cover of episode Extinction

Extinction

2024/11/5
logo of podcast Overthink

Overthink

People
D
David Peña-Guzman
E
Ellie Anderson
Topics
Ellie Anderson: 本期节目探讨了物种灭绝,特别是人类活动对物种灭绝的影响。从渡渡鸟的灭绝案例出发,Ellie Anderson 详细阐述了人类活动(直接捕杀和间接引入外来物种)如何导致渡渡鸟灭绝。她还强调了物种灭绝是一个漫长而复杂的过程,不应该简单地理解为物种突然消失。此外,她还讨论了第六次物种大灭绝的可能性,以及人类活动对地球环境和气候变化的影响。她还提到了托德·梅的著作《我们应该灭绝吗?》,该书探讨了人类灭绝的道德问题。Ellie Anderson 认为,评估人类存在是否合理,需要考虑对非人类动物的损害以及对未来人类和动物的影响。她还讨论了功利主义和道义论在面对人类灭绝问题时所持的不同立场。最后,她还探讨了去灭绝技术的伦理和法律问题,以及该技术可能带来的负面影响。 David Peña-Guzman: David Peña-Guzman 同样关注物种灭绝问题,并从哲学角度进行了深入探讨。他指出,物种灭绝是一个复杂且漫长的过程,不应仅仅关注物种的最后个体。他介绍了 Tom Van Dooren 的著作《Flightways》,该书强调了物种灭绝的复杂性。他还讨论了人类灭绝的可能性,以及导致人类灭绝的各种因素,包括病毒、核战争和气候变化等。此外,他还详细阐述了托德·梅的著作《我们应该灭绝吗?》,该书探讨了人类灭绝的道德问题。David Peña-Guzman 认为,人类既带来了快乐,也带来了巨大的苦难,特别是对其他动物的苦难。他从功利主义和道义论的角度分析了人类灭绝的道德问题,并对梅书中的一些观点提出了质疑。他还讨论了去灭绝技术的伦理和法律问题,以及该技术可能带来的负面影响,例如复活物种的法律地位不明确,以及复活物种可能无法适应其原有的生态环境等。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why did the dodo go extinct so quickly after human contact?

The dodo's extinction was accelerated by human arrival in 1598, which brought hunting and the introduction of non-native animals like macaques, goats, deer, cattle, and pigs. These animals, especially the black rats, preyed on dodo eggs and chicks, leading to their rapid demise within a hundred years.

Why did the concept of extinction emerge only around the time of the French Revolution?

The concept of extinction emerged around the French Revolution because the decreasing influence of Christianity allowed scientists to consider the possibility that species could come and go. Prior to this, the idea was unthinkable, especially due to the belief in the great chain of being and the immortality of species.

What is the difference between background extinction and mass extinction?

Background extinction refers to the normal, slow rate of species disappearing, which is less frequent than speciation. Mass extinction, on the other hand, involves a sudden and rapid loss of a significant proportion of species over a geologically short period, leading to major transformations in Earth's biodiversity.

Why is the Anthropocene important in discussions about extinction?

The Anthropocene is significant because it marks the current geological epoch where human activities have become a dominant force, causing significant changes to the environment and leading to a mass die-off of species. This epoch is characterized by land transformation, river damming, and atmospheric alteration through fossil fuel combustion and deforestation.

What ethical frameworks does Todd May use to consider human extinction?

Todd May uses utilitarianism and deontology to consider human extinction. Utilitarianism weighs the overall happiness and suffering caused by humans, while deontology emphasizes the intrinsic value of human life and the duty to prevent harm to individuals, regardless of the overall consequences.

Why does Ellie find the comparison between saving farm animals and saving famous artworks problematic?

Ellie finds the comparison problematic because it suggests that the value of human cultural artifacts can outweigh the intrinsic value of animal life. She argues that this comparison is morally inconsistent, especially when it comes to the suffering of animals versus the preservation of inanimate objects.

What are the main ethical considerations in Todd May's book 'Should We Go Extinct?'

May's book considers whether human existence brings more happiness than suffering to the world, the importance of human cultural experiences, and the significance of human life for current individuals. He also explores the ethical implications of human actions on future generations and non-human animals.

What are some of the criticisms of de-extinction technology?

Critics argue that de-extinction technology is more about scientific curiosity and the 'coolness factor' than genuine conservation. Legal ambiguities around the status of de-extincted species and ethical concerns about the treatment of pregnant females and the potential for these organisms to become invasive species are also significant.

Why might de-extinction technology make us more cavalier about our treatment of species?

De-extinction technology might make us more cavalier because it suggests that extinction is not permanent, and we can 'undo' our mistakes. This could lead to a relaxed attitude toward conservation efforts and the protection of species, thinking we can always bring them back.

What is the ethical concern about the de-extinct Pyrenean ibex?

The ethical concern is that the de-extinct Pyrenean ibex lived only for 10 minutes before dying of respiratory failure, raising questions about the quality of life and the potential for suffering in these de-extinct organisms. Additionally, their legal status and protections are unclear, as they do not fit into existing categories of endangered species.

Chapters
The episode begins by discussing the extinction of the dodo bird, highlighting the complexities of extinction as a process rather than a single event. It emphasizes the 'dull edge of extinction,' encompassing the slow unraveling of a species' way of life.
  • The dodo's extinction was the first conceded to be caused by humans.
  • Extinction is a complex, drawn-out process, not a sudden event.
  • The 'dull edge of extinction' describes the gradual decline of a species.
  • The concept of extinction as a protracted process challenges the 'peekaboo theory' of extinction.

Shownotes Transcript

Dinosaurs, mammoths, ibexes, frogs: a great deal of animals have gone the way of the dodo. Are we next? And would the world be better off without us? In Episode 116 of Overthink, Ellie and David talk about extinction, from Christian eschatology, to the perils of Anthropocene, to cutting-edge de-extinction technology. They turn to animal ethics and scientific dilemmas in search of the ethical approaches that might equip us to think about the extinction of animals, and perhaps even our own. Plus, in the bonus, they talk love, cyborgs, tech bros, and the ethics of the future.Check out the episode's extended cut here!)Works DiscussedThom Van Dooren, Flight Ways: Life and Loss at the Edge of ExtinctionElizabeth Kolbert, The Sixth Extinction: An Unnatural HistoryTodd May, *Should We Go Extinct?*Jacob Sherkow and Henry Greely, “What if Extinction is not Forever?”Émile Torres, Human Extinction: A History of the Science and Ethics of AnnihilationChildren of Men (2006) dir. Alfonso CuarónEpisode 46. Anti-Natalism **Modem Futura)**Modem Futura is your guide to the bold frontiers of tomorrow, where technology,... Listen on: Apple Podcasts)   Spotify)

Support the show)

Patreon | patreon.com/overthinkpodcast) Website | overthinkpodcast.com)Instagram & Twitter | @overthink_pod)Email | [email protected])YouTube | Overthink podcast)