Ease Anxiety, Increase Intuition, & Uncover the Spiritual DNA Hidden in Your Birth Chart, with Astrology Experts - The AstroTwins
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You can become more psychic? Yeah, you definitely can. As I started to look at charts, I felt that the symbols started to talk to me. I was having a psychic

reading of a woman whose brother had died. I described a painting that he did. It's in a dark place and he wants you to move it out of that place. Her brother committed suicide and had left a painting for her and she'd put it in a dark hallway unbeknownst to me. Those are things that a lot of people consider like, that's crazy. But then in like, in secret, you're like, well, what if, what if that's true? What if we're accessing things? What if we can loop back?

Do you have a remembrance as a child where you looked in the mirror like, what am I doing here? We find ourselves in situations and we don't know how to navigate. Our minds and our knowledge and our education doesn't help. That's when people start to grant, maybe I should look outside of this lens that I have because the other stuff isn't helping any better. The veil is the illusion that everything that we can touch, taste,

Feel, smell, or five senses is all that there is. I mean, it's understandable why people would walk around feeling that way, but there comes a point in most people's lives when an experience comes and you're like, there's something else, there's some divine force. Maybe I don't know what it is, but it's talking to me. It's trying to get my attention, whether it's through serendipities or just feelings.

Things that you know that you don't know how you could, or just a feeling, a moving feeling of connection to all of it. You just have that moment of oneness and connected to all. We need to repackage, rebrand the word psychic because it conjures up pictures of a storefront window charlatan

But the truth is the psychic realm is accessible for all of us. Anyone, anyone can tap into this. It doesn't matter how educated you are, how scientific, how uneducated. It's a universal consciousness that we all can access. We just get to it in different ways. Mayim, you are psychic. It's Mayim Bialik's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. Because you know she knows a thing or two.

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Hey, I just found out something astounding. Approximately 63% of those of you listening to or watching Mayim Bialik's Breakdown are not subscribed. We know you're listening and we know you're watching because of all of the awesome comments you leave telling us how Mayim Bialik's Breakdown is helping you lead a happier and healthier life. We love that. But

The best way to support our show is to subscribe. It's also the only way to get latest updates and to know when new episodes drop. So anywhere that you listen to podcasts and on YouTube, please subscribe. Hit the bell icon so that you know when a new episode drops. Thank you so much, and on to the episode. Hi, I'm Mayim Bialik. I'm Jonathan Cohen. And welcome to our breakdown. This is the place where we break things down so you don't have to. I never say that line, but things are getting wild this episode. Things are getting wild today. You know what I just noticed? What?

We've done over 230, almost 248 episodes. And every single time you introduce yourself, you still do the chair turn where you do like three quarters out and then you bring yourself in. It's my thing. I like it. If you were psychic, you would have known that that's what's always going to happen. Are you psychic, Jonathan? We're rebranding the word psychic because it has a negative connotation. But we are exploring intuition and

that is collectively available that we may all have access to. But mostly, did Beyonce consult with the A.D.U.T. twins, Ophira and Tali, to decide if she should marry Jay-Z? These are the astrologers to the stars. So many celebrity clients.

Ophira and Tali A. Doot are the Astro Twins, and they are the longtime resident astrologers for Elle magazine. They've written a ton of books. Their latest book is The Astrology Advantage, which I'm holding right here. They have been advisors to people like, oh, you know, Beyonce, Dua Lipa, all sorts of celebrities, also high-end tech people. CEOs and... CEOs. So many people consult...

with astrologers and in particular the Astro Twins, but it's not just about the planets. It's about your personality. It's about what the placement of planets is.

and stars and moons can tell you about aspects of your personality that you can choose to emphasize or work on. This is not about why astrology should work for you. This is not what this episode is. And it actually turns into a really, really deep conversation about how we can have access to things outside of our realm, use those things to our advantage to make better decisions about who we date,

what kind of work we do, how we parent, how we organize our home, and how we make even the most basic decisions day to day. One of the most fascinating parts of the conversation for me was the notion that we may have an intuition that we want to act or respond to a situation in a certain way. And what might be needed is actually bolstering a part of our personality that isn't natural to us, that that's what could help us succeed in any given moment.

I also want to say that one of the things that we pride ourselves on here is really highlighting the scientific basis of a lot of things that people may not think of as mainstream science or might not have access to. We talk about acupuncture, we talk about meditation, we talk about meridians, and we even talk about energy work. The goal here is not to convince you that astrology is a science. What we'd like to have

Ophira and Tali talk to us about is the ways that astrology has been constructed historically, what it can tell us about our personalities, and how other aspects of what we do understand about science can kind of be leafed in to our understanding of ourselves through the astrological lens. Ophira and Tali are going to talk about our charts in some pretty interesting detail. And there are some places that didn't quite align, but the

places that they did opened up a whole different understanding for me and Jonathan independently and also as podcasters. We cannot wait to share this with you. Let's welcome to The Breakdown Ophira and Tali Edut. ♪ Break it down ♪

Hey, so happy to be here. This is an episode that I do think people need to watch and not just listen to because you're identical twins and you both have sparkly eyeshadow, even though you don't live in the same city. And I think that's cool. I know we kind of did this together in our own, yeah, overlapping way. So do you two have telekinesis and do you communicate with each other psychically without the internet?

I love that. I think we kind of subtle, it's a subtle psychic connection, like candy bar cravings, nothing good. But we do, no, we will, our minds are on the same things a lot. And not just because we work together or we'll find out like,

We said the same thing to somebody that we saw on separate occasions. Word for word. Do you ever like text the person? You're like, oh, yeah, I'm doing this. And the other one is actually doing that very same thing that day. Yeah. That has happened. It does.

We have weird coincidences like that all the time. Well, I think it's kind of, it's very, it's a very interesting relationship that you have in that you work in the field of astrology, which is kind of predicated on understanding when you were born,

where you were born and the way the planets were in a particular position when you were born. And so for the two of you, not just because you're obviously identical, but this is true for all twins, if you are born effectively at the same time, the planets are in the same position, right, for each of you. And according to sort of astrological principles,

principles, this would determine certain aspects of your personality. So I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about, you know, obviously you didn't know that you'd go into astrology when you were kids, but now that this has been your career for decades, when you look back to the personalities that were each of you when you were kids, were there things that were kind of even more similar because of how you feel the planets were positioned and not just because we were twins?

Great question. Well, honestly, let me say something to the first part of your question, which is

even twins, the chart is so specific, the birth chart, that us being born a mere four minutes apart have a slight difference in our chart. Astrology is very mathematically based. So the wheel, the zodiac wheel, literally, it's almost like a dial going click, click, click. I knew she was going to say it.

I was beaming her, say it's like a dial. Oh, thank you. Well, good. So maybe we are telepathic. Yeah. So the dial that was in our heads. So I am a 9 degree, 37 minute Capricorn rising. Ophi is a 10 degree, 37 minute Capricorn rising. And there are moments when that does affect us differently depending on when a planet moves. So, yeah.

If we want to get all mystical with it, because of course, the math and mysticism, and you look at numerology and you bring that in, well, nine is...

the number of completions and spirituality and surrender. And 10 is more a one, which is a number of actions. So I do tend to be the more woo-woo twin. I went to Burning Man. I got married at Burning Man. I did yoga. Ophie is like the business twin. She's like, I'm the nerd who likes the binary code numbers. Yeah, the ones and zeros. So, you know, it's, there are just,

This is where you can really geek out with this stuff. It's very helpful to have both of those. We need a binary one. We don't have that. We do. Everyone, every team needs a binary. Just to sort of hit the skepticism button pretty early on in our conversation.

Um, is this the only thing that explains the difference in your personalities? Meaning if you take two twins, let's say that are born four minutes apart as you are, is that what determines, let's say, I mean, like, can you say, oh, this makes sense that she's the more

you know, businessy one and I'm the more woo-woo one. Couldn't that also be any other expression of genes or other things about you? Of course. Birth order, you know, nutrition in the womb, of course. Yeah. She ate all the placenta. I had to be in an incubator. Yeah.

Is that right? Yeah. Apparently. She took my nourishment away. No, look, this is how- But she had to go to Burning Man. I don't know. Right? I mean, we love skepticism. And honestly, we're skeptics too. Like we would never say, like we started-

Someone gave us our charts, her college boyfriend's 30-page booklet. And we just wanted to know how it worked. We're like, how the heck does this work? So we started with a data pool and we started doing all of our friends' charts. And then we...

You know, we still can't prove it, but we wound up getting obsessed with it. Now, the birth chart, that map of where the planets are when you're born, is kind of like your factory settings. But just as you would take a phone out of the box, you wouldn't leave the default three apps on it, you know, you just...

you know, we are always interacting with nature and the universe. So we kind of look at astrology as this base point, this baseline understanding, like you might have anxious attachment issues that can evolve out of those. The same thing with the chart. These are just

fundamental parts of your cosmic personality. But we all have the ability to develop consciousness and free will that makes it less of a sort of, oh, this is happening to me versus, okay, I'm aware of these tendencies. Even when you're malnourished in the womb because of your twin. I was hungry. Jeez, it's a long time in there. ♪

My Ambialics Breakdown is supported by AG1. The holiday season is starting. That's my favorite time of year to fall off my routines that are keeping me healthy. But that's why we rely on drinking AG1 for the past three years. Right now, AG1 is running a special Black Friday offer for all of November. AG1 is a daily health drink packed with nutrients to help alleviate bloating, support sustained energy, and whole body health.

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You're speaking a little bit to my next question, but if you had to describe the mission that you're on, you've obviously been in this line of work for a very long time. Why astrology for you two and how do you explain the mission that you're on to share this information? Yeah. It started with us like, let's see if this really works. Let's put your data in. This was in the 90s. I had a little piece of software published

My ancient Apple computer has

It's like, whoa, that is, whoa, that is you. And what we just saw was that people got this relief and they became relaxed inside. And we all know what anxiety feels like. So speak for yourself. I don't know. No Jew knows what anxiety feels like. But we were so we were we just but everybody has it. Of course, we know we so we just saw people like relax and and

It just kind of lasted. So I was like, if this is what does it, then great. And then it helped people with a lot of decisions and planning and self-understanding. So we just...

kind of kept rolling with it. Yeah, it's a tool. Our mission is to help people use astrology to plan and make decisions so essentially they can design lives that they love. And it's a great tool for that. Okay, so you had me at help me plan, make decisions, change my life. All right, so let's say I come to you

And I say, please do my chart. What information, and in particular, I want to talk about in The Astrology Advantage, you talk about kind of the formula that you use to sort of calculate what can really help determine a lot of aspects of your life, your career, your decision-making, how you build a home, how you establish relationships.

If I were to come to you and I would say, here's some facts about me, what kind of information is astrology giving me that allows me to literally plan and make decisions?

Yeah. Well, yeah, we just, you put in your time, date, and place of birth, and what you get is a snapshot of how the planets were arranged overhead in relation to where you were at your moment of birth on this planet. So that map and the angles that are measured between each of the planets on that map tell you some of your strengths, your challenges, and your tendencies. So you would...

You would get the basic kind of DNA of yourself, not the scientific one, but the spiritual, cosmic. And then from there, you could say, all right, my tendency might be to be...

uh, strong in this area. So maybe I'll play to that or I will tone it down a little cause it might overpower people. So it just gives you that kind of metric, like just like knowing your personality does. I don't know, Tali, you might have a better way to say that. Yeah. Well, what we did, no, that was, I mean, what we did with the astrology advantage, our book was take this complicated world

birth chart because in traditional astrology, you go, your sun is in Sagittarius, your moon is in Aries, Mercury, like each planet has

is kind of in charge of a different part of your life. We kind of, we think of the planets as the actors in the movie of your life. If their birth chart shows you the script to the movie of your life, the planets are the actors, the zodiac signs are the costumes they wear. So the sun is your main character, the way you express yourself in the world. And we've got a

a Sagittarius, we've got a Cancer here with you guys. But then we look at the moon, how your inner nature is, who you are in private. And so each one of the planets has a separate thing. Now that's a lot for people to remember. So what we did with the Astrology Advantage is we created an algorithm that takes 13 points of your chart. The sun, moon, your rising sign, the planet on the eastern, I mean the sign on the eastern horizon,

All the planets, Mercury through Pluto, it's still a planet in astrology. And then the lunar nodes, which are actually part of Kabbalistic astrology, they're where the eclipses were happening. So that's 13 points.

Put them in the blender and then we look at the breakdown of the elements, fire, earth, air, and water. And then the breakdown of three other things, the qualities. Each planet fits into one of those. The qualities are the cardinal signs, the innovators.

the fixed signs, the authorities we call them, and then the mutable signs, the mavens. So that I, the I am system, which we talked about in the astrology advantage works on those qualities. Cause you can really see if you're, if you're primarily cardinal planets, innovator in your chart, that means you're somebody who's very future forward. If you're someone who's primarily fixed or an authority, that's what you are. Um,

Mayim. And then if you're primarily mutable, you're a maven, which is what you are, Jonathan. Jonathan's a water maven, mostly water, and you're a fire authority. He's very slimy. So you get this archetype and...

That's a great place to start. So when you started kind of testing this out, you know, what made you kind of turn from novices of like, oh, this is a funny gift that we were just given to, oh, this feels like

accurate to this feels so accurate that we feel compelled to share this with people. Because I think a lot of people might look at the two of you and be like, well, that's a fun little hobby, but this is actually your career. And you not only have, you know, written and sort of been the face of this for a lot of media over the last decades, but also some very, very

high, you know, high powered and kind of high end celebrities really appreciate your wisdom and the attention that you give to sort of how you help people plan their lives and make decisions. So can you talk about sort of what what that shift was like from this is cool to, oh, this actually feels meaningful?

Yeah. Well, like many things, it was a quote-unquote accident. We didn't plan it. I was actually working at Ms. Magazine for Gloria Steinem. Our roots are in publishing, yeah, feminist and women's publishing. We had our own multicultural women's magazine in the 90s called Hughes. And Gloria found it, became an advisor, and then hired me when she bought Ms. Magazine back from a big publisher. Yeah. So...

But I would, you know, it was, I love Gloria and she was awesome, but working in the publishing business was not as much fun as it sounded on paper. So I'd kind of wander back to the copy editor's room, the freelancers, and just do little astrology readings for them for fun. And one of them ended up going on to Teen People magazine. I don't know if you remember that one from... Of course. I mean, what's better than People magazine than Teen People? Right? Yeah.

Well, exactly. The Teen People edition. And she brought us in to become their astrologers, which led to a book, which we're like, yeah, they gave us a column and it was like,

you know, early aughts money. So I think they gave us like $10,000 to write daily horoscopes. And we were like, okay, I guess we're professional astrologers now. So it just, that's how it happened. But that was 25 years ago or so. And the demand just hasn't stopped. We got a book deal. Then we started, um,

Having people ask us to do charts for them and teaching classes. We've led 120-person entrepreneur groups, year-long coaching groups, and help people start businesses using the IM system. So we've actually been testing that one out for the last five or 10 years, somewhere in there. And it just keeps on rolling that way.

In the early days when you started to share this information, you said that people started to be like, "Oh, that's right," or "That's true," or "Oh, I see myself in some way." Can you give us some examples of people

What parts of them were seen that way? How did it reduce anxiety? What parts of their life were they navigating? I think the moon sign was... I feel like everybody should learn their moon sign if they can. The moon is your emotional nature. And it's often the parts of ourselves that we only show when we feel...

you know, like we can let our hair down with people. Whereas our sun sign or even our rising sign, if you know your time of birth, comes out, you know, in the front facing part of your personality. But for us, for example, it was game changing. We're Sagittarius like you and I am. We're December 2nd. Our dad is actually the same day as you. Oh, wow. Yeah. Powerful birthday. Yeah.

But what we found out was that we have moon in Scorpio, which is a very different energy because Sagittarius is supposed to be outgoing and friendly, and we are. But Scorpio inside, we are actually also moon.

I know I was, I can speak for myself, like very hyper aware of everything going on and very set. Like I didn't know how to respect the sensitivity that I had inside of myself. A lot of, it would always come out in relationships as a lot of anxiety with like, which was so weird because I, you know, with friends, I was like, oh yeah, nope.

No big deal. But in intimate relationships, the Scorpio kind of abandonment, fears and possessiveness. And I was like, oh my God, what is wrong with me? But when I learned the Scorpio moon, how to work with that, it was like, I really do have to be very mindful, very demure about who I date because I am...

an attacher. I do want a deeply bonded relationship. And that's, you know, as 20 somethings, late teens in college, we're all like in the dating world, like playing, you know, and so with our friends learning their moon signs too, we were able to learn how to self-soothe, how to comfort ourselves, how to make better choices and

in love and also with our life decisions, with like our career paths as we like, okay, I want to do something different.

where I get to go a little bit deeper into the psychology of things with people. So that's also very Scorpionic. Can you give an example of, let's say, a Sagittarius with a different moon rising? Like what's some of the other flavors? Are there literally like 11 flavors of this kind of personality? There are. You can have your moon could be a hundred, maybe more than them. So the rising sign is something different. The rising sign changes every two hours. That's

the sign that each zodiac sign owns part of the sky. So whatever sign is on the eastern horizon, this degrees of the sky is your rising sun. So our rising sun is actually Capricorn, which is very...

why we turn everything into a business. Yeah. But you, well, do you want to talk about your chart? Just before we get to her chart, like what is a way that, for example, knowing part of your moon sign would help you navigate, for example, a job?

Relationships are kind of, I think, more understandable because you're like, oh, if I have a need for deep attachment from my Scorpio nature, then of course, I'm going to make sure that the person I'm with wants that level of depth. But maybe an example from, obviously, anonymously of people that you started to work with and they're like...

Because I think a lot of people are like, oh, either everything is predestined or, you know, how much is really controlled. And I think this is starting to help us understand more specifically, there are just ways in which, you know, you can know yourself better to then sort of be in the flow of the world versus pushing upstream. Because if your core nature is Scorpio or have a Scorpio tendency and you're trying to fight that nature, then obviously things are going to be much harder for you.

Right. Exactly. Sometimes you do want to manage it, but not fight it because you become aware that it's not working for you in all those situations. So I feel like the I am system, Ophie, maybe you want is maybe a better way to approach career. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we we have done readings when we do for many years.

C-suite execs and CEOs and CFOs. And it's funny, they almost seem to embrace it more readily than anyone, probably because they have so many decisions and so much pressure on them.

they see it as a tool a lot of the time. But no, that's a really great question because at work, we have to more hide things about ourselves and try to act like we're kind of one-dimensional, one-size-fits-all people. So...

yeah, the IAM system is definitely a way that helps people. But you can look at, for example, Mercury in the chart is how you communicate, how you receive information, how you learn, how you even need to concentrate. So we've helped people be like, oh, okay, well, maybe you need a different environment to work in to be productive. I just helped a CMO who had

almost no innovator in his chart. He was an authority maven. Well, he kept wanting to harp on like the past and be really, you know, and I was like, when you go into this meeting, what you need to do is the innovator energy, which was low in his chart, is focused on the future. And

I advised him to like lay out a plan because he was going in to meet the board and they hadn't done that great on their numbers. So he, but he kept wanting to like re-litigate things. And I suggested that he actually, um,

come in and say, here's where I see us going and take a more effect, you know, instead of, because sometimes our tendencies in our chart aren't the ones we want to lean into. Like,

some of those Scorpio moon tendencies. I didn't want to be the jealous girlfriend. So, you know, I had to learn how to be more of my Sagittarius free spirited side. So, but if you can accept and understand, I'm going to tend to be, you know, that's what we do with our clients. It's like, understand your tendencies, your knee jerk reactions, and then say, is this the best

to bring to the situation. Oftentimes it's not. Oftentimes learning your chart is the first step in breaking patterns. Because we're all here to evolve, I believe. We're all souls on an evolution. So how do we not get tripped up by some of our sensitivities too? And the chart can really help people feel seen and validated, but then not seen.

stuck in that rut, you know? So what I hear in that is your instincts, which we're all told to trust our instincts, trust our instincts. In the case of the CMO, his instinct was to go back and relitigate, but actually that's counterproductive. And what he really needed to do is understand that, hey, that might be my astrological tendency to want to do that. But what's actually going to work best in this situation is for me to embrace a quality

quality that I may have a low percentage of and bolster that to help me get ahead. Yep. We jokingly call it astro Ayurveda. But and that and you know what, I'm so glad you said that because that it it does fly in the face of that kind of

The common advice that you get of like, just be more of that natural. Well, that doesn't always work. You know, we have to if we all lived in bubbles, that would be one thing I think as twins, because despite me eating all the placenta, we have been in relationships since the womb. I was just hungrier, I guess.

But, you know, we understand we had our own language as babies. So tuning into other people for coexistence has always just been our only experience in life. And so I think it's fun to teach other people how to do that too. I like this idea of bolstering, of figuring out what strategy to use in whatever situation you're in. And

I believe that, you know, in life there is a flow to it and that we're given signs, but we don't always know how to read those signs because we may intuitively feel like, oh, wait a second. I want to make sure that everyone understands how we got here in order to move forward, which is I have that tendency. And sometimes that doesn't work because people don't want to understand. They don't, you know, they'll have different versions of the past and reconciling that isn't going to help you get to the next stage.

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Learn more at instagram.com slash teen accounts. Guaranteed. Why don't we move to Mayim's chart and get a sense, and I'm curious, Mayim, if there are times where, you know, there are things that

Like the CMO example, you may be like, oh, I want to do this. But you're also pretty good at auditing yourself and seeing where those tendencies come from. So I'm curious how this also reconciles with, you're deep into Enneagram, you're deep into psychotherapy. She has so many different modalities. So I'm wondering how it all fits together, where the overlaps are.

I love that you're embracing this as a scientist because it's not provable per se, but there is a large data pool to draw hypotheses from. What's your Enneagram, Mayim? I'm the...

I'm the emotional four. I'm the artist. And which is actually kind of interesting that with the I am system, I did not come up as that, but that's actually more of where I resonate. So I'm kind of curious. Yeah. So in the I am system, um,

you're primarily your chart is 53% fire so and then uh 46% authority the fixed signs which makes you the fire authority we call that archetype the protector an energetic guardian who has a strong sense of responsibility and will do everything to keep their inner circle safe which is

I'd say an accurate assessment of what we know of you. Yeah, I mean, you know, if you look at your whole chart, so I don't know if you knew this, but the Enneagram, each of them is related to a different planet. So it has astrological roots. So the four is related to Neptune, which is Pisces. And it is the artistic imaginative planet.

sign for sure, which you don't have any Pisces actually in your birth chart, interestingly enough. Well, your sun, moon, and rising, which we call the big three, are all in fire signs. And Jonathan's are all in water signs, funny enough. So like... Very slimy Jonathan. So you're a Sagittarius sun, Aries moon, and a Leo rising. So...

even though you are obviously the four creative dreamers, sensitive one, you put yourself up, you know, like what you see is what you get when you're all this like Sagittarius outspoken world, um,

focused on global issues. Your moon in Aries, that moon makes it very, like, it doesn't take long before you have a feeling and you're going to say it, which is probably where sometimes it may come across as emotional. Aries is the first sun. It's very hot and fiery. That rules your emotions and your instincts or impulses are really strong. Aries moons are, I think, the most sometimes emotionally aware, but also like,

super sensitive, like you need, I have a friend who's got misophonia. She can't be around. No way. You know, it's like you really pick up everything. So one of the first things that people should know about

you're using all the euphemisms so I don't feel bad about myself. What you're actually saying is that I am a hot-headed person who does not have good control of my emotions, which is accurate. Yeah, Aries moons have temper problems sometimes. I do. I have a lot of temper. I have all the temper problems. All the temper. And then the Leo rising temper.

And that's fire. So let's add in Leo rising. What does that do? So that's the outer you, which is a performer, but can also like everything comes out big and larger than life as a, you know, if you are, if you are angry or emotional. So we, we all are emotional, but the fire expression of emotions that is a little euphemistic, but

But the fire expression of emotions is to quickly blaze up hot and to understand that that's your tendency. Hot-headed and must win. And that's the authority. So the authority is... I knew Jonathan would love this part. I like her interpretations. You're very, very cautious. You're like, oh, you...

strong emotion. Oh, they're so strong. They sometimes make people cry. Yeah. They sometimes burn the house down. We can turn up the Sag and the Scorpio, but it might get ugly. So yeah, but that authority is very much like this is how it is and can be set in their ways and very much kind of not diverge from their beliefs.

This is very helpful to understand that this is a cosmic blueprint and not something that I trigger in her. Right. Which you would think when we get to yours, you'll understand why you think you might be triggering it. Okay, but here's my question. Because...

I don't like most of the people I have to interact with. I want to know where my people are. In what time frame on December 12th am I looking for humans that will have the same triumvirate of asshole fireness?

Or the balance, because if you put a bunch of them together, wouldn't they just explode and attack each other? But I am curious, how long are those, do these three planets, is it just at 9.08? No, it's a two-hour window. Oh, a two-hour window? Yeah. Oh, okay.

Well, what degree is her Aries moon, Ophi? Do you have that handy? 18. You've got a lot of 18s. High. Yeah. Your moon is high. And her rising is 18 degrees, Leo, if you want to get numerological. You like an 18. High rising. Well, okay, so within maybe two hours, the moon would have stayed. I need to post this.

For anyone born December 12th, 1975. We'll give you the exact hours. I want to know those hours. Because those are the people that I should work with. Those are the people I should hang out with. No.

No, no, no, no, no, no. That's too much. That could start a conflagration. We can't have that. You actually, when this is where the I am system comes in handy. So you are low on earth. You only have one. I'm not grounded at all. Yeah. Your south node is in Taurus. That's like the past life energy. So you,

You do have a little bit of it, but it's not where you're headed. And low on air too, which makes you kind of get, makes you not as social, not like as many people too. You're just like, you know what? I'm good. I'm just going to go burn something down here.

He's like, I rest my case. I'm a water sun. I'm trying to douse the flames. I'm doing my best. Is that why I have been sent here? Yeah, I think so. There will be a forest fire otherwise. There will be. You are the fire department. Okay, so we've covered the sun sign for me and the moon and the rising. And tell me more about or talk a little bit more about this sort of...

you know, the innovator, the authority, the maven, right? These are the sort of three archetypes that can come up. I came up mostly innovator, but are we... Mostly authority. I'm sorry, mostly authority. Are we all sort of a mix? Does anyone come up 100% something? Yes.

The most you can come up with is probably my stepdaughter, who's 11, authority, zero, innovator, and two. But that was a rare moment in 1999 when the planets were all like many, many of them in one of the types of signs. So what the I am system is based on is

a classification of the 12 zodiac signs. They get divided into fire, earth, air, and water, but there's another classification called the qualities or modes or modalities, almost like our behavioral drivers and triggers. And that's what we found so interesting because we love personality tests and Enneagram and that sort of thing. So the innovators are

are the signs that begin every season, Aries, Cancer, Libra, and Capricorn. So if you have a dominance of those in your chart, then you're going to be an innovator. You have three. So we have six.

So we're innovators, innovating an astrological personality test. The authorities, signs, Taurus, Leo, Scorpio, and Aquarius are in the middle of the season. So you think the innovator kind of starts the spark and then the authority takes it and builds it, tends the flame, builds the fire. Everybody has a job. Your job is that. And then the mavens are the superstars

the signs that finish every season, Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius, and Pisces. So if you have a predominance of those in your chart, those are called the mutable signs, then you're the sort of transition team. You're the people who bring everyone together, do the marketing, share about it, talk about it, gather everyone around the table to serve up whatever the authorities cooked and the innovators caught.

So everyone has a job. And depending on the proportions of innovator authority or Maven in your chart, you can look at how you're wired and be like, ooh, I'm low on that. Like we're low on Maven and we always have to push ourselves to do social media types of things.

Can we, can you talk a little bit about sort of the nurture versus nature of this? You know, if we look at this as sort of the nature aspect, right? This is the place where things were that can determine all these things. You know, I was raised, let's say in a, in a particular home, everybody's raised, whatever

where they're raised. But I wonder, you know, if I had been raised in a completely different kind of home, right, where there weren't the challenges I had or the, you know, stimulation I had or the excitement that like, whatever, if I was raised in someplace very, very different, is it possible that those features of me would not need to kind of come out the way they have? And is that something we can change as adults? Yeah.

Absolutely. That's why we have a parenting section in the Astrology Advantage book. Like,

I'm a water innovator, and so is my daughter, who just started high school. And I don't impose astrology on anyone, but I just observe. I have an authority stepdaughter who became an accountant of her own volition. Surprise, surprise. And then my innovator daughter, who does not keep track of time that well, and I'm always having to kind of help her with her executive functioning, which is very much a trait that we've noticed. So

So yes, if your parents have been like, okay, she's an authority, maybe she needs a little more structure or consistency, or maybe she needs a mentor that's not one of us. She's fiery. Maybe we shouldn't try to contain her or we should give her, we should direct the fire so it becomes something that warms her up instead of burns everything down. I don't know what your childhood was like, but those are how I would use it. Yeah.

If someone has low air and low earth, how do you bring some of that into their life? Is it a practice? Are there physical objects you can bring? Do you just bury their feet in the dirt? What do you do? I think with low air, I would really try to work on drawing them out to be more communicative and social. They may tend to...

go play alone or be a little more introverted or maybe go along to get along a little bit. And somebody who's low on earth may need to learn how to appreciate structures and routines to ground themselves. I would take a grounded... I would take them to kids yoga at this point or out in nature a little bit more and let them...

Or maybe have them go volunteer somewhere and make their own lunch or food or something as a kid so that they could get those built-in routines. Otherwise, they may struggle with it when they're adults and be more like, I'm going here, I'm going there. Oh, my feelings. Whoa. Yeah.

You know, what's really funny is I just had to mute myself because the volunteer fire department started blaring their sirens after we talked about all your fire. I've got the times for Mayim's fire spinners. So anyone born on December 12th, 1975, between the times of 7.38 p.m. and 10.02 p.m. Pacific. Amazing. Those are my peeps.

738 to 1002. Those are your astro twins. Bonfires will ensue. They will have the same big three, but not the same degrees. They're trying to keep us apart because we're going to start a revolution. That's right. They're telling us don't get together. That means we're going to bring the Messiah. We can never, ever tear you apart. Never, ever. Never, ever.

Well, this does add a question of like when building a team, when building a relationship, when having, you know, family is a little harder because you can't choose all your family. But especially for hiring, for friendships, I assume there are complementary skill sets that help one another.

Oh, absolutely. Our team ends up, whether we want them to or not, playing to their roles. Our customer service and assisting team is all authorities and they love it. And we know that as innovators, we get scattered all over. And if we don't give them a proper plan of bulleted items that they may or may not

know what to do. So we have to train ourselves to give them directions the way they need. Our editor is a maven, you know, just... Yeah, she loves doing all the things. Yeah, it really helps to know. And we work with teams. We've worked with like 200 person execs

executive teams and they've all done their IM and we've guided them toward things. It helps them a lot. So some people, we have a friend and kind of a work associate who interviews people kind of to determine their Enneagram.

before deciding if they're going to be part of a team. And the reason is because you can have someone, for example, who let's say you hire someone as an assistant, which is a job that requires a lot of details and a lot of kind of quick starting and a lot of follow through and a lot of, you know, being able to tolerate many tasks at once. And if you hire someone as an assistant who actually is just wanting to be an assistant, but what they really want to be is a screenwriter, right?

And they take this job because like, sounds good, flexible hours, like I'll be able to work it out. I'm smart. I can do it. But if their kind of type, if who they are is actually a creative person who's very particular about their time and really is an artistic free spirit, that's not going to be a good match. Meaning they might think that

they should be an assistant because it's like a good way to make money, but it's actually going to be a conflict. So can you talk a little bit about sort of where you see astrology as sort of a personality test of sorts to help you determine really where you belong so that you're not constantly in conflict? You know, what's cool about astrology as a personality test is it's just, you get the same results every time with your birth chart.

the Enneagram, I was a two and now I'm a three, you know, which does fit more. I guess I'm a three with a two wing, but we're both threes. We thought she was a seven. And then we did some super corporate one and found out we were both threes. We're like,

can we ever, can we ever have something different? Yeah, right. No, apparently not. But I know what you mean because absolutely. And we use astrology exactly the same way. That's why we made the IAM system because, you know, the Enneagram is one number and that's what makes it easy for most people to remember. So IAM, you have one archetype and you can use it exactly the same way. But yeah, the innovators on the team are,

It might not even be that they shouldn't have that job, but that they need to work in a different way. So the innovators, we even have in our book different office setups that are ideal for each. The innovator actually likes to move around. And that's true. Like I'll call her. I'm like, oh, what coffee shop are you at now, Ophie? You know, and I'll be like, I'm on my way to work in Bath.

Ballard now. Uh, we just need that variety and that stimulating environment. Whereas, um, but we also need a large desk to spread out on. The authority tends to need like, this is my work area. This is my play area. And they need to be like very siloed in what they do. Well,

And then the Maven can make a real mess. Sorry, Jonathan. I don't know if you do, but we recommend like shelves and building. Are you messy? I love shelves, but no, I don't think I'm messy. He's also in denial. Is that part of his chart? No.

I'm not messy. I've just got a lot going on. Well, let's talk about that because this is a good segue because Jonathan, denial ain't just a river. It's your rising sign. It's...

Who's the fire sign now? You're a Pisces rising cancer sun and cancer moon. So very... You're all water. Yeah. So you're triple water and Mayim's triple fire. And that does not happen often. Yeah. We can find out your time group too, you know, if you want.

But that might not matter to you as much as a maven. You're like, whatever, you know. So Pisces rising? Pisces rising. So that's your outer... What does that mean? That's fishy. I didn't know. Something real fishy going on. Yeah. That's the one that I didn't know about. I knew about Cancer Sun. I actually probably knew at some point Cancer Moon...

But yeah, walk me through it. How do I understand this? Well, when your sun and moon are the same sign, you're born on a new moon. So you... Rosh Chodesh. Yeah, Rosh Chodesh, baby. So when the sun and moon are in the same sign as well, it's like also what you see is what you get. What does that mean? Sorry, can you tell us practically what that means in the sky?

Uh, the sun and the moon are, if you were to look from our vantage point here on earth, they would both be, it would look like they were lined up in this 30 degree segment of the sky that belongs to cancer. So imagine we sort of divide the panoramic sky into 12, 30 degree slices, each one that makes a 360 degree circle. Yeah. So he's got that. So

The sign that was at the nine o'clock point or the eastern horizon was Pisces when you were born. And so that's kind of your first view of life, the way you kind of filter everything through your rising sign. It's your lens on life. It's the first impression you make and your first instinct. So Pisces is compassionate, merciful.

musical, artistic, a little bit melancholic, drowning in the depths sometimes. But like you could be a psychic sponge, really. It's like very sensitive to the energies and moods of the room. So sensitive. Sometimes making too many sacrifices. Kind of sort of a punk rock vibe. And I'm not just saying, you know, it's like a little bit...

A little bit head in the clouds. I'm going to cut through the... It's a little bit... It could be dreamy, too. It could be dreamy. Oh, dreamy. That's the fancy word, right? Head in the clouds. The fancy word for distracted. That's the word for having great ideas. Oh, yeah. For sure. And cancers are very home and family nurturing, but you need your freaking space. You need...

If you don't have your solitary space, that's just bad news. Or just the whole house is your solitary space and there's no room for anyone or anything else. Is that an option? That can happen.

That can definitely happen. It's not me. It's my sign. Get used to it. It's all those Maven projects. Know what you're getting. Yeah. If nothing else, astrology gives us the ultimate excuse, you know? Do Mavens like projects? Tell us about that. They do. So many projects. Oh, God. We talk about the Maven mess in the book because they have piles of things that they're partway through. I mean, an organized Maven then will have like...

rooms or areas, but they definitely have stations for their many different multi-hyphenate projects. That's why I have so many desks. I want a station. And...

Yeah, I do. I live with a maven. I've bought him cool vintage lockers. I've done shelves. No matter how many systems. No, they want their shit in your face. They don't want to put it in a locker. I'm not going to show you the room over there. There's a room with a door on it. They're not going to use a locker. Put those on eBay, sister. He's never using that locker. Oh my God, yes. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You're the locker. He's going to be like, hold this. Hold this. I'll be right back. And then do seven other projects. Oh, for sure. And you're holding the project. Who's the astrologer here? I mean, that's what we say. Mavens like to wear like 20 different hats all at once. They have 20 different hats. Oh!

Wow. But they all live neatly on my hat shelves. Of course you have hat shelves. Collectors, curators. Oh, for sure. There is no one better than a maven to find a needle in a haystack, a treasure hunt. They're like, they find the coolest shit though. They really do. And buy it and bring it home. I feel like though I have that part. Like I have, I definitely have those tendencies. Yeah.

But I have a lot of that. I feel like I have it compartmentalized. Yes, I have...

Three desks, not four. I think that's an important correction. And I do like projects, although I tend to try to control them. I do have some piles on my desk currently, but that's part of settling. There's some upheaval happening right now. Normally, I like a very clear desk. I like very clear counters. I do not like a lot of clutter. Wait, can I say something, though?

He says that he likes it. And I think design-wise and stylistically, he does. But what's interesting to me, and maybe someone can explain this. There are things that happen in order for you to have clean, open space. It doesn't seem to be happening. Meaning, I don't know if that's like a dream. I don't know if it's a denial of the practicality. But like...

I wonder, is this a feature of it, of wanting it to be organized and wanting something, but actually what you're interested in doesn't necessarily lend itself to that because you do need all these spaces. Mavens do everything well when they do it. And that includes cleaning. When the maven decides to clean up, it's like insane. Like the maven that I live with,

messy. And then one day I'll come home and I'm like, I can't, I don't scrub around places with a toothbrush, but it's like, they're just very detailed oriented. Very engineers in some ways. Yeah. Yeah.

fungineers. Yeah, but like what you're saying, Mayim, yeah, they really like to do things with their hands. They're tinkerers and they need their tinker time. So they need a lot of those tubs to put because a lot of their hobbies come with parts or musical instruments with strings and equipment or motherboards, mother, yeah, whatever. They're always putting stuff together. This is

the most accurate assessment of Jonathan that I've ever heard. Meaning, we've taken personality tests. We've tried to do the... He cannot figure out his Enneagram. I think it's because I can answer better than he can. But this is the most... This is the most accurate explanation of Jonathan. I don't know if it's the most

I don't know if it feels the most accurate for mine, just because like, I don't know, so much of mine seems also kind of like situational and it's sort of like, I just want to be put on a desert island and then I won't be any of these horrible things. And that's also a very authority thing to say. I would imagine so. But this feels so accurate to Jonathan. Tell us more. I want to know more things about Jonathan. Well, there's something really fun that I saw about both of you is that you both have Mars...

and Gemini and Mars is the warrior planet the motivation planet so it also shows how we work so Mars and Gemini Gemini is the sign of the twins so you guys work really well together Gemini's the communicator it also likes to debate and spar and playfully argue which I see you do well and um

You know, just also that mental curiosity is... Now, creatively, we look at Venus or romantically, and my immune Venus in Scorpio...

like us. What a curse and a blessing. And Jonathan has Venus in Gemini. So funny enough, when it comes to like love and stuff, Mayim, you can get a lot more emotionally attached and spun up and Jonathan can get, yeah. Yeah. And Jonathan can get more rational and like a cat. Like, okay, I need it. Like a meme cat. Like a hell cat. Yeah.

Like, leave me alone, you know? What does that mean, like a cat? Can we expand on that? Like, don't come close to me. I'll tell you when I'm ready. And then I want all the love. And if you don't give me the love, I'm going to be pissed. Right. I'm going to be the little spoon and don't pet me till I'm ready. That's what like a cat means. Okay. I don't own cats. I wasn't aware. Okay.

I think it's more like, you know, cats are a little, can need their space, can be a little standoffish, a little more cerebral. I don't know if cats can be, but Venus and Gemini can be a little more cerebral and intellectual about love and feelings. Do you like to talk about things?

analyze it all. I do like a little analytical, but also I definitely, you know, I always attributed this to sort of introversion, extroversion. There are, I hit a wall where I'm like, I just need to lie on the couch alone by myself. I like other people around, but I don't want to interact with them. And if I can do that for, you know,

And I never know when it hits, like, but it hits at some point. Because if we could predict it, other people might be prepared. Well, we can't. That's the other part of astrology. That's fun. So this is, yeah, this is what I wanted to ask. You said these things change like throughout the day. People check their, their chart every day.

Yeah, some astrologers do. So, you know, your chart never changes, but the planets in the sky always do. So astrologers use what's called a bi-wheel. They put your frozen chart in the middle and then kind of like a, you know, like an old camera where you click...

to adjust the focus and the F-stop. Or like a pregnancy birth calculator. You put like your date of conception and then it shows you. Oh, yeah. Exactly. It just keeps clicking around and you can see how we follow the moon. And as a cancer for you, Jonathan, the moon would probably be a really good one to follow. But that's how a lot of astrologers make their daily horoscope predictions based on where the moon is compared to you, Jonathan.

to your chart or to your signs. So wait, when there's another, because if he was born on a new moon, when it's a new moon, should I stay away from him or get close to him? I think right before a new moon, everybody's, we call it planetary PMS. The eight moon phases all definitely create a global effect, full moons, eclipses. But yeah,

based on your chart, I always tell people, so the two and a half days that the moon is in Scorpio is going to be your planetary PMS, Mayim, whenever it's in the sign before yours. And the two and a half days that it's in Gemini, Jonathan's got planetary PMS. Let's review two and a half days when the moon is in Scorpio. Yep. Every month.

How do I know when that is? Yeah, we use an app called iLuna. There's a ton of moon apps. You can find the phase it's in and the sign. Well, I mean, the Jewish calendar follows the moon. So I know every major Jewish holiday is on a full moon. And sorry, for me, it's the two and a half days when the moon is in Cancer.

Gemini. Gemini. Because then it goes into cancer after that and restarts you for a month. So that's your new month. That's your own personal Rosh Chodesh. Susan Miller has a good, it's called Moonlight app. Moonlight. Yeah, just Moonlight. And it'll give you a little, right now the moon is in Sagittarius. So for the three of us, we're on fire right now, you know. The past weekend, we all had planetary PMS. Yeah, how was the weekend for you, Mayim?

Were you kind of like, eh? Better than the weekend before. I'm seeing improvements. I love it. Cancer and Sagittarius too is a very interesting combination because you're actually five signs apart in the Zodiac, which is...

means you don't have anything in common. No, really don't. I barely know why we're here. Yeah, it's like you don't have the same element and you don't have the same quality. So that is... But we actually find that there's great chemistry there because you're always...

enigmatic to each other. So it never gets boring, you know? My mom's a cancer, which I think is interesting when you meet people who are whatever the signs of your parents or things, because you have sort of a, you know, a pre-decided sort of like, oh, I don't get along with this person or I do get along with this person. But having a relationship with someone or, you know, even being friends with someone, it's so different than the parent relationship when you're looking at signs. Exactly. Exactly. And that does matter.

For sure. What would we just say that were five parts, five signs? Yeah, on the zodiac wheel. Yes, your sun sign or your zodiac sign. Yeah, the distance between any two signs creates an energy in astrology that is...

either, you know, easy and smooth, but maybe a little boring or different. Sometimes there's some friction. Sometimes it's good. I think, you know, Sagittarians, we get bored easily. So if someone is too much like us, we actually kind of drift. So she's like, you're still trying to keep me apart. You keep trying to keep me apart. So that's why we could look at each other and be like, what world do you come from? Yeah, pretty much.

We call it like the alien, the adorable aliens. But also, you know, when people think of dating, you know, there's like the sort of like, what's your sign, right? But that's actually kind of the least of it when you think about it. Like the cute girl who in that store we were in a couple weeks ago who asked you what your sign is. And I was like, hi, what are you asking? She asked you your sign too, you Scorpio. Because I walked up.

Oh yeah. Do not, do not. That's the Venus and Scorpio. We have that too. Yeah. That's a very small part of it because knowing that someone, let's say is a sign that's even complimentary to you, they could have a rising that makes it the thing. They could have a moon thing. Do people have you do charts if they're not sure if they want to date?

Oh, yeah. All the time. Wait, did Beyonce do that? Is that how we got this beautiful relationship that lasted forever? You know what? She did. Because when we met her at the Billboard Awards, when she was rehearsing, it was in her not will they, won't they cycle with Jay-Z. And she had never had a chart done before. Stop it. So we're like, yeah. We're like, do you want us to do this? And she was like, yeah, yeah.

And so we did give her her first...

birth chart and her first couples chart that compared the two of them. And so I don't know if that was a deciding factor or not. I'd like to think so. I would like to think so too. What I hear is that you told Beyonce to marry Jay-Z and that is the only reason it happened. That's the only reason. Yeah, let's just, you know, call it. But people do this. They'll come to you and say, I want to date someone. And what do you think?

Oh, God, yes. Is that mostly what you get asked? They'll be like, my son, my husband, mystery person's date. And it's always like someone from their past or someone that they have this feeling with sometimes. So, or they're like,

Like they have a couple that are in rotation under consideration. Yeah. And by the way, very rarely will we say, no, don't do that. You know, because people are going to date who they're going to date, really. But we will say, if you make this choice, here's what you're going to have to put up with. Get ready. What about throuples?

Yeah, you could do a throuple. Then you add another chart. It's very complicated. This is the reason that throuples may need to think twice. I've done throuples. I've done throuples charts before. Our software does up to three. It does up to three. If you're a quadruple or whatever you want to call it, I'm sorry, we're going to get some new software. You have to upgrade your software. Right.

I wonder if you do retrospectives on relationships that didn't work. Oh, always. I mean, looking at the past is actually an even better way to learn astrology than looking ahead because when you look back and go, oh, I think that was what made us go, oh, there really is something to this more than...

you know, just fond. That would make me feel good about a breakup if I knew that it was in the stars, that it wasn't supposed to work. Can you talk a little bit about, um,

you know, how we set up our homes and what ways we can sort of improve. Let's say, you know, you have something like me, you come up as an authority, right? What does that mean? I really like this part of the book where you kind of talked about like literally what setting up a house looks like if you're that person. So can you describe a little bit about what the different archetypes look like in terms of like setting up a house? Sure, the innovator is always gonna want to,

you know, be on trend with, not on trend. Innovator is a very like creative design style, you know, colorful, creating an environment that feels enlivening and beautiful.

I'm an innovator. I have a chair from a hotel salvage from this cool hotel. I got a branch that I found. It's like pieces from their discoveries and that spark people's curiosity and that no one else has. The innovators love to be original and sometimes may forget about functionality at first and need...

To remember that just because a couch looks really cool doesn't mean that it belongs in your home if it's too uncomfortable to sit on, you know? Most likely to have a not fully furnished home at any time is definitely an innovator. And they're always on the go. So they're like, oh, well, you know, I didn't...

starting as the innovator's specialty, as the signs that start every season. So finishing not so much is why we all need each other. True. I still haven't done my bookshelves and I've lived here for seven years. And then the authorities... And one thing about innovators that can be hard, they're not messy the way the Mavens are, but they do tend to turn every flat surface into a project space. They'll move things over, but...

the kitchen table should be, you know, off limits for them if they live with other people, you know? We'll take it over. Yeah. Ophie used to work in her kitchen when it was book season. I was like on the countertop. I know that annoyed the family. Why are these annoying people trying to eat and watch TV? Oh, that's my family. Okay. No, I'm busy. Yeah. The authority, on the other hand, likes to have every room have a purpose and

and a purpose for every room. I don't know if you're like that, Mayim, but definitely like more traditional decor, your awards, your family photos, things that are like nostalgic, you know, art from,

you know, the Venice heritage, whatever. Like, this is the fun room. This is my office. This is the, you know, you don't necessarily like the rooms to mix. I do like a theme room. I like a theme. Like, I love, like, when there's hotels and, like, every room's got a different theme. I love that. Like, the Legoland Hotel, that's my place. Like, I want the night. Yeah.

Awesome. I love it. And then the mavens, when they're not making messes and piles of things, can really curate collections. But they do need a lot of social spaces as well. Like you said, even if you're taking a nap on the couch, it's

It's good. It's fine if there are people going in and out of the room. Just want to go into your zone. I've seen many a maven fall asleep when all their people are around. That's when they finally relax and go to sleep. Yeah.

Also, Maven's homes look like workshops a lot. The kitchen will have all the cool knives and gadgets. Like they'd like to have, you know, while the innovators are more interested in like how it looks, like, you know, it's like cool. And, you know, the decor, the Mavens are like,

oh, I got a kaleidoscope for our guests and a candy dish. And, you know, I'm going to put this book out to talk about. They're like, here are my toys. Mavens want people to come over and play with their toys, basically. And are there, like, levels to this? Because I feel like as you're talking, you know,

I have some of those tendencies, but I also like things to look nice and be streamlined. And I don't have like, I don't feel like I have it to the extreme. I feel, you know, like when you- You're a Cancer. So Cancer rules the home and Cancers are about-

design and, you know. So it could be that like, even if he's mostly Maven, which should be his little handle, mostly Maven. 75%. 70%. Maybe 65. 53 actually. Oh, so that's why. That's really just over half of him.

So then we have these other, yeah, what's the other distribution? 30% innovator, 15% authority. So that's why he has you to fill in and 53% Maven. When you do this, so if you go to astrostyle.com slash diagram, very easy URL, you put your time, date and place of birth and then you get the map. It'll show you the percentage breakdown of each and your type like Flowmaster or, you know,

So that is, it's really good to do other people's makes it so much as you can see, like, oh, I don't know if this is me. Oh, that is so you. Yeah, Mayim, you are 23% innovator, 46% authority and 30%

Maven, so you're a little more evenly spread. I'm less of an authority than you are a Maven. Yeah, you are. This actually makes a lot more sense now understanding the breakdown because you have a lot of collecting. You have those tendencies that would be described as Maven. And so it's like, really, where do you express each part of that collection of personality? We all have each of them, most likely.

Yep. I think she's three, six, four. So yeah, it's just the innovator that you're the lowest on. And also, and you know, just to sort of like bring some of the science into it, like, you know, I am on the obsessive compulsive spectrum, right? Which means, which means that I'm going to have, but I'm

going to have a certain set of, you know, categorical things that can be genetic and environmental. And if people are on the autism spectrum, like there's all different kind of flavors of this that are then going to color, you know, the intersection between these things, which I

I think is a really neat thing about the way that you work. You know, you integrate a lot of other components. And I actually wanted to ask about something that, you know, is kind of outside of this scientific realm, but related. What's up with tarot cards?

because I know you can incorporate them. A lot of people love them. You know, they're kind of whimsical and they're beautiful and there's all these different like creative tarot cards, but some people really kind of live by what they're drawn to pull from a deck. What's up with tarot? Tarot is a different, okay, tarot still has symbology. So there's a randomization to it. It's like people believe that

You have a connection to the cards and they're giving you a message that you couldn't necessarily grasp.

from your own mind. There is a way more woo component to it. But when you see the card, each one has a nump. There's a major arcana and then there's a minor arcana. So the high priestess, for example, is two. So that gets into numerology. And each card is also associated with a planet too. It's

connected to the moon. So it does, they all cross into each other. It's an interesting divination system, but we were drawn to astrology because we do have more math minds, not just because of my binary rising degree, but I find it easier to say, well, you're an 18 degree Leo rising, and that's what this means. And that's a

fact based on the measuring system we use, whereas tarot, although I do use it, I feel like I started to use it after becoming more psychic from doing so many charts. I'm sorry, did you say you can become more psychic? Yeah, you definitely can. Wait, wait, wait. Hold on one second. Say more.

And what happened was I started looking at all these charts and I used to spend very long amounts of time, like hour, a couple hours preparing them and reading what it meant. But then it stuck. We have photographic memories to be up, to be fair. But yeah.

I started, it started, I think another part of me, I think I built a neural pathway from learning the astrology and it became known, it became a muscle memory of sorts. And that allowed, as I started to look at charts, I felt that the symbols kind of started to talk to me or I was getting information that I didn't know. I'll have this experience sometimes where I'm like,

I don't know where this is coming from, but I'm just going to say it. I just decided I was going to practice that. And I started that. And it turned out I was having a psychic reading of someone, like a woman whose brother had died. I described a painting that he did. What? Yeah. And I was like, he wants you to move it. I was like, I'm just saying, okay, I'm just going to just be weird and say it.

I was like, okay, it's in a dark place and he wants you to move it out of that place into some other. Her brother committed suicide and had left a painting for her and she'd put it in a dark hallway unbeknownst to me. What about the fact that you dreamed the history of our dad's family from Bulgaria to Israel? What is happening right now?

The four minutes between her stealing the placenta and you being stuck in the incubator and she got a weird gift that you don't have. I know, it's not fair. She has some, that happens sometimes too, but yes. Okay, so go ahead. I'm sorry, you dreamed your whole family's Bulgarian story? Actually, I'm going to just really out myself and say it was a Ouija board. Okay, it was a Ouija board, but you still channeled it.

Our dad's mom died when he was an infant. He was our dad's family. They're Sephardic Jews who were from Bulgaria. But there was always this mystery of like, they went on this ship that tipped over and one of his two brothers drowned and his dad wasn't able to save them. That was all we ever heard. And I was using the Ouija board. Don't ask why. It's

I don't know why. Because you were 12 years old at a birthday party. Right, exactly. 30-12, yeah. 30-12, right. 30-12, yeah. And it was like, okay, this is my grandmother or whatever, who I, of course, obviously never met. And it was like, your mom has the story wrong. And so I started some research. And apparently there was this eye doctor who...

Paid for this wooden ship to help the Jews escape Bulgaria. And you can I found I mean, I literally found an academic white paper. That's how like deep I researched. And he sold 300 tickets, but it was only supposed to hold 50 people and it got caught in a storm.

So in this white paper is a picture in Jerusalem of a large... It's not a grave. It's a large memorial with all the names of the people who were on this ship. It was called the Salvador. And our parents met in Jerusalem, probably steps away. Our mother was studying abroad at the Hebrew University. They did not even know this thing existed. It has...

our grandfather, our two uncles, and our grandmother's name on the memorial as though they died. The only person, only one of them did. So that's, that's the creepy thing. Wait. Yeah. Wait. No, you know what the fucking creepiest thing is? It sunk on December 12th. Oh, yes, it did. Our dad's birthday. My birthday. I know.

I know. Oh, God. That's right. Oh, you found it. Good work. 1940, carrying Jewish immigrants from Bulgaria. Yep. You found it. Uh-huh. That's right. It sank on our dad's and your birthday. Wow. He was born in 1944. So I was like,

And I've told my parents this and they don't seem as like shocked. I think they even went as like, could you, why don't you go look at this thing? So, I mean, I got to like hit him over the head with this paper here. So, yeah.

Yeah, that's the kind of weird stuff I cannot explain. Does that count as psychic? I think so. Well, I mean, I think it begs the question, you know, besides the astrological work that you do, you know, is there kind of a specificity to what you tap into that informs this work? And yeah, I am curious, Tali, like if you have similar experiences

you know, kind of access to other realms that you also feel also is kind of giving credence to the work that you do. Because I think in some ways there's a lot of people who do astrology and it's fun and it's great, but kind of understanding that there are also things outside of your realm of understanding that kind of click in feels like, oh, maybe this stuff does make sense to you in a different way because of an intuitive sense. Or maybe just the ability to,

that we over practice and over time, I think we've always been intuitive. Like I can remember before I had language being frustrated, not being able to,

get involved in conversations that my mom and aunt were having and our grandmother, like can literally remember being on the kitchen floor. Like, I want to say something, you know, so sad, but, uh, and you had all my pregnancy symptoms. I was, I, she doesn't have kids. I,

I had zero symptoms. I think we're seeing who gets the short end of the stick here. Placenta, no pregnancy symptoms. Yeah. God, it's a cross to bear. No. So if I wanted to enhance my ability to be in touch with these things, I mean, like I- You can, don't you think?

I mean, who knows? I mean, you're the brain scientist, right? Like, we don't use much of our brains, right? So what would that look like? I mean, is it sort of looking at charts and looking at people and understanding them? Is it understanding your own self in the scope of your chart? My opinion on it is that it's all of the above. I think it's like you...

Get yourself into a relaxed enough state to be able to get, I feel like, you know, maybe there's energetic, maybe there's energy and information that's available for us to access, but we have to be in the right state to be able to receive it. Well, I would say, so you are low on earth and air, which OCD spectrum makes sense because things being moved around and out of place. So getting into your body with that high fire energy

could be really hard. It's very hard. Well, I think it's really hard. And even just what you mentioned, I mean, I think a lot of people, it's not just that we want to be able to like be more psychic or we want to, you know, like a lot of us just want to feel more in our body, feel less out of control, feel less

anxious. So even what you just said, that's for many of us what we're trying to achieve when we learn to breathe correctly, when we learn to meditate. Or some people are using prayer or having spiritual experiences just to try and get into our body. So I would say that all my friends out there who are very fiery and don't have a lot of air or grounding probably would

in theory, have a similar experience of challenges getting into our bodies, relaxing, tuning in, believing things are outside of our realm. Yeah, you might need to do something more kinesthetic to get, like,

For me, when I'm doing a reading, when I look at a tarot card or I look at a chart, it gives me something to focus on. And then I feel the energy kind of coming out of my head, you know, like out of this part, like this is where all the energy concentrates. And I go, okay. And I start to...

know what to say and get information. You know, it's kind of like when you're writing, like, are you just transcribing? But we're water dominant, so that might be different. It's like it starts to kind of roll in like waves. But with all that fire for you, I think you need to like actually get all that energy out of your body. It's very physical. Jonathan is a much more kind of intuitive, you know, kind of feels person.

feels things very deeply or picks up on other people's energy, for lack of a better word. And by that, I mean, if he's around a lot of agitation, it's not just that he gets agitated, he gets out of sorts and it like feels kind of cloudy for him, meaning it's upsetting. So is that a feature of waterness?

Yes, very much. But you might be energized by the agitation, like throw you in the middle of it sometime. She'll make a list of all the things that need to be fixed. Put her in a mosh pit. Yeah, you might get psychic downloads in a mosh pit or something. I don't know. Whoa, let's try that out. That's an episode. Valerie, let's get on it. Mosh pit.

Yeah, you know what? Drumming. I know that sounds weird. No, I like... You know, so music is a place. And especially the synagogue... Right, the synagogue I go to, there's a lot of... It's actually a Sephardic cantor and there's a lot of melodies that feel like they're from another time and there's some...

drumming and it's very like, it feels a little bit like you're touching something from another place. And I don't know how to describe that. It usually makes me cry. Like I feel overly emotional about it, but I don't know why. Well, I can tell you in your chart, since we've gone fully woo now, there are two points and Tali mentioned them earlier called the South Node and the North Node. And they're included in our data set of the IM system.

And they're always in opposite signs and houses of your chart. So they're diametrically opposite each other. And one is your past life sign or what your soul's DNA is. That's called your south node. And then your north node is what you're becoming. So tikkun. The tikkun, they call it in Kabbalah. So you have a Taurus south node and a Scorpio north node. So you're very...

the Taurus south node is those very haunting, ancient, old traditions. Ancestral trauma.

That it is actually, it is. And it gets stuck in your body. And the Scorpio is the mystical though. So you are moving toward from the kind of material, skeptical, Taurus kind of, it's very authority-ish to the Scorpio. Like maybe there is something out there. So I would think that a Sephardic melody might awaken that in you because it has that Scorpionic haunted, you know,

Spanish mystery, but still the tradition. Interesting that Jonathan is a Pisces south node past life energy, very comfortable in the numinous undefined energy moving towards Virgo, which is orderly and systematic and meticulous. Yes.

Well, this is really interesting because the two kind of most esoteric points, let's say, of a chart, right? This sort of like past and future, which a lot of people would be like, I can't get my head around that. For sort of the life transitions, I would say that Jonathan and I are undergoing as adults, which feels a lot like kind of a suspended maturation. You know, like we're finally sort of, you know, especially with our podcast and we're forming this like work that we do together. Yeah.

those feel more accurate to the intersection that we're part of. And speaking of it from kind of a scientific perspective, if you are someone who, and we know this, if you are experiencing intergenerational trauma, which many of us do, right? Especially if you're a post-Holocaust family or your family comes from war or a refugee status, right? You're raised with this sort of luggage, right? Like we were in our grandmothers, like the eggs that are you were...

in your grandmother's womb when she experienced everything because that's how gametes work. You can look it up. So if you think of that, there are people for whom that intergenerational trauma is going to weigh more heavily. And this we know, and there's a lot of research into this, but what does healing from that look like?

And that's where the North Node comes in. Right. So for me, my healing is to get, you know, out of intergenerational trauma, right? My body has a lot, like carries a lot, right? Some of us have autoimmune diagnoses and especially for women, a lot of us are carrying these things. So what does healing look like? It looks like looking towards healing

more spirituality, more connection, less bossing people around and trying to manage and control everything and really trying to move into, I mean, when you talk about who you're supposed to be, that seems to be what this North Node is for Jonathan, really moving into a lot more order and structure, which is actually comforting for someone who typically has been kind of

I don't want to say floating, but yeah. Exactly. You're opposite in some ways because you're going from earth to water and he's going from water to earth. And, you know, sometimes people with Pisces South notes, that's one of the hardest tycoons or past life because it can mean that

In your childhood, sometimes it's like you had to deal with addiction, a parent having an illness or addiction or somehow not giving you the structure that you needed. Pisces is boundlessness. So learning how to actually have boundaries and limits is part of your healing. And that might not be the case for you, but that is often what I... Yeah, I like this assessment. Also, I had a question. There are people who say that they like

They know that they've lived other lives. Or like, this is my last incarnation, sometimes people will say. What is that? What is happening with that? Well, you know, it's really interesting because you may have heard of or read the book Many Lives, Many Masters by Dr. Brian Weiss, but he was...

who was using hypnosis with a patient who was having severe multiple personality disorder. And she began to remember past lives that he went and researched and historically corroborated. Yeah. Put that one on your Scorpio North Node bookshelf. And he is a Scorpio. And Dolores Cannon also. Oh, yeah. I mean, everybody in this room knows Dolores Cannon. Okay. Okay.

We love her. But I wonder because those are things that a lot of people consider like, that's crazy. But then in secret, you're like, but what if that's true? What if we're accessing things? What if we can loop back? I mean, I feel like remembering, do you have a remembrance? And a lot of people I know have had this where you're like, do you have a remembrance as a child where you looked in the mirror and like, what am I doing here? Yeah.

Yeah. And I feel like that is sort of what we are like, oh, I'm back in this body again in some way, you know? I mean, dissociative identity disorder, is it just your multiple lives meeting? Maybe, right? I mean, I'm not saying that facetiously. And if not taken to the clinical realm, you know, what you were talking about is that there's all this energy around that we can become aware of.

how do we move beyond our five senses? And as we do, maybe we are sensing things that we're not aware of because we're not ever taught how to live or incorporate those senses or that information. So psychic ability, as we begin to get that, it's different than necessarily intuition, which is kind of

you know, a little fuzzier that we described before, but literally getting information the way that you describe, oh, I have to tell this person or, you know, you get into their field, for example, and you just know information about them. Well, I have to tell this person about a piece of art that needs to be brought out of the darkness. Like...

My guides are telling me you need to carry my groceries up these stairs. Do you feel like you have guides around you? I mean, I'm curious for each of you what your answer would be. I probably do. I think I must because...

things work out for us in these bizarre, serendipitous ways. We'll see like flashes of repeating numbers and all kinds of like, I feel like the piercing of the veil happens that way. But I don't walk around saying my guides. I try to be like not that person.

Honestly, yeah, I am aware of being protected, I'd say. But I don't have a, like a, this is my guy, Henry, you know, things like that. But some people do, you know. What do you mean by piercing of the veil? I have my own thoughts on it. Okay, I bet you do, as a fellow water-dominant person. But, um... Well, it's that time when you... That awareness that there's more than just this. There's more, and then, like, suddenly...

There's a, like the veil is the illusion that everything that we can touch, taste, feel, smell, our five senses is all that there is. And I mean, it's understandable why people would walk around feeling that way, but there comes a point in most people's lives, I think when an experience comes and you're just like,

There's something else or some divine force that maybe I don't know what it is, but it's talking to me. It's trying to get my attention, whether it's through serendipities or just...

Things that you know that you don't know how you could or just a feeling, a moving feeling of connection to all of it. Maybe it can happen at a concert or when you're looking at a Sephardic synagogue. I mean, you just have that moment of oneness and you just feel like you're connected to all.

this is a pretty heavy Kabbalistic concept, which Kabbalah is, I don't know, kind of like, I don't want to say a cousin, but it's sort of like a cousin to some of this. Traditionally, numerology and things like that are not really practiced or astrology is not encouraged in Jewish thought. However, Kabbalistic traditions for thousands of years have had a

I don't want to say secret, but yeah, a very heavily guarded kind of concept of some of these esoteric aspects, which used to be, you know, a significant part of certain aspects of Judaism. And rabbinic Judaism was like, let's keep it really simple so that nobody leaves and we can fight wars, right? But, you know, there's a rabbi, Kiva Tatz, and he has this book called World Mass.

and what he describes is basically the veil. And that imagine if everything that you're seeing, and I get chills and it makes me want to cry, if everything that we're seeing is actually a projection, it's not actually what's happening, right? And, you know, the kind of common nomenclature is like, we're all in the matrix, right? I mean, that's why the matrix for some of us was so incredibly significant and powerful because it was like, it made a movie about what so many of us had been feeling intuitively. And so World Mask talks about this sort of concept that like,

There is a veil over everything. And just like if you were to project something from a movie projector onto a screen, you'd be able to describe exactly what's going on. You could even see it in different dimensions and you could have feeling and it can have a soundtrack and, you know, and it's an accurate representation of what's on that film. Right. But it's still a projection and there's still this sort of veil that covers everything. And for me, when you talk about piercing through the veil, it's those kind of moments of like, what if there's something else?

What if there's something more? What if I just experienced something and I can't explain it? What if I just got an image about a boat? Like, what is happening? Those are glitches in the matrix, you know? Yes to all of that. And...

I think there are so many different ways to describe it. Some of them get a little dangerous because people can use that as a weapon almost to avoid taking accountability or responsibility for things. Yeah, that's not the right use. So it's like... It's very... I like how judgy she just was. It's her Taurus in East Sunset. That's not right. Yeah. Sorry. Or like if...

If someone doesn't, you know, finish anything, it's like, oh, because I'm only a starter and I'm not a finisher. But like, there's, you know, degrees to this. But I would say that we all have, there's something more going on for most of our experiences, whether that be early childhood conditioning or our astrological map or, you know, the narratives that we've built. But my belief is that all of these are fully mirrored systems.

that are playing out as projections. So the problem I have in this relationship may be 100% this, while also being a representation of astrological combinations that have certain dynamics, while also each one of us having a narrative that is juxtaposed and not really fitting together yet, while also having our energy fields represent that, the literal stuff that's

outside of our bodies, bumping up against one another and you can like get into the level of the meridians and if you believe in chakras that, oh, as we step into space together or try to connect, they're also happening. So,

I think that each one of the modalities is a way to access it, but understanding more of the overlap, getting more of that information allows you to see it differently. Why are you smiling like that? Because that's the longest sentence anyone has ever spoken. I...

It was a good one, though. It was a good one, but so long. I want to map and see if I spoke any longer than she spoke before. And do fire signs have a hard time listening? I put punctuation. He just took his four desks and he laid them all out and he vomited all of his words all over his four desks. Yeah.

You know what? I think I, I, but what, what he just demonstrated is really at the core of it. Like we have no fucking idea, right? Like we only know like this much of what's really going on. And there's so many overlapping layers of things happening all at once that like,

why not approach things like this with a sense of wonder? That's rather than disdain. It's like, okay, we don't know. We can't prove astrology. We can't prove tarot, but how wonderful that we've had the system developed since the Babylonians to the Egyptians, to the Greeks, to modern day, like, why has it, you know, like this is, and, and,

You know, to play with it. Just like the Enneagram, you can't prove it, but you can play with it and try it on. And if it helps you to move and navigate this bizarre plane, this is a long sentence too, but then why not? She's marking. She's taking notes on where punctuation should go. Insert semicolon, placenta. Yeah, I think what happens...

is that we find ourselves in situations that we don't know how to navigate and they really take us out of our game and our brains and our minds and our knowledge and our education doesn't help or doesn't help fast enough. And that's when people start to like grant, like, okay, maybe I should look outside of this lens that I have for, because the other, the other stuff isn't helping any better.

And that's how a lot of people get into alternative modalities. They're stuck in some way and they're looking for other information. They know that this cannot be enough. They know that there's something else contributing to how they're experiencing the world. And they're like, just give me some more information. And often those can blow people's minds open. Years ago, I taught meditation and I taught a kind of a class that was hard to describe. It was like,

start to, it was like an intro to energetics where it wasn't like hands-on work or anything, but it was starting to get people aware that they could impact

their energy field. And so it was like, you know, getting your hands used to sort of sensing and extrasensory. It was also, you know, getting people in proximity and then getting people to practice. There's some exercises where you're like, okay, I'm going to close my eyes and I'm going to imagine. And because, you know, a lot of it is

A lot of the work is in combination with imagination, like how we can visualize. So if you can visualize a field around yourself,

Can I make myself really, really small? And then can someone else feel where my boundary is externally and walk up and feel it and sense it? And I would work with people who had zero experience. These are like suburban people who are like kind of started to meditate and were curious. And then like two or three people would be walking towards someone who made their field really, really small and stop at the exact same moment.

Now, and then just feel, wait, oh, wait. And then they would say, okay, now try to make yourself as big as possible. Again, visualizing externally that the energy and the space around you is a part of your body and is being pushed as far as you can. And some people would have a really hard time with that, meaning they couldn't take up space. And other people would be like, I'm trying to fill this whole space. And, you know, it's not a double-blind study, of course. There's a lot of subjectivity to it. But people would...

show and explain that, oh my God, all of a sudden I have this pulsing in my hands where that person envisioned themselves ending or they were able to extend to. And so then you start to think like, oh, if I actually don't exist in any particular time or space,

That I walk into a room well before I walk into the room or my intention for whatever I'm experiencing. And if I don't have intention, that also carries some sort of charge or information to it that that's existing around me and people can sense that.

A thousand percent, which is actually just demonstrated Pisces right there. No, Pisces is the 12th sun. It's like it's aware of the invisible realm and energetics. And Albert Einstein was a Pisces, you know, so that quantum field you have a deep connection to with your chart.

I just did, do you know who Jeffrey Allen is? He's an energy healer. I love Mindvalley. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so he does, he has an energy, it's called duality, and he actually teaches you how to like,

A lot of the things that you just say, I just did this recently. So I'm like, wow, okay, I track. I'm tracking here. Your consciousness can be somewhere that your body isn't. But that's so cool that you taught that. That's awesome. Yeah, that's so cool. How did you learn that? It's a good question. Um...

Through sort of decades of experimentation, I got into energy work at 17. I started practicing and then just a lot of life struggle, which made me think there has to be more tools than I have right now that are available. Experimenting with all different sorts of modalities and then piecing those things together and then seeing really when I was most off track in my life,

It also correlated to being furthest away from any sort of practice that involved

using either a deep sense of creativity and a practice of creativity and a deep relationship with this side of myself, which is, you know, you call it the Pisces or whether it's the sort of experimenting with energetics or, you know, I don't know. You had a couple of other terms that I thought were quite fitting because I've always struggled to explain it. But creativity for me and this realm working hand in hand,

And the podcast is probably the most tangible expression of this because we're putting it into words, which is often kind of hard to explain. And we're having these conversations through different experts and people who have different practices that try to make it tangible because you're like, okay,

If I know that I enter a space before that, or that literally thinking a certain way and sending an intention, not to control someone, but like, I'll often think about you and then immediately you text. Yeah. I'm like, we haven't spoken all day long. And then all of a sudden I'm like, where is she? And boop, there you are. Yes, very watery. I've been making a list of all the things I'm pissed off about, not texting until I pull off. And then I should reach out and say hi. Oh, I can 100% know when she's annoyed.

Without, if we haven't spoken all day. You smell the smoke. Well, yeah. How does that benefit us, right? Like, how do I use it tangibly? I worked with one woman who was a teacher mentor for a little while where she said,

People all have energy and energy frequencies, and that obviously changes as we change and what states we're in. But you can tune into those remotely like a radio channel if you learn to quiet your mind and sort of go into that unknown space. And so anyone listening at home or watching can take a minute and whatever practice they use, I won't go too far into this yet, but they can quiet...

quiet their rational minds for a while, close their eyes and say, okay, let me take my attention like a tuner and put it towards someone who I love or who I'm connected with and just give themselves enough time and quiet to tune into what does that sound and feel like? Are you making it up? Maybe, but also you're entering a void of an unknown where

in outside of our five senses that is probably has a high likelihood of accuracy and similar to the way you described oh we started doing readings and people started to feel oh that's really interesting like doing that remotely connecting to someone

In that way, you can start to get feedback over time that, oh, actually what I felt was really accurate. Oh, they were really going through that. And as we begin to do that, we start to realize we're far more interconnected than we have ever imagined. And that can impact how we're interacting with each other in the physical world by understanding those sorts of non-physical connections. And exactly when you have an astrology chart in front of you, I think it kind of, or a tarot card, it

it gives you something terrestrial, something tangible to radar in on. So it kind of cuts through the noise and that, but I still think it's like, we're doing exact, like what you described is how I feel when I'm doing a reading. I will like focus on someone in that moment when I'm doing a reading, that person's the most important thing. They exist. I'm out of my, I don't exist. I'm focused on them. But having the chart also as a guide,

allows me to know where to anchor the conversation, but it's both, you know? Like, it's both. If you believe, let's say, in God, if you have faith that you're protected by some power greater than yourself, and that even if bad things happen, like they teach you lessons and you can correct and learn different things, where does astrology fit into that?

Meaning, you know, part of me is kind of like, well, everything's going to work out the way it's supposed to. So why should I try and know things and try and change them? Or is that part of sort of God directing people towards resources? Great question. I would, yeah. I would think of it like the weather, like...

you know, God might make rain, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use an umbrella. So astrology is like your umbrella. Do I have any numbers that I should be aware of? Mayim has 18 repeated in her chart. Is there anything specific for me? Tali, take a look. Numbers, you have a 17. There's a 17 in your chart that shows up. So Mayim's got 18. You've got 17, which I believe is a karmic number. My friend who's an astrologer told me that you have

17 degrees Venus and Gemini and Uranus is at 17 degrees, 17 minutes of Scorpio. So that was the only one that I saw repeating, but in your chart in terms of degrees, but you do have an 18 degree Neptune. So there's some 18. Oh, your Neptune is Mayim's son, 18 degrees Sag, Sophie?

No. When you were saying 17, I didn't have any connection to it. I had an instant connection to 17 for him. Because she's more psychic than she thinks. It's not about psychic. Jonathan's whole life changed when his brother was 17 and was thrown from a car. And Jonathan has gotten a new brother. His brother recovered. Yeah.

But it changed Jonathan's life, changed the whole family's life. But a very, very, very significant year. I was 14. My brother was 17. And when you ask, how did they get into this? It was all in the aftermath of this. And actually, I was 17 the first time I started exploring in energy work and getting into this whole field. And that launched me. It was right after my 17th birthday. It was a couple of weeks after my seven or no,

Now I, yeah, I was 17 and it was, it was a few weeks before my 18th birthday that launched me into exploring all of this. It's crazy. Wow. I mean, I think maybe we need to repackage, rebrand the word psychic because it,

conjures up pictures of a storefront window charlatan but the truth is we're all the psychic realm is accessible for all of us and I think what like slowing down the mind tuning in like

It doesn't, you know, anyone, anyone can tap into this. It doesn't matter how educated you are, how scientific you are, how uneducated you are, but it's just, it's a, it's a universal consciousness that I think we all can access. We just get to it in different ways and through different experiences. So Mayim, you are psychic too. Yeah.

The book is The Astrology Advantage by the Adut sisters. Ophira and Tali, thank you so much for being here. And I really enjoyed the book. And also, it's just a great, it's one of these great reference books that you can sort of pull up anytime you need to, want to, and read.

I really appreciated it. And we're so grateful that you came on to talk to us. So thank you so much. Thank you so much. It's really a pleasure to connect with both of you. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I had the best time. Well, Jonathan, besides you saying the longest sentence I've ever heard you say, I learned a lot about you in this episode. Can you repeat that sentence for me? I want to see if you can say it faster. The thing that really surprised me was...

They actually use astrology in a very different way than I thought. I thought this was going to be kind of what you get when you open the astrology pages in Elle magazine, which believe me, I've done.

this went far deeper and kind of far beyond the sort of surface. What's your sign? And they explained how all of the aspects of who we are are comprised of a lot of different factors. And some of them are genetic and some of them are situational or environmental. But a lot of them in this case can be understood in a larger scope of

Really seeing where you fit in the universe, for lack of a better phrase. There are so many different factors that make up how we react to any given situation. And what I liked, the word she used was anchoring. She gives a reading and uses astrology as an anchor point to provide more information. And I do think that the...

practice of astrology is simplified down to the most basic and one of the biggest criticisms of the popular astrology that you read in magazines. It's just basic enough that it can apply to absolutely everyone.

And that's actually the way that most people experience astrology. But that's not what they talked about with us. And this is very different because you're like, oh, based on this particular thing, and they really dive into the very much more specific personality qualities. And I think if you're only going by what's in the newspaper, yeah, it has a level of feeling, I don't know, a little bit scammy or, you know, it's so vague that it doesn't mean anything. And of course it applies. And you hear people really criticize astrology

Anyone who thinks about alternative forms of information like this as, oh, you're just being scammed. And, you know, there are scams in medicine. You go, you're in Los Angeles, you throw a dart at a doctor, you're not going to necessarily get the best doctor. There are people with bad scruples in all areas. And this is, of course, subject to that, given that it's not a regulated practice. But finding someone who really can

get the specifics, I found really fascinating. There was a couple of points where I had not thought about myself in that particular way. Yeah. And I think also what I really appreciated is they're willing to take in a lot of different perspectives to add to

to the knowledge base that they have. And I think that's a neat thing. Like the book can give you your chart and you can get your distribution, but there's so many other factors that have to be included. And I really appreciated them not giving kind of a one size fits all. So really such a pleasure to talk to them. And yeah, a lot more layers to astrology than I thought. And that's it from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time.

It's my B.R.L.X. breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience Ph.D. or if she was. And now she's going to break down. It's a breakdown. She's going to break it down.

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