610: More Values in the Darkness
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We have a follow up item that we have just been told that we aren't allowed to do.

Where start, we're starting tonight with violence.

I say I I would not agree that character zone. I would say I was suggested that we not spoil one of our member specials, an enticement for people to become members, because then they already know what happens, but now they have to become members to find out. And that was my suggestion, not an edict, not a command, but a suggestion.

Let's just say listeners that in the latest member special about the the tear list for storage media, one of the hosts of the show was down on the medium for being apparently unreliable.

I, could you character down exactly? How down was this host? This was me. How down like, like after that, what you're talking about what here would you said?

We've had people right in who who've basically written to say things like i've read a thousand of them recently and they volt in fine anyway. So all is to say we we don't want to spoil what this is. But rest assured listeners, we are getting your feedback and two of the three of us really appreciate .

two thirds of your hosts are very excited.

So that's interesting because what I was going to say is I also see all the feedback, and I think the feedback is pretty much evens ly, no, very much evenly split. No.

admitted. All three of us have biases and players here. But IT hand to god, to my eyes, IT has been, at best, one third in favor of the host who shower in my name is that is still very wrong. And two thirds in favor of the other two thirds of the show.

I didn't actually count them because I didn't think I get in a resistance to this because I was so clear. But the feedback and i'm getting that it's pretty evenly split. But .

again.

well, maybe we should count them up. Here's here's one of the problems we're getting feedback and missed on is that we all see the stuff that that mentions A T P F M. But I only see the stuff that just that mentioned me, and you only see the stuff that I just that mentions you. They were actually not looking at the same pool. So that does complicate things.

That is true. I will can see that. And he would not surprise me if you're flying monkeys were quick to report .

you like monkeys were .

more times they. I pace that one of them in the slack for you to see with I because as why to understand the point of of you saying, look, people's wrote in in support of my position I say, yeah they were in support of my position to what's .

your point it's like ever split see .

IT doesn't ter where people vote. That only matters what the reality is. And I contend that my reality .

is closer to the real one. Wow, your reality, your reality is exactly that. Just hear me out for second. Your reality is your reality. And in the thing that you were saying was that your and I think he was murder in that hates this phrase, but I don't, I can't think Better one, your lived experience, i'm not here to be in your lived experience.

and I experienced, shared by many others written in there, doesn't to echo there exactly they written in and they say, hey, yeah, the things, that drama thing, I also experience that and that's what that way.

But there were also many, many, many people who said, you're out your darline again.

I think IT was roughly evenly split either way. The main point is a not I surely you will concede that enough people rode in and support my position and you could determine that it's not just the missing.

Yes, I would say it's not just you think I don't debate that your experience with this particular medium was probably crummy.

Now we may or may not get too later like, dear, how crime don't .

don't you're killing .

me with this you're like of this is a thing that draw hates and whatever and it's like, no.

no listeners rest assured you should listens this member special it's it's I think it's one of the best things we ever done.

You've never heard people be more angry to receive an a grade on a paper.

You know, I was trying not toilet got to.

you know, you know, talking, we be talking about sandwiches.

I know we're talking about the printing press. On the printing press.

IT is a printing press in a matter of speaking.

maybe slightly hyperbolic.

So it's so much to say if this is that using to you listeners, if this is amusing to you at Peter less just .

do you have strong feelings against storage media puts.

you will listen to the right podcast why do we do .

we have the member special for you?

Ah we could not kidding. We could spend the next two and half hours continuing to relitigate this today.

John is ours.

We can do another one. And I know that john, you would be here for, did I know that marker would be too? So anyway, but i'm going to try to move a spowart let's talk about the ipad mini and could not quote jelly scrolling and let me start by asking you either of you have the ipad many six, the one that was before the ipad many eight, seventeen, and what of the .

current one is seven?

Yeah, yeah. Because I haven't had ipad million years, so I never experiences this.

The only one who has the chance is marco in his jaws.

I, I had IT. I have since traded IT in for other credit to upgrade, but that's the one that I tried using for a little while in ear. I I know about the jellyfish wing effect of people said they had.

I never went looking for IT, but I never noticed IT because I didn't want to hate this thing i'd bought. And I knew about this potential problem at times. I didn't like strugling up and down in portrait mode to try to get the effect to show up.

I just used IT. And in my just usage of IT, I did not notice the problem that people say. That isn't to say that I was there. A lot of people did see IT, but I was not noticeable enough for me in my usage.

I'd saw in an apple star when this story first came out. I don't think this was the first money to have issue. I I can see IT if I look for IT um i'm not entirely sure would bother me, but I can definitely see IT without slovo. Video just like going to an apple store, five of these old ones so like okay, see what they're getting .

um I have a message from inside one of your houses that somebody he's a little grumpy that marko and I were politicking during the member special so if that is also appealing to you, please feel free to go .

eighty to change. Somewhat connected.

But yes, I mean I think that by virtue of S T. Requiring a unionist decision, I think that, that implies that political is part of the game.

I know you know everyone is going to do this in their heart.

I would also argue that, first of all, that somebody in Jones house might be upset about, you know text being middle against john that there might be a little bit biased. But also I think casey and I just discovered our power for the first time.

You know, it's it's you're only hurting yourself. That's why everyone is going to make their own choices .

for the record. Well, I don't want to go any further. I told that I see. I let myself get roll back.

And I said, when you don't messes my wife you recording.

I am saying that was IT, by the way.

to make my wife is as BIOS in favor of supporting me. I'm not even sure cases is conversation my wife would support .

that theory that's actually, I can confirm that. I think of all the bias these tina may have in favor of john might be the best .

on the usually shows an our side although .

my my friend did message me today and he wanted to tell you that, want me to tell you that john from from bulgarian says that should be in be here donation.

So I did seem like a lot of people point to the quality of what you bought as a large factor. Um and look, i'm just saying I bought the good ones. I said, well.

that kind of in support of my argument when there's a lots of different variables and not all those combinations results in success, it's like how many the combinations result in good things and how many the commons result in bad things. And if too many the combinations result in bad things that produces people who have poor experiences perhaps, you know, distributed throughout the massive of people who did IT. And I just think it's there were too many combinations ation that resulted in bad things, and that someone of dignity for dignity, all way down, all way down to the terrible tear that that ends up, up .

anyway, letting I do this myself, I can't. I have nobody to blame with the mirror. So anyway, apparently most of the ipad many seven A K A, the ipad mini seventeen pro say that jEllies scrolling is fixed.

However, I was the David piers. I believe that the verge said, quote, the jellyfish wing effect from the last model still very much present. Um this is with so what is jEllies scrolling? It's referring to screen tearing.

I'm sorry i'm reading from macromedia refers to screen tearing which can cause texture images on one side of the screen to appear to be tilted downwards because of mismatch and refresh rates. IT can cause one side of the display to look as if IT is responding faster than the other side, resulting of visual disturbance of eternal phrase that is hard to ignore. Once noticed, it's like atheistic logo. The effect is noticeable on the ipad many six when the device is used in portrait orientation, leading to complaints from customers over the past three years. Shortly after the ipad many six was launched, an apple spokesman told us technical that, quote, code jEllies scrolling was Normal behavior for ipad with c LCD displays, given that lcds refresh, refresh as well lined by line, there is a tiny delay between when the lies of the top in the lines of the bottom are refreshed.

So yeah, so the story is that pretty much everybody who view the new ipad mini prentice es, a seventeen pro that hey, jelly growling is fixed, but the virt says totally not fixed. I haven't seen one of these person, so I can't say one of the other, but it's interesting to see any kind of split in this because again, if it's noticeable and I think that is if you're looking forward, it's weird that most of the reviews would say that is fixed.

Uh, I we'll see if we ever if you ever end up in an apple star, go find the new ipad mini and see if that jealous is throwing is still there again. Honestly, it's like even though I can see IT if i'm looking for IT for something like an ipad, many I don't think I would worry too much about IT. Like it's not it's a small screen. Maybe you're not going to be watching big hy fidelity movies on and be worried about that when you're scrolling your timely I do not like everyone has their own tolerance, but be aware that I did exist and that, according to the verge, anyway, IT may still exist.

A last episode I was wondering, hey, is this fifteen, seventeen, whatever minute, uh, short film submerged? Is that available to watch or at least in part during the vision prodest o Kevin marcum, right in. I did a vision pro demo on october fourteen, which was apparently four days after emerged was released.

I was indeed able to watch the emerge during the demo. There was a much shortened version, perhaps three minutes long, that showed the crew trying to save themselves from water rushing into the suburb siler alert. There's no indication that I was watching an excerpt from a larger or exceeding longer film.

Rather, I thought I was just a random movie like seen designed specifically to show off the capabilities of the vision pro. We had a couple of people right in later to say something similar. I've also heard we've also heard a couple of reports that um that apparently the the demonstrations are far less on the rails than they were originally.

If you were call, we were all talking about how I don't member, I don't think marko, you did a demo but certain in john, I did and they were vary on the rails like you have you should do this. You should do that. You should.

You should do that. Let me show you this. Let me show you that. And now, apparently, I think they still have a bit of a script, but there are much more willing to let you experiment, as per a handful people of women.

And there's more stuff. I mean, they are adding this movie in. I'm sure there's other there's just more content than they had.

And day one, oh yes, in speaking of, uh, there is another civil real this time for baseball for the NBA all star weekend uh, which was I presume many months ago. Uh, this is similar to the super ball thing, which is a football fan, despite the fact that is a terrible sport in zillion ways. As a foot all fan, I loved the super bold as a real.

And even though I didn't really have any particular love either the teams, I am a former basketball fan. I just have really paid attention in a long, long time. And this is real. The also, we can really freaking good. It's really good.

And this is, this is the the I don't know that economy, but the the issue with vision pro is that when it's good, it's so we can do IT IT really, really is what the problem is. It's five minutes at a time, fifteen minutes at a time. If you happen to watch a movie because and if you're plug into the wall, it's also really good.

You know, if you're doing the mac visual display thing, IT is incredibly good, but I don't know if it's still thirty five hundred dollars. good. We don't need to relitigate that. Now i'm saying there is so much to love about this device and IT bumps me out that it's not catching on. I get IT, I totally get IT, but IT does bomb out.

In fact, there is a report I probably forget to put in the shows, but there is report a report I saw earlier today, I think I saw on mac rumors, and then I was echoed elsewhere that allegedly apple has built enough vision, prose, something to the order of, like, five hundred thousand of them, something like that. I'm doing this off the dome. So if forgive me, I get this wrong. But apparently they built an efficient, proves that they don't think they'll need to build anymore after this year, and they'll be able to ride that straight through most all of next year, too.

I think the story was that they were going to stop building them now for the remain of the year like, but got enough now to last them for the rest of twenty twenty four. I think that was the story.

Okay, I found IT. I'm not read right now, but I will put in the shown notes. I thought I was something like that end and I didn't think they were going to build any in twenty twenty five either.

But either way, be if john's rider, I am right, IT doesn't really matter. You get the gist is that they've apparently built a lot more than they need, which is really too bad, because IT is such a cool and incredibly impressive device. Aster diggers, double digger.

did you see? I remember one of the stats from that story was that how many they were building per day and they said they were currently building a thousand per day. Yeah, it's like and they used to be building two thousand per day, but they lowered to a thousand per day and they're going to stop.

That just gives you an idea of the numbers here that you're build in, in a thousand a day. Maybe you really are running demand at this point. So yeah, maybe stop.

Yeah, I like casey. I'm down on the vision for a lot on the show, but I I do want you to succeed like I I think it's a cool idea. I I think IT was executed with some choices that I would have made very differently.

And I think I hope apple has seen what you know, that the direction they they went with this was probably wrong in a few pretty big ways. But I they built a lot of useful tech, and I think I can be kind of pivoted into something cooler. I think they have two big chAllenges with what they have right now. Number one is like, how do you kind of pave with your hardware that into something does closer what people want? A number two, in the meantime, when you have in this thing you're trying to sell now and people who have purchased IT, how can you get enough content out there that somebody who buys IT can go through IT all the very first night they have IT?

It's a problem of the video games too.

Sometimes yeah, but usually yeah, that's a problem like when a new game system comes out and you know there's like one or two games at launch, you that's that's a problem. But then like two weeks later, there is a bunch more um what what they need in the vision pro is like looked it's great that we keep getting more, more samples and trials and and previews and teasers. That's great.

But then what then we will back up. We need enough there that even if the whole rest of the industry and all your press people are all saying the things, I don't really I don't really have a use for this if you loan listener say I want to buy this, I think it's cool. No matter what anyone else says, you should be able to buy IT and take IT home and have more than like a few days of of stuff to you to do on IT of the content of apps you you should be able to have decent value.

Even if you buy IT, you should have decent value from IT more than just a few days worth. And some people do with you just like like know with the apps that already exist. But I think that that's a pretty small group. And so it's again, all of our content. Just get content on there whatever you have to do, apple, like, like there is probably going to be a decent amount of deal making happening to make that up of whatever you have to do, get content onto the vision pro.

Another little bit from the micro s article about the sales thing is that the at the end they talk about the a upcoming low, uh, not replacement, whatever the low cost has said that apple supposedly hasn't the works and supposedly apple has told suppliers to prepare to build four million of the low cost headsets of love is over the entire lifespan of the product.

So what's know if this thing is like half Price or fifteen hundred dollars or whatever? Ah that seems ambitious. But you know four million over a lifetime is that lifetime four years is that a million years at four million over one year either way? Uh, these rumors seem to indicate that apple thinks their next shot at this will do Better than their first.

Just as a final note on this, I I know we just talked about, but I would like to echo again what we've set over over, I think, on the show, if you have the ability, like if there's a nap store near you or if you have a friend that has a vision pro, it's worth trying IT really, really is go to the apple storm and do the thirty minute demo, whatever it's worth trying. And that costs you literally nothing. When I did IT admitted, I think they knew I was literally purchasing one of the time, so they weren't about to up sell me. But my understanding is they're not very agressive all about trying to you close the .

deal or anything didn't anything about you? I didn't tell me anything about that. They didn't tell me the Price, didn't tell me I could buy one. They were just completely unstable .

and selling me exactly so truly IT is worth thirty minutes or whatever of your if you live even remotely close to one apple store, if you have a friend or acquaintance that has one, you really should try IT, because I cannot stress enough. Anyway, another minute ago, when this thing is on like this, immerse the video and some of the upset on IT IT is just unlike anything of ever experience. It's so cool and .

you should really try IT. Oh, it's an amazing day. You, if you haven't even tried that before, you will walk away. And thing, oh my god, that's amazing. You just know that what you see in the demo is most of bit.

but that's the thing. You will probably go to the demo and say, why are why is marko especially but also the other two? Why are they so down in the vision pro? And it's because of what marco said, because the amazing bits, generally speaking, all of the content the amazing content you can blow through that like Michael said in a day at most, probably quite less than that. Um now the other good things like I keep talking about my virtual to display because if you're in the situation more that's useful for you, you traveling, you you're travelling or you have traveled, you're in a hotel or you're on a train or a plane IT is unreal. But that's not a problem that I personally find myself needing to fix on a regular basis.

And some people I just like to use A A single window APP sitting on a mountain and like or whatever like, there are people who who like IT and there are things that IT does besides just talk about IT, not a schools, the content in something different platform, but uh, very heavily as that because is one of the things that IT does Better than anything else. But that also runs the apps that available for IT.

And yeah, you can run apps elsewhere too, but you can't quite run them in the same way, surrounded by a pictures faster, whatever. And some people like that and find IT very uh A A very new and interesting and uh useful way to work. So there is that. But IT is, boy is a pretty expensive way to get one window floating in the air funny .

over like yes and another. I think this has been talking about and i'm great a lot. I know I keep try to move on, I keep myself, but this is apparently the case. He has no self control episode um but I think okay to talk about this a lot.

But um I have a standing every couple of weeks um face time with a handful of our mutual friends all of whom have vision, prose and being doing that specially where you mike for example, is to my left and Jason is to my right and maybe James thomson street you cross from me at the end of that half hour hour forty five minutes, whatever IT may be I feel much more like I was hanging out with people than I do. I was on a face time with people when in reality I was just on a face time with people. And I was looking out there.

What are they call the avar things? I'm drawn a blank now, the sona personas, the a of the personas. I'm looking at personas. And they've gotten good enough now that at the end of that, there's something about that experience that makes me feel like we were hanging out in person.

And I know that sounds bananas, and I would judge me if I, how are you? But IT really does feel different than just a face time. So again, they're very cool, incredibly uses for this thing.

If you happen to have a bunch of friends with too much money or not, no sense. So I don't mean to be down on the vision pro entirely, but I guess I can't eco what Michael said enough. More content, please and thank you. Um with regard to the member special, i'm going to try to a lick bring in some feedback from reply guy exec ell who wrote that for one of the storage media we spoke about, if we were using an apple branded device to to a right to that storage medium, those devices typically were very, very, very bad and there are Better ones that existed. So if perhaps, marco, you lived in all apple life in the know maybe midd nineties and probably had an apple device to write to this particular media, maybe your experience was so optimal.

Um maybe you don't .

say maybe I did not have an apple drive.

especially if you're using really crappy uh, products for this.

Like really I was not. Am I the type of person that sounds you like? I would uh buy the crappy st uh piece of technology I can fine with. No research behind IT, which made, by the way, also be the with the reason that I ended up with uh, the best review diversion of the storage media piece of hardware rather than just buying something random or getting apple anyway.

Fair enough are enough ir enough. But I did this seeing this year.

I did make me wondered, do I still have that in my headache that I could finally get rid of that? I have that for a real long time because I was so expensive, because I was like the fancy one, you know, like the, you know, the the best review know the especially the beginning of like this was before activity to export be no sorry, sorry, it's hard to do. Um I don't not even know if if I still have that, if I still had IT, it's probably because I was so expensive that I just wanted to keep IT. I am that but still I spent a lot of money on IT so I have sent a mental value so I .

bet it's still there somewhere. In any case, in the cola also wrote that well, in rights I am flash was a collector recordings of jam ban shows. And I am not here, marco, to litigate what a jam ban is clear.

But in an rights, I spent more time and money on the silly, obsessed te hobby than i'd like to concede. And one of these storage mediums you spoke about was all caps revolutionary to this particular hobby. But I am here to confirm for you, with over one thousand data points, what particular brand of media you buy makes all the difference in the world on the advice of dead heads.

But I think mark and I can both aggam is a jam ban um this particular used person, used code or and used code ac branded media code at golds baby and they there were two grades. There was silver and gold. And because collecting grateful dead shows is obviously this according e and still a very serious business, I only use the high grade slash gold ones.

I'd went over a thousands of these pieces of media. And looking at my trading logs, I had stopped collecting these shows in the winter of one hundred ninety nine. I recently went to divest myself of all my physical media.

And before I did, I rea extracted all of that to sis. Twenty five years later, after IT had been put on this media, how many of those particular pieces of media were unreliable? exactly. Won out of over a thousand. And even that one was mostly readable. There was just one song I couldn't pull off of IT and even within that song, IT was essentially one second ah so yeah i'd say this is I will concede it's antic data, but why was a significantly strong antic data, uh, that defendants market .

for every one of those are someone like paul tower who says, quote, I of nineties before I knew how prone to tell you they were as a result to have almost no pictures from college. You're replaceable pictures and he says, I can't remember the last time one of these pieces of media .

worked oh my god, you the two, you must have been buying the worst pieces of media in the type. Like, I really.

I could continue reading from other feed back at other other. But you know, like, look like I said, this is a situation where there are clearly a lot of variables, including, by the way, one of the variables that you might not think about, which is like, oh, so you you know you you want to read this later. You haven't been actively using IT.

Where have you started at? How is that has been started? What is the humidity light as as IT been in the sun? What is the temperature? Like so many variables. And my contention is that there are so many different combinations of variables that result in failure that is enough to keep this out of where you guys wanted to put IT.

I I would would chAllenge any storage medium, put IT in the same environment for the same at the time and try to read IT. And I bet you've a similar feature.

But I mean, that's part, that's part of these people giving their experiences and sort of feeling down. This is that, yes, all storage media has some failure rate. But like the combination of what these things were used for and and how prone they might be to failure resulted in people losing data and remembering IT and telling stories about that.

All IT isn't just an academic. Or something like stage media fails, but is not a big deal. Because by then I had moved on.

These people lost data to IT, and that's why they are. Can I like when we talked about a floppy discs in that on flap is right. People remember, IT is not like floyd for just incredible unreliable.

There were the main started meeting with beautiful ages. But when you lose something that sticks with you, and that happened with the storage media to enough people that they remember IT. And so yeah, it's the terrible grade, the terrible unfair grade that I got.

IT was there when IT wasn't there. Hey, let's talk about photo editing. What is exposing to the right exactly, mark, would you like to refine any statements or you .

want me to handle? yes. So IT turns out I use that term wrong.

You were close. You were close with just some of the particulars are slightly off as well. Put link in to show that the two things won the wikipedia ge on IT and two A D, P. Review video, if you want to see in detail .

what he was talking about yes, so basically what I was talking about when shooting photos in in a raw form of your camera sensor, you there's usually a whole bunch of shadow detail in the dark areas that if you shoot raw, later imposed, and you can usually bring up the exposure of the shadow areas to get a lot of that back.

And so but what you can do is if part of the sensor was blown out with a hundred percent White from, like a bright light or the sun, or like a reflection, like, know, being in the frame or near the frame, you can't recover any detail from A, A, A totally White, blonde area. That's just like the sensor having all the little buckets of photons were all just full in that area, like you can't recover in more detail because they were just full. And so my strategy has always been exposed the the picture during capture from shooting while exposed the picture to be able to capture the bright areas in the correct detail and exposure like the bright. So if there is like a you know a son or reflect to water whatever exposed that that's correctly exposed, even if you make the rest of the picture too dark, because that imposed procession, I can bring up the dark areas, but I can't recover that.

I think you did the exact same slightly wrong description as you .

did the you just well, that's what I do but I said I think photographs called this exposed to the right exposure. The right means almost the opposite of that .

not not quite but but yeah but I got what you yeah so we should read this feedback from there and I think sound great yes.

the term exposing to the right comes from moving the histogram to the right as an over, exposing an image.

And I was for a second and say what the history m is. Most fancy cameras have a thing where to show you hir grammar. S grammar. Just a graph that shows like how many values level one, how many values level two, how many values lever three and that makes like a little mom, a little graph that's your histogram right? And what they are showing in the histogram on cameras is, uh, different brightness levels with the left side of histogram being black and the right side being White and all the values that are in between.

In terms of brightness, if you're looking at a luminant sister gram, right? And what I say moving the histogram to the right is saying the shape of the little mountain range made by the histogram. You're trying to make the big peak, the big lumpy mountain be more to the right of the image.

The right is bright, the left is dark, right? So it's always going to be some kind of like a lumpy type of thing or whatever. There's one big lump or amount of where most of the uh the the luminance data is in the image IT exposed to the right is saying move that lump to the right.

Don't leave a bunch of space to the right on the histogram of like level ten, eleven, twelve romantic values. Thirteen, like all those, just have very low values on them. The hump is in the middle.

You don't want the pump in the area. You wanted shift the hump. Er the right because good to new .

cases when shooting raw, exposing one third or two thirds brightness, the best way to maximize the data captured by the sensor for later processing, you can recover quite a bit of seemingly lost highlight detail on a raw image. Only when shooting jay do you want to expose for the highlights, as marko described, to avoid completely losing data.

And sam had some more information on this. I wasn't able to pin down to the point where I can uh want to like put IT in the show word for word but like the idea is that uh when you when you're exposing to the right, the more brightness you can get, the more data that is available to you, like you don't want to waste part of the as the way I would describe IT as your camera, whatever your settings are, captures a certain range of luminance value, certain range of life, right? If you put the big lump in in the middle when you're shooting raw, you're kind of wasting the stuff to the right because you're not capturing any data there with raw. You can shop that lump over not off the edge because of the edge markers talking about all know you've loan n out your high light now things pear White, but shop the lump over to the right to allow you to use the rest of the range to get more uh, values in the darkness and that's that's the exposing to the right the right is that .

lump in the histogram do we want to discuss color spaces now? right? When shooting raw is the same continuing when shooting raw, the color space is determined when exporting from the raw processor. Adobe RGB is a good choice when expLoring edited raw images to other formats when while the in camera color space only matters for japan images, IT should be set to adobe RGB for when you do use j pex street from the camera as so much bigger color space.

the images look Better. As a result, I feel was asking marko last time about college spaces is using not realizing that IT doesn't matter when you talking about raw because college space only comes into the fact when you take that raw answer today and you say, okay, now i'm going to stick this into something like a jail paper, an image or whatever. We choose the color space because the the raw is really just the values from the sensor and more less its raw form after whatever it's called debating or whatever that thing is where they um process the sensors into a bunch of GPT.

Although I feel like and I I can't substances this right now, but I feel like a lot of people said that adobe RGB was not the right choice. And the next time, oh, there okay, maybe that's where gotten from leon atton rites with regards to camera color face setons color face election in cameras is applicable need for j pegs. So far, we agree raw files not contained any color space.

They're just twelve or fourteen or fourteen bit or more read out from the sensor. All processors take these bits and convert them to a color spaceman ce, even the JPEG never used IT to hope he RGB there. There we go.

As IT is a massive gaming, completely unsuitable for eight big j, eight bit j pegs. You will see a lot of color binding. In my icon D S R days, I got bit by adobe RGB, making a lot of shots unusable.

It's the most noticeable, because this is most noticeable on smooth gradients such as skies, but also architecture. Even p three hit the upper bounds of eight bits. With today's tack, there are really no point shooting in limited JPEG modern dern SONY can even shoot ten big, ten bit heck, but raw is always preferred for .

probability. So I I like a set about, my cameras are set to do RGB, and i'm shooting in j and raw to choose for your cards. But I mostly to stay with the jp s, the idea behind this. But what they are talking about is like, uh, number of bits per sample.

How many how many bits do you take per sample? This thing I see if you have eight, but you have value to four teen and bits you can get many more, right? So if you're taking a picture, something like a sky gradient, whatever, uh, within you know one in strip of the thing, whatever, within some strip of the sky you might have, uh, in the thing off the sense you might have five different colors, blue, so the darker blue slike darker blue like five different blues, right?

That's in a twelve bit space. You ve got a room. You ve got a room for however many value. Twelve bits is like, you know, thousands and thousands of different colors you can fit in there, right? But when you write IT to A J pig, they have to take all those thousands of different colors and compression down to fit in eight bits, not only two hundred and fifty six levels for the r the g in the right um and in an a bit thing, those five different blues might map down to a single blue.

So what was previously a strip that had five different colors, like a smooth gradient, that same strip net has one color, because if you compressed IT down a bit, and that is the the danger of possibly sing banding, where now, instead of a smooth gradient, where every single line is just a slide, different color blue than the previous one, now you see blue number one for happy, blue number two for happening. And that's that's banding where you can see these distinct bands of color. I have to say i've been shooting adobe RGB for years and years, and all my stony cameras, and I have never, ever, ever seen this, right? But IT is technically a danger for the reason that I just described.

Maybe i'm not showing of big gradient skies. Uh, maybe I don't know, like maybe they aren't A B, J. Pegs in all these cameras will put a link in the show us to arca le by Daniel alan about S R G B versus dob RGB versus photo RGB that says here all the different situations where you might want to use S R G B here where you might want to use dobe RGB here's where you might want to use pro photo R G B, right?

So I think that provides a reasonably baLanced view of, like the different scenario where you want each one. The reason I am personally using a dob R G B S was when I was first playing with this setting. I took the same exact picture in A D B R G B and S R G B, which is the picture of like something in my house that was red.

And I brought the pictures back to my computer, and I blind A B test to them to see if I could tell which one of these is a dob RGB, and which one of the S R G B, holy cow, you could tell, taking picture of a red thing in the house. Maybe that's not representative, but the adobe RGB one was much more read and closer to what I saw with my own eyes when looking at. So like, well, that's IT.

I'm done with a dob RGB, and I make sense. Do b RGB covers more of the color space then? S R G B. Does I wondered, like, is that something you can even see? And my answer was yes.

I could tell that everyone in a blind test of which was which, and I liked the adobe RGB, warn Better. So be aware that when saving adobe RGB to j pig and you have smooth gradients, maybe bending is an issue. But I personally haven't. En, i'm stick with the dob RGB.

all right. And then leo continues HDR always shoot. Raw lighting takes all the bits of information when you enable the H D R.

Toga, applies an appropriate tone curve automatically. Ally, suddenly, everything that seemed over exposed shows details for exporting. Always use sixteen bit JPEG excel or ten bit A V I F.

then. Josh herr's, right. Thanks for the great discussion. Editing photos, what should I do with display settings like to toa u night shift and brightness while editing always tried to turn color shifting off and increased brightness, but i'm not sure what the best setting is for the most true to life result or whether the system is just adjust for this already. And I just turn all off, if can, but what a pain. wow.

So here's the thing, what these features do. So first, all night shift is the thing that makes look, look like someone peed on your screen at night. I was just, just turning that off. IT makes everything warmer on your screen at nighttime to try to like reduce the amount blue light you're being faced with and make you feel nice and cozy, right? Lots of people like that feature.

But if you're editing photos, I would stronger suggest to disabled nightshift because that is intentionally changing the color bounced of your screen in a way that you will notice, like that's the whole point supposed to look warmer to you. So don't do that. If you want to get an idea of what you color is, look like true tone is apple feature where the hardware has a sensor on IT that senses the ambient light in the room and how warm that is.

And then based on what that sensor sees, IT adjust the image to try to essentially match the White baLance of the room. So if you're in a room with a very warm lighting, it's not going to leave them under the same because the monitor will look really the the Whites will look very blue compared to the ambient light that is much warmer in the room. Instead, they will warm the moor up to match the color temperature of the ambient light.

I personally leave true tone on, which is not the cording process to do. Pros should be working in a completely dark room with their munder are perfectly calibrated by hardware to be exactly at sixty five White point. Like i'm not doing that.

I leave true tone on and the reason I leave true tone on is because I know i'm in a room with the the bunch of lights that do not have the coin quote, the right color temperature, and I want my display to adjust itself so that IT matches the color temperature in the room. So the adjustments I make look right to me in this room, in this lighting so well, then I see them in a different room, in different lighting. They'll still look right.

Uh, I don't know that foolish, but I don't really care because they just want to do with my pictures and they look to me and I prints them in books and look at on the books. And when I see them in the books, I don't think that myself, well, that looks way different than I did in my lander. Instead, I think why that looks exactly like that. Mr, so I say night shift off true .

turn on yeah I I would say the same thing. Um the reality is that when when you are editing um you know what you want is a neutral view. However, your eyes and your brain perform some degree of auto White baLance all the time in the world. So what you want is something that that appears to be very neutral to you at the time. Night shift the monitor ping moon um that's that's the more severe, in fact, and IT is customizable, but you know that people typically use IT if they want know a stronger effect.

Night shift is too much of of an an adjustment and IT makes IT difficult for you to to know what you're missing by by not seeing IT because it's removing it's filtering out too much of the blue and its spectrum so your eyes can auto White baLance to IT nearly as well. So you will make mistakes like you will do things in that mode that when you later see them like you know, the next day and regular lighting you might think of that's not what I meant do, but that isn't how I meant that to work. True tone, which is the the much more subtle White bounds shifting thing of the monitor, is, is, is a much weaker effect and a smaller effect. And therefore, IT IT tends to keep IT within the range of what your eye automatically does without the day and in different conditions.

And i'm not sure with the weaker because if you put if you bail IT in super dubar warm light, I think I would adjust IT. What is trying to do is make IT look White to you in this ah this sheet of paper is actually very yellow because light is yellow and if you have very, very yellow light that sheet paper is objectively yellow but to your eyes that shed paper still looks White because you know it's White and you're brain is just for to whatever and what true tone is trying to do is say, hey, when you hold that piece of paper in the ambient light of the room up to your monitor, I want the White of that paper to match the White on the screen and to do that and makes you screen yellow wish to match the yellowish paper, the paper is yellow wish, because the you're yellowish light in the room is bouncing off of the paper and going to your eyes.

Your mother is yellow ish because the OS is making IT produce yellow by mixing the red and the Green some pixel, right? And so that's the goal of true time. And it's subtlely you're lighting is suddenly warm or subtle.

cool. I bet it's not subtlely you're lighting. He is not suddenly warmer.

Cool indeed, john, I wants to talk about cropping, please.

Yeah this is something they came up and we've talked about past episode is a photo editing um but we didn't mention the last time because in the atp question was very much all very much focused like what do you do IT when you're editing photos in terms of like exposure and all the fancy controls and light room and photos or whatever?

Uh but it's worth three, eight or any because a lot of people brought IT up and we talked about in the past cropping is the very first thing I do with every single photo that I added. It's not an exciting form of IT because you I go, i'm just changing the rectangle that defines the edges of the picture. Who cares? And maybe get a little more exciting with the advent of A I background extensions and stuff.

But either way, cropping is the first thing that I do. And every photo that I added eye rop, like, I can't remember the last time I added a photo and said, you know what, I don't need to change at all. A part of taking pictures and learning from the editing experiences is knowing, uh, if I had left, if I had, you know, left a little bit more margin around the edges, I could frame this the way I wanted.

It's Better to like have a little bit of extra a background as long as you've got enough pixel of resolution. So to have a little more extra background, that is to be missing that background because A I background extensions aside and still is kind of difficult to expand the image where you want IT, but you can not always crop in a little bit. And what are you doing when you're cropping? You're trying pose the picture, you trying to impose them when you take IT too, but is often more important to get the shot, get the moment when the person is smiling, get the bird flapping it's or whatever and then worry about the cropping later versus i'm not going to take the picture until it's perfectly composed in my view finder because then you've missed the shot a lot of time.

So I was trying to leave a little Better cure. And the very worst thing I do is crop, and i'm cropping to try to make a nice composition or try to make the composition I was trying to get in the camera but the camera was tilted or you know and this degree is is all the cropped to extradite in the rise line and stuff if you want to um or I didn't quite get a frame the way I wanted, but I have enough of the background that I can crop IT. So that is if if you do no editing except for cropping, you will get Better at taking pictures.

Your pictures will look and look Better. You like I am doing, think that what all I do is change the edge. They will look Better.

You don't realize how much of a good picture is choosing the crop, choosing the composition until you've done that to a few year pictures and suddenly the exact same picture you have, that anything to IT all you've done is define the crop looks a lot Better. Uh, once you sort of get on that train, uh, it's hard not to notice IT. So yeah, cropping, it's an important part of anything and you should definitely do IT. And I was just making IT one of the first things .

that you do uh with regard to parallel zing for file compression and decompression me hi pop reno rights the compression speed and penalising discussion. The most recent ATP reminded me of cigar jazz n xi p on lipp utility that only focuses on decompression onate shows how much faster than archive you told you can be. This is relevant because xcode is zipped using this, I guess, like secure X I P zipped thing.

And IT takes four freaking ever unzipped by default. And so this is a open source and third party utility to make that faster. We've talked about .

this executives on the show in the past. IT should be noted. The one of the things that does to speed itself up is not do the verification of everything.

That's not the only thing that does this speed itself up. So it's worth looking. You can look at the source code and see just uses, you know, so with concurrency to treat, do IT in more parallel chunks. And you can totally pig all your C B guard if you want to do this, but if you care about the check something, uh, either don't use this tool or do a full checks on on the finished binary somehow and make sure is what you expect indeed.

And then search a wrote in a well, wrote on a thread that we were a part of that and said, if you you just use finder to make z IP IT uses some single threats code by default I don't actually remember if you if you can make zip in parallel, but i'm pretty sure even if you can lib archive whatever find their uses doesn't do that.

However, apple is a proprietory form that essentially makes a big tar of your files and then split IT into chunks to compress those in parallel. If you're use cases, I have a chunkier file, please make IT small and you're okay with using a special apple format and also probably giving up a few percent in size. You should give you a try.

There's developer. If you're developer, there's API, which is the apple archive. A P. I. There's also an A, A tool bundled with Michael S, I can create and manipulate apple archive files.

Ah, I didn't even even try this, but H, I wonder what kind of file expansions is I just thought a but anyway, yeah, if you're on if you're just staying with an apple platform and you want to you know really to express something quickly, you want to try to doing perl.

try the a dm. P, S. Rode in with regard to the phones and schools over time. Discussion from episode six or seven then write, my school had two main rules. This photo was in my year book. And you see, I guess, the staff of this high school, uh, and this looks like in the geneva, they are on bleachers and in the back in huge letters IT reads as follows no hats, no walkmen. That's k in the overtime .

we're saying how like you know, trying to get kids to pay attention in classes is always been a chAllenging I I mention the walk man is a technology around when I was a kid and how kids had them. And if you put the money in class, you would surely be stern lecture that you shouldn't be. Listen to walk on all you in class.

I didn't think about hats, but when I was a kid, that was also a thing that I think, I guess I mostly blocked out hats and gum chewing for things that that the adults really obsess with, not happening in schools. But yeah, this is, this is the bleach IT. Looks like the bleachers in a gennadius.

The backward, uh, behind the bleachers is, you know, that center. But the painted center block wall at all high schools had, and literally painted, hand painted, like extensive letters on the wall. They are like two feet high, all caps, no heads, no walking, because the scourge of hats will destroy our children. If we let IT .

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okay. So there's been a lot of rumors recently about the iphone S E. Four, and we wanted to talk about a few of them, but we also wanted to mention or john wanted to mention something with regard to our iphone product mix that we discuss in the overtime for p so six o nine so john n what's yeah just .

talking about that over time was like, what should be the iphone that apple cells like? What variety should there be? Ah is the lineup as IT is now correct? Should they make a small phone? Should they make, you know, other kinds of weird phones? And we had this whole discussion, and I thought was interesting, as an aside to the iphone S C rumors they were about to get to that.

None of us even mentioned I S C. In that whole discussion because you were like the iphone mine up, you know the iphone, iphone sixteen, iphone 7 pro， iphone 5 pro max， maybe we'll be a slim ultra. But not once mention the iphone I see.

So neglected is this previous ears model with a new name or whatever. But the iphone I C exists um and somewhat relate to this. Uh the iphone mini a seventeen princess, a seventeen pro which is what apple is. The new iphone mini um is connected to the iphone on seventeen.

Uh rumors uh these are actual rumors are supposed like just wish casting about that we talked about and the overtime where max tag was talking about iphone air, iphone alter, whatever just like this would make a nice set of names. These, I think, are actual rumors. And the rumor being that the iphone seventeen lineup will drop the numbers and instead be iphone privacy.

A nineteen iphone propac's y is a nineteen pro. And so the names would be iphone, iphone pro, iphone max, iphone, whatever they are, iphone. So fix right without the number, like the number wouldn't go up and the way we would distinguish them as the same way we distinct example ipad.

This happened a ago. I think we even talk the new ipad came out where we running atp. When that happened, I don't even know.

They drop the numbers. That said, ipad, they aren't to have numbers. This is just the new ipad. And like, how are you going to tell you had an ipad? And now this year there's another thing called ipad, but is a different product.

How are we going to distinguish them? And the answer was, prentice is, you know, second generation, third generation of the same thing with max. All these mac mini, you told me they're called mac mini.

How do I tell which mac mini have? Do they have years in them forever? And the answers is that some praise and faces after IT that tells you what is sometimes it's a year, sometimes it's in the best man.

Like, you know, do you know, macbook pro proxy do USB like all sorts of stuff, but the room, remember, is that this would be kind of like the iphone S C, right? The iphone S C four are versus iphone sc print sees a sixteen or something like that. I'm not entirely sure that the parenthesis stuff version of apple naming is any Better than just calling a iphone seventeen.

In many ways it's worse. But IT is interesting that the iphone has stubbly stuck with these numbers. I remember years ago, people like, well, surely we can they get to ten or eleven or twelve are going to stop because I phone seventeen sound so dum, or I phone sixteen.

But remember everyone saying, sone, we've ready, been there and done and that survived, right? But the fact is the max, the ipad and lots of other apple products don't have numbers in the official progne for the iphone still does. So are we all looking at a future where every product, including the iphone S E. And all the ipad and all the iphone, has some word thing in prances after IT, we just going to keep making that number go up until an iphone one hundred hundred and thirty seven.

Well, I mean, so certainly the the sequential numbering model name system has a diminishing value over time. The numbers started to get weird like the hired anybody want with .

the iphone thirty seven, the discussion iphone fifteen.

And I do think that we are in that in that range like it's starting it's gonna start to get weird if IT hasn't already like we're certainly in that range. And so I think you know you look at apple's other product lines and IT makes sense. Everyone's fine.

Which macbook pro do I have? I don't know what year came out. I know that has the m three, whatever in the m three older like? So like I did IT come out .

last year and the year before. Get the special of me what are actually special? Me think .

it's just map up pro like late twenty twenty.

And I think .

I mean, i'm sure those exceptions here and there like for some dynasties, but like in the other product lines, no one like what is the current ipad pro? What is a called, who knows, I know, came out this year is IT called the ipad pro twenty twenty four is IT called the ipad pro with m four chip? Who knows? IT doesn't really matter that much.

And I think with the iphones IT, I think that mattered a lot more back when the iphone were, first of all, being upgrade a lot more often than people tend to do now. And when they were changing more frequently than they, they tend to be changed. Now you look at the current iphone industrial design and IT looks very similar further last what five years.

It's it's been a while now. Um so you know any you know the iphone is in a matching stage of its life. The the iteration is slowing down in terms of like the physical design changes, like it's it's kind of stabilizing.

And so I think that makes sense to start treating IT more like other products that have reached similar levels of majority, like my book, prose and ipad. And you look around, there is a reason why most of these devices don't just get equal numbers IT. IT is kind of confusing.

The numbers do get a little big and weird after a while and IT stops mattar ing. So much like IT is a some degree. I wonder if apple, I I don't know what degree that we want to do this, but I wonder if also the like, if you have say very now, if you have like the iphone twelve, do you know how all that is?

If if IT was just like of the iphone prethee twenty nineteen, like maybe that would feel older to or maybe I would feel, you know, maybe you don't want the iphone twelve to feel as older as he does when you know the iphone sixteen. Is that who knows? But anyway, I think there are multiple reasons to to look at getting rid of these numbers or and referring to IT other ways and IT .

mostly because of these numbers, but they replicate them with another, the a serious processors and the m serious processors.

Guess what have numbers on them? And the A S are already up to seventy and eighteen, right? So iphone, iphone pro previs a eighteen pro, it's just move the eighteen out of the it's like and it's been you know a frustration of developers and the people to deal these things that the numbers are not sink up between the O S version, the processor version and the phone version, right? Would be nice if they get.

But i'm i'm looking at the apples compare page for the macbook pros and IT says macbook pro 40 practices and three， they seem to be lighting the processors in the principle, which just fine like sometimes there years these arent. I don't know these the official like, uh, actual apple proc names of the text backs about undergoing what's in the compare page. But the thing they're putting importances es of the processor and all the processors have numbers of them.

I mean, IT is an improvement in track ability and that like if you don't care about that part, you just like I got an ipad pro, I got a macbook pro or maybe I got a fourteen or fifteen h macbook pro like but you don't care what the processor is and some might ask you in the same way you're like I got I got a new iphone or I got a new ipad. Which one did you get? Do you care about the process is the university, but if you don't, you're not distracted by IT.

Um I I mean, I I do see I see a trend towards unifying under the scheme. Is the scheme Better than the existing scheme? Well, there is something to be said for consistency across apple's product lines.

If they can ever even ever so brief attained that before they go often another direction that would be cool um but it's just think to think about in the context of the uh the the iphone suffer s right because the iphone will be left with no suffix just like the ipad is. But all the iphone have something s pro pro max which has two of excess and great. Maybe there's an ultra, maybe there's a slim or an air or whatever um that something look forward to our next year.

And the seventeen in the iphone seventeen, which I guess we can call the iphone 7 and figure with the name game supposedly is actually going to change the form factor。 And you know just like I phone ten flash x did changes form factor and briefly go into a letter based naming system for the top and phone before we return to. So as always, a with all things naming IT is not entirely cast in the apple world, but there is a little bit of spice there.

right? So what are the rumors with the iphone S C for? Uh, first of all, and this is from one to five mac, the s four is expected to be based on the iphone fourteen design, but with a single rear camera for gipsies same sensors, the f one fifteen, a six point one inch oh display with an iphone fourteen sized noch in USB c IT is not expected to have a camera control, IT is not expected or IT is unlikely to have an action button.

And people are saying IT might even have that long rumored apple five g modem. You never know IT could happen. This would mean no millimeter wave, which would make me very sad and would not that i'm about going to see.

But that's me there. You know, there you would have five g wifi and blue tooth on the single chip. And IT is expected to launch in the spring.

Maybe possibly and we talked about this five million for ages, this kind of interesting. You're really only no, they probably don't want to look out the very first mom on a really important. So yeah, put IT on the S E.

So if you really must stop damage as the minimal and IT also looks like, uh, the modem I have millimeter waves was not even suitable for the pro phones of mining. Apple wants to continue having millimeter wave. And by the way, that I fix IT teredo wes of the.

Like the current sixteen proven stuff, so that apple went to some length to find a new place on the phone to put the millimeter wave stuff because the camera control is kind of wear the looming ter wave intend to used to be. And now it's like thread through to the top of the phone, everything. So that seems like apple still on board with no other way, at least in the us.

Uh but yeah apple first five g mode not supported in order. interesting. I don't actually know if in our current phones, obvious, so they have call com.

So modems, I don't know if they have separate like a separate broadcom ship or something for wifi and blue tooth. And if so, apple combining five g wifi and blue tooth into a single chip would be an upgrade. But if not, it's just know i'm trying to get away from qualcomm to stop paying the money because they don't like them.

And every a bit of profit the calm gets is a bit of profit that what doesn't get. So they want to want to control the core technologies, blab blaw argo by until some modern business and get yourself your own five g modem. It's just taking me a long time and fingers crossed that they don't screw up.

The new s looks good though. Like so this is everything like finally the I will be modernized like it's not doesn't have the dynamic island, but it's it's all screen like it's all it's the current modern design is easier to repair. A single camera on the back is actually kind of fun, like one good camera for the cheap phone instead of how multiple bonds that saves space personally makes more room for, uh, a bigger battery as long as says a good care make IT makes the phone look interesting and cute.

Just having one little camera on IT kind of like a throwback. Well, obviously the camera is way bigger than they used to be. I think the iphone s four, which will probably be the iphone S E practices a sixteen, I don't know.

They said the S S was to be on us, but IT looks like a good year for the S C. Unless the thing you liked about the S C, was that being smaller? Because guess what is going to be the same size renting?

indeed. And speaking of things that are forthcoming, do we want to briefly talk about the theoretical apple october event and maybe some new max coming?

Will there be an event?

Well, yeah, I think the alleged october or all in november release of apple products, who knows what form that release will take or even if IT will happen, although it's sure does seem like it's probably about to happen. But yeah, in in some form of pressure reduces or some kind of announcements, who knows? But there are a lot of very, very loud and persistent rumors that we are about to see most likely a new mac mini, new macbook prose and possibly and I like and possibly U S B C preferable like keyboard and amount updates.

Ah we'll see about that that the imac rumor uh yeah IT is in the crop of max that due to be updated with them for chips uh and there are this kind of a separate rumor of like there is a version two of apple's current crop of magic preferable the keyboards, the mouse uh and the rumor is that enough to say, okay, well, a new version of the keyboard and mouse that just like take the existing keyboard and mouse and get rid of lighting up a USB c because that would be welcome.

Everyone wants IT right? Or is IT like have they actually revise these products for the keyboard and the mass are different? I find that hard to believe, but you know, the rumbles are so vague and so new that, who knows? But the the file rumor is new IMAX m for they still with lighting period.

Rs, but there will also be A, U, S, B, C, various, the most kebir. They just come with the M X, which the most awful thing ever, unless maybe if they're new or somebody I don't know. But anyway, yeah, I need I IT would be nice if the updated this profile not to to be U.

S. B, C. But I don't think anyone with the IMAX dying to do that. Because like onesta, look if the if you plug in your I guess you people don't log bu I think like IT becomes the lighting already that you can just harper in your little turnout with the lighting actor that comes with you. I am back and you're all set.

But I guess most people probably use the keyboards s and blue to the so I don't anyway, they should definite upgrade to U. S, B, C, and would be nice if they did that in this event. But it's interesting that here we are, by the time you listening to this, this could have already been announced.

And we still don't know if they're going to a get rid of lightning on the purpose or if they're just going to keep them the same and swap out the C. P. U.

I am so very ready to exercise what small amount of lightning exists in my life, out of my life. And so even though IT honestly, IT is not at all burdens, m to have a keyboard and mouse that charged me enlightening. Well, I should say track pad IT is burdensome to harpo in the turtle, as you said, but for the track pad in the keyboard, IT is not burdensome to have lightning.

I just have a lightning cable dropped off the back of my beloved caltis four, and occasionally I plugged them in when they need to be charged. But that said, it's one of those things is just like a gross know, I just gives me the IT now, you know, I just want to be done with IT. And so I would very, very much like if IT would be possible to get these preferable even if they're not really refresh.

Ed, like you were saying, just these exact preferable. But with you, B, C, please. And thank you.

And the other things, the remote obviously talked about the smaller mac, many best episodes as the remote or yeah I don't I .

don't need a new mac mini my life. I have one I am am one mac mini that i've gotten refurbished. I remember correctly and that's what runs um plexus and channels and and not too much else to be completely honest with you. I have zero need to replace a mac mini but if there's like a little pocket on thing, oh man, that's gonna tempting.

It's a really .

going to be tempting a of part. I actually do have a an intended uh mac mini in mind.

I'm trying so OK.

Basically my my last experience with with a modern psychology was not good. It's basically that already like I only bought IT, I think two years ago and IT is not going well.

So you should have kept ted inside.

Well, IT was in utility closet that that is but I was in a conditioned utility area so IT wasn't like fully inside but it's basically inside but uh anyway I want something for archival storage that came back up to book blaze straight forwardly IT with the regular backbones not like the paper gig one. Um and so and I have external S S D. That are huge and great. I have all these giant hardest that are ready to go sit in newly c so I think what I what I want to do really is just get them back many and like, well, grow. The one is little samsung is to IT may be done the road have a hard driving closure that IT connects to but for the most part, I just want to make money to be my archive survey in my house and get rid this broken snooty.

Hopefully the Prices will be uh, too ridiculous. Yeah think A A lot of people be tempted by the the shrink on these because they're going to be good machines. And I think the rumors and for and possible and for pro, that's the thing about this announcement. We know the end for is bunch and for a prom for max of haven't really been super solid rumors about what exactly they contain. We think we know like all the pro will be Better than the m for the maxo.

We Better still like there been lots of provant maxes on all the previous am serious, but and the m three is apple changed up a little bit and the pro is different than IT was the m one pro and the m2 pro， right? And so we really don't know what they gonna do with the m four pro m for max at this point, uh, except to say that, uh, yeah, the acbar prose IT presently theyll be m4， M4 pro m for max base microprobe s as well。 And we'll find out how much G P U, how many cars, what are the clock speeds like? What is the cooling like? Uh, you know, these are all in three e processors, presents ly, uh, and so this should be exciting.

We've wait a while. Like the m ford debuted in the ipad of all things, then came to a bunch of the max. Now he is going to be coming to more max.

We're friendly getting to like say the good chips is the m poor is a good chip, but like the more powerful chips, the the B F chips, nothing big and fancy like anything ultra zed, their mac pro, all those rumors is a sway. And next year, the maximum rumors next studio, which might have been scheduled for spring next year now looking more like IT might be pushed more toward june. And at that point, that I is what to say for dc and the mac pro.

Same thing, if you're lucky, gets announced. W we see and ships in much later in the year. So h no, don't have any expectations that you're going to see anything beyond an m for max shop.

But you know because these things tend not to leak for all we know, they're decided to stop naming them prom max, maybe the only one of them that as a different subjects, who knows? But our money is on m for m four pro and for max. Uh, and those and the rumors are that these machines will be the same.

The I macro look the same, the macropore will look the same. The mac me is the only one is going to look different. Uh, so yeah, just bunch of laptops with the same ports in the same design and the same everything, more or less, except swap out the m three for a Better and four and certain suffet here.

That all sounds great. And that's another reason why a press release may be reasonable. Uh, have they ever done a press release for a new form factor for mac? I don't know.

IT seems like something that would have to be potentially rare, but not inconceivable. So honest, I don't know if there is going to be an event. The rumors are as we record this, that next week, whatever gonna happen will happen. So tuning next week.

I mean, if they were going to do a precise for entirely new industry design product, IT would be the mac many because it's such a half as product for the most partly they really don't or the phone see or yeah, do I want to see exactly like I think both of those would be very likely to be press release only you i'm sure they would have breaths for people for you know a handful of press people.

But like you, that's not going to justify and and that's why I kind of think there is no event here. I think this is all press release products because none of these are like the big kind of splashed the apple likes to make with events like they tend not to have events these days that don't have some kind of like really exciting novel thing. And I don't think a new mac money doesn't, no matter how good IT, because it's just a mac.

I don't the phone I see does again, it's just the iphone S C. These are not high profile, high excitement level products. These are specialized things for certain markets doing certain things that, that apple does not really draw of attention to.

So I I knew any a new chip in the imac that otherwise probably looks the same. I can see that changing. Uh, you know that's gonna be also yeah nice update.

But who cares? Uh, you care of here in the market to buy max, but no one else will care. And then finally, for the potential upgrade to U S B C H keyboards and mice.

Ai, I hope this is wrong. I really do. I cannot see them changing anything else about them. I bet the dumb magic mouths that I love so much, but the dumb magic mouse, I bet it's still charges in the bottom. You still flipped over like a turtle. I bet the everything else about the keyboards and the track pad, I bet they're all exactly the same IT just twisted USB c and makes no other changes. I hope i'm wrong, but I bet that's what IT is.

Yeah, that's the smart because that's just just make sense. I me, they did not do an entire forget about like this. They did the air plants, max, right? The whole product with the only thing that I got.

And they they ve done that. They did that with the airpower ds cases. First we had the case that was lightning. Now it's the same case, but it's got a USB c on IT.

Uh, apple is not super into revising its monitors or its skee board and mouse for on any kind of reasonable schedule. Watch that. And I I would have to think again, this is type of these rumors with obscure products, not as much stuff leaks as people just aren't as interested in leaking IT.

So if apple did have all no profile, is conceivable that we would know nothing about IT a week out. But it's, you know I would expect to hear something about, uh, revise proxy. Yeah I if they like, this is the best case scenario, just revise.

And I have U, S, B, C. And they come with the IMAX. Okay, that's what we wanted. Uh, if you are waiting around for apple to make like a new organic ic keyboard that makes marco happy, or a new mouse that much higher that makes me happy, like to hold your breath, not a chance. Their their design philosophers profile has been the same for a really long time.

And similarly for the macropore, again, the rumors about cases and changes, whatever there is, there are rumors about the next to essentially the next generation of apple a of the macbook pro bpt PS potentially getting slimmer, which which kind of just went through this whole big thing of like the jAnnie pho sophy of everything uniform, not of ports auth in babbo to the much more sort of like real blocky utilitarian sd uh card lot sporting HDMI port sporting a macbook rose. They were like, how do you like the magic is back? They finally made more good laptops.

We were all how many years as we've just been riding this high. But eventually they will have to redesign them. And the rumor is they going to redesign them to be thinner, which is fine. But now comes the real test of like, hey, that correction they made on a macro proline where they give us the ports back and put them more battery life and did a little bit of a, you know function over form by saying, let's make a right handler as that leaves more room for battery. The test comes when it's time, like the new revision.

Do they go back to their old ways? Do they say, and we can make a really skinning if we ve got rid of the HDMI I partner, we ve got rid of the sd card or whatever, right? I keep thinking back to like the macbook air, like the twenty eleven generation of macbook that are we the macbook air used to have an S D card spot, right? Macbook air wasn't like a pro only feature.

Somehow on the thinnest latest laptop, they made the found room for S D cards library. Now it's like, I don't know macworld pro, not sure we can find cards slot in there. So doesn't again, that's not this year.

That's rumors or maybe next year or the year after. So watch for that. That will be a good uh, test. Uh but yeah and the meantime, like I I agree that this could be a press release uh thing despite the mac many of being a big deal you know you know would make for a uh a mac events that they would once actually have have a versant event would be if they announced perhaps the world's fastest personal computer or something impressive like that. But alas, that is not about there.

John, let me tell you right now, if for some reason we got an invite to go and because you refused to leave your house for any reason whatsoever, you didn't go. And then they released the macpro. You are fired from the show.

So I would go, I think there would be A W C announcement. I'm, i'm A W C. If I get.

if what they do IT in week.

you never know. Think again. The rumors are they both the max city on the on the mac pro are potentially nounce able around june of next year.

I mean, the the mac pro probably won't be ready, but that doesn't stop them. The announced after three months later. Who cares, right? Uh, but yeah, no, i'm there. I'm A W, we see that my event.

Don't forget about me. Yeah, well, don't forget about any of us, but still. I don't know. I am just really amused at the thought of putting breathing life into the mac mini.

I just think that would be really fun and everything else like I don't feel like i'm in the market for a new map of pro. I don't want a max studio that's not feeling need. I have, however, I will say just, I think was earlier today, he was yesterday.

Somehow I got thinking about yells, monitors and how the X D R is. Like, is ten? It's not ten years old. Like five years .

old isn't IT. How old is that?

I mean, to put things in perspective, mccalla is in in first grade right now, and SHE is six and half years old. Like that thing came out when he was one, and now she's the first great. Like that the x dr. Is old in the street.

much Better Prices and change, but you know with inflation and actually is cheaper.

Well, that is true, but it's still a very, very old monitor. And I don't know. I would like to see I would like to see the monitor or refreshing.

I think Mickey mentioned a promotion on an extra monitor I think that we really need. Is that a need? I have know. But what I love to hecker would I mean.

honestly, I kind of i'll be a little hesitant about them up updating IT because the manor they made in the meantime, the student display has a lot of we are little problems with the software and it's fine.

It's fine. Had a little bit of a rough entry.

but it's fine. And I feel like that is that is the test. That's whatever he's afraid I was like. They going to like a nineteen in the monitor and can be fat like the studio until I get all the form of up.

It's like should a little miniver's of IOS be running on a iphonec inside your monitor? Or should I be more like the X, D, R, which was in the the days when apple is willing to use whatever weird chips they have inside this thing to do, like to the the image processing and run the USB hub whatever it's like, uh, apple just decided like why are we paying for these chips from all these different manufacturers to do this stuff and dealing with this weird firm, where why don't we just put a series chip in there, put our own O S. On that and the answer was because you're not very good in that.

And yeah, the next studio was a little with flying, but my wife got next studio was right behind me. And whatever flaking is the words in the beginning. SHE has had no complaints on IT and has never done anything weird. I still that said, I still fear the possible, uh, flag ss of an a series powered X D R replacement because this X D R has just worked like a dumb power for which is exactly what you wanted to do.

Like I don't even wanted know there's anything computer inside IT especially interesting does not have a power button which apple still obsessed with right after there was something wrong with power ycl will be a pain but thank pretty had to do that. Um so I think my you know i'm happy with max. There are the way IT is talk about if you're wearing for a mouse keyboard like I said, our monitor or to be revised.

Don't hold your breath. The there has been rumors of new monitoring for for max for years and years. But IT seems like maybe those projects are started internally and then scraped and started to get and then scraped and started again and then scraped and they just go around and around to one of them actually escapes the company and to buy IT, that hasn't happened for a while.

Yeah for the record, I did have power cycle, my studio display not irregularly when I first got IT. And I think it's spent at least a year since i've had to do that, possibly more. I cannot remember the last time i've needed to do IT.

And you know, I have this array of the studio displaying the center in the bequest hlg five k from marco on one side, and one that I had bought second hand on the other. And I maintain that while the LG ultrafine is fine, these two years play is noticeable Better. And IT does have weird, and the camera is just a trash.

IT is straight trash. The cameras real bad. But other than that, it's actually a pretty dark screen, and I would love to get no studio display two to put in the center and downgrade the current studio of despite that, I I left the right side and you know, just move everything down a noch, which actually brings me to a mostly unrelated point.

So I have the the most recent apple TV in the living room. I have the one generation back in the bedroom and then I use the two generation back once. This is no several years old now um as the like tailgate apple TV if if for traveling somewhere for a long time will bring that apple TV um I feel like the eldest apple TV is getting real long in the truth at this point. And I would love to have another instance where I filter everything down to much. So I would also love to and I don't think there's any rumors about this, but i'd love to seen your apple TV as well.

There are rumors about IT, but like the apple T V is kind of reaching the point, uh kind reaching a fork in the road, uh, because I as far as i'm aware, there aren't really many television viewing base standards and technology. The apple TV does not yet support that IT would be useful for to support people might say eight k and you know the the P S five pro supposedly supports that.

But so is the P S five technically anyway, if if this a use case rate k, potentially next generation consoles might be the use case. But they've said that before. But after that is like there's that quick thing about a media switching without a long a black out， things up like that.

There's not a lot of stuff that you say I would. I need some more hardware on, example, T, V, to do video watching. Then there's gaming, which of course, you need unlimited power forever and ever.

Does apple want to turn apple T, V into more gaming thing? Or they make their own controller, are they going to ship that they can upgrade? Like that's the kind of the decision point because their apple is kind of close to saying for the purposes of watching video content, there is no reason for the apple T, V to get any more powerful for the purposes of playing games, there is infinity reason for the people get more powerful.

Which way do we go with this product? I'm casey. Whenever I new apple is out, I buy IT just blindly for the same, because I just rotate them through my thing. And historically, there has been a benefit, especially when they went four k and the guy a little bit faster.

What I would I do occasion to play games, unable to be evoked me just taken aside to complain, uh, my son was on from school for break and wanted to play journey. And like, great. That's out for apple T. V.

Guess what? That out for apple T. V anymore? IT was briefly out for abt.

V I think um maybe I have false memory over the whatever, but IT definitely is not out for apple T. V. You can play IT on the ipad.

You can play IT on IOS. Uh, you can play a lots of different platforms that you cannot play out an apple T, V. I think IT used to be an apple arcade and maybe was like a time limited thing, but it's super that happens. So anyway, they'll be interesting to see if the next ability comes out.

Like there's no point if you just watch streaming T, V to say, like we need an even faster S O, C here so you can play and pause television, like I would love them to make them more reliable and Better because it's still flaker than I like T O, from two thousand and two, whatever year I was using IT, which is sad considering has like brazilian times the power that evil right are you say is looking for king S. D, but still even accounting for that like. So i'm not saying the apple TV is as good as you can get.

IT should get much Better, but i'm not sure of hardware increase in the level of hardware is has any point for anything others than gaming. And so maybe that's why they dragged the feel is there are rumors about a new application coming out of supposedly does have a Better soc and more RAM and apple intelligence capability and all you know all the stuff. But I don't I don't remember what the date associated with that r and i'm sure apple not in hurry.

But IT is interesting to think about this law in the apple TV where until we get A K everywhere, even even if we do get A K everywhere, like by that point, the apple T V calibre S O C should be able to handle A K five, like, you know, is this basically this gaining boxer? Is that not gaining box? What is going to come with the controller? And that is the decision apple is probably going to have to make because there will be many years of time where the apple T V is completely adequate for all video functions. And then the question is, why would anyone ever buy? Another one thinks.

no. I mean, no argument to crime, but I get IT. They can also .

improve the remote, because even though they made IT Better than IT was.

it's still, I grate. All stop.

It's perfectly good. It's fine. Yeah, I great. It's fine.

It's Better than fine. You roms mine. I use that.

I use IT all the time. And every time I use that, I just think about how much Better I could be. It's like killing me IT sound.

But I was just like, what do you need to change every? We don't have the time for this.

but here we go. What do you need to change? So the dept. Essentially up, down that, right, right. And the wipe y thing in the middle, I know you can disable this way, everything in the middle, but enabling allows you to swipe through things faster, but disabling and allows you to use the ring more easily.

But I feel like the ring is just not as not as secure to me as an actual dept. I still have to think about the our southeast west of IT because IT is one continuous ring. And I still have to kind of think about not touching the touch bed, but I want to keep a touched bed and able because I do swipe sometimes.

So that's unsatisfactory. And the whole size of IT, it's bigger than IT was in terms of thickness, right? But it's still not really filling the negative space on my hand in the way that I wanted to, to.

Still feel like it's still little bit small. There is advantage during small looks. Elegant is good for people with small hands, but from my hands still feels a little bit small, a little bit fiddy.

And it's nothing like I talk about the evil remote, but just any other kind of like more Normal size remote with bigger bef AR, more distinct button that I can use with less mental effort. It's not like i'm killing myself using the more I use, able to do all the time is basically the main promote I used for our television. Still feel like I could be Better and runs against everything that apple wants to do because they wanted to be small and elegant and whatever and they like.

Here's our concession to ergonomics. This is the new one, and we all celebrate IT because there was so much Better than the old one. But they're still father to go if they want to improve this thing. And I wh they would .

I understand what you're saying, but for me a well, I would love IT if IT wasn't the same shape as as an original intendo controller, you know, just a squared off rectangle, basically that is current. Tom elf are. But that being said, I don't think I want you to be very much bigger.

I can understand and ditching the rectangle shape, but I don't never knew you to be much bigger. Or do I wanted to be much bigger? I D like that.

It's a small little thing that my kids can use just as easily as I can like. I think it's in that sense for me. The size of IT is fine, but I concurred that the shape could be a little more economic.

definitely. Even A T O peanut gro got smaller over the years like I didn't stay the same size. It's question of striking that baLance, but I feel like the thickness maybe is more important than the length and with just sort of like you because it's not it's like how do you grip IT is the kind of like the apple mouse.

Some people love IT because they sell low profile because of the way they use the mouse, but other people don't use the mouse that way and they find the very low for mouse to be like against everything they want head of a mouse. So I feel like maybe they're notice the same way. But if either way, the the circular dept. With the touching in the middle, I feel like is such a weird compromise between the different functions that I always find IT.

It's I find that difficult to very quickly go life, life right down, down to the thing that I want and even just having to make the mental choice of, like, should I try to get there with the swiped pt first? Should I try to get there with like the digital dept, even just making that choice is a little bit of more cogitative loading? Again, I know you can disable IT, but like I, some parts of the U.

I are so much Better with the ability to swipe, but other part aren't. And I just feel like obviously is so much simple and civil world, but there's no swipe pad and just up, down that right? And you would just much because there was no other option where the choice and the buttons were b and easy to find even when they were still on the ring.

I feel like they were easier to find because you weren't IT worried about excel ally swipe going when you're in across the middle and responded faster to you. I don't know, like it's it's not a is just a bunch of menu, is not a big deal, is a much bigger deal that this stupid streaming apps forget where I was this in the thing and start playing the episode saw last night. That is a much bigger deal. That's a software, a bug and not a harbor issue. We're talking about the harbor right now.

So ah you can make martial rights IT feels like recently more more places ideal we want to copy or or want a copy of or to my driver's license, like the doctor's office for my child wants to meet up load of photo of both sides on to their APP where the school wants email with photo and i've become much more careful about keeping identity data places I do not have control over. Obviously, social security number is a different level.

But let's just talk about driver's licenses. How do you all handle this? I mean, do we have a choice in most cases?

I just got you up well actually so that the way I handle this is if it's something that I don't think really necessarily needs IT, I try to just not give IT and see what happens. So if for it's .

big marco energy .

yeah well know like like we change dentists from when we moved and um so and the new dentist wants basically every single thing about us drivers' license and social security numbers all it's I don't like why like what do they need that to like submit to the dental insurance that I don't have? Like, no, maybe they can just get away without IT and and you know are they just asking for IT so that they can try to chase me, identify, pay a bill?

Like, because I can just pay when I have the cleaning like, so no, I basically a lot of these things, it's all times people ask for stuff because it's routine or its quote standard or we might need IT or whatever. And when IT comes to your personal information, you can take the extra two seconds to be like what if I just don't give if you really need IT? It's like when the grocery store ask you for your phone number, they're doing because they want to do crap with your data.

And you can choose at that moment whether to give us them or not. Don't assume that like you know a place that seems more official than a grocery store for some reason like your dentist or whatever, like why do they deserve your data? There might be a reason why they what they absolutely needed, but they also might not fully needed.

And so you reserve the right to say, can I just not do this? Like, do like, can I not give you my driver? Can I not give you this information asking for? Like, what happens if I don't? Can we be proceed without IT? Like, you can ask those kind of questions.

And I and I strongly encourage you to do that more often because the more I have done that, the more often the answer is okay, fine all the time. It's just fine like it's like, you know, another example, this is not quite the same thing, but my current health insurance plan never mailed me a card, so I don't have a health insurance card. I haven't have one for like two years.

So when when I go to a new doctor, whatever, they always ask you know upon the scan of your card and I don't have IT, I have the number like I have my my policy number and so i've done things like take a screen shot of the one password screen showing my policy number, like IT literally in a screen shot of one password on my phone and said, will this work, or here's the number, is that all you need? And so far, in every single case, even when they are like, know, we need the card and i'll just say, why don't have one? Here's the number.

Try IT. And every single time i've able to get the care and IT has always just been fine. So again, push back a little.

If a place that doesn't need your driver's license is asking you for your driver's license, try saying no. Try saying you can we? Can we proceed without IT? Do you really need I? I would rather not share IT. Or you can make up some bs like my job requires me to to keep a certain gree of confident jelly like yeah whatever you need to say like don't be a joke about IT but try to push back and and actually asked, like do you really need IT or you just ask him because a lot of times they don't really need IT.

I was going to use the grocery store example too, because in my local grocery stars that I go to for many years, they were like, you have phone number with block a phone number. Can you give us a phone number? Whatever I want to say? No, no, no, no. There's they've changed recently to not asking that question, which I think is wise.

But instead having a system, they have, you know, whatever there, the rewards programme thing that of course, as an I O S APP and all other, because everybody makes you do to game ify their shopping, right? But the bottom line is you do get money off your food if you play this game. I and so the motivation is, hey, do you want a few bucks off your groceries? And the way they do is they don't ask you for your front anymore, but under the stupid little paddy thing that they have there, you type in your phone number to essentially get your discount to say, oh, now we know who you are.

Now we will register your groceries and the APP and give you the discount, your tittle to for doing rewards lobby bar, right? Whole foods has the a the amazon I don't think is amazon. But the whole foods has the thing where you get the diamond Q R code thing in their happen, you can at in the thing god knows what's on that you are that they're scanning.

It's probably all about your information anyway, right? Uh, and I I forget if I said this, but recently I changed my action button to launch the whole foods out because you can never find you your code because I realized the main time that I am trying to do something under time pressure on my phone and I find that frustrated ditties is unlocking and a lunching the whole who's up so I can scan IT. So that's what my action button does now because i'm using the camera control for the camera action button launches the whole of I don't I don't shop at whole foods that often .

I was going to ask how you freak in .

whole foods mean is within walking distance. So if you need something last minute, you just walk to the whole foods. But I don't actually do my gross shopping there.

I do star market, which is a local chain that probably the whole is all chains in this area. Now who are the shows bought them recently? Recently means like ten years ago.

But anyway um starmer has the APP. They don't ask you your phone number, but if you want your discount, they have nothing for you to scan as far as i'm a where you gotta type. So i'm typing my telephone number into the keypad rather than giving IT to the match.

Guess is Better than reading add into the air. But anyway it's ridiculous um for the driver license thing. I think one of the reasons to see a lot more of this happening is two fault.

one. Uh, there are more online account thing is these days that give you some way to prove you are who you are to give some kind of backstop for account recovery. And they essentially just need you some proof of identity and they have you scan your drivers' license or your passport or some other thing.

Uh, obviously only do that if you think the value of being able to recover your account through proving who you are is worth the loss of privacy, of giving these people you're thing. How much you trust the company? Do you really care about this account? Like usually this is an optional right thing, but that that's part of the same family of activities of like they just need you to prove who you are, but you're not there.

A lot of times, if you're there in person, if they just need your driver's license for you to prove your identity, you don't have to scan IT or give IT to them. You can just show IT to them and maybe, you know you can see if they are typing gun, your driver's licence number or do they just wanted to say yes? A human being has now seen and like like a bouncer to bar, look at your ID and decided, I think this is a real ID.

You are josh mw, you have a state issued identification thuds up. And then they never stand IT, and hopefully they never write anything down about you showing IT to them and then putting him back into your world. So that is another kind of middle ground.

Like mark said, you can just say no and see both. The consequences are most of the time that you just need the information. I think I don't know this for a fact.

I think a lot of the things health care providers in particular want you to scan both sides of your card is because they're so sick of trying to navigate the world of getting people to give them the correct information from your side of the card. And that is like if we just get something will figure out where IT is. Oh, it's this number but not this suffix, but don't worry about your group number, but we need this ID and but like just gain the cards.

I feel like it's just say like, you know, avoiding a customer service issue. And so in that case, if you wanted to skirt around that is like do you just need my member number because i'll just give you that it's this and I don't even have like mark, I don't even have a car, but that's what you need. And very often, like critical number, they can look at the member number for whatever your insurances isn't.

Know whether you've omitted the right number of characters in the beginning or whether you've tacked on a group number without like they can figure that out. So that's that's pretty much what I do as well. Although I have to say that for my driver's license and stuff like that, I just assume everyone can get that information anyway. My social get number a lot higher security that I I have to say I don't think anyone has asked to my social security number and in a situation where I don't think they needed but drivers license some a little bit more cavalier with because whatever but yeah um push back and see what .

happens this totally set aside the question of whether these things actually are keeping you secure with the whether you can keep these things reasonably secret. What happens when they do get out, they like this.

sets all that aside. Whether someone going to buy a database of all this information right right now for hundred something.

yeah, exactly like most of that does not matter. I would also say the two things. While you were talking, I tried to decode my whole foods, uh, Q R code and IT decodes into a bind, into a basic for.

And then what appears to be a custom binary blog that begins with A M Z. So amazon and then some binary data that I don't immediately understand. So there's there's a lot actually in there. I assume there is some kind of expiring signature thing because it's one of those things that you know there's cycle every few seconds and if you try to take a screen shot at yells at you actually says for my security screen .

shot allow oh really .

that's for my security um but anyway yeah so know what's there but um also in in grocery stores with loyalty things so I actually do use the whole food one because I you know between that and using amazon's prime b is a hard to actually get a decent amount of all foods Prices.

So yeah think complained about this before. But like you is when I pay, I pay with an amazon card to make me the code you already know who I know active dots like it's it's it's an amazon card and an amazon store I still have to find my action button to and the study you already know who I am, just give me the honey ly, the whole foods you get discount, like three percent of their products .

is very fresh ating yeah anyway. But at other store is like we have like you know a non whole foods just chain grocery store here. Of course, every girls restore has lighty things, but the the cashier asks, do you have a whatever card and and I don't.

Every time I say sorry, I don't and and if you just nice, sorry, I don't have. On ninety percent of the time, the cash are like a output for you, don't worry. And they put in their cards, they get the rewards.

whatever you have nice for cashiers than we do the cash. Is here a train to say, O, D.

you want one here, here, here. There are a lot more. There are a lot more, I think, a lot less aggressive with the sales bit.

They just want to keep moving. And so yeah, I put one in for you. sure.

I'm a great thank you every time. Thank you so much. And then know they get their points. I get the discount and I didn't have to have all the track.

The pro move there is, oh, I left you in the car or i've forgot IT at home, which is a little bit of a White light.

but they want type in your telephone number, we up by your phone number now.

fair ough. Yes, it's much Better. You say so I don't have because of the most they they want to stop the flow of customers to try to explain to you why you should have one find, put an empire peep. And then they done. They move on, right?

Kalia asks. My parents are both in their late sixties and occasionally of issues with past for management getting devices set up of considered i've considered proposing pulling them into my apple, 我 女朋友， in setting up legacy context, do you have any advice or suggestions? Or do you manage the counter technology for your parents? This has been a little bit of issue for me.

I don't have any good answers, but my parents are getting older, and I think that I am starting to approach the time where I really need to get this stuff square away before one or both of them loses their their cognizant. I can't think you are not looking for maybe i'm losing IT, but anyway, the point is, is that I need to have this conversation with them and I haven't yet and and I I know that this is coming. Marco, I know you had grandparents at pass couple years back. I don't know if you have any thoughts about this for your parents and then john, your parents are still kicking. What's end with john, please so mark l, let's start with you.

Yeah I saw yeah no back back with my grandparents were still around um everything know the tools were all different. I'm fortunate ought not to have to deal with this yet with the next generation then the our parents generation um but you know certainly it's coming up. I'm thankful all these new tools are here now you know like i'm thankful that we have things like legacy contacts that all of the family plans in, in the apple. Another similar environments have gotten a lot Better or a lot more full featured. We have things like remote control diagnostics like you know remote screen sharing ly, that that kind of stuff is getting Better all the time and getting without going to to insecure or too controlling.

Um because what you have to baLance and this is this is so tRicky with so much of aging and and caring for living with or or being being with elderly uh relatives, is there there's a tRicky baLances you have to walk between let them them be independent, have their own lives versus you being available to help them um and that's just different with everybody and and that can change over time like you know as somebody gets older, they might be either OK with you, take more control or they actually might want you to take more control, but that's going to depend. So like what you do with with your particular situation, you got to just be constantly evaluating that and and you adapting to what your actual needs are. So IT might require something like you have like you can remote in to their stuff whenever whenever they need help.

You might be something like that, or they might not want you to have that level of access yet. You might be more like, you know, maybe you keep a copy of their password and they can call you if you forget, if they forget them, know that could be as simple as that. But again, IT IT all depends, and it's always an evolving situation.

So kind of just, you know, keeping open mind to what you might have to do. Be willing to change things, be willing to make IT easy on them. And you know, don't assume that any one solution that you come up with the last forever.

So my parents um they thinking about one of the things that saving me from having to deal with a lot of this is the fact that neither one of them really maintains any sort of digital collection of stuff like they're just they just never like they have their own photo libraries and their sink type de photos.

But they're just sparse disorganize and just not important to them really like what for example, when my parents make their like calendar for the year, we all make like calendars and like share flyer whatever, like we put on our fridge and have pictures of family photos or whatever most of the photos in the counter or photos that I take that I sent them to put in the account, or they get sent from other siblings to them, like they are not taking pictures, they're not collecting pictures, they are pictures of, they go on vacations and they take pictures, but very few, and who knows if they ever look at them? And so the real question is for like legacy contacts and dealing with their digital stuff or whatever, what happens if they die and no one has access to their stuff? The answer is they have no stuff.

He just like, what do they have? They have accounts on systems that I don't care about, like no one is going to care about after they die, what their logging was to their local like newspaper website because who cares? right? So i've got all the use names and passwords.

And by the way, on that front, I tried to hurt by parents towards the sort of happy path apple default things are whatever. But in practice, uh, you know, my dad is somewhat willing to do them. My mother insists on having a document with all her passwords in IT.

It's nothing you can do about that and fine like if that system works for her and that's what works for her. And but like honestly, like what if you lose access document if she's dead? Like I don't need those.

It's like nobody needs those passwords. Like i'm not worried about losing was really just more of like I feel like my job is moralize just like facilitating their ability to do what they want to do with their computers. And what they want to do with their computers is not the same as what I want to do. And in my particularly case, also does not leave any sort of digital assets that I have to worry about.

Now that said, I didn't make them all set up legacy contacts and said because I did all the apple things like because why not why not do that like they don't need like this one day when we visit with each other and I mall, I used to be there Better about doing them, not like I don't want to bring my laptop on. The plane is so heavy, they just want to bring their ipad in their phone, right? And their laptops, not heavy, but anyway, like they used to bring all the tech products.

And part of us, meaning was like, here, john, here all the tech products. And they would, my mom make a list and notes and say, here's all the problems of having with my computers. And we just go through the one of the time, get this to work.

Why does this thing do this? I wanted do this. I wanted do that, or whatever. We, we just go through all those, and I fix all their computer problems and let go back and do what they want to do uh but trying to sort of impose like, oh, everyone needs to use one password.

We all need to be in the same apple family or like if they're up for that, if your earth has up for that, fine, but mine aren't. Honestly, I wouldn't want them included to my apple family because that's just a complication that I don't need to do. What personally, we should really just keep those things separate.

But yeah, I help them what I need help with and I make sure that they're able to live their life and do computer stuff. Uh, and I think, you know, my parents are always like this with their belongs are already trying to like give away they're old photo albums of us as kids, like physical photo alms of us as kids because they only want to deal those anymore, right? Uh, so they're pretty good about dispersed sing their stuff.

And honestly, I would be shocked if the head more than like ten thousand photos in their libraries and how many those are actually good as probably even smaller. Now I think those are valuable photos on vacations with ves like we don't have those pictures. Sometimes they send them to us like our our inviting here we are in flour to look at a on the speech, whatever, right?

Uh, and personably, they have some of those, but they're just not pick picture tigers and they don't collect them and they don't really do anything with them. So if I lose access all of that watch, I won't something like the contact. But if I did IT ouldn't be that big deal. So yeah, I think mark was getting get the heart of IT, which is like, you gotta figure out what these people actually need from you, not what you think they should be doing with computers. And that really clarifies your role in all of this render Miller rights.

I shot down my new map for occasionally, but IT restarts when I touch any key on the keyboard. Why on earth would apple do this? And leave no way to turn this quote, quote feature off. I most agree with this. I find IT frustrating as well. Um I particular find this frustrating when I go to clean my keyboard, which usually involves matching down on the button from time to time and um that I find that very frustrated now there is a tool um which one of you are presumed johns put in the shown notes called keyboard clean tool that fixes the keyboard cleaning problem but I don't have any solutions for the touch anything to turn the computer on problem.

Yeah, that's the turkey Better. There's many apps that do this that basically like disabled LED the keyboard until you do some really complicated thing that you're unlikely to do by accident. I don't know if the one were putting in the show is like the coron called good one.

IT is just the one that I found that seem legally rapidly. But there's a million of these apps, right? But you do need one. Sometimes if you want to clean the keyboard without fear of excEllent doing something bad, your computer is not like you worried about waking IT up for the screen turning on.

You worried that, like you can accidently hit a key part command that's going to, like, delete something, or like, you know, you will see, just want to say, I want all key presses to just go nowhere for a while because I going to cleaned my keyboard and that separate from the turning off thing but as relevant as you like oh, all of this promptly to specialist. I'll just shut down my mac. And that used to work until many, many years ago.

I forget when they said, guess what, touching anything on the surface of this laptop will make a booking from a simply quote, office state. You shut down, not sleep. You shut down your portable macos computer.

And then what makes IT turn on? IT used to be, there was a power button, but then they kind of of that, then there was a such I D button. They said, you know what, to wake up if you touch anything.

And now shut your computer down to clean the keyboard very carefully. Uh, no longer works. Because of this. I find a frustrating to I believe there probably is some firm where I was going to say open firm where whether the help, whatever the hell, the firm where that the ARM based max use to turn this off. But it's not sort of a user visible you know feature that you could find that to do you somewhere as far as I know. So I kind of understand what apple did this because searching for the power button on max has been a bit of a silly game for many years.

Uh, and IT seems seem silly to technical to like I remember when the power board was on the keyboard and I loved that is whatever you don't know where IT is like, people just want to open up the laptop and if it's turned out, they just want to mashed with their media pause and have to turn on. So this is the right thing to do. Ninety nine percent of the time, except one percent of time when you want clean the keyboard when is incredibly frustrating.

So I don't know the solution. Maybe there should be a guy to total as often and system setting somewhere that nobody can find. But yeah, in the meantime, maybe check out one .

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I see john's quick silver update. Like, is this quick silver like the launcher from a thousand years ago?

Quick sure is.

oh my god, what happened? It's been in the .

notes for a while. I started using quickly solver ages ago as my launch of thing. I used a very limited way of the show, also just used to launch apps and do a few other things about a few years in years.

Uh, and you, I know another launchers. I own other launchers as well. But I just like, I, I like looks. I looks so like everything about IT so used to I don't need that to do anything fancy er than that does.

Everything's fine, uh but quicks over being a very old APP who is original developers moved on to do other things, has had a bumpy road in recent. The the best five years. So maybe, uh, uh, I think someone else picked up the project, but there's not a lot of people developing and maintaining IT.

And when IT works, that's fine, but IT starts getting flicky. It's like, uh, it's open source. Maybe I could try to fix that myself.

I can never get the second thing to build because of some of your x code error that I can't figure out in a subjective seas. And I do that, you file a bug, but then you feel bad. This is just one guy trying to maintain anything in this spare time.

And you like, maybe I should just china have launched, as I just go through all the other launchers that are held on by the latest Alfred power pack. Make sure I have the latest version of all the things. Try red cast.

All these new fancy things was like, you know, I can get by with some of these, but I kind of quick silver and then the quick server devil, I come back from vacation and make a change and a quick s all start working again and just I just feel like i'm kind of stuck here because I I just so used to quick and I just wanted continue to work the way that has always worked uh, but the things ever getting hang up. And so some of the problems of having with IT is some guys just playing crash, and that's one of the worst things that can do is the faces I run IT and faceless. There's no dog icon, there's no menu bar icon on just faceless is just part of my mac.

And there's nothing worse than having command space and having nothing happen because I have a small light bound to command option space. So having a launcher inturning command space and starting to type and nothing happening. Well, a that typing is now going into whatever the hell you are in, like a message window, like whatever the beginning of what you're gona type.

And b just makes your computer feel like it's broken, right? It's just like, uh, just it's like it's like getting on escalator that doesn't move, right? My computer is not doing what is supposed to do and then it's like hung in the background or it's like it's crashing you to be launch IT and how would I we launch IT command space cue you all know that doesn't work.

Check like I know how many times i've done that to try to relate ch quake. It's just madness, right? Um sometimes that hangs. And there's other thing that I was doing that I actually found buggone was like I would launch.

But if you look at the quick over catalogue, which is like the list of things you wanted to index that are searching, I have a very limited catala with a bunch of custom items in IT. And I like type command space, start typing something and I wouldn't auto complete to the thing that I know is there. And i'd go look at the cat ogun and they would be like, yeah, look in this folder and scan all the files and he was a zero item scanned.

Like, what do you mean zero item? So at the little refresh circle button, and I would can IT inside one hundred items. Or why didn't you scan them when you put IT up? It's like, how do you have is set to manually scan to automatically scan to can every hour you know, like I tried all these different things to the bomb line was I was just not scanning my catalogue.

You log in, you know you'd boot. You can be a log in and quick that we will be running, but half the catoe would not be scanned for no errors. Logged anywhere was just like, I can't like, I can use IT like this like either it's crash is not running at all, or when it's running, I hit command space and start typing stuff and IT doesn't find the things that I says how like this is.

This is too much. I can't. It's not doing the job that I used to do. So I spent a while using Alfred and I sort hammer effort into shape to try to make IT more like weeks over.

It's not exactly I could in in ways that are in pointless ways, just like as that like I like the big I use like the quick over buzzum bezel classic. I think whatever is there was the gino appearance of quick over. And they they changed IT years and years ago.

And I complained that I said, hey, when you just leave the old appearance and two, you have seven different appearances, but you deleted the original appearance, just leave them all and so we can pick our appearance. And they brought back the one, and they call all the classic whatever. That's the one that I used, got really big icons.

When you type command space, start typing something. It's cycles through the matching icon, like as you type as IT refines IT IT just based, just shows the topic and configure ably, you can make IT after a delay, show you the second and third and forth hit, or you can make IT only when you had the downtown, show you the second, third hit. But the bottom line is, when i'm typing, I just want to see one very large icon right in front of me, that is cycling as I type things.

And if I wanted, I have a set. So if I want to see the third forth, the second, third, fourth options I use the downtown alford does not work like that. Alford has a configurable amount of stuff that is going to show you, but IT doesn't.

You can show you the one item and the icon is smaller. And if you do make IT, show you only like the one item and then you don't have the option to show the other ones like it's it's just not the same. But you know, hey, IT works.

So I was using Alfred for a long time, but like I said, the the quick over developers came back and he fix some bug in something and I click up there wasn't crashing anymore and by the I cooks up there was only crashing in my computer, but out of my wife computer, but he has a different catalogues that than I do and SHE, but for a while was freezing in her computer and he was complain about quick solo. Am I going going to have to take her off quick solo? Or maybe I put on the spotlight and just it's maybe think about like how such a small part of my computing life can throw everything else in the chaos.

It's kind of like a like the right button m on your mouse only work sometimes. Just it's not it's not a big deal, but it's like big deal often is generally how often you're doing that, like does a quick work around just click IT again or something right? And then you know the work around a quick slow like launch IT with spot later, whatever, but it's just been a mess anyway.

Right now i'm going to to click over again and it's no longer crashing in the longer reading at scanning my headlock so fingers cross i'm gona write myself a quick server replacement and like that I can didn't get quick server to build do to things that are above my pay grade in x code because just not to build. There may be you will build but I won't have to bugger because I wanted to like catch where the crash was a whatever like l be some are want to attach to IT um the anyway that's that's all I just want you to complain about. Click is over which has been such a fixture in my computing life and i'm sure when is ongoing to send me all their alternatives.

I always said I probably already own all of them um and some of them are really good and some of them are really cool and some you know tons of them do things that quick were couldn't even dream of but i'm just I used to quick. I just wish I would like continue to work the way used to work and I would be happy with I don't need any new features. I don't need anything. I just needed to stay the same as IT is forever. But unfortunate that's not the way computers work.

I mean, you you are gonna all those responses from everybody saying, why did you switch to launch your access that so many of them that they are very good now. And I feel like I did switch ua from cook server. Um but I understand why you don't want to because these launchers become such a part of how you interact with the computer.

Your comparison to the right mass button is is not that bad because he is like a basic input mechanism IT IT is like changing to a different launcher. I think it's kind of like changing your keyboard. It's like you can get one that works pretty similarly. There's going to be a lot of differences in some of the details um but it's and IT is a fundamental way that you interact with your mac. It's like changing your show.

which is another thing that i've been resisting doing since one thousand and ninety three because I thought using ancient shell and i've complained about this uh, a couple times online, if you do anything with unique stuff they're like, oh and sure, just copy in pace this and that will do what you want and is always for bash or these days you'll see it's for bash or fish.

There's just so much opens to our software that is simply of course, everybody uses bash or fish or Z S H that's those are the only shells, right? Like, no, that's not my shell and all shells are not the same and I can't cop in pace that because I want to work in my shells so yeah, changing launchers, like, like changing shell. That, oh, I could change shells really easily.

But now I gotto take everything that I built up since one thousand and ninety three in my shell, which is tcs h, which is something and nobody to use that do not use the shell. But anyway, I would have to take all that stuff and reproduce IT in my new shell. And it's exactly the same, a quick, slow, although it's a smaller number of things.

So you want to use Alfred, can I essentially point all the things that I was doing in click sofa and have them be the same keyboard choke? So IT just looks different, but work to the same. And the answer is, yes, I could do that and did do that after some pain. But in the end I didn't quite look the same.

And it's like, what what do you care? Looks slightly different. It's fine. Like, who cares work so yeah, offered is my fall back. I have offered up to do pretty much everything quick, not everything, everything that I care about, the quick overdoes.

There's some other stuff like I think quick about as large text a little bit, renting some other slight differences in searching and tabling in type and like there are still differences, but I can get by without that. That is my choice, my personal choice for replacement. But the time spent sort of supporting your world from one thing to another very much reminded me of what IT will be like someday when I forced to work my world from T, C, S, H.

To another shell. Yeah it's like it's a similar to a shell. If you mostly just use one of these launchers on its you know for it's like surface level feature of launching apps quickly like that.

That is what he does on the surface. You can do the same thing with spotlight a little bit less quickly. But you know, IT, for the most part, it's like you can use this on the surface and launches out quickly. And if that's all you do .

and the spot is really good these days, IT is much Better than he used to be every time I like fault back and I use spotlight. And like like spotlight is honestly one of my contenders for a quick over replacment is just use spotlight. It's not as configurable as any of those cool launchers and everything which is bad, but it's still pretty quick. And you know like .

consider that yeah IT is an option. The problem is like so if you if all you do is that service level stuff, then you can switch freely between these options and you won't notice that much difference. But again, like a shell of energy, the problem is, once you get into any more advanced features than that, then IT becomes this kind of like muscle memory.

Lock in of like IT becomes very disruptive. Like this is why? So my shell of choice, or my launcher of choice is launch bar. And I actually, for the most part, I am a very like shallow basic user of all these ancient features. I don't do the like you second level like do this and do this and do this like I don't do anything.

I most use IT as a launcher and occasionally as an a mogi search uh but basically like a launcher do you open files are founders but uh almost never only you know a couple of big hits like you know drop box like you all of that but you know for the most part no um I i'm i'm doing very basic things with these launchers. However, in launch bar, launch bar has by far my favorite multiple clipboard manager interface. Um and it's not because it's like the best in the world.

I don't know. I haven't used every clipboard manager. It's because IT fits me really well and I have incredible muscle memory for IT and any mac does not have clip management done. The way I think I should be done like a launch bar um feels broken to me like I get that from that.

And so even though i'm only using a fairly shallow amount of the features in this launcher that many other launchers can could do just fine, I am a hundred percent tied to launch bar the same way you are to quick over because I like the clipboard management is just in my, is in my hands like I like, yes, I could learn a different system if I really had to, but the amount of friction require when I don't have the way launch for like any change in that introduces sumro. It's almost like changing keyboard layouts. It's like like yeah I can type on you like you know some other you know non U S.

English keyboard layout. But i'm going to make a lot of mistakes and i'm going to be slower for a little bit and it's going to be frustrating if I don't need to be doing that. So that's how this is. Like it's it's a changing keyboard like like yeah you can you can get by but why why get by with a change to get you to be if you don't have to .

yeah i'm kind of reading not dreading like we've been saying for years, apple dead, multiple clippard support to all the oasis, my god, disabled by default available because IT is such like once every nerd in the world has mutilated for like a decade now, right? But and that is a nerd feature. But it's at this point, I feel like I kind of like the second mouths button.

It's like it's so important. Every O S needs to have second mouse spotted support building, and also multiple clipper support building. You can disabled by fault or not to confuse people, but it's gotta be there. But the danger for people like us is okay. But we all got our favorite third party clippard managers to be been using for a decade now.

The question is, do I keep using my third party wonder? Do I switch to the system on switching with the system as I go? It's one you are thing, have to worry about installing whatever.

But IT surely will work differently than whatever third party when we're using, and we ve got all our muscle. Only problem is not like apples going to make IT infinite figure able. So apple, please add multiple ports support to every single O S you make.

Uh, but please also do not disabled the ability for us use a third party ones. You probably need some accessibility permission that require seventeen dialogues. You have to reconfirm every readers.

For the record, nobody asked what I have been using, Alfred forever. I've tried most of the other ones. And esthetically I don't have any problem with them off time, my head, but they think differently than I do.

And so because of that, it's just a nonstarter for me. What's the one that everyone is obsessed with lately? Rake care's something like that?

Yeah, right. Is one of the fancy new laundry.

Yeah I mean, I tried to briefly again IT just does not think the way I think IT doesn't mean bad. I'm not saying it's bad at all. I'm not saying that launch bar bad or quickly as bad.

It's just none of these things. Click with the way I like to get things done. And so because of that, i've been on off red forever. I've had the power packs all the time. That's always been what i've used, and I have no particular reason to be anytime soon.

Yeah every is think about the shell thing because it's like I just to give an example, one of the things that is good except for is mounting volumes uh because the finders sucks so bad that mt. Them to the founders like playing teeth but I can hit command space and had two letters and they returned.

It's so much trusted, uh, when you change shells, one of the things you have to court court port is, oh, I probably t up many alliances that I use in my shell. And IT is themselves are fine, just something you happen thing happens. But if you have complicated aliases, porting those allies to a new shell at minimum requires you learning this index to declare an alias in the share is different than europe s but you might also have to quote things differently to capture arguments for the second argument here.

Whatever or which things needs to be escape with oub backlash for a single back, like stuff like that makes me think about what I had to do with the Alfred to do the simple thing which offered is one hundred percent capable love. But how long they take me to figure out how to make Alfred mount a volume, a passport protected volume and response through key for sequence and and took me an embarrassingly long time uh so yeah that like that I mean, I again, i'm saved by the fact that I don't do much for the quick server, so I didn't have support too many things. But if I had to put all my l is and honor ly, don't like other shells that much.

There any, just do not use T, C, don't shelter. Use T, C, S, H. Let them use bash or Fishers, E, S, H, or something more modern. But IT seems like if this members is gonna die using T C S H.