Then you saying about review is not being like real people.

And and I ve ve seen that a lot, not just in hard ware maxed, but across entertainment reviews. And I think that surprised me when I was reading reviews of the macbook pro was a couple of really vainly angry comments about the note. No, I mean, that seems very old news to me.

But also, I look right now my macbook screen, and what I think is that apple stretched the screen up on two corners. I don't think of IT as theyve double notch into IT, but apparently distract some people. And this is the thing that pretermit me as the word wonder.

Reviewers said that the note at hidden a couple of dialogue boxes now, a hidden dialog boxes at least more than once during my testing. I don't know how you could get a dialog x underneath the notch. So am I just thicker as this nonsense?

The notch gets clicks. It's a good shocker value on youtube or tiktok. That's all a lot of media consumptions going this way. You have a quarter of a million second to get someone to watch your six second video on tiktok.

Um so you have to go in there and say, hey, you viewer, this is the worst thing that ever happened that killed my grandmother is the notch on the macbook pro. It's so bad, it's bad. And then it's actually not bad.

They're just exaggerating to you get to drive clicks. I honestly believe that anyone who tries to seriously say the note is a bad thing is just lying for college. I genuinely believe that because it's such non issue, IT is not an isu. I don't know how to say IT.

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So shop insider one five. And thank you domestic s for supporting the apple insider podcast. It's like passage is lower than is not actually that's A A couple of different names. I don't know that the U K again thing but bash lawyer is the rule of journalism that says if a headline is a question, the answer .

is yes. so.

So i'm a way that this is gonna n bad because we only just got this nice, these three new nice max, and we waited for quite a while for them and it's all very exciting. And then they're I am indeed antonona go on to yeah but the next thing is still yeah but the next thing is, are more yet again rumors of a lower Price apple vision pro? He said, you are mr. Apple vision pro to me. I don't mean to put all I burn any but I have done is there any more questions in the low across rumors and the delays to apple vision pro two or something this week compared to, say.

put a stake in the ground here and just say this is just wrong, this is incorrect. So main chick go for a while has not been on his game. Something happened to his supply chain partners, I don't know, but he's become a blogger more than a actual analyst in the last couple years.

I don't mean that a dragon ory way. It's just he stepped away from publishing his secret notes on a industry website to using medium dotcom to write his opinions. It's a very different game. And in that as we've been pay attention to him, he's been slipping on certain things.

Different, different ideas just don't are not the most accurate as they used to me, as some of them are reported as news as leaks but they're actually his opinions and this one appears to be like him saying, oh, this is a supply chain but he says as I understand IT production of the cheap er requisition proves been delayed beyond to twenty twenty seven four a while now I so there are so many things here, the cheaper apple vision pro is the next headset. But to say that IT is delayed beyond twenty twenty seven, that is three years from now so beyond that, even two twenty twenty eight, twenty twenty nine meaning apple just cannot find a way to make this heads at less expensive. And the argument here is seemingly according to comments and replies to this, is apple can't make IT less expensive enough so that even if apple made IT less expensive, IT would still be more than a thousand dollars, more than three times the Price of most editors.

And apple just is seriously considering not even bothering with a cheaper headset because it's not in the competitive market, which is just not how apple Operates. That's complete baloney. Apple loves releasing things that are three times more expensive than the market.

They released something twelve times more. The market is all the apple vision pro. So I don't understand this report other than that being salacious enough to be reported and not not trying to keep means equal anything.

I just I think it's a por take on information that he has on hand and my belief is also just to say that in five uh apple vision pro uh successor that you know it's going to be the pro point five or whatever I think we're gona hear oh twenty twenty five until he gets to twenty twenty five that are going to say, well, suddenly delayed because my call for that has always been it's coming in to late twenty twenty six. I know I don't have any information other than got feelings and other rumours, but i'm standing by that if IT changes great, i'm surprised but I get to be wrong. But i'm i'm gonna tell the listeners here maybe maybe hold out a little longer.

I think the next apple vision pro, twenty late twenty twenty six at the earliest. Now this rumor of the cheaper one just disappearing or getting pushed back several years. I'm not buying IT.

I'm still writing that line that we could hear alongside the successor vision pro. We could hear IT in late twenty six instead of the vision pro, but IT just been pushed out because of somewhere pricing concern. I just I think that's just completely opposite of what apple Normally does. And the reporting I think is bad on this.

What you say that about a man cheko who used to definitely an almost like he said and now blogs i've seen that sometimes he's very clear this is from a supply chain at the time he doesn't say anything and you assume its his own trap lation been on a lot years of experience for IT, but recently he just seem to not quite bother to say which is which and IT leaves you hanging for IT. But there are other people saying similar things.

I just a freely with this. I don't understand a lot of things on reading the publication of the election, which included some very technical china ical to me anyway about types of display. And if thing to build down to that its possible apple will accept i'm actually yeah i'm mixing up things because that similar stories about OLED displays on the net book pro and cheaper displays on the apple vision pro.

Apple vision pro story was that they are working and might be accepting quite low resolution to lesson half the resolution for IT. And at the same time, separately, apple might accept a an OLED macbook k air screen, which is not as good now let's go eventually is expected to come to the macbook pro. Is there an argument that apple is accepting less and less in terms of quality from people rather than .

later example of that, that exists today? Um so these are all speculation. As on everywhere apple investigates a lot of different ideas. They're obviously investigating cheaper products. Does that mean it's ever gonna depends on the company. Other tim cooks leadership, i've very seriously doubt IT he would rather wait until components become less expensive and chase something more premium rather than send out something now that is much cheaper. We saw that with apple vision pro. We saw IT with different products like the ipad moving to oh, so it's just one of those things I don't apple doesn't need to cheap in itself is their place in the market that suggests apple is doomed or making less money because they're not cheaping them.

This you probably but they probably almost certainly wrong as well as the apple is doomed kind of thing. But you just in there the testing things and what we know they are, I mean, a is actually literal evidence in the thousands of patents of sorts of things, an obvious ly testing. But actually also in this week, we've learned that apple is using some sort of internal study, apparently, to find out whether people are interested in smart glasses or things. And I have a problem with that because if it's true that is happening now, I feel like apples had like ten years.

okay. This survey is it's IT happened with apple vision pro right before apple vision pro came out. So take that for what you will.

Apple surveyed apple survey employees to find out what they thought of VR headsets, and we don't know what the purpose of the survey was. I don't think IT was to design the apple vision. Proke is at that point would have ready been designed.

so. I think the same situation here was the VR air glasses, whatever that is apple glass, we've dumped them. I think we need to come up with the new name.

And so with the apple glass rumors, it's the same is with the apple vision pro, with the internal survey basically asking, hey, these are what facebook meters doing. This is what H X real reality is doing. What do you think ah they're doing here that works? That doesn't work.

I don't know what this means for the production timeline of these augmented reality glasses, but I think apples, it's just an investigation. Hey, what what should we be targeting here? And how long do we need to be working on this? So rumors are still completely guesswork for these glasses.

They could come out next year. They could come out in twenty thirty. We have no idea. So I I don't think this means anything is just progress continues.

Apple is working on smart glasses that will eventually run vision O S, the same as apple vision pro. And I think you're gonna be sold intendo. I don't think it's going to be a replacement.

Still a curious thing of adding a survey at this point. But you know, we don't know what they're after really. Maybe they just want to a really cracking marketing quote or two that what doesn't tend to do that our own named engineer says, doesn't really cup up free after the bear.

But this is again, we're talking about things that we know they going to happen in some form at some way, but we can actually pull this back to because I think it's something this week was actually you've mentioned before. I can't refit and already come. You just you nuts here.

The the ability on the apple vision pro to use something like my ultra wide Green display for the mac. Sorry, I need to explain you. A mac is a .

brilliant computer one day. I not, I will not need for this one day. No, so this is interesting. I've tested out once, um cool. I I love IT.

I think this is what we talked about forth, many turning into little portable guy with a battery, that kind of stuff. This is really interesting as a way to interact with the mac. So virtual market display bringing in in its fork regular, what you'd say, studio display dimensions.

You can expand IT to be the size of forty foot window above a lake. Sure, but it's still that rectangular imac style display. Now you can make IT a wide display with the resolution of two four k display side by side, or explain that all the way to ultrawise.

And the resolution of the ultra wide is so wide it's something it's like on a note ten thousand pixel wide by something long. It's ridiculous. It's more than actually the resolution that is available in the apple vision pro, but IT works because of vivid rendering.

So wherever you're looking inside of the monitor, this ultra wide monitor is getting rendered at what your eyes perceive as a fork resolution. So basically, you're always getting a four k monitor, doesn't matter how big you make IT, and you can make this thing really big. So I did.

The alter wide setting made IT as big as possible. Push IT away from me, and we am. You have to craig your neck all the way to the left, all the way right, all the way up, all the way down, to see the entire monitor.

IT is ridiculous. I had to walk across the house, from my office to my living room to the forest corner of the house, look turned around and look back at the monitor in order to fit all of IT into a my view finder. It's ridiculous.

But the thing i've been hearing about this is not only IT yet this is good, but also all the weight was before. That was terrible. IT was so crut, you couldn't see anything. So was there any truth in that that IT was rubbish before and only now is OK.

I'm using IT now. I'm i'm looking at the regular size display to record this podcast for my vision pro and IT looks like my studio display just floating an air and I late vongo whatever like it's it's a monitor. I think people it's a recency bias.

Maybe all of this old thing that looks so crummy next to this new thing ah now the regular size is fine. Honestly, i'm going to keep using IT uh because I want IT next to other windows and not taking over my entire vision because it's very rare that i'm using just a mac. I'm usually using like the vision for apps like right now, I have safari and notes open in vision pro, not in the back. so.

right. I have two max in front of maybe i'm making up for you. That's what IT is on compensating for.

You're like .

a just have you got any further with the the thinking .

of trading IT in somehow or something? I can't compete with that. I don't know I don't know how i'm going to sell this thing unless I sell like five hundred dollars, and that just hurts me internally to do that.

So i'm just not really i'm not sure what i'm going to do, but I do intend eventually selling IT. I didn't need to make many on the release day like this macbook process of doing IT forming. But the goal is eventually in the next couple of months, i'm going to sell them back but pro and get them back money. absolutely.

Although for me, one of the reasons for having two maxes that I have a occasions over the amy over a long time when the main computer on using has died, for whatever reason, being able to instantly the switch to a different one has been how I ve learned enough money to pay further repair to fix the first one that might actually be, I might be projecting that memory from working on pcs to, because I don't think if I do not go that .

badly wrong. And one mac, I just IT IT hurts when you pay for something. I know IT was three years ago, right? Twenty twenty one was when the emc, but POS came out and I got the in one pro.

I pay twenty one, twenty two hundred dollars for this five hundred and twelve gig in one pro x book pro sixteen years around and now the market might let me sell IT for seven, eight hundred dollars. And that just I don't like IT. I never like selling things like that.

But you could look at this way, you would never be able to merge. You would as say never be able to buy a mac for that little. But if everybody don't know that little, you would.

So that doesn't work. okay? I ignore that brilliant financial I should say there's no financial .

methodology for selling something is if I can't get enough out of IT that i've be willing to pay to keep IT, then i'm just gonna pay to keep IT more or less. But in this case, I I would not there be no benefit to me keeping IT. So I I might as well just get whatever money I can. I know even if it's five, six hundred dollars and I cry a little little and at least go towards the new mac, many of some kind, I still have decided if it's going to be in for and for pro, but we will figure .

that out also. I suppose you'd be making someone happy, someone who would appreciate on the my problem more than you do. Yeah.

I find someone who .

needs IT. Okay, we came dancing around different types of hard way here and things now, but back to software for a bit. And there is, I believe I am sing an improvement in theory. But I mean, I could be imagining IT because all other real works, suppose be not coming yet. I just IT hasn't.

There are certain irritations in theory that IT hasn't done for me in a couple of weeks, like when you asked for a three minute time and you watch sudden starts going to nine, nine or twenty six minutes, four days or something that hasn't happened to me in at least two weeks. And I have updated betas on everything. But apparently siri is stepping for with no, we're found again the stage where this is the next bit apples looking at and they're looking at IT by giving developers aps hooks into IT that they can use for things. Do have any idea yet what they will let people well.

so first, all the new series stuff is interesting because everyone gets IT wrong. Even the tech people have been getting IT wrong. The only thing that's different right now in eighteen dot one eighteen thousand two is the animation, the ability to correct yourself while speaking in general, understanding of of queries and the ability to continue a query.

Uh, so conversationally ask a question to ask another question. Those have been improved over time. Those some of those existed before. But now apple is openly saying this is Better with apple intelligence but that is IT.

There's no new quote quote A I powered theory and there almost won't be um I think a lot of people thought that um apple intelligence would just become part of theory. And in a way that is because I can call out to apple intelligence through that program, right when you're doing type to theory or using your voice and it's doing a request that is apple intelligence. It's a very specifically basically, it's like opening the apple intelligence APP more or less so like the theory that in your home part is still the same old theory, right?

IT doesn't have access step intelligence. So like the server side, which is what theory is syria is not actually really on your device. There is some on device theory.

This is why it's so confusing um but the server side has not changed and probably won for a while. What is changing is how well you can perform, what IT understands. And part of that is this API system. Apple tensions exist for ages, how things communicate with each other across the device.

But apples created a new way for apple tense to tie in to apple intelligence, to give IT on screen recognition of what is happening inside of an APP telling IT, this is a media APP, or this is a book, this is A P. D F. This is a website.

It's able to share more information and data about what's being viewed. So I can pass the Better on the other end and decide whether or none that needs to go to apple or ChatGPT or what have you. It's already possible to do this in IOS a little bit. Apple has IT in some of their applications. If you sell, if you do type to syria or whatever why you're on a saari web page phone and .

say what is this .

IT will use the weapons that you're viewing to send information to apple intelligence or ChatGPT um and you can actually controlled the prompt and eighteen thousand two to say send a screen shot of a viewing or send the entire web page of what on viewing, for example. So that's the kind of stuff that we're getting into. It's onna.

Start understanding what is happening where maybe you'll be maybe you're a chrome user and google could build that into chrome so you could send the entire web page in chrome they are reviewing, for example. Or if you in a recipe APP, you could do something with that, right? There's ways this can work using the API system.

I realized, actually, I just liked to you, I said that syria hasn't been annoying. And in fact, it's been annoying in a brand new way. I think you love this.

I D love anybody else. This is when i'm driving. So driving down the road, yeah, I got car play on yeah.

Is playing a this podcast, for example, and text message comes in. I've see volume dips on the podcast. IT pulls away and incomes a message. But just every now and again, what I hear is serious saying time tim cook, whatever in the group says. And then IT reads out what tim cook is directly said to me but instead of actual words in english, it's percent one thousand nine nine dash uh, examination, mark streak, asteroid k something and I assume somebody was swearing at me, but it's just like a decoded message, almost like it's giving me the asking values for each character in the version. And IT goes on and on for so long, and you don't know that you've had that wonderful experience is .

IT IT can't to be .

can IT yeah things I have to pull over, stop the car to check what the message was actually IT was swearing. So, you know, I could have just Carried on. But bigger, it's an illusion then to me that otherwise serious improving .

in the technology, the ChatGPT ash part of this. So apple intelligence as an a large language model being applied to syria, IT people expect IT to be some sort of magical cure all, that it's gona somehow become hyper intelligent, able to do all kinds of stuff. IT still needs information, and that information is very localized. Apple hasn't given a world information. It'll have to call a ChatGPT.

If IT needs anything like apple intelligence doesn't know what an iphone is unless so, then let me contradict myself unless it's specifically targeting apple's new help system, which is part of apple intelligence, where you can say, hey, tell me about this apple product and I will bring up health pages that IT has been fed into. So in the chapin GPT world, if you're a user there, you might be aware of this thing where you can get these, they call them GPT, their smaller models inside of the model. And that's basically how apple has built apple intelligence there.

The entire model is apple intelligence. And then there is all these little helper models throughout the system. When you talk to the jeep, the apple intelligence about apple specific information about helping you clean your device, you're talking to a helper application inside of IT that is specifically trained to be a helpful tool.

If you're talking to riding tools, that is a help for application that has been taught to be a helpful riding tool. So when you're talking to theory is been IT is a portion of the apple intelligence algorithm that has been taught to be a smart t assistant, but IT still doesn't have access to the entire width m breaths of information on the web. That's what has to pass information to uh, a google search or to ChatGPT that isn't going to magically go away.

But I can summarize some of the stuff coming in and instead of saying, well, I found these websites, you can say, well, these websites summarized, tell me this information that's a difference and it's going to be infinitely useful and in syria will be Better. But I wonder if people have expectations that is going to be some huge magical difference that like it's gona suddenly be Better at everything because it's somehow quent, quote, intelligent. And as i've said before, remember, apple intelligence is not intelligence.

So not I mean artificial intelligence just in general, IT is not an intelligent technology. Can think so. Whatever expectations you have, maybe temperate them a bit because i'm just not really sure what people are they are expecting.

But the people i've talked to have these very unrealistic wild ideas about what it's supposed to be doing. And it's just not that the apps are going to be cool and it's going to be very useful. It's what's going to eventually allow you to say, what is my mom or I think at the airport and it's going to pull information from my message and mail and combined at all, it's actually funny.

This system, this appendant system, we might actually see a portion version of IT in IOS eighteen dot two when IT releases. So a small portion of this might actually release early the eighteen four versions. The one that lets you pull from not on screen apps.

This system is being built now that we're talking about is for onscreen data only, so we could see the on screen version of this launch. And eighteen, not to. And that will be interesting.

Well, this is going to be can open worms everywhere. But i'll tried as IT quickly because you just say that about the different version of eighteen. I was eighteen.

I'm on the beats test for eighteen point tube. I am in the U. K. Even though I have set my region to the us. So that I can use our intelligence features and things, there are still some things i'm not getting.

But one of the things I was very keen to try out, I was the new apple pro hearing test features, which I know are in eighteen point one, but they are not in my copy of eighteen point too, I assume, is because the different things are being developed at different times. And when IT becomes publicly available, eighteen two will have that subsumed into IT. Is that senior? Am I in fact somehow messing up something?

But these things, everything, I think maybe a different the release for eighteen, that one that enable the feature is was internally ahead of the a current beta. And so the next beta would have all of the released features of eighteen, not one baked into eighteen thousand two, right? They they tested in parallel, and but there one step different from each other a lot of the time.

And because eighteen thousand two can have features that haven't released yet in one thousand and one, for example, so they would have to. Add those back in retroactively once eighteen nine one launches. Its a lot of fun i'm sure being internal apple yeah the whole thing with apple intelligence I think is interesting. And I I wanted to ask about um have you been playing with visual intelligence more or have you tried, uh, je oji or image playground in those features?

I wasn't not funny. I haven't tried energie, I suppose because I just I don't for messages I used like those word things I never think about but yeah just the day there's a hit song is only written in em. Talk to me then.

Okay, also, i'm in the roman employe. What did they do? They really Melody basically called with something else, but is very magic and civilization diet. So I might be blinding IT. there. I have used image playgrounds and and there are some things I think it's it's really well, say the way they came to, I was pretty, I don't be useful, but I was fun to try.

I had a happy hour trying different things but nothing are they actually subsequently used anywhere? Where are specially intelligence because of this thing being on the different rates? I forgot special intelligence in eighty two, and I had to take photograph electricity meter, set a thing going on with a provider.

And I have must have cough or hesitate, because I pushed a button, the a camera robot, for too long. And inside of taking the IT told me what an electric meter was. And since that happened, i'm addicted to IT checking out.

Everything is quite funny when it's totally wrong, but also really good when it's great. I was working around her like a garden. And in theory, I sounded so informed because of visual intelligence, but because, Peter, again, different content, this IT was given me all the american names for flowers.

And people will give me funny looks, because I apparently flowers have different names in different countries. Who would I knew these things? But we have you become obsessed with via intel, I think .

visual intelligence, an interesting tool. I haven't found many uses in my life just yet, but I will say I think maybe I mentioned this on the show before, this this stage of food norms as an excEllent use of artificial intelligence. I think they're using ChatGPT inside their APP to capture a photo of your food, and IT analyzes IT, fetches IT what IT thinks that is, using image recognition, and then analyzes the names of the foods that it's come up with to come up with recipes, and then uses those recipes to generate what IT thinks the calorie content and fat content of that is.

And then logs IT to food norms for the apple health APP and IT is an absolutely phenomenal use of the technology and I think will be a perfect example of something that could be baked to, say, visual intelligence through one of these apps in the future. Rather than passing an image to google image search, I could pass its directly to food norms and say, hey, go ahead and analyze this and says, my lunch and then one click, bam, here's my food. Now it's log done.

That's what this stuff is about. And I wanted to bring you up because i've always been down on this technology because people expect IT to take over the world. It's a good technology for what it's used properly.

When you use a hammer on a nail, IT works and IT works great. When the technologies used correctly, like in that example, IT works great. And i'm excited for more applications like that in the future, and I think apple intelligence enables that. so.

I can remember a baby c drama that had somebody who account, who has meant to be over wait. I mean, cat on T, V, barely noticed that they are or not, but he went to put you eat mars, borrow or something, a chocolate of some description, and the phone blips and said, no, you shouldn't and I looked to that and angered me that he could be so stupidity wrong.

But at least you know, there's a possibility that the thought of mentioning chocolate, I would like what you just said, as long as I could edit the details to remove an invention, of course, chocolate. So right, I think i'm revealing a lot there. And anyway, one thing I want to say about up inside, you've mentioned this before about leaving us five style reviews.

And I love five star reviews, but we do get a range of them. And i'm quite this just be a thing in the BBC. Well, this isn't like a real world is really not written in the producers guidelines for him.

But there was a general perception when I was there that if you were getting an equal number of complaints from you know left and right politically, and if you were being praised and criticised factually equally, then you must be doing something right, which I think is dispute able but in this case, um you found one review waiting for us. I found another D, D, A. you.

I think we accept all reviews here. It's fine if you don't want to leave a five star of, leave the one star review and will still like it's. It's fine.

As I said before, honestly, I read all reviews and I try, I examine them. And if it's something that needs to be addressed or changed, I addressed to change IT. But if I think it's nonsense, it's nonsense.

But it's still worth hearing your opinions because they might help us address the show. But go, it's deep all out there. I write .

to all of the reviews so you see that's how that work. But yes, I am. So I could you say that that is not really struggling with those something.

They do what .

he said left you review, sing so boring. No one wants to hear about an intended poke on. They put me to sleep.

That was the summary, but of the review is more of a paragraph. But well.

where were we edition? Do an apple, an intelligence on this and drink IT down? Oh, okay.

but but that's what I said that basically know other information was in that paragraph. I could go read the full thing if you really want me too but basically, yeah they would just like no one wants to hear about pokey mom, this is so boring that you guys put me to sleep um that kind of stuff and it's okay. We were not talking about pokey moon just to talk about IT.

IT was about the apps that we're releasing, the tinder u we're releasing a lot of apps are very popular. Pokemon go was a phenomenon. And any time the intended is anything, and I always advise its news, I think, uh IT just happens to be news that I enjoy because I enjoy pokey on.

But um I I understand that maybe you don't come the up inside of pocket to hear about things like that. But apple insider as a whole, as a publication, is a tech adjacent show. IT is an apple adjacent show, but is still attack a jacket website.

We still cover any news that could be parallel to apple. And I think an APP launching on the APP store is pretty as parallel you can get to apple and a, as my lovely editor and friend mike worthy would say, we don't make the website for you, uh detail. And so there will be things in the show may be on upon side the world page that not every ones to hear about or read. But there is a lovely skip thirty seconds button built into every podcast.

Don't tell people that one day I need to say there because I think actually i've been a bit unreasonable in this. I've kind of exploited the fact that I get to actually talk to you on this. I come to apple inside the podcast very often, knowing there's a new thing that intended to comment i'm interested enough to know more about, even though I wouldn't bother playing the games.

And I know, you know, so I get really keen to ask you these things and I might well lead you down, you know, not so much road, more a corridor or something for IT. So I will watch my selfishness of that. But I would point out that anybody listening to email you directly and asked the to the same thing if I actually a before I mentioned the opposite review, the very nice review. How can people find you to ask you things I ask you for myself.

I shut IT down but I do think this one was little on the sillier side. So excuse my reaction but um yeah no thanks you. And please, as always, anyone listening you can write their view, will read IT here on the show.

We're happy to hear your opinions um I just I think we do a pretty good job here if you think you're alling asleep maybe thought a different podcast but I know what you um if but you guys want to find me, if you want to leave me an email or nai email uh you can always find my email to top of any article of written, click the email button um it's wesa apple insider dot com or you can find me a massed on them at hilly tech i'm there quite often talking about nonsense around tech and probably poking on as well. And yeah, there's not much else that i'm doing on the internet. I have this little blog thing that I try to pretend that i'm actually writing sometimes, but otherwise, yeah, not really much. You can just find me an apple insider.

Actually we must a link to your blog because i've been reading that enjoying IT. One thing you didn't mention there because you doing much on IT is twitter. I am still around a twitter on. I'd like many people i've wondered.

But one reason they was actually, this week, tony Fisher on twitter left a nice message saying, in this exciting time for all things apple, i've discovered a must listen every week, honest analysis and topical tech manner from William gallagher and where helio, thank you study that actually really brighten. no. But now, apart from apple side, the plus of the save should beyond in Justin moment, I think you should say that's IT for this.

This, oh, I need you got away with that, didn't I? That's a very good point. Well, twitter, I suppose A W uglier. I am not on there as much as I used to be used obsidian with IT, but i'm still their email is probably the best a William at apple cided outcome or I do have a youtube channel that which is apple based mostly, but really for writers as take the eight keys on youtube and that as neck well over ten thousand. Srs, make me very happy to thank you for letting me plug that in there.

Seriously, that this has to be the end website posts because we ve got get on top inside plus and i'm dying to here what you think about that as well. Thank you very much for listening. And actually thanks for a sponsor.

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