2022 Arnold Palmer Invitational, Euphoria with Tom Jacobs & Carlos Estrada
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All right, Inside Golf Podcast, Arnold Palmer Invitational with Tom Jacobs. Tom is one of my favorite guys to talk golf with. He just looks at things a little bit differently, which I really appreciate. So I hope you check out his work on all other platforms. The reason why this episode is so long is because in the second half, I

I bring in Carlos Estrada, who is the creative director for Apple, to discuss the season finale of Euphoria. This was an extremely popular request by the giant overlapping Venn diagram of people who listen to my golf picks and also like a show about teenagers doing drugs. So definitely stick around for that discussion at the end.

If you watch the show, I think you'll really enjoy it. Carlos is one of the smartest people I know, one of the most creative people I know, and I think he has a really interesting perspective. So I was really honored to get to talk to him about this. If you are the 98% of my listeners that don't watch the show, it's at the end for a reason. So you can turn it off in the second half once we get there. All right, let's bring in Tom.

All right. Tom Jacobs is here. I want to get all of this. So he hosts the loss for words podcast, DP world tour picks and bets on Mayo media network. Also my colleague at the great odds checker. And this is your fourth podcast of the day. You told me.

Yeah, so I was on the Mayor Media Network with Skylar Hoke doing a DP World Tour show, I did my own show, Lost the Words, then went on the Golf Alternative with Martin Matthews and here I am with you now. So it's been a busy night but that's what we're here for, right?

Yeah. Well, I very much appreciate you taking the time after, after that long stretch. I don't know if I've, I do a lot now, but I don't know if I've ever done four in a day. Um, so this is actually my record. So when you told me, I was like, this is cool. I'm going to do four in a day. And, uh,

yeah, it's, uh, it's cool. Well, hopefully you save some of the good takes for this one. Yeah, definitely. Uh, let's dive right in, man. It's the Arnold Palmer invitational, uh, Bay Hill club and lodge. It's a par 72 measure 7,454 yards on the scorecard.

Bermuda greens, three inch Bermuda rough and a fair amount of water as well. It's definitely a real test. I've done a pretty extensive breakdown on the Sunday show already. So I'll just kick it to you, Tom, anything you're looking for specifically at Bay Hill. No, it's, you obviously, your preview is great on it. I listened to that earlier and I kind of, you know, you sort of mentioned and I sort of thought about it. It's not really, it's,

direct correlations for Bay Hill, right? It's not a course that generally throws up a lot of crossover, but a couple of events that I wanted to mention. So Dick Wilson, obviously, was the original designer of this course, and he designed a dubstrap course at Cog Hill, which hosted the BMW Championship in 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011.

and the Western Open from 1991-2006. So Tiger Woods obviously just comes up everywhere. He's eight-time winner here and five times at Cog Hills. That's not really necessary, but Justin Rose won at Cog Hill and was second or third here.

Ben Crenshaw is one of both golf courses. And then he also designed Blue Monster at Doral. So maybe worth some crossover there as well. And then I sort of got to the Valero Texas Open, which was not something I thought I'd be talking about this week, where Martin Laird has won both events. Matt Every is a two-time winner here and finished second at the Valero. Rory's been second at the Valero. Bart Bryant won the Valero and finished second here. Charlie Hoffman is the Valero Texas Open and finished second here. Kevin...

Kevin Chappell was a winner at the Valero and finished second here. Corey Connors won the Valero third here. So there was a lot of just crossover between that and, you know, other people sort of made their own judgments on whether course correlations are relevant. But I thought it was interesting to mention those.

I'll throw my hat into the ring with one of those. What do you think about Olympia Fields? I was looking at Olympia Fields because I was trying to think of, okay, what are the only courses? There's not many that have rock hard greens are exposed to the winds and feature really thick rough. And a lot of courses check like two or three out of those boxes. Yeah.

But I felt like, and I know Olympia Fields is backgrass, but I really liked that one. You remember the one that Rom went over DJ in a playoff? They went to it two years ago, I believe, for the BMW Championship, a FedExCup playoff event.

Yeah. So I heard you mention that one and actually led me to one of my picks because when you look at Olympia Fields, Jason Kovac and Fitzpatrick, I'd sit there. Exactly. Yeah. Rory was 12th there. And the guy that I'm going to go to was, uh, was top 10 there in where you probably wouldn't expect him to be. So, um, yeah, I love it. I think anytime you've got a tough golf course, the rewards mid to long irons, I think even like quail hollow and places that I think they're all kind of relevant. Right. Um,

I think it's just where you draw the line. I mean, a lot of the crossovers I've just mentioned are,

great players, right? I mean, I don't need to sort of make a correlation between Tiger Woods events, but even Justin Rose and people like that. But when you start seeing Matt Every sort of appear at both events and Martin Laird and Bart Bryant and Charlie Hoffman, you start to pay a bit more attention. But certainly your Olympia fields helped me solidify one of the picks I liked. So I like it. All right. Well, speaking of good players, let's get into, let's get into the top of the board. So I'm looking at these guys under,

30 to one on DraftKings. John Rahm is plus 750. Roy McIlroy is 10 to one. Scotty Scheffler is 16 to one. Hovland's 18. Fitzpatrick's 20. Sungjae M, 22. Hatton, 28. Leishman, 28. Hideki, 28. Zalatoris, 28. And then there's this drop off before we get to the Paul Casey group. Are you betting anyone at the top here, Tom?

I'm not. I was close to Hovland before DeChambeau pulled out. So I basically took the line that between Rory, DeChambeau and Hovland, I was going to try and make a pick. Then DeChambeau pulled out, which sort of lowered Hovland's price. I think Hovland's probably going to be overlooked a little bit just based on the sketchy course form. But he was actually, I think, inside the top three or seven, you know, between the first 36 holds. So that was pretty impressive. And Rory's just...

been electric here, right? But no, in short, I won't be going to this part of the board. Me neither. I mean, well, technically, I guess the guy that I'm going to is he's just under 30, but can we talk about Jon Rahm for a second? Because I don't think that you're going to hear his name one time on a podcast this week. And correct me if I'm wrong, because you've done a couple more than me already. But

I just want to say with Jon Rahm, I've been saying this for like a year. I know it's sacrilegious to some, but maybe, just maybe, he's not as good as people think at winning golf tournaments. Maybe he's not in this different tier than Cantlay and Morikawa. Maybe he doesn't operate in some godly space above those guys. Maybe they're equal. Now, what's interesting to me, Tom, is

is it feels like the pendulum has started to finally swing that way. And the larger golf media are starting to say, like, are we sure he's better than Cantlay? Like, should he be the master's favorite? And he's starting to get,

out of sight, out of mind. I had discussions with people just a few weeks ago, Tom, that were telling me how terrified they were of Jon Rahm and how maybe we should start thinking about betting markets without him in it. I can tell you one thing, Tom, those discussions are not happening anymore. And I just want to say, I actually think that is a very good thing for Jon Rahm. I think he's going to play well.

really well this week. Now, I'm not going to bet that number either, but he is a lock for me in DraftKings. I think he's a great one-and-done play. And I said in January, like, he's going to win before the Masters. I still believe that. And I think this could be the week. Now, what I would be okay with, Tom, is...

I like him so much this week, so I don't think that's going to happen. But if Ron plays bad this week, I think he'll be like 12-1 at the players, and I'll be there for that. But I just wanted to talk about him because the pendulum has started to swing in the other direction, and now he just doesn't even get mentioned, and he's probably going to go under-owned again. And I think that's a dangerous spot for him this week. Yeah, so I mean, I think the thing is,

you could probably give him an extra win, right? As a, as a thing, you know, he didn't have to withdraw from that event. I'm pretty sure he had to close that out. You can't guarantee that you would have done. Really? Cause Berger just, Berger just blew a five to Sep Stracca. That's, that's Daniel Berger though, isn't it? And it's a Honda, right? Yeah, but he, yeah, but he blew it to Sep Stracca and, and, and Rom had can't lay more Colin Scheffler on his tail. I'm with you. I'm just saying it's not inconceivable. I,

I'm not... No, no, no, of course not. No, I mean, it was one of those ones where, like, I think in terms of giving it to Cantlay, do you know what I mean? I think that, like, he would have had a lot harder... If he had to push to chase John Rahm, is his event completely different? Is the way he plays that tournament really different? So you talk about his... I think it's more of a against Patrick Cantlay

rather than in favour of John Rahm in the sense that two of Cantlay's wins are that and the Tour Championship where he had a lead. John Rahm won the 72-hole version of that as well. So I think when you...

Because everyone said there was a stat where no world number one had won over the last X amount of years a PGA Tour event since Dustin and the Masters, right? And Dustin won Saudi Arabia, so that was one of them. And if you're going by just world golf rankings, then surely when they count the Tour Championship as a win, we should if we're doing it based on him being world number one. Tom, that narrative works completely for me too because that's another win for Xander.

Exactly that. I think all of that is to say that I understand where people come from and they get excited about him, but I don't think anyone should be consistently single digits like he is that's not named Tiger Woods. Like, I don't really understand. If you can't make him co-favourite of Roy McIlroy this week, I don't know when it's going to happen. Is it just because he keeps...

He keeps finishing 15th, 20th, 25th, right? But he's never been, even at Torrey where he was third, it was kind of out of the blue that he even contended in the end. And he never really felt like he was going to win that event, I didn't think. So I think he's being overvalued a little bit. With that said, that means that people are going to give up on him eventually because he's burning them and BFS is probably the play.

I think so too. I think he's dangerous this week in draft. I'm playing a ton of him. And because of the course history, right? Because he hasn't played it, everyone's going to go off of him, I guess, because of that reason. And I don't necessarily think you have to have played here to play well. You just maybe need to have played well to win. So maybe second. Well, exactly. And so everyone's tweeting trends about how winners have had a previous T7 here or whatever. And

The highest-priced golfer in Sung Jae last week just missed the cut. So I think some people are going to say, why would I pay up for this dude? But you want to talk about rock-hard greens, windy and thick rough. Well, who won at both Olympia Fields in the year that Memorial played super, super tough? It's John Raw. So I'm just saying, I think he is going to be...

Under-owned this week. I don't think you're going to hear his name a lot in it because everyone just goes right past him. And I'm just, I'm staking my claim that I think he is very dangerous and I'm not playing Rory. I'm not playing Hovland. I'm not playing Scheffler. I'm not playing a deckie. I'm playing John Rom. So that's kind of where I stand with him in DraftKings as far as betting goes, Tom. So you're starting in, in the thirties that, yeah.

Um, so before we get like into those thirties, I want to talk a little bit about the two guys very briefly that I have bet, which are Fitzpatrick and Zalatoris, who I don't think I will be alone on that one, Tom. I want to, I want to hear your take on both of those players. So, because I'm a little surprised that you don't have interest in either.

Patrick is just a pride thing for me right now. I think that, and I'm going to group him in with someone later that I'll have a much stronger take on as to why I won't be better than this week. But yeah,

Fitzpatrick's just one of those that he's inevitably going to win a PGA Tour event. I think he's talked about as if he's never won before because some commentators can't separate winning on the DP World Tour as winning on the PGA Tour, right? Sure. So I don't necessarily see him as this kind of maiden that's really struggling to get his first win. It's just...

He never used to play a PGA Tour heavy schedule. So he generally enters the best fields at the toughest events. So in terms of his course form here, I mean, it's brilliant, right? It writes itself second, ninth and tenth. Why don't I think he's going to win? It's probably not that. It's probably just more that if I'm going to avoid...

betting, Hovland, Sung Jae-in, Rory, I can't bring myself to back Fitzpatrick at the price. Fair enough. I mean, when you were on Fitzpatrick, I'm guessing it was the kind of 30-to-1 number before. Now it's dropped to 20. Would you be as interested? No, definitely not at 20. I got 29 and still didn't feel great about that. To be honest with you, when Bryson withdrew,

I panicked. And I bet Fitzpatrick at 29 and Zalatoris at 29. And honestly, with the price and withdraw, the numbers didn't crash in the way that I expected them to crash. But no, I absolutely wouldn't do Fitzpatrick at 20. What about Zalatoris for you then? So to me, and this is the perfect example not to bet Fitzpatrick, is I think Zalatoris is a much clearer path to victory here. And I know that sounds strange because Fitzpatrick's got...

the course form and, and, and you can do it in different ways here, but the most obvious way is to be brilliant with long irons, 200 yards and, you know, and not have to rely on great scrambling, great putting. Um,

And Fitzpatrick is better at driving than he gets credit for. He can get it out there further than people think. He's picked up distance. You're right about that. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember speaking to Billy Foster on the podcast during the pandemic, and he said that he's got this extra drive that he can hit, that he can go if he really wants to give it some. But I think the way he succeeds here is to not do that, is to not get out of his keys, and it's just to kind of play the safe approach and scramble which way

doesn't appeal to me as much as... It almost has to be perfect for him. If there's any one bad round, I think he could be completely derailed, whereas I think Xalatoris can kind of be steady all the way along. So of the two, I think Xalatoris would be a lot clearer for me. Is there anyone else you want to mention in this range before we dive into more of the middle section? So where would you, for DraftKings, where would you be starting your lineups then? So for me...

I'll probably join you in Jon Rahm, but I think Sanjay is in a good bounce-back spot, right? I think that we were kind of hoping, I don't know if you were as well, but maybe hoping for a slightly bigger number than we got, just in the hope that there was a bit of an overreaction to the miscut of the Honda. But he's been back-to-back third-place finishes in his two starts here, and when he was 21st, I think he was 7th after 36 holes as well, just had a bad final day. So to me, that kind of 21st-place finish, I could...

you can't just give people top tens, right? But he was right in the mix to be top 10. He was 18th after 54 holes. So, yeah, I think Sung Jae was probably the biggest temptation here at the top of the board. And at $1,900, I don't think he's a bad place to start. Real quick, in or out on Hatton? Out. Okay. What about you? In. I like Hatton this week. I mean, I've burned it. I'm not going to bet him. And I've burned a ton of money on him over the years. But...

I thought the fact that we haven't seen him in the US since the fall swing would maybe help with the number a little bit. Not really the case, but I think he's been good in Europe, right? I don't really have a ton of the stats from Europe outside of the general ones like greens and regulation and putts per green and stuff like that, but Hatton's been good, right?

Yeah, he's been fine. I think for me it's kind of, you know, what is it, sixth and fourth to start the year and neither time he kind of looked his brilliant best and that's kind of what held me back. Like just from an eye test point of view, statistically he's been fine, you know, from the fact that he won. But I think that

when he won here, it was such a different event, right? Like it was such a difficult day. And that's what he's great at, is performing really well when it's really, really hard. And I know he had that fourth base finish on debut, which obviously backs up that he's a good play. But I think the kind of 69th, 29th, 21st, it wouldn't surprise me if he kind of landed in between that, based on what you just said there, that this is first start in America for the season. All right, Leishman in or out?

In. Okay. All right. Interesting. It's a pretty bad number in the betting market, so, huh? Correct. Yeah. I hate the betting market, but in terms of DraftKings, I think he's probably at a price where people just want to go to Fitzpatrick, maybe go down to Scott, and I think you could probably get a little bit of leverage with him. Okay. Hideki, in or out? Out. Out.

And that was really hard for me because I was not so long ago basically saying any time Hideki was 20-1 plus, you just have to bet him the way he's playing. But in terms of what he's done at Bay Hill, right, he's made every cut, which is in itself probably an achievement. He has a sixth place finish, but the sixth place finish came largely courtesy of his 67 final round. And just when you look at kind of the other finishes, 21st, 45th, 49th, 33rd, 56th, 18th, they've never been

And sometimes I see a bit of hidden form and hidden form gets me into trouble because I bet Hudson Swofford last week. And hidden form also helps me when I bet Billy Horshaw at Phoenix, right? It just, sometimes you can see round by round, but to me, he's never, he's always kind of tread water here or tread water here at Bay Hill. He's never quite contended as I think he could do. So I would be out on the deck here.

Yeah, me too. I like Hideki a lot. He tends to go under-owned, but I think with how heavy I am on ROM, I'm probably going to start most of my lineups with Hideki.

either Rom Fitzpatrick, Rom Zalatoris, or Rom Sungjae. Or the lineups that I don't have Rom in, it's going to be some combination of Fitzpatrick, Zalatoris, Sungjae, and a little Hatton. But you just, you can't play them all up there. All right, let's get to some of these guys in the 30 to 60 range, Tom. So I'm not going to list all these guys, but where are you starting here in that like kind of 30 to 60 range? Yeah.

So four of my five selections are in this range this week. So I've absolutely peppered this one. Paul Casey is my favorite bet of the week. Yeah, me too. I absolutely love Paul Casey's chances. And the trouble is, is I've got a couple of times, basically since the PGA at Harding Park, I've felt like this about Paul Casey. And it hasn't always paid off, but there's always this kind of narrative. I know you've spoken about it at times on the podcast that,

like you have to bet a European and an international player because of the record here. But in nine of the last 12 renewals of the event, the European is either one or finished second in the event. And that just kind of lends itself to the fact that not only is it a good cause for them, they just feel comfortable, right? It's going from...

England to Orlando is bliss and everyone loves doing it. And it's not going out to Texas and where things are a little bit different and things like that. So I think that plays a big part into it. He's played it five times over the past decade, made four cuts, finished top 10 twice. Yeah, I just think he's brilliant. And you go way back to even 2017, he was first after round one and second after the halfway stage. So Tito Green, he's been great. Top 10 in both his last two starts. And yeah,

so far in 2022 16th 12th 24th and 15th which doesn't sound above expectation for Paul Casey right that's what we kind of expect from some of his solid play but even the 16th at Singapore which will probably be reflected on negatively considering the strength of field he opened with a 76 and he was outside the top 100 off day one and he just fought back and just grinded it I absolutely love that I think if he goes and shoots a

a 76 to open the bay hill. Can he grind his way up? Yeah, it's probably a tournament. He could have checked out really easily, easily have to, I would assume. Yeah. Like he's, he's getting paid a fortune just to be there. He was playing with like the 14 year old team sensation. You know, he, he had no reason to really push anything, nothing left to prove. I don't think. And yeah,

the three you know PJ Torbjorn he's got two of them at the Valspar in Florida and the other one was the Houston Open where I think it's a bit of crossover so add that to your major take of obviously the fact that he'd finished inside the top 15 of all four majors last season I think Paul Casey is not really being respected I think because he had a little bit of a lull towards the end of the year people have kind of gone away from him quickly and there's so many shiny new toys out there Andy that you can kind of avoid Paul Casey if you want to but I think he's good value

Yeah, I think he's got, I think he's got like one more big win in him. I, and it's, it's going to come at a hard golf course where you have to drive the ball well and hit a bunch of long irons. In my opinion, you mentioned he was top 15 at every major last year.

I bet him at every major last year and, and I, I haven't actually bet him since, but he's one of those guys where he's going to look great statistically for me every week. And I have learned a little bit like, okay, like maybe the stats are a little better than his, his absolute ability to win. But I think every so often when it's,

kind of all comes together where it's the perfect combination of, okay, the irons are there right now. The ball striking is as good as it's ever been. And the course fit is perfect. Like what better opportunity is he going to have than one of these weeks? I know he's, what is he Tom? He's 44 now or 45?

Yeah, 45 to 1 over here. I think he's gone down to 35 on draft. No, I was talking about his age, actually. Oh, sorry. Sorry. Yeah, I think that's about right. 45, maybe even 46 now. I guess you can draft him up as a veteran, right? I think that's fair to do. Well, the point I was going to say is he hasn't...

he's picked up distance. Like he hasn't, he hasn't missed a beat at all. His long irons are as good as they've ever been. His driving distance is as good as it's ever been. And I mean, he really hasn't lost a beat. I mean, behind Morikawa in terms of iron play over like a large sample size, it's,

it's JT, Rom and him and Hovland and Henley pretty much are the, are like the best iron players like consistently in the world. So I do think he can win here and I do think he can win this season. Um, I really believe that. So I'm glad we're, I'm glad we're aligned on that one. Give me your next guy. Yeah. Just, just a one further out these 44, by the way, just to confirm. Um, but he,

I was looking at his major odds. So he was like 66 to one for the masters, 45 to one or 40 to one for all the refs. And I thought, you know, it's the same price he used this week. Like I know it's a strong field. I know it's a tough event, but he's got history and all these others. I know that the masters is obviously a bit juicier than this, but you know, that is the masters. That's a harder event to win, right? So I thought that the price was really fair. Yeah. I was kind of thinking about, is Adam Scott one of your guys?

No, but he was close. He was kind of close for me too, but I was kind of thinking like you could get Adam Scott to win the Masters at 80-1. I think I'd rather bet Adam Scott. I think Adam Scott is just as likely to win the Masters as he is the Arnold Palmer Invitational. I really believe that. So if I'm going to bet Adam Scott, I'd rather bet him at 85-1 than 35-1 to win at Bay Hill.

I speak way too often about waiting for players in deeper fields and I normally reference to players and for people like Serge and stuff. And what I do is I end up missing the win, right? But yeah, definitely Adam Scott's case. That makes the point that Adam Scott is worth waiting on for a couple of weeks, whereas Paul Casey is probably better now when you can take all the other guys out of the field. My next guy is Keith Mitchell. I thought...

that I would have to avoid him. And I don't, right? I think that... I don't think his progress has been attributed correctly, if that makes sense. I think that... I think people just think this is just like a decent run of form. And because he's not 200-1 like he was at the Honda in 2019, people don't want to bet him. And it's really weird because he's playing...

so well like tied 12th tied 10th tied 7th tied 9th in 2022 and then you go back to the cj cup he was third where he really could have won and you go back a little bit further and three him opened he was inside the top 10 i think it was fifth you know it's been a it's been a really substantial run of form that i think is being overlooked and then you just got to look at his you know sixth and fifth place finishes here and i think you've got a really good bet

Yeah, you know, I'm not going to do Mitchell this week. I completely understand it. It's more, I think he probably has the potential to be 20% owned in back-to-back weeks. I bet him last week at the Honda, he was quite good. I mean, he did it a little bit more with the putting than I would like. But I don't know. I don't know if I'm ready to say, I hear you. I think that he is not, it's not, I'm trying to think of a comp of a player that's,

I don't know, maybe like Kokrak. Perfect, right? I thought that Kokrak was a really sharp incline. And I mentioned last year that Lutelis was going to do a Kokrak. I don't think he's going to do the three wins in 18 months, but the win came, right? And I think that this is potentially going to happen for Mitchell, despite the fact he's already got that win. Do you know what I mean? When you just look at his form, he's had a third and an eighth already at Quail Hollow, really tough golf course.

He's contended at the Houston Open, but a crossover to this. Like, AT&T, Byron Nelson, Trinity Forest, 2018, third. Like, he's just done it. Northern Trust, eighth last year in the playoffs. Like, to me, he's doing everything that I want him to do. And I feel really vindicated in backing him, as I'm sure you do, last week at 35-1. And people were kind of

people were bemused by that price. And I was like, what odds do you want? Like, what odds can you make this guy? Like, he's the most informed player of that field. He's still one of the form players in this field, despite the fact that there's, you know, the best guys in the world here. It's the last time probably, right? Like, I think that he's either going to bomb out this week and we won't need to worry about him until...

you know, two or three months down the line again with these triple digits, or he's going to go so well again this week in the top 10 that he'll be such a short price for something that we just can't bet him. So I think it's going to go one of two ways. But to me, I just think he's being overlooked because his name's Keith Mitchell and not, I don't know, something, you know, more exciting. Well, yeah. I mean, he's, I mean, so he is, he's next to guys like Fleetwood,

and Sam Burns, who everyone was betting at 18-1 just a couple weeks ago, and Max Homa and Russell Henley. He's not... Sergio and Bazaydenhout. It's a little bit of a jump, but I think it's warranted. The course history is...

And I think both of us think that Keith Mitchell is able to do the two specific... I talked about this in the preview show where, in my opinion, to win at Bay Hill, the biggest correlation that kept coming up for me was the winner was either completely at the top of the field in driving distance and par-5 scoring or approach and proximity to the hole or scrambling and short game. And so I tried to find, okay, who are the best players in the world at...

driving distance, like what players have off the tee as a weapon, long iron proximity and scrambling. And the three guys that rated out in the top 25 and all those things were Sungjae, Rahm and Keith Mitchell. So this is a pretty near perfect course for him.

Yeah. And that's the kind of thought process in it is I'm just going to give it one more week. Like I didn't, I imagined he was going to be like 33 and 35 and I didn't want to do it. And then when I put the odds checker, I was quite this morning, he was 50 and I was like, right, that's in. You mentioned Homer. He's, he's the next guy. Okay. I've just peppered this range and,

Homer, by his own admission, was suffering from imposter syndrome. And he was wondering what it was like to go back at Riviera as a defending champion, whether he can shoot Tiger or Tex, whatever.

And I think he's growing out of that. And, and he should be right. Like he, he's such a good player. He's picking up distance off the tee. He was brilliant off the tee in Phoenix. He ranked fifth there, 25th at Riviera, defending champion with Tiger Woods in, you know, in presence. I know that's a little bit narrative based, right? But he didn't do an awful lot wrong. Like Wacky Neiman and Cameron Young just played lights out. And so did Colin Morikawa on Sunday. He's just great. Like he hasn't broken 70 here yet. So,

So his 24th and 10th place finishes, they almost feel like that's his flaw because if he can do that without even breaking 60, then what can he do when he does fire in that 68, 67 round, which inevitably I think is coming around his golf course when you look at where he's played well in the past. And every time you want Max Homer to justify himself. So he wins at Quail Hollow in good company. And you think, oh, maybe a bit of a flash in the pan. Goes and wins Riviera.

everyone thinks he's won Riviera maybe it'll be a while wins a fortinet okay different grade but just win win win and it's just like that's going back to what he was like as a college athlete it's going back to what he was like on the corn ferry before he had his struggles I just think that they're I think

I think he's his own worst enemy in terms of reputation because I think people see him as this guy that goes on barstool and goes on no laying up and roasts people's golf swings. So people think he's not serious about his own golf game. And I don't think that's anything further from the truth. I think if you listen to him, he actually does or used to do his podcast with Shane Bacon. He was very analytical of his own game, very much in the pursuit of being better. So I think that he's a lot better than people think.

because they just see him as this kind of happy-go-lucky guy that he's just taking what he can get. So you're basically saying his incoming appearance on Tap and Birdie wouldn't do well for his perception? That would not go well for his perception, although I do love BK. I do too as well. Well, okay, I like all those guys, Tom. The one guy that I'll throw in for you as well that I bet is

I bet Billy Horschel at 55 to one. Billy Horschel is about three times the price of what he was last week after a performance where he gained 3.5 off the tee and 5.8 on approach, which by the way, Tom was his best ball striking week in three and a half years. Could not buy a putt. So,

Listen, I wanted no part of him last week at 18 to one and 28% ownership, but I think this is where you want Billy, like the number, this is the number that he won the match play at. Um, honestly, I thought the ball striking performance at the Honda, he would be 30 to one this week. Um, and he is closer to that in some places, but I, I just think at 55 to one, uh, you're getting a really good number on a player that something is just clicking with recently. Um, he's,

He's figured something out with the irons. And I think everyone made last week their Billy Horschel week. And I actually don't really understand how you would hop off him after that ball striking performance if you bet him last week and now he's this price. But people move on quickly. So I actually think this is the week to take a shot on him. And I'll be there at 55 to 1. If Billy Horschel wins...

and Jason Kocrak misses the cup, I'm going to feel very silly because I went with Jason Kocrak over him. Just purely based on the slightly...

more consistent course form. And I do think course form needs to be weighted. But again, I love talking about just hidden form and nothing's hidden if you actually look for it. But what I mean by that is that people will open up the page that I'm using and they'll see 75th, 43rd, 44th, 20th, 13th, 54th, 50th, 36th and go, and then Mr. Carr can go, okay, well, he's never finished in the top 10, move on. And it's like, well, no, like,

you know, why was he 20th? What happened? Okay, well, he was 16th after 36 holes, had a bad Saturday, so couldn't contend. Then it goes to the 13th, and he had a really good Saturday, which powered him into the top 20. So that might not be where you want to look. But when he finished 54th, he was 7th after the first 18, 6th after 36 holes, and 18th after 54. So he was banging contention all the way along.

50th place finished the year after, third after round one, third after round two. Shoots a 77 on Sunday to slip down to 50th. Like, Billy Horschel isn't, or hadn't been until last week, jumping off the page in terms of statistically. So people weren't trusting him. I went with him at Phoenix because I was happy to overlook that and was just trusting that he was playing well. I don't have a good answer why I haven't bet him, apart from I went with Jason Cobrette.

Well, I don't have a good answer for why. Actually, give me your co-crack sell first because I have one final spot, Tom, and it's somewhere in the 45 to 70 range where I have one more room for one more. And the guys I was considering...

It was between Sergio, Burns, and Woodland. But I'll happily throw Kokrak into the ring too if you feel like I would be making a grave mistake with any of those three over him. I quite like that collection of players. So I'll never say that they're, especially like Sergio, I think that he's, again, another person to overlook because he's a little bit older and people like the shiny new versions. My feeling with Kokrak is

was that when he was a contender and a perennial contender, everyone thought he would win at Genesis or Bay Hill or something like that, Quail Hollow, where the ball striking would really come to the fore. And where he actually won was the CJ Cup, Charles Club and the Houston Open.

Which by the way, sorry to interrupt you, the Houston open. I think the Houston open, there is a good correlation there. That is a hard golf course with firm and fast Bermuda greens. And one thing that hasn't been talked about a ton is they got a new superintendent in 2019 that actually shaved off a bunch of the areas around the greens. And that's a lot the same way that Memorial park will,

So I just wanted to add that. Sorry for interrupting. No, no, absolutely. Because that was where I was then going is that despite them not being the events I thought that he would win, um,

They do loop in nicely in the fact that the Houston Open, the Golf Club of Houston before Memorial Park was, you know, a really good link to this event, you know, when you look back in the past. And I just think that when he was, was he 15th at the Genesis or something along those lines? He had a 67 and a 66 that week.

without being good to his degree. Like he just wasn't at his best, right? And he's finished fourth and sixth here back in 2014, 2015. He was third after 54 holes in both of those starts. Then you go to the last three years, 10th, 18th and 8th. And he's just consistently a very, very good golfer here. And I think that at the moment his finishes are...

His floor again is safe. He's kind of got that inner belief now that even if he's not got it, he can get round. He said before Houston that he was hitting the ball like shit and still managed to get that win and have no idea how, right? And I think that any given day, someone of his ability is going to just start striping it. And once he does that, he's going to contend again. And this could be the tournament. Okay. I like that. For some reason, I'm stuck on Burns. Do you think he's...

Do you think he's broken, Tom? He's missed three cuts in a row. At the start of the season, he was being bad at 20-1. Everyone was betting his futures in majors. Where do you stand with him? I don't think he's broken. I think that he's started to believe his own hype, and I think he should do because I think that's the hallmark of any good player, right? And I think that he's just had a bad run of events, and I think that

That is so much is put into that. The reason I didn't get to Burns is just because of what I liked about Burns is that like he used to contend that a lot of golf clubs, golf courses, you know, earlier in his career and kind of have one or two really good rounds. And it was kind of an indicator of where he's going to succeed once he figured it all out. And you'd probably argue that this could have been one of them. You know, he was fifth, seventh and ninth after the first three rounds here two years ago.

Just, again, just had a terrible Sunday. I mean, he shot 76, 79, so it was pretty much a bad weekend. Yeah, I think I just like the others better at that range. Like, I think it's three miscuts in a row. It's the 19th for the tournament champions. That's a long enough stretch that basically since the calendar flipped, he's struggled. And what is that? Like, what is he trying to do? Has he tried to find something else to go even better? Was he trying to...

I don't know, was he trying to find a bit of extra distance? Was he trying to find an area of his game that he was weak in to elevate his putting, which took him away from his irons and driver to try and get himself ready for the majors? Because that was the next natural step. I think there's just been a...

I think it's a great trait that he's not settled for what he's got and he's tried to elevate it and maybe just suffered in the short term. You know, what's odd to me about it, were you on, I'm like a late adapter to all this stuff, Tom. Were you on Twitter at this time last year?

Yes. Okay. So you probably, do you remember this? Because I remember last year was one of my first weeks on Twitter. And I say, I, when I say on Twitter, I had like 20 followers and, you know, I was just a fly on the wall, but I remember that.

Literally everyone bet Sam Burns at like 41. And this was before he was Sam Burns and before he had, I think, won two or three more times since and had this amazing, amazing fall swing too. And now he's at a higher number now than he was last year. No one's betting him.

No, I think it is. And I think this is going to be true of people that I'm going to can't speak about in a minute is that when people were backing Sam Burns, then they wanted to be the guys that were early on him. And they wanted to be the guys that were like, I bet Sam Burns in his first week. It's kind of what we're doing with Zala Taurus right now. Exactly that. Right. It's like, I am going to back him until he wins and people were doing it with Sheffler. I actually never used to back Sheffler and just happened to be on him the week as you were at Phoenix. Yeah. Um,

But, you know, on his debut here, he was 14th after 54 holes. People obviously loved that. And then, like I said there, he was, you know, fifth after the first round, 7th after the second. So people have seen it and just gone, right, this is the time. He's contended all the way at Genesis. Let's get into Sam Burns. And now it's like, OK, well, he's proven everything that you believed he could be. He's had three bad weeks, right?

And you just want to write him off because that's all it's always been. Fitzpatrick are the next go-tos. And I know those are two people that you've backed, but like, yeah, it feels like that's what people do. And, and there's another guy in the same range that I'm going to go into a minute. It's the same thing. They just, they just want to back the next best thing so they can say, I was there first. You can, you can jump there. Give me your next guy.

So it's one that I'm completely opposing. And the reason I'm opposing it was just because some people have such a strong take on him and it's, and it's Biz Whedon Howe, right? I think that, I think people are so keen to bet Biz Whedon Howe because they think he's like, he's a star from the DP World Tour that has come over here. He's got through the Corn Fairy finals and he's going to be the next winner and he's going to contend at majors and he's a South African star, right?

He doesn't have the natural path to success to win a PGA Tour event as a Louis or a Charles did. And Louis Eustachian doesn't famously win PGA Tour events very often, never, in fact, regular. So I just think for me, he has to play perfect, absolutely perfect golf. And when he was 18th year on his debut...

He was inside the top four, I think it was, after 54 holes. And that weather just turned dreadful. And everyone says that Brzezinski announced this massive grinder and he wanted to get tough. Shot 79. And like, that was probably his best chance of winning it. And then he, you know, shot three rounds of 70 last year, really solid. Shot 73 on the final day and moved up. So he was 11th after 54 holes, shot 73 and finished 7th. Like, I know that's

it's good that it shows us a grinding mindset. He's hangs in there. He can, he can do it. But to me, like statistically he's never jumping off the page and it's not like Billy Horshaw that we know what the upside is with him. He is never T to green that good. So I kind of just spent the last podcast I did slamming Buzz Whedon out, which is maybe a bit harsh, but I just think that like everyone's rushing to the window. It's better. And I don't really see it myself. Well,

Well, if we've learned anything from Mito, Tom, it might just be the name. Have you ever considered that? It could be, yes. There's two A's in the Christian. It's got Bez in there. But what's your take on Verswienhout?

He's fine. I think I'd rather bet Sergio. I agree with you. I think that the path for Bizayden Hout is a little bit more difficult than it is for some of these ball strikers. And if I'm going to take somebody with an elite short game and putter, I'd honestly rather pay up for Fitzpatrick because at least I know with Fitzpatrick, his driver is really improving and his irons are really improving. And with Bizayden Hout,

he's not a terrible ball striker. He's, he's, he's okay. He's just, he's average. Yeah. He's just so, and like, he's not long. He's not that straight that it may, he's not as Zach Johnson that kind of final Glover or whatever. He's, he's can get wild. He isn't long. Uh, he, he, he's not, his short game isn't even as good as everyone says it is. Like, he's just very, I don't want to say mediocre because it's very harsh. He's like a top 50 player in the world. Right. But he's,

I think he's... There's always this one guy that comes over from the DP world tour that everyone wants to rush to bet and wants to be early on. It was Aaron Rye, then it was Biz Whedon how. And I just think you need to pump the brakes and...

you know, he's going to have a decent season. Then that'll be fine. I love it, Tom. I love when, I love when guests come on and take hard anti stances. I'm, I'm all about it. I wish people did more of that. Oh, you know, you know who you reminded me of when we were just talking about Poseidon? How have you noticed like a big groundswell with Cameron Young? The trouble with Cameron Young, right? Is that he's just going to keep playing all the time he can because he needs to get into that players field this week. Right. And he,

in any other week in any other part of the schedule would he be taking a week off like prototypically this is a good course for him I think it's actually a really good set up for him I think he's great for that 200 plus range so I can understand that the benefits of backing Cameron Young but again I think it's the can I be on when Cameron Young wins rather than the I think he's actually going to win this week yeah

You actually took the one angle that I was taking with him is I said, I know the stats are really good, but he's the only guy on the PGA tour that hasn't taken a week off in two months. Like that's got to count for something. So I'm with you. I'm a little more lukewarm on him.

I got to ask you about Gary because this week I have a feeling that I am going to be formally welcoming everyone to Woodland Island. Some of us got in early and the real estate prices are just soaring now, but the dilemma that I feel like I face with Woodland is the same thing is the trauma that I incurred with what happened with Gooch, where I

I was singing this guy's praises week after week. And then once he started to become a thing, I said, fuck you guys. I was betting Gooch before it was cool to bet Gooch. And then I hop off right before he wins. Now, can Gary Woodland win this event? I think I maybe trust Sergio a little bit more for that final spot, but...

I have a hard time with him. I think if his performance was a little more based on ball striking, I would be more enticed. He hit the ball fine, but it was way more short game and putting, which I think is probably my biggest hesitancy. But if I could find, I think I'd probably rather bet like a Woodland 75 or 80 than I would a Sergio 50. Yeah, I get that. I think the upside of him winning isn't there.

Yeah, it's fair. I think that when you look at what he's done here in the past, and he's been a good player when he's visited here in the past, it's never been anywhere near contending. And I think although he has the skill set that suggests that he can contend anywhere and win anywhere, it doesn't really play out like that. He does just generally seem to have quite a select few places that he can win. I think it's dangerous to dive in on him at the time after he's finished in 5th,

But then on the other hand, you do have two quick trips to Florida and you could jump off. So if I was to have a bet in this range, it'd probably be Justin Rose, which I always get slammed for. I love Justin Rose. I always love Justin Rose. Well, I was having a harder time with him this week, but I could easily go there. Easily. Yeah.

I just think people have given up on him so, so quickly. Like I bet Justin Rose. Speak in my language, Tom. 70 to one in the Saudi international last year. And I was like, this is, I remember back in Justin Rose at 20 to one for the masters or 22 to one or whatever it was in 2017 against Sergio being absolutely devastated thinking that that was going to be the time he won it.

And now we're suddenly, I know it's five years and five years is a long time, but he was sixth at Tori. He was ninth at the Hero World, nothing particularly special. Twelfth at the RSM, like,

He's been solid and he's come into a golf course that he loves and he loves all of the correlating tracks that I like. So to me, I'm not ready to give up on Justin Rose. So I would take him over Woodland and I'd definitely play him in DraftKings. I think the funny thing about you and I, Tom, one thing that we have in common is that everybody feels they need to be there for the first Cameron Young win or that first Sam Burns win. And you or I are like,

I need to be there for this 45 year old's resurgence. I absolutely need to be there for this guy's, um, this guy's resurgence, like the Rose and the Casey and, and the Woodland and Sergio.

I like planting my flag and telling people that Christian Biswiden is not going to win anything and then being wrong and then take the guy that I know has proven it in the past. I'm just very sympathetic to Justin Ropes. I remember categorically ruling him out the week or two before Marion. I was at the BMW PGA Championship in Wentworth and I was watching him on the putting green and he could not buy a putt from three feet. Then he played terribly on the day that I watched him.

This was also the same week that I watched Gregory Bordy warm up on the range and thought he was the best player in the world. So, you know, he's dangerous just watching people warm up, right? But my mind is just always flipped on him. Like he's just the ultimate grinder. Like his whole career has been grinding. He's got to world number one by doing that. Do I think he's going to return to the top 10 in the world?

Probably not. But like, he doesn't need to, to have a successful career from here on out. If he picks up two or three more PGA Tour wins, like contends in a couple of more majors, you know, he's done it all, hasn't he?

Maybe some of these guys too, and Co-Crack fits this too. Maybe with the Saudi league a little bit on the rocks now, maybe some of these guys say, oh no, I really actually got to start. I have to play well. Yeah, I got to play well here. So I like that, man. Anyone else before we get into some bombs in this up to 100 range that we haven't talked about that you think we should? No.

he's in this kind of part of the best market. He's 7,100 on DraftKings. That's probably the better play. It was Lanto Griffin. Yeah. Like I remember doing the podcast last year and, and being not all in on Lanto Griffin, cause I don't need to be all in on Lanto Griffin ever, but I was, you know, pleasantly surprised with how good, um, he fit last year and he finished 21st. And if I remember rightly, he was inside, he was third after 36 holes, 11th after 54. Like he was really solid. And, and,

you know, just like it was at the start of the season, like six for the Shriners, seven for the Zozo, third at the Amex. People don't believe that he can carry on. And okay, it wasn't great at Genesis where he was 39th, where I bet him, but I'm willing to give him another chance. Not in the betting market maybe, but definitely on DraftKings. I love Wanto, always. You never have to twist my arm to bet Wanto. Let's talk about some of these guys a little bit longer. And I haven't done...

I haven't done anything a hundred plus, and I don't know if I actually will, but there are about four or five guys that I really like just as DraftKings plays or top 40 guys or top 20 guys, whatever you may have. You want to kind of go back and forth on three or four of those guys. I've got about four that I want to mention.

Is Sebastian Munoz one of them? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Let's start with Munoz. You go first on Munoz. So Munoz is my last guy in on my betting card. And I think that's about as far down as I'm willing to go in terms of bets. What number did you get on him, Tom? 130. Yeah. I'm staring at it. Yeah. And...

he's trending in the right direction 39th 23rd 21st his last three starts when he was 21st at rive he was 10th after 36 12 after 54. um second round 65 at sorry 64 in phoenix um

He missed a cut on his debut. Fine. Doesn't really bother me, but he opened with a 68 last year to sit fourth on Friday. 15th from first, his last two starts off the tee, fourth and third overall tee to green. And this is where your Olympia Fields thing sort of jogged my memory because he was tied eighth there. Yeah. And Bermuda greens, I think, are a good spot for him. And I kind of compared it in my last line in the Oddstracker article was kind of just a hat tip to Stracker. Like, yeah,

ball striking was giving them solid results but not necessarily yielding anything special I think Strackwell was 15th the Genesis after a really good weekend and that was kind of what Munoz is trending in that direction and you can get caught up and trying to find the next tracker a big event or whatever but

I think he's playing so well, like fourth and third. And I think he's even had another top four finish team screen over the last four or five events. Like he's striking the ball so well. He's always going to be in my first round leader thoughts every week. He loves doing that. But yeah, I think that would be someone as an outsider that I could really see consent. I'm a hundred percent with you. The one thing that I liked as well is he,

at Olympia Fields where he finished top 10, he gained like six strokes around the green. And the reason why I think that is significant is there are very few courses on the PGA Tour where you're going to have to chip out of thick rough onto rock hard greens. It's not something that players...

very often. Like you'll see it on the broadcast a lot this week where, um, and Memorial is another place where you have a lot of those chips out of thick rough into rock hard greens. But I really liked that Munoz like seemed to be really comfortable around the greens there because I think he's going to have a lot of similar shots this week. And I mean, he gained 5.9 and off the tee and 3.7 on approach at Riviera lost 4.3 putting. I'm not saying that you're

he wouldn't have caught Munoz, but if he was even just a neutral putter, he would have been right there in the top 10 at Riviera in that field. I think everyone thinks of him on Birdie Fest because he can fill it up. You're right. He is a great first-round leader guy, but he's been surprisingly better on harder courses than you would think. I'm right there with you on Munoz. The next guy I'll throw out

You actually alluded to him earlier with the Valero Texas open thing, but I love Martin Laird this week. 11 appearances here. He's made the cut 10 times. He won in 2011. Last start at Riviera, 6.4 ball striking, similar to Munoz, lost four putting. And now three in a row in three good fields. He's gone 46, 14, 39. He can make the cut here like he always does. And I think he is a very good play this week.

Yeah, what is it? One missed cup in the last 15 years. He was 43rd last year, but he was actually second after 36 holes.

Martin Laird just plays the same golf course as well all the time. All the time, yeah. This guy has been out on tour forever. And it's not even like the natural progression of a Scotsman coming from the European tour. He has been out there and he has just stayed there. And it's really quite admirable. I think it's great. He's never quite got to the elite status, but he picks up wins, you know, a decent clip. And like you say, he's just a guy that...

you know, where ball striking is rewarded, he turns up and certainly trust him in an event where he always makes the cut. Yeah. He hits the shit out of it. Like he led the PGA championship approach. Like he's just a random, like total ball striker. So yeah, I'm huge on him this week in draft Kings. Give me, give me another guy for you. Whether it be just like a, a draft Kings player, someone really farther down, farther down the board. So yeah,

I was interested in Dylan Fratelli and I have been a lot. And I think it's a dangerous thing because he's just so volatile, right? But you think about Bryson, right? If anyone's going to try and drive that kind of sixth hour, it's going to be Dylan Fratelli. He's not going to succeed because he's not Bryson DeChambeau. But, you know, he...

He is probably someone that gets too caught up in his socials. He's trying to win the pip, I think, just by flooding comments on Instagram. But he's been playing some good stuff. Like, he, you know, he's pretty solid. We know what he did at Masters that year. You know, 26th and 16th, the last two starts. 24th at Pebble Beach. 19th at Houston, which he obviously liked.

I think there's a path to Dylan Fratelli being useful, especially in draft kings, because people don't want to blame him because it's scary, right? And 6,800, yeah, I think he's pretty cool. Yeah, I actually gave out Dylan Fratelli to win the Open Championship in December at like 500 to 1. I think that he is our current best candidate for draft

the Angel Cabrera career where he has two wins in his entire career and both of them are majors. I just think that like last year, his three best finishes were the Masters, the Open Championship and the Players Championship. And he has these weird weeks where he just happens to pop up and generally they're at harder golf courses and in better fields. So I'm totally with you on that one.

I think as well, I don't know if that's just a motivation factor. Izzy just got to the point where he was... Because he was never a standout on the European tour. He was good. He won twice. But he beat Arjen Atwal and David Orsi. It wasn't anything special. Then he lost two events in playoffs. He lost to Nathan Holman and Alexander Levy. And you're like...

you know, what are you doing? You're meant to be better than that. And then I think he's just got himself to the PGA Tour, kind of made a decent living for himself. And like you say, he just pops up in these majors. I remember sitting there on the final day at St. George's last year and just...

watching Dylan Fratelli tee off in one of the penultimate groups and I was like what is going on here like what is this guy doing like it makes no sense but he he's given the gains a go for a reason like he he's a smart dude he knows that that driving is going to lead to success um the rest of his game is probably not tidy enough to to contend every week but yeah I think he can flash

Next guy I'll throw out, Tom, is Carlos Ortiz. I think Carlos Ortiz, I think he's a little underpriced in my opinion at 6.9 and at 150 to one. He's another guy who hit the ball great at Riviera. He's played well at this course before, and he's a good iron player, really solid from 200 yards plus.

He has a really bad short game, which worries me, but you're going to find a flaw with every single one of these guys that we're talking about in this range. But he won the Houston Open at Memorial Park, 25th at Olympia Fields. He's been pretty good on harder courses. So I think Carlos Ortiz is going to play well this week.

I spent a long time jesting with people that they'd love of Abraham answer that Carlos Ortiz is the best Mexican golfer. Wow. I like that. That's a good one. And for a long time, people kept getting very angry with me because I was right because he, you know, Abraham answer hadn't won. Yeah. He was, you know, um, and I know he was more consistent, but, um,

you know, Abraham Anson has gone to a different level since, and I've kind of been wrong on that, but Ortiz is good. Like you don't normally have to sell me on Ortiz. Like, um, you know, your second, the Mike over had that injury to me where he kind of had to sit out for a little bit of his shoulder. Um, 33rd, 39th last two starts. Um, again, Houston open winner. Great sign. Um, Genesis 2019 top 10, um,

I just like that. 11 for Farmers. I think all those classical tests and the four for Houston as well, all the classical tests to me are a good indicator of what he could do here. And he's been pretty steady in two top 30s here as well. Did EBR come up at all for you? It was one of those like,

I'm going to look at Van Rooyen because I suspect someone's going to play him and I'm going to have to understand why. But beyond that, I don't know why. Do you know what? Eric Van Rooyen is the perfect case study of the point I'm trying to make on Viswinenhout.

I get where you're going with that. Yeah. Do you need to keep Ben Bersuiden out or just wait until he goes and wins the three of open? He fits the name narrative too. Yeah. It's cool, isn't it? And he's got a cool mustache now. And the joggers, right? All the things that he does well are his clothing choices and his strange facial hair. Yeah.

I don't know. I think whenever Van Rooyen plays well, it's a couple of rounds at a time. And I think he is definitely capable of checking out. And I think there is a little bit of clinging on to what he did at the WGC Mexico three years ago, whatever it was, four years ago. Okay, I have, we'll say, two and a half more quick guys.

Keegan. I like Keegan this week. I, you can find a real price discrepancy with Keegan. He's like 65 to one on Fandle and one 30 on draft Kings. She's been really good on this course. She played her 10 times, made the cut nine times, three top tens, two top fives. I've talked about before, like, especially with some of these lower price guys, I want them to be elite at one of those things. And for middle to long iron play, I,

Keegan is about as good as you're going to be able to find in this range. And I think there's a universe where, I mean, Corey Connors finished third here last year. The thing with rock-hard greens is,

Tom, is that if you have a really high, high ball flight with your long irons, you have this massive leg up even more so than at a course like Torrey Pines where the greens aren't as hard and Keegan hits the ball high and he hits his long irons really well. So I think that's an attributable skill that can set them apart from a lot of the other low seven and six K golfers here.

I love Keegan. The only time I ever worry about Keegan is he's always going to show up in those models. Like he's a, he's a good model goal for you. I see, Oh God, I've got to put Keegan in. I'm a slave to Keegan being in the model. And, and I actually like it when people tell me that Keegan can't win because this is a guy that that's continually proven that he can win. He's won major championships. He stung me when he beat Justin Rose in a playoff at the FedEx cup playoffs. And, um,

Yeah, I love Keegan. I think he's a great player. I think that, again, he's another guy that if you actually, you know, he's got the third, second and tenth, so people don't think they need to look any further. But when he was 46 three years ago, he was first after the 36 holes and sixth after the 54. So, again, fine around 78. I think that that's the thing is that there are guys that

everyone is going to have one of those kind of check out 78, 76 rounds at some point here. And you just pray it's not on Sunday when you're in contention. So outside of Munoz, before I give you my final guy outside of Munoz, who would you say your favorite guy in, in the sexes or low sevens is quite like Bo Hosler.

And I think it's one of those things where it could be a little bit of recency bias, but there's this kind of, he's been turning up a little bit. He's 6,700. When you look at his three starts here, his three made cuts, he was 66th on debut, nothing special, but he shot second round 66 on his second start. And then he was 24th on his third start. And bearing in mind, this is,

in the midst of when he was kind of struggling with his game. And you just look at kind of where Bo Hostler's played well in his career. And again, he's another guy that played well at Houston, obviously lost out in that playoff to Ian Poulter, the famous chest pump. You know, and I just think you just look at the courses and

uh, that he contends on their tough golf courses. We know he's a guy that contended at us open from a young age. Um, and I think he's probably been, I don't think people believe that he can keep it up. And I actually think that he's probably going back to the standard that he probably was at. Um, and I quite like his chances of, of a top 20. Yeah. I was going to say, um, you know, he almost won the U S open at like 15 years old on a, another course, um,

uh, Olympic club, which has very thick, thick, rough and, and firm greens as well. Um, the lowest I would probably go is Patrick Rogers. He gained 2.7 at the Honda and he's made five of six cuts here with three top 25s and a top 10. Um, he would have been way higher on the leaderboard last week if he could putt and he actually putts really well here. Um, and he, um,

He drives it really well and he's got a decent short game. So at least he's like the skill sets align with this course in my opinion. So I would actually feel okay playing him here at 6.5, but I'm only probably having to go down here because I'm so heavy on ROM. Yeah, and I think that is probably the case, right? If you have to, then there's guys down here that can probably serve a purpose.

It's tough. I mean, it would be really easy for me to say go and play like Adam Reschenka 6100 because he's a guy that's finished top 29 here. Hudson Swofford burnt a lot of people last week. You know, again, has the kind of skill set that could play into hands here. I think JJ Spawn's sneakily been pretty good of late. He's got two made cuts here, full snark and 63rd and has been pretty steady. I think

It's tough, man. As you say, the other thing I was interested in thinking about was are people going to jump straight off Adam Svensson because he let them down so poorly badly yesterday?

What is Svensson's price? Where is Svensson? So he's 6,700 on DraftKings. I thought he'd be more expensive. Well, that was the thing. I thought he was just going to be a point where I would have to make a decision on it. And all of a sudden, I don't. I think he was kind of like 140 to one as well, something like that maybe. Let me just try and find his price here. I mean, I don't particularly think I want to bet him, but I think as a nice bounce back spot because people –

Yeah, 250 to one years of drive kings. You know, I think people are just going to give up on him because he let them down. That's just a typical thing that happens. And yeah, I think he's probably worth another shot. Yeah, I guess the reason why he wasn't doing it for me statistically is because

He's so bad around the greens, but you look at the Honda and I'm pretty big on like bunker play and scrambling and all that type of stuff. And he's not good at any of those things. But you look at the Honda last week, he gained 4.6 around the green, which is like by far the second best around the green week of his entire career. So yeah.

Yeah, I like that one for sure. I mean, the ball striking, he, I think, led the field in tee to green last week at the Honda. So I like that one. I'm surprised that he's that low. The last guy that I want to ask you about. So Patrick Reed's 150 to one now and 7.4 and probably sub 5%. Just tell me no. I just, I need someone to tell me no. Don't do it. It can only end...

The trouble is, you say it can only end one way, and you say that he's got 7th and 15th place finishes here, and even when he was 50, if he was in the top 10 after 36 holes. I think what you've got to realize is that the two times he's missed the cut and the other time he finished 52nd is probably the most likely result. Even if he makes a cut, what is his upside? He's sneaking down into the price and draftings of where he belongs at the moment. You're right. You are right. You know what was weird? He gained a stroke off the tee last week.

But he also lost six strokes on approach. And he's not even... Like, his best hope to make cuts right now is...

like gaining four or five putting and gaining four or five around the green. He's not even really doing that right now. So I needed to hear that. Thank you. Thank you for saying that. Cause I played him last week at, at sub 5% and I felt like the smartest guy in the room after he was looking great off the tee and featured groups on, uh, on Thursday morning. And, and that fell apart very quickly for me on, on Friday.

I think the other guy, just quickly, that I can't seem to quit, that will probably, I think he'll probably actually be quite popular considering what he did here last year is fresh to memory, but Lee Westwood, 7,100. Like, he will probably, you know, because people will remember him just taking Bryson down the stretch in a complete clash of styles. I remember that, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I actually read over those last 15 holes, he was never more than a stroke behind Bryson. So he really did take him to the end. And I don't know, he's hitting the ball well. It's tough. The results are not as good as the stats suggest they should be. So maybe it's just going to be a middling finish. But at 7,100, he could probably make you a cut in the top 20.

That kind of taps out all the guys that I had. Anyone else you think we missed before we do a quick recap?

I think Lucas Glover's interesting, like he is always. You know, he's played some good golf. Again, he lets people down, so people jump him off very quickly. Just check his price on DraftKings. I can't remember his FD. I think he's like 6.8, right? 7.2. Oh, wow. So, you know, whether the 30th place finish was deemed a success at Honda last week or not, that would certainly be a success for me in this field. At 7.2, I'm just plugging the line-up.

And I think he could succeed. Let's do a quick recap, Tom. I went with Fitzpatrick 29, Zalatouris 29, Casey 41, Horschel 55. And that final spot for me is most likely between Burns, Sergio, Gary. And if I end up going with Gary at a little bit of a bigger number, I'll probably have room to add Munoz. But what about you?

Yeah, so for me, I lived in that kind of 50 to 1 range. It was Paul Casey at 41 to 1, Max Homer at 50, Keith Mitchell, 45, Coker at 50, and then

I did go with Sebastian Munoz, which I think you should probably put on your card because I think it was your Olympia field say that really finalized it for me. So I think you'd be the silly nuts put me in your car. Okay. So no, I will. That's what I needed to hear. You're right. I will definitely go Munoz as well. It's an easy, like 130 to one. You can find a way to fit that pretty easily. I always say that once someone's over a hundred to one, you don't need to find, you know,

reasons to oppose them. You just need to have one or two reasons to take them. And once you do, that's it. I like that. Well, all right, man, Tom, please tell everyone the extensive list of ways that they can find you this week. Yeah. So you can find me on Twitter at TomJacobs93. You can find me on OddsChecker.com. I currently do three articles a week, course preview, early liens preview, and a first round leader article, which will be out tomorrow now.

I do the Lost for Words podcast. There's me, myself, Jason, Daniels, and Bradley Todd on there. And then I also do the Mayo Media Network show with Skylar Hoke. Love to hear it, Tom. Well, everybody, please check out Tom's work. He's one of my favorite people to talk to in this space. And Tom, it was great to see you, buddy. We'll do it again soon. Andy, thank you for having me on, bud. Always enjoy it. And we'll catch up soon.

All right. Carlos Estrada is here, senior creative at Media Arts Lab for Apple. I'm pulling that off Twitter. Also, my good friend and euphoria will say consumer. I know you've gone back and forth on this show like I have. So I'm

I want to kind of start here before we get into the minutiae of the finale. What originally drew you into this show and how would you describe your relationship to it in the wake of its second season? All right. Well, first off, thanks for having me. And it's so cool to be talking about this. I think like the first, I mean, honestly, like

I just heard about it. I thought the name was pretty cool. Didn't really know much about Zendaya. I didn't know much about a lot of the talent. I know that 824 was involved in it, and I'm a fan. So I just put it on one day and then stumbled upon something that I guess grew to become very personal to me. So did you watch the first season as it aired, or did you catch up, I think like many did, during when the pandemic first started?

I can't remember when I first watched it. I did catch up. I didn't watch the first season as it aired, but I watched the special episodes as they aired. Okay. We've talked before earlier. I can't remember what episode it was after. It might have been after the second or third, but I remember you saying, I think I'm out. This season, yeah. This season, right? I'm curious as to...

Why were you out at that point and what drew you back in? Because I think you came back in strong.

I came back in strong. I think I, you know, coming out of the two special episodes, those were, and even the first season, it grew to be something that was not just important to me, but I think culturally important in today's modern age and society. And I had very strong feelings about that. So coming into the second season, my expectations were a little skewed. I think that

I had expectations for it to be as impactful right off the bat and be revelatory to me. And as we drifted into these high school motifs and more shallow drama, I started to get really, really turned off.

And yeah, I think I was upset every Sunday for like the first three, three episodes or two, the first two episodes. And, and it's funny because I actually like made a distinction to the show itself. I felt like, I felt like Rue in that moment. And like when Jules walked, walked away from her on the train at the train station, I felt like the show walked away from me.

in the middle of the second episode. And I think that's an overarching theme that I'll get into through this discussion is that this show...

And the cross currents of like emotions that you see Rue experiencing or even a lot of the other characters, you yourself go through. So I don't know why I got back into it. I was probably bored on a weekend. I was like, I know that there's this show. I'm invested enough in the storyline. So gave myself like a week or so to reset my expectations and then jump back in.

And I think it's what you already just started touching on there. I want to talk about this just a little bit before we actually get into the finale, but it really has became a little bit of a cultural phenomenon. I mean, the doubles, the ratings doubled from last season. And right before, I don't know if you noticed this, right before the finale started tonight, HBO Max like crashed.

Yeah, I heard I saw it on Twitter while I was on my way to get food so I could watch it with food. Yeah, I think like it's rare in today's age of disposable content, even especially I'd say long form content that you see something that's memorable beyond 24 hours. And I would, I'll get into this probably later too. I would argue that

Euphoria season two might be the most important cultural show I've seen. I agree. In a really long time because it honors, it honors what it's like to be, to, to be alive right now. And I think, you know, it's too often we see the same things repeated in, in entertainment, but the problem is that what it, what it's like to be alive and what people are experiencing in real life is changing. And a lot of that stuff doesn't hit anymore. Um,

Yeah, that's it for me too. I think what really drew me in the most was, okay, I've never seen anything like this before. And this director, Sam Levinson and writer and creator and all the above, he's clearly taking risks and willing to go places that I don't think...

that most other shows would honestly kind of tiptoe around, right? Like, I look at Jules, and she's the first, I think, really, like, to be a major, major character in a TV show, the first trans character that I've really seen in a television show, yet the fact that she's trans isn't even whatsoever part of the plot, right? Like, it is...

It is relevant and topical without trying and making much of a deal of it, if that makes sense. It's irrelevant and topical in the way that I think that it is aspirational for a lot of the LGBTQ society. It's a thing. It's there. It's not there.

It's not the news. Yeah. I think with the addiction piece too, like I try and think about, you really get the sense, um, and we'll talk about real a little bit later, but a lot of the stuff that, that they handle with addiction, that was really personal to me. I, I,

I just didn't feel like I had seen it portrayed that way before. And tell me if this makes sense. It felt like it was the type of content surrounding addiction that only could have been written by somebody that had experienced that type of darkness. And I don't know if I always feel that way when addiction gets broached in TV and movies. I would say I've only felt that way about Euphoria and Cherry.

played by Tom Holland. And there's a level of nuance, I think, that comes with it that you can't produce unless you've been in it. Sam Levinson was an addict and he had the experience. He was coaching Rue on how to act and stuff, which, I mean, it came through. There was a couple...

really minor moments where you know with like the rooms of like the 12 step stuff where you'd see like okay this is like a set but like for the most part 98% of the show is like on point what it's really like to be out there and

touching on a level that is almost unspoken to people who resonate with that. Last question before we get into the actual finale. Did you watch the bottle episodes that they released earlier, the one with Rue and then the one centered around Jules? Yes. You mean the special episodes? The special episodes, yes.

I would still say that Rue's special episode might be one of the most impactful things I've stumbled upon on television in my entire life. I think it's the best episode of television I've ever seen. Honestly, I really do. And it's funny because it's hard to gauge that. I would say that

This season had some bangers of episodes. I have my personal favorites, but those two special episodes transcended banger. They transcended, it ventured into territory of like a cultural milestone for millennials and Gen Z living that.

And I feel like it didn't... I don't want to say that it got swept under the rug because all the people that I've talked to feel the same way, that those two...

episodes of television were some of the greatest things that they've ever seen. But I think the way that it came out and then there was this big break before and this big break after, I don't want to say they were forgotten, but I think back to those and I actually watched them right before the season started. And we'll talk about this with some of the characters, but I think the Jules one I thought was excellent too. And I think if

The biggest flaw, the biggest criticism that I think I've heard with the show so far is

They put out these storylines, and then it feels like some of them just get backburnered really quickly and without any real explanation. And there are certain characters in the show, and I heard this as a criticism a lot for the second season, where, for example, Jules just isn't really a part of a show for the final four episodes. Her usage rate in the final four episodes is just really, really low. And Kat is...

is a character that has this very, very prominent storyline in the first episode. And she gets completely backburnered in season two. And I think that is somewhat of a valid criticism of the show, I would say. 100%. I would also argue that it's

They already pulled off something absolutely impossible, in my opinion. I don't know how you go to a company like HBO and seeking funding and I'm like, I want to do this double episode thing

acting play, you know, spinning set. And they're like, yeah, you dude, here's like $25 million for like wardrobe. So I don't know how you, I don't know how you get cleared for that. So in my opinion, they already pulled off the impossible. I agree. Like it's going to upset some people. One thing that I've noticed is that like,

no matter who you are, you resonate with the character in the show. So there's some people who resonated with cats who, you know, have kind of been like left in the dust a little, but I'm confident that those storylines will come back. And, you know, something interesting just to touch on the two special episodes that you mentioned was that, I don't know, it's really funny. I was watching the finale last night with a friend of mine and I would say their experience was,

leans more towards Jules as Jules' special episode, whereas mine leaned towards Rue's special episode. And it's funny, as we were watching the finale, we were having... I mean, you're siloed in your own experience, no matter who you're, like, watching it with right next to. They can... They're having... You're having a close and personal tie and draw to experiences you've lived through yourself. So I think, like...

Good on them for trying to cast the wide net. It's shitty that they couldn't focus on Kat more or bring Jules into the fold more. But I also think that at the end of the season, that's a technique they're using because Jules essentially was disloyal and she's not a part of Lexi's story. She took Rue away from Lexi.

she this is good yeah you know so that like it's not like lexi's gonna put her in the play she stole her from she stole rue from lexi so you know i did think jules was gonna show up in the play but i guess it makes sense to me now yeah okay that was a that was a very good take this is why i brought you in all right let's talk let's get into the actual finale here so

The series finale was called All My Life My Heart Has Yearned for a Thing I Cannot Name. Now, I did a little digging and the title of this episode is apparently an Andre Breton quote from his book, Mad Love, who is a French surrealist author from the 1930s.

I'm not even going to try and attempt to understand some of these titles, but I found it so interesting, the choices that Levinson has made with his references and what he's been inspired by in some of these episodes. Yeah, it's great. I mean, he's establishing a lore. Maybe not in the same respect as Star Wars or something, but his own version. And I think that...

The title actually was the perfect title because I don't know. I don't really know how to even get into the finale. I'll just start from like the large, the large, broad strokes. I haven't cried in like two years and I cried like three times during that episode because it touched me on such an emotional level. Even that title, when I saw it, the screen was paused. I was like finishing up my food before I was going to start it. I like was reading it being like,

already connecting to like the culmination of so many things. And by the time the episode ended,

there was a part of me that felt like I had healed, if I'm being honest. Which I think was the point. I think that was part of... I mean, there are some still loose ends, which we'll talk about, but I think that is the way that you're supposed to feel at the end of a season of television. I don't know if Levinson is intentionally doing that. I don't know if anyone has the actual power to

place an emotion within someone else, you can strive for that. But I think Levinson is simply telling a story that far too many people have lived. I was with my friend watching it. And, you know, a little backstory is my father died eight years ago. So there's like a whole extra layer of how I relate to Rue. And my friend,

They've had some, some, you know, parental things going on where they related to Lexi. And it's so funny, like by the, they're like the duo of these two storylines all culminating at like one moment was like, it was therapeutic. It was cathartic. And yeah. Yeah. I,

I, what you made me think of there was I was reading about this today, but I, I guess the idea of the play in the final two episodes, and this just speaks to how meta this show has become and what Levinson is really going for. But obviously I think Rue is at least semi auto autobiographical for character for Sam and Rue seemed like,

to heal and forgive herself during that show. And I think maybe Sam using that is Sam saying creating euphoria has maybe helped me forgive myself for my addiction as a teenager. Maybe I, man, this is, it's, it's so crazy because why I brought you in. It's so crazy. Uh,

Maybe I would, you know, like, obviously I'm going to make it a mission to like meet him one day and like have a conversation. Which I believe you will do. Yeah. I mean, I think I can eventually, but I will say that Rue watching Lexi's play was a way for her to step back and objectively like see Lexi

the events that had passed from, from with a different, like wider view. And in doing that, she said the line, you know, seeing your play was the first time I, I can't remember the exact line. The first time I give myself or something. No, no, no. She said, she said, this is the first time I've been able to not hate myself. She said the word hate, hate myself. And that was the moment that I absolutely started. I was,

I was leaking, bro. My father died 2013 while I was already an addict. And, you know, way before I got sober. And at the time he had passed away, I think like, you know, I wasn't exactly present. I was like 23. And like, we were all young and he was old and

And I remember he like texted me that morning and like, we just didn't respond. None of, none of me or my brothers responded. And I don't think I could have done enough therapy. I don't think I could have talked to enough people to realize that I absolutely hated myself for how, for how absent I was in that relationship leading to that moment. And watching euphoria was literally like,

like Rue watching Lexi's play, because at that moment that she said that line, I realized that what drove me in my addiction was the fact that I hated myself because I wasn't present for the most important person in my life, leaving this plan of existence. And as she said that me realizing that me watching the show is a step back, looking at it from a wider perspective, I was able to embody that feeling of like, wow, I don't hate myself. I'm, you know,

And I think like that was like the craziest experience because it was essentially like, I don't mean it was, it was essentially like a microcosm macrocosm of like what I just watched. I, and you know, it's, it's kind of cringy because I like everyone wants to make the show about themselves, but I think maybe that's a, that's a good thing. It was for me in that moment, my friend was sitting there resonating with Lexi's,

story, the same, the same thing, you know, bawling because that perspective gave them perspective. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, so crazy. And I think like that with the part, the genius of the show that, that brought me through the second season was, was not what was shown, um,

It was what was not shown, actually. The nuance of, like, touching on these, like, things that are happening. But while you're in it, you're in it. You can't, like, take a step back in the show. You're tied to these characters. You're close to them. You're close to, like, what's happening to Fez and, like, what's doing, what's going to happen next. And the absence of acknowledgement to how...

How Rue's father dying is playing a part in her addiction is something I really resonated with. They acknowledge it by not saying anything. They acknowledge it by showing the chaos. They don't acknowledge it by making an episode about it. And I think that's where the true genius is, what's in between the lines. I mean, they do such a good job of creating these ideas. Like you saw it with

this half of kind of the second season where, uh,

They really said, okay, we're going to actually dive in a little bit deeper and try and figure out why Rue is this way. Obviously, I mean, they did this a lot more in the first season. They did it a little bit in the second season, but I thought their cold opens with the backstories were, some of them were phenomenal. I mean, the one that opened this season, the cold open on how Fez kind of came to be Fez, I thought was brilliant. And

And I thought the one with Cal, who's a character we can talk about a little bit later, was brilliant as well. And I liked the way that they attacked this storyline with the passing of Rue's father a little bit more head on where they kept going back at certain places without having it really be pushed in your face, but they kept kind of going back to the funeral, right? In little spots, right?

Yeah, I think it had to be the intention since the beginning, in my opinion, because I don't think, you know, just from a writing standpoint that you can just shift into that. And I think like,

if I'm trying to establish like a catch-all overarching sentence, it's like, it's really about the story about how things happening in everyday life drive people and motivate them. And like, I'm sorry, but like a father dying early, addiction, divorce, someone being, people questioning their sexuality. These are not rare instances. These are rampant,

things that happen to everyday people all across not only our country, but the world. And it's just a, I mean, it's just crazy that for the first time we're seeing like a piece of mainstream media acknowledge how like these normal things that happen to everyone are driving people to like these places of darkness and confusion in 2022.

All right. Well, I want to go through some of the characters with you, Carlos, and I want to ask you how you felt like their storylines were wrapped up and maybe where you see them going in season three. I want to start with Fez and, I guess, Ashtray. Did you know that this actor who played Ashtray is an up-and-coming boxer? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, because I follow his Instagram. He's ripped. I wouldn't have known it without following the Instagram, but I mean, excellent directing. You know, like, getting involved with, like, talent, someone who probably, like, isn't great at acting, or maybe he just is. Um...

I read that they needed to kill him because he was cast when he was 11, and then he hit puberty and started getting really tall.

True. I always do hate that when you come back from one season to the next and someone is way different looking. The Harry Potter effect. Yeah. I think with both of these, with Ashtray and Fez, and specifically Fez,

I'm very curious to see where they go with Fez because Fez in itself has become a little bit of like a cultural phenomenon himself. Like he's become so much of a fan favorite and like,

I don't know if they can stick him in prison. I also don't understand a logical reason how Fez doesn't go to prison for that, but it's also euphoria and there are the occasional plot holes. But how do you feel about the way that they wrapped things up with Fez and where do you kind of see him going moving forward?

Uh, I think it was accurate. I mean, I so much of what was of what happened to Fez since the first episode is like accurate resonated with me. I mean, the disclosure I'll put forth is I've lived like a pretty questionable lifestyle. So a lot of the things that that have happened to Fez happened to me in my past. I think the overarching story is like,

for me at least maybe, this is maybe overarching stories, but like certain lifestyles and choices you make

they result in sacrifices of what really matter. And in this case, like connection to Lexi and like showing up for her, which sucks. And it's, it's like never, you know, everyone will say it's like not Fez's fault, but like, in my opinion, it's Fez's fault because that's like, what are you doing? I would also say, I don't think, I don't know. I don't know what happens now that is we do. We do even know that Ashtray is dead.

I think that was a headshot. I think that there was a deliberate moving of the little red dot up to his head. I'm being hopeful. But I guess I don't know what happens. Does Fez blame it on Asher right now that he's gone? Or does Fez just get so depressed that he's like, fuck it, I'm just staying in prison for whatever? Or is this a thing that...

I don't know. Maybe they didn't have enough evidence. Maybe it was like no probable cause, a legal search and seizure. Who knows what can happen? I think like there's room to, there's room to go, but I'm confident that,

I'm confident they'll make it something interesting and relatively accurate. I wouldn't say I'm stoked about how it ended because my boy didn't show up for the play, but he definitely is a cultural phenomenon and that will weigh heavily into how the stakeholders try and shift the script for season three. Maybe half the plot of season three is Faz and Cal teaming up in prison.

Maybe. That's crazy. Maybe Fez escapes. But if I had to guess one thing, I think Lexi starts to visit Fez in prison and maybe he comes out willing to do something different. Let's talk about...

Elliot, who's played by Dominic Fike, who was also became very culturally relevant this season. What did you think of his performance in totality? What did you think of his pretty, his main shining moment was a four minute song, uh, that, that he, that was actually co-written by Zendaya and Labyrinth. Um, how do you think about the way they wrap things up with Elliot? Yeah.

I think they did it gracefully. It's like he was never meant to be a main character, I think. And like, I think like, I mean, he's a fuck boy a little bit. And that's like about as much...

attention a fuckboy deserves it gets in real life it's like intimate and intense for a second and then it's gone so I don't know where it goes with it I mean I thought the song was an absolute banger it was amazing yeah absolute banger shot beautifully tight on the face and the guitar it was like great I think like I resonate with Dominic Fike's character Rude and I probably resonate with Fez as like my three

I think that, yeah, I don't know. I don't need anything more from Elliot's character. I'll tell you that much. I really liked the way that they were going with the love triangle. I thought the scene between her and between Jules was,

And Elliot was like one of the more intoxicating scenes of the season. Like I thought that was... I thought that was so well done and it was like in the dark, but they just had that lamp there. And I just...

I thought that was really well done. And I hope that I don't really know where they can go from here with that like aspect of the storyline, because again, it was something that we kind of saw in like episodes four or five, three, four and five. And then they kind of just bailed on that a little bit, but I really hope that Elliot has like a high usage rate in season three. I think he's a star. Like, I think that actor is incredible.

Yeah. I guess I, I would, I wouldn't be upset about it. I would also say that I, I like how their love triangle thing and how fast it fizzles out honors the culture of casual sex. Cause I think that is like, I think that just happens. It's like motherfuckers beef hooking up and then just not talking ever. And then that's probably like text them in like two years and you know, fuck again. And then that's it. And,

And that's kind of Elliot's whole ethos, right? Like is the idea that when he gets asked about his sexuality, he's like, I don't know. I don't really care. Like I've slept with some men, slept with some women. It kind of just is what it is. And he has this very ambivalent and kind of nonchalant way about him with his relationships, whether they be sexual or intimate or whatever, that I think provides this interesting, uh,

contrast to someone like rue and jewels and especially jewels who is so intense and i think the way that she feels yeah i will say that between those three characters they have an opportunity to culturally normalize something and they should be really intentional with it but i agree with everything you said i'm interested to see if he comes back how the like

IRL relationship will play out with Hunter Schafer. Yeah. And, and like how that plays into it. But I mean, they have this, this damn production has like everything going for them. They have the like relationship in real life that like drives the discussion for the in show with the like two biggest actresses on planet earth probably this week, you know? So it's like, we'll see what happens. Yeah.

What about Jules? Because I kind of alluded to this earlier, but I feel like I wanted to see her usage rate a little bit higher this season. And I feel like she was...

barely in the show for the second half of the season outside of, I thought, the moment towards the end where she said, I love you one more time to Rue. And I think her role in basically, I think it was titled Beast, the Mockingbird episode, right? The big Rue intervention episode. I thought Jules was kind of brilliant in that. But how do you feel about

where Jules is at and how do you feel about her getting a little bit back, Bernard? I think you already presented a pretty good case for why that makes sense. I think the goal of the show is... We may not call it the show. I don't know what the goal of the show is. I don't work on it. But I would say the way I approach the show is I'm looking at it through the lens of intention. So if

Jules has made a play that betrays the like almost purity and sacredness of what her and Rue had. And Rue has began to, you know, maybe the beginnings of starting to see what's good for her and what's bad for her. And like, I mean, in real life, this shit happens. I'm sorry, in high school, when you fall in love with someone, like it's just like wait 10 to 14 business days and you literally don't.

don't care you know i think that's the case all the time so it for me it's accurate and i for me i think it's it's it's more of just a commentary on like on on what happens with those types of relationships and friendships um but yeah maybe we're meant to just disregard jules for a little bit because that's what rue is doing well let's get into the big one which is real i i

I mentioned that this was an autobiographical character in some respects for Sam Levinson. She's kind of the fulcrum of the show. Zendaya is also one of the biggest stars in the world right now. And it's also probably the character that you and I both relate to the most. So where do you think things stand with Rue? I mean, how do you...

How do you feel about, where do you see her battle with addiction going in season three? Because I have a couple of takes on this. Honestly, I haven't thought about this too much, but I think it's bullshit that she just like stayed sober for the rest of the school year. Yeah. I mean, granted she wasn't like banging heroin, like every day she's taking pills. I think, I don't know if they're going to stay accurate to like what's really going on in the world. She'll relapse.

um you know and we're like who knows what it is like someone new will come into the mix and influence her decisions or um or she'll go like completely straight edge or like she'll probably change who she is at some point if it was happening in real life like i don't know take a form of like an interest or like a hobby or something but i don't know what they're gonna do with the show or i think

We never got an explanation of if she paid the 15K back. What was it? Was it 15K? Yeah, it was like 10K. And Lori basically insinuated on multiple instances that she was going to use Rue for human trafficking. And then we just got a revolution to that. But I also caught the drift that someone told Fez and Fez may have paid it off.

that's a good one i didn't consider like an episode or two ago where fez picked up the phone he was like no what the hell i don't know if that was related but i always like saw that like someone told fez that like she went over to laurie's that's a good that's a good theory i did not think about that at all but that would make some sense yeah and i think like i mean quite frankly uh chloe cherry i don't know what her character name is but uh

She basically ratted on Lori to the microphone. I don't know what happened with that. I support their decision not to address that stuff. It would steal the attention away from the more emotional, important parts of this thing. We reached a culmination point

I think we got to see more of Ali and Rue in the next season. I think there's probably going to be a couple episodes, maybe. Who knows? The new season is supposed to come out until 2024. So, yeah, cool. Yeah, I think with Rue, the natural arc is for her to...

relapse again i don't i don't think it would be realistic for her character for the entire plot of season three to be centered around rue being in a i think a more natural progression would suggest that there are a couple more bumps in the road and challenges um i i think it's interesting where they could go with like i i think they did this for a reason carlos where i they they

they have that quick, very quick discussion between Rue and Elliot where she asked him, are you using? And he said, yeah, a little bit. So I could see maybe a situation where the roles get reversed a little bit. And Rue is kind of in a position where, um,

she has to help Elliot a little bit or she sees it a little bit from the other side of it. I think that could be something interesting. I've heard theories, Carlos, where people were floating out theories that this entire time Elliot is like a figment of Rue's imagination. So I could see them taking it anywhere. I don't think that's true. I don't know. I tend to lean on what's happening in real life to real win.

women and men like her age. And I think there's a couple realities you got to address is like, I think sometimes people just get caught up and then they get a little bit of clean time and then they move on to different interests and they're never like fucked up ever again. They're just normal.

Like they just drink like normal people. They're not like addicted to pills or anything. They're just normal smoke weed. And like, they're, I don't know, who knows she's like into EDM or something, you know, like who, you know, that's what like people do. They shift, they, they're like chameleons and they change like their interests and it affects their whole life. I think at some point drugs become part of like the conversation again, because it's like a, it's a

It's a touchstone of the show, but I could also see like Rue having other challenges beyond narcotics, beyond relationships. Like who knows what, what it could be at this point, you know, who like, it could be emotional where her mom is something happens to her mom where like, or her little sister. Yeah. Yeah. I think the little sister is going to get some playtime on. I think that emotional connection is going to be the strong and like where that goes. I think like,

Who knows? Someone, I mean, if Fez is gone, that's like Rue's best friend, like one of them. So that might have a play, a part to play.

This is very specific, but some of the things that the show is able to do, speaking back to how on the nose some of the addiction stuff was, I think that episode, the fifth episode, Stand Still Like the Hummingbird, I thought that was Zendaya's peak moment. I thought that that was her Emmy moment and I had

Such a strong reaction to that episode. I'm sure you did too. But this journey through addiction where she is literally withdrawing from opiates over the course of a 55-minute television episode just hit me so close to home. It was really on the nose. And I think some of the little things that they do, like even the conversations between Ali and

and Rue's little sister, right? Like some of the ways where they actually like, let's take five minutes here and actually explore how the younger sibling is feeling in this addiction dynamic.

I don't think that can be written by somebody who has gone through that because I thought about that and I was like, wow, I can imagine my younger brother watching this right now. I'm so glad that they just gave five minutes to Ali having a conversation with the younger sister because that's not the type of stuff that...

other shows people think about. And I think it's, I think that's what makes it so good. And I, yeah, totally. I think that's why I lean on like the accuracy of what, what really happens in real life and what they're going to choose to like,

how they're going to choose to progress the story. For all we know, it's already written. I could see like ego or like Rue's ego getting like blown up and her getting like a chip on her shoulder and like lots of personality traits coming into play and her having to like change behavior. But like there's this whole thing of like, but I'm sober. What do you mean? I'm still a piece of shit. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah, I could see that too. I think they have something really good in Ali. I think we saw that on full display in that bottle episode. I think he's an incredible actor. And I think some of the best parts of Euphoria is Ali and Rue in a room together talking. So I'm really excited for that aspect of season three, hopefully.

Let's talk about Nate because I guess Nate has become this stand-in caricature for toxic masculinity where I kind of go back and forth with, are we supposed to hate this dude? Are we actually supposed to have sympathy for him? How do you like the way that they wrapped Nate's storyline and how do you kind of come to terms with that character? Because for me, I kind of go back and forth on him the most.

So funny you said the toxic masculinity thing because I just saw him on like a wheat paste for Hugo Boss and I'm like, did they know what they were signing up for? I'm not stoked with the way

his story ended because I hate him. I wish he went to back to the school to shoot it up a little bit. Like that's what I really thought he was going to do. I actually, my first prediction before the show even started. And I actually still think that's a very big possibility is I think Nate's going to kill himself. Um, eventually, um, I'd say that's like,

common enough typecast for people who are closeted and have a hard time reconciling like who they are, what's happened to them and like are acting out in these crazy ways. And so I think that's a possibility. I did think he was like in that car scene where he's like loading his revolver. I thought he was on his way back to the school. Um, me too. Yeah. That's like a common thing that happens these days too. But, um,

i mean the fact that he pulled up on his dad and like got him arrested is actually like

I don't know, probably a mature way to go about it if you're going to seek revenge, if I'm being honest. I think he's just as bad of a person, maybe, but he is protecting, I don't know, his future, doing the business and stuff. And I don't know. We hate Nate because of how he treats everyone around him and how compartmentalized and disjointed his sense of morality is.

And it's askew to, or it's juxtaposed to his own perception of himself. He clearly thinks he's better than everyone. And I think he's meant to be this character that summarizes everything we hate in people. He's like the popular tall, light guy at school, you know? Exactly. Yeah, I think they're testing us a lot with this character. And I think they kind of...

go back and forth with it where, you know, there are parts of Nate that I think we are supposed to have sympathy for. I think, um,

him talking with his dad in that final scene where he talks about that dream that he has about where he is one of the girls or one of the people and he's getting fucked by his dad. Yeah, I thought that it actually happened in the episode prior. I thought he got sexually abused. Me too. That was my reading on it too. Where I thought that he was...

that's what he was into. He's like into the person who he despises the most, but I guess that's still yet to be seen. But I guess it was just a dream. I think the main thing I take away from Nate's ending is that Jules thinks that she's the only one with a copy. Yeah. And now the police department has it. So yeah,

Yeah. And they're sitting on Nate's sexuality as a storyline. That was a big part of season one. I remember when Matty discovered all these dick pics on his phone. And then he met Jules on a different dating app. Something like that. So I think...

And then they also gave us Carlos that scene with Nate and Jules in the car where maybe at the end of this, like Nate and Jules are really the,

the people that are meant to be together. But at the same time, they also test us so much because they do so much with Nate that makes him kind of this reprehensible figure. And I think the vast majority of takes that I've heard is I think most people don't like Nate. I think actually the point of him having guns and doing this thing with... I thought...

I thought the scene that he went where he went to Maddie's room and played Russian roulette with her, that was like maybe my least favorite scene of the season. That was like the only time this season where I was like, okay, you lost me a little bit. I don't understand how this serves this character. I'm not sure I find it believable. But then the other side of it is, I think what Levinson is doing is he's saying, I really want to test this.

I really want to test how empathetic you are. I really want to test your compassion with a character that is this complex. It's manipulative. I think you wanted to display just how manipulative someone can be in a situation like that. And I don't know about the sympathy for Nate because...

Here's the thing. I truly believe that Apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I can easily see Nate getting back together with Maddie, them living an entire life only for Nate to like come out like his dad did pissing on his own house, you know, 40 years later. I think that, you know, like we're sitting on Nate's actuality because he's

people are sitting on their own sexuality all over. Yeah, because Nate is sitting on his sexuality. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know. I think there's a lot of cultural importance to what happens with that character also, I would say. I would agree with that. And I think just to transition quickly to Lexi, I think...

the way that they were able to, the way that she kind of was able to break him with that scene in the play, in the penultimate episode, which I thought was so well done. Like, I thought that was finally, you know, somebody doing something that maybe Maddie or Cassie at the moment didn't really have the ability to do, which is to get him to maybe take a look in the mirror a little bit. And I think...

In my opinion, Lexi in many ways was kind of the MVP of the season. I think maybe they wanted to make up a little bit for how she got back-burnered in season one and give her kind of this prominent figure. But I think a lot was in play with the Lexi character in the way that I think she was autobiographical in a way as well. That's what I was just about to say. And I think they did a really good job with...

with her kind of as the season wrapped up. So what are your kind of closing thoughts on Lexi as we move into season three? I always resonated with Lexi because of that one line she said early on about being the observer. Yeah. And it's something that was like taught to me very early on, but I think it's arguably could be just as autobiographical as Rue was to Sam Levinson because she

She's essentially a director. I'm pleased with how that ends with her. I'm pleased how it ends with Rue and her having this, like, heartfelt moment with their own individual experiences while they were, like, because they both were there for each of them just in their own way. I think that last scene was amazing.

I don't know, again, healing for me. I think like the way they portray Nate and how he's broken by that is, it's tough to watch because you just know deep down that people are going through that. And yeah, maybe you're right about testing, testing the empathy part of it. It's so interesting. That's like the, the Nate is where I, I lose my ability to take a stance on it because I,

I don't have as much of a skin in the game with his story. Just, just, but I mean, we've all experienced, I want to hate him so much, but I'm sure someone out there like resonates with him so much that, you know,

they might change their behavior in real life. Yeah. And I, I do, I do think that, and I, I think obviously you could say that with every character, but Nate is maybe the most exaggerated in, in, in some ways with like the way that, uh,

you know, in part of this episode, you actually think for a second, oh, this guy's going to commit a school shooting or this guy's going to kill his dad or all of the people that were in Cal's like strange little party where they were just crushing Natty Lights, which is a whole other topic. But yeah, I think the spectrum with Nate in terms of

where this character can go, what this character is meant to do is, is on the wider side compared to the other characters. I want to talk about Cassie. Let's do it. Here's where I land. Here's where I land on Cassie. I think that, I think Sydney Sweeney is a star. I think that they gave her a lot to work with. I think her usage rate was, was maybe higher than I expected. Um,

I don't know what they were trying to accomplish with her other than maybe creating this parallel where

I think a lot of the show is about addiction to certain things and different things. And I think they wanted to create this parallel to show, Hey, you can't, it's not just about being addicted to drugs. Look how somebody can be overcome with love and be to relationships. And I think they did a really interesting job in examining that with Cassie and season two. I think that it's not just that it's like,

She is a type of person. She's like a, she's many types of person from like season one to, you know, into season two. I'm thinking about like the first relationship and like, just, I think it's important to recognize also that her story is essentially the same as Lexi's.

She went through the same thing. So it's again, the overarching theme of like, look how these like events, normal life events can drive people to be in it. And I, for one, hope that

A lot of people will see Cassie's experience and, like, have the secondhand embarrassment and, like, basically do everything they can to not be her, which I think is healthy for society itself. But, yeah, there's, like, materialism. There's, like, this shallow level and there's this, like, sense of...

lack of self-awareness that I think they're bringing in to, into play. I could see Cassie having like a really major comeback as like a redemption arc next season. Or I could also see her killing herself also.

Yeah, I think it can go both ways, right? I think it was interesting to see in the finale how the way they kind of closed with Maddie and Cassie was Maddie saying, oh, you're just getting started with Nate. And so I do think maybe there is a redemptive storyline possibility where- Do you think that's what that's what she was saying?

I think that Maddie was saying to Cassie, get ready for the entire Nate experience. It's going to have its ups and downs. I guess you're right about that. I also thought she was like, we're enemies now.

Get ready. Oh, it's just getting started? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's probably both. Yeah. I think it's interesting that you can... It's foreshadowing. Yeah. Yeah. You can interpret it in two separate ways. And I think there is a...

where in season three, the storyline with Cassie is very redemptive and it turns into an empowerment thing and it turns into her realizing that she doesn't need somebody like Nate to feel happiness. We will see. Because Nate's still going to go for both of them. He's going to go for Maddie and he's going to go for Cassie at the same time. And maybe Jules.

I don't know. I don't know if he's ready for to like publicly or just even like personally like pursue that. Yeah. We don't even know Jules is the type of person to like move schools, you know, because, because, because we didn't say I love you too. Like the people exist like that. Like, and this is so fucking crazy, but yeah. Like with Cassie particularly, I think like she's the most wild card. I think,

I've seen it. I've seen people like her my whole life and I've seen the result. It resulted in so many different things. Like I would not be like an ounce surprised with like Nate stays broken up with Cassie. Cassie met some other dude. They get pregnant. Cassie just keeps the baby and now she's just a mom. Did you see the, um,

Yeah, there's some weird parallels to there with Nate's mom and Nate's backstory where you could maybe see the dichotomy there or at least a situation where

Nate gets someone pregnant because I think so much of Cal's storyline was how that completely changed the course of his life. And I think they are in many ways trying to meditate that relationship between Cal and Nate, not to get something's going to happen. Something's going to happen to Nate. Cause I don't, you don't put your father in jail without hating yourself for the rest of your life. And what that, what that results in is, um,

Acting out towards Cassie or Maddie, acting out towards his mother, acting out towards his brother, killing himself. I don't know. Killing Jules because he's like, oh, you know, maybe he turns into like a staunch, like anti-LGBTQ person and just decides to kill Jules. You know, there's so many possibilities. But the way the crossover of the chaos between Cassie and Nate is left is like where I think

I mean, they have the easiest opportunity to do something unexpected. Well, they're also sitting on this giant smoking gun with Nate's younger brother, where this is kind of a fan theory, but I guess it makes sense, is...

Apparently there's a picture that is shown of a family portrait and there's three children there. Oh yeah. And the dad, and that is also the picture that the dad. Didn't they say ashtray? Many people have thought that this is ashtray. Many people have thought that it is ashtray. I thought that they were maybe, I thought that that final confrontation between Nate and his dad, I don't know, like if,

If the younger brother died and they've had a lot of opportunities to wrap this up and maybe it just turns into nothing, but they have that there where they intentionally show, and you can go back and look at it too, like even in season one, they show this family portrait. They show it multiple times. And for some reason, it's the family portrait that Cal picks up and grabs on his way out. And there's another brother in it.

Yeah, I wonder what's going to happen with that. I hope that whoever it is comes to light and they're openly gay. Yeah. I hope that happens. That would be cool. Let's wrap up with Maddie. Actually, Maddie and then Kat real quick too. I thought that the meal... Who's the...

Minka Kelly, Minka Kelly, Friday Night Lights. I thought that bringing her in as a way to show Maddie, I guess, maybe who she wanted to be. I thought that was cool. I thought that was interesting. I think Minka Kelly's great. I thought...

One thing that was cool about that whole relationship is you start to see there's a camera in the closet. So that character knows...

That Maddie is trying on all of her clothes and yet they're able to form this relationship together. And I thought that was a really cool thing to do this season. But as far as Maddie goes out again, she was another character that it seemed like her usage rate just got a little bit lower as the season went on.

I don't know if you're supposed to resonate with someone who's like popular and pretty and stuff because like no one actually feels the way Maddie is. Even people who are popular and pretty don't when they're that age, you know, like we're all have, we have a thread of innocence that I think Maddie is like,

If I'm being honest, then she's humanized a little by being betrayed by Cassie, I think. But I think the way, as much usage as she got was pretty appropriate just for her character. I think that, again, they're leaving a lot of room to like build on everyone. Yeah, and they kind of,

They made her a lot more likable in this season. I think when you contrast her relationship with Cassie, I don't think anyone is going to walk away from that being like, Team Cassie, Cassie's completely in the right here. So I'm kind of curious to see. I think maybe they started to go down. If we don't see this kind of empowerment thing with Cassie, maybe we start to see this...

thing with Maddie where she like moves to New York and it's just like, fuck this place. Um, I could, I could kind of see that with Maddie, the way she's going, because I think they did a really good job of like kind of propping her up and making her, uh,

kind of a boss in this season, I guess, just in contrast with how the other characters were kind of falling apart. It felt like Maddie was one of the cooler heads as the season progressed. So I think it could go in a couple of directions. I agree. And yeah, I just think that I would like to see like the humor, human element of Maddie. You get to see that she's like, you know, doing stuff she's not supposed to be doing and like, she's having questionable moments, but yeah, I'm curious to see, um,

how her care, how her like, uh, where is her innocence? Cause that's a theme in everyone's story throughout the show. Um, so. Yeah. And I think it's,

What happened to her? Who hurt her? Yeah. Yeah. Nate. Yeah, obviously Nate. Well, we got a little bit about her parents, the backstory of her parents fighting a ton and her living with Cassie and that's how they became so close. But they haven't really developed that one, so maybe there's some more meat on that bone.

Cat is the final one that I want to touch on. Did you see this Daily Beast report of there were creative differences, I guess, between...

cat's character the actress is barbie ferreira and i guess she was like storming off set and stuff like that and i think maybe the reason why she got backburnered in this season a little bit is because maybe she didn't like the way her character was going and if you read that report it also kind of does explain why maybe there are some plot holes in euphoria because i i guess there was like

some drama during the shooting and they shot a ton of stuff and they had to change a bunch of stuff and they didn't use a bunch of stuff. I even heard a rumor that there was supposed to be a, like a love triangle between Jules and Nate and they completely scrapped that because Hunter Schaefer and Jacob already were having issues with that. So I'm curious as to,

what's going on with Kat? Does she rebound? Do they just kill her off the show? I don't know if they kill her off the show, but that's, I mean, it's a reality of production. Like you have this much talent on set, then there's going to be issues a hundred percent and there's going to have to be shifts made. Um, I would have, I, at least we got to see her like,

Gaslight someone by saying they were gaslighting them. I think that's like incredible because I personally like have seen it happen so many times and I'm like, damn, the first person to say gaslighting is probably the person who's actually gaslighting. That's wild. And they fucking, they put it out there. I think that was like a great thing to do. I, I,

I feel bad because I feel like a lot of people resonate with her story. So I'm hopeful that they bring back her arc and give her a little bit of center stage on how she continues to develop. But

She's a niche subculture girl who has a secret life. I think that's where that goes. With the fanfic and the Reddit culture of it all. Do you even remember that little thing they did earlier in the season where all those influencers... Yeah. I thought it was brilliant. It was great. It was great. That's actually...

Right after I saw that, that was when I stopped watching because I was like, this is such a departure. But I went back and watched it and I really do like it. I think like she has a unique approach to like the high school experience because she looks different than everyone else. And because she's like on her own shit that like no one else is really involved in. So I hope I hope there's recovery there for her character and her role. But yeah.

Like, I wonder if Jules will even be a special episode. And like, what if it was Kat special episode? What if it was a Maddie special episode? I would be down, you know?

I'll be down for, yeah. I mean, they could, I mean, fat, like there's, there's a bunch of, there's a bunch of ways that they can go in, uh, in season three, I guess we'll wrap up there, man, real quick before we get out of here, letter grade review on season two. From what standpoint? Like, like a simple, like filmmaking standpoint or like. Whatever feels authentic to your experience, whatever you, uh,

I can't just give it a letter grade. I'd say that from a writing standpoint and filmmaking in all, writing, art direction, cinematography, nine and a half for its wild risk-taking and just non-conventional approach to what it means to make a film that is modern in a way that

I think like many of the vignettes and ways they use the camera and the way they use like, so wedding and like, uh, movement will be referenced for gender for decades, maybe two or three decades to come, you know, from a story standpoint, I, I don't know if I can rate it. I don't know if I can rate it a personal rating for me.

I've never felt more seen or acknowledged my experience with the death of my father, my own struggles with addiction, and the confusion of going through that. And to me, it's not about a letter grade. Me being able to know or watch it and relive my experiences, essentially, in a cathartic way with an objective view on anything, that is quite literally priceless to me.

Because I'm very far removed from like a lifestyle that defined me at one point. And so that's what I give it, you know.

Very fair. All right, brother. That was an absolute blast. I think my listeners that stuck around for this will really enjoy it and we'll have to do it again for season three. Do you have anything you want to plug before we get out of here? Any cool Apple products that you want my listeners to know about? Anything you're working on that you want to plug? I don't know.

I do not think I can do any of that, but I hope there's a, I would plug the fact that I would love to see Euphoria have like more Asian and African-American representation in like the next seasons, because I think like that would be like the cherry on top for a lot of people.

Yeah, and they kind of just let McKay go, which was a little strange to me. I guess he went to college, which is the natural way that you say we're done with a character. But yeah, that was interesting to me too, how they kind of just dropped him. You can't make everyone happy. So I'm not hurt about it, but I'm just saying if I'm plugging anything, that's what I'm like, let's see it. I'd love to see like,

The same way Shang-Chi put an Asian person at the front of a movie, of a feature, I would love to see an Asian person have a moment on this show because it is so cultural. And they've done a pretty good job with being able to

add characters like i think the way that they added elliot this season um was really artful and it really made sense for all the other characters involved so yeah i definitely think that there is a possibility to like go in a bunch of different directions in season three it was good to see you man thanks so much for doing yeah you too

All right, that will do it. Special thanks to Tom Jacobs. Special thanks to Carlos Estrada. You can find me on Twitter at ADP Wax Sports. Please continue to help support the show. If you can rate and review on Apple Podcasts, it really helps more than you know. And you can find me this week on The Scramble, Tuesday and Friday at 12 p.m. Eastern. Odds check our articles Tuesdays and Fridays. And we will be back next week with a big one for the players and a couple of big announcements that week as well. Cheers.

If I ventured in the slipstream Between the viaducts of your dream Where mobile steel rims crack And the ditch and the back road stop

Drinking and driving is a decision that could change your whole world. Things will never be the same if you ever get a DUI. Because legal fees and time in court are just the beginning. Getting into a crash is another way that your world can be turned upside down. Your vehicle may not be the only thing that gets damaged in that crash. You can face a life altering injury or

or even death. But you're not the only one that can face those consequences. Your decision to drink and drive can permanently impact not just your world, but someone else's world as well. Whether you injure them or leave their loved ones grieving. The next time you're out drinking, call a ride share, a taxi, a sober friend,

or a designated sober driver. The only decision that will change your world for the better is the decision to call for a sober ride. Drive sober or get pulled over. Paid for by NHTSA.