cover of episode Node.js and the Javascript Ecosystem with Gil Tayar

Node.js and the Javascript Ecosystem with Gil Tayar

2024/11/28
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Gil Tayar: 本次访谈主要围绕Node.js生态系统,模块化和Monorepo展开。他分享了自己在软件开发领域的35年经验,以及在Microsoft, Wix等公司的工作经历。他强调了模块化在软件开发中的重要性,并详细阐述了其在Node.js项目中的实践经验,包括如何构建独立的包,如何管理大型Monorepo项目,以及如何处理ESM和CommonJS模块系统之间的兼容性问题。他还分享了自己对前端开发中非标准import语句的看法,以及对Node.js加载器的理解和应用。 Josh Goldberg: 作为访谈的主持人,Josh Goldberg与Gil Tayar就Node.js生态系统,模块化,Monorepo,ESM和CommonJS模块系统,以及前端开发中非标准import语句等话题进行了深入探讨。他引导Gil Tayar分享了其在这些领域中的经验和观点,并就一些技术细节和问题进行了提问和讨论。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

How did Gil Tayar get into software development?

Gil started programming at the age of 13 with a ZX81, moving on to Turbo Pascal and eventually joining the army as a software engineer, where he spent six years as an instructor. He then transitioned into industry roles at companies like Wix and Microsoft.

Why does Gil Tayar enjoy mentoring and teaching others?

Gil enjoys mentoring because he finds it fulfilling to help people understand complex concepts in a structured and logical way. He believes in starting with context and motivation before diving into the details, which helps learners grasp the material more effectively.

What is Gil Tayar's approach to explaining complex programming concepts like promises?

Gil's approach involves breaking down the problem step by step, starting with the basics and gradually building up to more complex ideas. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the context and motivation behind each concept before diving into the technical details.

Why does Gil Tayar prefer not to transpile code in Node.js?

Gil dislikes transpilation because it adds complexity to the development process, turning it into a pipeline. He prefers to avoid transpilation and instead uses JSDoc typings for type checking, which works well in most cases.

What is Gil Tayar's opinion on monorepos versus polyrepos?

Gil prefers polyrepos because each package can have its own independent configuration, making it easier to reason about and modify. In contrast, shared configurations in monorepos can become overly complex and difficult to manage, especially at scale.

How does Gil Tayar handle dependency updates in a polyrepo setup?

Gil suggests updating dependencies only when developers modify a package, using a script to automate the process. This approach ensures that dependencies are kept up-to-date without the need for a shared configuration across all packages.

What is Gil Tayar's view on the Node.js ecosystem and NPM?

Gil considers the Node.js ecosystem unparalleled in terms of productivity and the scale of NPM, which has enabled developers to iterate and share code at an unprecedented level. While it has its problems, NPM remains an amazing success story.

Why does Gil Tayar advocate for ESM (ECMAScript Modules) in Node.js?

Gil believes ESM is crucial for the future of the Node.js ecosystem because it standardizes module systems, reducing the mess created by the coexistence of ESM and CommonJS. He sees ESM as a necessary evolution to simplify the ecosystem and improve developer experience.

What are the challenges of requiring ESM modules in CommonJS?

Requiring ESM modules in CommonJS can lead to issues with top-level await, as CommonJS cannot handle async imports. Additionally, allowing CommonJS to require ESM could delay the adoption of ESM across the ecosystem, which Gil sees as a negative.

What are some use cases for Node.js loaders?

Node.js loaders can be used for transpilation (e.g., TS-node), mocking modules in tests, and handling different protocols like HTTP or loading from zip files. They provide a standardized way to intercept and modify module loading behavior.

Chapters
Gil Tayar's journey into software development started at age 13 with a ZX81, progressing through Turbo Pascal on an Apple II and a software engineering course in the army. He recounts his experiences working at various companies like Wix and CloudShare, and his current role as a software engineer at Microsoft. He highlights his passion for staying updated with industry trends and his enjoyment of mentoring.
  • Started coding at age 13 with a ZX81
  • Army software engineering course and six years as an instructor
  • Worked at Wix, CloudShare, and currently at Microsoft
  • Enjoys mentoring junior developers

Shownotes Transcript

Gil Tayar) is a Principal Software Engineer at Microsoft), developer advocate, and conference speaker. Gil’s contributions to the Node.js ecosystem include adding support for ECMAScript Modules in Node.js to Mocha and TestDouble. He joins the show to talk about his history in software engineering, monorepos vs polyrepos, the state of JavaScript, and more.

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Josh Goldberg is an independent full time open source developer in the TypeScript ecosystem. He works on projects that help developers write better TypeScript more easily, most notably on typescript-eslint: the tooling that enables ESLint and Prettier to run on TypeScript code. Josh regularly contributes to open source projects in the ecosystem such as ESLint and TypeScript. Josh is a Microsoft MVP for developer technologies and the author of the acclaimed Learning TypeScript) (O’Reilly), a cherished resource for any developer seeking to learn TypeScript without any prior experience outside of JavaScript. Josh regularly presents talks and workshops at bootcamps, conferences, and meetups to share knowledge on TypeScript, static analysis, open source, and general frontend and web development.

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