Manchester is RED | Boxing Day blues | United fed to the Wolves
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Hello and welcome to a festive edition of the Manchester is Red podcast without any of the normal festive fun unfortunately for Manchester United over this Christmas period. The Manchester is Red podcast now sponsored by NordVPN and if you're going away over New Year then make sure you're armed with NordVPN on your travels and all your devices and it's the fastest VPN in the world. You can change your virtual location to any location across the world so if you're out of the

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You'll find those links in the podcast description as well, if you can't remember them. I'm Tyrone Marshall, hosting today, joined by Stephen Ralston, who is fresh from a trip to Molyneux. Stephen, how are you? How's your Christmas been? I'm brilliant, thanks, Ty. I had a great Christmas and we've finally got a sponsor, so...

I paid for the Christmas gifts this year, thankfully. Plenty of turkey, plenty of pigs in blankets, plenty of beer as well. So I wasn't too hungover, to be fair, actually, on Boxing Day. And it helped that it was a 5.30 kick-off, of course, down at Molyneux. We were just discussing our respective hangovers or maybe not hangovers. But you had a good day as well, didn't you?

I did, yeah, yeah. It was a very good Christmas. My five-year-old woke up at 5.30 in the morning, so that wasn't great. It does make it a very long day. I feel like that's the start of something now. I think a Christmas day lie-in is a good decade away for me now. But, yeah, it was an early start and just makes it such a long day. I remember being sat there in the morning on the sofa looking at my watch thinking, oh, my God.

I'm going to go have a shower and get ready soon. It was only 10am. It's still quarter past eight. It's going to be a long day. They got Mr Men Monopoly as well. So I played Monopoly twice on Christmas Day. So I needed the BSBL, like we say. It wasn't too bad on Boxing Day morning. And I was doing the early kickoff. I was doing City. So thankfully it wasn't too bad. And it was nice to get done, basically. Get home and get on the sofa to watch

or what I could see of it through the fog. Anyway, it was very foggy at Molineux. It was foggy everywhere yesterday. But the fog was bad and the football was worse, essentially. It's a shame it wasn't foggy. You could still see the pitch by the sounds of things, Stephen. And for United fans, seeing the pitch was not ideal yesterday.

Yeah, the conditions were bad coming down. There was an expectation for the Liverpool game, wasn't there, for the Leicester match, but I don't think he made it as that far at Molineux. Ruben Amrum said the storm was coming, didn't he, the other week? It has arrived. The Manchester City game, that was a fantastic result in the Manchester derby. It had to be the turning point, they had to kick on after that, and they suffered three defeats in the space of a week. So Christmas is not enjoyable at the moment for Manchester United.

The 3-0 game against Bournemouth, that was terrible and I think the travelling supporters coming along to Molineux on Boxing Day probably weren't expecting much and unfortunately that transpired on the pitch. It was a really low quality first half and obviously the sending off in the second half makes a mountain to climb. Bruno Fernandes was incredibly daft making that challenge in the first half on Kuna who had a really good game. If he was making an audition to sign for United he passed it with flying colours.

And then Fernandes goes and gets that sending off in the second half. Just a really daft, stupid challenge of his studs up. And from that point on, you never thought United were going to win that game with 10 men. Wolves had the ball in the back of the net just a few moments later through Strand Larsson. And then it was...

Says a lot about him that he was offside there. It really didn't have to be. His positioning was really bad. But Wolves are a really bad team and they still won that game. Obviously with the two goals. You just look at that United team now and they're almost in a relegation battle. 14th in the Premier League. It's surreal to say really when you look at the Premier League table. And the caveat is it is obviously incredibly tight in the Premier League table. But I mean Everton are five points off them now.

And Everton have become the joke club of the nation, but United aren't too far behind now, unfortunately. And Ruben Amram has a heck of a job on his hands on the basis of that game yesterday.

Yeah, I thought it was telling about the quality of Wolves that at 1-0 up with 10 men, they just sat back and they were really poor. And United had a bit of momentum at that point. And you were watching it thinking this team, this Wolves team are terrible and United are going to lose to them. But let's look at the first half first, because that was 11 v 11. That's a fair assessment of a game with an even number of players there.

And to be honest, I didn't think United particularly got first half. Wolves shaded it, had the better chances. And, you know, if we're looking at 11 v 11, again, United just looks so flat. There's no creativity in that team. You're struggling to see how they score. And even 11 v 11 in that game.

There was just very little to write home about, very little excitement. They just looked what they are, didn't they? A really average, mediocre team, I thought. It's just so low quality. It looked like a game between two relegation sides. I was going to tweet that at half-time and I felt I might get some pellets, so I said...

Two sides are in the bottom half of the Premier League table because that's how they're performing right now. They deserve to be where they are, both sides. And United are almost on Wolves' level. And Wolves have had such a bad season, obviously replaced Gary O'Neill. Vito Pereira's come in, he's oversaw two victories now. He seemed to be loving it at the end of the game. But I mean, in terms of the first half, Manuel Ugarte was the best player for me.

He had a really good performance in that first half. That kind of regressed, as you'd probably expect as the game went on, especially after the sending off. But he made some brilliant interceptions. He was breaking up play. He's had a good few weeks on an individual basis, despite up and down results and some bad results. I think he's started to show what he can do in the centre of midfield. And he was alongside Cobby Mayne. It's frustrating, isn't it, Ty, because we're watching...

at the moment and we all know what he can do but he had a difficult afternoon again unfortunately there was a few

bad passes and that's really uncharacteristic for me I mean I've watched plenty of him since he was 17 and one of his biggest strengths is his passing and when his passing is usually so slick and he's losing the ball it's not a good sign there was a few moments of that I mean having said that there was a few flicks that he did which were quite impressive there was a chance that he created into the box that Highland didn't get onto but you're right you just looked at that first half and it was a

again, a low quality game. And having said that, you come into the half and it's half time, it's nil-nil. You can still go out and win that game. Amar can say what he wants and go out in the second half. There's a huge opportunity there. But I mean, as we've just talked about that Fernandes sending off made it a mountain really. Yeah. And the

pretty telling that Fernandes walked off right next to Amarim who made no effort to... He just completely blanked him, didn't he? Yeah, totally, totally blanked him. Three red cards in 19 games for the captain now. I know the first of those, United won an appeal against Tottenham. The second, the one against Porto was kind of similar to this in that you're on a booking and then just do something so incredibly rash and stupid and

You know, there's got to be better discipline from the captain, I think. He left United short there. He could have absolutely no complaints, even though he did complain about both of them. I think they were probably both bookings. Certainly the second one, when you're on a yellow card, is a booking. And you should know that you're on a yellow. You've got to be so careful. It was an area of the pitch where he just didn't need to make the tackle. And it just kind of sums things up, doesn't it, at the moment? It was a complete...

a loss of self-control and a loss of discipline and United are going to pay for it when he's missing against Newcastle as well.

Completely. And when you're struggling, when you're underperforming and you can't get results and you're capped into stupid things like that, there's a reason why Amram just blanked them as he walked off the touchline. I mean, we looked down that straight away. And it made you think of Rashford, didn't it, against Victoria Pilsen in the Europa League. That was his last appearance to the club. Amram blanked them as he walked off the pitch. I'm not saying Fernandes is going to be banished now and that's his last game, but you can tell Amram was just so, so unhappy with Fernandes and rightly so.

It's bizarre, isn't it? Because Fernandes hadn't had a sending off until this season. And now he's had three red cards in five months.

So that's a bit quirky. But he's always had that in his game, hasn't he, really, where he plays on the edge, he's got that aggressive nature and he can go into challenges sometimes and that makes him the player who he is. But in times like these, when your team's in the doldrums, you have to have discipline, don't you, as you just said. And I mean, I kept looking across at the fans who travelled on Boxing Day and

giving up their time, spending their hard-earned money to come across in foggy conditions, a cold day. And then for your captain to let the team down like that, it's just not good enough, really. And it's such a shame. And as you said, the Newcastle game on Monday, Fernandes will now be unavailable for that. Give some time to think about it, I suppose. I imagine he apologised to his teammates.

Yeah, and this has been a very negative start to the podcast, but there is some good news, to be fair, for United, who are no longer conceding headers from corners. So that's something we have to look at as well.

As a positive, I mean, if you were to pick any club in world football that were going to concede direct from a corner twice in a week, it'd be Manchester United. It's the sort of thing that happens to them. I saw someone tweet after it had happened saying, conceding twice direct from a corner in the space of a week, you'll never sing that. And it just kind of sums it up that it is typical of United. And the fact that Kunya said afterwards that he was practising shooting from corners ahead of this game,

I mean, they just look so vulnerable. Why is Inada getting no protection from any of his teammates? He's got Wolves player in front of him and behind him who just stand their ground. No United player are trying to move him, trying to move those players. It kind of sums up that total lack of competitiveness and physicality that we see in that team so often.

It's a lot of humour at the moment isn't it? Because if you don't laugh you cry. Things have actually got that bad. And another set piece. There was a moment in the first half actually when Wolves tried it and Onna kind of swatted it away at this front post.

But if the delivery's right at the moment, you just know you're going to have a chance of scoring, don't you? Like the way they're defending at set-pieces. Everyone's spotted it. And it's unbelievable. It's actually ironic because since Amrim's come in, we'll watch the pre-match warm-ups, won't we? Before the game. They've started to practice defending set-pieces now. They never used to do it with St. Alvin charge. And yet all of a sudden, it's probably coincidental, but they've started to really... It's become a huge problem. I mean, two against Arsenal.

directly from a corner against Spurs against against City as well as a corner and obviously against Bournemouth as well and against Wolves so in the last what seven games has been six set pieces conceded from I mean it's just it's terrible and it's the most simple part of the game surely and when it keeps happening you should be on the training ground and practicing and thinking right how can we figure this out and I've got no doubt that they are doing that but it's not happening on a match day um

Carlos Fernandez is obviously looking after set pieces. Andres Georgian stepped back. He looks like the touchline henchman now. He's just kind of protesting with the fourth official. I'm not sure. I think Andrew Inanna has to do better for me. There was obviously some suggestions that that was a foul, but I think he's got to be stronger. He lacks that presence, doesn't he, Tyrone, the six-yard box Inanna? For all we talk about his improvement, he doesn't really have that commanding air about him to come out as a goalkeeper and have confidence to deal with it.

No, he doesn't. And like I say, you need, I think in that instance as well, you need your defenders to clear a path for you or to stop you being impeded. When you see two Wolves players on your goalkeeper, in a way, your mind should be thinking, right, what's going on here? Anon should be screaming at his players, but they should know before he's even seen them. They should be looking around. And when you look at that corner, it's almost zonal marking at that point, I think, for the corner they've actually scored from. Who's taking responsibility there? It's common sense, isn't it?

It is. And I don't know whether it's a lack of adaptability or whether it's, you know, I noticed in one of the interviews again, Amarim mentioned the physicality yesterday. I mean, they're just, they're getting bullied constantly in every game. They're getting bullied. And it wasn't long ago since Gary O'Neill said that this Wolves team haven't got the physicality to compete in the Premier League yet. They've just ridden roughshod over Manchester United. And, you know, whether it's just a lack of initiative to look in that penalty area and think, hang on, my goalkeeper needs help.

whether they're just, you know, they're basically drilled by Carlos Fernandez and this is what they do. No one looks at it and goes, hang on, we've been drilled into this, but we should go and help our goalkeeper here. And, and,

I mean, the whole set piece thing is becoming a real, it feels like a real test already for Amarim and his staff in that it's becoming an issue. And, you know, when it's an issue at sporting, maybe you get a bit of a spotlight shined on it. Everyone forgets about it. Here, it's going to be mentioned every week. He's changed who takes over the set pieces, yet the set piece coach is still on the staff, which is kind of awkward, really. Carlos Fernandez is 29 years old and he's,

is kind of in the spotlight already now because the United set piece record and it does it kind of feels like a real test already for for what it's a very young coaching staff doesn't it well I remember it said didn't he recently kind of try to take the spotlight away from Fernandez and say no it's on me which was admirable for him to do that and I guess he has to do that as the manager but it is a huge test and you're right he's 29 years old he's a young coach he's coming to the club um the other assistant I always butcher is the pronunciation of his name

candido with delio yeah that's the chat i mean exactly so he's yeah younger they are a young staff amram's a young young coach himself i think they've got the right man i think they've got the right coaches the problem is he doesn't have the right players to play in the system the the away section emptied very very quickly a few stayed behind to kind of accept the groveling apologies from the players but the fans are sick of that they don't want to see these groveling hollow apologies they want to see their actions on the pitch

But you look at that performance yesterday and at the moment, Amram just does not have the players to play in that system, does he? And we've talked about the natural fullbacks playing. So Dallow and obviously Masrari started in those roles again.

it's just not working that I think Ahmad's got to slot back into the right win back position for me because Dalot and Maswari they don't have enough to attack and threat do they and you've got to have someone who can offer that if you play that system because United are just looking so blunt at the moment in attack like yesterday they just didn't create a big chance did they which is just against Wolves who started the day off they're still in the relegation zone they were definitely in the relegation zone before the game I'm not sure if the wins lifted them above but

you've got to do better than that. It's just so poor. Yeah, it really is. And it's telling you mentioned the attack. At the moment, it feels like every time Rasmus Hoyland starts, I think Xerxe should start the next game. Then every time Xerxe starts, I think actually Hoyland should start the next game. And Hoyland has had his moments...

But neither of them really convinced. And yesterday, I mean, the only United player that looked like scoring yesterday was Harry Maguire, which basically says it all, doesn't it? They just look so, so blunt and toothless in attack. It was interesting when I thought about Highland this season, because you look at him, he just doesn't do enough off the ball and his hold up plays are good enough. And that is completely true. But also United just don't create another. They're not really getting him into a huge number of positions.

there is times where he should do better there's no doubt about that and that ball that i mentioned from manum in the first half he actually played quite a good cross into the box and holland should probably get on the end of that and there was a moment as well from from the kickoff when united overloaded the left for five players passed it back to an honor loved it forward and holland might have got something onto that as well so he does he does get the occasional few chances but

there is an element of not creating enough room and when you watch him he's always got his shirt muddied samuel said that it's actually true in the press box yesterday he's always got grass marks on his shirt and you think well how what does he do he always seems to be tussling with the center half and it was a physical battle yesterday

He seemed to do a lot of complaining. He looked very unhappy. He walked through the mix zone first. Fernandes was already on the bus after having an early shower. I asked Ireland if he could have a word. He just looked at no, one word response. And he was not happy, which is understandable. But he has to do better. And you're right. It's,

yin and yang you're watching Xerxes put Highland back in United do not have a goal scorer we said this last season it's the same problem they're saying Xerxes to solve that problem that is just so daft it was daft in the summer looking at it it scored 12 goals for Bologna thinking of Highland there but really they're the same strikers and they had the same goal scoring records in Italy

That was the thing. I mean, I said a couple of times in the summer, they had almost identical Serie A records, really. And, I mean, you watch Xerxe now, I don't really see any hope or any future for him at United, to be honest. Hoyland has got some potential, I don't know,

I don't think he's going to be the striker that gets United close to winning the league, to be honest. I still think long-term he'll be very good. Do you agree with that? But we've just been banging on about this for ages. He's not a 20-goal striker. Maybe he will be in his late 20s. But that's your hairs off, isn't it? Yeah, it really is. And I'm not...

100% convinced he gets there. I mean, his finishing is good, to be fair. I don't really think there's an issue with his finishing. He does put himself around, but he's still very raw. And I still think if he was in maybe the Xerxe role as the number two striker to a Harry Kane or just someone better, you'd maybe think, yeah, okay, this is a good lineup. But Hoyland...

should not be the main man at Manchester United at this age for me. But if you heard what we're saying, Ty, we were saying this in the summer and this all goes back to the poor plan in the summer with Amram inheriting the struggling team and the players that were signed that we questioned and what we're saying about Xerxes and Highland. We could all see it coming. So if we could see it coming, how did the people not run the football club see it coming? Well, exactly. And I mean, we'll come on to things the people running the football club didn't see coming in the second half of the show, but

The signing Xerxe thing, I know it was a release clause and they paid 35 in the end or something like that. But Ivan Toni moved for about 50 million and surely he's going to be on a whack in Saudi Arabia. I'm sure it would have taken less to play for Manchester United. And I would almost guarantee a hitter scored more goals than Haaland and Xerxe have this season. And that is just what you need. And

The thing with Hoyland is I don't think he'll ever be worth £72 million again, to be honest. I don't think that's his level. I think he should be a solid squad player at United. I'm not sure long-term he's the number nine this club needs if it wants to get back to where he is. I think he will become a good player, maybe a very good player. Will he become a number nine capable of winning United win the league? I don't think so. I do think he's better than Xerxe. As much as we say you watch one play and you want the other in,

I think, you know, Hoyland is the better long-term bet here than Xerxe. But I also think that probably neither are the long-term answer. And that is something you've got to solve because...

None of the wingers are scoring either, really. I mean, the only player scoring is Ahmad and maybe Fernandes. And, you know, the lack of goals in this team is just absolutely chronic, isn't it? Like it's hard to know where the goals are coming from. But we'll leave it there for the first part. That's enough of the world's negativity. We'll be back after this break to look ahead to Newcastle and touch on a few of Amarim's post-match comments.

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Welcome back to the Manchester is Red podcast. An interesting post-match press conference with Ruben Amarim yesterday. I know you were flogging a dead horse in the mix zone, Stephen. Been there, done that many a time this season with Manchester United. Amarim entertaining a question on relegation, but shooting down a question on European football for

felt damning really of where Manchester United are at the moment. I think he said in the press conference, it's just about survival. And I'm not sure he meant it in the truest sense of it's about finishing 17th and staying up. I think it's more of a survival of the mind almost. And we're talking about United being a relegation zone. I mean, the four places above it, they have got an eight point gap. I don't think the gap to Europe, to seventh is probably much more than that.

But at the moment, the way they're playing, they've got to have eyes behind them rather than in front of them in a way, haven't they? And the fact that the manager is being asked about Europe and is saying no, no, no, no, no, and has been asked about relegation and is answering the question kind of tells you everything about where United are.

I know things have got very bad the last 10 years, but the fact that the manager or the head coach of Manchester United is being asked about relegation at a press conference says it all, doesn't it, unfortunately? Eight points above Leicester in the relegation zone. And as you said, it's not as much as a point gap to City, who are seventh with 28 points, with six points off City. But at the moment, you

European aspirations are just not on the agenda, rather. It's just simply moving into the top half and getting some results into the table. And you look at the bottom half of the table and United are around those teams' level. And when they're coming up against these teams, you don't have any confidence really in them. I mean, you know as Ty, I like it better. I said to you earlier today, I don't know why I've just not backed against United in these games. I mean, that would be the financially good advice, wouldn't it? To just back against United each week, really. Yeah.

They're struggling and you're starting to think where they're going to get results from. Newcastle on Monday, Liverpool at Anfield after that, Arsenal in the FA Cup. So it doesn't get much easier, unfortunately. Amram was asked about his preference to have taken over United in the summer, which obviously Omar Barada discussed with him when he was appointed from Sporting. And he said, look, I can't focus on that. I've just got to get on with the job. But he must be thinking about that. And you can see why he wanted to take over in the summer.

He has implemented his vision. He's obviously the new formation, but he's not had the bounce as expected because at the end of the day, as I've just said in the first part, the players are crucial to that system and he doesn't have the players for that system. He's inherited a

a struggling, low-confidence team that was assembled, a squad that was assembled by Eric Ten Hag for over 400 million. And you look at that team and you think, where has that money gone? It's unbelievable. We've been banging on about transfers, haven't we, for years and years. And it's just, it's happened again in the summer, really. Maybe one or two good signings that I think you got, it will be a decent signing. But yeah, just really disappointing again. And they've got to get results now. I said in my preview video, what we do before the game, that

I remember when they've cared about how United played against Wolves. They just needed a win on Boxing Day. And that was just really, really rubbish again. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, I've been saying for a couple of weeks now that I think there's a decent chance that United finishing the bottom half, the way things are going. You know, I still think bottom half is...

It's probably likely, certainly the limit of their ambitions, I think, is top half. I think we should forget about top seven at the moment, given the consistency, unless something clicks from somewhere. And the problem you've got is those Newcastle and Liverpool games. I mean, especially with Ugarte and Fernandes suspended now, you can make an argument for them losing both of them. We could be looking at a five, six point gap to the bottom four, bottom three by that stage of the season. And the problem is it's four defeats in five in the league now. And you watch them at the moment.

And I'm going to say they look lost in this system, which I think they did against Bournemouth. And I think they did yesterday. Yet you watch them second half against City and first half against Tottenham and a lot of the game against Tottenham in the League Cup. And you think, you know, I said at halftime to a couple of United staffers at Tottenham, it's the best I've seen them in that system in terms of ball retention and moving it around.

But then you play a different team and it's the worst you've seen them in that system. And it just kind of sums it up, doesn't it? That this system they are playing at the moment is just not, it's not working for them. And I'm not saying Amarim should change because if this is what he's wedded to, he shouldn't. I know Robbie Savage is banging the drum every game that he should change, along with suggesting he's the best manager in England rather than someone else. But, you know, I don't think there's any chance of Amarim changing.

but you watch them in a lot of games at the moment and they do look lost don't they they look unsure of of what they're trying to do this yeah completely i mean the system is bound to be questioned by pundits and by us by journalists and in the media when they are losing games there has been glimmers as you say the top of the game was probably the best example of that and then to go

to the debt he had into i think had 48 possession and city had 52 and the same number of shots same number of shots on target and diego dallas said to us in the mix zone well he doesn't want to go overboard but that does represent progress and it does from what we've seen in the last few years so he is getting his message across but he needs results so there is going to be a conversation about should he change the system to to suit the players that he's got but surely there's just such a recent case study

18 months ago two years ago when tenor came in and had that awful start and he compromised his values he compromised what he believed in to get results and he never really recovered from that and that was ultimately why he had to leave because

even two and a half years later during his tenure in those final months, he still hadn't really shifted to what we thought he was going to do with the kind of Ajax style of play and some of the football was so across there in the Netherlands. So Amram just has to stick by his guns. He has to persist. He said there was going to be a storm coming. It has.

I feel sorry for supporters because they're probably starting to give up on the season already. And that's just so frustrating when it's not even 2025 yet, is it? We're in December, a couple of days away from the new year. And if you're Manchester United, you shouldn't be writing off the season in December. But I think it's going to be a case of just some short-term pain for long-term gain, really. I think they're going to have to take...

some bad results this season and just accept it, accept where they are and kind of regather in the summer. And that's not to say there's still nothing to play for. There's still plenty to play for, of course. And they could beat Arsenal in the FA Cup and we could have another cup run and that would be a highlight. But it's pretty grim at the moment, isn't it? We don't like being negative. We like to be a bit positive and have good things to talk about. But that's just the truth of it. Yeah, it is the truth of it. And you're right about the short-term pain. The question is how...

How short term is it going to be? I think there's an argument it's going to become medium term pain if this season ends in a 10th, 11th place finish. And Amarim said a couple of times in his press conference yesterday about the lack of time on the training ground and how he can't change things without training ground time. All of this dates back to the summer, doesn't it? I think you'd struggle to find, and I know the support, a lot of supporters wanted to keep Ten Hag, and I get that given the cup final, given the bond they had with him.

I don't think you'd have found a single... I'm not saying we know better, but we may be a bit more detached than fans who've been at Wembley, who had grown that emotional connection with Ten Hag. I don't think you'd have found a single pundit or journalist, or very few, who said United should have kept Ten Hag. They shouldn't have kept Ten Hag. It was an eighth-place finish. The team was going nowhere. Not only did they keep him, they spent £200 million on signings and have now appointed a head coach who plays a totally different system than...

I mean, it's a wasted summer, but it's worse than that because it's

It's now led to a season where they might miss out on Europe altogether. This is a football club that have lost 350 million over the last five years, who have flirted incredibly closely with the Premier League PSR rules this summer. I know that should ease next year, now that the big loss is off the books from 2021-22, but it's still not a great position to be in. They're in the Europa League this year. They might be in no European competition whatsoever next year.

And, you know, we're saying the solution to a lot of these problems is to basically sign players to fit Amarim's system. But unless a beanstalk grows at Old Trafford in the summer, how are they going to do it? Because if they finish mid-table and aren't in Europe, they're not going to have the money to do it. Certainly not to sign players to compete in

at the highest level. And the problem you're going to have is that this short-term pain becomes longer because they finish 10th, say. They don't have the money to sign the players to get to top four. So they finish eighth the next season. And each season, you're just getting further and further and further and further away. And I think Amarim is the right man. I like what he did with Sporting. I like the way his teams play. I like the way he talks. I like the way he's conducted himself so far.

If this season ends without European football, I don't see how next season is going to improve massively beyond that, to be honest, because this just becomes a self-fulfilling issue, really, when you haven't got the money to change the team the way you need to. And it all dates back to last summer and just an absolutely bizarre, fathomless decision to keep Eric Ten Hag.

And we don't want to keep harping on back to it, but you can't analyse this season and what has gone wrong without looking back on the summer, can you? It's impossible. The elephant in the room. We stood in the Wembley press box after that game, after the FA Cup final, and we did an impromptu podcast together and we praised him to the high heavens. It was such a wonderful day. It was a really special performance. Tenard got his tactics right. But we both said on that podcast, he still has to go.

I understand fans wanted to give him a chance and so I've suggested that they would have had regrets on the back of that FA Cup win not to have given them that chance.

But objectively, they just had a torrid season. He'd had his chance. He'd had two years. Yeah, there was a ton of evidence there that said he needed to go. And that money that Ternog spent should have been given to Amram in the summer. And then we wouldn't be seeing, I don't think, what we're seeing now on the pitch because players would have been signed to that system. That's how Amram wanted to play. And he's having to put square pegs into round holes, isn't he? He's having to...

It's not just that, it's also the fact that you then give Amarim a full pre-season, a full tour, all that training ground time, and maybe some of these players look more comfortable in his system than they do now when they get in one proper training session a week. Completely. And the summer was the big mistake. We said it at the time, we'll say it again, it was the big mistake. And United are 14th and Ineos botched it in the summer. It was the biggest blot on the copybook. They've messed up since.

there's nothing really to cheer about united at the moment it's just so negative unfortunately they're charging 66 pounds they've scrapped concessions to watch that shower and the stadium's falling apart it's leaking i just i feel sorry for ambrim because like i said i agree i think he's the right man i think he will turn it around in time

But he's just got such a big job in his hands. It's so difficult. It's going to be so difficult because, as you've just said, there's not a war chest. Marcus Rashford might help that. We'll come on to that in a second, I imagine. But that's probably why they need to push that through. It's a matter of urgency now, apart from the fact that you've got a really senior, high-ranked player rotting away and not playing and featuring in the squads. But the need to sell players to sign players...

and you look at that squad who can they sell for any value who retains value in that squad it's unbelievable yeah i mean the only players of any value are the ones that don't want to sell essentially um which is part of the problem they've lost 22 of 56 premier league games since the start of last season which is

Just absolutely astonishing for Manchester United. And, you know, that's not a blip. That's a suggestion that this is a mediocre squad who are in their rightful position. And, you know, I don't think there's any chance they go down. I do think they'll finish higher than 14th. I think these ideas will slowly seep into this squad by the end of the season. I think they'll be looking better and playing better.

but i'm not sure they'll they'll get european football which they so badly need and certainly champions league football really i think the inios business model is built around champions league football and that's just about yeah it's just about say let's look at the pictures after that run of games obviously newcastle liverpool and arsenal but you talk about like you've got southampton at home next obviously brighton at home um a few easier games coming up but they've just been beating off wolves who are who were in the relegation zone

Yeah, so I was speaking to someone on the United staff at half-time against Bournemouth and both kind of said the issue with United at the moment, since last season really, is that you look at every game and there's not a single game you look at and think,

that's a banker, that's an easy game, that's an easy win. And you turn up to every United game at the moment and you're making, well, you're not even having to work hard to make an argument for why they might lose. And, you know, against Bournemouth, you turn up and you think, Bournemouth are a really good side, you know, I think we might get something here. You turn up against Wolves and you think, I mean, Wolves had a bad time under O'Neill, but they were still scoring a lot of goals. They've just got a new manager in and they're playing the same system, essentially, they were playing under O'Neill. So it's not like the Amarim situation where he's ripping it all up.

And every game, you know, you mentioned then Southampton at home. I mean, that's certainly one you'd look at. I think they've got to win that. But, you know, Southampton have got a new manager. It won't be a walkover, will it? No. It won't be disrespectful. Those games should be pretty straightforward. Exactly. And, you know, you need to get in a position where,

And this is where City were, but aren't anymore. You know, I turned up to the Etihad yesterday thinking this ain't going to be easy. As journalists, we want teams to be 3-0 up at halftime and the game done and dusted. And City used to be like that 10, 12 times a season, but aren't anymore. But you look at last night's game, Liverpool-Leicester, you know, even at 1-0, no one was making an argument that Leicester were going to win that game.

When United play, and I know United beat Leicester twice under Van Nistelrooy, but you're turning up for United pretty much every United game and you're fearing the worst or you're fearing, you're finding a reason without having to look too hard for it for why they might lose. And that's the problem, that there's none of these games that you look at for United and think they'll win that easily at the moment, just because they so rarely win.

I mean, they so rarely win games. They've won six of 18 in the league this season and they so rarely win games easily. So yeah, none of... It was interesting that you said about obviously Wolves kind of playing a similar system because Amram obviously mentioned that at his press conference when he says, look, Vito Pereira's coming. It's been a bit more, it's been a bit easier for him. I think that was kind of a message really. He said, look, I've come in here. I've had to change things. I'm trying to change the way they play and they're not used to it. I think that was him trying to kind of say that and it's a bit subliminal message really.

Yeah, totally, totally. There's been one triumph on this podcast. We got 30 minutes in before mentioning Marcus Rashford, which is a bonus. He's no longer the elephant in the room, is he, Rashford? No, no. It doesn't feel like a huge story anymore. It was a week and a half ago. No, I mean, I guess the huge, well, not the huge story, but I mean, the question here now is,

Has he played his final game for United? Is he done, do you think? Has he pulled on that shirt for the last time? I think he has. I mean, Amram keeps saying the door's open. To be fair to Amram, I think he handles these questions very well. We've praised him for how he speaks and how he handles the media. It comes across brilliantly. He must just want to kind of

tell us and tell the interviewers to piss off really I think when he keeps getting asked about Rashford because he keeps repeating himself but yeah in terms of has he played his last game for the club I think so I said on the podcast with Samuel last week early in the week sorry look you lose track your days at Christmas don't you it'll be tense yeah you do yeah I said I think there's an element of sadness about the way it ended over 400 games for the club academy graduate poster boy for a long time he's provided

countless special memories, goals, big performances. Don't get us wrong, it's not always been easy and there's been some really low points and disappointing moments along the way too. But to end in this fashion, if he has played his last game for the club and he hasn't had a farewell and his last appearance is coming off the bench against Victoria Pilsen, away against some European minnows in the Europa League, getting hauled off early and getting blanked by the manager, that is a bit sad. But on the other side, he's kind of brought it on himself, hasn't he? I believe. And I think

amram is handling the situation well he stamped his authority on the squad ewan samuel always mentioned the the bloke on the door walls and had a chat with him on the way out yeah and he mentioned he mentioned rashford yeah and he he mentioned fergie and he went look that's what he used to do he used to stamp his authority on the squad and let players know who boss and that's such a cliche but amram has done that

Rashford's been told. Gannaccio's been welcomed back into the fold. He's been named on the bench since he's come back into the squad, but he has done the right things and there is clearly a way back into the squad because Gannaccio's been given it, but Rashford hasn't. There's obviously a reason for that. Do you think he's played his last game as well, Ty? Would you agree? I think it's got to be looking that way now, hasn't it? It'd be a major surprise if he was in the squad against Newcastle and then the transfer window opens two days later. It's hard to envisage a scenario where he leaves

before the Liverpool game or early in the transfer window. But, I mean, that's got a bit of target now to ship him out. Could he go out on loan? Could he go out on loan with an option to buy? I was thinking about that the other day. You see that a lot, don't you? Yeah. I think that's probably more likely. I mean, where he goes is the question, but I think if he wants to go abroad, I think there's going to be options there, certainly on loan. You know, I think there's going to be options there. He's...

he's probably got more of a reputation abroad than he has in England at the moment and he's still you know English footballers are still a big name abroad there's something inside is that tells his Arsenal might have a sneaky little interest someone mentioned Arsenal to me yeah the other week when uh I can't remember what it was I'm sure it was when I was at City maybe it was maybe it was yesterday like I say all these days merged into one um but I don't know I just don't see Arteta going for

Rashford and Sterling in the same season. I mean, it would be a remarkable turn of events. But, I mean, maybe, maybe. I don't think Rashford, I mean, he's been poor. I don't think he's as over the hill as Sterling was or as Sterling is. No. I think he's still got more to give, whereas Sterling seems to have really regressed to a really low point.

But like I say, we keep talking about Rashford and we do think he's played his last game. But where he's going to go is the fascinating topic, really, isn't it? Because as you say, there's no real market. PSG were interested in the past, but they've moved away from that model. Real Madrid, no, won't happen to buy Munich. Barcelona are a skint. They've got no money. They can't register Dani Almo. It's going to be difficult for United to offload them.

Yeah, it really is. It really is. And he just, he needs to go somewhere where he looks like he's enjoying it because he's not looked like he's enjoying his football for a while now. And I've made the point countless times on numerous podcasts that,

this is just, this is sometimes how people are. And this is how Rashford is, that when things are going difficult for him, his body language kind of betrays his emotions. And I think that's annoyed the fans an awful lot over the years, especially when things have been difficult and something goes against him. And he kind of shows, his body language shows it. And I made the comparison the other day, which he's almost like the Raymond van Barnevelde of football or the other way around in that you watch van Barnevelde

or play darts and as soon as something goes wrong for him his body language is atrocious isn't it and like he must be aware that this is doing him no good that he's just like walking to the board pulling the darts out like why am i sure get ready to either tiger in the morning as well as he puts his clothes on well maybe maybe but that's you know it's a bit of an odd comparison but that is the comparison i get sometimes that like rashford when things go wrong for rashford he just looks like he's having no fun there whatsoever and

It does like his shoulders slump and things look hard for him. And I think, you know, I think he's probably a bit of an introverted character. And, you know, I've got sympathy for him in that sense, because it's very hard. If that's just his character on the pitch, it's very hard to change that. And it doesn't mean that he doesn't care. It doesn't mean that he's not trying. That's just who he is. So, you know, I've got some sympathy with him there, but it does look like he's not been enjoying it for long.

for a long time. And sticking with the darts, Ty, I mean, it's a weird analogy. Hopefully a few listeners do watch the darts. It is Christmas time. The Worlds are on. I mean, that's what separates the best players in darts from the players who are a bit mediocre. Look at Luke Humphries last year at the Worlds. It took him a long time to build

mental strength and when you watch him in a game now he comes over adversity and he's able to do that no matter what if the chips are down he's got that kind of mental resilience and he comes back and he doesn't he doesn't sulk he doesn't show it in his body language does he just keeps on going and it's the same in any top sport really isn't it's the same as football but you're right when the chips are down for Ashford his shoulders drop it doesn't look right um yeah and I think look we all we all know it's best for for both parties now for

separate ways and heading into divorce, really. Totally. And that mentality is such a big part of every elite sport. Like I said, I was at City yesterday. City played pretty well in that game, I thought, for 50, 55 minutes. As soon as Harling missed that penalty, you looked at those players and you thought, they don't think they're going to win anymore. Guardiola said that, didn't he? I think as well, recently. I asked Guardiola that question yesterday and he kind of said it's about the mentality but then said, oh, we did create chances. But

I didn't think they did. And it's kind of the position you get in, which Rashford has been in, and a lot of the United players have been in, when things start going wrong, when something else goes wrong in a game, like your best player missing a penalty, you kind of think, here we go again.

And it's very hard, not that it's human nature to think that. I mean, all the supporters at the Etihad were thinking that yesterday. You can tell from the stands. So it's hard for the players not to think that. And it's just because they're elite level sportsmen, you know, they've still got to train their brain to think that. And you always get that impression with Rashford that maybe he's, he finds that a little bit tougher and, you know, that's not a criticism. I think that's just his character. But I think he just, he clearly needs a fresh start. He needs to go somewhere where he's going to enjoy playing football and play with a smile on his face because he's

You don't see that often enough. Yeah, the chances are he's probably going to go somewhere else and he's going to look excellent and he'll probably find his best form again. But that won't mean it wasn't right for United to sell him because no matter if he does go on and do that, which I probably expect them to do, to be honest, depending where he goes. But yeah, United are right to get rid of him. Well, when they do, I'm saying not if they do now.

Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. And just looking ahead to Newcastle very quickly then, I think it's fair to say there'll be no Rashford. There's going to be no Garty and Fernandes either.

I think regular listeners of the podcast will know where your allegiances lie, Stephen. But what do you make of this game? You were winding me up before. I've been saying for a while, Eddie Howes, I'll borrow time there. But suddenly Newcastle are winning some games and looking good again at the worst possible time for United. I mean, I'm looking at that game and I'm finding it very hard to make a case for Manchester United winning that match, especially the form Isaac is in. It's at Old Trafford.

So, you know, they've got the home advantage, but it almost feels like the surprise result here is going to be a United win at the moment, the way things are going. It just shows you how bad things are that United fans are looking at that game and fearing the worst. Newcastle have not had a very good record or Old Trafford ever, really. There's been obviously one or two results more in recent times, but the fact that they're looking into that game or looking ahead to that game and fearing the worst is it all. It was obviously the 3-0 result.

in the League Cup last season when Newcastle had the third string out. It wasn't even the second string and they won quite comfortably. But the majority of the games at St James' Park are where Newcastle have had the edge because...

I seem to think when United visits St James' Park, there is kind of the crowd get up for it. The players don't have the mentality to deal with a raucous atmosphere. And we've seen that over the last couple of years. They've struggled there. It should be a little bit different at Old Trafford. They'll have obviously that advantage. And they won 3-2 at Old Trafford last season. It was a weird game that wasn't it? Because Newcastle could have won that. There was chances for both sides. And it was a really pivotal moment for both clubs as well in the league table.

it's you'd feel the worst for United I think just looking at their last three results looking at how the way they performed Newcastle will fancy this they'll be bang up for this and without Ugarte without Fernandes you imagine it's probably going to be Casemiro in Manu in midfield you'd think and Ram has to make changes I think he has to stop with Dalot and Masrari in the wing back roles as I said earlier I think you've got to put Ahmad there and

Or maybe try Anthony. We discussed him briefly, didn't we, when we were chatting before the game, before the podcast, sorry. And as I said, Anthony actually did quite well coming on against Wolves. And he's looked all right coming off the bench, credit to him, in the last few weeks. He's had a little bit about him. So there could be a case to start Anthony. And yeah, just another game where you think, oh, United's going to get a result. They're going to struggle. It's going to be tough. And then obviously it's Liverpool and Arsenal, as we've said after that. It doesn't get much easier.

No, it really doesn't. It's a tough run of fixtures for a team that looks to be in a bad place at the moment. That's all for today.

Game on Monday, so we'll be back on Tuesday on New Year's Eve, I think. Hopefully we can bring you some positivity on New Year's Eve. We do not want to be sat here on New Year's Eve dissecting another United Premier League defeat. But thanks for listening today. Please leave us a like, leave us a review if you've enjoyed it. Remember to subscribe to get the latest episodes in your feed and we'll be back to speak to you on Tuesday. Bye for now.