cover of episode Luminous: Is It The Drug Or Is It The Trip?

Luminous: Is It The Drug Or Is It The Trip?

2024/11/2
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Charles Raison
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David Olson
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Rachel Harris
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Steve
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Topics
Steve: 本期节目探讨了迷幻药疗效的两种主要观点:是迷幻体验改变了人们对生活的看法,还是药物本身重塑了大脑? David Olson: 迷幻药辅助疗法存在可及性问题,因为它需要在临床环境下进行,成本高昂且复杂。许多人无法获得这种治疗。他正在研究新型药物“精神可塑剂”,这种药物不产生幻觉,但能修复大脑结构,从而治疗精神疾病,并提高可及性。 Charles Raison: 传统的抗抑郁药和迷幻药的作用机制不同,前者降低焦虑,让人感觉更好,但可能导致情绪麻木;后者放大情绪,让人直面问题。迷幻药的疗效是源于其对大脑的直接生物学作用,还是迷幻体验本身,这是一个关键问题。他正在研究在睡眠中服用迷幻药的效果。 Rachel Harris: Rachel Harris 研究了地下迷幻治疗网络,发现大多数治疗师都是女性。这些女性治疗师经验丰富,她们关注的是人们生活态度的转变,而不是症状的缓解。她们的培训方式与大学研究人员不同,她们更强调传承和经验积累。 David Olson: 迷幻药可以通过促进神经元突触连接的重建来修复大脑前额叶皮层,从而治疗抑郁症、创伤后应激障碍和精神分裂症等疾病。新型药物“精神可塑剂”的作用机制与选择性血清素再摄取抑制剂(SSRIs)不同,它能快速有效地修复大脑结构,并可能减少副作用。通过对迷幻药分子的化学结构进行微调,可以去除其致幻作用,保留其对神经可塑性的影响。新型药物的目标是安全有效,方便患者在家服用,并结合远程心理治疗,从而提高可及性。虽然迷幻药辅助疗法具有创新性,但其可及性有限,而新型药物有望惠及更广泛的人群。 Charles Raison: 迷幻药和传统的抗抑郁药疗效不同,选择哪种疗法取决于患者的具体情况和需求。传统的抗抑郁药的作用是降低焦虑,让人感觉更好,但可能导致情绪麻木;而迷幻药则相反,会放大情绪,让人直面问题。迷幻药的疗效是源于其对大脑的直接生物学作用,还是迷幻体验本身,这是一个关键问题。一些公司试图通过调整迷幻药分子结构来去除其致幻作用,从而实现更便捷的治疗,但这忽略了迷幻体验的重要性。作者认为迷幻体验本身可能对疗效至关重要,去除致幻作用可能会影响疗效。创伤性经历可以改变人的生活,这表明体验本身可以导致长期的改变。迷幻药对大脑的影响机制尚不清楚,需要进一步研究。人们对是否需要神秘体验才能获得迷幻药的全部疗效存在争议。除了神秘体验外,“情感突破”和“心理洞察”也可能对疗效有贡献。迷幻药可以帮助人们在短时间内获得心理治疗的效果。迷幻药也可能导致“灵性绕路”,即人们回避现实问题而沉迷于灵性体验。作者分享了自己的迷幻体验,并认为这种体验帮助他更好地理解了迷幻药。 Rachel Harris: 作者研究了地下迷幻治疗网络,发现大多数治疗师都是女性。这些女性治疗师冒着被捕的风险,为人们提供治疗。作者认为自己与地下女性治疗师的经历和胆量不同。这些女性治疗师与植物精灵或祖先等存在有更强的联系。作者承认,她研究中的一些内容可能听起来难以置信。作者认为,区分内在体验和外在实体之间的界限非常困难。大学研究人员和地下女性治疗师的目标和方法不同。地下女性治疗师关注的是人们生活态度的转变,而不是症状的缓解。地下女性治疗师的培训方式与大学研究人员不同,她们更强调传承和经验积累。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why are psychedelics considered to have the potential to transform mental health treatment?

Psychedelics are seen as transformative because they can produce profound changes in perception, emotion, and cognition, leading to significant improvements in conditions like depression, anxiety, and PTSD. Research has shown that these substances can facilitate deep emotional breakthroughs and mystical experiences that can have long-lasting positive effects on mental well-being.

Why is there a debate over whether the therapeutic benefits of psychedelics come from the trip or the drug itself?

The debate centers on whether the profound psychological experiences (the 'trip') are necessary for the therapeutic benefits of psychedelics, or if the chemical changes in the brain (the 'drug') are sufficient. Some researchers, like David Olson, are exploring the possibility of creating non-hallucinogenic versions of these drugs to broaden access and reduce the intensity of the experience.

Why is the scalability of psychedelic therapy a major concern for researchers like David Olson?

The scalability of psychedelic therapy is a major concern because it typically requires a clinical setting with multiple healthcare providers, making it expensive and inaccessible to many people. Additionally, certain conditions like schizophrenia or heart problems can exclude individuals from treatment. Non-hallucinogenic versions of these drugs could potentially be taken at home, making them more widely available.

What is the primary goal of David Olson's research with psychoplastogens?

David Olson's research with psychoplastogens aims to create drugs that can repair the prefrontal cortex and reestablish synaptic connectivity without the hallucinogenic effects. These drugs could be taken at home, making them more accessible and potentially avoiding the side effects associated with traditional SSRIs.

Why are psychedelics considered a radical alternative to traditional antidepressants?

Psychedelics are considered a radical alternative to traditional antidepressants because they work through a different mechanism. While SSRIs aim to balance neurotransmitters over time, psychedelics can rapidly induce neuroplasticity and profound psychological experiences that can lead to immediate and lasting changes in mental health. This approach is often seen as more holistic and transformative.

Why is the experience of a psychedelic journey important according to Chuck Raison?

According to Chuck Raison, the experience of a psychedelic journey is important because it can lead to emotional breakthroughs and psychological insights. These experiences can help individuals face and resolve deep-seated issues, leading to long-term improvements in mental health. The experience itself, not just the biological changes, is believed to be a key factor in the therapeutic benefits.

What are the risks and challenges associated with underground psychedelic healing practices?

Underground psychedelic healing practices involve significant risks, including legal repercussions and potential harm to participants. These practices are illegal, and practitioners risk arrest and imprisonment. Additionally, the lack of regulation and oversight can lead to unsafe conditions and adverse outcomes. Despite these risks, many practitioners feel compelled to continue because of the profound positive effects they have witnessed.

Why do the women elders in the psychedelic underground have a different approach compared to university researchers?

The women elders in the psychedelic underground have a different approach because they focus on long-term transformation and spiritual growth rather than symptom reduction. They often work with individuals over many years, providing ongoing support and guidance. Their methods are more holistic and deeply rooted in spiritual and indigenous practices, which differ from the more clinical and research-driven approach of university scientists.

Shownotes Transcript

For all the talk about how psychedelics might transform psychiatric care, there's still a fascinating question at the heart of psychedelic science. Is it the mind-blowing experience that fundamentally changes a person’s outlook on life? Or is it the powerful molecules that rewire the brain?Original Air Date: December 16, 2023Interviews in this hour:Does psychedelic therapy need the trip?) - Will psychedelics replace antidepressants?) - Spiritual warriors in the psychedelic underground)Guests:David Olson), Charles Raison), Rachel Harris)Never want to miss an episode? Subscribe to the podcast.)*Want to hear more from us, including extended interviews and favorites from the archive? *Subscribe to our newsletter.)