RE-AIR: Holiday Special: Battle of the Bastards, Who's The Worst? Theseus vs. Jason

2024/12/24

Let's Talk About Myths, Baby! Greek & Roman Mythology Retold

Catherine

Liv

Liv: Theseus和Jason都是糟糕的希腊英雄，但Theseus更糟糕，因为他犯下了更严重的罪行，例如绑架和强奸，以及试图娶一个孩子。Jason虽然无能且不忠，但他没有犯下如此严重的罪行。 Liv详细描述了Theseus的许多行为，包括他在前往雅典的途中杀害强盗并强奸其女儿；他与Ariadne的关系，他利用了她的帮助然后抛弃了她；他绑架并强奸了亚马逊女战士Antiope；以及他与朋友计划娶宙斯的女儿们，包括绑架九岁或十二岁的海伦。 Liv还讨论了Jason的行为，包括他依赖船员完成任务，抛弃Hypsipyle和他们的孩子，以及利用Medea犯下谋杀罪行，最终抛弃了她和他们的孩子。 Liv承认可以为Theseus和Jason辩护，但坚持认为他们都是糟糕的人，并且Theseus更糟糕。 Catherine: 她在Twitter上发起了一个投票，询问人们认为Theseus和Jason谁更糟糕，结果是平局，这让她很惊讶。她还提到，通过进行投票，她发现了许多关于Theseus的新信息，例如他绑架海伦。 Julie Levy: Julie对Jason进行了猛烈抨击，指出他缺乏积极品质，依赖他人完成任务，抛弃Medea及其孩子，并利用她犯下谋杀罪行。她认为Jason是一个无能、不忠和自私的人。 Twitter users: Twitter用户对谁更糟糕的问题表达了不同的观点，有些人认为Theseus更糟糕，因为他的罪行更严重，而另一些人则认为Jason更糟糕，因为他无能且不忠。一些用户还提到了Theseus绑架海伦和抛弃Ariadne的行为，以及Jason抛弃Medea的行为。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why did the host create this episode comparing Theseus and Jason?

The host, Liv, created this episode to debate who is the worst Greek hero, Theseus or Jason, as a fun and less researched break from her Spartan research. The episode was inspired by a Twitter poll that received over 8,000 votes and resulted in a 50-50 split.

Why is Jason considered a poor hero according to the host?

Jason is considered a poor hero because he is often useless, relies on others to do everything for him, and manipulates Medea into committing heinous acts for his benefit. He also abandons women like Hypsipyle and Medea, and shows no remorse for his actions.

What is the most controversial action Theseus took that makes him worse than Jason?

Theseus's most controversial action is the abduction and attempted marriage of Helen, who was between nine and 12 years old at the time. This act, along with his other crimes like the abduction and rape of the Amazon Antiope, makes him worse than Jason.

How does the host's opinion of Theseus differ from her opinion of Jason?

The host, Liv, believes Theseus is worse than Jason because, while Jason is incompetent and manipulative, Theseus's actions, especially the abduction of Helen and the rape of Antiope, are objectively more heinous and unforgivable.

What was the outcome of the Twitter poll that inspired this episode?

The Twitter poll that inspired this episode received over 8,000 votes and resulted in a 50-50 split between Theseus and Jason, indicating that the question of who is the worst is highly contentious.

Shownotes Transcript

Because it only seemed right, here's a holiday re-airing of 2022's inaugural Battle of the Bastards. (Yes, Michaela and I will make this an annual thing!) It's that time of year when I can't fathom writing another heavily researched script so here's me breaking down Theseus vs. Jason, mostly from memory. Who is the worst? Will the results be 50/50?? Help keep LTAMB going by subscribing to Liv's Patreon for bonus content!)

CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing.

Sources: See past episodes on Theseus and Jason for further sources; Theoi.com; Early Greek Myths by Timothy Gantz.

Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions).

See omnystudio.com/listener) for privacy information.

RE-AIR: Holiday Special: Battle of the Bastards, Who's The Worst? Theseus vs. Jason 49:22 Share