Classic Desert Island Discs - Ian Wright
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who said his job would be waiting for him if football didn't work out, that persuaded him to take the deal. Thank goodness he did. He would go on to become world-class, one of the greatest strikers of his generation, the second-highest scorer of all time at Arsenal, and to earn 33 caps for England.

Enthusiasm, exuberance and flair were his defining characteristics on the pitch. A superstar player whose enormous skill was matched by his love of the game. Now a successful pundit, he remains as passionate and opinionated...

as ever. He says, as time goes by, people realise you're an honest bloke who'll stand in your corner. It suits some people to sling mud, but they can't take away what I've done. I just want to be remembered for being a hard-working, honest professional who did the best he could with the opportunity he got. Ian Wright, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Thanks, Laura. Make you even well up. You're well enough, just do the intro. Gosh, when I hear you say those things, you know what I mean, it brought me back to my foreman.

And it was a time where Palace offered me a trial like two times by then. And I turned them down twice because, like you mentioned, I had a young family. Sean was already three and a bit. Bradley was just born. And I really couldn't afford to go through another trial and another rejection and give up the chance to have this really good job. I've just finally got where they were going to actually teach me a trade. So I turned Palace down three times and he was the one who said to me, listen, I'll keep the job for you and you go and see how you can do.

Fortune just turning on a sixpence. Let's start with your beloved Arsenal. So many high points during your time there. What were your personal best moments? If you were making the show real, what would be on it? I think the first league game I played at Southampton and it was with my dear friend David Roe Castle. We grew up on the same estate. I've known David since he was five and I was like nine. And he was an inspiration to the whole estate because when he was 15, 16...

He got signed by Arsenal as a youth team player and he was the one who used to always meet me. When you go from Onoroka State to the other side of Broccoli to Crofton Park, you'd have to go across a bridge and he'd meet there and I'd be coming back from the youth club, not doing anything, like 18, 19 at the time, and he would always dig me out about wasting time. You should be playing, you should be trying to get in. It's moments like this where it's difficult to speak about him because...

He was always looking out for me, wanted me to do the very best I can with the opportunity. So when I got to Arsenal and our first league game was away to Southampton and I scored at Attrick in the game and David scored the other goal. And it's the best football match I've ever played in. I mean, he died tragically young, didn't he? 33, Hodgkinson's lymphoma. Even with the Premier Leagues, the FA Cups, the Golden Boots and...

All the stuff that comes personally and from the team, that sticks out more than anything simply because it just brings me back to when we were both on the bridge and he just wanted me to do the best I could with my opportunity. So I don't think of the personal accolades or the trophies or anything that I've won, the England caps, which mean the world to me. All I think about is the fact I played with him for a year.

As a professional. I mean, I'm not surprised that you're so emotional talking about him. And I wanted to ask you next about what must be a hugely memorable match for you. But, you know, hearing you talk about him, it must be all the more so. You were playing Bolton Wanderers in 1997, waiting to become Arsenal's highest scorer of all time. And you were wearing a shirt underneath your other shirt that had 179 just done it. But you'd had it on for like five months.

You took quite a few matches by that point. I know, but the reason why I had five games before I'd done it is I was so nervous. I've been so nervous in my whole life. Literally forgot how to shoot. My legs turned to lead. And then when I finally done it, I scored a hat-trick in the game to do it.

When I went home that night, I couldn't sleep because I felt a sense of accomplishment. And it took me back to the fact that I got in so late into the game. People don't realise I was 28 when I got to Arsenal. And so to score the goals at the rate and the level I was scoring because I had such great players around me, it was very hard to contemplate.

comprehend what I'd done. And you know what? When I really realised what I'd done is when Tyrion rebroke the record. That's when I realised I was top of that tree for like eight, nine years. But like I say, I would easily have given all of that up for another 20 years with my dear friend.

We've got so much to talk about today, Ian. But of course, first, we've got to dig into your music, the first of your eight discs. Why have you chosen this one? Well, I know people would never, ever guess this one, but this is a song from the film Shawshank Redemption. And it's Mozart. The Marriage of Figaro.

What I used to do with this song is when I used to go to Arsenal, and I'd live about an hour away, this would be the first song I would play because I want to be calm and I want to build to a crescendo. So by the time I get to Avenal Road, when I'm close to Arsenal, I'm probably blasting out The Prodigy or something like that. But this is what I would start with. MUSIC PLAYS

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From the soundtrack to the film, the Shawshank Redemption, that was part of Duettino Solaria from Mozart's Marriage of Figaro, performed by Edith Mathis and Gundula Janovitz with the orchestra of the Berlin Opera, conducted by Carl Böhm. So, Ian Wright, what about your relationship with Arsenal fans? You have a very special connection with them. What did their appreciation mean to you? I can't, it's very difficult to try and explain everything.

the Arsenal fans, the Crystal Palace fans, firstly. I remember it was the Crystal Palace away fans. They sponsored me literally all the way through my Palace career and I will love them forever for that. Obviously, the Arsenal fans as well. When I went to Arsenal, it ramped up the pressure, the media spotlight, the national spotlight you're now under because when I went there, they were champions twice out of the last three years. So the spotlight is on you. And so...

Fans from other clubs are going to try and do everything they can, especially with somebody as volatile as I was some of the times on the pitch. They're going to try and upset you. They're going to try and get you off your game. And when you hear that you go somewhere and they're booing your every touch, and then you can hear from the Arsenal fans, they start singing your name. It actually makes you feel like you've got someone here watching you. Someone's got your back. I can't tell you what that feels like because they see that you need that help. Then they help you. You score. You all celebrate together. It's like...

It can't get any better than that. I see football players now scoring goals and they're very serious about it. You think to yourself, what are you doing? You're playing the game to score for that unbelievable adrenaline buzz that you can't get from anything else and you're suppressing it. You know what I mean? I love the fact that I could share it with them at that particular moment and you run in, you get booked, but then you take that. You take that. Worth it. Absolutely worth it.

You were called up to the England squad and you would go on to collect 33 caps. What did that mean to you? The world. To play for England? It's really strange when I think back at it. You know, I'm playing for England with an England side that's not long come back from Italian 90 World Cup with Gaza and Lineker and Waddle and Barnes and all those great players that I watched in that tournament. And now I'm amongst them.

I remember, like, almost floating on air when I went into the first camp and they were all there and they were all doing normal things like swearing and eating sandwiches. LAUGHTER And it's only when we got to Wembley I could feel it all welling up because to go in and see your boots underneath the number nine of England, people are looking at you to see how you're going to react. And I remember Gazza saying, look at Wright, he's going to cry. LAUGHTER

And I swear, if Gazza doesn't say that, probably he'll burst into tears because he knew, he recognised that was going to happen. He was somebody as well who football meant the whole world to him. You've never been afraid to speak up for what you believe in and you're a very important voice in the sadly still very current debate about racism in football. Are things better or worse than they were in your playing days, do you think? Well, what we're seeing now with the emergence of social media...

You can see it happening. We've seen it recently. We've seen it with Raheem Sterling. But, like, I don't think that it's something that's ever gone away. And something so complex as well. It's very difficult to try, and even on this, on here, to try and explain what it means. And I think that people feel that because you've...

You've been a victim of it. You've got the answers. You don't know. You know, people talk about education. Then you look at a lot of people who are accused of racism. They're older people, the people who should know better still think that education is the key. And that's all we can do. But, you know, you're just hoping that more and more people will out it when it happens. Then you need the proper kind of discipline and the proper kind of punishment. So as people understand.

You know, it's not acceptable. What about changes in the boardroom? I mean, you've talked about the glass ceiling for black players. What opportunities would you like to see opening up for them? Well, the thing is, you look at someone like Les Ferdinand, who is in the boardroom. At which club is he? He's at QPR. But the fact is, is that Les himself, being one of the few, can't even name another CEO like Les is. He has to be successful.

Because if he doesn't make a success of that, you're not going to be able to get the next person through the door. Now, what I'm talking about with a glass ceiling in that respect is that there's people who probably will be qualified and be able to maybe do that job. But are they getting the opportunities? That's the main thing. It's about opportunity for people of diverse nature. You know what I mean? All you want is for people to have an opportunity to do something and get the opportunity to do a job that they want to do themselves.

It's time for your next track. What's it going to be? Well, this is just a great song that I found a few years back. And it's a very spiritual song. It's from Kirk Franklin. He's a pastor. I'm not particularly religious, but I'm God-fearing. And the message in this is all about upbeat and keep going. And when you listen to the beat of it as well, it's just a very uplifting song. Don't take it far.

Kirk Franklin and Looking For You. So, Ian Wright, you were born in 1963 to Nestor and Herbert, who'd emigrated here from Jamaica, and you lived in Brockley in South London. How would you describe yourself as a little boy? Um...

I don't know. I know one thing. I didn't feel, apart from my brother Morris, I just clung on to him. It wasn't a loving place to be. I didn't feel like people cared enough, apart from my brother Morris, because when we were younger, my stepfather, who was a very big, growly-voiced, gambling, weed-smoking guy,

angry man who frightened me. I was afraid of him. Your parents, your dad left when you were about 18 months. Yeah. And then all I've known from a young age was my stepfather. And I was never anywhere near somebody that he liked. And I've been very truthful about how he made me feel, but I always helped him.

So when I was younger, growing up, Morris was just an older brother to me, a couple of years older, who had to look out for me. He teased me. He teased you about your football, didn't he? He teased me from the day I've known him. Even now, he'll tease me on WhatsApp. And in the end, it drove me because I wanted to impress him so much that everything he told me I couldn't do because he was a naturally very good footballer. I practiced and practiced until I could do it. So when I was younger, growing up,

You know, I was very angry. Anything would happen. I'd get a smack or I'd get a clip or something would happen. So when I played football at that age, as soon as it got to a point where I couldn't deal with it, I'd lash out. And so that's how I felt when I was younger. Very angry and confused little guy.

Your dad left when you were very young. What contact did you have with him after that? It would be like, you might see him in two years, you might see him after five years. I remember when I was 11, 12, the whole estate used to go on this family trip, going to Littlehampton or Margate. And I didn't have, at that time, any trousers, decent trousers, because it was a thing where everybody got dressed up

And someone got a message to him saying, listen, Ian's going to a trip on Sunday and he's going to need some trousers. He hasn't got any trousers to wear. And so the message has come back. Yes, I'm going to come and give you the money to go and buy the trousers. It's going to happen. So you've got to understand my stomach because I don't see this guy. So Saturday comes and I'm literally beside myself. And they said that he was going to be coming at half nine in the morning, 10.

So I was waiting in our block of flats on the little plentiful thing where you could sit on the entrance. And I was there from half nine in the morning and he got there at quarter past five. Right. And I just remember that emotions. I can't even get to tell you the emotions I went through because if he didn't turn up.

I don't know what I would have done. And I remember I got myself to Peckham, bought the trousers, and I remember them because it's so vivid. It was those patchwork ones that have patches on my suit here. And like I say, the reason why I say that is because if he didn't turn up on that day, I would never, ever have had anything to do with him again. And it's something that I've made sure I don't have to do. I don't have to wait for people, for me to progress anymore.

Ian, we'll talk more in a minute, but right now, let's take a break for some music. This is your third disc. Tell me about this one. Well, this is a really tough one. Tina Turner, River Deep Mountain High. It's one of the first records I ever remember. And when you go on to see Tina Turner's film and what she went through, and then what I saw my mum go through, I remember this record would come and my mum would just cry.

Because I've seen what she'd been through with my stepdad. You know what I mean? She was like 4'11 and stuff, and he was 6'4". You know what I mean? And I used to see him do stuff to her. And this record, when I hear it, it just takes me to a place of real anxiety. It's a horrible tune for me. I remember my brother, when my stepfather used to be really, really manhandling my mum, my brother used to cover my ears constantly.

so you couldn't hear it. And when this song comes on, it just takes me back to that place. Why is it important to you to represent that and to talk about that experience? Because I have to own it and deal with it as hard as it is. My mum came through it with my help as well, so it's part of my life. It's part of my life. MUSIC PLAYS

Ike and Tina Turner with Riverdeep Mountain High. So, Ian Wright, life at home for you when you were little was obviously incredibly difficult, but football, by the sounds of it, was an escape. It was a release. It was the one thing that I was good at.

And I started playing at eight and people used to say, oh, he's really good. And then my brother would tease me about stuff. So then I'd practice my left foot, practice my right foot, practice my heading. I was so happy. I was so happy when I played. So you went to Turnham School when you were about eight and you said you had a very, very short attention span. What was going on with you? I just found it very hard to focus on what they wanted me to do. If you had to write an essay, if you had to do maths or anything, you know, the teacher would have to spend a lot more time because I didn't quite grasp it.

My handwriting was really poor. I wasn't confident with my reading. And then I remember being outside the classroom, like for the third occasion, and Mr Pigden, when he walked past, you know, I wouldn't even look at him. You know what I mean? I was so scared of him because he was really strict. And I remember on this third occasion, he looked at me, looked down at me because I was seven. I was at the school the other day because I had to do his plaque.

and he looked down at me. It felt like he was looking at me for an hour. I wouldn't look at him, but I could see his clothes. I remember his shoes were so shiny. He had turned-up trousers. His suit was always so immaculate. And then he looked at me, and then he went into the classroom, said a couple of things to the teacher, this and that, and then he came back outside and he said, come with me. And that changed my life.

I mean, many castaways will sit where you are now, Ian, and reference individual teachers who changed their lives. But Mr. Pigden was truly important to you to the extent that you dedicated your autobiography to him. How did he treat you? How did he engage with you and challenge you? I know he loved me. You know, I don't know why he chose me. I'm glad that he did. Once he came in and, you know, it was everything was so much, but he was the one who taught me about

Jimmy Greaves and making sure when you finish in, when you're going through with the goalkeeper, pass the ball into the goal, look for the space, score beautiful goals. But he gave me responsibility. I mean, I used to collect the registers from the teachers. Then they made me milk monitor. I really liked that. What was that like for the kid who couldn't sit still? Well, it was really good. I just felt...

Important. And then what he'd do, he'd put me back into the classroom and then my writing got better. He wouldn't let me play football if he'd heard that I'd been naughty in class.

He just gave me a sense of feeling like I had some use. You know, it was really weird because of the viral video that went around. Yes, this is in 2010. You were reunited with him. And that video clip online has been viewed over two million times. You had thought that he had passed away. You'd been told incorrectly. Yeah, I couldn't find him. I was doing a television show and there was a bit in it where I had to go back to the ground and

and, you know, just sit in the director's box. And so I was sitting there in a reflective moment, and then he just came off my right shoulder. And the funny thing about it, Loz, is that because he was, like, three or four steps higher than me, so the first thing I remember doing was I just ripped my hat off my head. Just went like that. And then I said to him, oh, my gosh, I thought you'd died, I thought you was dead, and he said, well, I'm very much alive, Ian, something like that.

And then he kind of... He said, how proud he is of me. And then I hugged him. And because he was three or four steps up, I felt like I was, like, seven again. We kept in touch from then on. And I remember him saying, you know, because he was one of the youngest pilots in World War II. He was one of the pilots chosen to do the flyover of Buckingham Palace, right? So...

I remember him saying that he was more proud of the fact that I played for England than him flying over. I love that, man. You can see it in your face. In that moment, on that clip. Gosh, man, I'm so sorry to people who are listening. I'm just turning into this bumbling, crying guy. But, you know, it's... They'll all be crying with you, Ian, don't worry. When he said that, he changed my life just by...

And recognising, I don't know what it was when I was standing outside that classroom that I needed more. And he gave it to me. And, you know, to be able to unveil his plaque at Turnham Junior School was the greatest thing I've ever done in my life, to be honest. Just the greatest man in the world.

Let's hear some music. This is your fourth in. Yes. This is Bob Marley. And, you know, there's loads of Bob Marley songs. And this one's deep because I remember when Alex Ailey's Roots came out, it was really quite hard in our school for a while. Now, everything changed because the slavery thing and not really knowing about slavery until you watch Roots. Then you start to find out what went on. And the next few days at school, it turned into like a black and white zone and...

and it was a real nightmare. And I remember this song was one that I listened to a lot in and around that time. It just talks about those things, you know. It's just a song that you listen to, and it was very powerful. It was a powerful song for me. And so I thought, yeah, of all the reggae records that I could put in, I thought that I'd put in this one because it's so significant, Redemption Song. Won't you help to sing These psalms of freedom

Well, Marley and the Wailers with Redemption Song. Ian Wright, you were just 14, I think, when you left home and stopped going to secondary school and you got a job as a plasterer. How did your mum react?

Um, it wasn't really fast. Maybe because I used to leave the house in my school uniform and then get changed. And then I'd go to work and I've done that for a few weeks. I didn't do any revision for the mocks. I was playing truant a lot. It was a time in my house where it just got just majorly on top.

And so I left and went and lived with my friend's mum. She was amazing. Called her Aunty June. My mate Johnny, his brother David. And it was kind of like a place where a load of boys like myself were in and around.

And once I got with them, then they started to take me to Lucian Boys Club, Jasper's, round the back of the Squire pub up in Bellingham, where it was really hardcore racial guys drinking. And, you know, it was a volatile time. A lot of people would get beaten up. But this was a time, what changed for me, my outlook on everything. You know, I've started to meet people that were gay people and been around all kind of people. It was an amazing time.

What about your footballing ambitions at this time? Where were you at with that? You'd been going for trials but without any success. Why do you think they didn't notice your talent?

I honestly don't know. I went for a trial with Orient, went for a trial with Charlton, went for trials with Millwall. It was really horrible because you'd be walking off the pitch and then you'd see the scouts going up to people saying, listen, I represent this one, that one, and you're never getting picked. And, you know, it was demoralising. What was the difference between those other kids and you, do you think? I don't know. I feel that I used to go to these trials on my own.

Some of the times, my dear friend Calvin Gentle, who passed away, he was a magnificent footballer, him and his brother Chris. Calvin would try and come with me, Morris would try and come with me, but when you're just there with your brother, like I'm like 13, 14 and he's like 16, it's...

I didn't have the right representation when they were coming up. They never came up anyway. Didn't have a family with you who were obviously going to help you with your training and support you. I didn't have that, no. I do want to ask you about your experience of prison in 1982. You were in prison for non-payment fines, among other things, driving without a licence. You were in Chelmsford Prison for 18 days. What was the impact of that experience on you? Well, that impact, that literally, that was it. Yeah.

For a start, you're in one of those Mariah vans where you're enclosed. I couldn't take it. I was like... And it was all happening really quickly to the point where I got put into a cell. Bam! When the door closed, I realised where I was. And I literally...

I cried from the first day to the last day. It made me realise I can't do this. So when I came out, it was a case of trying to find the kind of job that's going to pay me so as I can focus on getting that trade. That's all I'd done from then until it started to happen.

Ian, we've got to go to the music and I know this is a special track for you. So tell us about it, your fifth disc today. Oh my gosh. So when I started to go with my guys, when I ran away from home, they took me to the Soul Clubs and it was an eye opener. It just made me realise that soul music is where I need to be. But when I heard this one, you know, I'm not going to say too much in respects of the song because I want people to listen to the intro because I've never heard it before.

I'm in the middle of the dance floor. You could start to see people gearing up, and I'm thinking, what's coming, what's coming? And that was me. I was never going back to reggae like I was, like a slave to it before. This took me to the next level. MUSIC PLAYS

MSFB, Mysteries of the World. Oh, Ian Wright. I mean, just gorgeous. It's transcendent. I remember just standing there. You know when you listen to the intro, like you say, you can hear everything. Harps, violins, cymbals. And it just took me back to trying to dance as well as those guys were dancing.

It's just a beautiful record, gorgeous song. All right. So in 1985, things improved for you. Life was starting to change. You were playing Sunday League for a team called 10MB. And while you were there, you were still working as a labourer for Tunnel Refineries and you were scouted by Crystal Palace. You turned them down three times...

But when it came to making the final decision about whether or not you were going to sign, I understand that you talked it through with your son Bradley, who would have been about eight months old at the time. Just barely walking around holding on to stuff, but...

When the day came, I remember I was having a bath and Bradley, who, like I say, was crawling around in the bathroom, mainly trying to eat the bubbles out of the bath. That's what he's doing. I remember having to stop him. And I remember, Loz, speaking to him, going into why this is so important, just saying to him, this is it. This is another chance for me. What happens, though? You know what I mean? What happens if I don't make it again? You know, people are going to say you're not good enough again.

and saying, no, all I want is the best for you, best for your mum. I just want us to live somewhere nicer. I want to be a footballer so bad. I was just speaking like that to like an eight, nine-month-old baby. And it was amazing simply because I remember going for this trial and I felt so free. And once I got there, I just said, I'm just going to do what I do because I've been rejected trying to impress, trying to do what I think they want me to do. And I just went and done my stuff.

scored about three or four goals in the game. And so then I found out that I was going to make it. And what that talk done, which I didn't even realise at the time, it just made me go into a mode of, what are you worried about? Just go and do it.

And once you got to Palace, you just flew. After six years there, in 1991, you signed for Arsenal for what was at the time a record fee, £2.5 million. You were 28 at the time. Can you sum up how you felt signing for such a significant, important club? No, to be honest, simply because it was... Leaving Crystal Palace for a start was a shock initially.

Never asked to leave. I never, ever tried to orchestrate a move. I was happy at Palace.

So all of a sudden, I'm going to Arsenal. Like I mentioned, David Roecastle's there. They've been champions twice out the last three years and they wanted me. It was very hard to comprehend. It took a while for it to sink in that I was at Arsenal Football Club with my friend David Roecastle. The days before my first game, which was Leicester in the Cup, which I scored in as well, the nerves of all of a sudden being the record signing for Arsenal Football Club

It was overwhelming. And everybody talking about it. Everybody. And everybody's screwing, right, let's see what he's about. Because people say, yeah, he's not going to be good. Once he's amongst better players, we'll see what he's really about. And what I found is that once I got around better players, I actually just slotted in and got better because I went to another level with Arsenal. Did it change your view of yourself? I think that the success of it...

and the fact that I went there and now I'm accepted as one of the main strikers in the league. I think what happens with that and with the amount of praise you're getting because all of a sudden, as much as people are giving you negative criticism, they're still realising that, well, he's still scoring, he's still doing well. And then you start to get a kind of a...

a solidarity with yourself where you say, listen, I'm kind of invincible. You lot can't hurt me. And the only thing that happens with that is you kind of start feeling that you're breathing different air. You start to think that you're a bit special, maybe. A little bit too big for your boots? Absolutely. Absolutely. I went through that. And if I'm going to be totally honest, it's not my proudest years. You know, I think I messed up a lot of... I see messed up, is that a bit strong? I think I caused a lot of problems for a lot of my family.

You can only, as time goes by, try and rectify and make people realise that, yes, you're going through a phase where you made some terrible decisions, terrible decisions, and done some terrible things. I found that when I went on the football pitch, everything that I was doing off the football pitch didn't bother me. On the football pitch is sanctuary. I might come back to that, Ian, after this next track, and it's your sixth today. Why have you chosen it? Because this is the song that I had played...

when my wife was walking out to me for our wedding and I got Shola Amma, a dear friend, and she sung this song because I needed to find a song to sum up what Nancy means to me and how she's changed my life and how she makes me a better person. She's an unbelievable woman and I needed to find a song that could sum up how I felt about her. And this is it. And so when they played it, we were walking towards me

Everybody knows because you've seen what I've been like on here. Floods of tears. Then the highest mountain. Then the deepest sea. We'll love endlessly.

Randy Crawford with Endlessly. So, Ian Wright, you've found so much happiness with your second wife, Nancy, now, but you talked about your time at Arsenal and how your success there was underpinned by struggles that you were going through, some pretty bad behaviour, some things that you're not proud of. Your temper got the better of you on several occasions. How did you start to tackle that? How did you deal with it? I needed therapy, you know, because I got to a stage in my life where...

You're in a position where you're not hearing the word no too frequently because you're doing so well. And that's dangerous to the point where you're obnoxious. I knew I was not in a good place. I went to see this wonderful woman, Rosalind Craig, her name was. I have to mention her. I remember when I first started to go and speak to her, she recognised after the first few that you're not telling me the truth. Why have you come here?

But if you want to waste money, then go and do it somewhere else because I've got too many people that need help and you are wasting my time. And she said that and then I burst into tears because you know I can. And then I just poured out. And the therapy was the best thing that ever happened to me because what I realised is that a lot of it stemmed from my youth when I was a child. I remember one time she asked me about...

being hugged. And she said, can you remember the first hug you got from your mum? Can you remember any time where maybe your stepdad showed you? And I literally couldn't remember anything like that. And as time went by with Rosalyn, she tried to tell me to speak to her, speak to my mum. And I tried so many times. And she doesn't acknowledge that.

any of that stuff. So it's very difficult to try and put it to bed and understand what she may have been going through or what her journey's been up to that point. And did therapy enable you to get a different perspective on that? Absolutely, the therapy worked because what it made me realise is that, yeah, it wasn't great when I was growing up, but I turned it into something. And I'm just pleased that I got to a stage where I didn't want to be that guy where I looked in the mirror, I just didn't like myself, you know, didn't like it.

Ian, it's time for your next track. What have we got? How can I say? This is a very important song, especially in the black community.

What Stormzy done with this song? He was able to capture what it means to any black person that has got success and what that means to the people around and what you have to do and how you have to then carry yourself, the criticism that you have to deal with. People don't realise that when you do become successful as a black person, I'm sure it happens for white people as well, the amount of people that you do need to continue to try and help

And what Mike did with this was just magnificent to the point where I had to send him a message and say, Mike, that is awesome, bro. The way you've captured the feelings of anybody who's got to a level where you are now in the public eye and you can help, you know, he's just hit the nail on the head with this song. You know, The Crown, it's magnificent.

I have my reasons and life has its lessons. I try to be grateful and count all my blessings, but heavy is the head that wears the crown.

Stormzy, a.k.a. Michael Omari and The Crown. He just really caught what it means to be as successful as you are as a black person and what it means to the community. You connected with it as well, that experience. Heavy is the head that wears the crown. Absolutely, yeah.

Tell me then about life as a pundit on Match of the Day in BT Sport and ITV. Having been a player, you know what it feels like to be on the pitch there, but it's also your job to criticise players, you know, to represent the fans. How does that feel? It's very privileged, you know, to be able to have played for a living and now you're in a position where you can speak about it, to try and give insights. The research, I just cannot get enough of that because what you want to do is...

You want to try and explain the game to people when you see incidents that people who don't watch football can understand why that happened in that particular moment. So to be able to be in a position where you can do that, unless you have to criticise people some of the times, you don't have to be...

negative in that criticism. It's more a case of just as simply as you can letting people know why that happened. You know what I mean? I've had a double whammy in respects of being fortunate to be in that position. You talked earlier about becoming a dad when you were very young. You're now a father of eight kids from several relationships. What do you hope your kids have learned from you? Do as I say, not as I do. I was very young.

I don't regret any of my past. I know I'm a decent man now. I can just look myself in the mirror and know that. All of them are wonderful with their kids. And, you know, that's all I would like for my kids and the way they treat their kids is for them to know that they're doing the best they can. All we want to do is give them a good education and love.

We've spent a lot of time today looking back. What about looking forward? What are your hopes for the future? To be honest, I just now I feel like I'm in an unbelievable place. I've got an unbelievable woman who married me. And like I said, with everything I went through to get to marry someone like my wife, Nancy,

I know someone's looking out for me. You know, I don't feel like there's much I want now. I've done all the material stuff. You know, I'm in a place now where, you know, it's more about the substance of things now. I don't want to waste words. I don't want to waste time. What about one more tune then? Yes, please. What will it be? This one's for me and Nance because when I'm at my happiest, when we're out...

If this song comes on, me and Nancy are just dancing. I can do any move I want, she'll do any move she wants, and then we'll hug and we'll dance again. Even when I'm thinking about it now before it's come on, I can imagine her dancing to it, and it makes me smile. MUSIC PLAYS

Mary J. Blige with Just Fine. So, Ian Wright, it's time to cast you away to your desert island. As always, you can have the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare and a book of your own choosing. What would you like to take? I'd probably go with The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime. I really loved reading that book. It was such a good book.

You can also take a luxury item for sensory stimulation or to ease the pain of your isolation. What do you fancy? I'd like to be able to take a golf club. We can do that for you, no problem. A seven iron with some golf balls. You're in the bunker for all eternity. For eternity, I'm in the bunker. And if you had to save just one track of the eight songs that you've shared with us today, which would it be? Endlessly. For Nance...

because that's how much I love her. Ian Wright, thank you so much for sharing your Desert Island Discs with us. Pleasure, Liz, pleasure. MUSIC PLAYS

I'm Hannah Fry. And I'm Dara O'Brien. And in the all-new series of Curious Cases, things are getting curiouser and curiouser. We'll be looking the universe squarely in the eye and demanding an answer to your everyday mysteries. Including... Can you actually die of boredom? Why do some people taste music? And how many lemons would it take to power a spaceship? We will shine a light on the world's most captivating oddities. Brought to us by you, you delightful bunch of weirdos. And

I don't think you're allowed to call them that. But I love them, really. Curious Cases. On Radio 4. And available now on BBC Sounds.