cover of episode 12/22/2024: The Pager Plot, The Iron River, Joy to the World

12/22/2024: The Pager Plot, The Iron River, Joy to the World

2024/12/23
logo of podcast 60 Minutes

60 Minutes

People
6
60 Minutes记者
前ATF探员Tim Sloan
墨西哥前总统洛佩斯·奥夫拉多尔
墨西哥律师Alejandro Solario
墨西哥律师Jonathan Lowy
枪店老板Virachart Danger Murphy
Topics
Mossad探员Michael:Mossad的行动始于10年前,利用改装的步话机作为武器,最终发展到利用寻呼机。通过创建虚假公司和复杂的供应链,成功地将武器卖给了真主党。此次行动的目标并非杀死真主党成员,而是削弱其战斗力并展示以色列的强大实力。此次行动导致真主党领导人哈桑·纳斯鲁拉的失败和战争的结束。虽然没有完全摧毁真主党,但此次行动使其处于极其困难的境地。“寻呼机计划”对整个中东地区产生了深远的影响,削弱了伊朗及其代理势力。此次行动可能对哈马斯与以色列的冲突产生影响。此次行动具有心理战的性质,旨在让真主党感到脆弱。 Mossad探员Gabriel:Mossad对寻呼机进行了改装,使其成为爆炸装置。改装后的寻呼机是一个简单的爆炸装置,没有追踪或情报功能。说服真主党使用体积更大的寻呼机是一个挑战。 60 Minutes记者:以色列情报机构Mossad策划了一起利用寻呼机进行的复杂欺骗行动,导致了广泛的影响。以色列Mossad在与真主党冲突期间实施了“寻呼机计划”,这是一个复杂的间谍行动。“寻呼机计划”对中东地区局势产生了重大影响,削弱了真主党、伊朗和叙利亚阿萨德政权。寻呼机爆炸后,会发出信息提示用户按下两个按钮才能读取加密信息,但无论是否按下,寻呼机都会爆炸。寻呼机的爆炸装置在以色列被引爆。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

What was the Pager Plot and how did it affect Hezbollah and the region?

The Pager Plot was a sophisticated Mossad operation that involved creating explosive pagers and walkie-talkies, which were sold to Hezbollah. The devices were activated in September 2024, causing chaos and injuries among Hezbollah fighters. The operation weakened Hezbollah, contributed to the fall of the Assad regime in Syria, and had a ripple effect across the region, including Iran.

How many U.S. firearms are smuggled into Mexico annually, and what is the impact of this?

An estimated 200,000 to half a million U.S. firearms are smuggled into Mexico each year through the 'Iron River.' These weapons fuel cartel violence, contributing to the fentanyl crisis and organized crime in both Mexico and the United States.

What role did Samara Joy play in reviving jazz music, and how has she been received?

Samara Joy, a 25-year-old jazz vocalist, has been hailed as a once-in-a-generation talent, drawing comparisons to jazz legends like Sarah Vaughan and Ella Fitzgerald. Her powerful voice and fresh take on jazz classics have garnered critical acclaim and Grammy awards, helping to bring jazz back into the spotlight.

Why did Mexico file lawsuits against U.S. gun manufacturers and dealers?

Mexico filed lawsuits seeking $10 billion in damages, accusing U.S. gun manufacturers and dealers of reckless business practices that facilitate the trafficking of firearms to cartels. These weapons are linked to the escalation of violence and the fentanyl crisis in Mexico.

How did Mossad convince Hezbollah to buy the explosive devices?

Mossad created a network of shell companies and fake advertising to disguise the origin of the devices. They marketed the pagers and walkie-talkies as high-quality, robust products, making Hezbollah believe they were purchasing from legitimate foreign suppliers.

What was the intended outcome of the Pager Plot for Israel?

The primary goal was to demoralize Hezbollah fighters and disrupt their operations, creating fear and vulnerability among them. The operation aimed to weaken Hezbollah's leadership and reduce their ability to wage war against Israel.

How does Samara Joy's gospel background influence her jazz performances?

Her gospel upbringing gives her voice an emotional depth and authenticity that resonates with audiences. This background allows her to connect more deeply with the emotional core of jazz standards, making her performances more impactful.

What challenges did Mossad face in developing the explosive pagers?

Mossad had to ensure the pagers were bulky enough to contain explosives without arousing suspicion. They also had to test the devices to minimize collateral damage and create ringtones that would compel users to retrieve the pagers from their pockets.

What is the significance of Samara Joy's Grammy wins and nominations?

Her Grammy wins and nominations highlight her exceptional talent and the revival of interest in jazz music. As a Best New Artist winner and multiple Grammy recipient, she has become a symbol of the genre's potential to reach new audiences.

How did the Pager Plot affect Hezbollah's leadership?

The operation led to a loss of morale among Hezbollah fighters and a subdued response from leader Hassan Nasrallah, who appeared defeated in his public speeches. This weakened Hezbollah's chain of command and fighting spirit.

Chapters
This chapter details Mossad's 10-year operation involving exploding walkie-talkies and pagers targeting Hezbollah. It describes the meticulous planning, the creation of the devices, and the execution of the plot, highlighting the significant impact on Hezbollah and the broader Middle East.
  • Mossad's deceptive operation using exploding walkie-talkies and pagers.
  • The meticulous planning and execution of the operation.
  • The significant impact on Hezbollah and the broader Middle East.

Shownotes Transcript

Translations:
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On September 17th, the Israeli spy agency Mossad launched one of the most daring and sophisticated deceptions in the history of counterintelligence, the pager plot. People with this pager got a message that said, you have an encrypted message. In order to access it, you have to push the two buttons, meaning that it would explode in their hands. That was the whole point.

If you think fentanyl overdoses are a problem, if you think migration across the border is a problem, if you think the spread of organized crime is a problem in the United States, then you should care about stopping the crime gun pipeline to Mexico. We need to stop it at its source, because all those problems are driven by the supply of U.S. guns to the cartels.

This holiday season, we thought the world could use a little joy. Jazz singer Samara Joy. You are my joy.

I'm Leslie Stahl. I'm Bill Whitaker. I'm Anderson Cooper. I'm Sharon Alfonsi. I'm John Wertheim. I'm Cecilia Vega. I'm Scott Pelley. Those stories and more tonight on 60 Minutes.

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So join us every week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts. On September 17th, after Israel and the terrorist organization Hezbollah had been in an escalating war for nearly a year, the Israeli spy agency Mossad launched one of the most daring and sophisticated deceptions in the history of counterintelligence, the Pager Plot, a modern take on the Trojan horse.

Mossad created a bomb in a pocket and tricked Hezbollah fighters into unwittingly wearing these devices on their bodies. The repercussions of the plot have been dramatic, including aiding in the fall of the Assad regime in Syria, the weakening of Iran, and the decimating of the target of the plot, Hezbollah.

We spoke with two recently retired senior Mossad agents with leading roles in the operation. To hide their identities, we agreed they could wear a mask and have their voices altered. We started with Michael, not his real name.

You were something called a case officer. What exactly is a case officer? A case officer spearheads the operation. He is the commander of the operation. The operation started 10 years ago, not with pagers, but with weaponizing walkie-talkies. A walkie-talkie was a weapon, just like a bullet or a missile or a mortar. So a walkie-talkie bomb. A walkie-talkie bomb.

Inside the battery, there is an explosive device. And that was the invention, to put an explosive device that couldn't be detected into the battery. Correct. Made in Israel. At Mossad? Yes. As I understand it, these walkie-talkies went into a tactical vest that a soldier would put on, and then this would go in the pocket. Correct. Near the heart. Yes. So Israel sold this device

to Hezbollah. Hezbollah paid for this weapon that was to be used against them. They got a good price. A good price that couldn't be too low or they'd be suspicious.

In the end, Hezbollah bought over 16,000 of these exploding walkie-talkies that Israel then didn't activate for 10 years until three months ago. How did you convince Hezbollah to buy this? Well, obviously, they didn't know that they were buying it from Israel. Who did they buy it from or think they were buying it from? We have an incredible array of possibilities

of creating foreign companies that have no way being traced back to Israel, shell companies over shell companies who affect the supply chain to our favor. We create a pretend world. We are a global production company. We write the screenplay. We're the directors, we're the producers, we're the main actors. The world is our stage.

This is Mossad's old office. Its motto from Proverbs 24:6 says in so many words, "Wage war through deception and trickery." Kind of like the CIA's smoke and mirrors, which is what this operation was all about, starting with those walkie-talkies.

But walkie-talkies are only worn in battle. So Mossad began developing a new device that Hezbollah fighters would have in their pockets all the time: a pager. A pager is almost obsolete around the world, but Hezbollah still using it. This is Gabriel, not his real name or voice.

In 2022, he and his team started developing the second phase of the operation, the booby-trapped pagers. He found out that Hezbollah was buying pagers from this company in Taiwan called Gold Apollo. This is the pager that Hezbollah was using. So it's very sleek, it's very shiny, and it certainly can fit in a pocket. So what did you do to change this?

to make it into a bomb. So to make it into a bomb, we have to enlarge it a little bit. In order to put explosives inside, but not too much. Using dummies, Mossad conducted tests with the pager in a padded glove to calibrate the grams of explosive needed to be just enough to hurt the fighter.

but not the person next to him. If we push the button, the only one that will get injured is the terrorist himself. Even if his wife or his daughter will be just next to him, he's the only one that's going to be harmed. Did you test for that? Yes. We test everything triple, double, multiple times in order to make sure there's minimum damage.

Could you use it as a tracking device? Did it have intelligence capability? Oh, no. This is a very stupid device by nature. This is the reason they're using it. There's almost no way how to tap it. It's only receiving messages and several grams of explosive. Mossad also tested these ringtones to find a sound urgent enough to compel someone to take it out of their pocket.

And they tested how long it takes a person to answer a pager. On average, seven seconds.

but how to convince Hezbollah to switch to this bulkier pager. I remember the day that I came to our director, put it on the table, and he was furious. He was telling us, there is no chance that anyone would buy such a big device. It's not comfortable in their pockets. It's heavy. Very heavy. Very heavy. It's no good. Yeah. Go back and bring me something else. It took me two weeks to convince him that although it's ugly, it has character. ♪

Character, meaning added features, which they touted in fake ads on YouTube. Robust, dustproof, waterproof, long battery life.

We make advertising movies and brochures, and we put it on the internet. And it became the best product in the BIPER area in the world. Did people other than Hezbollah want to buy this based on what was being said about it online? Yes. We received several requests from regular potential customers. Obviously, we didn't send to anyone. We just bought them with an expensive price. Mossad wanted to use the name Gold Apollo on its pager.

So it set up shell companies, including one in this building in Hungary, to dupe the Taiwanese into partnering with them. So the company in Taiwan, Gold Apollo, did they know that they were working with people from Mossad? Gold Apollo had zero clue that they are working with the Mossad. And neither did Hezbollah. When they are buying from us, they have zero clue that they are buying from the Mossad.

We make like Truman Show. Everything is controlled by us behind the scenes. In their experience, everything is normal. Everything was 100% kosher, including businessmen, marketing, engineers, showroom, everything. To further the plot, Mossad hired the Gold Apollo saleswoman Hezbollah was used to working with before. She offered them the first batch of pagers as an upgrade free of charge.

By September 2024, Hezbollah had 5,000 pagers in their pockets. The question for Israel, when to activate the sleeping bombs? There were hints Hezbollah might be getting suspicious of the devices. So Mossad head Dadi Barnea gave the go-ahead, triggering the attack and shocking people around the world as it seemed more like a spy movie than reality.

On September 17th at 3:30 p.m., pagers started beeping all over Lebanon. As I understand it, people with this pager got a message that said, "You have an encrypted message. In order to access it, you have to push the two buttons," meaning that it would explode in their hands. That was the whole point.

If someone did not push the two buttons, what happened? It's the same effect. It's going to explode anyway. The explosive was triggered in Israel? Yes.

What ensued was mayhem. People with pagers blowing up on the street, on motorcycles, hospitals filling up with the wounded, limbs, fingers torn off, bloodied, blinded, holes in stomachs. For the most part, the explosions worked as planned, they say. Watch the man on the left. Those right next to him were unscathed.

The very next day, Mossad finally activated the walkie-talkies that had been dormant for 10 years, some going off at the funerals of those killed by the pagers. All in all, about 30 people died, including two children. Around 3,000 were injured. The aim? It wasn't killing Hezbollah terrorists. If he just dead, so he's dead.

But if you're wounded, you have to take him to the hospital, take care of him. You need to invest money and efforts. And those people without hands and eyes are living proof, working in Lebanon, of don't mess with us. They are working proof of our superiority all around the Middle East.

Two days after the Pager attack, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah, known for his fiery oratory, gave a subdued speech. If you look at his eyes, he was defeated. He already lost the war. And his soldiers looked at him during that speech and they saw a broken leader. And this was the tipping point of the war.

I don't know if you know that Nasrallah, when we operate the BIPER operation, just next to him in the bunker, several people at the BIPER receiving the message. And in his own eyes, he saw them collapsing. How do you know that? It's a strong rumor. In the ensuing days, the Israeli Air Force hit targets all across Lebanon, killing over a thousand, many of them civilians.

On September 27th, it dropped massive bombs on Nasrallah's bunker, assassinating him. Two months later, after more Israeli strikes over Lebanon and more civilian deaths, the war between Israel and Hezbollah ended with a ceasefire. Did you completely destroy and crush Hezbollah? I think it's a big question, and I think the honest answer would be no.

But I think after this tipping point of the BIPR operation and the walkie-talkie and then IDF attack, put Hezbollah in a very, very difficult situation. No chain of command, no spirit in their soldiers, asking, begging for a ceasefire. So you restore your sense of superiority. But what about your moral reputation? Don't you think Israel has to worry about its reputation? Definitely. But

But there is a prioritization. First, you have to defend your people not being killed by the thousands. And then, the reputation. The pagers have had a profound rippling effect, severely weakening Iran by leaving its proxy empire in ruins, with Hezbollah shattered in Lebanon, Assad toppled in Syria.

We asked Agent Michael about the effect on Gaza. How does that affect the situation with Hamas? The wind was taken out of Hezbollah's fight after the Pajar operation, and I'm hoping that it will have an effect also on the Hamas and hostage situation because they're looking at their sides and they're seeing no one next to them. They are completely isolated now.

In terms of the kind of warfare that was conducted with the walkie-talkies and the pagers, would you call it a psychological war? The day after the pagers exploded, people were afraid to turn on the air conditioners in Lebanon because they were afraid that they would explode. So there is real fear.

Was that an intention? We want them to feel vulnerable, which they are. We can't use the pagers again because we already did that. We've already moved on to the next thing. And they'll have to keep on trying to guess what the next thing is.

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There's been a lot of talk about stopping the flow of illegal immigration and drugs from Mexico. But few people are talking about another crisis at the border: guns. Specifically, American guns. An estimated 200,000 to half-million U.S. firearms are smuggled into Mexico every year, part of what's known as the Iron River.

Mexico says those American guns are responsible for much of the cartel violence that's plagued its country. And now it's taking an unusual approach to try and stop it. It's suing. The government of Mexico has filed lawsuits in U.S. courts against a handful of gun stores and one of the largest gun manufacturers in America. It believes damming that Iron River might also fix some of the problems that plague the U.S.

If you think fentanyl overdoses are a problem, if you think migration across the border is a problem, if you think the spread of organized crime is a problem in the United States, then you should care about stopping the crime gun pipeline to Mexico. And you need to stop it immediately.

its source, because all those problems are driven by the supply of U.S. guns to the cartels. Jonathan Lowy is an American attorney who's been battling the gun industry in court for 25 years.

Mexico asked Lowy to help devise its strategy to cut off the gun pipeline after one of the deadliest chapters in the country's history that culminated with this. 2019, Mexican armed forces captured one of the most wanted drug lords in the world, Ovidio Guzman Lopez, the son of the former Sinaloa cartel boss known as El Chapo.

In their custody was the man U.S. prosecutors say was largely responsible for the massive influx of fentanyl in the United States. But what should have been a turning point in the war on drugs turned into a deadly five-hour gun battle with 600 cartel gunmen.

That is a .50 caliber belt-fed rifle sourced from America. The cartel doused soldiers with gunfire, took hostages, and blocked entrances to the city, burning vehicles. Outgunned and hoping to end the bloodshed, Mexico's president at the time, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, ordered Guzman to be released.

This past March, we spoke to then-President López Obrador in Mexico City. Homicides and cartel violence soared during his six-year term. We were surprised who he said was partly to blame. Where is the cartel getting their guns?

From the United States. We have confiscated, in the time that I've been in government, 50,000 guns of high power, of high caliber, 50,000 guns, and 75% of them from the United States.

Which is why, he said, his government was pursuing two civil lawsuits in U.S. courts seeking $10 billion for the damages U.S. guns have caused in Mexico. The first, filed in 2021, included U.S. gun manufacturer Smith & Wesson and one of their wholesalers,

The other filed a year later against five U.S. gun stores for what Mexico claims are, quote, reckless and unlawful business practices that supply dangerous criminals. Is it the U.S.'s responsibility to stop guns from getting in the hands of the cartel? Or is it the Mexican government's responsibility to keep the guns out?

Of both. Of both governments. But there has to be cooperation. You cannot sell weapons to just anybody. Like the U.S., Mexico's constitution grants citizens the right to bear arms. But unlike the U.S., that right comes with a long list of restrictions. There's only one gun store in Mexico, in the middle of a heavily guarded military base in Mexico City. We were allowed in.

But before customers can enter, they have to show proof they've passed psychological tests, drug screens and extensive background checks. The store sells about a thousand guns a month, mostly shotguns, small caliber rifles and handguns. What civilians can't buy here are the weapons the cartel favors. Those are not legally sold anywhere in Mexico.

Cartel's favorite weapons are weapons of war. Belt feds, .50 caliber rifles, guns that you can shoot from a mile away. The more expensive, the more powerful, the sexier they think they are. It's a trophy. It is a trophy. Tim Sloan worked for the ATF, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, for 22 years. His last assignment was running the ATF's four field offices in Mexico during some of the bloodiest years on record. It

Part of his job was tracing the guns recovered at crime scenes. In 2019, one of those scenes was inside a cartel ranch near Guadalajara. There was dead bodies everywhere. There was a 14-year-old girl chopping up bodies. And so there were 55-gallon drums with body parts in them. It's something that the human mind can almost not understand.

comprehend or fathom. And all the weapons in that house came from the United States. All of them. Every person there was murdered by a firearm purchased in the US. And so it made a very lasting impression on me.

Sloan says most of the guns the ATF traced in Mexico were sold directly to traffickers, or to so-called straw purchasers, someone who buys a firearm on behalf of another person. In this case, Americans buying guns that ultimately end up in the hands of the cartel. What did you learn during your time about how the cartel was getting these guns from the United States into Mexico? Well, I mean, it's pretty easy, right? So straw purchasers,

You know, you're offering a 23-year-old girl in Arizona $4,000, $5,000 just to go into a store and buy a gun for you? She's going to do that. A lot of people are going to do that, especially if they have any addiction problems, but no criminal record. Can you send a 24-year-old to go buy an AK-47? Oh, as many as they want. Five? Five hundred? They can buy as many as they want, as long as they're not prohibited. And how do they get them into Mexico?

Well, that's the easy part. Just drive across the border. That porous border works both ways. Over seven years, the ATF traced 50,000 American guns recovered in Mexico to gun dealers across the United States.

But Mexico's lawsuit names just five dealers from one state, Arizona. In Mexico City, attorney Alejandro Solario spearheaded the lawsuits for the Mexican government. We believe they're liable for actively facilitating the trafficking of firearms that empowered the cartels, the fentanyl crisis. A cartel without firearms

It's just a gang. The five gun shops that you've named in Arizona, how did you choose those five gun shops? It's based on who do we believe are the bad actors in this dynamic.

It's difficult to know which gun dealers could be bad actors because U.S. law prohibits the ATF from publicly releasing specific gun trace information. I'm with the ATF National Tracing Center. But 60 Minutes reviewed internal ATF and Mexican law enforcement documents.

According to the documents, 566 guns recovered in Mexico over a four-and-a-half-year period were traced back to the Arizona gun dealers named in Mexico's lawsuit. And nearly 200 of the guns came from one dealer, MOAZ, near Phoenix.

Virachart Danger Murphy is the store's owner. We sell guns here legally. Murphy declined to be interviewed by 60 Minutes. But after Ammo AZ was named in Mexico's lawsuit, he posted this response online. If we were actually doing something illegal, ATF, FBI would have already shut us down and I would be in jail.

The ATF has said a crime gun trace does not necessarily indicate gun dealer wrongdoing. If you're a dealer and you have reason to know that that person is a straw buyer or gun trafficker, it's your legal obligation not to supply them with guns.

Jonathan Lowy, who is Mexico's co-counsel, has litigated gun cases in more than 40 states. The gun shop owners we spoke to said, look, I'm running the background checks, I'm filling out the paperwork, I'm doing everything that I'm supposed to do. Isn't that enough? Absolutely not. The dealer's main responsibility, in my view, is to pay attention to indicators, to see if the person standing in front of them on the other side of the counter is guilty.

a potential criminal or supplier to the criminal market. Gun retailers say it's really hard to know sometimes if somebody's a straw buyer, right? That they come in with a good cover story and you have to believe them.

It's pretty obvious. I mean, you see these multiple sales of AR-15s. You see these large cash payments. You see these persons coming back to the store every few days or every few weeks. I mean, these are not normal buying patterns.

There are more than 75,000 licensed gun dealers in the United States, twice as many as U.S. post offices. Jonathan Lowy says most of those dealers are acting responsibly. About 90% of gun dealers sell zero crime guns.

I mean, that is a great mark for the gun industry. That shows that if you pay attention to these obvious indicators of trafficking and straw buying, you can actually stop supplying crime guns. The problem is these bad actors, and there's no good reason why manufacturers don't say, "Look, if you're selling our guns, use best practices."

Which is why Mexico filed its other lawsuit against gun manufacturer Smith & Wesson. Under U.S. law, gun makers have typically been shielded from liability when one of their guns is used in a crime. But Mexico is arguing the manufacturer is aiding and abetting gun trafficking to the cartels. In court, Smith & Wesson called that allegation not true. They did not respond to our request for comment. How

How can you say manufacturers are responsible for anything when there are so many steps in the process between the time that they make it and it goes to the retailer and then maybe it's sold to somebody else or resold? How can you trace it back and say it's the manufacturers? When manufacturers make the decision, we're going to sell guns through dealers no matter what their record is, no matter how many crime guns they're selling.

You know, that's on them. You say they know that the guns are going to the gun stores that are bad actors. How do they know? Well, manufacturers and dealers and distributors all get trace data. That is, when law enforcement recovers a gun in crime, they determine its commercial history. And every seller and every point of the chain knows that that's a gun that they sold that was recovered in crime.

If Mexico's lawsuit is successful, it could open the door for more lawsuits, foreign and domestic, against the gun industry.

Earlier this year, gun manufacturers successfully petitioned the Supreme Court to review the case. They argued they could face years of costly litigation by another country that's trying to bully the industry into adopting a host of gun control measures. Three years after the deadly battle that ended with his release, fentanyl drug lord Ovidio Guzman Lopez was finally recaptured in Sinaloa in 2023.

His arrest sparked another gunfight that left 10 soldiers dead. The violence continues today. In the last four months, cartel infighting has killed more than 500 people in Sinaloa. According to documents obtained by 60 Minutes, 47 guns were seized after Guzman's capture, including an AK-47-style rifle traced back to one of the defendants in Mexico's lawsuit, Amo A.Z.

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In 2021, jazz vocalist Samara Joy graduated from college. Months later, she released her first album. Now, she has three. She's won three Grammys and is up for two more for her latest Christmas release. Talk about joy to the world! She has sold out concerts all over America and Europe and is lining them up in Asia and South America.

Music critics are comparing her to jazz royalty Sarah Vaughan and Ella Fitzgerald. Not bad for what she calls an accidental career. We caught up with her Christmas tour, singing "What Else?" ♪ Children to the world ♪ ♪ Children to the world ♪ ♪ The Lord is come ♪ ♪ That earth received her King ♪ ♪ And every heart ♪

You may know Samara Joy as a jazz headliner, but come December, she's just one of the McClendon family. This year, her foray into Christmas music scored two Grammy nominations. It's been a whirlwind few years. I don't know where my man is. Where can he be? What is he doing? I've been asking questions.

She's as surprised as anyone at her head-spinning success. After all, much of the jazz she sings was last popular a half century ago. But with a voice as limber as a gymnast, she's given the old standards a cool new gloss. Don't let him in. Don't do him.

Hard to believe that jazz was something she sort of stumbled upon. Freshman me had no idea that this was in store, okay? That three years after graduation I would be standing here before you like this.

This was a homecoming, the first time Samara Joy had returned to Purchase College in New York where she studied jazz. It almost didn't happen. She told us it was a toss-up between business or music.

Well, one of your professors told us that when you showed up for your audition, that you only had one song prepared. I was like, this is the only jazz song that I know. He allowed me to sing a hymn, too, which was very nice of him, very kind of him. But that was what I had to offer at that time. So what was it that pushed you on that path? I never wanted to regret it.

I felt like I could always, even if I was in school for music, I could always get another job. But I just wanted to prioritize it first. Worked out. Worked out. I'd say so. She recorded her first songs in college with help from her professors and posted them online. Soon, she had a record deal. Critics say she sings like an old soul.

But when she got her first Grammy nominations in 2022, she went full Gen Z. Sharing the moment with millions online. You danced, you shouted. Yeah, in New York, nobody cared.

Nobody cared at all. Like, just another Tuesday to them. And then... Samara Joy! She won both, including the Grammy for Best New Artist. Oh, my gosh. I can't even believe. I've been watching y'all on TV for, like, so long. So, to be here with you all, I'm so, so grateful. Thank you. Thank you.

So where are you keeping all this golden hardware? They're with my parents. They knew you wanted to do this? Yeah. And my dad, you know, he's a singer and a musician. My grandparents were singers. And my aunts and uncles, music is a part of my family. It's an integral part of how we express ourselves and share, you know, love for each other. So there was no way you were going to be an accountant? Nope.

Joy celebrated online, too. Her Instagram and TikTok accounts are pulling in a younger crowd, a rarity in jazz. They come for the ride and stay for the music. Now, with a bigger band, Samara Joy's third album, Portrait, is her most ambitious yet.

There'll be no more blues, nothing but happiness when we settle down. There'll be no more blues, nothing but happiness when we settle down. There'll be no more blues. She's writing her own songs, drawing inspiration from the jazz canon of the 1940s and 50s. And you're how old now? 24. Oh gosh, I just turned 25. I forgot. Okay.

What do you think when you hear yourself compared to Sarah Vaughan and Ella Fitzgerald? When I first got to purchase, Ella and Sarah were the first people that I listened to. They're part of my fundamental, you know, core and fundamental foundation. How do you make Ella fit you? Listening to her and listening to all of these singers, I feel like it allowed me to shape my idea of what my role could be as a vocalist, not just...

learn the melody, sing the melody, and that's it. But you really have to think like a musician and open your ears to what's happening around you so that you can contribute to it and interact with it. Her voice is going to be remembered for a long, long time. Christian McBride is a world-renowned bassist. We met him at Minton's Jazz Club in Harlem. McBride told us Joy is a once-in-a-generation talent. He first heard her sing in 2019. He was a judge in a competition she had entered.

When a heart is so... And in comes Samara Joy. Yes. And you're going, what? We see this young woman with this voice. She had such a mature sound and a way of having you believe what she was singing. We're like, huh? Who...

Who's grandma's in that little body, in that young body, you know? She was born Samara McClendon. Joy is her middle name. But she'll tell you the McClendon name is her secret power.

Her grandfather sang with the acclaimed Saveettes, a gospel group out of Philadelphia. Her father toured with gospel superstar Andre Crouch. Gospel was the lifeblood of the McClendon household. So how does gospel fit in with your music? It's an inspiration and...

an influence that will never go away in my voice. And I don't want it to. It's been a part of my life and in my ears and in my voice for so long that it's just an innate part of who I am, I feel like. And it just reminds me that this is for a higher purpose. Left alone

Christian McBride told us Joy's gospel upbringing gives her voice an emotional depth not all jazz singers can muster. In jazz, you get points for being smart. You get points for being creative. You don't always get points for tapping into the emotional pool. And I find that all of my favorite singers who come out of church, Sarah Vaughan being one of them,

Aretha Franklin, obviously, all the way down through somebody like Samara. There's that little thing. They can get here quicker, you know? You grew up with R&B and gospel, and you could have gone in that direction, but you chose to go toward jazz. Why? If anything, I kind of felt at home with jazz, you know? I felt like I could still be myself while I was learning about all of this new language. I could still...

absorb it, and then apply it in my own way. She was raised in a close-knit family in the Bronx. So how do you know a McClendon? Give them a mic.

It's a family joke, but everybody sang all the time. Joy's father told us his daughter was always experimenting. It's Christmas time in Hollis, Queens. Moc and chicken and calla greens.

or mimicking artists on the radio. So when Tony McClendon joined us, we had to ask. So I understand that you two are pretty good at car karaoke. Oh, yeah. Can you give us a little taste? Okay, so we did go to the Stevie Wonder concert. And on the way home, we were singing along to one of my favorite deep cuts of Stevie. Mm-hmm.

♪ In me trying to find my whereabouts ♪ ♪ What shall I do ♪ See, if another thing about McClendon, we don't remember the first sentence. We met more McClendons as part of Joy's Christmas tour in Morristown, New Jersey. Where she was joined by her dad, her cousins, and an uncle. So very nice to know you.

No one is more pivotal to the McClendon family than its 94-year-old patriarch, Elder Goldwire, Joy's grandfather. He told us he was in awe of her. And you just know what happened next. But nothing prepared us for the power Elder Goldwire unleashed on stage. His frailty vanished.

The McClendon legacy looks to be in safe hands with Samara Joy.

She may not have planned for a career in jazz, but she told us she thinks she'll stick with it. Now, the last minute of 60 Minutes.

Tonight, the last minute of 60 Minutes features more of jazz singer Samara Joy. A three-time Grammy winner, her Christmas release is nominated for two more. Our small gift to you is more joy. ♪ Christmas time is here ♪ ♪ Oh, that we should always see such spirit through the year ♪ ♪ That we should always see such spirit through the year ♪

I'm Sharon Alfonsi. We'll be back next week with another edition of 60 Minutes. Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah. If you like this podcast, you can listen ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a quick survey at wondery.com slash survey.

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