cover of episode NFTs and DAOs

NFTs and DAOs

2021/9/30
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Episode Summary:

Guests:

David Sun Proof of Beauty Studios)

Meet The Hosts:

Brian Moir

Solidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012

https://twitter.com/moirbrian )

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross)

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara)

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Unedited Transcript

What's up zinger nation. My name is Logan Ross, and this is moon or bust your home for all things, all coins and defy. I am coming to you live from Benzinga headquarters in beautiful downtown Detroit, Michigan. Today, the crypto markets are a little bit quiet, but the NFT markets are hot and we'll be covering.

All as well as talking to our friend David's son from the NFT project, proof of beauty, this is a sweet one. You do not want to miss it. Uh, so get out your wrapping paper and put on your best cologne. Cause we're about to learn about proof of beauty's London gift and the London nightclub Dow. Okay. That's why you need your best Cullen in case you were wondering, I am joined today by defy developer, Brian Moore and master of margin, Ryan McNamara.

How y'all felt. Doing good. That was a wicked intro. Logan who a, uh, I think it was the master of margin who wrote that one a hundred percent. How are you doing Logan? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for finally asking. Uh, but I want to know how y'all are doing in the chat. Uh, so let us know, drop a comment right below the like button, uh, Let us know what projects NFT or crypto you are looking at this week while you're down there.

The first link in the description is the Benzinga crypto separate YouTube channel, where all the hot crypto clips will be posted. Uh, also join our telegram for a twenty-five percent off on the sick Buhner bus swag. You can get. BTC had doge hat, whatever, whatever team you're on, whatever you're feeling, uh, you can get 25% off by joining our telegram.

It's that easy? Uh, also we just launched a brand new landing page for moon, our bust with a moon or bust game. Yes, that's right. A game. You can go vote moon or bust on all of your favorite tokens. Uh, the link is in the description as well. So make sure you check it out, go drop your votes and let us know how you're feeling.

Make sure to connect with us on Twitter and our guests as well. All of that is linked in the description below. Um, but with that out of the way, let's get into the news. So I say we start off today talking about Budweiser, uh, buying a Tom Sachs NFT and the beer dot E E N S domain name, uh, Ryan, what do you think about a separate a second company coming into the NFT space, especially the PFP space, uh, after visa bought that crypto punk.

Yeah, I definitely think it's really interesting. And it seems like visa might've been more of a marketing play. I think they put it really well in their tweet, talking about how they, they they've collected financial instruments through the past. So I thought that was really cool. But Budweiser, I think is a little bit different because not only did they get, like you said that Tom sex, rocket factory NFT, but they got ENS domain name, which I think is really.

They actually got to, so they got beer dot Ethan. They got beyond beard at youth. So I don't really follow Budweiser much. I'm not really sure what that beyond beer dot eats would be used for, but yeah, who knows maybe they have something else in the works, but I definitely think that this could really push up the ENS market.

There's probably more speculative investments with these shorter domain names, kind of like the.com bubble. And I think it'll be really interesting to see where this all goes. And if more companies start buying dot youth domain, Not to mention they bought it for 30 eith. Yeah. It was like a hundred thousand dollars.

I wasn't saying that's really cool. Uh, so I don't know. I haven't heard yet, but we saw visa went through a third party to, to, you know, facilitate their transaction. Um, but did buzz, did Budweiser use a third party or did they buy east to do this? I do you guys hear about it? Oh, I didn't do my research on that.

And neither did I it's like, you have to look in, if you guys know, drop a comment and fill us in, uh, otherwise we'll try to figure it out for next time. Um, but yeah, it's cool to see that further adoption. I think that visa might've knocked over the first domino in a long line of corporate NFT plays. Uh, so we'll keep our eyes on that going forward.

Uh, in other news, uh, crypto markets are not doing a whole lot. I'll I'll share coin market cap with you guys here. We could just take a quick peek over the market. See what's up. See what's going on. So we got BTC hovering around 49. Again, we got east back at 3,200 car dynos holding steady, uh, looking for $3 again, soon Binance coins.

The one that's ripping today. That's about it. We've got polka dot. Let's see. What do you guys have on your radars today? Anything in particular? I'm just glad Binance is above 500. Again, I bought, I put some more into my, um, rebalancing and change my values. So I added a lot more BNB when it was at two 70, I mean, uh, four 70.

Okay. Breaking even there. For sure, good day, Mike, you want to let us know what crypto is you're looking at. Maybe we could talk about, um, uh, that goes to everyone else. We got Gavin, Gavin Newsome, good old Gavin, uh, is looking at car Dano. Maybe we'll pull up that chart for a second. Cardona was up 30% on the seven day that is thick.

Uh, and you know, it's in price discovery. Reaching those new all-time highs. We're look for that to continue here shortly. Uh, yeah, let's see. The market cap is $125 billion. That's insane. I guess that's the fully diluted market cap. Maybe it's closer to the, to this number here, the 89 billion still either way.

Ridiculous. Uh, and it's probably only going to get bigger throughout the next couple of months. We will keep our eyes on it for sure. Um, our well about the, um,

The vice president of the global brands of Budweiser, um, their parent company, uh, enhance or Busch InBev said that they're, um, investing in a new NFT media shop run by Gary V. So there are jumping full, full, full in the deep end on this. They really capitalize on the new booming again, booming market, which is pretty cool.

There you go. Another thing I wanted to point out, uh, chain-link Oracle's went live on Solano today. That is pretty cool in my opinion. And I like how chain-link is working with all these different blockchains. Uh, they, they have really got it figured out. Um, okay. But let's jump back to the, to the NFT space.

Maybe we should just talk about proof of beauty, get that going. Or do you guys have any other projects you want to talk about? Really? We should rip her Rooney right? To proof of beauty. All right. Rip Rooney. We shall so back again today on Muno boss is our good friend David's son. David worked on the zero X protocol helps create the macho Dex aggregator.

Uh, and now he started his own NFT project known as proof. Beauty proof of beauty turns blockchain transactions into beautiful pieces of NFTE art. And they recently launched a new limited collection called the London gift that David is here to tell us about. David welcome back, man. How are you? Good, good.

How are you guys doing great. We are happy to have you on to talk to us about London. Uh, we had you on earlier this summer and the audience loved it, uh, for anyone who missed the last episode, um, maybe could you just fill us in on your background, how you joined the crypto space and what projects you've worked on so far?

Yeah, I mean, you already kind of. Summaries, I'm going to fill in the gaps there. Uh, I joined in 2017 during that ICO bubble lost a good change of money during the bear market, uh, but decided to stick around and join zero X protocol as an engineer. And, you know, it was building infrastructure for what is today's defy.

Um, and then at T marketplace, uh, things like what you like the technology, but open seat. It was very much so inspired by, uh, zero X protocol. But, yeah, so a bit the NMT bug, when crypto kitties slow down the eat market, um, back in 2018 and I always wanted to do NFTs, um, and provability kind of was a side project and soon became a full-time endeavor.

And haven't looked back since. I love it. Uh, so before we talk about London, let's do a quick recap, uh, about proof of beauty's first collection, the hash collection. And if you want me to pull up any part of the website, just let. Yeah. Um, I think the best, uh, I guess demonstrator of the project probably will be hash dot POB that studio slash explore or explore page.

Um, yeah. So, uh, hash is the project about collecting history about collecting transaction history, um, on the theory of blockchain, uh, what do we mean by that? Well, it's, uh, you know, We historically, you know, uh, have always collected, uh, Pictures. Uh, we actually tell history like just general history via, uh, arts.

Right? We have oil paintings of the French revolution. We have a war photography of the Vietnam era. We did that, but just the more crypto native way, which is using NFTs as the. Painting that represents a moment of history, uh, on the blockchain. So, uh, you can feed it a transaction, right? Any Ethereum transaction, it could be your spirit first transaction, icky hack.

It could be the largest, it could be the visa sale, right. Or it'll be the purchase of the crypto punk. And then we take all the information within that transaction and. A piece of art, right? Um, and this piece of art, you can also add a title description to kind of describe it. There's a whole lot of interaction you can do there.

Right. And that's kind of a way of telling stories, right. In a very crypto native way. And then there's been a pretty lively, secondary market. People are speculating on what history is very valuable. Right. Um, Yeah, that's, that's hatch. It's kind of like a project to make collecting history, telling stories about crypto fund, hopefully.

Um, and, and, uh, engaging. Yeah, this is awesome. Um, so right now I'm looking at Jay Z's crypto wallet addresses, is that. Uh, I think so I started way, way, way back. I started here. Uh, I found these featured collections. Wait, was it? No, it was down a little bit of login a little down. So Sean Carter right here, view Jason.

Memorable moment. So what you guys did is you found Jay-Z's wallet addressed, found all the transactions and then use their algorithm to turn these into pieces of, of beautiful NFTE art, uh, that we could, I can mint right now for 0.08. Yeah. So these are like unclaimed transactions as, um, But, yeah, so like, just to kind of clarify, the key rule with hash is, uh, one transaction, one MTV.

So if it's the minted, you could only buy it on the secondary market. Right? So there's like this race to the bottom where, you know, when the Lendon hard fork happened, everybody wanted, wanted the very first transition. After the hard fork. Right? So, um, this kind of a fun competitive game at play, um, you know, uh, with a lot of these guys trying to get the best parts of the history.

Hmm. So I'm just pulling up ether scan here, looking into this NFT transaction, the first, uh, seven to one transaction on Jay Z. His address. I'm wondering if this is the punk. It doesn't look like it was, it could have been a transfer from somebody to him, I think. Very cool. And then we have the first Eve inbound.

So what do you think this might. Probably just disguised when I'm in Coinbase and just loaded a crap load of, yeah. Dang. That's cool. And it's, it's still for sale. That's crazy. Uh, I have to pick that up after the show. No one swipe it from me, please. Um, okay. Let me take my screen off and pull up the next question.

So at the beginning of this. Uh, Ethereum successfully launched the EIP 1559 London hard fork. Uh, what is the significance of this in your opinion? Yeah. I mean, I think there's a lot of layers to this. Um, obviously the first one is it, it radically changed how gas, uh, how we carpet gas pricing and, and that, you know, I don't think we have fully realized the benefits of like, you know, lower gas prices from the IP 1559 heart, um, a change, but it definitely radically changes.

Pricings, right? Like there's, it's, it's a lot more predictable. It's, uh, you know, theoretically it's deflationary right. For Eve, which, you know, makes me more of a youth maxi than I was before. Um, you know, and, and that's really all cool. And. You know, men, a mask recently updated right. To support you. I think that 59 transactions and personally, I think the UX is a lot better just being able to see the price actively flash.

And then if you, and then being a lot more predictable with the blog, with like the timing, it's like, oh, this should be within 30 seconds, which now is what used to be kind of just. Shot in the dark. Now it's a little less of a shot in the dark. At least now you have a little laser pointer, um, to help you out a bit.

So that's very powerful. Um, but I think the repercussions of 1559 is it really demonstrates the power of utility and consumer use. I think a lot of other boxing's their political power is really constrained by their minors. Right? Whatever they say, you know, they, they own the hash power, right. The fact that you got P 1559, which perspec like on the perceptions, it's bad for minors as, as a part of their fees get burnt.

Um, the fact that this thing was able to pass with some amount of buy-in the minor side on the developer side on the adapt side, kind of really is I think tells how politically strong. That youth community is right. Being able to do something that is had a lot of controversies from the beginning. Right.

And that if that doesn't make you a little bit more bullish on youth being capable of upgrading itself, being capable of adapting itself to whatever future needs, uh, right. I don't think a lot of. Uh, blockchain and communities have yet to face these endeavors. I don't see a signal on definitely Bitcoin has its own struggles and usually it all is occurred to hard forks.

The fact that Eve was able to have no hard forks, uh, and just very easily kind of move over to this, uh, kind of contentious, uh, EIP. It shows a lot of the maturity of the technology stack and the community that's operating. And then that's, to me a very longterm. Bullets signal that, you know, The world is going to throw a lot of crap at each blockchain, but it seems that Eve has, uh, has bore through a lot of these, you know, through its history and seems more likely to succeed and whenever a new, um, issue arises.

Right? Yeah. Most definitely. Uh, I just kinda want to dig in here a little bit, cause I also think that this is the most significant thing. Uh, aside from the fee burning, it was being able to convince the miners to take less money, uh, and continue upgrading. This network, it shows that they are truly convicted.

They truly believe in the future of the network and they care about holding Eve. Long-term more than they care about their mining profits in the near term here. So, um, we're looking for Bitcoin to, to try to pull off a similar feat towards the end of the year with taproot, right? Yeah. I think that's coming up actually in a month or so David, do you know.

I'm probably the worst at Bitcoin since September. Yeah. They're pretty much trying to do a very similar idea. I mean, so David, I want to touch on what it takes to pull off something like this without a hard fork. Um, well, I'm not the best one to answer to this, to be honest. Um, I don't know all the nuances of core development on, on Heath.

Um, but I do know that. The difficulty bomb in place with a theorem, um, was a huge, uh, what do you call it? Political poker chip that developers had against the miners. It's, uh, you know, the difficulty bomb, the hash rate grows very fast to a place where the hash difficulty goes very fast to a place where miners are.

Unsustainably producing blocks. That's kind of like mutually assured destruction mechanic, and, um, developers gave themselves, I think the key to delay that bomb. Uh, so I think that played a part, but also I think miners are realizing just how much. Bye. And there was from dApps from, you know, from like just, uh, PR decks protocols from the NMT space.

It's like they don't, they didn't want to make themselves the enemy towards this humongous market that they're now, uh, sustaining. So I think there's, there's been enough political pressure just to, uh, say that we want to be part of the future instead of. Make a very contentious, like we're all making money, so it's all be happy, kind of a deal.

Very cool. Totally. So I want to jump back into proof of beauty because there has been a lot of new developments on it since you were on the show last, can we start by talking about proof of beauty's London gift and what it is? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, London as a project was a. Attempt to celebrate this hard fork.

Right? Um, it was, we wanted to build something that, uh, I guess, you know, hash was about recording history, right? It was about how do we document it's like the camcorder, but we wanted a project that makes sense. Right. We wanted a product that celebrated that history and we saw a great opportunity with this hard fork that like, look, we can create a great meme around it, create a great project around it and find a way to celebrate it.

Um, so that's what London that was, that was inspiration for London. Um, London started as actually an ERC 20 project. Um, it was an altcoin, um, but the key condition was you had a. Or if you wanted to get the London ERC 20 token, you had actually met at a very, very specific gas price on the specific gas price was 15.59 G way in celebration of VIP 1559.

So it, it threw people for a little bit in the ringer. It was instead of thinking about gas prices, just like if I pay a lot, I get my transaction in. Um, the protocol was actually like, Hey, I don't want you to pay on actually. I need you to pay less. To get the most amount of tokens. So it made people have to rethink how gas price works.

Right. And that was the whole point of the project because London was going to change how gas Spiceworks. So we wanted to project that makes you change how gas of works. Right. So, um, that created a very interesting, uh, uh, Community and mechanic right then that's why we called the Dow. The London nightclub Dow was people realized that you wanted to get a transaction.

That's so low on gas price. And on the blockchain, you had to do it at night. You had to do it on the weekends when nobody was, you know, using the blockchain. So people were like, this is the nightclub, right? Like this is the London nightclub. We got to do it at the night. And we're all going to start having fun and start flooding the blockchain with, you know, London transactions.

And that's that's, that's where that monitor came from the one, the nightclub. Um, but yeah, so, you know, you could have meant the London ERC 20 all the way up to the hard Hartford. Right. And right after Hartford, we gave it its first utility. You could buy the London gift and have tea, uh, which, which is about 8,000 of them.

Um, and don't wait to get them was you had to pay 1559. London tokens. Right. So if we didn't ask for eith, we asked for the ERC 20 token. Um, yeah, so that was a very fascinating experience because the first four hours of the hard fork London gift was actually the number one burner. Uh, um, and that, like, it was really funny to see when there were, there were, I think there was a Bankless podcast that was live streaming, the IP 50, 59 of that.

And then people were like, what the hell was this London gift that was topping it up for the first few hours of that podcast. Um, and that kind of, it was emblematic of that. Goal that we wanted to make noise. We wanted to make history. Right. Um, and, and we also actually have the honor of, um, the very first EIP, 1559 transaction on the theory of blockchain is a London transaction, like London gift transaction.

Uh, so that's another like, uh, and, and the funny part is that very transaction has been collected as. By the half community. Right? So you can see the, like the interplay that we're having with these two projects, these two collections, uh, which is super exciting and super fun to see on the day, uh, of the hard fork.

Um, and you know, I think for us, at least internally, it did everything we wanted it to do. Right. Which is make noise. Bring a community together. Uh, tell people about this great change through the hard fork, um, in a very crypto native way. Right. Um, and yeah, so now we have the London gift, um, It's been selling on open sea on the secondary market price floor has been all right.

Pretty good at 0.13 right now. Um, and, and, you know, there's quirky names for those and, and people have been using them as backgrounds for their crypto punks for board aids. Uh, there's all kinds of fun stuff happening there. Um, And yeah. I mean, you know, you don't have to really understand all this crazy history that I just explained to buy a London gift.

I hope that they're visually appealing enough. It's just like, you know what? I just want to own one for fun, right. Or own one, like an art blocks for speculation. Um, but yeah, like that's the history though behind the gift. So you're not just. Generative art and you're buying something that I think has a lot of embedded history in it.

And it's been my job to, uh, show that part of the project. So cool. How you went from documenting or like cam cording history, like you said, to making it yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Um, that was the goal with London and we were. Uh, scared that we wouldn't be able to pull it off, but I think we, uh, I definitely, I blew it blew all of our, um, uh, expectations out of the water when it, when it came out.

It's easy to think about that. The very first strings, the action on the new fork was your guys' project. I mean, what are the odds? I mean, it's a global thing. It could have been like. That let alone. That is enough to more people need to know that. Yeah. I think that adds a lot of credibility, honestly, to proof of beauty to have that transaction hash.

That's really cool. I had a quick followup question about London. How much were London tokens? How much would it cost to mint a London gift at the time of mint, maybe in easy terms and USD. Uh, I definitely won't have exact numbers here, um, to get London, um, since it was low gas price and you didn't have the pain to eat, there was a fair launch project.

Uh, we, we didn't pre mine anything. We didn't ask for any money for it. Uh, If you've minted at 15.59 G way, probably the London would cost you $4 for 1,559 of it. Cause it's, Ethan's cheap as 15.59 G way. Um, but I know some folks just because they were trying to get it, get it on a, on a T last minute they were trying to scramble in and get transaction.

Then they were like paying 60 G way. Um, but at 60 G when you only got like a hundred London, So they were actually paying a huge premium just to even get a little bit of London, which is ironic for, for how the gas market works. But I do know that the price served all the way up to like about seven to 10 cents a coin for London, just right up to the hard fork.

Um, and that was really amazing to see, because some of our early supporters of this project who minted, like millions of London were able to now profit, um, without even an entity coming out yet. Right. So they were able to sell their London for multiple Eve. Right. And, and that was, uh, Very different, you know, compared to gas wards that we're seeing with art blocks, with other NFP projects, where the miners reap the reward of their, of this huge FOMO, but we wanted a way to reward early supporters.

And I think London did that. Right. Um, I think at the time of minting, because I mean, the market's very thin for London tokens. It was between seven to 12 cents a minute. So if it was four and to get an NMT was 1,559 London token. So napkin math, it would be about 150, 150, $160. And the price floor was stabilizing on the secondary market around 0.0 8.09.

So that was about breakeven. I think. And now we're seeing that kind of rise as, as more folks are learning about what London is, London gift is. So aside from needing London tokens to mint the London gift, how does the token play into the ecosystem you guys are building? Yeah. Yeah. So that's a great question.

Um, after we released the London gift, All of that London that we acquired. Well, not we, but the Dow acquired is now part of it's like working capital, right? So it's like a weird way of thinking about it, right? Like most ICO projects, they release a token and then they save a portion of it for themselves.

We did it the other way we gave it all. And then we had to get, get it back in. All right. So, uh, the way we got it back in was the London gift and a T how we sold it. So about 13 million of the token, what is housed by the Dao, which is that we have a supplier 45 million of them. About 25% of the supply is now held by the Dao.

Um, it also receives 5% of the secondary market fees. So we have about a thousand eith of volume on London gifts. So now it has about 50 ease of capital. They can use to do things. Um, And the London token and the London gift, our governance power to the stout. Um, and, and we really gave it the directive that does Dow should continue to land the London experiment, um, and whatever that means, um, and the community has kind of grabbed it around.

This, this identity that we should be the Dow that creates history and celebrates history. So when, uh, the theory emerge happens, uh, uh, when he changed from proof of work to proof of stake, um, I think the London Dow is going to try to do something for that event. Um, but pretty much perpetuate this, um, the th the initial ambition of, of the London project.

Um, but just for. Historic events. And now that it's a Dow has a operating capacity to do it. And I know that a lot of other folks want the London token to almost be like a mid pass. So if you want to get into exclusive entities, you will need to own London tokens to get access to. So there's a lot of speculation on the value, but we didn't define a lot of value in the beginning.

We literally were just like, guys, you guys are getting a meme token. Like where are we going to be Frank with you? We haven't figured out any value for us yet. And the point is is that we're going to figure it out together. Right? Like, uh, and then, you know, still a lot of folks loved the idea, loved what the.

The, the story behind the project is, and now we're, you know, working hard to, with the community to build out value. That's really cool. Has the dowel deployed any of that capital yet on any projects or. Uh, not, not yet. We have a lot of great proposals in play. We have a bird mechanic that we want, that people want to introduce to the London gift project so that you can burn those entities together at different NMT.

Um, that's kind of in line with what EIP 1559 is all about. Running Eve. So they were like, we gotta burn love and gifts cause it's its own poetic to do so. Um, so there's that proposal kind of going through its process. And I think that would eventually have to, um, deploy capital to fund developers fund whatever's needed to realize that, uh, There's been a lot of work right now on boosting the LPs on the liquidity on London tokens.

So there's been a lot of great proposals, deploy capital and deploy London tokens into, uh AMMS to support the liquidity needed to sustain a doubt. Right. Um, so. That's been two main threads, but there's a lot of other random ideas that people have wanted willing to build there's ideas around the London.

Those you want to create a loaning group internally in the Dow where you can put up a, an, a T that you own as collateral, right. And you can draw money out and you can only get access to this. If you are London, dowel member, right. You'd be hold London token. So it's like a small credit, you know, Before London people.

Right? So there's a lot of good ideas. It's really just been like, we found a way to get a community get together in the community now. Well shit, we, we, we have money. We have intention. Let's realize it. And they're all very quirky, you know, excited, exciting ideas. So, ah, that's awesome. I have two quick questions.

I want to jump in with one. How do I join the Dow and two, how do I get London? Token? Yeah. Oh, you joined the London Dow literally just by owning either a gift or. 1,559 London tokens. Um, you can do more if you want to be a whale. Um, obviously that means more voting power, uh, but that's the minimum to get on our discord and access all the private channels.

Um, that, that is, uh, that is reserved for the London down members. And you can buy London on sushi swap. We have a AMM there. I wouldn't say that. Yeah, the slippage is amazing. Um, we're working on that, but you could definitely buy London gift on the open sea markets for, you know, a Flores 0.13 right now.

And that I did this morning. I picked up body, uh, in anticipation of this interview. I think it's so cool. So maybe do you want to just take a look at the features real quick? Uh, we could walk through them. So, uh, what are some of the ones that the community has picked out that you want to. Yeah, I, um, I think a lot of the community loves the view, go to the main, uh, filter and I can go all the way down to the unique, which is so most of these names.

Randomly generated, but then I took some time to make some funny names and I just watched Deadpool. When I, when I did these names, I wanted to fall breaking names like of these are pretty fun. Um, uh, so somebody, who's a pretty funny, I think light-hearted, it's supposed to make up a few pokes at the T space.

Um, um, can you show this for me last sold 108th for sale. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, these are really rare tokens, right? I guess NFTs. And there's only 30 of them out of the thousand 8,000 of them. And people have been trying to get their hands on these, um, And that's been, it's just been a fun, creative use name.

Then I know that the community had a great laugh, um, from somebody names. Um, um, there's just different commentary on, on crypto culture, on NMT culture. Yeah, they're awesome. So David correct me if I'm wrong, but these London gifts, they were generated on men, right? They weren't generated before these were actually generated before.

Um, uh, hash is not cause hatches at design concern. You know, we, we, we can't know what transaction and giving us until you gave it, you gave it to us, but right. For London, we took a page out of how board apes did its launch. Um, and they did it pre pre pre-built. So I saw you took inspiration from board apes, and I saw that on your website.

Can you go a little bit more into detail about that inspiration? Yeah. Yeah. Um, well I think when we clarify, clarify inspiration, it was much more of a technical inspiration as in how they, uh, built their in a T project to last a very, very, very long time for if not forever. Right? Uh, since the London gifts.

Project celebrating London to hard fork. It should exist as long as a theory exists. Right? So we had, we wanted to build a design constraint that this thing has decentralized as longterm as possible. And I think Bart apes has one of the better designs out there, uh, that allows her great rich artworks, but also, uh, storage, a lot of stuff on chain to allow you to maintain.

This is in fact a right NFT, that's pointing to the right metadata. So that's what I mean by inspiration is we, I looked at its contracts. We looked at it it's Providence design and would be, uh, figured out, um, uh, you know, a lot of great ideas there, uh, that we can build for wanting to gift. So I've been looking at art blocks lately and it looks like they have some similar type of projects.

Do you have any opinion on art blocks? Do you own any, what do you think about. Yeah. Yeah. I mean our boxes, uh, I I've, I've known him them when they were just on Rinka B, but when they were, does a test project, uh, in November last year, I don't remember. Um, yeah, I mean, I, I think the community is amazing. Um, there's been a lot of great noise and I think that what they're doing is lifting all that.

Generative art up, right? We're all rising with their, with what they're demonstrating in the market that's capable of being created. Um, I do think, um, as a project, there's, there's some genuinely good art. Um, I, I do think that some things I personally don't visually find appealing, but, uh, some of the work like the Cadenza pieces, like they were truly, I think, uh, amazing to me, uh, sub scape was really good.

Um, a lot of the work coming from. Keith is really well done. I really liked it. I remember when credenza was kind of quiet the market. Wasn't going crazy. Like it is now. I was putting up Teddy with offers and nobody was taking them. I was just like, darn it's like tennis is not allowed. I was like the only one dropping 10 offers.

And, and nobody took them and I'm kind of regret not offering more now. Um, um, but yeah, I mean, it did to do great things for the general market. I do know that they have some growing pains that they're working through with gas boards, um, and pricing out their new community members because of just how expensive now curated pieces are.

Our blocks factory is as well. Um, Yeah, I think they caught on a great meme, which is like this trading card kind of experience. Right. You pull a random and you, hopefully you get a great thing that such a, such a small supply. Um, and that's really awesome to see. Um, is that something that proof of beauty is interested in doing?

Um, not necessarily mainly because I think they've kind of figured it out. Um, and we don't really think that. Precisely something that we can offer that is very, very unique. I do think that the London gift, um, visually and its design was very inspired by how art blocks works. Um, so it is meant to try the art blocks community towards the proof of beauty ecosystem.

Um, but yeah, I mean, I, I think snowfall, the guy who. Um, our block is doing great stuff there. Um, and it's sustaining a good community there's downs now going on with their, some of their artworks, uh, only good things to say for them. And we're reaping the, you know, the windfall of the successful generative art project tidbit that I didn't know.

So snow fro fro is actually the guy who founded our. Yeah. I mean, he was, he was a one man army in the beginning that I follow him and I've been following him for a while. I didn't even realize that that's a guy who found it hard blocks. Okay. I know he owns a shitload of crypto punks, but Hey, now I know.

Yeah. So yeah. So David, can you tell us a little bit more about the, the London nightclub Dow? Um, I guess how does governance work on the platform? Is it a quadratic voting thing? Is it one token equals one vote? Uh, that's a good question. Uh, we have, um, implemented quadratic voting the snapshot proposals.

Um, I don't think we're in a place where governance is mature enough to put everything on chain and also. Gas fees or horrifying bad. If you have to pay $40 a vote, um, and $4, if you don't want to vote, um, or withdraw your vote. Um, so we're, so we have to do this option B uh, gas, this voting, um, when that's snapshot and it's quadratic voting.

Um, so we, we do have a lot of big whales and for London, there's a lot of guys with million dollar plus, well, a million London plays. So to kind of, even out the playing field, quadratic voting made a lot of sense. It does make sense. And those, those, uh, people with all that London, if I got the right contract, London is pretty up there now, compared to what 15, what you were explaining 1559, love them equal to in the beginning to get it.

Now it seems that that token price has gone up quite a bit, but I don't know if that's the right crop contract. I was looking on sushi swap, but I got kind of confused. Where I think I got lost and did a scam London. There's a SU there is a London. I, I think I know what you're talking about on Susan's slop.

I looked up London, there's a London, Tokyo. It's very priced well, and that's because it's the NFTA. Um, token it's presenting the price of the London gift, where does actually a different London, which is ERC 20. So I was confused on that and I don't know why they called the London, I guess, an a TX thing London as well.

They should have called one gift, whatever. Yeah, I think that is what I was looking at. But moving on from that part and kind of going into the general NFT space, where do you think that. What do you think the booming in the NMP popularity in, you know, industries and celebrities and stuff, getting into these and paying ridiculous amounts of money, but actually raising the value of, you know, just someone who has, uh, a normal, everyday NMT that they got, they found Twitter.

It got it for, you know, 0.02, either something, not a whole lot, but not. Too cheap, but you know, they got it. And now all of a sudden they're becoming millionaires because they had all these bunch. What do you think about all that stuff going on in this space right now? Yeah, I mean, uh, uh, I, that's a great question.

I know when I joined the DFI space, I fell in love with this ambition to, uh, its ambition, to make wealth equitable, to access. Um, and, and that was just this very fundamental idea that. If we make a protocol that this does not care who you are, you should give you the equal amount of access to, to all the financial levers that we can access to.

Right. As a participant, whether that means using compound without knowing what skin color, what nationality or whatever, um, in the, in a very, I guess, what do you call it? Realistic. More pragmatic view of that vision. I think, uh, defy you need assets. You need, you need a lot of money to really participate in a financially great way with, with these things, unless you're yellowing into like a thousand percent plus yields, hopefully you don't get bank run risk.

Right? You hopefully your token doesn't just tank. Right? So. As much as the ambition is there. It's it's I don't think we were seeing truly the fruits of the labor. Um, whereas an NMT is, I think we're seeing people capturing, um, you know, community is via, Anaptys capturing, uh, brand power or capturing reputability in a T.

And now they're able to sell these for a hundred, a thousand X to folks that need. Reputation that needs that very scarce resource. And it's creating generational wealth. It's creating a truly equitable world. It's given Eve the truly powerful reason to be at denominated asset, right? Like I've never in my life thought in E until not is right.

Like I thought everything in the U S dollar, like my, my personal accounts and his area on and everything it's in the east now. It's not an us dollar, which is incredibly powerful. Right. Um, and yeah. See that movement where early speculators are able to capture the windfall of this demand is, is amazing. I think we don't see this often with wealth distribution systems, um, in the real world, or even in really in DFI.

Right? I think the Unisource airdrop was very powerful, but folks were making $10,000 all of a sudden, because you need to swap, decided to do a distribution like that. I'm all for those kinds of things, right. It's definitely going to create a lot of FOMO and, and less, uh, well-intended projects will come in and these will eventually result in corrections in the market.

Um, um, when I think this is a very long-term bullish sign. People want, um, partis want to participate in this new reputation market that is being established by entities, this new, uh, content market that is established. Right. Um, and they're more than happy to come to the table with a anonymous address to participate.

Whereas before it was a lot more, you know, credit base, you had to participate, be institutions, be agencies or whatever, and they all take a cut. Right? So, yeah. So were you surprised when visa bought the crypto punk the other day? Uh, and what do you think is going to happen next? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I actually interned at visa when I was still in college, so I I've definitely seen.

One of visa is internally, but not all their teams. Um, I definitely was a little bit surprised that was visa, that there was a first one. I wouldn't be surprised that they were one of the few that were at the beginning, but I didn't expect them to be the first one. Uh, but I do know that their, I guess their assets team whoever's managing their wealth is a very, very.

Team and how they have strategically invested in a lot of different FinTech companies before and, and, and whatever the future of wealth is. They've been fairly on top of their game and, and this crypto punks investment, both in marketing stunt, but I think also a huge, um, like glass ceiling that they broke for.

Institutions that in fact, crypto punks, you know, the fact that they publish that said that versus buying a Bitcoin is very fascinating, right? It tells you that owning a crypto punk, you're not as something that appreciates in value. There's a genuine amount of reputational power, cultural power that you bought.

Right. Uh, Bitcoin spent 10 years building, right. For the Bitcoin meme. But crypto punks did in three years. Right. Or really didn't this year. Right. Because two years before you got about a punk for like, you know, like $5, right? Like. Yeah. If I could only go back. Uh, so speaking of going back earlier this year, we kind of saw the first, uh, little NFT bubble, uh, going on prices went crazy.

And then as the crypto prices went up, uh, people started moving their value into those assets instead. I kind of think that that while everything is, is like priced and Ethan open, see people are still looking at that USD value at the end of the day. Uh, and as Ethan goes up, do you expect the NFT space to kind of struggle and, um, you know, price, price, floors go down.

What do you think is going to happen as the price of Ethereum rises? It probably there will be a correction in the anti spaced and due to nominating the things that youth, when the newcomers are denominated in us dollar will create a clash. Um, right. Like for folks like ourselves, for myself, who, who, who, who has been owning for a while, uh, where we have acquired a youth at three digit numbers versus what it is now, um, uh, There's we're bound for a correction.

I think that's just kind of a natural inflows of, of the market. Um, I've somebody, or we had a conversation with somebody. We were like seven stages of hell, but the seven stages of crypto price movements, like you see moves Eve moves and then out coins and an entity starts to move. Like it's like a windfall of processing where wealth kind of just moves around and it flows back into the top level again.

So we're saying we're going to always see that. The thing has been denominated and it's, um, you know, there's gonna be a lot of new folks, but crap while your, or date is 130,000 us dollars, that's a year salary from, for a software engineer in the bay area. Right. Like that's, you know, and that's pre-tax right.

So let's. That's a lot of money. So do you think that you said the NFT bubble going to be comes after the altcoin bubble? Um, but we saw it in like early January coming, like before Bitcoin almost. And then now we're seeing it come again, maybe right before Bitcoin. Do you think it's before. Uh, I don't have any magic eight ball.

Tell me that I don't, I don't know what the sequencing is at this point. Um, I do think that Bitcoin's mimetic strength over the, uh, over to other markets is, has been weakening a little bit more and more. Um, but I mean, institutions are still buying a lot of Bitcoin. Right. And I think that's more than anything.

They bullish sign for Bitcoin as a store of value. So, um, I don't know the sequencing wall was changed. That's just how it, you know, if I were to predict that I would make, I would lose a lot of money. Why do you think that, um, in a T boom has happened again, like with board apes? Yeah. Budgie penguins and all of these different ones, he's either profile picture or, um, you know, these are these collectible NFT projects.

Why do you think they're all Boomi again? Uh, one, some I've heard is saying that it's the community is bringing everybody together, but I wanted to see as someone that's actually doing a successful project, why do you think this is, uh, taken off rapid fire? Like it is and what. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I think the above the bowl and March really needed a correction.

It was at a place where we were operating a lot of us, I think, in the dark, when it comes to price discovery to community building, then I think the correction did come in and people were calling it at the NFC hangover or whatever where capital inflows were were, were a lot slower. Um, at the time during that time, I don't think that if the space was not building right, we were all still.

Hard at work and because they're less noise, we were able to be a little less kind of fighting fires by the day we were more strategic and mindful of what we need to do. I can just speak on my own experience out in March when we were doing has still, or does the main focus like. Compared to what I know now about community building about price discovery about the token Nomics with NMT is like, I feel like I was a toddler now in March, right?

Like we didn't understand anything or I didn't understand anything. And, um, we had hash max then I believe, you know, there's other great projects. But, um, I think once the NFC hangover happened, we were just kind of, I think it was a powder keg. We were just literally waiting for like the. Spark, and then everything was going to come back again.

Right? It was just, to me, it was just as a matter of time for the bull market to come back. It was either in a few months, half a year or whatever, but, um, then if he sparked market works off the football lot of FOMO, right? Like, like a hedge fund goes buys and 508th of whatever, or buy the sweeps, the whole floor on crypto punks.

And. That wouldn't fall brings everybody over again. Right. Um, when people are making money, everybody comes and make money. Um, but there's been a lot of maturing between these two bear bull and bear cycles, which is insane for how fast the market has been moving. The fact that we've been able to grow with it.

Right. Like the fact that open, see now shows for price instead of average price, it literally showed average pride for years, right? From the beginning that opens the existed because they, nobody understood that floor price matter, not average price, right? Like it took us a bear, a bull market and a bear cycle realizing.

Actually the statistic that we want to be working towards. Right. And we have tools like rarity, sniper, Ray, already tools that allows people to speculate on how rare your entities are. Um, keep our, seeing the present power of the reputation that you can gain. If you own a crypto, pumpkin, that's your portrait.

Right? So, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's like relaying a lot of the good groundwork and we're also seeing a lot of great, um, infrastructure projects. Right. The fact that, uh, you know, that the open seat made like a billion, like how about a billion dollars of volume or whatever, and raise a hundred mil that puts a target on their back.

Everybody wants in on that. This is now right? So that means some of the most talented people are now in the market. Right. Not buying but building. Right. That's like huge talent draw that. And it teases simply haven't had until this year. Right? Like it's, I don't think we were able to, it was able to draw the best people.

Okay. It felt like a very small market or before January, right? This correction. I think quite a lot of people that stuck along. Right. So I like these because I think that the, um, the PFP or even the art projects are going to be here for a couple of years. But if you look back and you look at the tokens that even some that have been on or some of the past only like.

Three to five out of the past seven years are tokens that we know now, you know? And so, and that's just gonna be the same continuing with these NMT projects. As long as the Ethereum is on polygon, all these ones that they're on their own blog. They're going to be there forever. These tokens will come and go, but these crypto punks are going to be in museums.

Um, you know, they're already, they already are. So it's just really cool to see something like that with the longevity and the lifespan that these will have compared to ICO's and token projects. That'll just, yeah. So along, along with London came the, uh, background changed service, uh, which I think is really cool.

I've been seeing a bunch of punks and apes with proof of beauty backgrounds. Uh, so if you can maybe talk about, uh, how that came about and the network effects you've been seeing, I will show everybody how they can do it, uh, while you're explaining. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things about London and I'm certain that you guys have felt this just from me, rambling is it's a complex project.

It has a lot of history. Um, but we wanted London gift to have its own name. That's not just about history. And we wanted something about. Holds its ground for NFT speculators and just NFTE people in general. So, uh, we started to see people use London and hash as backgrounds for their, uh, uh, avatars. And we just thought that was the main, that was, um, that's how we're going to get people like crypto punks.

You know, quite know what the hard fork is to love London or to love hash. So we really wanted to seize that opportunity and create a great project that would grow the, grow that meme. And that was, you know, literally two weekends and I, and I, and nearly an all-nighter and we, uh, slapped together a pretty scrappy service that, you know, we hope that we'll propagate that story, right.

That, um, this meme, that London gift is a great background for. PSP projects. Yeah, for sure. Uh, I'm having a little bit of trouble selecting the, the 24 PX, uh, option for some reason. Uh, put your ape on there. I wish man. So yeah, I can't show you guys cause I don't have any of these other projects right now.

Um, but maybe we could talk about how, um, you've been adding projects. Have you guys like been in contact with, with these creators? Have you let them know, worked with them to integrate. Uh, for some of them, the communities have reached out to us for most of these, we've been just taking them by the signal.

Like people wanted this. We're like, okay, we'll add it. Right. Some that we obviously had ads just because they're blue chip, right? Like a Parkside that be very dumb and last not to add punks our board apes, like I own a board eight. Right. So I wanted to see my own selfish there too. Uh, cool cats. I'm a huge, cool cats fan.

So that was a really easy ad for us. Um, Yeah, we it's open source so people can just drop in and literally just add two lines of code. And what law you going to add your own, uh, avatar and the process? We do permission it, cause sometimes the result is. To be less than desired and something like Photoshop may work a little bit better and know we're not interested in recreating Photoshop.

So, um, when you had to restrict a few of them, but we've been collaborating with few communities like the crypto dunks, um, community. The derivative of the crypto punks project, um, we're working on a giveaway, right. Um, getting their community to, to use punks faculties, gift, get backgrounds, um, uh, the bowls on the block, the bears on the block.

We're really excited too. Right. We were trying to help them out. Um, but yeah, yeah, we, we it's been the case by case basis, but awesome. Uh, that's unfortunately really all the time we have for today. David, thank you so much again for stopping by. It was a great interview as always. I'm really excited to see what's next for proof of beauty.

Do you have anything you could share with us now? Yeah, I guess a half we have seasons, uh, which I'm not going to go too much into, but that's. Do generations of artworks, uh, where right now in season one saga, we do have a season two planned after season one sells out in season two. I'll just give it its name.

It's called Toshi. Um, and I think Toshi, if you had to think about what it means, um, can tell you what kind of history you were targeting with Toshi. Very cool. I'm excited for. Um, so yeah, w we will have you back on when that project launches, but for now, I just want to give you the chance, any shout outs you want to make anything else you want to mention to the audience?

The is. Yeah. Um, you know, we, we have a lot of great things going on. So following us, beauty, Twitter is going to be awesome. And if you go on there, we have a lot of other, Twitter's now managed by the community, not by us, for each, for all the doubts that we have going on. So that's been really amazing. You really want to follow the details of all this stuff, all the history that we're telling or making follow those Twitters, um, cause cause.

Yeah, you don't want to miss out on, um, I think some of the wacky things that we're doing for sure. Awesome. Make sure to, to follow those. Twitter's they're linked in the description below and so is the website. Uh, it is right under the like button wink, wink. Um, but yeah, that's it for our interview and our show today.

Um, David, thanks, Ryan. Brian, you have anything else you want to mention? No, thanks for coming on David. Absolutely. Awesome. Yeah, we'll see you guys Friday. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations)Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands)Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy)