cover of episode #43 PL in the Industry and Summer Schools - Patrick and Eric

#43 PL in the Industry and Summer Schools - Patrick and Eric

2024/9/13
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Type Theory Forall

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Eric Bond
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Patrick Lafontaine
P
Pedro Abreu
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@Eric Bond : Eric 的研究主要集中在逐渐类型语言的多态性及其指称语义上,特别是动态状态单子的范畴语义。他认为在工业界工作虽然薪资待遇优厚,但研究方向受限,而学术界则拥有更大的自由度去探索更深层次的理论问题,例如范畴论和类型论。他分享了自己从工业界回到学术界的经历,并推荐了 NSF CS Grad for US Fellowship 项目,该项目为从工业界回归学术界的学生提供资金和指导。他还谈到了在小型函数式编程咨询公司和 Two6 Technologies 的工作经验,以及他在这些公司中从事 PL 验证相关研究的经历。 @Patrick Lafontaine : Patrick 的研究主要集中在程序合成上,他使用更复杂的类型(如细化类型和覆盖类型)来指导程序合成。他喜欢 Rust 胜过 OCaml,并分享了他使用 Rust 开发 GPU 设备 DSL 的经验。他认为 Rust 有助于捕捉 bug 并编写更惯用的代码。他还讨论了他在 AWS 实习期间的经历,他将自己的想法应用于异常检测问题。他认为亚马逊在形式化方法方面投入巨大,并将其作为一种有价值的工具出售给客户。他观察到工业界的研究比学术界的研究更加结构化,目标也更加具体。他还分享了他对俄勒冈编程语言暑期学校的看法,认为这是一个学习编程语言及其实现的宝贵资源。 @Pedro Abreu : Pedro 作为主持人,引导 Eric 和 Patrick 分享了他们在学术界和工业界的工作经验,并就编程语言、类型系统和形式化方法的职业前景进行了讨论。他认为,人工智能的兴起为该领域创造了大量需求,但同时也存在一些挑战,例如资金投入不足等。他鼓励听众积极参与暑期学校和研讨会,拓展人脉,并了解该领域的最新发展。 Eric Bond: 在工业界,特别是像Two6 Technologies这样的公司,他参与了DARPA资助的PL验证项目,这让他有机会接触到更贴近学术界的研究,并发表了一些论文。然而,他最终还是选择回到学术界,因为他渴望深入研究范畴论和类型论,追求学术自由。他认为工业界的研究目标更明确,而学术界的研究则更开放。 Patrick Lafontaine: Patrick在AWS实习期间,他参与了异常检测项目,并有机会将自己关于更复杂类型系统和抽象解释的想法应用于实际问题。他观察到亚马逊在形式化方法方面投入巨大,并认为这为该领域创造了更多机会。他认为,在工业界,发表论文并非首要目标,交付价值才是。但他同时指出,一些工业界的研究成果也会以论文的形式发表,这有助于促进学术界和工业界的交流与合作。他还分享了他在俄勒冈编程语言暑期学校的经历,认为这是一个宝贵的学习和交流机会。 Pedro Abreu: Pedro 作为主持人,他总结了本期节目的主要内容,并鼓励听众积极参与各种学术活动,例如暑期学校和研讨会,并与业内人士建立联系。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

What is Eric Bond's current research focus at the University of Michigan?

Eric Bond is working on extending his advisor Max New's thesis on gradual typing, specifically focusing on polymorphism for gradually typed languages and developing denotational semantics for these models.

What is Patrick Lafontaine's research focus under his advisor Benjamin Delaware?

Patrick Lafontaine is leading his advisor's program synthesis effort, focusing on complex types like refinement types and coverage types. He uses these types to guide synthesis and works predominantly in OCaml, with some synthesizers written in Rust.

What challenges does Eric Bond face in his research on denotational semantics for gradual typing?

Eric Bond is exploring models of state, particularly the dynamic state monad, which supports allocating new cells and setting/getting values. The categorical semantics of dynamic state are more complex than the regular state monad due to the need to account for varying heap configurations and address availability.

What motivated Eric Bond to return to academia after working in industry?

Eric Bond returned to academia to dive deeper into categorical logic and type theory, seeking the academic freedom to explore abstract research. He felt that industry work, while rewarding, was more constrained by deliverables and less focused on theoretical exploration.

What is the NSF CS Grad for US fellowship program, and how did it help Eric Bond?

The NSF CS Grad for US fellowship program supports non-traditional students, particularly those returning from industry to academia. Eric Bond received this fellowship, which provided three years of funding, mentorship, and a community of individuals transitioning back into academia.

What was Patrick Lafontaine's experience during his internship at AWS?

Patrick Lafontaine interned at AWS in the automated reasoning team, where he worked on anomaly detection using complex type systems and abstract interpretation. He appreciated the flexibility to explore ideas and the opportunity to work on impactful problems in a large-scale industry setting.

How does Amazon's investment in formal methods compare to traditional industries?

Amazon heavily invests in formal methods, particularly through its automated reasoning group, to ensure software correctness and reliability. This is a shift from traditional industries like defense and aerospace, where formal methods have historically been more prevalent.

What is the Oregon PL Summer School, and why is it valuable?

The Oregon PL Summer School is a resource for learning about programming languages, featuring world-class researchers and lectures on advanced topics. It is valuable for both students and industry professionals looking to gain insights into academic research and theoretical aspects of PL.

What are the career prospects in programming languages and formal methods?

Career prospects in programming languages and formal methods are strong, with opportunities in both academia and industry. Companies like Amazon are heavily investing in formal methods, and there is a growing demand for expertise in areas like security, verification, and type systems.

Chapters
Eric, a PhD student under Max New, is working on polymorphism for gradually typed languages, focusing on denotational semantics. Patrick, also a PhD student, is working on program synthesis using refinement types and coverage types, primarily with OCaml.
  • Eric's research extends Max New's work on gradual typing, focusing on polymorphism and denotational semantics.
  • Patrick's research involves program synthesis using refinement types and coverage types in OCaml, with some work in Rust.
  • Both discuss their preferences for Rust and OCaml, highlighting the advantages and disadvantages of each.

Shownotes Transcript

In this episode Eric Bond and Patrick Lafontaine joins us to talk about the life in industry vs the life in academia. Eric is a PhD student at Michigan University under Max New, he works with some pretty cool esoteric cubical agda stuff. Before starting his PhD he has spent some time at the consultancy companies Two Six Technologies and 47 Degrees doing some cool functional programming and formal methods. Before that we were pals doing an internship at Galois, and even before that he finished his masters with Benjamin Delaware at Purdue, Patrick’s current advisor. Patrick has just returned from his internship at AWS in the automated reasoning team. So in this episode we talk about their research, their academic and industry experiences, how’s the industry looking like for opportunities in PL and all that.

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