432 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Ky Dickens
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You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast and pass them on to you. Perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's walking dead. You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What a bizarre thing we've created.

Now with your host, Adam Thorne. This might either be the worst podcast or the best one of all time. One, go. Enjoy the show. Did you have a preconceived notion of telepathy or spiritual gifts or anything before this?

No, I mean, I think like a lot of people, like the idea of mediums and psychics, it felt like people that are often trying to just make money off of people in really vulnerable situations. Yeah.

And I've always believed certainly there's got to be people who have certain gifts like that, you know, but that the vast majority couldn't be trusted or, you know, I didn't think telepathy could be real. That seems impossible. It just seems impossible. Even things like plant communication felt impossible. Or I mean, I mean, none of that was something that was real.

was like my worldview. You know, I was working on, you know, solving problems around paid family medical leave and making health insurance more affordable and accessible. Like it was not my cup of tea. There we go. That's Rogan talking to Kai Dickinson about telepathy and get into it. Today's guest with me is Ian. Ian is a therapist actually. And, uh,

I haven't talked to you about your experience working with autistic people, but I felt like this was a good show to have kind of, you know, psychologists, a therapist, something like that on just to kind of chat through this. Yeah, well, I mean, it's definitely a pretty interesting conversation, but

I think the first thing that sort of goes without saying, it's like with this episode, we're doing a review of what for a Joe Rogan episode felt like a review of another podcast. Cause that's really what it was. They're saying they're talking about the telepathy tapes, which is Kai's podcast. So we're kind of already two steps removed. Um, but,

You know, plenty of interesting stuff even on the wings of that. Yeah. And just hearing it, it's one of those things where it's like, well, I can't do this research, so I can't verify any of it. But it just seems like, let's say it's not happening and these people don't have any telepathy at all. It's impossible. What a wild...

kind of continued lie it would need to be for all these people to be involved and teachers reporting on it and i mean you could look online you can google it and it's like parents say this like there's lots of stories and that's what she brings up she's like how would a bunch of non-verbal autistic people be conspiring to do this to begin with right like what would that even mean right yeah

Um, you know, it's sort of like the biggest problem with conspiracy theories is how hard it is for people to actually keep a secret and plan something well and how much harder when you can't talk. Right. Yeah. Um, but yeah, very interesting. I think, um, I don't know about you. One of the things I noticed the most is how much I've been wired to be a skeptic.

Oh, yeah. As soon as I read the bio before I even looked at it, and I know nothing about any of these topics, I was like, this sounds like bullshit. Yeah, telepathy? Okay, this will be interesting. Can't wait to hear how nuts this lady sounds. Yeah.

And by the end of it, I'm like, I think I believe in telepathy. Right. Yeah. That was convincing enough. Yeah. And again, we didn't even hear the content, really. I mean, by the end, you know, they gave a couple examples. I listened to the first, just the first episode of hers, just because I kind of had to see what was going on. Of the telepathy tapes? Of the telepathy tapes, yeah. And, you know, she mentions that. It's like...

You know, she gives an example. They bring up – it's actually a Hispanic family, so they had like a translator for a lot of it, which was kind of interesting. But, you know, they just did everything they possibly could to prove it right or wrong. And I think that's what a big – you know, I mean, that's kind of what you have to do with all this. Yeah. Like you have to –

You have to want to know if it's real. And I think that I think I believe Kai that she that's where she's coming from. She's like, what is this? I'm fascinated. Is it true or not?

Yeah. Well, I think what it takes is one of those people that is the like super skeptics. Yeah. Remember they would like travel the country, sometimes go to churches and, and like expose the televangelists for like using headphones, you know, and these aren't radio waves. So it's not like a message from God. Somebody is just like,

Sally and seat 45 just lost their husband. Right. And then he's like, I'm getting a message. Wow. And was that a thing? Yeah. This guy who's like super skeptic. He has a check that he carries around with him. I think it's a million dollars now. And if anyone can prove like psychic ability, he will give you that money. So I'm like, we'll bring him in for this. Yeah. Like he can design the experiment. Yeah. To where he's satisfied. Right.

I haven't heard of this guy. And, yeah, I mean, there's a few people that are trying to expose these, you know, fraudsters. And all of them are exposed. Yeah. You know, every one of them is just trying, they just have different tricks. Well, it's like magicians. Of course. At this point, everybody knows you go to a magic show, it's a trick. Yeah, it's not real. They did not saw that woman in half. Right.

But I think for a while, maybe people thought magicians were the real deal. They were the psychics. They were the...

telepathy. For sure they did. And I don't know, the telepathy. But this is why I'm in that position to where of all the wacky things that sometimes I like to delve into and believe, this one I could just dismiss immediately even without hearing it. I'm like, oh dude, we would know if people had this power. Stakes are up, right? Like if this is the real deal, alright. Like, I want to tune in. I want to know what

Like, keep me posted. Right. I'm going to follow this. It makes me want to, you know, do some of my own studies. Yeah. You know, at least talk to some parents that have had this happen and be like, all right, talk me through this. Yeah. I mean, you know, Kai was discussing how when she was first introduced to this, she'd been hearing these stories. Some teachers and parents discussed it. It seems like teachers are connecting well with kids.

The non-speakers. Yeah. Well, that was actually interesting. The first person she studied was actually a therapist or maybe the first person they talk about on the tapes. A therapist working with, I guess, a nonverbal or a speller, which I don't know if you kind of got what that was. I think it's people who can't speak.

But they can point to letters. And that was a little hard to follow because they're like, okay, what is a speller? And she's like, well, it's not just they're spelling the words out. They've got this interpreter. It was a little confusing. Yeah. It doesn't mean that they're in a spelling bee. Yeah, exactly. They just have someone that helps them physically spell. And I think that is sort of – like I don't know if you've seen these conspiracies about Stephen Hawking lately where people are like, oh, maybe he was –

He wasn't even there, and it was just like this thing. He was like a front man almost. Because you watch initially before he got the speaking spell, he'd sit there and somebody would say, oh, he's saying time travel would be possible if a wormhole were divided in three or some crazy stuff. And you're like, really? You got that out of that? How do we know? That's right. He did have Cambridge-appointed –

Translators. Physicists, basically. Translators. Right. Oh, really? Yeah, they were like PhDs themselves. Okay. So they understood what he could be talking about. Right. And yeah, they would kind of interpret some of the things that he's saying. That's an interesting point. So honestly, like...

It's like, I want to believe, you know, that whole idea of like, I want to believe every time somebody gives me a new conspiracy theory or something, I'm like, all right, like prove it. Yeah. This is a cool one. Yeah. I want to know. Um, I feel like I kind of get jaded. I'm like disappointed now. Cause I I'm, I'm ready for that evidence to be like, yeah, no aliens shot JFK or whatever it is, you know, like,

I'm so ready to believe the most wild stuff, and I'm disappointed that nobody can ever back it up. And that's where it comes down. It's like...

How do you prove these things? And this is why this one's interesting, because I feel like it's very provable. Even with the issue that she said she was coming up against and the pushback that she gets when they're trying to make these stories valid is the speller helper, right? So it's like there's some physical...

But at the same time, I'm like, if you're reading someone's mind that's in a different room and the helper hasn't even seen that person, so there's a definite divide, then... This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. You know when you're really stressed or not feeling so great about your life or about yourself? Talking to someone who understands can really help. But who is that person? How do you find them? Where do you even start? Talkspace. Talkspace.

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Speller was guiding something, then it would just mean they have telepathy. Someone has it. Right. One of the two people have it. Right. Oh, yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah. If I'm thinking, you know...

And the speller's like, well, she said something about blue and square. Even if you think spelling is like a scam, it's like, okay, well, how'd she get it? Exactly. That's my point. Okay. No, they don't have it, but spellers do. So who cares? Somebody does. And, you know, all you have to do is keep switching out the speller to find out if it's the other person. I mean, it's testable. Yeah.

Then though, where do you go from that? Like, let's say for sure, we've scientifically proven it with a bunch of candidates that come in that, you know, seem to be non-speaking candidates.

autistic kids, then it's like, what is it about that that allows this to happen? You know? And can they do brain scans and see if there's some sort of projection thing or like, how are they tuning into it? The how is this like ether knowledge? Yeah. Is that real? Like it, it just can send you down a whole like scientific path of, yeah, those must be one of the most interesting things.

scientific things to explore right now. Yeah, it's got to be interesting. And I mean, I think we've all got that, right? Like she talks about the phone example. You're like thinking of a friend you haven't talked to in two years and they call you up or whatever it is. Or even you're just thinking about your buddy like, oh, what are we going to, oh, I need to call them back and you get a text right away.

I think we all have some kind of experience like that. I think so, but it's so often dismissed. It's like when people are like, oh, I went to this party and someone had the same birthday as me. And there was only like eight people there. Well, then some mathematician breaks it down.

and it's like halves and averages and this and that. And it's like, there's a one in five chance that would have happened. - Exactly. - Like all these coincidences just get kind of brushed off. - How big of a deal are they really? - Right. You know, and they will lay out things like, oh, well you were thinking about this person and then they called you and you hadn't talked to them for a while, but you were also thinking of 12 other people that you didn't pay attention to. So you just- - Confirmation bias. - There's a bit of that. However,

you know, not everything should be, you know, throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's like, if a lot of it is that coincidence, fair enough. Right. But maybe there's something else. Yeah. And when, when you have stuff like this pop up, it makes you think they did say, what was it? The meeting place of the mind is called the hill. Yeah. Very cool. Interesting. Very cool idea. And one person could,

get on the hill that wasn't autistic, but had some other skill. I can't remember. They did some deep dive into thought and consciousness. Into their mind. That's right. So when they showed up, it wasn't in the same capacity. It wasn't as clear. It was more kind of mumbled and blurry and difficult for them to navigate. But it does imply that maybe...

Maybe there is a learned skill potential for anybody. And the only way you can get that is to understand what the heck is happening. Yeah. Yeah. And like, what does that even mean? You know, that's she really went for it. She's like, I think this proves that.

you know, consciousness is what comes first and matter comes second. It's like, Hey, that sure. That's a good theory. Right. Um, I think she went, you know, she went pretty big on that. Right. Like there, you know, this person can tell what number I'm thinking. Therefore,

Matter isn't real. Mind comes first or something. It's like, well, maybe that's a big jump. Yeah. Big theory. It's a big theory. But the hill was wild. She said there was some gal, some kid who was going to this hill, told her family, hey, I'm going I'm going to this hill and I talk to people. Here's all the people I know. And they were crazy.

They were people that the family had never met, this kid had never met, and they verified all these names. That's wild. I'm like, all right, now we're getting somewhere. Now we're getting somewhere. Yeah. Let's explore the hill. Yeah, man. I mean. Running up that hill. Whoa, just how jealous.

Oh, yeah. Are you of not being able to do that? When I hear that, I'm like, wait, there's a place I can never go ever? Yeah. No matter what? Yeah. Get all the money in the world. I am never allowed to go to the hill. Well, she said you just got to meditate. Get to meditate. I'm never going to control my mind well enough to get on the hill. Yeah, that's the problem might be you. Sadly. Sorry. But it's...

And again, that could be testable, right? Yeah. If you've got similar people or the same types of people that are, you know, visiting the hill, you arrange for a meetup, psychic meetup. Yeah. And then one has a message to pass to the other. It could be very simple. Yeah.

And it sounds like it would be impossible for them to keep guessing the right thing. Right. And it sounds like they've tried to do that. And they have, you know, that first telepathy tape. She takes this family and they've got this daughter again, who's, I guess, telepathic or something. And they, you know, they have a three digit random number generator. So nice. You know, one to nine ninety nine or something like that. They do 20 tests and she gets everyone right.

20 out of 20. That would be, what, trillions, squillions to one? Pretty unlikely. Yeah. Yeah. She should probably go play roulette or something. Yeah.

We're going to be in trouble when we start seeing people with groups of non-speaking autistics and they're all in casinos in Vegas. Like, all right, that's exploitation. This is like main man on steroids. Yeah. Yeah, when Tom Cruise takes his brother to the casino, right? To count cards. Yeah, he's like, all right, what can we do with this? Similar. Of course, that's the first thing you'd think of. Yeah, but it's interesting. So that first episode, she like –

She's so thorough. She brings a friend on who's a skeptic, who's a scientist, and she's like, all right, you're my resident skeptic.

Put the blindfold on. See if the blindfold works. Check the camera angles. Is there a reflection in the mirror? Is the TV reflecting something? Make sure we didn't miss anything. They knock out 20 out of 20, and she's like, all right, this is it. We've got evidence. And she has that all online. You can go watch the five different camera angles. You can watch the setup. You can watch all the tests. Yeah. I mean, that's what she says. She's like, yeah, if you want to look at any of this, go for it. It's yours.

So she thinks she's got this bulletproof evidence, right? Something's going on. And she brings it to a few different scientists or psychologists or whatever. And they're like, nah. And they throw it out. Nobody wants to look at it. Why? But this is what got me when I heard it. I'm like, if anyone came to you with this and now you're in a meeting at work and all the rest of the therapists are on there. Yeah.

Would everyone not be really interested? Or would they just be like, you're a lunatic, dude? It seems like a safe enough space for you to bring up something like that and for people to show some interest. Well, if I told you or if you told me this, like, hey, man, I know this is crazy, but I've been, you know, my friend has a kid and he can read my mind. I'd be like, what? No. What do you mean? Like, well, we tried it.

I'm like, well, like he could tell you were angry or something like, oh, he could read your mind. You're like, no, we had a random number generator. I was in another room and I guessed the number. He got it right 20 times in a row.

I would tell everybody if that happened to me. I'd be blown away. I wonder if then you become like those people in the 80s that were like, I was abducted by aliens and they're like, everyone, that's John. Right. John's always telling wild stories. Except John knows where the alien lives and he can be like, yeah, come over. I'll introduce you. The alien abducts me every Tuesday. There would be a lot of validity in that. Yeah, exactly. For sure. It's not a one-off thing. So if, yeah, if the, if the technology

Tests like that are legit. And this is why shows like Rogan are fantastic. One, he's brave enough to have people like that on. He talks for three hours, so it's not a five-minute segment on CNN that probably just gets, you know, they just ridicule her or just make it look silly. Bring some other expert on who's like, no, this is why it doesn't work. Right.

But now there's so much exposure. We're talking millions and millions of people will watch this episode. I mean, you know. And twice as much with your listeners. Oh, right. Well, tens of thousands will listen, even to us discuss it. It's like there are people out there that are going to start building momentum for this lady. People want to know about this. This is really interesting.

I mean, I was pumped to have this conversation with you. Yeah. Yeah. Same. I had to drag you in on a Sunday. You did. Thank you. Yeah. It was kicking and screaming, but glad it happened. Would I have even listened to it? I don't know. You know, it's like you hear these things. Oh, somebody proving telepathy is real. You're like, yeah, yeah. And yeah.

And the aliens are real too. And maybe they are, you know, but it's like, I think we're changing minds. I think inevitably you hear things like this enough and you can only be a skeptic for so long, right? They use the example of like the new world, you know?

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I think there's a whole nother continent, you know, there's a whole nother half of the world. We've never found people like, eh, all right. Yeah. Cool, man. Like, sure. Maybe, maybe. And turns out there was, you know, yeah. Before we discovered the Americas, we didn't know that like,

there's twice as much earth. Sure. Right. Yeah. And it took some lunatic who thought he ended up in India, by the way. Right. Right. Like he, he wasn't even right about what he thought. Um, and, and I think that's an interesting question. It's like, you've got to follow your hunch. Yeah. And, and, you know, you don't know what you're proving, but I think eventually it's like, follow that hunch and like, keep digging. If you're,

Maybe you'll turn something up. Right. You may not even understand what it is. And there is a scientific process. Yeah. Right. Right. Can it, that often is quite difficult to apply to certain things you're testing for. Yeah. But this one seems like it would line up match and work for that process. And once it's explained, I mean, I just ran the numbers on that guessing 20 things. Yeah.

And it's 100 to the power of 20 odds. The word is duodecillion.

It's so many billions that you don't even know what it means. Take a while to write it down. Yeah. Nice. You know? Yeah. It's basically those sorts of numbers are like more atoms than in the universe chance. So is that 100 followed by 20 zeros? Is that what that means? I think so. Yeah. It's a lot of zeros. Mm-hmm. Dang. Billion is what? Nine. Nine zeros? Yeah. Yeah.

It's a lot more. Yeah, so when you're working with those kind of odds, it basically is 100% chance that that person has telepathy. Right. Yeah, or there's some magic tricks going on. Or it's the most amazing guess. Yeah. Or series of guesses. Or a really clever gag. Right. But at a certain point, right, like the gag, that's the thing about magicians, right? One guy cuts somebody in half.

Give it enough time. Somebody else figures out how they did the trick. Like you can't keep the trick going on forever. No. And that's the whole point of like science and doing all these tests at a certain point. You're like, all right,

Like we would have figured out the trick by now. Well, it's all about repeatable studies. Yeah. That's what makes something valid. Yeah. You could find one outcome one time, no matter how amazing it is and how well the study was put together. It doesn't mean anything until they've repeated it three or four times. Okay. That's just how it goes. So they just have to keep doing this one. So let's say this is real. Okay. Then what?

That's the question. So there's a few things I've been thinking about with that. Yeah.

then what? Like, where do we go from here? But also thinking back, the non-verbal or non-speaking autistic people have existed in the past. How many of these hills or conversations have carried on? What knowledge is being passed around in that area? What can be known? I mean, what made me think about it is Kai mentioned one individual who

could read hieroglyphics, yet they definitely had never seen any. And no one that knew them could decipher any of those things. Yeah, there's this thing cuneiform B, I think it is, something B, and it's this ancient script that nobody's been able to translate. I know Joe Rogan brought up that manuscript, and that's cool, but that's definitely more in the realm of just like

unless it's some secret to the universe or something. But cuneiform B, it's an example in linguistics where nobody's ever figured it out. Is it for sure ancient text? They know it's on old tablets. Yeah, this is not like...

a one-off thing. It's something they find, I think, regularly. And they're just like, eh, we don't really know what to do with it. And we can't decipher any of it. Yeah. Well, I mean, hieroglyphics, we couldn't decipher until like late 1800s when somebody found the Rosetta Stone. That's a good point. Oh, dang. Yeah. Here we go. And we're just hitting our head against a wall before that. But yeah, it would be amazing to sit one of these kids down and say,

Hey, can you make any sense of this? The only problem with the outcome of that is it would be hard to verify. Yeah. Right? I mean, not necessarily. Because, I mean, that's like...

you know, linguistics in a nutshell. It's like cracking a code. Like, you know, you crack the code like in World War II. Oh, yeah. Because you can translate a bunch of things that make sense. Right. You know, you're like, oh, they just gave us coordinates to where the sub is. And it's 100 miles different a day later. That's a good point. So if you if you then if

Ask them, all right, so we're going to, based on what you told us, we're going to write another type of sentence based on that and with these patterns. And then we'll have you read that one. Yeah, or just like translate this one for us. Great. And now we go translate 30 things and they're like, oh, they're saying like how much copper they had in the warehouse. And it all just starts making sense. Yeah.

Yeah. Imagine if it's just stories about nonverbal autistic kids and how they can read minds. And it's like, what? Oh, man. We were waiting for this. Yeah. That'd be some like Inception kind of stuff. I've never even heard of that language. That's interesting. I don't think it's like – it's not like the hieroglyphics where we've got these crazy tombs with all this mysterious writing. It's like –

some clay tablets. But still, it's cool stuff. I would like to know about it. Yeah, exactly. And that is interesting that you say, you know, it's known in linguistics as like, you know, probably lots and lots of people have tried to decide for this. They probably have AI on it. Yeah, they probably already figured it out and I'm just

Don't know anything anymore. We'll look into it. Yeah, typed it into chat GPT. But yeah, other than kind of going back and thinking about through history who noticed this, who has utilized this for different things. I mean, it wouldn't be weird now to hear a story of, you know, Alexander the Great.

having some sort of mystic person. Like Sears. That was able to kind of help him figure out where the armies are, you know? And...

Those sorts of stories are easy to just dismiss. Be like, oh, they were just into their weird witchcraft, religious stuff back then. But then all of a sudden you're like, hold on. Maybe people did know something. And that leads into where do we go from here? Totally. Which is really exploring this land. Yeah. And even just like you and I or anybody else who hears this podcast, you know, listens to her telepathy tapes. It's like, what do you make of it? Like, um,

People can read minds people can go to some place in their mind and talk to other people and they all have the same story And that that was an interesting part. She's like hey, this is nothing new like thinking that You can get messages in a dream. This is nothing new right like that's true This is something that most cultures most Individuals have some experience in or belief in right so

If anything, the oddity here is the fact that our mainstream thought, our science, writes it all off. It'd be like if...

you know, mainstream science is like, well, emotions, those aren't really real, right? Like you can't prove them. I know everybody says they feel them, but like, yeah, I mean, show me one in a lab. Right. Put your finger on it, put it in a box, put it in a test tube. You can't. Give me a 10 milliliters of anger. Yeah, that's right. Although that might be a little easier. I guess hormones are a thing. It's just a bunch of adrenaline. Yeah. You know, it's a good point. And,

you know, back to the, the whole kind of, it's a different place. I mean, in a way we kind of do that with dreams, right? Right. When we have a dream, we're in a different place. And, and,

you know, obviously it's all internal, right? It's just happening in your mind, but maybe there's something that the, I mean, if people can read your mind, maybe they can interact with the dream portion of you too. And there could be a whole opening there that's similar to the phenomena of like lucid dreaming, for example. Right. And if you're out there and you're listening to this and you've never lucid dreamed, you

Hopefully one day that happens to you in your life. Often it's just random. You can kind of train for it. They have some books that are pretty useful. And it is one of the strangest experiences you can ever have. Fully waking up, but being in your dream.

And seeing the detail and the complexities, oftentimes the colors are like even more astounding than real life. And then you're like, oh, we can just make this in our minds. It really makes you think when you wake up, oh, I'm definitely making all of what I see just through the interpretation. It's like my brain is, everything's reflecting. I see the people, it's bouncing off the walls, all these things. That is...

being then reconstructed in my mind. Right. And we often just don't think of it that way. Yeah. Just like, Oh, I'm just looking around. Well, they talk about that. Like,

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The electromagnetic spectrum, like our eyes see 1% of what's truly visible in like a scientific sense or something like that. Shrimp see like 100 times more than we do some random shrimp. Can see way more than we do whatever the heck that purpose is for. Like I don't know what a shrimp needs to see, but something. Can they see like infrared or something, which is like really unusual? Or maybe that's goldfish.

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, snakes see... They have like a little nose almost, and they can see infrared. They have like a second set of eyes.

Uh-huh. Quote, unquote, eyes. And they can, like, see a mouse in the dark. They can feel the heat. Right. They can see the heat, basically. And don't they say sharks can pick up, like, electric signals in the ocean? Yeah, probably. They have some sort of sense for that. I mean, it is a good point, right? It's like, even right now in this room, we have Wi-Fi. Yeah.

Yeah. Technically with that, you can have all the information that has ever been stored anywhere is there. Right. Now, I guess this is not a great example because the computer has to ask for it. Yeah. Maybe radio waves are better. Yeah. They're all in this room for all of the stations that are close to where we are. We can't hear any of them. Right. But if we have... Well, the phone can see the Wi-Fi and we can't. That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways. Yeah. Yeah.

What are we missing? Who knows? Well, I just think that there are obviously a lot to still discover that we don't know about. Yeah. And on top of that, it's like, you know, what are these places like? Oh, man. Don't you want to go? I want to know what's going on on the hill. Yeah. I wish there was more of a description of what they see as well. She kind of got into that, like describing...

You know, how the image appears and. Well, it sounds like they're making like a video documentary and she has some nonverbal people on the team and they're working on the art. That's great. They're going to like draw the hill. Yeah. What a good idea. Isn't that cool? They're the only ones that could do it. Yeah. They've been there. Make it make sense for us. It's like Marco Polo. Like, tell us about what you saw. Yeah.

What did you think about the teacher that noticed that one of her students could basically communicate with her at any point? She could be at home and she had to kind of create a boundary and say, hey, you can't keep jumping into my mind. I'm an adult. I'm doing adult things. You're a child. It's not appropriate. Like what a strange boundary, ethical thing.

dilemma that is. I think this is the most interesting part of this is like, all right, like what have you, when have you seen this? Right. Like I was thinking about this, Joe Rogan was talking about aliens and like on this episode and how like you read these, you watch these people who are like, yeah, I work at the secret facility. I'm a whistleblower. You know, they've got aliens down there and they've got all this and they're doing all this stuff. And he's like, you don't believe it. Like it doesn't,

sound true but like he gives this example of somebody his friends that got attacked by a brown bear in alaska and he's like when somebody tells you that story it just reads as true right like you can't make that up the way this guy is telling this story you can't make it up

Well, that was Steve Rinella and his crew from Meat Eater and then Other Hunters. So like very serious, legit people that aren't likely to be – when a bunch of them decide to fabricate a story like that, it's pretty lame if it isn't true. Right. It's like, come on, like –

Yeah. You of all people don't need to make this up. You've got enough cool stories on this topic. And then, yeah, the point there is what, what adds to the credibility is like, you know, none of these people are known for exaggerating really any other types of stories. So with like aliens, I don't know if you've ever had, if you have a friend or have anyone, you know, personally that has told you an experience of like, dude, I saw this thing. I don't know what it is.

I could be wrong, but this is what I saw. Oh, yeah. And you're like, damn. Like it hits different. For a while, it was a question I asked almost everybody. Yeah. In my lifetime, I've had a point where I was just like with –

You know, people that I just get to know are friends. I'm like, hey, just curious. You ever had this? Yeah. I'm always fascinated. And a lot of people. It's mostly just something in the sky they couldn't explain. Is that a thing, like podcasters and aliens? Like you're all just interested in aliens? Well, I certainly am. And I'm a podcaster. Two out of two. Yeah. It's like right away. It seems like a lot of podcasters are interested in that. That's true. But, you know.

I guess we're a weird bunch. Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, we've all got something. I think that's where this conversation to me gets more interesting. It's like you ask anybody just like just like the aliens, I guess, maybe not as much. But you ask anybody about what they're talking on the about on the telepathy tapes. Like, what have you experienced? And I guess you personally, Adam, like, have you ever had something like this happen where you're like, man, no.

I can't really explain it any other way. Like dreams. You mentioned dreams. Have you ever had like a dream where you're like, dang, I dreamt that my car was going to break down and this random dude was going to like, you know, whatever, find a mouse in my ignition switch or something. And then, whoa, the next day there was a mouse in my ignition or anything like that. Sadly, I haven't had that type of coincidence line up. Sure. However,

and a lot of people experience this, I've had some very bizarre deja vu moments. And they feel very much when they're happening is like, well, one, they feel very real. Yeah. And I know they get dismissed quickly as just like your brain spasming for a second or whatever they say about it. But there are experiences where I'm like, oh, I've not only done this before, this is actually an old memory. Yeah.

So I've known about doing this thing before for a long time. Yeah. And there's something odd there that happens. I think that's the most interesting thing about what she's doing. It's not that unfamiliar.

Like if you read an article that said somebody just proved scientifically undeniably that you can tell when somebody's – a close friend is about to call you. You'd be like, no shit. That makes sense. I don't know how they proved it. That's wild that that's true. But it's not like someone is saying –

I don't know. We live on a different planet. We never knew it. Right. You're like, it's not that far fetched. Yeah. And I would, I don't need a ton of evidence to be like, Oh, there's something here. Yeah. I mean, there are just unexplained things that we just know. Yeah. That's how it is. Yeah. It's like the little bit of magic. I mean, it's the placebo effect with medicine. Yeah. 50% of the efficacy of any medication that works is,

is the placebo effect. It's just that you knew you took it and then somehow you're actually feeling better. Yeah. It's very strange. Right. And, you know. It's amazing that we don't study how to use that.

Well, we kind of do because we make medicine that way. So there's this, and it's its own level of contradictory because you've got on the one hand all the rigors that go into testing and medicine and the science behind it and it's very scientific. You know, they want to make it provable and they have to represent it and then there's pushback. Yet there's this whole other half of the chemistry and they're like, well, this bit, we just name it this, but it's basically magic. Yeah.

And we don't know. And that's your background is biochem, right? Yeah. Yeah. I didn't deal with medicines much. I just know what the placebo is and kind of how it relates to medicine. Yeah. But in a similar way, it's like there's a space for this telepathy. Totally. It's like, all right, we can't explain it. It's kind of like magic. Yeah. And we'll just put it in the box next to all the rest of this stuff. Did you ever see...

The Men Who Stare at Goats. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's like the CIA thing. Yeah, and it was sort of like a sort of documentary thing.

Like at the beginning of the movie, they say some of the events in this are true, which is a funny way to start something, right? They don't tell you what. There's some truth in this. The military forever has been like, they're sort of the least skeptical when it comes to studying things. They're like, all right, is this bullshit?

Who knows? Let's find out. Yeah, they've studied, what do they call it, astro-projecting? Yeah. They've studied this for a long time. Yeah. Because they're like, hey, if it works, we don't really care why or how. It's super valuable. Or if it's weird, if we can use it, we will. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, hopefully they don't get it first. It makes you think, like, what else are they studying? If you could see all the absurd things they'd studied, I bet you'd just...

bust over laughing. Oh, no doubt. They're trying everything. You give them a big enough budget, they're going to try. I mean, they were like the first ones who were interested in psychedelics. They're like, yeah. That's true. Maybe we could gas all of Germany with LSD. Well, there's that. Maybe they should have. There's that whole video of those British soldiers on LSD. It's like black and white. It's real old. And they're just walking around the woods and they're just trying to see if they follow orders. And they're just all laughing.

Yeah. Like none of them are doing anything useful. They're like, all right, maybe this doesn't work. Yeah. You know? Well, maybe it does. Maybe you just pour it in your enemy's water supply. Right. And watch them all giggle. Yeah. They probably thought they'd turn into super soldiers, could read minds or something. Something. Yeah. They just...

Would you look at a bug or something? Would you, if this is like research fully, they go into a deep, they're like, you know, they create a process for like, this is kind of what we think happens and how they get their minds there. And then they come up with some sort of training for it, even if it's like quite complicated and long.

Wouldn't you want to do that? I would want to train to be able to be even a tiny bit telepathic. Yeah. How useful could that be? Yeah. Well, I think it's interesting because, right, I'm a therapist and so much of what you have to do in a therapy room is lean into the intuitive side of being a human, right? Like if you're too rational, like...

Who wants to talk to someone about like the nitty gritty inner part of life if you're just talking to somebody who's in their head, like just analyzing you? I don't want to do that. If I'm trying to work out something real and big, I want somebody who's like deep in it, in life, like in their own experience, in my experience, like all in, right? Yeah. And I think if we're all in our head, if we're like thinking in the theory, like that doesn't

Do much for me.

When I'm interacting with someone like that, I don't get a lot out of it. Sometimes it seems like the more detail somebody goes into describing something, let's say a scary event that happened in your lifetime. Yeah. The more detail you go into while you're sat in front of me explaining it, the more you concentrate on the details to get as much information to me. It's almost like the further away you get from the emotion of the actual thing. It's like...

I was very scared during this. Well, I need to know how scared, but also what happened.

But then ultimately the details are not as important as like how big is this fear and how much of it are you carrying all the time. That's the message that's hard to get. I don't need to understand. I need to feel you. Right. More or less. It seems more helpful if you're trying to figure out how to help that person. Now, as an investigator or a police officer or a detective, you need those. You're not looking to –

to kind of cure something with the individual, you need the story. So there's just different ways of doing it. Yeah. As a police officer on an, on an investigation, you don't,

it might not even be helpful to know how someone felt. Sure. Right? You've got to know where you can go with the facts. Right. Okay, did they turn left or did they turn right? Yeah, if they say that they were massively afraid and in shock, you're like, I believe you. But it also might make their story less credible because people can't

remember things as well under those conditions. They might just be too stressed. Yeah. Well, maybe autism is going to save the world. The whole Temple Grandin thing, she could see what the cows could see. What does that mean? I don't know. Who is this? Temple Grandin. So she was like, I think in the 70s, she's an autistic girl and she had some really good like

mentors that like believed in her because she's very sharp, you know, and she kind of got pushed, kind of stuck in the corner at school and eventually found like some mentors who are like, Hey, no, you know, you're very, you're very bright. You're very coherent. Let me help you out. Let me find an area where you can put your uniqueness to the, you know,

To work. Yeah, put it to work. And she actually sort of revolutionized, ironically, cattle slaughtering. But because she was able, she could go into a feedlot. She was really interested in animals. She could go into a feedlot or go into a slaughterhouse and be like, what are you doing? This is the stupidest thing ever. Like, you know, if...

She could see, right? Like they see a reflection and it spooks them or they hear a loud noise and it freaks them out. And, you know, God bless them. A bunch of like cattle, roughnecks, right? They don't care. They're like, ah, dumb cows. Like push them through. Push harder if they're not going to push harder, that kind of thing. Right. And she developed this whole – there's a good movie on it. But –

She developed this whole, like, this new method of getting them through a dunk tank because you've got to put them through a dunk tank to, like, sterilize them before you kill them and things like that. And she created this system where you could offload a ton of cows and you could get them going through at a steady stream and just –

get them through to the slaughter and then they were less they're very calm right yeah and a bunch of things yeah along with it exactly a bunch of things you could only know if you could see it the way the cows are seeing it um and that's like a little less supernatural right because you just get it you're like oh they're freaking out i can think like a cow i know how a cow works right

And, you know, like Cesar Millan, the dog trainer, like anybody who's good at what they do, we kind of grant that. We're like, oh, I'll give you that. You understand it better than anyone else. You can see this in a way that nobody else can. Yeah. And we're very comfortable with that.

But that was her thing. She's very autistic and she was able to have this brilliant insight into something that like rationally trying to hit your head against a wall you'd never get to. Nice. I want to check that out for sure. I mean, you know, thank goodness she came up with something really useful for that skill. Because when you first started to talk about it, I thought to myself, how lame is that?

That if you get the type of telepathy where you can only communicate with cows. With cows, right. And you just like, all they do is think about grass. Yeah.

And mooing. You're like, listen to me, everybody. They're like, all right, cool. We believe you. Moving on. It's like, of course it was thinking about grass. That's what they, you know. I could have told you that. It just goes nowhere. Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. All right. So there's more examples of this type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. I got to check out the telepathy tapes. I want to. I think it's a series. It's not that long, right? It's like six.

I think so. I'm looking forward to the movie. I want to check it out. I want to see the movie. And more importantly, I want to see if this picks up any more momentum and, you know, becomes something that is accepted, analyzed, studied, and, um...

you know, I, in a weird way, it's giving, it gives the potential of a large voice to people that can't even speak at all. Yeah. And I think for me, the most interesting follow-up after all this is like, I'm going to talk to more people about this. Be like,

Yeah. When do you think of somebody before they call? Or have you ever had moments where you had a dream and it came true? I don't know. It's interesting. Why not talk about it? It's cool. Yeah. Because you might just find, oh, this is happening all the time to people. Yeah. And it's one of those things that just doesn't get talked about. And it gets easily dismissed. And they're good stories. It's good stories. All right. Thank you, Ian, for being here. Thanks, everyone, for listening. We appreciate you as always. And-

Check this one out. And we'll talk to you guys later. Adios.

Please take me back.

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