614: Don't Puke for the Show
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I am in a good mood now. This has not been the case for the entire day.

I gotto tell you, you have been slightly more absent in slack over the last several months, at least in our little of corner of slack, which is fine. You are a busy man and lots of things to do. But you were very chatty this morning. And if if I may be so bold, pretty fired up.

Alright, so what I had do this morning was work around some swift U I. bugs.

That's never going to put anyone in a good mood.

right? And these bugs involved the handling of inapt purchases.

Oh, that's that's a double wai as they stay in the business.

that's no good at all. Any developers out there you've done in that purchase testing, you know like in that purchase testing is painful um that you especially testing subscriptions and the handling of those transactions, it's just is very painful. It's very tedious to do IT reasonably well and in a reason on the time you know, with the bunch of test devices.

So I know my death was like covered in iphone and like charging them up, booting them up. I have all these lightning adapters everywhere like you dealing with all that um and then getting passed all the different set up prompts and everything for some of them that needed to be updated and stuff anyway. So dealing about that because the way a lot of testing works is like you can like you know start a purchase or and like test IT up.

Then if your APP doesn't process that purchase correctly, for you to be able to change something and rebuild IT and try and again you have to either weight like four hours um for for all the renew the fake renewal to go through for your annual purchase or tried again on a totally new device or erased the device and start and reset IT up. And there are tools to attempt to mitigate this in eco like a store kit um debugging thing which I swear I got so I open that I didn't know this was there I discovered at this morning as I searching for alternative and I opened IT up. It's like a little window and you build and run your APP and this window has nothing in IT at just empty list. And for a split second when I build a run over cw shows up in that list and then a second dator IT disappears.

I've had pretty good luck with that, to be honest. Not to say it's perfect by any means, but IT typically works all right for me. And if if I recall correctly, because I went to this code in a bit, nothing is in that list to your point until you initiate some sort of purchase some a little surprise that you saw anything .

flash up from a very interesting well, so this this is like with an active like a currently still renewing test .

description though. So I don't know, like that count. And second, a little a bit of a race. I had the same thing recently. I forget what I was trying to do is trying to do something where apple sends you their own little notification that shows you a little map. This has a big thing, uh, I was trying to do a thing, was going to do a thing on windows H I always doing, I was trying to get eyeblink d thinking on windows with the with the I cloud. Think of other with the disposable d sink now um and would pop up on my phone for a split second and I spent a while trying to tap that button IT was like IT seemed like.

yes, I A similar problem actually. Um if you have a modern mac, if you have multiple users on that mac, when you plugged in a new USB or vulnerable device where like in recent OS is you have to approve the prompt, but you have multiple user signed in, there's a good chance you can approve that prompt. So because what happens is you plug in your USB, whatever and it's flashes up on the screen for a split second on whatever your organs and disappears.

This is true. I swear this is true even on a single user device. I swear you the same thing happens. Not to say you're wrong, not to say that your explanation is is incorrect, but I have had USB keys die on me, or other USB devices in cables. I like, why did I swear I just use this freaking today? And then I realize, oh, and now some of this this this self creative problem, because I have wait many pixels in front of me, but I will realize later that either there is a dialogue that I just did not see that I need to approve or IT like flashed up and then disappear immediately .

yeah and mean for me, that happens every time when there's multiple talked in matter whether you whether you're in like you know your main add user that you use all the time or not, like IT doesn't matter which use you're in. But as soon as you make one of them log, if you when you log out the others and leave only one left log in, then you can just replace, lug the thing and the dialogue shows are correctly.

and you can approve IT. I'm pretty sure this only one person log into my iphone, so don't know what the problem. And by the way, that the work around for that, as you just have IT, like you say, I I can't do and access to my devices and I sense you and S M, S, essentially, which yeah is jane, but that's what I had to do.

A the moral, the upshot of my story was I never could get I clod password, is thinking to work you I click the little approve thing in the window settings reen IT would send me the prompt. I would try to tap IT I fail. I would, I would. I enter the number you say, okay, great. Thanks for the number would spin for and then which bringing back the the the same screen that says you should approve passwords that was kind of obama.

But may I D realist from our derail ment very quickly.

this is still appreciate. We have not yet railed.

Well done. So anyways, I will request for for follow up please when I had my apple watch series, I had IT set up in such a way that if either my standard, my ninety nine percent of my use, apple I D or my apple I D for the business, got one of those no six to your code chAllenges, my watch would receive IT. And I could, I could get the code for my watch.

I did a transfer, whatever of series eight, series ten, I did. I didn't start a new or anything like that. But something i've done, or something he has done has taken that away so that I get the the chAllenge, the two factor chAllenge for my personal account on my watch every time, which is what I would expect.

But i'm no longer getting IT for my business account. And if there's got to be a way to add that like secondary account, like log into ee cloud or whatever, just for the purposes of these chAllenges, if anyone knows how to do that, specifically for the watch because I have been working on like my mac and stuff. But specifically for the watch, I would love some feedback if you know.

how do you have? Because I only have my personal like the apple log log with I cloud photos and I cloud notes. Like that's the only apple I D that I get the apple brand notification. All my other is I got to .

no IT works. So if you like the way that, like, you know that the system preferences has the concept of internet account, you can get into, you can you can log into multiple eyes class account, and you can then turn off like all of the other stuff about them on on Michael s, you mean on mac and iphone. So I don't know how worse than others, but yeah, mac and iphone, that because that telic, you know, I have I have different account for my developer account verse, my personal account.

That's how you do that. exactly. Where is that on the phone? I M on the phone.

I believes under mall you have like no, add an international account or add another account. It's something like that IT moves around over every few years.

But yes, there is another problem related to that, which is I think I complained IT about a Better year ago and they said apple said they were aware of IT IT was the on the apple developer website. When you go to log in, if you try to log in with the past, IT will always try to use the pity of you, the eyelid account you log into and .

not like one of your other accounts that you actually developed. IT never works. great. Also, I on the subject, please apple, so when you are logging in to safari with a till after connector, something with the development and IT sends you the two F A code. IT shows the two F A box on the mac exactly centered a new screen.

You know, what else is exactly center in your screen? The input box is in safari that you have to type IT into. So every single time, I have to drag the little window out of the way, so so I can see IT.

It's always on top, of course, so I can type in the code like, and doesn't this happen to everyone inside apple? How this has not been fixed after all these years? Maybe everyone's .

using their windows like I am, i've got a member special video you can watch. You can learn how different windows like always .

that center on the giant screen. Let let's rerated, I guess. So I think we were talking about you doing in that purchase testing and how that's a oh yeah.

So anyway, so I was I was little, a little annoyed at that. And then I remembered a, well, casey, I had assigned to some, some vision pro homework. So I get out the vision pro.

which in your defense, I assigned, I think I had IT in the shown note days ago, but I didn't call that to attention until this morning. So in in your defense, I did kind of drop this on your last minute.

right? So already a little mad.

I'm sorry that's on me.

right? And and then I I have to get out my vision pro to watch the thing we're going to talk about the week, weekend video. I put a lot.

And of course it's dead. Like because I haven't used IT for two weeks now. Why would IT possibly have a stand by life? I don't know, but IT doesn't totally dead.

So I plug IT in. Go, go about my work. Ten months later, I go back to IT.

Still totally dead. what? What is he going on? I am plugged IT. I rebu git. There isn't tly.

The little orange light that lies up on the battery pack when you plug IT in is really hard to see and hard to decide for its its signals that oran light was not turning on at all. So there was a no L, D, on on the Better. I like what i'm thing like, i'm getting so mad. And this is when I start chatting and slack with you guys like, I hate this f thing.

like you would expect. I'm not sure IT was as much chatting as he was venting, which is a service that we provide you.

But and IT did sound a lot like daughter about the same thing. You have the knowledge of my daughter not having. You are still angry at my understanding after after the discussion and you can correct me from wrong, is that what you're mostly angry about is that this device uh has bad stand by power usage.

You don't use IT for very well. It's got to get a full battery is sitting in a draw you feel like sitting in a draw with a full buyer for two weeks when you pick IT out. IT should not be so dead that he needs to .

be charged for a while before we boot. Yeah and you know more like more more than ten minutes like that before I even start to boot. Like to me like the vision pro, like from day one, the vision pro has always had horrendous standby battery life like IT IT basically is always on like you IT has like the two hours ish of battery lifespan.

K, when you are using IT, as far I can tell, IT basically has two hours stand by life. And every single as version IT comes out. And people where I go is Better now.

And every single time I try, I believe in, and then I try to ever use IT for anything is dead, always debt. Usually it's so dead that I have to eventually disconnect the power cord from the headset, which is basically unemployed. The desk top, like just disconnect IT and reconnect bits because lot of times only even boot even after it's charged and it's just I frequent but let me do a PSA though.

by the way, for the people who don't know what you know and my daughter now knows them will soon forget ah if you have an apple device that that has a battery, uh and you and the battery discharges down to nothing like you leave IT in a drawer or you do you use IT until the bad runs out or whatever it's been like that for a while. You really drain IT very often. You will need to plug that device into its power adapter, into a charger, whatever kind of device is. And so IT will not turn on, uh, if you're lucky.

And it's like an iphone or an ipad, IT will show a picture on the screen that was like a little battery with like a little red uh, progress bark kind of indicated in the batteries trying to indicates you, hey, I don't have enough battery power, but if you're unlucky in its a mac or apparently a vision pro or some other device you plugged in here like your macbook hours in my doctors case, actually like I plugging IT in, nothing is happening. Is the adapter broken? Is something wrong with that? Why I wanted turn on? It's literally plugged in.

And why won t turn on? And the answer is that is doing something most, most the time. IT is doing something you might have to leave IT plugged in, sometimes for hours before IT resurge itself and is ready to boot.

And IT was, maybe he was Better in the days when there was more glowing lights all over the things you could tell. I can tell IT is getting power based on little L E D hardware. L E D changing by where you plug IT in.

Or the little glowing ring member that once kind of glowing ring around IT for the old power box ever. Anyway, nowadays, with the U S, B, C, you plugged into power up and nothing happens. So if that happens to you and you're sure that the power after works and the outlet plugged into is powered IT may be that you just like need to let that sit there.

And how long do you know what it's IT there? Ten minutes an hour. I've had sometimes have have the things that there for multiple hours before they ready to turn on.

So be where that's a thing. Can save your trip to the apple store. You do have to find some way to checked the outlet in the adapter work. So I find some other device so you can test that their work and you have to make sure the adapter is the correct wattage to actually power your advice or whatever. But a vision problem apparently doesn't show you anything when that's happening and just sits there until it's good, ready and then IT puts up yeah and well.

maybe IT might built up and you might to employed the thing from the thing like I just and and but and to be fair, that everything you just said applies to almost everything with litham I bat that's just how battery is work like that. Just how when the battery gets very discharged, sometimes it's actually just dead forever um if it's very discharge for a long time. But I think this brand new device that has no solution model should be able to last in idle standby use for for two weeks.

I don't know. I I think you're asking me a lot.

I don't think I should be so dead after two weeks that IT literally can't power on for like fifteen minutes after you. Like.

like that's crazy. And by the way, we talking about like Adams s laptop and working without a battery, I do wonder how that square would we got feed back this said, oh, ah apple P2P can work without the battery as long as you plug in. But I guess when there is a battery in there, IT doesn't like bypass the battery and power the entire laptop of the apter.

Maybe I can power so at off of the motion, that's all point of the fibs. Oh yeah. If you take out the battery, they'll work fine as long as you keep them plugged in. But when the battery is in there pugin IT in does not let you bu immediately. So there are some new ones that that I .

don't understand that yeah and the vision pro, I think all bets are off and talking with the vision pro because it's such a weird and obviously ha baked product like it's it's just it's so like, okay, I know there are people out there who like IT to this later, but it's a crap product。 Like got i'm so i'm so mad that I own .

one just because IT didn't last for two weeks in the draw .

that it's it's .

how IT behaves in this like iphone and behaves so much Better in this context.

Now the max though, the max to show a black screen and have your kid calling you on the phone saying, why is my laptop turning on? I have to explain to them whether really is doing something.

I swear the good thing is once I did get division pro actually powered on and booted, um I uh told her to do a soft update that was going from me two point o two point one or whatever and uh IT just SAT there and spend forever. And then I came back. I you know like, okay, what I do, I I guess I take IT off, take IT off. So down, come back. You know, a couple hours later, put IT back on, check on IT still spinning you, you just mind control.

delete with your fingers, and you will see your fingers doing that. Only good itself.

Every literally nothing i've ever tried to do in the vision pro has been like a huge success. Like everything is like this. Either this didn't work or IT sort of worked or this is the promise or demo something that could be good later. I do understand .

your frustration, especially since you were in a bad stay to my yeah.

i've just met from a store kit testing.

I'd totally get that. But that being said, I think you might be a little unnecessarily harsh on the vision pro, but that's okay. I don't blame you for your anger. I think even if it's misplaced, I can kind of understand that too. But but I think maybe it's not so bad.

So let's let's um shelf that if you are content to ish for now, we have some ministry via we have a new atp member special now if you are one of people who joined as a member for the recently finished merchandise sale, which by the way, we got plenty of people reaching out saying all I missed IT this is why I make the announcements over over again. That always happens every time but anyways, thank you to those who did by merge, we appreciate you. But for all of you that are members, we have a new member special john, would you tell about IT please?

Back to atp movie club. That's actually how we kicked off the member specials for a series of three atp movie club episodes. Haven't dominant a long time.

Uh, and we were trying to decide what kind of movie to do. I think that was casey. You actually suggested maybe we should do in other gib movie. We've done one so far and now we've done a second one. It's kicky delivery service um quite a change of pace from our Normal tech topics and other stuff. But you know maybe in line with our domestic workflows episode, if you're familiar to you delivery service that make some kind of sense anyway um it's just a much more chill pleasant holiday experience for you uh even though is just november the movie club kiki deliver service. Uh atp that F M last join and you hear to and if you're already the case, said if you're already remember, because you joined to get the discount code, you can listen to this member special and all the other .

member special and you can binge mall. I mean, you can download them all and stopping a member if you so desire. I don't recommend that. I wouldn't encourage IT, but you could do IT.

So there is a dedicated feed for the specials. If you are a member, you have you have multiple feeds on your member page and you can go to atp, that F M, flash specials to see all them, whether or not you remember, you just can't play them if you not a member.

The see after I was upset by store kit testing and then by trying to do something with my vision pro, that would have been the wrong mood to watch that .

movie in that's true. That is very true ah you definitely want to be in a more chill mood and we talk and we talk about IT quite a bit more ah after the fact or then special .

yeah I was good you should go listen .

IT so let's do some follow up and I believe I was late last week. IT seems to be the rule that the day after we record is when apple chooses to release new vision pro content. Not every week, of course, but IT seems like most days at thursday, coincidently were recording this week on a on a thursday.

And there's the concert, for one thing, premiering on friday. So no matter what happens, it's always a good day or two after we recorded in that, that bumped me out. But last week, the weekend released their first music video from there.

Is there? I don't know his new album, I think, and this music video was done in immersive format. So as i'd like to do every time, I will recap.

There's three d where you just get a rectangle that has depth and then there's immersive when you can actually move your head around in the perspective of the camera moves with you. This was immersive. It's about five and half minutes.

I tend to like the weekend, which is almost frustrating because he actually did a performance at wwdc one year. And all of us were like, first of all, who the how are you? Because this was early age in his career, and certainly before he exploited anyway. And secondly, why is the space so god dam oud, because I don't know if you guys remember .

this was a moscov and IT IT was so that no great .

to the fidelity was phenomenal. But IT was so loud we needed our airpower s pro right market. We didn't have at that point. anyways.

I tend to like the weekends music and I I think it's been well documented at this past that i'm a sucker for any immerse of anything. And guess what? I thought this was pretty cool, weird, weird as a hell, but pretty cool.

And I don't have too much more to say about IT other than you should give you a shot. And if if you have a vision pro or or access to a vision pro, and my understanding is you can actually sign up for a vision pro demo again or now if you've never done before. And one of the things you can elect to, or perhaps they force upon you is watching this music video, which I think is is worth your time, as if you happen to live near an apple store. Marco, what were your thoughts? I thought you hope you did do at least this much of your homework.

Do you know how long IT took me to find this? Oh.

that is true. I'm trying to stay possible here. But let's just say that the information architecture on the apple TV APP is bad on every platform, but I feel like IT is uniquely bad on the vision pro because IT should have like a giant tic flashing like what was the HTML tag that we all made fun of that was so popular?

Yes, thank you. Blank or markey, either one does not matter. There should be both of those in the apple TV APP. Here is where you get immersive crap from apple right here.

Point in there should be a thousand arrows at different like depth in what not all pointing to the button you're supposed to tap or what have you in order to you get to the immersive content. And IT is usually one of these small items front and center on on the apple TVB. But IT is never where I expected to be so hard degree on that one, very frustrating. But anyway, so hopefully you did eventually find IT.

The apple TV APP on the vision pro is just the apple TV APP the same way that is everywhere else like but it's it's native, like know if is but like the informationally, what do you think people using a vision pro want? I mean, yes, obviously if you're like really using IT all the time, you want access to everything.

Of course, that has one of those those side bars on the left side where there has like in the five different things, add a sixth one for all the immersive content because right, you know newsletter es, there's not that much of IT. Like so it's not like it's too much content to fit in a section. Like just add something on the site so that you can quickly okay.

So here's like this. So first I the TV this just came out recently, right? Isn't like a week .

and I think last thursday or friday.

forget exact yet. So just it's a week old. There is probably still the newest content available vision pro um and so I thought how hard can to be all open the T, V, P and look for? Nope, nowhere.

There's even to think there's a promo in the T V APP for some kind of upcoming like concerts thing they're going to do. So I I lived at that, of course, is not there because I guess it's not a concert to music. okay.

So oh, my god, well, that's not IT. I maybe i'll just I go back and try to, I breath you resection that I could find in the in the T V APP it's nowhere. I could find something.

Okay, so not like maybe to the music APP it's the music, and I go over the music up and it's, of course I can fight. And there's even like i've going through all these everything things. There's even like like kind of like prom for some kind of big like featured station and they're going to do this.

So I go great clink on that and all that showing me is like super low resolution for some reason, live broadcast of some weird thing. And that's not right. okay. So like, I eventually back out IT. IT takes me a good five minutes to find.

Eventually, the way I found IT was I searched the music APP for the weekend, went to his page, and somewhere eventually in there, IT linked me back out over to the T. V. nice. Where is deeply me directly to the right thing that is very.

very frustrated. For what it's worth, I did eventually put in slack the actual link to the video. But again, your defense, this was probably an hour to after I ask you to watch IT. So I did not set you up for success on this. And for that, I apologize.

Well, yeah, you did send me the link, but I like how going to get this link in my vision pro. Surely IT should be easier to just find IT in because I know I don't have slack on there. I don't even though is there.

So like it's not native, but you'd have to know the ipad up. But yes.

right. Yeah but but I don't have that set up. So that would be a whole thing setting up black as a whole thing.

So it's like to just anyway, so I eventually found the video IT was very interesting. It's a music video. So you IT has a very different style then like you know A T V show, serious thing or a nature document.

It's a music video. So it's very artistic, abstract. I do not like the motion of IT, and I felt pretty motion sick afterwards. So interesting .

because .

if you know being a music video, there's more cuts than than the other stuff we've seen in the vision immersive formats. Um there's more movement. Some of the things they do are like when there's like a scene with the road at the roads, like bending in front of you.

And yes, IT is like straight out of inception and IT didn't have mean motion sickness, but he gave me some very weird vibes like I felt like not uncomfortable. I don't know how to verbal ized IT, but it's just like A I don't know what's going on here.

I'm not sure if I like I was happy to see a different style of 3d content in the vision pro。 And IT showed me that there is a lot of promise for that still because it's it's very sharp, very high rise. They do the thing where they get like super close to, I guess, the guy the weekend is that his name and they get super close to to mr.

Weekend into the point where you are like again, like like you were that close to a person, you would have to be like making out with them and for you to be that close in front of somebody you don't know feels a little uncomfortable. It's almost like I should I get like I shouldn't be here. I shouldn't be this close to this stranger like i'm being a creep here by being this close to this person um but what I did show off the format of immersive video.

Well, super high rise, super good, like lighting effects and everything is what one of the elements of the video is, that they have these like shadow people, where they are just like shadow figures, and like bright lights for eyes, like starburst lights for eyes. That was a really cool effect to see there. There were a couple of scenes where you have like a first person view of what basically amounts to a Carries, but like with an ambuLance in front of you.

And so you're like going back and forth in the road and it's like you're like looking through the three d car chase. And so and it's almost like showing you here's a demo of a bunch of different types of scenes that immersive video can show you. And it's really cool and it's very realistic.

And IT does feel like being there. The problem is that feels too much like being there and I felt very emotion sick at which I don't Normally with watching other three d contempt. This one was, this was bad for me.

Like this was like I almost couldn't finish watching IT like I was almost going to bail. But i'm like for the for the good of the show, I went through all this to find this thing. I am, i'm gonna get through the five minutes actually finished. Yeah, john, you .

should watch. I had to stop.

I would say if you are motion sensitive, do not watch this IT would not be a good idea, but if you are usually not motion sensitive and don't mind getting a little motion sensitive, a IT is something good to see. But what IT shows me is that there's a lot of promise with immersive video. But we haven't we haven't really nail that format yet and more experimenting is needed.

But IT does show a big range. IT shows everything from close up shots to car chases to weird abstract road warpings like IT shows you a bunch of different things. So from that point of view, it's a good demo, but I think they did not test us on enough people because if they did, they would have revealed some pretty significant motion sickness.

I mean, I didn't have to issue with you, but I don't tend to get motion sick. I finally got like some hb gbs about some of the moments. Like one point you're up in the air and contained in something and then you leave that container on being vae on purpose and you are like a way up in the air.

And it's a little like I like this at all. But all all, I do think IT was very cool and IT, I know i've said this many times, but IT just gives me an even stronger thirst for more of this kind of content. I just I wish we could get more and they're doing Better about getting more in.

Th Epace i s i mproving. But god, it's just so meat and so cool and some like is so unlike anything else that I can or have experienced. I'm not trying to say that equivalence don't happen on other platforms.

On saying is for me personally, this is about all i've got. And since I don't have the occasion to use the vision pro for many other things, this is one of the the highlights of my use, the vision pro. I have not yet tried the new mac virtual display stuff, which.

University has been deeply praised in the best possible way. Like everyone says, it's amazing, but i'm not putting a bit on my laptop, just know. So I wait until it's all in the release.

But anyways, I don't have a lot of excuses to put on the vision pro, and this gives me an excuse. I'm excited about that, but IT was just really cool. And I think it's worth again, it's not worth driving an hour to the apple store, whatever, to try this.

But genuinely, as i've said many times, if you are if you have an occasion that you're near an apple store and you know you will be and can schedule one of these like trials and demo or wherever they call IT, I can't stress enough even just to experience IT. I think IT is well worth your time. And like i'd say, I think the last time we spoke about this when I did IT anyway, which IT media was back in february, they were not celery about IT at all or or not pushes maybe a Better way of describing IT.

They were just okay. You can do this, you can do that, you can do this, you can do that. And they were not like, okay, you can to buy know, they were very chill about IT. So it's worth .

giving a shot what this video shows me. IT continues to show me that there are so many experiences that can only happen in immersive video, and that's a very good thing. Like I am very sold on the idea of dedicated harbor that's capable of giving us three experiences.

Because when you see a really good one like parts of the submarine, one like parts of this, like when you see a really good one, IT is really something. It's really amazing. It's hard to communicate this without experiences IT. Because you can't show somebody a screen shot, you can't show somebody a video of IT and have them view on regular screen and and be able to convey what it's like.

Like so much of technology, so many of the devices or or services or the media that, that we have available to us, so much of IT, you're able to get a pretty good idea of what it's like by watching a video of IT or like A A video review that somebody has or looking at a screen shot that somebody shows you. There is no good equivalent to that to immersive three d content that when you're viewing IT on a regular screen, like nothing can really convey what it's like to experience that in thirty. And know we say that to be in there, to be in the vision pro because IT really physically going into a different world every time I experience really good three ty himself of content, which is still we're still not past the you can get through everything the very first night you have a level of the vision pro um they're still not enough content for that.

But there is so much promise for the idea of 3d content。 So as much as I real against a lot of a lot of the decisions that will made with this product, I love the idea of more consumer availability and adoption of hardware that can deliver us three experiences. This just this is still super early and still has a lot.

This is like the vision pro is like john Y. I ve came back from the dead and had a fever dream and shipped IT as a product with no editing like it's just a it's such a weird to product with so many bad decisions, but it's compelling when you have these experiences, isn't you like, oh, this is a big deal. This is different.

This is like, this is Better than I thought. This is more emotional than I thought. This is more than I thought. maybe. But like, there is so much promise to that type of experience. Part of reason why I think a and VR are almost entirely different things yeah is part of the reason of why i'm largely down on the a computing side of spain, computing as as discussed uh, previously. But I think the the no content experience sight of IT is very strong and and has a good future if if the proper investments in the content are made. But and I hope they have, because IT really, like I would almost describe you this video, or the submarines one, I would almost describe them as amusement park rights, like IT is really something to experience. Yeah I I say the submarine one is is closer to a real life play um this one was closer to what I would assume my very strong pollution a genetic drug trip might be .

like having never tried hilliary genitals. I concur that this is how I expect you would feel.

Yeah so it's it's a different style. But but IT shows you like this is the kind of thing that is possible if somebody makes content really made for this.

Uh, so I hope more of that happens and and you know it's good that apple was able to push an arrest that isn't them already to make this happen more please like because again, we still like so useful to know in the chat uh user jerod s said that apparently lens rentals now rents the vision pro. Um you you can rent one for a week for a couple hundred box. You don't need to rent one for a week.

I'd say you can rent the vision pro for three days and get a very good idea of everything I can do for you. The first day, you can go through all the content, and then the second day, you can actually like you can sign in as yourself and put your stuff in IT and you know, try out some apps and try to losing productivity. Try the mac mode.

You can do all of that in a three day rental pretty easily if you want to save some money. But you know, eventually, if they step on the gas a little with the content, this could work. But we we got to step on the gas and and we have to see the content get a little more refined in the techniques they use to avoid things. Motion sadness.

So I was looking at the trying to find the rentals link to put in the shown notes. I don't think they have have response with the show, but I I have in I have been a patron if there is no long time, but I have really, really liked their services in in the years that I have used them several years ago. But anyway, yeah Q N A for apple vision pro to two hundred and fifty six gig. First item, why is the barry's life so short? I just no notes, no notes.

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and appreciation for a john's tip, which I was aware of. The marco was not about, hey, if you're drawing something i'm macos and you say hope just kidding. You can actually hit escape in order to cancel that drag.

And I don't remember how I stumbled on this, but I did. It's been something I do constantly. And marker was one of the lucky ten thousand that didn't know that day, and now he knows, which is great, but we had some feed back about alternative methods to cancel drugs. John, do you want to take us through this?

Everyone wanted to tell us the thing that I really know. This is also from classic macos. You can also drag to the menu bar to cancel a drag, uh, which is a big drag locations you don't have to be very precious about IT.

All will say that I think it's possible to have like menu extras, like the icons of the menu bar that do allow you to drag things to them. So don't drag IT to one of those. You can just have to find a safe place in the menu barbering with. That's another thing from classic Michael west. I was like, easy to hit drag destination that will let you cancel a drag um and yeah I don't know how many people still do that.

I still think escape is Better because you know how to drag all at your men you bar if you have a big screen or whatever or near the bottom um but i'll give you one bonus tip here which I looked to uh and last episode if you're like me and you're like list of your windows in the finder and you turn down the little disclosure triangles on the folders to show like a hierarchy of things unless you I love that picture and use that a lot uh if you ever want to drag something in the finder into the folder that is represented by that window without mistakenly dragged IT into one of the disclosed sub folders. You know I mean you can try to like drag IT and see if the finder is highlighting the the top folder or not highlighting of the sub holder, whatever. But the much is your thing that I studied to this day that I started doing.

Classic max is if you dragged to the the header bar, the one that says, like named date modified size, that bar on top of list, you and you if you drag your item onto that bar will always go into the window, that is the filter that is represented by that window. You'll never mistake ly dragged into a sub folder that was a little of more nuance than hitting escape or drag to the menu. Barbet IT is very useful if you don't if you use list your windows, you don't want to be a figure with them.

Good deal. Uh, m four versus four pro, the mac mini zs are a little bit interesting, so forge or handsome rights. While I don't have access to two mac mines to compare them, the behavior from all previous apple silk max was suggest that the m for mac many five twelve gigs is using two two hundred fifty six gig chips. The end four pro mac, many five twelve and five twelve gigs, uses four one hundred and twenty eight gig chips and that the m for pro is also providing wider bandwidth, effectively utilize the extra chips so the m for pro might have far greater read right speed than the .

non pro you are trying to figure out, why would two S S S that are the same size in the same mac? Many, the only difference being the S O C, why would they be different speeds? And apparently apple has done this in the past.

I haven't seen a tear down to confirm this, but IT seems flaught ble like basically, if you have an m for mac mini and an m four pro, mac many and have the exact same size as the, why should they be different speeds? And the answers, the mac pro might just have twice as many chips on IT and you cause you can read, write those in parallel. L also gives you a speech.

And yes, the m for pro may have slightly Better band with to the S D. As well. So that is the plausible and likely explanation.

In friends to queen, Nelson did a video with regard to the mac many. And quinn tried to build a six hundred dollar PC to match the performance of the six hundred dollar mac mini.

Yea, this quote, that's why I put IT in there a good job of saying and and is you right?

Well, queen says the falling, which I am being told my ear that I should read. Quinn says I tried to build a five hundred ninety nine dollar PC to match the performance of the five hundred ninety nine dollar. That many size efficiency be damned.

I could not do IT you cannot build a Better PC for six hundred dollars using new parts period. But the mac many is only a good deal if you leave IT as is. And there's a like ten, fifteen minute video on IT as with most, if not all of queen's videos, is very, very good in, is worth at your time .

yeah so that middle sentence there this is this is A A moment in time worth noting he was queening. You cannot build a Better P C. For six hundred dollars using new parts.

I don't think that's been true of mac vers PC for a long time. And when IT has happened, IT has been brief and fleet because that's always the thing with max technology going. So i'll use a mac, I could build a Better PC for that, that the matter for half the Price, right? That's always the thing.

And usually it's true. Usually you can build a faster, more capable, uh, you know, won't necessary say Better, but spec wise, you can build something that performs Better, that finishes work faster than the mac, that plays games at higher frameworks, that has more storage, that has more RAM for less money than the mac. That's just the order of the universe.

And yet, here we are in this brief moment in time where if you get the base mac, many for six hundred dollars, you literally cannot build yourself a computer any size, any appearance. Now, forget about trying to make a tiny little, know, you can make this big as you want, as noisy as you want. The queen even said, forget about thunder bolt and thrown that out the window.

Two, none of those fancy mac buses that no one cares about, just just a plain P. C. I don't care about the I, O, six hundred dollars.

Can you make something that beats the mac? Many in G, P, U, in C, P, U, and multiple anything? The answers you cannot, which is pretty amazing and shows how amazing apple silicon is. But as quint points out, the second, he emphasizes this, the same world in the video.

The second you touch any options on that magmatic configuration page, you totally lose that the Price advantage goes, touch anything, add more time and more stories like maybe not, not, but maybe even the second you add anything to and go to a non based model, then the PC, you can get something much cheaper and faster, which is a shame. But IT is worth noting that for this brief moment in time, there is a mac that is the best buy in terms of performance, not in terms of s, that is not in terms of size, not in terms of power usage, nothing and performance. Amazing what a day to be like me.

And this just shows like a lot of times, apples base models are pretty good values compared to almost anything compared to their own products or or are their competitors products like the base models can be great values IT just is usually not the case once you are anything like that, that is a very .

common feature road because also the base models, if this is the brief moment in time. But like five years from now, when IT still comes to sixteen, giggs, RAM and IT starts to seem a little bit constrained because apple intelligence is two point whatever can barely run in six of around. Like that's what the problem of the base models they're like.

They are great byand. They've just recently been bumped in their spects, but then they stagnate for years and years and years and they become a worse and worse by because it's like the S O C maybe as a goodbye, like the computers are goodbye, but the storage and memory just get more and more animal and eventually stop to me a goodbye. Because you all like if you buy this, you won't be able to fit your stuff on IT because it's like a sixteen year iphone or whatever. You know.

Yeah and part of I think part of apple's whole revenue and and profit margin strategy is like they they are willing to eat into their margins a little bit when the product first launches, and then we'll sit on those spects as long as possible so that, yes, it's a really good competitive deal. They might get less margin for the first few months to something's out.

But then you know over the over over time, through out the lifecycle at that product when it's not getting updated, IT becomes a worse, worse deal for us and a Better and Better deal for them. And so if you pay attention, you can get pretty decent deals when you do things like jump on something right after you're an update where some important spec has been to take IT, well, like the RAM has here. So so you can get Better deals. But they like the availability of them, goes in cycles with the product lifetimes.

So speaking of good and bad deals, johnna looks like you wanted to talk about storage pricing.

yeah. I mean, it's at the same topic we were just touching on with queen and you touch those options, that becomes a bad deal. And we've been harping on up.

But there was too good red posts that I thought we're funny on that topic. First one is what do you get for your money option, a upgrade, your mac, many to two terribles of storage. Option b, for the exact same amount of money you can get a playe station five pro, which comes with two terribles of storage and also one hundred dollars cash.

And let me the two terrified of storage that comes with the play station, first of all, with the mac money upgrade, you're only upgrading one point one in three quarters of a terribly right basic comes with two forty six and you're upgrading to two terrible tes. So you're adding one point seven five terrorists, you know I mean, so you're not even buying a full two terrible tes and that cost eight hundred dollars. That same eight hundred dollars you can get two terabytes of story in the playstation five pro and play station.

Five has fairly strict requirements for the S S. D. You have to put in the minimum spec is five thousand five hundred megabit per second red right for the playstation storage.

So this is not crappy like I is not the same storage in the mac. It's probably as faster as faster than where you have the act money. Of course, you get an entire playstation five pro, not play station five, the the playstation five pro, the seven hundred dollar when that just came out.

And then you get one hundred doors cash back. So, uh, yeah, apple Prices make no sense. Uh, maybe you maybe you could buy playstation by pro with two top rites of storage and get the hundred location because you have the disorder of the the chips never.

And by the way, the police station fire product does have an end that to uh uh expansion important as well. Uh and in the second item, this is uh also from redit. IT is a fairly confusing chart that somebody made, but that does show some interesting stuff here.

So it's showing apple versus market SSD Prices. And here, I think they did a little bit of cheap by not considering the equality and speed of S S D chips that apple users versus like market Prices. Because when people try to compare market Prices like this so much, a terribly cost, well, what Terry, a terribly that gets, how much read right speed, you can buy a slow, terribly for less money than a fast Terry.

But setting that aside, what is basically showing here is this is a chart from twenty thirteen to twenty twenty five and IT shows, uh, storage Prices going down over time, which we've all experiences. S S, C start Prices ince twenty thirteen have gone down over time. You can get more storage for less money.

It's a fairly sharp curve. And then on the same graph, there are a bunch of lines for apple's products and and the the storage pricing associated with them, starting with the twenty eleven mac mini, uh, which was three hundred dollars for two hundred to six k bites uh or twelve dollars for terrified. And the apple process lines, like marker was a learning to before, are completely horizontal.

Their Price never goes down. They just go. It's just a hzl to line on the graph. So the mac mini was a terrible deal. And then came the twenty fourteen mamen.

The eight eight hundred dollars per terribly that is a horizontal line that extends from twenty fourteen to twenty twenty four, does not dip the the actual storage lines going down, down, down, down, down. The mac mini line is just state across, never changing into dollars per ter by eight and doors for terribly for ten years. For ten years they did not change the storage Price.

And now finally, the new the the m one mac mini in twenty twenty is its own horizontal line at the four hundred dollars per tare by still above the market Prices. So yeah, that's the apple strategy introduced, the thing that an expensive Price and never change IT sometimes for a decade while the entire pricing commodity parts environment around IT changes rationally. Apple is, you know frozen in time with Prices fixed in place as of the introduction of that computer.

And personally, that will happen with the in for one as well, is just that right now. Uh, that computer in terms of capability is a good deal at the base model. But yeah, when you once you add any storage, you jump off of this market line, you go open double fantasy and you just stay there forever.

It's so frustrating because i'm so happy that we finally got the increased RAM, but it's just shining a gigantic like what what is a bad signal sized light on how egregious storage pricing is. It's just it's not good, but we can move slightly forward onto mous rights. The ridiculous RAM and necessity upgrade Prices.

Apple charges look even worse when you notice that apple only lets to retailers cell the lower and versions want to future proof your macro o pro by getting a two tabs that's only available from apple directly. So apple keeps one hundred percent of those ridiculous create charges, making their margins even higher compared to the versions that are also sold by third parties. I did not know that this .

is something I don't think about, but like, we all know the whole deal like marco experienced this because he very often needs a computer in a Harry because he's maro. If you go to the apple store, they have a certain a certain fix number of like oh here, like the fixing fix we have in stock and like the base one and then like a Better one.

But if you are ready to go to like best buy or like any other run in place, they have a limited number configurations. And I didn't realize that they just don't have like the very upgraded configurations at all. And so yes, seems like apple is just saving the highest margin products only for its channels of this watering through apple's website or you know the store, whatever. And then everyone else gets, I guess, the base model, maybe one bump up. I don't have expense extensive experience looking for, uh, max sold by companies other than apple, but this is just another way that apple is making sure that they keep most of the fat as part of the margin Carrier.

But this is an entirely an absolute truth. Um there are like certainly tailors that seem to have really good relationship with apple and maybe sell a bunch of stuff to high and customers like b nh maybe. Yes, I going to say b nh is a good example.

B nh usually has so like even you know if we you go to apple stores, there's always like you whatever base configurations they have on the apple website, like there's usually a three per computer family too, good, Better, best, right. Like so whatever basic figure actions they have, every retailer that that doesn't a kind of you you will have those configurations. But usually if you if you ask an apple store, if you go on apple store and say, I need to be today, what else do you have that higher than these? They do stock other configurations usual, but you know not every configuration possible.

So it's like, well, if you want know the four terrible SSD, you might need to upgrade to sixty four caves of RAM to get at that same day in that store or whatever. So but they do stock usually a couple of higher reconfiguration that are not listed on the website in apple stores. Will you go to a retail c best buy? Usually they will have those best buy or B N action, usually they will have some of those in stock.

And if they are running any kind of discounter special, often times if they'll take like you know a hundred box off for some kind of sail, they are running often times that will apply to those high and configurations also. So I have seen higher configurations discounted by resellers before. It's not as common and and you can get every configuration you want, but they do exist.

All right. And then we got some news, I think around the time we actually recorded last week, but allegedly the m four macbook pro just started quietly using quantum dot splay tech, uh, which I was not aware of. So reading from macro MERS, the m four macpro models feature quantum dot display technology.

According to display analyst ross Young, apple used to quantum dot film instead of a red case fuser film, a change that provides more viBrant, accurate color results. And apparently john interview one if you're ready, but appeared tly quantum thought was a thing for a long time, and apple was aware of IT but refused to use IT because there was an element in there. I forget which one now that apparently is not easy to recycle or not easy to come by without.

You really do getting IT from really terrible places. And so they said, IT, no thanks. But now you can do this quantum dot stuff without that whatever element IT was. And so they're like how yah, let's do IT much sure .

of the environmental reason was the main motivation this happens is very far behind a lot of display stuff. But uh, just to clarify, and the quantum not think so, the put a link uh in the notes to uh ross Young, uh post about this and he's got little spectrograph images showing the red, Green and blue wave links of light emitted by the the sub pixel in a display this is these graphs.

Something is very familiar if you watch a lot of TV reviews or any kind of monitor with RGB pixel. And you would think, you know, if you look very close on the monitor, it's got a little red suspects, a little Green subs, a little blue suspects. All some tvs have voice subs as well, but computer manners don't.

You would think that if you expose that one of these spectrum analyzers, you would see like a Spike in the blue, Spike in the Green and a Spike in the red. Uh, but surprisingly, especially. Televisions, you will see some very reshape in lumps with like kind of a plata between blue and Green.

And then one Spike is higher than the others and other Spike are wider. You like wired, so like unevenly distributed to White, just pure red, pure Green and pure. Um well, the way uh none quantum got uh L C D displays work is they have a back light that shines, usually White light through a filter and the filter that have a red filter, Green filter and a blue filter.

And the filter blocks all the wavelengths that are not blue, and the Green one blocks all the wavelength that are not Green. The red one blocks all the wavelength are not red. Like when you take one read, like film, things like three glasses of the red, the Green, there are little things to go your eyes.

And they work by blocking wavelength that are not red or Green, uh, red or blue from getting to your eyes. So the bottom is they block light. So you have to turn the backlight up even higher because some of the light from that White backlight is being blocked, in fact, like a third of the lighter, whatever, depending on the spectrum with the light backlight is being blocked by some pixel.

That's not good for brightness. The way quantum dots were does not actually have work. But you can think about IT as instead of blocking the wavelengths that are not red, Green or blue, they take whatever light hits them and essentially change IT into what light of the wavelength th, that is, desire doesn't IT.

Basically, the light hits the the quantum dot than the quantum dot emits light in a particular. So you don't lose as much light by blocking wavelengths. I'll take your light whatever color is, by the way, most quantum not like a blue backlight because that is the highest energy.

And you can downgrade that to Green and red, right? So they have a blue backlight and they know the book book IT will go straight through the blue pixel, so no filter or what's ever there. And then the blue, black light had the Green quantum dot.

And rather than blocking wave like them, there is no Green wave like there is little IT will change the wavelength of the light by emitting a Green wave length that is being excited anyway. H, that's what quantum got to do. They eventually change the color of light in a more efficient manner, so you can run the back light lower, so you can get higher brightness, all that often.

The micro O O with the one thousand nine uh thing I mean, that's not that big day, about six hundred. That anyway is really just sofa setting. But I think the reason they unlocked that with the software setting, without the fear of them destroying Better your life, is because the quantum that display lets them get one thousand minutes on that display with a less bright backlight, because the conducts are more efficient.

What this isn't is anything like OLED OLED. Ds, there are things as such as a quantum dot OLED, which is what to have my T. V, but oh, ds emit light and entirely different way in our different technology, and are much Better than what apples doing with the mini.

I, D, but the rumor is that the OLED macbook prows will have to wait until late twenty twenty five or twenty twenty six. So keep holding your breath for those. But for now, we get to enjoy brighter, more viBrant, more pure color with less energy on these new macbook pros.

This is cool and non jealous. So there we go. So sometime in the last week or so, a couple weeks actually, uh, there was a bit of a croftly about, uh, I was devices starting to just randomly reboot themselves and hear me out before, you know, grab your pitchforks as this started on, I guess, the ninth of november with a report from the verge, uh, reading from there, there is apparently a new I O S eighteen security feature that reboots iphones that have haven't been unlocked in a few days, frustrating police by making IT harder to break into suspects phones.

This apparently was all kicked off by a four of four media post, which we will also link again reading from the verge four four media, which first reported police warnings about the reboot on thursday. right? That restarted iphones entering more secure or quote before first unlock or be a state.

Now IT seems apple added inactivity reboot code in one thousand nine point one that trigger iphone to restart after they've been locked for four days, which is kinder wild. So ah there's a demo video put up by jaska classen hopefully pronouncing so what right? Who is a researcher at the hassle planner institute in one of the first security experts to spot this new feature, and their video are demonstrating this shows that an iphone left alone without having unlocked reboots itself after about seventy two hours. And I watched, of course, they accelerated most of its.

you don't say there, right?

IT shows that almost exactly. It's fifty two hours share enough thing, reboots and then the same just a classroom did a fascinating deep dive and reverse engineering into how this exact exactly works before I get there. Do we have any commentary so far even to read this next.

there was a little bit of scaremongering when this came out. It's like, well, first, the police are cuculain ing. Oh please, it's onna.

Make a harder to break into criminal phones, every kind of any kind of security feature launching. So like we don't we want back doors. We all want to be to have things.

We want things to be, you know, they need to find out things about criminals. But in as individuals, you want to protect our privacy. So this is like apples doing this thing.

Are they folding long enforcement? Or is this a bug? Or is IT sound? There is also some members, like the phones, are talking to each other in the evidence room and telling each other.

I love that. I love the crazy crap cops come up with and they say with the other most authority yeah.

there are some series like, which is when they're not on the network because, like of the evidence room, there's no wifi they can connect to or they can get secular or whatever. But anyway.

this reverse engineering IT must be a conspiracy between the iphones to lock us out to.

So this reverse engineering is a good, does a good job of discovering exactly what is. But I think the most interesting part about this, that cases is about to read is the background. And why doing this? Why do this? What's the point? Like why? so? So what your phone reboots of? No in touches for seventy two hours. How does that stop, uh, someone from breaking into phone?

I'm sordid to real just a little bit. But tom age and the chat said they don't need to bring this division pro because IT already has another way to reboot. Long before seventy two hours, I was too good.

I could not help myself again. Marco, head his room for two weeks.

not three days. I trust me, I won't last three days.

Probably not.

You can run that experiment, say.

going back to district class. And this is a bit of a long passage, but IT is worth reading. Did you know that entering your pass code for the first time after your phone and starts at something very different than entering IT later to unlock your phone when initially entering your pass code, this unlock a key store in the secure unclear processor or sep that encryption data on an iphone.

The state before entering your pass code for the first time is also called before first unlock, due to the encrypted user data, your iphone behaves slightly differently too. Later on lock, you'll see that face I D in touch I D won't work and that the past code is required. But there's more subbed things you might notice, since wifi passwords are encrypted, iphone won't connect to wifi networks.

If your same is not pin protected, your iphone will still connect to solution networks. That means technically you can store, see phone calls yet if you receive phone call, even if that numbers in your contacts, the contact name will be shown as the contacts having been decrepit, yet someone to leave. When you receive notifications about new mesage, you'll see that you got messages, but you won't see any message previews in the after first unlock state or A F U, user data is decrypted.

You can imagine this is like a key safe that has kept open while IOS is running. Even when you see a lot screen, certain keys remain available to the Operating system. This way, you can stay connected to wifi networks and receive message notification previews even when your phone is locked.

Well, it's more convenient. The a few state is more except table to attacks. An attacker who can somehow, by pass the occ screen, can get access to the descriptive data on the iphone to bypass the lock screen, and the attacker does not necessarily need to know the past codes. Current vulnerabilities with an IOS can allow attackers to get code execution and extract from an iphone, even while IT appears to be quite and quote.

locked. So so just summarize what they're describing here. So we've all seen this like when you boot your front for the first time, you have to type in your pass code to unlock IT and all these sort of side effects of the before on lock state that yeah your phones on and it's booted and if your S M S doesn't have a pain, you can receive SMS messages but none of your data is accessible yet.

I mean, everything is increase ted call enrietter at rest on the one I bled garbage. They make no sense. If you look at them, they, they they're encrypted.

You need the secret description in key to develop into something when you boot your phone. IT hasn't decrypted any of that stuff yet. IT doesn't description IT and put IT into memory until you want to lock IT right?

Once you unlocked the keys to the kingdom are in the memory of the phone, you've been retrieved from the secure enclave thanks to you entering your pass code. It's it's unlock the key safe that has the geese in them and now your phone's busy reading stuff. It's reading your context is sputter amend of memory. It's reading your messages as they come and it's reading everything right in the running memory of your turn on phone is all your valuable information are just sitting in memory summer, right? Obviously, it's hard to get to you have to crack into the phone and find a way to read memory, which usually can do ba, but it's there.

It's unencrypted in the memory chips like you can imagine if you could crack the thing open and somehow access the memory chips with the like, if you have physical access to the phones and all sorts of weird if you can do right? It's very much like people think like when I lock my computer, like when I turned the screen seven on and IT requires a password to get in, like everything is secure. But I think a bit more like just taking a very thin curtain and putting IT over the front of all.

Secret stuff. And if they can like tea, tiny hole in that curtain or breeze can blow that curtain aside, or the curtain becomes a little transparent, or the curtain crashes, they torture the analogy here and disappears. That was like one of the early security falls in early version of macos, the password dialogue in the screen seven seven locks screen.

If you just held down a key and just entered like a real long password by repeating letter A A thousand times, I would crash the screen lock application up and the curtain would go away. And guess what? There is all your stuff totally descript, the sitting right underneath the curtain.

So the after first unlock state is all your stuff with a thin venir curtain hiding in front of IT that hopefully stop people, but is so easy to get around the current. The before unlock state is everything is still entirely encysted and it's of no use to anybody. IT is locked up.

IT is fully it's IT is almost like your phone is off right? IT is just encrypted at rest. And so even though from our perspective, so what's the difference I enter my pass code of the time I do face idea isn't IT just as locked when I locked my phone? No, it's totally different before unlock is way, way, way more or secure than after.

Yeah, I I love that apple takes IOS secure you so seriously and it's it's so incredibly advanced and all these from protections. But I also, I think even more than that, I love that they are constantly in motion and constantly tightening things down even further, and they actually would care. You know apple, you know the you, you, you all know what I think of tim cook um but when he does his shameless government CoOperation um usually it's opportunistic ways that he could make sure that he keeps making a whole bunch of money um as we're going to see him play very nice with trump over the next few years. Like that happened last time, going to happen again this time.

And you can be sure that anything that you know, if there's like tariff on goods from china, you're going to see that all they just mysteriously don't apply to apple and there's going to be a lot of that kind i've going on is going to play very, very nice with government and with the um fagg on top um who you know to to get to make sure that apple continue to make a whole bunch of money with its Operations in china. However, apple also does not like CoOperating with long effort more than IT has to legally, and they especially do not like things that things that try to get around their phones privacy and security measures. So apple is constantly closing loopholes, uh, fighting, you know, adding more protections, fighting against different hacks.

And that's whatever you think of of weather. Law enforcement should be able to hack phones that somehow would only be used for good purposes ha, uh, whatever you think about that, this type of security affects everybody like this is just apple making sure that our phones are secure for everybody. And this is total overkill for most of us.

But i'd rather they air on the site of overkill when IT comes to basic device security, then, you know, under kill, whatever that where would be like. I'm i'm glad that they take these ridiculous measures. I'm glad that somewhere some one of these various hacks from celebrate, whatever one of these various hats that these, you know, unforced agencies and, you know, foreign governments know other kind of bad actors, one one of the exploits apple realize, hey, you know what if we just make the funder boot?

After three days of not being unlocked, he raced this whole category of whatever from being used in and practically, I love that kind of stuff. And i'm so glad that they keep fighting. That fight. IT makes their products safer and more secure for all of us.

And by the way, that's why I like when the police have a phone that they want to break IT do, that's why they keep IT plug in because they don't want IT to like run out of battery and dying. Go to the before, before again, if they want to keep all that in memory, all the descript, the data in memory, they want to keep IT there. They want to keep IT in the mode words, all the goods with a thin curtain in front.

But just I can figure how to get around that curtain or get through IT or whatever. But once at reboots, IT just becomes a bucket of garbage data. They have very, very difficult time getting anything out .

of yeah and know because a lot of times there was like processes like, oh well, like we have this phone, keep IT alive, keep in, keep IT power on until we can get I mean, do they get warrants? really? Probably not. But it's more probably more like until we can get like the hack machine from celebrator, whatever, to pull this thing into that. Maybe maybe like the entire agency in the entire state owned one and they have to like wait for a few days like now IT, it'll put some pressure on their tactics that probably should be and maybe are illegal um again, IT protects all of us and this is a good thing.

Yeah so a whole bunch of verse engineering happened and then there were some takeaway and reading from reading from discus post. Turn out the infectivity remote trigger exactly after three days or seventy two hours, the iphone would do so despite being connected to wifi. This confirms my suspicion that this feature had nothing to do with wireless connect vy.

The enforcement conclusion that the remote is do to phones wirelessly communicating with each other is implausible. The older iphones before I was eighteen, likely revoted due to another reasons, such as this offer or book. Security wise is a very powerful mitigation, and attacker must have corneal code execution to prevent an an activity reboot.

This means that a forensic analysis must be able to delay the reboot for the actual data of extraction, but the initial exploit must be run within the first three days. Inactivity reboot will change the threats landscape for both theeves in francia and analysts, but asem trick so well. Our enforcement is under more time pressure. IT is IT likely completely locked out criminals from accessing your data to get into your bank account and other valuable information stored on your iphone.

It's not just not enforced ment the ones to break in to your phone, someone steals your iphone.

IT is much less valuable to them if this thing is locked and they can't resell IT, if they can somehow figure an exploit to get into your phone and state, they can harvest all your information, try to get to your passwords, get access to your email count, reset your password, drain your bank account, all that good stuff, which is another reason if you're worried about your phone being stolen or taking her hacked into, uh, don't just lock IT. Uh, you can shut IT down and put them into the before on lock state. So yeah this is a is a good feature.

Uh and it's it's this is kind of thing that apple does without really announcing, but it's just one more, uh one more a move in the cat mouse game is another reason if you care about the stuff at all till is up the updated of us because uh, the the cat, in this case, the hackers are always finding exploited. But then apple closer them, they find more than apple closes them and on on and on. And so if you have a phone that's like, oh, you're running, you know the latest version of I O S seventeen a lot has twenty five known next points, but the very latest version of IOS eighteen, all twenty five of those have been patched like that's the game.

Not not that there's none out there. There's always known being discovered, but they are patched uh, pretty quickly after they discovered in the best case. And any older phone running in older O S. Probably has a laundry list of hacks that work on IT, whether the nor you get the shorter that list of known hacks gets and a clock on the thieves of they have three days, whether they keep your phone plugged in or not, they have three days to faure how to get get insider .

and get your stuff also um I mean, no, not to make this too dark, but but I think this is important to think about because it's it's a realistic threat. Keep in mind the the direction that the U. S. Government is going in. There's a lot of data that is on our phones that the government might start wanting to look at more.

For instance, if you are in a state that that has made abortion illegal and especially the really hard core ones um that like you know any form of abortion is illegal, well, information like you've had a period or not and what happened after you didn't have one, that information could get you thrown in jail or worse. And the way we're going politically in the us, we're going to have to really start taking a lot more of the data security stuff seriously and privacy data seriously because the governments going in some wear directions and and you can get a lot worse. And and I think what we see with some of these political directions that things are heading in, like we're not that far from things getting a lot more threatening areas like that.

And so a lot of data on our phones, a lot of data in these services that we use on our phones, a lot like we we need to start building the infrastructure that if we don't already have IT, to be a lot more careful and a lot more garden and a lot more private about the stuff and a lot more secure because, you know, you might think today you might be in a place or be a kind of person where you don't feel particularly at risk for you know, government intrusion into your phone. But that can change quickly and think we are in for some of those changes in those directions, unfortunately. So there's never a Better time than now to start getting your security in order and and reviewing some of these options and some of these practices and broken things up.

You can and if you are in in the paranoid minds, have keep in mind that and the U. S, at least the current president laws that the police can force you to put your finger on touch I D, they can force you to use face I D, but they can force you to enter your best code. So if you care about the type of thing, another adventures before on lock state because face I D and touch ID don't work in that state uh and they cannot compel you to uh tell them your password yet you .

know brief question, which I don't expect you guys to know the answer to you know how um there's a trick of where on modern iphone you hold the volume up button and the lock button for a few seconds and that will disable touch I D. Does that get you into the before first unlock? I'm in no, strictly speaking, it's got to be different.

But yeah, that does lock out face I D, but that does not get you into before photo mock. We respond the episode by uncommon goods Spark something uncommon this holiday season with just the right gift from uncommon goods.

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Let's do mass tp and mr. rights. Can you guys explain how an m for ultra is expected to outperform or compete against an n video of forty ninety when an m four is just a tiny chip with a smaller heat thing? Well, the forty ninety is a triple slot GPU waites over a kilogram and consumes around four hundred watts of power. I know apples go to making chips.

but surely we're missing something here yeah. And video of forty ninety, which is I think they're current top and GPU IT is really big, really expensive as four hundred watts of power has a huge IT sink. Um and saying comparing to this, uh you know with these I M four is a tiny chip yeah the m for is a tiny chip.

The m for ultra, which doesn't exist yet. But when does exist? IT will not be a tiny chip. IT will also be a very big, very hot chip that requires a very big heat sink. Take a look at the m2 ultra and the size of heat。

Think that IT has now it's not four hundred watts, but just the level set here to try to compete with an envy of forty ninety. It's going to take a chip that is substantially larger and hotter than the m for mac money. It's gonna a have a big heat thing on IT.

It's gonna cost a lot of money. But still the question is, how can they even be in the ballpark? I did the calculation back before the m one was coming out. Um is IT possible for apple to make an apple silicon with a coin called integrated GPU as an a GPU that is on the S O C, on the die, with the all the CPU and everything that competes with the best video card that you can get, best single video card that you can get.

And and the the method I did back then was based on the rumor of the jay four sea die, the thing that would be like two ultras or four maxes put together the melt in that worked out that would have been competitive with the best single G, P, U. Video card available the time. But apple never made that chip.

They only made the m on ultra, which was two m on maxes stuck together. They never made the quad with four of them. And that's why no single apple silicon ship has ever competed with a single best top tier P, C, video card.

Now why we have insulation again, because apples were doing so well with their G P. You work that. Now when you look at the m four pro, the m for maxing, you start doing back of beyond love math.

You can be like, right? Well, if they just made an ultra one of these, they took two and four maxes and stuck them together, which again, and I don't not going to this still having seen a dict of the inform action, if I has the inter poser. But anyway, assuming the m for ultra has essentially twice the number of G, P, U course, is the m for max that starts to lauber be with in shooting distance of envy forty ninety.

But here's the other thing to consider. The empty of forty ninety is, I think the best, uh, G P U can IT today is an old card. It's about to be replaced.

But about the envy of five years, it's kind of like when all the competitors were comparing their new like the qualcomm ARM chip, everything and intel chips with the m three just before the m four came out. Yeah, that's the time you want to do that comparison because when the end video five thousand series comes out, they're going to be way faster. And I think they will maintain that lead.

How can they be? Even the in the ballpark are not sure what process in body is using. At various times, apple may have had a Better process like three three animal sus five antietam.

Um the other thing is the invited chips have lots of specialized stuff in them for applications that apple does not care about, like I don't know clipt o currency stuff like A I model training of. Apple does care about that at this point of whatever. So I I think that we're in this moment in time where you could fantasize about a ninian m four ultra is not going to come out until the V C.

Next year. Could plausibly some be somewhere in the neighborhood of the envy of forty ninety, which by the time the amphillis is out, will be last years, you know, all old news and will release by Better G P U. That's what IT comes down like.

It's great that apple is getting closer and their GPU are really good and they are amazing performance per what like the whole rest of apple silicon. But don't expect A A single uh you know a single apple S O C to trance the best uh single P C G P U available. If we can get in the ball park, that will be amazing.

But even that is going to be quite a chAllenge. So when you get down to the law a end, like if you start to the people that comparison this like you can watch the queen's video that we talked about before. We like the m four, is not like A B C, G P U, but it's pretty good for its size and power.

And when you try to compete and pricing, you get like the cheapest NVIDIA GPU or like a really low and P C G P U. The m four G P U holds on against IT a amazingly. And that is pretty amazing.

I remember the end video thing. It's on its own separate card. It's got its own separate memory that IT has the power. It's got its own separate circuitry.

And that has got to communicate to the CPU through PCI bus and old stuff, right? So lot spector overhead that you don't have when the G P. Was literally on the die with the rest of the stuff. Uh, so there are advantages.

Is that arrangement across the united metal architecture you to have separate RAM, right? Uh, but yeah I I too wish that apple would at least try to compete with a single one of the PC video cards uh when the am a was coming out I was saying you know the mac pro you could put more than one of those video cards in IT and it'll be know there's nothing that apple could do to compete with that and we were speculating if apple would produce apple silicon video cards. And so far they have not done that either.

So yeah, this is the question for my next mac. And I am going to try to get something with the big time G P U speculatively, so I can play the uh mastery ACE edition of control, a game that was three years ago, whatever. Whenever I see an apple game and also like a school, this these uh senders are reporting their games to the park and are doing a good job on the ports and have good performance and I look at the game that's like, yeah remember the game for a few years ago when to out that's not really it's good that is happening.

But that is not enough to uh turn the microphone is a game form. But anyway, apple GPU are really good and they're getting Better. Uh, but I don't think it's a fair comparison to compare the non existent and for ultra speculate of non exist empusa to the anybody of forty ninety is about to be replaced.

A couple of the things in that too, when you're comparing you know apple's highest gp configuration of an soc versus a dedicated P C G P U highest stand model, there's a couple of factors that are also worth considering. The number one, apple strategy of making these associations and making the larger ones when you go from m for maxed and for ultra, personally, they are going to do a similar actually, they have done with m one and two ultra. They kept them three where they just copy everything. You just get two maxes glue together.

We don't know if we haven't seen if there's an still open there.

right? Like that is how I did the M N N M two ultras. So presumably that that is likely to be one of the ways they might do this. Um IT will be the most likely way they might do this. So if they do, you know, keep mind that as you try to scale up this design, you're also doubling a whole bunch of other stuff on that trip. That is not just the GPU course if they were to make a higher and configuration for GPU purposes specifically.

And instead of having two m four max at each other, if they just extended the m four max to have just a huge about more GPU cores, but not doubling the neural engine, the CPU cores, the media engines, like all the other stuff, is on the dime. They could fit way more GPU cores than they could be doubling the entire trip. So if they did that kind of thing, maybe that would be like that would be closer to what the forty ninety and those kind of GPS are.

Those those are just G, P, U. So those are spending all of that dice space and all of that vantage and all that power and all of those terrible manufacturing yids. Those are spending all those resources only for more GPU ban with. And course, if one of the reasons the .

rumor is that they might not be taking two inform maxes and sticking them together is because one of the downside, historical downsides of taking two maxes and sticking them together is that apple hasn't gotten linear scaling on doubling the G, P. U. Cars and presumed ly because of like essentially overhead of the interpos'd and signaling across that barrier and ross communication.

So even though you doubled the number of gp course, you don't get straight up doubling of the speeches. But you would expect for something like a GPU with the massively parallel loads uh and IT could be the the interconnect like there are too far apart from my hell, there has to communicate across the interpos'd IT is IT is impeding their ability to scale the way you d want to. So again, no, I don't know what they actually going to do. I haven't seen any rumors about IT. Uh, that's why I wanted see that show of the inform, max, because there's no way, proposer, we know that definitely not doing that.

Yeah the to consider is like when you're looking at when you're comparing against the highest stand for the highest GPU for the current high and family of the video of whatever you know, the way these G P S work, similar to how G P S work.

But I think to to an even empt up degree these days in this market is you have like the low end and the mid drage configurations of of these GPU families and they take much more reasonable uh, baLances of power and heat versus performance. When you try to scale up performance of a computer ship, Normally you're doing that like you have a certain family and you do a bit either. Making more of those cores, you know making the chip bigger or you ramp up the clock speed of those cores or both.

When you ramp up clock speeds, the relationship between performance and heat is not linear. Heat goes up way faster than performance. So there's always like a sweet t spot. We are like the mainstream GPU, the mainstream chips.

Those will be you know tune in a certain sweet spot where like they're getting pretty good performance for a nice reasonable amount of of heat that the and efficiency that they can get. All of apple's chips in this family, all of the m serious chips, they stay in that envelope, they don't push. So the m4 ultra is， in all likelihood, probably not going to be cracked up to four hundred watts.

They could if they wanted to design chips to do that, they could design chips in that direction. But they don't. They keep these ships within like the the sweet spots of heat to performance. But when in video releases GPU, they have chips are in those sweet spots. But they also will sell you a high end model that is way outside of that sweet spot where I might use four times the power, the lower in model .

to get that extra five percent .

of performance and maybe get twice the .

performance for something like twice.

usually not yet. So like so it's but so when you compare IT to one of those chips, those chips are designed with completely different tradeoff in mind to achieve totally the whole point of the four ninety and of the whatever ninety serious GPU. The whole point is just give us the most performance you possibly can power sizing cost be damped right up to the point .

where the card crashes and then back IT off a little, right?

But apple does not design their chips away because they don't design their machines that way. And they don't want. And especially we want, you know, talking about carbon. New reality is the last thing they want.

and the only machine they have they could handle that is the mac pro, because every other computer that they have is so tiny and has limited cooling or whatever. So the only you can put a far anything into any mac, except for the mac pro, every other one will melt like that. The cool lers aren't enough.

When you look at like the what PC cases have to accommodate in order to have one of these GPU in IT, it's ridiculous. Like and there are markets for that, but those are not markets apple cares at all. Like apple doesn't care about the super high and gamer market.

Uh, you know that's gonna buy these G P U. Obviously, apple care about that market. They I mean worker, they shut up, but they don't. So you're comparing very different things when you when you're compare when you're trying to say apple should match their performance or should be in the ballpark of the performance of this super high in video PC gaming GPU. Like there's a lot of reasons why that's a very different kind of comparison.

Yeah, that's why I like the the the m one extreme that never came, the form access together that one would have been in the ballpark. Now I think people are thinking maybe the end for ultra be in the ball park at the forty eight because we're the end of an vy generation because of the rumor is about the infrastructure so vague the people can fantasies about. Imagine if the evolved or had this number of Christ.

And like, I mean, you could just keep multiplied number, of course, by you know the number of uh you know floating point Operations or what everything you you're choosing to judge by. But yeah um I like the hope is again for the mac pro that they will ship a chip that actually require this case because they didn't do that before they give the same chip work. Just find in a max studio and that is an entirely a waste of the massive cooling capacity of the mac pro. So we'll see how that goes probably a next summer. W.

T, C, keep up alive. John, keep up alive. Antic boyson rides with macos recent switch from a nas to a mac mini first primary storage and my plans to do the same in the near future. I was wondering ing about file integrity.

Macos is marka worried about file integrity or bit rod on his external drives, while apfelbaum dern file system, as discussed on previous episode IT lacks any functionality when IT comes to file integrity checking or scrubbing. These features are available in B T R F S or button fs on the snowy z fs. I've read a bit on the topic, but i'm still not clear how big of a problem this could be, if at all.

And if having redundancy rate and or backup PS changes anything in this equation, apple seems to think that on internal cities and modern max, that isn't a big concern. The others have a different view, especially when IT comes to possibly lower quality external hard drives or st um then we will link to a post from twenty sixteen from adam, each eleven on a fs that talks about this yana continue. So the second question is, in john's opinion, should marco and die be worried about this? And is a dedicated nas still the best option? Is the primary personal storage? Or can I be demoted to back up duties only without any problems, even for storing data in the long term? So mark, are you worried? No.

I figured your john. So we want to be worried.

Well, maybe that's right now.

Well, so we've discuss this before. Special, when I P F S was coming out. These data and territory cures the the features that they are talking about is specially like um is any part of the file system or the computer checking that the bits that were written to IT are the ones they're reading back if you write some bits to IT and they wait two years and they read the bits back, is there any part of the system that says, hey, are these debts that I wrote two years ago or have they changed since then? Or does IT just say, hear the bits on the desk here you go with, no, no knowledge.

You can't have any knowledge of like, have they changed since I wrote them there? Like one of those bits flip because the cow here, there is something some bug, something like that data integrity. The F S.

Was real pioneer on this um IT was a file system and whole you know the the whole stack for the F S was uh designed with features that let IT know when anything has gone wrong. There's a bad driver. There is a bad disk. There's a cosmic ray. There's a software problem.

Any kind of thing that could go wrong in the entire stack between your storage device, your computer, your CPU, you know, bad memory in casey, anything like that? Z, F S would catch IT because the F, S had checked s on all of the data. And so if anything changed, uh, IT would say, hey, something about these bits is is often a correct small errors.

If you had redone in storage of the same data, you could say, okay, well, the data of this one is bad, but I have some of the same data on desk two and IT looks like good on disk two and i'll write back to this once and now is good in both places again that is dated integrity um I like that feature uh and I really wished that apple's next generation false system have IT fs does not have IT um as part of the system stacks so and one A P F S rites in data and then reads the back two years later IT has no way to know if that data has changed after hundred and has no way to know if the data, uh was perfectly fine on the desk but then that hit a bad part of RAM and then IT was gave back to your programme and it's all scrambled because IT came through a bad piece of grammar. Has no way of knowing any of that because he doesn't do these things. So there are third party utilities to say, okay, if the first thing is not going to do IT, for me is something I can do, can I like write a bunch of little checks, files in each directory that has check sums of all the files that are in that directory? So I read them later.

I'll also read the checking file. And I sort of do the same thing that the fs are doing under the covers, but manually with a bunch of files. Yeah, you can do that. There's a bunch of utilities that that do that.

Why would you want to do this? Why do you care? Uh, because in general, if you have lots and lots of data stored somewhere you probably care about, like say, your family photos, your family photo library, you don't want to go and read those photos.

Five years from now, your favorite photo and IT starts rendering half way through the image. IT cuts often, and it's just a gray or snow for the rest of the image because the j pig is corrupt. That or something.

And how could that happen? Bit rot, cosmic, raise bugs, bad memory, bed desk, like so many things, could cause that to happen. The detection of that happening is step one in fixing IT.

So if so, obviously, if your data going to go bad, what you want is you wanna know that it's bad and that's important. For example, when you're doing backup PS, because if you don't know that it's bad and you're doing back up, you've got a cloud back up. If you got a local back up, you got time machine, you didn't back up everywhere.

If things are going bad, you're just backing up the bad data to seventeen different places. And in fact, maybe the good data was in your time machine back up, but then you overall, with the bad data and slowly IT pushed off the good day off the end, because, you know, you can only fit so much on your time machine. Descries pushes the old versions of the end.

And now you have a good data. But you've since over ten, there were seventeen new versions of the bad data because the file system in the Operations and some everything have no way of known that they are taking bad data and pushing into the cloud, taking bad data and pushing IT to your time machine back up. They just think here the data here IT is they don't know is good or it's bad is just this is what came back from the desk.

So here you go, right? That's why you want this detection. And the second part of IT is redundancy. If you have both detection and redundancy, IT can detect when there is a problem and fix the problem and warn you about IT.

So I can fix IT with a redone and date and warn you about IT, right? This is question about like RAID and everything. RAID is not a back of strategy.

RAID can help save you from. Just going bad or not not data going bad. There is no may be you know that is a difference between two things that don't know which right depending on how which ray love using.

If you using read five, the check cm is red one where is just duplicating stuff um that can help a little bit. But uh a file system that enforces this is what you really want. I think butter F S um can do IT for data and meta data separately.

But you really want IT for both the meta data, what keeps track, all your files are and then data is like keeping make sure the data is good. Now as for whether marker should be worried, probably not because there is not really much point in wearing ing about something you can do anything about. That's the bad part here. Like there's no I cook .

a hit by a bus.

Yeah like what like it's a shame that apple storage stack doesn't have any other integrity features other than like you know the basics of like uh eric correction in the S S D and and redone stories of like that soul under the covers.

But in the end IT is not end end like securely checking that your data is good and there's not much you can do but apparent vely speaking all the solutions that like write a bunch of check some files or whatever, they are cumbersome. Owners don't work in all situations like they don't work with time machine, really be backing up the checks, some files, character from the regular files. I don't think you can be sure that they d even be in think with each other and you're just going to be adding more files that like that system is is difficult to write a system like that reliably.

The third party tools that do IT can be good for targeted use, like just as folder are going to be sure if you know secure. But like for things like your eye lid photo library, you don't even really have good access to the um I mean, they're buried in there somewhere in the original folder in these all UUID have things. But like the photos APP manages those files.

If you try to put something on top of that to tries to keep track of all the files in your photo library and right checks ms to them and corporate them, you're just going to eat so many false positives from your system not working, right? That there's no there's nothing I can recommend that you do that's going to save you from this. I mean, one of the things is like i'll keep your data in motion constantly, be coping IT from place to place to place so that when something goes bad or rots, you have good copy.

Summer, that's kind of the best we can do, but it's just a it's a race condition. Have you been moving your data around at the right time such that you didn't just spread the corruption everywhere, right? Is not going to be the case where he goes bad hearing like all but I A good copies here, here, here you want to even know when are bad and be by the time you do know when the bad, the bad thing is probably in all your places.

So that argues for potentially doing what marco did once, and i've done once with just like, you know, right things out to a blue ray m disk and put in the draw. If that happens to have the good copy of that data, then nothings ever going to change data. It's not it's not going to get over written by a subsequent backup, right? But if that has the bad data, well, then you know tough luck.

So the question is we should all not be we should all know that this is a possibility. But unfortunately for us, there is not really anything we can recently do as an end user to fix this, which is why it's on apple to eventually get its button year and do and fix this. I was so happy they did A P, F, S.

For years. I've been hammering on them for like they need a modern file system. If you have, this is a modern file system. It's great. I love IT.

It's just not everything that I could have been for, for some good reasons, because a lot of these day in features hinder performance and take more memory in this audio, right? But eventually, if I live long enough, when you doing this podcast long enough, i'm gonna hammering them to say, you know, at apple, it's time for you to have a modern file system, maybe if this was great back in twenty, whatever, but now it's twenty forty something, and it's time for you to have a found them with their integrity. Uh, I will say, yeah.

And again, it's a shame that like B T R F S has A, Z F S has a, like there's just things do have a um and as for nash, as uh you know, as primary personal storage, I wouldn't use any network attach storage as primary personal storage, you should use directly attached internal or external S S S for your personal storage and use the ask more for backup um and for date integrity yeah if you can have an ask the users of file system that has da integrity checking on IT that can help you detect corruption and potentially corrected depending on which fast you can buy an ask that uses the F S. That has all these features on IT, you don't only care about the performance is just a big back up. I would recommend that that's one of the advantages of having a nas is or just any kind of separate computer that's not an apple computer that is running a file system has stated integrity checking and using IT to make backup PS.

Keep in mind that if you carefully put your corrupt data there, IT will carefully preserve your crop the data, because that was the data that IT was run. IT thinks that's the right, right data. Sorry, you have to be careful your back ups. If you push the old backup PS off the end periodic ly, you will always end up spreading your corruption everywhere before you find out that your favor picture of you kid, when they were two is have corrupted.

Cool also make prints and print books.

because that's another, another hedge against this. You know, if you lose all your day there, your own favor picture is corrupted. But you printed five, eight by tens and there and frames on your walls, even if they're like U V, bleached, it's still Better than nothing.

Thank you to your response. Or this week, square space and uncommon goods. Thank you to our members to support us directly. You can join A, T, P, F, M, slash, join. One of the many perks of membership is atp over time, our weekly bonus topic this week, over time we're gonna get dress. The question you know earlier we we're talking about, uh, apple Prices and the storage of grade Prices and everything.

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Take me to ask to. So long decided .

I needed another project. This many people know that I talked couple of years ago about, like putting fiber in the houses is nothing like that. I still wanted do that at some point.

I am still kicking that can over and over and over again, I needed something that is far more cost effective to work on and a far shorter a stretch of time to complete IT. The problem statement is this follows because I hate myself. I'm a fan of the new york giants.

New york giants is a, is a football team, A N foobar team in american football. Am, their record is currently for the season two wins and eight losses. IT has not been a good football season, but i've been giants fans to remember.

And although not a super duper duper fan, I generally prefer to be able to watch the giants when I can. The way the N F fell works is that typically there's only only three or four games that are happening concurrently. Often times to may be only wanted to typically played on sunday afternoons.

And if you live in the region near where the foot all teams based, you will likely receive a broadcast of the game. Um if you are out of market like I am, then IT is pretty unlikely you will receive a broadcast of the game unless they're playing your local team. So for me, my local team is the washington commanders, once known as the washington red skins, which thankful ly was finally changed because is IT a very problem tic name.

And so if the giants play the command ders, which does happen, then I will get the game. But otherwise it's unusual for me to get a giant the giants game. The is the easy solution of this problem is the marco solution, which is to throw piles of money in the problem and fix IT.

And you do that by subway bing, not only to youtube TV, which is not an insight ant cost, but also and I fl sunday ticket, which is hundreds and hundreds of dollars per cent on top of the cost of youtube v and I don't want to do that. I'd like the giants. I don't like a very much.

And I thought there must be a way around this problem. There must be a way I can fix this with technology and a smaller application of money. So, so far, any questions and or theories about how I am attempting to solve this problem?

I mean, I I don't know anything about sports. The only thing I know is that people will do very ridiculous things to get their sports. The the most common solution is usually just to pay a bunch of money for them. Somehow you're some kind of cable or whatever subscription and bent tomson.

who is not a lot to spending money to do A A bussing solution to this, I believe so he lives in taiwan, but he wants to see his local team and wisconsin. I believe he has a residency in wisconsin. He has a bug of wear running that hardware gets the game because it's in wisconsin.

And then he sends IT over the internet to in his home and diiulio, he sees IT. I think he uses a slingbox or use uses a slingbox. So casey, do you have a relative who lives in the new york metro area where the giants are local and you could put a box in their house that gets the game and then sends.

is this going to be something where, like, you're like your account to be under my seat and minute I find like this all the, oh my god.

what's this marker wants to be doing is, is a nurse mating a piece of hardware that records football and sense of the casey. So that might be the first.

So spoil alert that may be the end of this discussion, but that's not worth going on yet. So yes, let me at all snark in kidding aside, the remainder of this topic is probably going to sound like Spark on. It's not this is handy, god me trying to solve a problem for myself.

And I just so happens that i'm going to use tools that I know in love in order to do IT. But this is not sponsored. This is me just doing this .

because I want to is one con, something people say is that's disgusting .

sponsored content. That is not this. This is one hundred percent my own thoughts. And nobody y's compensate to me in any way you perform. So I apologize that that comes across as love letters, anything, because it's not if if they are love letters, because I really wrote them, so to speak. But anyways, so the solution, this problem, is yet taking a page out of benton son playbooks.

So what bin does now as far as unaware, he has one or perhaps more small pcs or perhaps mac mines or something that are physically installed in one or more places around the country. And I think you're right, john, that that was constant from the mistake and cut. I hope that right is the home base.

And I believe he does have a residence there where he has A A like a knock in nc, you know, a small like effectively the PC equivalent of a mac, many, or something like IT. And he has an hd home run one. There are several flavors of hd home run, but all of them, the point is basically to convert a either cable TV feed or an intent a feed into something, into something that's on the network.

So it's kind of a bridge between either an intangible or cable to your network. And actually, we pay for television service with verizon files here, enrichment. And I have an h two home run. No, I have to get the name, the model and two home run prime.

We've talked about this in past that i've put a cable card into, and that is as closest I come to a cable box, I have an hd home run with a cable card, and I use and APP called channels, which I think sponsored once, maybe twice in the past. But hand to got, I genuinely love this APP, and i'm actually personal friends with one of the the people who wrote IT. So i'm pretty disposed to like this APP, but it's really an incredible APP.

And so what channel does is it's a dvr basically that will serve no slip down. All the stuff that the hd home one is sending IT and IT will either record IT or display IT alive. You can do black style like watch your TV from somewhere else.

And this is the same offer that ban is using as far somewhere. This is very much in the spirit of slingbox, but you know, much more modern tech, top to bottom. So I have a friend that lives in southwestern connective, and he is an I would call in at work administrator by trade.

He would probably bristle that description, but he does this sort of thing for living. And he has deeply over over provisions, networking equipment at his house, because this is what he does. We're living.

And so I bought a small until neck try to puts some weeks on the shown notes if he should have even remember what the things called. But IT was like one hundred and thirty dollars off amazon. And IT is more than overkill for what I need.

It's a billing and ninety five intellects alth to one two th many PC mini ax. Ah, so this is three and a half giger hurts. Eight gigs of RAM in two hundred and fifty six gig SSD.

And this is what I IT came with. Windows on IT immediately killed windows. Put a bunch on IT and then put channels on IT.

And so I have this, I have an hd home and connect, which is one of the H. D. Home run, that that you can connect a intendo.

And I bought in over the eternal, and I said all this up here in the house, and i've got IT working so that, you know, the channels could see the H D home on the h home and could see local channels here. Enrichment and everything is working. great. Thanks to some help for my friend john.

who was I love that my solution is viewed as the throwing money at the problem you're talking about. Like hundreds of dollars worth of hardware.

Here was like two hundred box only.

Have you heard about how he opens the closest gardar or not? Even opening clothes, how how we can tell whether the government door, which opening clothes through a different mechanism, is in fact .

open our can confirm. So this is I mean as much as i'm getting a little grimley, marco, your point is fair. Um it's a one time fee of roughly two hundred box as compared to paying like four hundred dollars every single season for nfl sunday ticket. So the theory is I solve the problem once and that's that and I never have to work about worry Better again.

That's always you will never have to worry about IT again for sure. That's how computers work.

Exactly true of luu trunk.

everything else also not spin con. But I should .

keep the time running when I got that thing installed IT in my house and put black tape over all the lights and through IT behind my TV .

i've never touched IT ever tell you it's incredible uh so so yes so I set all this up locally and then you have to do some kind of acrobats s to get the channels on the neck, the, and you say the little PC, to get the channel server there to basically broadcast to my primary channel server, which is running on my m one mac. Many here at the house in order to get those two to communicate with each other.

But the idea is that the stuff that's coming off the anti na would then just be additional now using an overlook to turn additional television channels that, that are available within these channels at. Hopefully that makes sense. So that all worked here when I was on my same network.

But then of course, I need to be able to put this on somebody else's network. So enter a former in recent sponsor tail scale. Um they have paid me to say nice things about them, but not in this case.

This is me just genuinely being excited about tail scale. I got taye scale set up that all work great. And so IT all appears as though, you know, everything is on the same land, even that really isn't all good.

So I bocks ed everything up. I ship IT to my friend Shawn and arrived today, and sometime shortly before I shipped everything. I think john is said to me, hey, have you looked at this? And he links me too.

I think it's an ftc database that's like, here's the director or the digital TV over the other digital TV maps here in the states d TV. Reception maps. And he says to me, I don't think I get a lot of over the air stuff and if you look at this map, it's not good, bob.

Uh.

so he says this may not go the way you think it's going to go. I said it's fine, if nothing else is a project in an academic exercise. So he gets all this stuff today.

He he gave me my own private little v land on top of his network because again, this is the sort of thing he does for a living. And you everything set up, he he plugs in you my neck and IT boots up. It's jumps right on my tail net everythings good to go IT cons IT IT connects and communicates with the hd home run.

I'm able to use some slightly advanced features of tail scale that let me hop onto the hd home run even though IT doesn't have tail scale on IT you I do. And so i'm able to tell the hd home run, all right, go ahead and search for channels and IT does IT and IT comes up with like eight of them. And then I go to start tuning in to these channels and I see that one of them, I think, was abc.

But I won't actually play IT because apparently the signals two week, I think one of them might have been nbc. But I won't actually play that because signals too weak, IT said. There's something that channels thought was fox, but is some like weird foreign affairs channel.

And that comes in great baby. But that's useless for what i'm trying to accomplish. And if you are curious this coming sunday, the giants are playing, I forget who, but they're playing a game that will be broadcast on cbs.

I will give you one guess, gentlemen, what channel wasn't even offered as a weak possibility at john's house? Cbs, so I don't know what i'm going to do, but this academic exercise, the infrastructure of IT work perfectly. Chef kiss, unfortunately, I need to on to .

move because that might be cheaper to just by .

season of whatever, whatever. sure. fact. Bi, but but you're cbs over the air doesn't shown to get cbs not over the air in some .

capacity well. And so funny, bring that up because some of the things that we have been discussing up until the time we started recording were, hey, sean might decide to ditch his t vos. Sean is Younger than I am, but he has the spirit of an eighty old.

And so he is still clinging to his geos john and he said, you know, maybe I will take what I think is two of them. And he said, maybe take the cable card out of one of those and put IT in the hd home, runs the hd home on that accepts the cable card, and maybe he'll use channels for his own separate purposes. Go because he wants to.

He was thinking about going down this path for his own reasons. And then I could, my channel server could also find that same hd hometown on the local networking of vila outstanding. And I could, I would only need one of the four tunes that IT has available to IT, and only on certain times on sundays, and maybe everyone would be happy.

Unfortunately, silicon dust to use the manufacturers of hd home run stopped. I seem to have stopped making the hd horrors that accepts the cable card. So you can only come up with the second hand, which I alarming.

And cable companies aren't giving how cable cars anymore either. And there, as they break, they probably I can replace them. I would actually think think of getting rid of one of my cable cars, but haven't quite done IT, but the ranks of the wall for cable card.

But yeah, so one of the things we were talking about is if he can come up with his own H E. Home and connect, which he takes a cable card and maybe held to a channel installation of the zone. And then I can just kind of occasionally borrow one of the two nurse on his hd home run.

Another thing he was talking about, his. Maybe he if he could create like a secondary log in on his cable provider just on their online systems. And either I could use their APP to potentially watch new his cable from here, which is actually made easier because of a different feature of tail of tail scale, where I can basically have my internet egress be through this knock.

That's a his house. So from a geographic perspective, i'm entering the internet in connect cut. So that's a possibility. It's not my preferences.

Y i'm trying to do this and up and up like well as much as I can be because I shipped hardware to ham. It's great getting IT over the air was that was the hope. And so and it's so forth.

There's also we're also going to look into a TV everywhere is the thing which is kind of like sort of kind of spiritually like youtube TV, but not at all youtube TV, where you can use your cable provider to get access to a bunch of channels. I don't know if his cable providers supports that, but maybe you know, I could I could have log in or even have him log in on channels that at his house. So I don't even need to see his credentials or whatever.

And we might try that. But I will say, marco, that I did just for Greens and gigs, look at what the reception would be like at the new place on long island. I got to tell you, being very close to manhattan means that you got a lot options, a lot options, although I don't think that cbs was wanted them, if I recall correctly. But but, but you do have quite a few options if you do believe the ftc little website thing. And so depending on how this works out with Shawn, I might attempt to call on a favor that's to be determined.

Fair enough.

we will say, but I don't know. I was I thought I thought, if nothing else, IT was a fun academic exercise in little baby project to see could this be done. And i'm genuinely very pleased with the result from the perspective of, you know, I got everything set up here in the house.

I had him basically plug a few things into the wall, log in a couple of things to eat the net, and everything just works to no problem in that respect. The problem is, I need him to move. I don't think he's going to be do with that, but there was a fun little project of nothing else. So maybe, maybe hell ship this stuff back to me, maybe all ship IT to you if you let me will argue about that another time, but we'll see what happens. There's there's other other alternatives and avenues to try.

although it's finny Normally speaking of all your ridiculous tvs um for many years part of my thankful skiving celebration was messaging casey the morning of thanksgiving, saying, hey, my family is trying to figure out how to watch the parade kay, how do we do that and a lot of times the answer was you would like give me access to your whatever TV bouncing situation you had.

IT was a slingbox for many years, but you even asked in the last couple years very recall .

correctly because what what's happened in the meantime is that whatever network runs, IT just has an APP that you run an apple TV and that is broadcast to do IT. So it's no longer necessarily to use your crazy hacks for that. But thank you for all those years of .

serving course that he was that in the dog show, right?

If i'm not yeah yeah the parade than the doctor that follows IT.

Now i'm happy to be of service. Might you might be repaying that you in the future? We shall see. We shall see hopefull. I'll find a different mechanism, but we shall see.

I got a lot of room in the garage.