cover of episode Julia's Book Club – There Are Rivers in the Sky

Julia's Book Club – There Are Rivers in the Sky

2024/10/2
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A Podcast of One's Own with Julia Gillard

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Julia: 本书探讨了跨代知识和创伤,特别是亚兹迪妇女在战争中的经历以及历史的重复。小说通过雨滴的意象连接不同时代和地点的人物,展现了历史的复杂性和不确定性。 此外,书中还探讨了博物馆的角色,以及它们在决定哪些历史被记住和遗忘中的作用。通过亚兹迪妇女的视角,小说揭示了博物馆收藏与文化传承之间的矛盾,以及文化记忆的流离失所。 最后,Julia还提到了Charlotte Wood和Claire Wright的新作,并对澳大利亚作家的国际认可表示赞赏。 Sarah: 小说巧妙地将不同时代和地点的故事交织在一起,探讨了城市与个体之间的关系,以及人物命运的塑造既有自身因素,也有城市和环境的影响。 书中反复出现的《吉尔伽美什史诗》是贯穿故事的重要元素,它以碎片化的形式呈现,引发了对历史叙事完整性的思考。不同版本结尾的差异,以及谁有权书写历史和决定哪些内容被记住的问题,也得到了探讨。 此外,Sarah还分析了亚兹迪妇女的故事,强调了口述历史的重要性,以及在文物被转移的情况下,口述记忆如何成为文化传承的主要方式。小说以真实的方式呈现了她们所遭受的苦难,并展现了女性之间的相互保护和母系记忆的传承。 最后,Sarah还谈到了伊拉克等地区文物被掠夺和破坏的复杂问题,以及小说中提出的“水记忆”理论,认为水在特定情况下会保留溶解物质的记忆,即使经过稀释或净化。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

What is the central theme of Elif Shafak's novel 'There Are Rivers in the Sky'?

The novel explores the interconnectedness of history, culture, and nature through the stories of three characters from different eras, connected by two rivers (the Tigris and the Thames) and the ancient Epic of Gilgamesh. It delves into themes of intergenerational trauma, global inequalities, and the impact of climate change on fragile ecosystems.

How does Elif Shafak use the Epic of Gilgamesh in her novel?

The Epic of Gilgamesh serves as a recurring motif that connects the characters across different time periods. It highlights the fragility of historical narratives and raises questions about who gets to tell history. The novel also plays with two different endings of the poem, emphasizing the role of gender in storytelling and historical interpretation.

What role do museums play in 'There Are Rivers in the Sky'?

Museums are portrayed as institutions that not only preserve history but also actively shape it by deciding what is worth remembering and what is forgotten. The novel critiques the role of museums in cultural appropriation, particularly through the character of Arthur, who works at the British Museum and grapples with the ethical implications of preserving artifacts taken from other cultures.

How does the novel address the Yazidi genocide?

The novel sensitively portrays the Yazidi genocide through the character of Noreen, a young Yazidi girl who experiences the horrors of ISIS's campaign against her people. It highlights the intergenerational trauma faced by Yazidi women, the destruction of cultural memory, and the ongoing reality of women still missing and held in captivity.

What is the concept of 'aquatic memory' in the novel?

Aquatic memory is a theory proposed by one of the characters, suggesting that water retains a memory of the substances it has contained, even after being purified. This concept metaphorically ties into the novel's themes of interconnectedness and the enduring impact of history, as the same drop of water connects the characters across time and space.

How does the novel explore the theme of immigration and identity?

Through the character of Zalika, a hydrologist from a migrant background, the novel examines the challenges of assimilation and identity. Zalika struggles with the expectations placed on her as an immigrant, balancing her cultural heritage with her life in the UK. Her journey reflects broader questions about belonging, cultural memory, and the pressures faced by immigrants to conform while retaining their identity.

What is the significance of the rivers in the novel?

Rivers serve as both literal and metaphorical connectors in the novel, linking characters across different eras and geographies. They symbolize the flow of history, the impact of human actions on nature, and the resilience of ecosystems. The novel also highlights the hidden rivers beneath cities, reflecting the buried histories and memories that continue to shape the present.

How does the novel handle the theme of intergenerational trauma?

The novel portrays intergenerational trauma through the experiences of the Yazidi women, who endure repeated cycles of violence and dispossession. It emphasizes the transmission of cultural memory through oral storytelling and the enduring impact of historical injustices on subsequent generations. The phrase 'the tree remembers what the axe forgets' encapsulates this theme, highlighting how trauma persists long after the oppressors have moved on.

Shownotes Transcript

In this episode of Julia’s Book Club, Julia and co-host Sarah Holland-Batt delve into the latest novel by best-selling author, Elif Shafak. There are Rivers in the Sky charts the story of three characters from across history brought together by two great rivers, with one epic poem flowing through the story. Spanning centuries and continents, the novel follows a single drop of water from the Tigris to the Thames, from antiquity to the 19th century to the modern day.

While exploring the rich histories laid out in the novel, Julia and Sarah also consider its central question – how does history get told, and who gets to tell it? They also reflect on Shafak's exploration of global inequalities across the novel – from the poverty of a class-divided Victorian London, to the far more recent persecution of the Yazidi people (and especially the women) in war-ravaged Iraq, to the impacts of climate change on the fragile ecosystems of rivers like the Tigris and the Thames.

If the name Elif Shafak sounds familiar, that's because we were lucky enough to have her join us on the podcast back in August. If you've not heard it yet, you can catch up with that interview here, or find it wherever you're listening to this episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/elif-shafak-on-the-power-of-storytelling/id1466658814?i=1000666169272.

If you'd like to learn more about Gilgamesh, the epic poem that plays a central role in this novel, and the real-life figure of George Smith who inspired the character Arthur Smyth, you can read Gilgamesh: A New Translation of the Ancient Epic by Sophus Helle.

There are Rivers in the Sky is published by Penguin Australia and is available at all good bookstores. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy) for more information.