Title race, Chelsea’s belief, Liverpool’s contracts and Amorim’s system
01:03:31 Share

We all want to enjoy food that tastes great and is sourced responsibly. But it's not always easy to know where your favourite foods come from. McDonald's works with more than 23,000 British and Irish farmers to source quality ingredients.

Sophie Bambridge grows quality potatoes for McDonald's Iconic Fries in Norfolk. I think McDonald's are one of the biggest supporters of British farming. They have a real commitment to British potatoes. The Sustainable Fries Fund is a collaborative investment by McCain and McDonald's.

to help us understand and try different growing techniques for potatoes so that we can understand what we can do to help reduce our impact on the environment but still produce a good quality potato. It helps enable us to try things without having the risk and cost of potentially it going wrong. The support from McCain and McDonald's is really useful to us. Change a little, change a lot. Find out more about McDonald's Plan for Change on the McDonald's website.

Hello and welcome to the Game Football Podcast from The Times. Happy New Year to everyone, especially Arsenal and Mikel Arteta, who picked up a big win at Brentford to keep the title race alive and delight anyone on a football podcast keen for big issues to talk about for the rest of the season.

On today's show, we'll discuss that victory, Chelsea's mini blip and Wayne Rooney's departure from Plymouth. We'll also talk about the big game at the weekend as Liverpool host Manchester United and talk about Trent Alexander-Arnold's future. I'm Tom Clarke and joining me today, we have the Chief Correspondent for The Times and Sunday Times, Martin Samuel. The former footballer turned columnist, Tony Cascarino and the former defender turned journalist, Gregor Robertson is here as usual. Gents, Happy New Year.

Happy New Year. Happy New Year, Tom. That was all nice, in unison. Very good. We're all glad to be back. Glad to be back in the studio. None of this remote stuff anymore, Gregor. You're out the loft. Out the loft. Happy days, good start to the year. Absolutely lovely stuff. I think that's the most football generic answer you've ever given. That sounded like you were after a game and I was on Northampton fan TV and I was asking you a question. That was the Northampton fan TV? Yeah, yeah.

I think I found you on YouTube once didn't I? Good start. Good start. Three points. Crack on. Anyway, speaking of crack on. We go again. We go again. We certainly do go again. Arsenal picked up a big win as I mentioned in that intro against Brentford. 3-1. Gregor, this is a big victory for them isn't it? Because

Brentford very difficult team to play against at times and certainly for Arsenal in the past at home particularly and without some key players particularly Bukayo Saka of course a lot of made of his injury what did you make of this game and Arsenal's performance

I think I thought Brentford were really good as well for the first half an hour basically until moments before the equaliser yeah well Thomas Frank was saying how brilliant they were in the first half and stuff there was some truth to that I think their game plan was clear they really hardly engaged Arsenal until they got to kind of 25 yards from goal so they were like saying to them come on break us down but then in those in the kind of turnovers they were brave and they started to

you know they got they were dangerous on the counter and then when higher up the pitch as well they did kind of there were some sort of really good turnovers and that created chances that's where they got their goal from as well but then that kind of backfired when Mbwemo tried to do a bit too much on the edge of his own box and Arsenal just in the five minutes before the equalizer they found a bit more bite and they started to kind of do what Brentford were doing to them and they really started pressing them high and

So like From that point of view Going behind Against Brentford I think they only lost One game before At home this season They found something Arsenal found something And responded well And then obviously Set pieces Came into play again To give them the Give them the lead And the start of the second half They were really Really sharp And As I say They were like Snappy Really snappy At the start of the second half In their face And they were doing What Brentford really Tried to do to them And the

in the opening half an hour. Yeah, ninth goal from a corner for Arsenal this season, five of their last 12 in total. I want to go to the other guys on Arsenal in just a second, but just on Brentford, you mentioned how well they're playing, but only one win in six. Any kind of concerns going in? They're playing well at home. They had been and then they obviously lost the game before that. Is this just the kind of little stuttering period that you have when perhaps you're a team in the bottom half, you know, in the bottom half, mid-table, bottom half of the table, nothing to worry about for Brentford fans?

I don't think they're going to get dragged into a relegation battle but this is what it's always going to be like for Brentford really they're always punching above their weight as I say their season had been quite strange already before this and that their home form was absolutely outstanding

I think better than everyone's except Liverpool still and their away from was horrendous so that wasn't going to continue forever it's still a really hard place to go and we saw that and as I say in the first half opening half an hour

I think they'll still be fine I don't think they're going to get dragged into a relegation battle Yeah Tony a good performance from Ethan Wanyeri the 17 year old on the wing the third youngest player ever to start a Premier League game for Arsenal after Cesc Fabregas and Theo Walcott another goal as well for Gabriel Jesus I thought very much a poacher's finish

a kind of goal that we talked about in recent weeks shows that there's a guy there with a bit of confidence all of a sudden he's looking to get on the end of things which is important for Arsenal when they're missing players like Saka yeah well they had no Saka and Havertz obviously before the game was illness and

And that gives Gabriel Jesus another chance to show what he can do. And it was a big... I was at both the Arsenal games, back-to-back against Palace. And the relief that he got scoring the first, and then it just felt like the buses scenario. Well, one by one, it's come along. And I thought he'd done okay last night. A typical goal, what you said, Pocha. Going back to my piece on the column of goalkeepers, palming them out straight to an attacker. You know, and...

That really struck me how often that's happened this year. Because Flecken has done what many keepers have done. And they practice this a lot in the week. You know, goalkeepers, where they palm the ball out to. Yeah, it happened in the Leicester City game as well, didn't it? Yeah, it's happened a few times where goalkeepers have palmed it out. He's palmed it straight to the area that gives Gabriel Reyes a diving header, really, to get the equaliser. But when Yeri was good in a game that is not...

I mean, he'll get in the ball often enough. He'll cross enough in the game because he likes to do that. His relationship didn't quite look like it is with Odegaard and Saka. But that's a special, unique scenario. The lad's 17. So, obviously, I thought Odegaard was quite poor last night considering how good he is as a player.

He found it hard to make an impact in the game. That was partly because of what Gregor was talking about with Brentford. But yeah, he's got to be really pleased he's come through a game. They've won. He's played his part. It's a learning curve. He's 17. You're not a made player then. You might have these brilliant moments and everyone then, as we all do, will say this is the great star. How many of them have fallen by the wayside? But what he'd done, he looked like he'd done a really good shift and a job for the team last night.

Yeah, Martin, coming back to that point that I made at the top of the show about the title race in general, and I've had a lot of games over the Christmas period, and one of the teams, part of the reason for my slightly jokey intro about Arsenal keeping the title race alive is Chelsea and their mini blip, but...

How are you looking at the title race overall and then maybe bring in some of the points about either Arsenal or Chelsea and we'll take it from there? I think Liverpool should win it from the position that they're in. They're showing no sign of the weakness that would suggest that they can't close this out. I thought it was a fabulous result for Arsenal last night.

Because if you look at Liverpool's front line, once you take Saka out of Arsenal, and you look at Liverpool's front line, most of their second string would get a place in Arsenal's team. Jota would be Arsenal's centre forward. Ahead of Havertz, do you think? Yeah. Tony, would you agree with that? I did the numbers of it last week. He's a better finisher. Far more prolific than Havertz. Far more prolific than Havertz. I mean, if you look at his minutes...

and his goals and assists compared to Havertz this season he's off the dog Jota would be at Liverpool's if he hadn't had his injury yeah quite possibly he started the season at Liverpool's too he did he started the very first game and then he got injured didn't he no he got injured at Brentford last year that really dented Liverpool's title that's where he literally missed the end of the season for Liverpool at Brentford

But in his absence, Diaz and Gakpo have kicked on. And so he can't get back in the team at the moment. But even a guy like Darwin Nunes, who is far from a prolific striker and we all know the problems and how many chances he needs to score or whatever. But he still does a fantastic job for the team in terms of stretching the play, in terms of his physicality and everything. And, you know, Arsenal haven't got that

in their forward line the way that Liverpool have and they haven't got that depth in their forward line so this is a big result because how they manage without Saka was going to be key and their first result was 1-0 at home to Ipswich which people will say oh that's quite unconvincing so this is a convincing result you know to win at a team that are not getting beat at home this season and to win convincingly 3-1 and

is really good for them. And Chelsea is this...

It's his self-fulfilling prophecy. I haven't understood it. I haven't understood Moresco's attitude all season in terms of talking his team down, talking them out of it. And now he turns around and everyone goes, oh, he's so wise, he's so clever that he saw this coming. You think, well, that's marvellous, isn't it? Because if you did do anything, you've beaten all of the odds, you've achieved beyond your want. And if it all goes wrong, well, it was only what was going to happen anyway. And you think...

spent a billion quid all the world over you know we all thought it was going to be a mishmash but it was two Saturdays ago two and a bit Saturdays ago or Sundays ago that if they win at Everton they go top of the league yeah for a couple of hours before over yeah but they go top of the league suddenly they're in a battle to finish top four again and

and everyone thinks he's a genius and I'm thinking well this is he's worked this one absolutely magnificently and he you know he's gone from being potential title contenders to in a battle with Nottingham Forest to see if they can come top four and somehow this proves what a great manager he is and what a clever man sorry Mark do you think that he would be saying the same thing behind closed doors to his players

Well, this is what I was going to ask. I was going to ask both of you because we briefly touched on this on Monday, didn't we, with Alison making a similar point to Martin. Arsene Wenger. It was Arsene Wenger who had a go at Brendan Rodgers, funnily enough, about this when Brendan Rodgers in 2014 kept talking Liverpool down and saying they weren't in. And Arsene's point was that all of these guys...

are so scared of being thought of as a failure that they constantly talk their team down, constantly talk it down so that no one expects anything of them. And I think it's a valid point. In answer to your question, who can say? It doesn't...

I think it would be quite hard to keep going on television and saying, we've got no chance, and we're not ready, and we're too young, and we're this and that. And then going into the dressing room and saying, I'll dig in all of that. We're great, we're this, we're that. Well, Tony, I was going to ask you and Gregor, but like... But you guys have been in dressing rooms. If you, as Martin says, if you're hearing your manager say one thing, and it's one thing to play it down once or twice, but as Martin and Alison on Monday said...

This has been a consistent theme all the way through those great results for Chelsea-Morescouz. No, we're not ready. No, we're not ready. No, we're not ready. Even if he is then saying to you, no, we can do this, guys. Does that affect you as a player at all? Well, I think individual sport, you can probably get...

get around that sort of, you know, that scenario where Tiger Woods was completely criticised by his dad as a very young man playing golf or was always questioning to be better. But then your team sport and you've got many different personalities in the dressing room. That's different. When he spoke about Madawake, I remember thinking, well, Madawake has gone from a player who weren't in the team. He's got an England squad.

he's played really well and done really well for Chelsea scored a hat trick for Chelsea and then he's being told he's not doing good enough in training and he may well not be but by the way there's quite a lot of good players who've won a hell of a lot in their career who Eden Hazard you could certainly say he was questioned over his training for years and others I played with Paul McGraw he was one of the best players I ever played with his training was ridiculously bad

I mean, any manager in the modern game wouldn't even entertain putting him on the pitch in training. But he was always the best player on a Saturday. That's why I always find that talk a bit strange. And some players take it to heart. You know, like, really? Because you could do... So if he's okay doing that, imagine if a player then come out and went, do you know what? Poor manager got it wrong. Thought his decisions were a bit bizarre, really. I think he should have played a 3-4, you know, 3-5-2 today. You know, imagine a player doing that. The manager would go...

I can't say the word. He'd lose it, OK? He'd lose it. Because it'd be, how dare you speak about what I'm doing? And that's what he's ultimately doing to his players. Behind closed doors, you can say a lot. And Gregor would say this, wouldn't you, Gregor? When you're in a locked dressing room and players aren't pulling their weight, a manager can say what he wants and most players will take it on the chin if they're not playing well. But when you go in front of people and sit there...

You're the mother and father of Madawake and others that he might pull. You might think, hold it a minute. He's still a young lad. The thing is, it worked. We're all saying this is working really well. We're all saying he's actually quite bold and he spoke...

He spoke in not entirely flat round terms about Rhys James as well. There's been several. He's been quite punchy, let's be honest. Very punchy, yeah. Probably more punchy than we thought. We thought he was going to be a bit of a yes man getting the job. You're the coach, you just stick to the coaching, mate. He's not been that by any stretch of the imagination. I kind of agree. He could be saying something different behind closed doors, but it wouldn't work forever. It wouldn't work for too long because...

The landscape's different now. Players are on social media, players see Sky Sports News 24-7. They know what he's saying in public too. And they know what he's saying about them individually. They know what he's saying about them as a team. So it wouldn't work for long. Martin's right, it wouldn't work for long. But then they are in a strange position. We still think, oh, this is Chelsea. But they are a group of young guys, yes, assembled at ridiculous cost.

but who no one gave any hope to this season in this stretch so it's more my mind I just started thinking about Leicester when Ranieri for when was it till like April he was saying he was laughing it off no chance we all were we're all there going with him yeah you're right mate I mean it's never going to work this year yeah but I still think Chelsea were like

No chance. Even when everyone was getting excited. Here we go. I was listening to this going, come on guys. Yeah, they've won a few games in a row. They're not title challengers. He's right. Fundamentally, he's right. But what is his strategy now? Does he start talking them down as a top four team? If that was the shrewd move when he was talking them down as title contenders, is it shrewd to talk them down

as top four contenders and then they're seventh and then you go oh we've got no chance of making the conference league and you just keep talking them down until you end up where Manchester United are and then you go oh what a smart move that was it's a bit of survival and then suddenly you're talking about relegation I saw a piece it was Chris Wood

and he said about not even for his fans he said yeah great let them dream and you think that's all you need to say you don't need to say we're going to win the league Nuno says that too Nuno says we should all enjoy this together yeah we should enjoy this together win the league he doesn't have to come out and say we're going to win the league all he's got to do is say well I don't know if we're a young team I don't know if we're good enough to win the league but I tell you what we're going to give it a go we'll give it a go that's all you want to hear we'll give it a go there could be another scenario which could be

the players could you know between them getting i think we're proving wrong you know what i mean yeah i i give you a perfect example that proves him right though so i remember this moment and being in the night before the quarterfinal of a world cup jack chong called a meeting and sat down and we all sat there and he just turned around and said look um enjoy tonight you have a few beers um

That's a good start. You're not to know. You're playing until 8 o'clock tomorrow night. Okay? He said, you're playing in Rome, their backyard, against Italy, and the ref won't give you a thing and you'll be going home the next day. Right? And afterwards, he said I was right. Okay.

But we all went out with the attitude against Italy. We can beat them. What, because he kind of just... But he had a big smile on his face as he sort of said it. He didn't say it like he was undermining, because he didn't undermine us at all. That's taking the pressure off you, isn't it? And he did let us have a few beers, and we had a great night, and we all slept in, and we all got up and had a walk, and we slept the afternoon, and I thought it was our best performance in World Cup 90. Right, OK? And I remember that as the way he spoke was...

Okay, it's a one-off game. It's a quarterfinal of a World Cup. That's not like a Premier League game. But sometimes you get the rebellion from the players, and not in a bad way, but go, we're proving them wrong. He's criticising the players. Enzo Moresconi should have just thrown a few beers and a few gin and tonics. Well, no. I just didn't like some of the...

you know, just the jargon that was coming out, I thought it was a bit, come on. You know, like, you're new to this, you've not been at the club a long time, and there's just the line in the sand. There are many players who don't do, day by day, second by second, everything perfect in their life. And everyone talks about small margins, I get. But there are some players who don't need to have them small margins in their career.

That's why I mentioned someone like Hazard, Diego Costa. I could name a few. Drogba. Drogba wasn't the perfect pro by any stretch of the imagination. Okay? He used to fly at a big and narrow airport.

where I live close to on his private jet to go back to France on the odd day off. I didn't know you were a plane spotter. Yeah, no. You know what's bumping to me. They didn't live the perfect life, but what they did on the football field was as best they could give. And I think that means a lot more than just the odd day training where you might have switched off. If they're doing it on a daily basis, then the manager's got a real point. Yeah.

Martin bringing in not only Chelsea but some of the another team that you talked about there Nottingham Forest and then also Newcastle and Manchester City that's the kind of third to fifth third to sixth sorry placings in the table at the minute heading into the new year and as you say Chelsea have kind of made it a top four contention chat now after not winning those games how are you looking at those teams heading into the new year? Well Newcastle are in fantastic form I mean you can't be lucky enough to play Manchester United every week but they are in fantastic form and

I saw the City game I saw the game that City won which never used to be a City flying phrase but it is now and again Leicester you know could have nicked that it wasn't the most convincing performance so yeah I mean Forest I love Forest I love what they did

in investing in the team I think it's massively significant that the team that got done for PSR is now in contention for a Champions League spot I think that's hugely significant it shows that

you know, the investment is crucial to a club and it doesn't actually necessarily put a club in jeopardy and, and, and all of this. And if you look at the fact that the bottom three are the same three that came up last year, um,

the bottom three that went down are the same three that came up last year. You can see the effects that this is having. There's this restriction on ambition and Nottingham Forest bucked that trend. Nottingham Forest went out and tried to have a go to stay in the division and try and actually do something. And they're doing something. And I think that's absolutely wonderful. I think it's fantastic. If I had a wish for 2025, it's that Nottingham Forest stay top four.

win the league actually but they're never going to win the league but not even for us to stay top four.

So, yeah, that's fantastic. The other point I'd make about Chelsea, which I was just thinking there, is there's stories now coming about, oh, they might find it hard to sell some of the players that are surplus to requirement. Well, if you've been talking your team down all season and these are the guys that can't get in the team that you've been talking down, it's not really going to be the biggest surprise that no-one is actually storming into your office saying, here's...

30 million quid I want that bloke that can't get in this team that you keep saying is useless I agree with that but there are also bigger financial structural issues that make it clear why Chelsea will struggle to Premier League TV rights are double that of the next biggest league in Europe so like

the financial superpower so that was always one of the flaws in their plan for me getting people off the books was the fact you think yeah you can hoover up all the best talent in Europe or what you think is the best talent in Europe but there's a strong likelihood you'll make a big loss on some of them yeah I'm totally with you on the Forrest point too but I still think they like Chelsea and

the waste has been extraordinary they could have spent less money or the same money on slightly less to be within financial rules on like half as many players and been as successful I take that totally but they have been ambitious if you're a Forest fan it's a ride isn't it and the club isn't in jeopardy I don't want to ride where the club's in jeopardy I can just add on one thing not on the financial side but if you look at their team

It suffered very few injuries. OK, Murillo got injured. Forest, yeah. Also, you know European football. Think about Fulham, think about Bournemouth, and think about Forest.

All them clubs have not had European football and it is an advantage to go in and plan and train all week. And Newcastle now as well. Well, Newcastle as well. If you want to throw Newcastle in there. There's four teams that are absolutely benefiting from less injuries. I know Newcastle have had a good few but they got a good few the year before in the Champions League, didn't they? They had a huge amount of injuries.

No European football is beneficial to your campaign. And also, the team is so well structured by a manager that was seen or deemed not good enough for Spurs. Okay? It was given another chance. You can credit Forrest for that as well, seeing a guy that they think can move the club forward.

It's just all worked perfectly well. And with players that were deemed not good enough. Ilanga, not good enough at Man United. Hudson-Odoi, not good enough at Chelsea. Chris Wood was handed out at Newcastle, really. He got a lot sick at Newcastle when he was a player, even though he'd done well for them.

No, Morgan Gibbs-White, okay, he wasn't hounded out of Wolves, but again, none of the big clubs going for him. These are all the transfers that Nottingham Forest have done for as much business as they had. That's without even looking at the defence. The three clubs that Tony referenced there, we have to remember we're in the championship within the last three years. So the idea of them having European football, the idea that they're contending to be

to have European football is extraordinary and that will be one of the stories I hope of the first half of 2025. Yeah, absolutely. We're talking about Newcastle being in great form. They are in the big game on Saturday away at Tottenham. Tony, I wanted to talk about that because this is another game, Tottenham against Wolves, that 2-2 draw, one of the games that we only briefly mentioned on Monday's show but you were there. I just wanted to talk about a few bits you mentioned in your column from that game, one that I thought was particularly interesting about Tottenham Hotspur Stadium.

and how wonderful it is, but how wonderful that can also be to an opposition player as well, which is a point I never really thought about. Well, when I was a player, you walk into a stadium, you get an immediate lift and think, wow, this is great. This is brilliant, beautiful. Tottenham Stadium is, for me, by far the best stadium I've been to all around the country. You know, it just is. It's a cathedral. It's just amazing. Players look at getting that stadium and they're thinking...

This is today. We're right up against it, you know, like in some ways. In other ways, you're like looking forward to it. You're looking forward to playing in that great stadium. And Wolves did. Wolves started the game really well. Fast on the front foot, enjoying it. And then, okay, they get a lead in the game. And then they obviously, Tottenham were, Newcastle got great opportunity playing Spurs because one thing that stood out that the legs and energy of Wolves, that was giving,

problems and the centre half position whether it's Gray and whether it's Dragerson they play that opens up for Izak it just does and Gordon will cause Poro loads of problems because Poro is brilliant going forward but boy you can get in behind him and hurt him and with his pace I think that's I

I think it's a great opportunity for Newcastle. There was loads... The two substitutions at half-time by Wolves, Larsson came on and Goodis completely changed the game. And they went from... They played loads of diagonal balls, Wolves. The one difference that I felt that was obvious to me was how many times a manager was demanding they played a long diagonal. Literally because Tottenham shuffle across and then they get isolated on a one-on-one and they're not good at one-on-ones. Ndugi was struggling as well in the game on the one-on-ones. So I...

I thought Tottenham were... Because it's weird. I've seen Tottenham three times this year before the Saturday, and all of them, they've been brilliant in the game. They've played really well. And this was the first time I've gone, wow. But I saw them at the end of last year. We talked about that before, the results at the end of last season. Honestly, it's a great game for Newcastle. There are many problems still for...

Costa Ag, Costa Coglu, because of him not having his two normal centre-halves, Fraser Forster is a nervous wreck. He really is. I feel for the lad. Because he's kicking the ball... And does that, some of that, because the other point about the stadium, and I thought this recently having gone for the first time, is that as brilliant as it is and what a kind of cacophony of noise it can create when everything's going well...

When it goes bad, it's like all those big stadiums. A friend of mine many years ago said that the problem for Sheffield Wednesday, when they fell through the divisions and they were suddenly in the third tier, the big problem for them was that they were suddenly buying players from the third tier

who were then playing at hillsborough and they were still getting 20 000 crowds in in league one or whatever it was called back then i mean you know the third tier and um and it was a real problem for them because suddenly someone would misplace a pass as can happen in the third tier and you've got 20 000 people where where the club they come from where the club they come from

were getting gates of 6,000 and they weren't used to this sudden pressure being on you. You played at that level, Greg, on occasions. You know, it's different, isn't it? I mean, when you go to... There's more big teams now in those divisions that are getting those higher crowds. But at the time, Shuffle Wednesday were an outlier to have a stadium that size and it being in League One or whatever it was.

And the same, you know, it happened at West Ham. West Ham suddenly went to 60,000 people.

60,000 people with a hump. It's no fun. It's no fun if you're a left-back who's slightly not sure of it in possession. Why do you say left-back when you looked at Greg? Yeah, I was actually a lot. Empathetic acknowledgement. Or centre-forward. Or centre-forward or anyone, really.

It's, you know, I was thinking of a back because, you know, you make a mistake and it's right on your goal. 60,000 people at a hump is no fun. And that's what they've got at Tottenham a lot of the time. Yeah, just very quickly, just to finish on Tottenham, there was a question I asked the guys on Monday, Martin and Tony, to you, on Ange Postacoglu. Do we see him still being in charge come the end of the season?

No, because I don't think they'll make Champions League football. You don't think they'll do it? I think with Levy, it's always, you know, is very much so. And many clubs about revenue for next season, and I don't see it. Unless he has an amazing 25 from here to the end, there's still lots of problems at that football club. I don't think you can finish, if Tottenham finish, where they are now.

what are they at the moment 11th I was going to say they're top of the bottom half aren't they yeah they're 11th so if we go old school on it what would be the second page on CFAX when you were looking at the league table

top of the bottom, and I don't think you can finish there as a modern Tottenham manager. I think you could finish there at Tottenham a number of years ago, and if you're going in the right direction... Not in the second season. Yeah, second season. So I don't think he can come 11th and be Tottenham's manager in 25, 26. Unless...

He wins the Europa League unless he wins... Carabao Cup. The Carabao Cup, the FA Cup maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you'd have to win something because...

11th is, you know, this is a team, this is a club that had pretensions to join a Super League for God's sake. You know, they were going to cut everyone, you know, there's two teams in the bottom half of the table that a couple of years ago wanted to cut 14 clubs loose, basically, and we're going off to a bright new future and you're not part of it. Maybe that's why they saw it coming. Well,

Maybe that's why. Just one quick point on that. That's exactly why, by the way, because they're terrified that they're not good enough. But that's another story. We know we talk about injuries and some clubs have severe injuries. Tottenham's been mentioned in that. They've lost their two centre-halves and their goalkeeper. Every other position was the first-teamer. So you ain't got a glut of injuries. You've got important ones, but you haven't got a bit

spite of injuries all across your team. It's just two centre-halves and it's one keeper. And the two centre-halves are both players that have cost £70 million between them in the last two years. One for Gray, £30 odd million, and one for Dragerson, £40 million. £70 million. So you can't be...

screaming about really terrible injuries either. And the two centre-halves that are missing, by the way, one of them is Romero, who is a walking red card or accident waiting to happen. I mean, it's not like they're missing Hanson and Lawrenson.

you know they're not missing you know they're not missing two in a row Vanderbilt's been the bigger miss isn't he yeah absolutely but Romero there's a lot of Tottenham teams that Romero wouldn't get into yeah absolutely Tottenham Newcastle the big game on Saturday and up next we'll be talking about the big game on Sunday Liverpool against Manchester United but it's time for a break so it's time for the quiz question who am I talking about when I say yeah yeah back with a vengeance

I nearly said, Martin, after the last show, what's your biggest wish for 2025? I thought, can I see it? No, because... Do you know the thing is, any time I have a show off, I always listen to it and he takes it really seriously when you do it. He's always really... He's doing me a song. He's doing me a song. Mate!

I've never took it seriously in my life. I've listened every time Greg has hosted you like, oh, good one that, Greg. Hasn't Martin got the last two that I've been on? He has. He loves it really, Tom, doesn't he? Anyway, in the break, he's straight in with the answer and see if he can get this one. A former footballer who played more than 200 times for Liverpool as well as featuring for Leicester, Birmingham, Wigan and Aston Villa. Nice and easy. Find out after the break.

We all want to enjoy food that tastes great and is sourced responsibly. But it's not always easy to know where your favourite foods come from. McDonald's works with more than 23,000 British and Irish farmers to source quality ingredients. Becky Berry is a beef farmer in the Wiltshire countryside who supplies beef to McDonald's for its iconic burgers. I'm part of a group of farmers and we've been on a journey that McDonald's have sponsored to help us with learning more about regenerative practices.

and how that can benefit us, our farms, the people and the animals that we're producing. It's a way of McDonald's giving back to the whole industry. What we're trying to do now is move the cows from where they've eaten and they're moving into a longer, lusher pasture. And part of that reason is to help the biodiversity.

As you can see here in the long grass, we've got moths and butterflies that have just hatched out. We can hear in the hedgerows around the outside of the field the birdsong. Change a little, change a lot. Find out more about McDonald's plan for change on the McDonald's website.

Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from The Times. I'm Tom Clarke and I've got Martin, Samuel, Tony Cascarino and Gregor Robertson with me. Tony was straight in with the quiz question answer, which was... Emil Heskey. Emil Heskey. I always like your tone as well, Tony. You just deliver it with such enthusiasm like you're on a quiz show.

Full marks, 10 out of 10. Let's talk about Wayne Rooney. He has been sacked by Plymouth Argyle. Well, sacked, mutual agreement. It's all the same these days, isn't it? No one gets sacked anymore. It's all mutual agreement. Honestly, if I ever leave here, you know like one of those where you've got two security guards...

two security guards escorting you through the building and like you know someone's setting fire to all the contents of your desk or whatever they'll still say Martin Samuel has left the Times by mutual agreement even if it was somebody physically thrown onto the pavement outside a

bang from ever returning to the building again they would still say Martin Samuel and the Times have decided to part company by mutual agreement there's a future private eye entry if ever heard from that anyway let's get back to Wayne Rooney and he's mutual agreement departure from Plymouth Argyle 39 year old former England captain sought

Managed just four league wins in charge, 13 defeats in 23 championship games and Plymouth are bottom of the table. Gregor, this has been coming for a little while. You felt it's a subject that we discussed on the EFL show a few months ago. You spoke quite positively that day. You kept having the last minute sort of 90-something minutes equalisers and winners. I do remember us picking out a few underlying stats that suggested that perhaps they weren't defensively as sound as they needed to be and so it's proved in the last couple of weeks.

Yeah, I mean, the 2-0 defeat against Oxford was their sixth defeat in a nine-win list game run. Scored a joint fewest goals in the second tier, conceded more than any other club, that's not a good recipe, like any way you cut it. As I say, what I was referencing there, there were games and moments, and quite a few of them, that sort of suggested that there was certainly spirit in the team and they were...

you know, snatching draws from defeats and stuff. There were quite a few of those moments at home in particular. And until quite recently, there was always a suggestion that the players were behind them. The fans, I think when he arrived, it wasn't like Birmingham, they were hopeful that he was going to be a success. He was obviously a big name coming to...

to a club that was happy to have more profile I think you could say but more recently they were booed and you could tell that the tide had turned and it was threatening to become a bit toxic I think they saw a game against Bristol City which they drew to on New Year's Day they saw that that could be quite toxic and I think decided to call it a day early so for Rooney it's been

you know he's had two sackings at the end of the last two years pretty short ten years and the question is where he goes now and it's like the thing for me I think we were all agreeing before I'm quite sad about it you want he's

he's not like you don't feel you feel like you get some some managers who've had such stellar careers who who kind of are happy to live on that a bit in the past the past glories he's often said I'm starting from scratch I want to forget that I want to be a manager in my own right and I know it's hard for Wayne Rooney to do that but at least he's being honest about it and he's

He's backed it up with his actions too. He's gone to places he wouldn't necessarily have thought he would have. And I still believe he'll do that again and again. He said, I'll go to League 1, I'll go to League 2. I think everyone's saying that he's finished. There'll be a club in one of those leagues who will take Wayne Rooney still. Where he goes long term is a different one. But I'm also slightly...

you fear he's slightly vulnerable without football too, eh, Rooney? Look, Greg, you watch more lower league football than me. Would you say that his idea was flawed with the way his team's attempted to play? Well, I think he's someone who's bought into this notion that you have to be, you have to play football in a certain way to...

to be a successful modern manager at the top level and he's not the only person who's done that but he's done it at places where like we have this conversation very often where the tools weren't necessarily there for him to do so and so that idea is flawed

You can't ask when you go to Birmingham a team who played a certain way under John Eustace and didn't have John Ruddy in goal who was towards the end of his career and asked them to do things that feel pretty alien to them after the start of a season in which they've been quite successful up to that point playing a completely different way

It was slightly different at Plymouth, but again, you're playing with a team and a club who have one of the lowest budgets, if not the lowest budget in the division, and you're asking them to play a certain way, a certain brand of football, against teams who dwarf them in every way. And he doesn't know the leagues. No. That's not where he comes from. That's not where he's ever been in his professional career. Those leagues, those sort of clubs, he's always been...

I know he spent some time in America. I know Everton is not Manchester United, but he has always been around an elite professional set-up. And then suddenly you're in a completely different set-up. And it takes a certain sort of manager to...

adapt to that I mean you know if you go back a number of years John Beck very famously at Cambridge United you see John Beck play John Beck was a lovely footballer he really was a lovely footballer and he played for good teams but when he went to Cambridge United suddenly you know he adapted very quickly to the demands of the lower league and

also Lincoln manager as well Darren Huckabee tells a great story about how he once then was running down the wing and had been told specifically just put the ball in the box and he cut inside and shot and he subbed him off yeah Harry Redknapp said they were playing Cambridge United once and there was a kid playing first or second game in the centre of midfield

And he got the ball, nothing was on. He said absolutely nothing was on. He said we were really busy. He said and we closed it down. He said and he turned around and he knocked it back. He said and Peck's come flying off his side, shouted forward, forward to this kid. So anyway, the kid gets the ball, same thing happens. He said, you know, we close him down very quickly, turns around, just lays it back or whatever. Peck comes out screaming at him again.

do that again you're off he said it's five minutes into the game he said anyway gets the ball again same thing happens again we close him down he doesn't just boot it anywhere he just turns back and passes it off he got subbed off after about seven minutes took him off that was it can I just add on one thing that I've

Stephen Kenny wasn't a big name, okay, in Irish football. He managed Dundalk and he eventually got the Republic of Ireland job. And his argument was that the way that they attempted at Dundalk to play, he didn't see any reason why not Ireland couldn't play in a similar way. And that was playing from everywhere, but with a lesser quality of player. He would say, well, you try and make them better. Okay, to a point.

Ireland couldn't buy a goal and couldn't win a match. Okay? His idea was literally to keep the ball everywhere. And I watched game after game thinking, you are putting these players up against the very best technical players in the world, obviously the elite level of international football, or even mediocre level, they're still decent on the ball, and you're trying to outplay them. And that's what I've seen Plymouth twice this year. And I kept thinking...

Wow, you're overplaying in an area that clearly the players are not comfortable playing in. And you're giving matches away, you're giving points away.

I don't think there's any one way to win at football. I think it's a lot more complex than that. Yeah, you don't have to be John Beck. No, you don't have to be John Beck. There is a wide difference between John Beck and obviously Wayne Rooney's playoff. They're completely two different contracts. But you have to play with what you've got. And if what you've got isn't good enough to do the type of things you need...

then you're going to fall flat on your face. I should say they played some pretty expansive football under Ryan Lowe and Schumacher before him. They're a progressive club actually. They've got a really smart owner in Simon Hallett who's a local boy that made good in the US and has put a lot of money into the club. But still relatively speaking, they were only promoted two years ago.

they're a minnow in terms of their budget and what not their budget would be top six wouldn't it so you know I often reference Ipswich in this now because Ipswich they played like that in League 1 and then when they were brought to the Championship they recognised that they're playing against far better opponents and that they have to tailor and like be flexible in their approach and they've done the same again in the Premier League so like

if you have these kind of dogmas about how football should be played or how your team is always going to play you will fail more often than not when we was at the game Ipswich Brighton weren't we Brighton Ipswich and you

Brighton sorry Ipswich Brighton are a great physical team they are but Ipswich absolutely stayed with them in the game and got a draw out of it and I was like they've got a chance these because they're not overplaying yeah well speaking of managers who are sticking to a style and feeling the pressure a little bit let's finish with a chat about Ruben Amarin Manchester United and their big game against Liverpool this weekend

Lots of kind of off the field issues around this game, not just the clash that's going to happen on it. I wanted to talk first about Trent Alexander-Arnold. The news coming out on the Times website this week reported by Paul Joyce about offers from Real Madrid at Liverpool making clear they do not want to let the right back leave this month, but the Spanish side weighing up whether to test

the Anfield clubs resolve. Again, found this very interesting, little bit of kind of maybe PR exercises maybe on behalf of both clubs. Martin, what do you make of this news about Real's interest in signing Alexander-Arnold this window? The idea that Trent was going to go to Real Madrid or that Real Madrid were interested in Trent is hardly a surprise. They're willing to spend £20 million in the January transfer window

isn't really a surprise either because they need to get over the line in the Champions League. They're not in the best position in the Champions League and they need to get over the line in La Liga as well. And they clearly see someone in Trent Alexander-Arnold that can help them do that. They don't want to commit too much to it because he's a free transfer at the end of the season. So I totally understand it.

From Real Madrid's point of view, I also completely understand why to Liverpool 20 million isn't worth anything. They've got exactly the same ambitions as Real Madrid. They're much better. They've got more chance of achieving those ambitions with Trent than without him. So I can see why you would not even take the phone call, not even entertain it. I think he's going. I do think he's going. Yeah.

But he doesn't... You might just as well let it go to him, but you might just as well let it play out to the end of the season. There is no suggestion in anything that Trent Alexander has done so far this season that suggests he's shielding, he's trying to avoid getting injured, his heart's not in it. He's playing out of his skin for Liverpool. He's playing as hard as he possibly can.

I don't see the problem with it. You get to the end of the contract, fair exchange, no robbery, you shake hands and you've both been wonderful for each other and he goes off and plays for Real Madrid. Tony, what do you make of this situation and also maybe still the rumblings around Virgil van Dijk and Mo Salah as well? Well, I think there's a couple of differences. Obviously, the age of van Dijk and Salah are different. I think Spain is...

Maybe taking more than one. I wouldn't be surprised if Barcelona nick one of them. But I do see Trent going to Real. One thing that's got to me a bit in the last few weeks has been this continual. Liverpool have made a mistake with Trent. And you could go...

Well, to Salah and Van Dijk, yes, I'd say that's a mistake. As in... What, to not let them... Well, no. Look, this happens in our career. We talk about this in our career. When you get to 30 or around that, when they were... When Salah signed his last two years, it was quite easy to go, well, we'll keep you at the end of your days. You'll finish your playing days here. Offer him a four-year deal. And say, what do you think we get...

Get four years out of you. Lots of clubs used to do that. He used to go, he's going to play the rest of his career here. And they could have said the same for Van Dijk and had a one-year option on him to get him to 35. You could have easily done the same with Salah. When he was 13, he signed a two-year. Say, we want you to stay for your finishing days. You finish your days here. Now, he might not have agreed to that, but you've attempted to do that to keep him. Now, Trent's different. When he's 26, now, that's a big asset.

Two years ago, and I remember this because Trent wasn't in good form two years ago when he signed, well, when he was on quite a long contract at the time.

He'd been part of a Liverpool team that had 14 defeats in the season 22-23. He was part of the team that got ripped apart by Napoli in the Champions League and had a very difficult start of that season. Then she lost at Leeds at home. Trent wasn't playing particularly well. I think at that time, the club has probably gone, we're not going to throw a big contract at him now. He was in and out of team at periods between 22-23. And obviously, he would have signed a long-term contract before that. So Trent...

Looks like it's been negligent, but if you go back two years ago, which is the 22-23 season, Trent wasn't playing his best football. By the way, he didn't play a game for England that year.

So he wasn't the outstanding... Look, to Liverpool fans, we knew that he was one of the better players. He wasn't playing his best football that season. He's played brilliantly, certainly from parts of last year and into this year, Trent's been exceptional. So now it looks like a massive mistake. And I think Liverpool did leave it because they probably would have thought of considering selling Trent at that particular time. He was in and out of the Liverpool team.

Not having that Gregor? I don't think they would have considered selling him personally I think Well why not if you've got a big feed? Why not?

if you go back to 22-23 Gregor look at the results look at the performances by Trent yeah they had a difficult season but so did Liverpool as a club and so did a lot of players they had no midfields there was a lot of issues Milner played right back during that season as well he's the golden boy I know what you can sometimes be is a little bit complacent when it's an academy guy who's come through and you think he's going to be committed to you for life he's said that in the past too he said I've

I've seen myself playing here forever I can't see that changing it looks like it might have changed so there could be a bit of complacency also you always need someone to want to sign the contract and they have been talking to him for a while now and he's not wanted to sign the contract so that suggests in itself that he's seeing sort of global more global sort of ambitions and if Real Madrid have been talking to him in the background for a while and saying or his representative and saying like

who are very interested, then it's hard for anyone to turn that down. We say this all the time when we're talking about the biggest players. The biggest players in the Premier League, there's only a couple of places, really, that are genuine lures now. Real Madrid is very much one of them. It's important because Van Dijk as well's contract is up. They need a centre-half for Real Madrid. They've got Rudiger.

They're playing Vasquez at right back, who's not at right back because of Carvajal. So there's lots of... Militao's not good enough for Real Madrid. So there's loads of things going on. I wouldn't... If someone said to me at the end of the season, this might sound mad, and said, Spain got all three of them, that wouldn't be out of the realms of possibility for me. Because Barca could quite easily... They've been doing this in Spain, by the way. They've had a number of free transfers by the big clubs, like Lewandowski and others. If they think they could get Virgil van Dijk on a free, Real Madrid is the...

is the biggest club in the world they're the one that can get anybody if they want you and if I was at Real Madrid and I was Angelo who loves an experienced player said by the way Van Dijk's out of contract in the summer go and get him he can do another three years for us

He loves English football. He loves English football. He's got a great admiration for players who can make it in English football. Ancelotti, Rudiger and guys like that, Modric and stuff. He's got a great admiration for the sort of... He loves older players, doesn't he? He likes older players. He likes experience. He thinks having experienced players around is very, very important when you're bringing young players through and everything.

yeah absolutely nightmare show for Liverpool fans this isn't it we're talking with Tony's got a lot of leading I hope I'm wrong Tom I really hope I'm wrong because like Gregor I think there's valid points but if this club you're up and you're a big player and you're sitting top of the league and you're playing fabulous well and you're still the biggest clubs in the world will still go after you they're not going to go oh no he's 34

No chance. They've clearly been given some encouragement. Real Madrid don't make fools of themselves. They don't come in for a player that doesn't want to go to Real Madrid. Ferguson will tell you, he never got a single offer in his entire life as a Manchester United manager. Never got one single offer, one single phone call for Paul Scholes.

because everybody knew. Once when they made the preliminary call to Scholes' agent or to whoever, they would have been told, Paul's got no interest in playing anybody other than Manchester United, don't waste your time. And Ferguson said, so whatever preliminary calls were made, the answer was sufficient that a second call just wasn't necessary. The very fact that Real Madrid have bid £20 million for

means that someone, somewhere, one imagines has said to them

yeah Trent will come to you now it's whether you can make it happen in January or whether you have to wait until the summer for it to happen if they were smart if it was a smart representative too it also is going to play pretty well in their hands with Liverpool now in their talks with Liverpool so but yeah Marne's right there's obviously been encouragement and like it's up to Trent at the end of the day who could blame him if he went well would you have went for Cristiano Ronaldo a year before they got him

because they knew Cristiano Ronaldo wanted to come to Real Madrid. It wasn't, you know, nothing changed. He would have gone a year earlier, but Fergie persuaded him, do one more year, could you give us one more year? And the arrangement was, but at the end of this season...

I'll let you go. Yeah, a fascinating backdrop to this big game. Let's talk about the game just to finish. Tony, I wanted to talk to you about something that, again, we didn't talk about much on Monday. Joshua Xerxe, Manchester United forward, subbed off very early in the game. You immediately text me saying, oh, he'll be feeling horrible. That happened to me. Tell us about it. Well, yeah, as soon as I was watching the game and thinking...

When the managers made the change, Pereira... Sorry, Pereira. Ameren. Ameren. I'm getting confused how many games I've watched. Yeah. Ameren and... Confused how many Portuguese managers. When it happened, I immediately thought of Parkhead on a winter's night, getting subbed and getting booed as I was going off. Like PTSD, that. Oh, and it was. It was...

So you got subbed off in the first half? No, not in the first half. I got subbed in with the reaction was exactly the same. I went to control a ball, so I dropped kick and I lost it in the lights, as Greg would tell you every now and again. I'm not making an excuse. I did. I lost it in the light. Oh, God. I don't use that as an excuse. And completely missed the ball.

And I hadn't been playing well. And the reaction from the fans was literally booing and whatever. Then I got literally, Liam Brady subbed me a minute after. And the noise, the ringing of the boos from the jungle at Celtic Park were quite scary. And I remember walking there and thinking, wow, I'm done here. This is me. That's me done.

And it's the first time I've ever gone into a manager days after and said to Liam Brady, I said to him, I think you need to leave me out anyway, Liam. Even if you're making that decision anyway. I said, I think I need to come out of the first team for a while. Really? Yeah. And I played a couple of reserve games. But do you know the most amazing thing? And this is what I talked about in the piece that...

Even though that reaction was pretty severe towards him and he'll feel absolutely on the floor about it. And the players will try and gather around him, try and pick him up a bit. I guarantee you when he does reappear, because he will, the reception will be great. They'll be trying to, because I think there'll be an element. And I got a reaction from that as well, from Sally Fenn. It did help I scored against Rangers, but it did help. Yeah.

But that stayed with me for years. I'd never been booed from 19 to 26, and the first time in my career was being booed at Parkhead in front of, what, 45,000, 50,000, whatever it was there. And I didn't quite know how to react to it.

you could get angry like Xhaka did you remember Xhaka the way he gave it to the fans you could do what he did head down just go off goes down the tunnel reappears and you're going low key I did the low key just sat there on the bench but it

it's a pretty lonely place and it's lonely afterwards and it's horrible going into training walking around the town people see you or whatever you know it's just I felt for the lad he's 23 years old I was 26 so but it was probably the lowest part of my career yeah but Xerxes won't be the only person feeling like he's under a lot of pressure no a lot of their players a lot of their players will be feeling like that and this is about the worst game they could possibly going into Martin at Anfield against the in-form team the team that look like they're going to score five every single game erm

What are you making of Manchester United? What can they do? What can Ruben Amarim do? He's another manager like Ange Postacoglu who's saying, this is my way, this is my system. Well, that's... Yeah, you could have a second idea. I don't know. That was... That is what would worry me. If I was in charge of Manchester United now, what would worry me is to hear the manager keep talking about my idea in the singular. Because, you know...

If the results are getting worse, I mean, there's no doubt, you look at the points per game that United were getting under 10 hard, and the points per game they're getting now under Amrim, and it's a deterioration. If you extrapolated it over 38 matches, they just about stay up. You're talking about 16th, 17th place, you're just about staying up. With that points per game over a season of 38 matches.

And Amarim says, this is my idea. And you think, well, you've either got to have another idea that's better than this one, or you've got to get better at this idea. And the problem is that I don't see how they can do that in January because he doesn't seem as if he's got a second idea. And I don't see how he can possibly get the players to play the way he wants to play.

You don't think there could be a case... We have seen it before in football where managers... You go down and you come through the other side. Yeah, I've seen it. In a much more extreme example. I've also seen them where it goes down and then they go down again. Absolutely. Look, I'm as amazed as anyone that people are talking about relegation at Manchester United. And I think maybe that aspect of it is being overplayed. And it's being overplayed very understandably because...

is what makes anyone say gee whiz and Manchester United could be relegated and their Manchester United manager openly talking about them being in a relegation battle is a gee whiz moment because just as we never thought we would ever see a team like Leicester win the league you

you never thought you would ever see a team like Manchester United threatened by relegation. So the very idea that they might be, you can suddenly see why all the newspapers, every media outlet is full of people speculating, talking about what would happen if they went down and what would they lose. Because it's a story you never thought you'd write.

you know, you get bored writing the same stories all the time. This is something totally new. We're all in completely uncharted territory. So I understand why there's so much focus on that side of it, even though...

I can't countenance that Manchester United could possibly go down. But it does worry me that the manager is absolutely insistent that this system, that, I mean, anyone who saw the game on the box the other night, the Man U-Newcastle, Jamie Carragher's analysis of that game was magnificent. And you can argue, well, you know, anyone can do that. But,

But everything that he was saying was right about, look, there's a big square right in the middle. That's the space that Casemiro and Ericsson have got to cover. They've got absolutely no chance of covering it whatsoever. Circles a Newcastle player standing there in 15 yards of space in all directions and says, how does he not think that was going to be a problem? Well, all of it, you're just looking at it going, yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right, mate. You're absolutely right, mate. And that isn't on...

the players and this was Jamie's point it's not on the players that is on the coach the coach has sent the team out to play that way because that is his idea well I'm very sorry either do the idea better or get a second idea because this one it isn't working anyone got a give Man United a chance in this game spirited nil nil Gregor backs to the wall

That's not his idea! But that's not his idea! No! His idea is that they go there and they dominate and play in 3-4-3! I saw the foundations as the bedrock of his idea but like, yeah, his idea also I think we're getting slightly lost in translation that's like, for that you would read philosophy wouldn't you? Wouldn't you?

I think so. I'll tell you what, Greg, last week I did the benefit of doubt thing with translation because I actually wrote, I don't think he really means that they're in a relegation battle. I think when he talks about survival, he just means...

through this period of time and stuff like that. And then he came out two days later and said he was in a relegation battle. So I'm thinking, right, well, that's the last, you know, I was giving him the best. I was looking at that and thinking, well, he's in his second language here. You can't pin him to the wall on everything.

So, yeah, okay, idea, philosophy or whatever, but even his philosophy, you've got to have more than one. No, no, no, the point still stands, the point still stands, you're absolutely right. The main thing when you look ahead to this game is that they're, in sporting terms, they're completely irrelevant to each other now, really. They're like Manchester United are nothing to Liverpool, really. This used to be the biggest game of the season. It's not anymore. It's not been for a little while, but it really, really isn't now. It's, they're...

It would be an enormous surprise if Liverpool don't win. It would be a seismic shock if Manchester United win. I think it's that kind of explicit now. They are just completely...

polar opposites of the scale that's why you haven't got a job on Super Sunday mate you're rubbish this one I'm joking I'm joking we had this a little while ago that in itself is like extraordinary we had this a little while ago there was a match a couple of years ago I seem to remember it might have been a year or maybe two or whatever

And it was a similar sort of situation. Liverpool were a much better team than Manchester United. And everyone was saying, this is the perfect match for Manchester United because they can come out, they can be the underdogs, they can, you know, they can do all that, you know, they can do all of that thing and, you know, even if they were to get a draw, it would seem like a great result and this is a perfect opportunity for Manchester United to, you know, it's like a kick into an empty net. They've got to beat 7-0. Yeah.

That was the last time it was a match like this. And you're sort of thinking, oh, they could go against the grain here. They could get inspired by Liverpool, et cetera, et cetera. I'm not saying it's going to be 7-0. They can't score. No, no, no. A team that can't score and a team that can't stop scoring. If Man United won with the idea that he's got in place, it'd be the eighth wonder of the world. Because, honestly... We've said this, we've begged this up now. They're definitely going to win. No, no, no. I'm going full on because...

what Damien Carrick and Martin was talking about was spot on the thing that stood out from the game were Newcastle it was so easy for them for 25-30 minutes it was so easy it was like a cup tie between two teams from different divisions it was unbelievable to watch and I thought during the game I thought wonder how many Man United players were getting this Newcastle team and the answer was none none

None. None of the Man United players I would have added in that Newcastle team. And I'm not just talking about the result on the night. So then we go to tactics of the weekend. Now, if he's going to stick by his tactics and his midfield's going to be ploddy, well, Liverpool got loads of legs. If you've got a team that can run all day and do it from forward areas to midfield areas and defensively against a team that can't,

How can you make an argument the Man United can win this? He's either got to change something that he's got. Because if he puts that team out with a similar idea of the midfield with no legs...

they are going to get taken apart and with a less body as well one less body that's the thing one less body they went with a two they didn't go with a three and go with that extra body they went with a two if he's going to do that good luck they've made the point as well you've got to have then defenders who are brave enough to step in and they're not brave enough to do it so when you've seen that time and time again but it's like the back as well Gregor Liverpool got loads of plays well yeah if you're asking your defenders to step in but Martins is not quick Harry Maguire's not quick

So Man United, what we're saying is Man United fans, might be time to book yourself a nice bit of tea on Sunday night. No, you have to change tactics. Might be time to book yourself a nice tea. We've already talked about it loads already and we've not even had the game yet. We'll be back on Monday to talk about it. But for now, I'm not on Monday. 2-0 United win. 2-0 United win. A masterclass. I'm not on Monday. Well, that was the cup final though, wasn't it? Everyone was going, how are they going to get murdered in the cup final? And they beat City 2-0. But I didn't...

So stranger changes have happened. Martin, Samuel, Tony Cascarino and Gregor Robertson, thank you very much for joining me. Thank you too for listening. As I say, we'll be back on Monday. We'll see you then. We all want to enjoy food that tastes great and is sourced responsibly. But it's not always easy to know where your favourite foods come from. McDonald's works with more than 23,000 British and Irish farmers to source quality ingredients.

Sophie Bambridge grows quality potatoes for McDonald's Iconic Fries in Norfolk. I think McDonald's are one of the biggest supporters of British farming. They have a real commitment to British potatoes. The Sustainable Fries Fund is a collaborative investment by McCain and McDonald's.

to help us understand and try different growing techniques for potatoes so that we can understand what we can do to help reduce our impact on the environment but still produce a good quality potato. It helps enable us to try things without having the risk and cost of potentially it going wrong. The support from McCain and McDonald's is really useful to us. Change a little, change a lot. Find out more about McDonald's Plan for Change on the McDonald's website.