Can You Talk About the Cats in Greece? Another Q&A
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Hi everyone, it's Savannah Guthrie and Hoda Kotb from the Today Show. Nobody does the holidays like today. From festive performances and great gift ideas to tips for the perfect holiday feast. Join us every morning on NBC and make today your home for the holidays. Hello, this is Let's Talk About Myths, baby. And I am your host, Liv, who...

Was going to come up with something quippy to say, but it's too much of a spoiler for the first question I'm going to answer today. We're not cutting out that sound because that's part of it too. So I'm just Liv, your host here with more answers to your questions because I am incredibly long-winded and you guys had so many questions. And it's December and I haven't been...

back into a realm where I can write a whole script. So I am thrilled that I can just answer more of your questions, not least because actually this question we're going to start with today is one of the ones I noticed like ages ago when it came in and I have been really excited to answer it. So...

Honestly, without further ado, more updates to come when I have put my brain back together post-move. For now, let's get right into more of your fascinating questions. Can you talk about the cats in Greece? Another Q&A.

Can I talk about the cats in Greece? Well, truly, when I started recording this, I had the squirmy worm that is my recently adopted Greek kitten in my lap. So it seemed like the absolutely perfect place to start today's Q&A episode. And I think there's another question about cats. I'm going to try to find it to make sure that I answer them both. Because cats in Greece...

They go along pretty hand in hand these days, but they didn't always. So we'll get into it. First up, this question is from Tamara, who says, can you talk about the cats in Greece? It seems like they're everywhere. As someone who is a my cats are only allowed to go outside in their catio and nowhere else person, I hope the roaming Greece cats are well taken care of. Love the show and all the work you put into it.

Thank you, and thank you for giving me an opportunity to talk about my new Greek kitten. His name is Anchovy, or Gavros in Greek, because, well, I mean, there's a whole story. So why don't I tell you all about the cats in Greece while also talking about my new little ridiculous kitten who just got neutered and so is walking around with a little cone on his head, but still has all of the energy that I have ever seen in a living animal in my life.

So cats in Greece, they are incredibly common. It is, I mean, I won't pretend like it's this big magical wonderland of cats everywhere. It obviously is a problem both for the cats and the people, but by and large,

From my experience, the people of Greece really make the most out of this problem. And I think the cats really benefit. I haven't been anywhere else in Eastern Europe for a long time, so I can't say whether this is widespread, but I can with a good deal of confidence talk about the cats in Greece specifically.

Like I said, they're everywhere. And like this person noted, Tamara noted in their question, yes, no, they are everywhere. The cats in Greece are kind of a staple, really. Like they're such a huge part of visiting Greece. You can see all of those TikTok videos and things that go around. Like, you know, what I expected from my Greek vacation versus what it was. And it's like beautiful ruins and then cats.

For me, when I go to Grace, it's definitely both. So it's a little bit of story time for now, from my experience personally with Grace.

Greek street cats. So, I mean, obviously I've been going there for a while. A couple of years ago, I found a group called Cats of Theseo, and they are a group who does really amazing charitable work with the cats in specifically the Theseo neighborhood in Athens. Now, if you're not catching that word, it is the modern Greek word for Theseus.

So it's a little bit funny slash appropriate that that is sort of the neighborhood where I found a group to really become an enormous fan of. And again, all the sounds in here, I'm not even going to try to re-record entirely because that is, I think, part of this question is everything about that was Anchovy trying to contribute to this episode while also...

Being a squirmy worm that is a five-month-old kitten. So cats of Thiseo do some really incredible work. If you are looking for more on the street cats of Greece or looking to help in any way, I recommend you check them out. Thiseo is spelled T-H-I-S-E.

S-I-O. There's multiple ways of spelling it in English because it's a Greek word, but that's generally it. Cats with Theseo does some incredible work. Irini is sort of the main person associated with it and she is awesome. And we met and she took me on a little tour of the cats in that neighborhood and she knows them all so well. They all have beautiful names and they all, you know, come running when she comes out with her food and the water and they take as

really as good care of the street cats of that neighborhood as possible. They trap when they find one that is injured and they do their best to help. They trap, neuter, and return as often as possible. Obviously, it is all about funding. They are a group that does it all based on essentially crowdfunding. So if you can and want to help, feel free. I give and I absolutely love the work that they do. So that's a really good example of what our

pretty common in Greece. I mean, certainly in the more populated areas where that can be feasible, but people really do

They really do care about the cats, whether, you know, that care is shown in the form of them doing that kind of charitable work where they're like actively, you know, trapping and neutering and keeping the problem from getting worse and ensuring that the cats that are there live as comfortable and happy a life as they can. Or just the people who live around there and put out food and water, because that is also incredibly common. People...

by and large, in my experience, really do want to care for the cats in their neighborhood. It's really nice. And, you know, it obviously is still not an ideal situation for, you know,

The cats, the people, the birds, everything else. But at the same time, in terms of something that is already a problem, the people really do make the most out of it and do the work that they can as much as possible. So the cats, by and large, for the most part, you're going to find that they're pretty well taken care of. The thing about cats, obviously, is that they are incredibly independent animals.

They're not like dogs to me. I like to phrase like dogs need people. Cats like tolerate people. Cats often enjoy people. Absolutely. But like dogs really like need people at this point. Cats are like,

not so domesticated that they can't, for the most part, handle it all themselves. And we respect them for that. But they do get help from the humans wherever possible. And it's generally pretty nice. Now, my little anchovy, you're going to get a little story time because he is perfect and precious. And I think I mentioned in the last Q&A, but you can check the Instagram if you want to see a picture because, again, he's perfect and precious. But

Story time is that I went to Naxos last June before the group trip with a good friend of mine, and she and I stayed at this place where there were these two cats who we bonded with immediately. Like, literally, we went to this place, we got our stuff settled, and then we went out for lunch. We brought...

back a little bit of leftovers and these two cats just showed up and like never left i mean obviously we also gave them leftovers and one of those cats uh was the first one we met we fed him anchovies uh leftovers and named him anchovy it just seemed like a cute name and this cat was so precious little tuxedo kind of a medium hair honestly beautiful cat just the loveliest i

Within five minutes of meeting him, he was like on my lap, just lying down like, hi, this is where I am now. Thank you. And then the other cat who was clearly the bonded pair, she's this little black one. And she was super pregnant at the time. We named her Sardine purely because it went with anchovy and it was just...

Flippin' adorable. And these cats were inseparable. They were with us all of the time. We ended up getting hit with this like absolutely wild heat wave where it was like 44 degrees in June. Absolutely abnormal, even for Grace. And there was this period where the cats just slept outside of our door because it was shady and cool. They slept there for like two days straight. We gave them food and water and they just didn't leave. It was so cute. And one of them was like, like I said, really pregnant. She was this tiny little black girl.

gal oh just bopping all around she loves to climb truly the sweetest little girl and then you know we also we also befriended uh the man who owned the land there and you know who was renting us the space at the time and so when the time came and little sardine had her babies well he sent us pictures and videos and she had this litter of these four little black kittens and one gray

And it didn't take long. We were obsessed. And so, yes, we did go back for this kitten.

I mean, lots of other life stuff happened in the in-between, but ultimately this friend and I ended up moving to Toronto together, getting an apartment together, and then bringing this Greek cat with us, along with my other gal, Squid, who I adopted in the summer, and she is also precious, but she is elusive, like squids tend to be. And by that I mean she's really anxious and we're getting her comfortable, but anchovy, oh, yeah.

He does not know the meaning of the word anxious. He is wild. And a great example of

kittens are often handled in Greece. Because the thing is, obviously, you know, a cat that has spent a large part of its life living on the streets of Greece and being vaguely, you know, cared for in that way that they tend to be, but also just like being out on their own and fending for themselves and getting, you know, cats create colonies for themselves or they, you know, become a part of existing colonies. Like cats really are these lovely little colony pack animals. And so, you know, it's really not...

by and large, it's not the greatest for a cat who has been living that life to then be adopted and become a house cat because that's just not, you know, that's a really big change for a cat that has grown up with it. But kittens obviously are an exception. And so in this case, you know, we went back for this kitten and we got to experience how it's often handled. Now, we were on an island,

It just happens to be that Naxos has quickly become my favorite island in loads of different ways, and that's where we got Little Anchovy from. So very specific island experience. Naxos is a really lovely island. It's touristy, but it's not wildly touristy. Still a lot of locals, and just generally it's the best. But don't tell anyone because we don't want it becoming not the best. But...

In any case, so when we were there with the kitten, we were, we obviously had to take him to the vet and we had to get some paperwork. And so my experience in how, you know, both people like the guy who owned the land, he was so happy for us to take one. He was like, just absolutely like, yep, no, come here, take one of the kittens, you know, I'll do what I need to do to help you do that. And so we, you know, we needed rabies vaccination. That's what you need to get vaccinated.

into Canada. And so we're looking into that. So we take him to this vet. The vet ends up chatting with the guy who owns the land because they are very, you know, they really want to help people adopt kittens and give them a better life. But they also want to ensure that tourists aren't out there like picking up a kitten that is absolutely not, you know, a

up for being adopted and brought back somewhere. So they're really conscious of lots of different things. So the vet had a whole chat with the owner of the land and ensured that like, yes, you know, he knew us. He trusted us to take this kitten. That was all fine. And then once that was handled, we brought this kitten in. They give him

They give him, you know, the shots that he needed, including the rabies vaccination and a microchip. They did it all. And they charged us like, I mean, compared to Canada, like almost nothing. It was so great. And they were just so keen to help us. They filled out this whole little, like we had to get him an EU passport. Like really, we just need the rabies vax. But in the EU, that comes in the form of this little passport. So he has this little blue EU passport that's like half Greek and half English. And it's flipping precious. And he's like, I don't know.

And they were just so keen. Like, they sat with us. We just, like, sat in this vet's office. He looked like a mountain man who was also, you know, just a – oh, he was so great. He barely spoke any English, but his – one of his – the tech that worked with him, she – her English was great. And we were going back and forth, chatting all about this. She absolutely loved his name, Aunt Jovi, in Greek, you know. But then, of course, then I say it's Gavros, and then I get a good laugh out of Greek people, which I absolutely love.

love. They give us all of this. This vet has this big old dog who is just hanging out this entire time. The vet looks like Indiana Jones, you know, if he let his hair go wild and kind of had an Einstein vibe. It was just the most

wonderful experience everyone was so lovely and they just wanted to help us take this kitten home to a new life in Canada and also I have to tell you that the reason I mentioned that there was a big old dog there at the vet because it was the vet's dog he looked like I don't even know like big and fluffy like so hot for grace but such a precious guy and his name was Odysseus or Odie

I nearly died. The people were like, well, you are reacting in a bizarre way to this dog's name. And I was like, no, it's so great. It's a sign. Anyway, it was just such a great experience. And that's just that's my experience on, you know, Greek people who want to help the animals. They love the animals. They want to give them a better life where possible. But they also ensure that that's an actual thing that's going to happen and not just like somebody picking up a cat off the street and like wanting to take it home because that's not necessarily going to result in a better life for the cat.

So all that is to say is a super long way of answering this question, but I am so passionate about the cats in Greece and my little anchovy is like this precious weird little guy. And he's such a perfect example of how it goes and in my experience with the cats there. So generally cats in Greece, I think...

are by and large taken care of by the people who live around them, by the neighbors, or by groups that are trying to do, like, bigger, good, like, cats of Thiseo and lots of other things. But in my experience, they're very much appreciated. Like, you go to a lot of restaurants and, like, the people working there are not shooing the cats away. Like...

The cats get fed at the restaurant. Like that's just the way it is. It makes me think of North America. Like people are always, you know, like, oh, that would be, you know, the cat would get shooed away as if like it was doing something wrong, just like existing in the space in which it naturally lives. And over there, it's like, oh no, this is just the way of life. Like if the people want to feed it, great. Otherwise like,

They're just they're just around and like nobody is out being an asshole to them for no reason. And it's really it's nice. I don't want to pretend like that is the case everywhere all the time, obviously. But in my experience, for the most part, it's pretty nice for the cats, you know, as far as it goes to to be a street cat. It's a it's it's not a too bad life for them, which is lovely and adorable.

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This is it.

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This next question is from Francesca, who says, Hi, I'd love to know your opinion on how colonialist and Christian ideas transformed female deities and their roles in society. You hear a lot of goddesses being under an umbrella of

fertility, birth, etc. When is this the true ancient Greek meaning and when is it a Western religious coverall? Hope this makes sense. This is in relation to Artemis, Persephone, and Hera. Thanks. Love the show. Thank you, Francesca. This does make sense and it's a good question. I would say like 50-50. Like, I mean, it

It's so interesting because fertility is like kind of a running joke with, you know, a certain level of classicists now, like those of us who are, you know, a little bit more critical of the patriarchal ideals because it's sort of a running thing where some certain types of like artifacts or characters, names, things like that, if like,

there's any kind of thing that somebody could latch onto and call it fertility. Like often they will, whether or not there really is any kind of contextual grounding for that, that comes mostly in artifacts, which I just find to be hilarious, but it's still pretty relevant when it comes to the goddesses. Like, it's tough. I mean, fertility, the thing about let's first, let's talk about the term fertility because it's,

It has this connotation now that is definitely coming from that Western Judeo-Christian ideals that we exist in. But at the same time, it still has a truth and an accuracy in the ancient world. Because think about, I think the best way of thinking about this is to think about fertility in

In a broader form, like fertility outside of the patriarchy, which is giving of life, right? This creation of life. There is fertility in the earth. The soil grows and there is fertility. Like it's just in that notion of fertility.

creating and giving life to nature. And so when you think of it that way, Artemis, Persephone, Hera, absolutely fertility deities. I would say less so Hera. I would instead pop in Demeter there. Hera is fertile.

You know, obviously she is a goddess of marriage and birth and things, but a little bit less in my understanding on that specifically fertility side. But Artemis, Persephone, Hera, like they are giving of life in that very distinct way that is inextricably tied from womanhood and just, you know, the ability to create life, whether or not that is in the form of a woman, but that ability to create life, you know,

And so, like, these goddesses and more, obviously, are absolutely tied to that notion of fertility. But then that kind of gets lost over time. And it really does get, like, sort of packed down into this notion of patriarchal fertility. And that's where you get this, like...

the level of ick right in with say Persephone um and Demeter as well and also I mean countless other goddesses that I can't quite think of but like that level of like that sort of pushing fertility into it just being this one level of like

human bodies creating babies like fertility really truly is so much more than that as a woman with a functioning uterus who will literally never have a baby even if it killed me like I

I, you know, we can be fertile without it being like this thing of like creating a baby for the patriarchy nonsense, right? Like it, Persephone is a fertility goddess because she represents the spring and, and the fertility of the earth and, and growing life within the earth. But in the general canon of Greek mythology, she never has a child. So she is this fertility goddess without having children. She's a great,

example of that Artemis, I would say a little less so because she's not so much a fertility goddess, but she is a goddess of birth. But in that case, that is coming from the very, very like meaningful story where she helps give birth to her own twin brother. Um, and so that is definitely based in the ancient Greek of it all as well. Um, but there are definitely connotations that have come later that link it more to that Judeo-Christian, uh,

fertility nature of like giving life for a man rather than just giving life, I guess. It's a really interesting question though, because it, you know, the, the, these goddesses are inextricably tied to those things, but over the millennia and centuries, like we have sort of,

We've made those things less important. And so they seem, these goddesses seem like, oh, they're just being relegated to like fertility birth goddesses, like typical woman things, because we have made that fertility less important. We have made it more.

that men can just utilize, something that men control, right? And so it has become less, but it's still in its core, you know, is this incredibly powerful, incredibly powerful thing. At its core, it is giving these

goddesses this ability to control life and death with Persephone so specifically but Demeter as well right the entire story of the Homeric Hymn to Demeter is this search for her daughter and how Demeter in her grief in motherhood and this loss of her daughter how she

she retracts the fertility of the earth. She takes that away because she does control it to that degree. And so it is this incredibly powerful thing. I mean, there's a reason why Gaia is the first, you know, kind of physically embodied thing. She is the earth, the giver of all life. And then she is covered over by a man, right? There are all of these stories about Gaia,

these goddesses having this life-giving vital like really just the most powerful thing on the planet they have this life-giving ability within them and then there are all of these examples of the ways in which the the gods sort of subjugate that and they press it down and down and you know i would say over the hundreds of years of the development of greek mythology and the general religious practices of ancient greece

You know, the women started out really, really powerful and they're just slowly kind of less and less, both literally and figuratively. But then, yeah, I mean, then Christianity comes along. And to me, the thing that Christianity fucked with in the most detrimental way is the notion of virginity.

And of course, that is also inextricably tied to fertility. But it's just that way that it made the Christianity made virginity this thing for men to control. This thing that like is about men. Yeah.

Whereas, you know, the word virgin in Greek is it's Parthenos. It's where we get the word Parthenon. Like it is this it just I mean, ultimately, it meant unmarried and childless. It did not mean this like

notion of like it didn't mean the Virgin Mary of it all right this idea that she could be pregnant without having ever had sex it was just this notion of unmarried and childless and so I mean I would think like

I mean, if Mary was a Greek, a character in Greek mythology, she would not be Parthenos because she had a baby. It has nothing to do with like penetration or some nasty concept of a hymen. Like it is just about the...

nature of having a child. I don't know the biblical story because I don't particularly care, but like I would imagine like Joseph's her husband or something, right? Like that would also make her not a Parthenos, like even if they hadn't fucked. Because in Greek it wasn't, I mean, I imagine there, I could be, I could be wrong and there could be instances where that is more important, but by and large, it's really more about the sort of status of the woman and

right? Like Athena is a Parthenos. She is a virgin, but it's not about how she has never been penetrated. It is about the fact that she is this powerful goddess who does not have a husband and does not have a child. The same applies to Artemis. It, there is no, like, there is no text source that's like,

Like, Athena is a virgin because no one ever penetrated her. Like, absolutely not. There is, that does not exist. That's not the notion of virginity. It goes right back to my, I mean, that's not to say that the ancient Greeks didn't care about penetration. Boy, did they. But it wasn't tied to that kind of

purity in the same way that it is under the Christian Bible and religion broadly and then the Christian West it isn't the same thing and so the very long-winded again because all of my answers are long-winded the answer is it really it did a

But there is very much still this underlying notion of like, these are fertility goddesses. Absolutely. And we shouldn't take that away from them. The problem is that the concept of fertility has been lessened. It's not that they, you know, aren't as powerful and therefore are relegated to fertility goddesses. It's that the concept of fertility has lost its importance under that Christian umbrella because the notion of fertility is really about the life-giving nature of all

of existence and that's why there are so many fertility goddesses because it is all about the fertility of everything and any kind of life giving creation is coming from this fertility goddess I hope that makes sense this is a little rambly I'm still getting back into like phrasing things like I would normally on the show it has been a wild couple of weeks but that was a great question thank you

All right, this next one comes from Selma, who said, Hi Liv, in your Atlantis series, which I really loved listening to, you talked a little about the eruption of Thera slash Santorini. I was wondering if you could tell us more about it and about the site of Akrotiri, or maybe recommend a book about the topic. Love your podcast. Thank you, Selma. Okay.

So I don't have a book to recommend on Thera or Akrotiri. I wish I did. So if anyone has any recommendations and you're listening on Spotify, put them in the comments and I can maybe share it somewhere or generally it will just live there because I would love to know about books about this as well. But

I imagine there isn't. I mean, there is a lot, but it's all probably really heavy archaeological stuff because we, the thing about Akrotiri, and I will get more into it, it's all just prehistoric, right? And I don't mean prehistoric like dinosaurs roaming the earth. I mean prehistoric in the way that like

does not survive from that time period. So there is no historical record. And so we, it's a lot of, it's all about the archaeological record and material evidence. And that often ends up with like, I would say like drier sources, unfortunately, because like there is no, there is no written source that talks about it at all. So that's what makes it very different from Pompeii.

Right, because, okay, I'm getting ahead of myself. So Thera, which is slash was, so Santorini slash Thera, it's still the modern name, only often pronounced Thera, like with an F, is still the name for Santorini. It confuses a lot of tourists. But broadly, the more ancient name is definitely Thera. And so...

Pre 17th century BCE. Right. So we're talking almost 4000 years ago. Before that, the island was one round ish island, presumably round ish based on what it is now. If you look up Santorini now, it's this cool kind of like

opposite... It's like a half-moon shape. And then there's this little island off to the side that's called Thanasia. And so...

essentially it's like this this big island was a volcano and in the 17th century it erupted and created the two little islands that are left and which are now Santorini now it's Thera and Therasia just means like little Thera which is adorable but essentially like that's what we have now but

The reason why we don't have quite as much information about it is just because it happened so long ago that it, you know, the record doesn't exist. Whereas the more famous Pompeii is happening, you know, 1600, 1700 years later. And so people are actively writing about it. And we have all of this historical record. So because of that, Akrotiri and the eruption of Thera is just a considerably less famous and less well-known. But...

To me. So much more interesting. Now, Pompeii is incredible. I went for the first time last year, so I won't pretend like it's not the most amazing thing because what makes Pompeii special is so much was preserved. Now, what makes Akrotiri special is that a lot is also preserved. It's just that the preservation of something from the Bronze Age versus something from, you know, the first century C.E.,

It's a lot different of what we have left. But Akrotiri is like this mini, considerably older version of Pompeii. It's this town that was preserved by the volcanic eruption. And so, you know, even today you can visit and it is...

what exists there now it's you know it's completely covered over and everything because it is so so fragile due to its age and the construction of the time and and all of that because we're talking about this incredibly early time period now on Thera at the time they were a

Minoan people, so they were connected with Crete to the south. They have a lot of very similar wall paintings and art like that compared to what we find on Crete from the Minoan people. But Akrotiri, because of the eruption, just has so much more preserved. So the wall paintings. The wall paintings are life-changing.

Just Google the wall paintings of Akrotiri. They are, for the most part, still located on Santorini in modern theater at the Archaeological Museum. And I went for the first time a couple years ago and truly, like, I don't... I can't even put into words those wall paintings. They are utterly incredible. The art that they showcase from almost 4,000 years ago is just...

It's really, really incredible. There are a couple preserved wall paintings that are in the National Archaeological Museum in Athens. So anyone who has visited that, you might remember those as well. Um,

Really, it's just it's unbelievable. So I don't I don't know quite enough about the history itself. But I'm just I know that I am utterly obsessed with what that eruption preserved. And so, yeah, I highly recommend anyone look into it further. Again, I don't have a book recommendation, but I do recommend you just like Google your little heart out about Google Santorini, Google Aqua. Googling Santorini is going to get you a ton of other stuff.

Google Akrotiri and the wall paintings there and just fill your heart just like full, full of joy.

This next question is from Josh, and he says, Oh, that's really nice. Okay. Okay.

Okay, my question is about music. I love music and I was wondering if you had given Epic the musical. I read all of that and I'm sorry. I feel like I've already answered this, but I read such a nice message. But just to, I'm going to pull it back because otherwise I'm going to ramble about everyone else's questions. But unfortunately, no, I have not listened to Epic the musical. I hear it's great. I'm so glad it exists. I'm not a musical gal when I don't have something to watch.

Because ADHD attention span. But I do know all about it. And it seems really awesome. And I'm so glad that everyone seems to really enjoy it. And thank you, Josh, for that question and all of the ridiculously nice things. I have trouble hearing that level of compliments. But also it means the entire world. So thank you. This is it.

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Because she took witchcraft to a whole other level. And to me, she is like, she's a witch who made herself the witch she was, whereas Cersei was a little bit more born into it. There's nothing wrong with that. Nepotism is fine. No, it's fine. Cersei is not a nepo baby. I'm going to say that clearly. Well, except when she is. But then so is Medea.

Anyway, it's fine. That's called being divine. But no, I really enjoy Medea, not least just because we have more of her story. Cersei's story really only exists in the Odyssey. And while it's incredibly fun and interesting, Medea's just is. There's so much more to dig your hands into. And I do love, I do love an angry woman.

Next question is from May. I don't have a great answer, so it's going to be quick, but I'm glad you asked it. They said, you've talked about guests or talked to guests about the difference between Euripidean and Sophoclean protagonists in Greek tragedy. Do you know enough about Aeschylus' dramatic style to differentiate between his protagonists and those of the other two surviving tragedians? If so, can you share what makes his style unique?

I would say no, but not least because I'm just so obsessed with Euripides and I'm like really bad at learning about the other ones. But I have been thinking more and more about returning to some of Aeschylus' work because I am very interested in digging into more about more of his work and also, yeah, picking apart him versus the other tragedians. So you can expect to see more in the future. But in the meantime, no, not really, because I'm too busy loving Euripides.

Okay, I have to skip a question from Doris. It's not because your question isn't great. It's only because it's long and I'm trying to get through a few but I'm going to try to go back to it sometime. Because thank you. And also I will just we're going to say just based on your PS at the end.

Just we're going to read the this is me rambling listeners. I'm going to read just the PS from Doris. And she says in a previous episode, you talked about the origin of names. So a bit about mine. My parents chose it because of the connection to the name Dorothea, which means gift from God. I'm aware that Doris is Greek in origin, but except that she's an oceanid and mother of the 15 Ariads, from which I assume the meaning of gift or bounty comes. I don't know anything else about it.

Um, that is what she, that, that is essentially all there is to know about Doris. So you've done incredible work. Um, but I mean, I think that that, while that is all there is to know about her, it really is still important to emphasize that. Yeah, you're exactly right. Like she may not have stories or anything, but in terms of this kind of nearly primordial deity of the sea, like she was meant to be, yeah, like incredibly procreative, like incredibly, like,

very much a fertility goddess as we were talking about earlier right this gift of life yeah mother of the 15 Ariads this titan goddess who formed so much of the sea even though we don't have much in the way of stories about her and that is all I know as well but I just wanted to emphasize that and I hope to get back to your questions it's to the listeners it's just about the life of a priestess

uh or of a god or goddess and i don't i don't know an answer to it and so i want to get back to it when i have more of an answer so thank you and then this next one is coming from imogen who says would you ever consider doing an episode about lord byron i think he's a really interesting guy and i also live in his hometown i know it's historical and not mythological and also not ancient at all but i'd love to hear your thoughts about him and his effect on greece

I would love to. I don't, I would love to speak to someone about Byron and Greece because when I'm over there, like it's so clear how valued he is. And it's really interesting to me. I know that he like fought for Greece in one of their, it might've been the war of independence for Greece because he loved it so much there, despite, you know, not being Greek himself, but he, he kind of became this like,

the sort of, you know, local hero, um, of the Greeks because of his dedication to the country, particularly when they were fighting for their independence from the Ottomans. Um,

So I've always been really interested in looking into more, you know, his name is, is all over the place in Athens. So specifically there's, you know, hotels named for him and streets and all of these, there's a big statue, I believe. And I did though, I will say that at the temple of Sunion,

which is in the southern tip of Attica. So it's like an hour and a half, two hours-ish from Athens. It is this temple of Poseidon right on the cliffside overlooking the sea. It's an incredible, incredible temple. So I recommend anyone visit. But one of the fun little things you learn when you visit there is that Byron actually scrawled his name on one of the columns there.

This was really common back then. It's very much like, oh my God, the horror now. But even up to a couple hundred years ago, it was pretty common to just still inscribe names on things like that. Even like, you know, national monuments in that way. But it's really interesting to sort of see that historical record of, you know, for all it's like, oh, you've kind of defaced the temple. I find it to be

really an interesting record of, you know, the 2,400 years, 2,500 years between when the temple was built and now and kind of looking at, you know, we don't want to forget that time period and kind of everything that happened in

in between and knowing that like his name, you know, and so many others are inscribed on a temple like that, I think is a really interesting way of looking at everything in between. Also at the time, the last time I was there, I was really proud of my camera zoom in

ability because I was able to actually find his name on a column, even though obviously you can't get close to them now. So yeah, there's, I mean, Byron and Grease are so intertwined. I definitely want to learn more myself. So whenever I do, I'll certainly share it all with you guys. This is one of the other questions I was looking for. So this one comes from Rachel in Olympia. I'm assuming Olympia, Washington, but maybe Grease. Let me know if I'm wrong.

She says, what do we know about the relationship between humans and cats in the Hellenic world? Maybe a particular deity or festival associated with them. People were clearly sentimental about their pets and obviously cared about their livestock. But I want to know where cats fit in, especially given the Hellenic fascination with ancient Egypt. And everyone knows ancient Egypt literally worshipped cats. Thanks in advance for anything you can share.

Okay, this is going to be only a vaguely disappointing answer because I think it's interesting enough that you shouldn't be disappointed. Cats were not, or rather I should say domesticated or whatever form that is, like what we now would consider to be a domesticated house cat style, like whether, you know, feral or wild or otherwise, but, you know, not a big cat, were not brought to Greece until the Hellenistic period.

Isn't that wild? So like there were that they did not really have much of a concept of cats as we know them up until that that period. So we are talking, you know, the Hellenistic period, of course, comes after the classical period, which is where my knowledge falls away because the classical period is where all the playwrights are writing and all of the everyone who I know and love is classical and prior period.

So I don't know much about when cats were brought over. This is another thing. Ooh, actually, this is me having a thought into the microphone and I'm not going to edit it. Mikhail and I were just talking about doing a big series on the Hellenistic period because we haven't talked about it that much. And now I am going to tell her we have to, we have to find...

as much as we can about when cats were introduced to Greece. So thank you. But no, so yeah, the Egyptians, you're quite right. I mean, the Egyptians did worship cats. They were very big. And so I imagine that is how cats did eventually get to Greece. But broadly, they did not have cats as we know them. They had...

big cats, you know, that's why there's lions in multiple myths and things like that, but they did not have, you know, our version of cats. I don't know what to call them because they're not technically house cats and they're also not feral because feral implies that they were once domesticated and then were no longer. So in any case, what are we

call what we think of as cats today were not brought over. And so I think that's sort of interesting in itself. So that's all to say there are no deities associated with cats in the broader Greek mythology because there were no cats.

Isn't that wild? And so I imagine they went over to Egypt and they were like, wow, these animals, the Egyptians love them. Like eventually we got to get them over to Greece. It just took a while. Yeah. So that's the slightly disappointing but equally fascinating answer. And I hope to have more for you soon on when they did come to Greece. Now, there still wouldn't have been, you know, any explicitly Greek deities associated with them because by the Hellenistic period, they're really done creating and creating

you know, imagining new deities, they likely were, you know, would have instead sort of, uh,

taken on the Egyptian worship or in some way Egyptian associations and kind of Hellenized it but they wouldn't have had their own but at the same time like I don't know of any kind of references to Bastet the Egyptian god of cats I don't know of any kind of references in Greece either so I would love to know more hopefully you can stay tuned for more on cats in Greece and just cats broadly we can talk about cats as much as possible

All right. This next question comes from Kai and he says, first up, love the show and you're fully responsible for me starting a new special interest. Yay, neurodiversity. That was in the message, but I agree. Yay, neurodiversity. Yay, special obsessive interests.

I'm going to Rome next August. Pray for me in the heat for four days. I'm so excited, but it's my first solo trip. Any advice for solo travel or Rome in general? Have a great day. Thank you, Kai. Okay. Rome. So I went to Rome last winter and I hadn't been since I was quite young. And by that, I mean, it turns out when you get old, quite young is like 20 years.

But so I hadn't, I hadn't been in ages and I went for a few days last year and August should be interesting. I was there in January. So that was a much more comfortable temperature. But I would, I mean, Rome is so interesting. I mean, oh, here, sorry guys, this is where my brain's at right now. I will say the one thing that I learned in Rome the hard way is that

Is that... So the Coliseum... Obviously you should see the Coliseum because you're not ridiculous. And why would you not go there? So go to the Coliseum. But buy in advance book tickets to go beneath. Because like... I won't say recently. But it had to have been like a decade ago. But...

The last time I had gone to Rome, you couldn't go down into the sort of the kind of catacombs underneath. Right. Like so the floor is obviously gone. And so when you're when you're in the Colosseum, you can just see the sort of hallways and walkways that were underneath the floor and which they used to transport, you know, gladiators and and bestiary and and the animals themselves that they fought and anything else that they were messing around with in the Colosseum.

And a while back, they, you know, preserved it in a way where they were allowing people to go down there and actually like walk through parts of it, which is so cool. And so I was so excited because I had, the last time I'd been there was like, I

I don't even know how long ago, but you weren't able to. And so Jenny Williamson of Ancient History Fangirl, she and I were over there and we were like so pumped and we go to the Coliseum and it just turns out you need a different ticket and those are like very limited. So you have to book them in advance and there's time periods and all of that. And that's so reasonable in hindsight because you're going like into this newly preserved area that is like

obviously much more fragile and they're being really careful with it so they're not just letting everyone who goes into the coliseum go down there so you need to buy a different ticket and they sell out so buy that in advance don't miss out like i did and and just so learn learn from me there um

And otherwise, you know, dedicate like a good old like day to the Coliseum and the Forum and everything around there because there's just so much to see. The Capitoline Museum is underrated and very cool and it's very close to the Coliseum and all of that. It's, yeah, very, very interesting museum to see. The Pantheon is fantastic.

also just utterly incredible. There's just so much, there's so many ruins to see in Rome. So it's kind of hard to fit it all in. So I would say maybe do your research ahead of time and what you do want to see because Rome specifically, like you could be there for a week and see things all day, every day and still not see it all. So prioritize, I would say, but definitely like that Colosseum tip.

Learn from me. And also enjoy and stay cool. It'll be really fun.

um as for a solo trip because people ask me about that a lot and i there are some questions that i've received that i did skip in here i apologize um questions about you know what to see in greece and things i always want to talk more about that so maybe i'll be able to fit it into to a future episode maybe i'll just do a whole episode about you know what to see or what i've seen over there um it's just so hard to give you know a

because it totally depends on what people want to see. So, you know, I won't dive into Greece yet, like holding myself back from being like, but here are all the things I love. But maybe that's for a future episode.

In the meantime, solo travel, I love it. I really do love it. You know, I am primarily traveling in Greece and I can say that I rarely, if ever, feel unsafe or concerned. Like, you know, I'm also a person who's lived in big cities a lot for many years. So I live with a certain level of, like, awareness and I think that's important. But...

And this is not to say that anyone in my questions has suggested anything like this, but I feel like specifically North Americans, like we have this bizarre idea that like when we leave North America, we're like inherently unsafe. And like somehow we need to like, you know, protect our wallets more, protect our money more, protect our passport, whatever. Like all of these things that like you should be doing generally, like anytime you travel and it doesn't matter like where you're going, you're not inherently less safe. Yeah.

in Europe than you are in North America, like particularly not south of the border. Like, you know, I feel a lot more safe in Greece than I do traveling in the States. And so I just say like, don't like leave your Western preconceptions behind like this idea that North America is like this weird little bubble. I mean, we are a weird little bubble, but like not in a good way. Like traveling to Europe, especially on your own, like I think

really opens up your mind to just like the rest of the world. And I think that's so important. It's yeah, it's really fun, especially I mean, Rome is really good. It's really accessible, you know, in terms of like getting to the airport and all around. And I love walking around a city like Rome or, you know, when I'm traveling in Greece, just walking and walking and kind of

see what you can get or where you can get to um that did just leave me lead me to another roman tip which is that there is a cat sanctuary amidst this one set of ruins um

I'm going to forget what it's actually called, but you can Google Cat Sanctuary Ruins and you're going to find it. But and I'm forgetting what it's called because Jen and Jenny, again, of Ancient History Fangirl, just kept referring it to that Julius Caesar's Cat Sanctuary.

Not what it's called, but it is generally in the area where he was killed. And so I understand why they call it that. But it does also mean that their phrasing then sticks in my head and I forget what things are actually called. But I do recommend checking that out because you get both some interesting Roman ruins and a cat sanctuary. And isn't that adorable?

Okay, we're on to the last question from Sky. And they said, do you think it's possible that the Zeus coup was written out of fear of the women, that the women would do the same to the men in charge? Because it kind of stands out next to the other myths and I can't explain why. This would support my theory that the women of the time would describe Hera very differently than the myths.

Firstly, and most importantly, I agree with you 1,010% that the women of the time would describe Hera very differently from the myths. I think that they would describe everything very differently from the surviving sources that we have. Oh, Hera so specifically. Yes, so specifically. I think Hera is one of the most fascinatingly, like,

I don't know how to describe it. I don't want to say damaged, but like just one of the characters who is most interesting to examine of like just how much of her character and her story is coming from the men.

Instead of like literally anywhere else because she just feels like this caricature of a jealous wife, right? She feels like a woman written by a man in this really distinct way. Like a lot of them do, but Hera, yeah. And the coup is so interesting too because –

It is not, not at all a well-preserved story. Like it basically only survives as this, just this little bit in the Iliad where it's like, it's really the story of Hera trying to take down Zeus of her, you know, essentially orchestrating a, what is ultimately a failed coup against Zeus. It really only survives as,

as a kind of explanatory note for why...

Thetis is on Zeus's good side because Thetis is the one who kind of rescues him, stops the coup. She brings in one of the Hecatonchires to save Zeus, essentially. And so it's this like, just this like an explanatory note of like why Zeus owes Thetis and like why he then has to help her, you know, in her quest to save Achilles in the Iliad. And so it's a really interesting story.

to present this notion that is ultimately at its core like incredibly subversive. This idea that the woman who is so famously like kind of Zeus's jealous, angry sidekick who just is sort of along for the ride in his like terror show of a

rule, you know, it gives her this, like, incredibly important status of, like, she tried, she stood up against him, she worked with the others, she collaborated, and they really, there was an attempted coup, and how interesting is that? And it

It seems to me that it's not unrelated that it doesn't survive elsewhere, that it isn't this well-told story. It makes me think of Medusa as well. These stories where women really are a threat to men and the patriarchal order,

Those stories tend to either not survive or be slowly changed and manipulated over time so as to lose their essence. Like, the Medusa who is this, like, you know, snarling head who can turn everyone to stone and is just this, like, terrifying beast. Like, that is a manipulation meant to ensure that a woman who could defend herself against a man, like, is unharmed.

unrealistic like as if they they don't want anyone imagining that that's possible and so the the story is changed or in the case of Hera like

It's not presented as this, you know, big feat. She is rarely ever, it's rarely ever referenced about her. It's not something that, you know, survives in any super strong or meaningful way. And because like, of course, because that is a, it is a threat to the ruling order to suggest that the wife of a man like Zeus is

could stand up to him and and tried to to fight back against his tyranny right um and i think i've been thinking about that more and more about you know when it comes to so many different stories and and just how much we might be able to kind of see remnants of those decisions whether they were you know conscious or otherwise or or just this like this like vague um

Like the men were afraid. And so they kind of rewrote everything to ensure that women did not have this example to go off of, right? I think it applies to so many different stories. And it's something where the more I think about it, the more I want to sort of dive into that in a kind of more meaningful way. So I'm glad you mentioned that because it's – I rarely even think about that moment with –

Hera because it is so minimal. It survives in such a minuscule kind of way. It really is not meant to be this important moment in the larger mythos. And why not?

What does it say that it wasn't? And the same, to me, goes for Medusa, right? While her story... She is a character, survived, is so famous, but particularly her as a head, right? As a weapon rather than a defense mechanism. And what does it say that the story of actually her being killed purely because she had the ability to defend herself against a man...

that that story barely survives in any kind of meaningful way. And what does that say about the storytellers and then also the people who had to make these conscious decisions to preserve these works over centuries and millennia even? Everything comes back to the patriarchy. Really, everything.

And I could talk about it forever, but I will not. I mean, well, ultimately I will, but not today. This podcast will go on forever of just me just raging about all the different reasons why the patriarchy needs to be taken down from the inside, torn apart piece by piece. And with it, we will take capitalism down.

With it, we will take Western supremacy and we'll grind them into a dust, blow it into the wind, and then, from what's left, we will build a world of equality where people actually get to elect their rulers and those rulers actually have to serve the people. Not the false, nonsensical form of democracy we have in the West now where we are led to believe...

That we elect our rulers and that they actually have to work for us. But in practice, that is laughable in 90% of cases. Now we're going to just crumble all of that to dust and build something fresh and new and socialist as shit. I've been having a time lately. This has been fun. Thank you all so much. Every once in a while I like to give you just a particularly...

unhinged episode of ranting and raving because gods, it's fun, particularly when the world is on fire and we are just watching as the West is allowed to, I mean, just, I don't even know how to get into what's happening right now in the Middle East and just the way that the West is just allowed to kill and destroy humans

cities and people with utter impunity because the propaganda has just worked far too well. So anyway, I'll be back with more soon. And together we'll take down the ruling Western order and the patriarchy with it. Let's Talk About Myths, baby, is written and produced by me, Liv Albert. Michaela Penguish is the Hermes to my Olympians.

my producer. She's utterly wonderful. Select music in this episode was by Luke chaos. Listen on Apple podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts, sign up for the newsletter, which I will send again soon and keep an eye out for ad free subscription options. I am coming up with a lot of incredibly fun stuff and,

It's all coming very soon. I've gotten merch made. I'm just waiting for it to arrive. We're going to be handling everything in-house. Oh, we're going to take down capitalism. I'll stop. I am Liv, and I love this shit. Thank you all so much for coming along with me on this ride for however long you have been. Wow, it's been a time. I absolutely love that I can say all of this into a microphone.

And it actually gets across and I just have connected with so many people who think similarly because we all have eyes and souls and, you know. Free Palestine. Hands off Lebanon. Let the Syrian people actually get what the Syrian people want and not what the West wants. And fuck settler colonialism. Land back. And down with Western supremacy.

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