The party girl of our dreams, Clara Bow
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Welcome back to Write Answers Mostly, a podcast on what you didn't learn in history class, but you really wanted to. I'm Claire Donald. And I'm Tess Palomo. Guys, we are back in studio, just the two of us. We can make it if we try. Just the two of us. It's been so long. Yeah.

Thank you so much for sticking with us through guest episodes, but it's not like it was torture because we had Jake Shane. Come on. Yeah, we got Jake Shane. We talked about MILFs. We got an iconic 90s queen. Yeah, I mean, it's been living good over here. Yeah, but I know you guys sometimes miss when it's just us, and we always cater to that, so we're aware. Yes. So we're going to have two more episodes after this that are just going to be us. Three. No, two more episodes. Two.

Don't lie to them, Claire. They get mad. I'm so sorry. False promises. Before just a little bit of a break, your girl's got to go on vacation. She's traveling. She's traveling. But if you are missing us, it's not going to be a long summer break. Don't you worry. No, it never is. We do need to rest. We will have two bonus episodes plus a whole catalog of bonus episodes on our premium channel, which is in our show notes.

Yes. And that's where shit goes down. Exactly. So you can't complain unless you get on premium. Exactly. Because there's a whole new world for you babies there. Yeah. It's personal gossip. It's celebrity gossip. Last week, we covered the Met Gala of our favorite looks live. We were live reporters. We were live. We also had some juicy little conversations in there. Yeah, we did of ex-lovers. That Claire wants to bring an ex on the show. I do want to bring an ex.

on the show. I was shook, but I was supportive. I'm still going to pursue that dream, I think. Did you? No, I haven't DM'd them. They are a person in the public eye, so I'll do that. I was really enjoying the memes from their look, too. I was as well, because it's just good. Yeah, and so if you're wondering what we're talking about, it's on premium, babe. Go for it, kids. You know where to go. That's right. You know what to do. But I'm so glad that we're back with just the two of us and being cozy. We've had

big weekends, Tess. I feel like I'm still recovering, but this is 33 kids. You don't bounce back like you used to. Yeah, we had Tess's birthday party, which was honestly one of the best birthday parties I've ever been to in my time. I think I had more fun at that party than you did. I think you did, but I think it's just one of those things with hosting where you're just a little, it's hard to be fully, but I wanted that forever. What made me happy was seeing everyone just be like, what's the word? In...

In bliss. Uninhibited. Uninhibited. There we go. And that we were. And that we were. So I love seeing my babies just dance in the moonlight. It just is a reflection of you. You are just such a great host. It was such a great party. We did a silent disco. Guys, silent disco is...

Just the best. It's been two weekends in a row because last weekend we went to the desert and celebrated our girl Lauren who is getting married this summer. In Italia. In Italia. And then so we went to the desert to do a little batch trip and it was so much fun. It was the perfect bachelorette weekend. We had some Rammys on Saturday.

The bachelorette trip. That was our egos. Yeah, our egos were... We needed it, though. We always do. We always do. If you are listening right now and you want to boost our ego, just send us a little DM at RightAnswers, mostly on Instagram and TikTok. Yeah, please. We love hearing from you guys. We really do. Yeah, it's been some busy weekends. It's been a lot of fun. It's been a lot of partying. And I'm excited just to kind of also...

Take a moment. Take a breath. Just chill for even though this weekend's also not calm, but we're getting there. Tourist season is just so wild. It's always intense. Yeah, but it's so luxurious. I love it. Oh, I got it. And we have fun things ahead in May. We're seeing Sarah McLachlan at the end of May. At the Bowl, baby. She tweeted about us, guys. She did? It was crazy. She said our names. It was like, see you at the Bowl. We're like, you got that right, Sarah. And we're going to go backstage to meet her if you guys didn't listen to the Sarah McLachlan episode. So it's just been a, what a treat this year has been. What a treat.

damn treat. Oh, okay. We will get into the subject, but just real quick, to officially announce, we talked about it on Premium, we mentioned it on Jake's Show the Ring test. Oh, I

She's engaged. And we do all of Tess's story, her engagement story on Premium. It was so sweet for Claire to put that together. But yes, I'm an engaged woman, honey. I cleaned the ring last night, so she's sparkling. If you're watching on YouTube, put those sunglasses on because, my God, I'm being blinded by it. We do. We do love it. He did good. He really did. Way to go, Kunal. Tess, today is a highly requested subject. You look great.

I haven't made it really past that. I was like, was that the right note that I was hitting? Yeah, no, we always hit that. Yeah, that's true. This is also scary. You Swifties wrote in immediately when Tortured Poets Department dropped and were like, cover Clara Bow. And we always listen. We do. So Tess, what do you know about Clara Bow?

So at one point in my life, I was like researching her for like literally two seconds. When? When I was doing research of where the cool girl came from. Oh, yes. Yes. And I remember just her –

From probably like Wikipedia or something, you know, back in the day of just something about her being like the original cool girl and kind of like Hollywood manufacturing her to appear very like hot to men. You got that right. Okay. And that's all I know. She knows it. But I know nothing else. I know what she looks like. Okay.

And yeah, I know that she was just like the cool chick. Our Cleopatra episode is titled, Was Cleopatra the First It Girl? Technically, Clara Bow was the official first. Wow. This is what we always do for everyone, the first influencer. Do you remember when we used to say that on every episode? We were like, Martha Stewart was the first influencer. Elizabeth Taylor, first influencer. Exactly. But we love the legacies. Clara Bow might be the first influencer. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. We love the legacies. And Margot Robbie? Correct. Played her. Margot Robbie's character was based off of her in Babylon. Wow. What a movie that was. The first hour and a half of Babylon. Amazing. The last hour and a half of Babylon. Trash. It was not good. But Margot Robbie was incredible. Wrap it up, people. But yeah. I mean, she... And I liked that character because it was interesting because she was very like manipulated by everyone and beautiful.

Beautiful and talented, but like more than that. And God, haven't we seen that story already on Ram before? Well, listen to our old Hollywood episode to get like all of that too, because we do talk about that. Yes. Judy Garland and Elizabeth Taylor, Natalie Wood, all these women. That was a good season for us. Yeah, it really was. But...

Yes, Taylor has a song about Clara Bow, so we are giving you the rundown on who exactly Clara Bow was. So to start off my citations, we have our stepfather, Wikipedia, obviously, a YouTube documentary called Discovering the It Girl. YouTube was our annoying little brother. Yep. And the original Photo Play magazine articles. So Photo Play was like one of the first gossip magazines, so we honor you for being a pioneer. Love.

Because we love the gossip magazines. And lastly, our Nana PBS, an article. Thank God she's here with us today. We needed her comfort. Nana land.

Okay, so Clara Bow. A quote by F. Scott Fitzgerald to start. The girl was the real thing. Someone to stir every pulse in the nation. F. Scott Fitzgerald. Which I would actually like to do an episode on him. Fascinating. And his wife. I think that would be really interesting. Oh, yeah. You should do it. Well, put it on the list. Would love. So she was Hollywood's first sex symbol. She was the official first it girl. So who was Clara Bow? Clara Gordon Bow. Can you guess her sign? No.

Is it what would like, were you shocked by it? Were you like, yeah, she Leo. She's always feels so good. The nerves, the nerves. I know literally she was born on July 29th, 1905 and prospect Heights, Brooklyn in a, um, this is how it was described. A bleak sparsely furnished room above a dilapidated Baptist church.

You know who at the we've all lived in a place like that. I'm looking right now for an apartment and that is probably going to be my description of my place too. So we'll see. Just looking for a dilapidated Baptist church to live above. That's all a girl really needs. It's true. What else? She does an interview for Photo Play, which is where I got a lot of my information when she's 22 years old and she opens it by saying this.

When I write down at the very beginning that I'm 22 years old, I can hardly believe it. I feel much older than that. I feel as though I lived a long, long time. That is because I have suffered so much. And suffering makes you feel old inside, just as happiness makes you feel young even when your hair is white. End quote. So buckle up, buttercups, for this ride. Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. She was her parents' third child. She had two older sisters, but both sisters died in infancy. Wow.

Really tough. Her mom was told by a doctor not to become pregnant again for fear that the next baby might die as well. And despite the warning, her mom does become pregnant again with Clara in late 1904. And this is something that her mom didn't want because, I mean... Well, I'd be terrified. She has gone through trauma. Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah, I think Clara grew up in extreme poverty and they didn't have birth control back then. And, you know, they didn't have all the resources. So her mom has an extremely risky pregnancy. And on top of that, there was an extreme heat wave in New York in July, in July 1905. And temperatures peaked at 100 degrees. And there was no AC back then. So people would just like die when it was too hot. Like literally. They didn't even have like –

I guess they had ice boxes. Like they didn't even really have fridges or anything. Oh my God. Yeah. So this is what this woman is giving birth in. And during the birth, they thought that they lost both Clara and her mother. Clara said, quote, I don't suppose two people ever look death in the face more clearly than my mother and I, the morning I was born. We were both given up, but somehow we struggled back to life.

You know that I don't understand how people give birth before like the 80s. I mean, honestly, just like how people can give birth, period. Period. And then before there was like drugs and... I can't imagine. Bless these women. Bless all women. Bless these women. Bless all women. So that is the conditions in which Clara came into the world. She wasn't like considered a...

pretty child and like she was self-described as that way. She said that her eyes were too black and her hair was too red, but she was sturdy and healthy. But people always thought she was a little boy when she...

Oh, she's a redhead? She was a redhead. Her whole life? She ended up dyeing her hair with henna, which we will see later, but she was a natural redhead. Well, you know, redheads have always just been victims of bullying. Ain't that the truth. And, you know, from my personal life, I champion you redheads. Yes, we love a redhead.

We love a redhead. So, and honestly, the first It Girl was a redhead. Exactly. So you guys think about that if you've been insecure about your hair. That's right. You think about that. So she was very much a tomboy. She grew up outside, which of course the It Girl was a tomboy. She played with the boys. She never had any dolls. She beat the boys in all the races and in baseball. And she said that she just never had any use for girls in their games. Yeah.

But also, which is like always hard when you hear a woman be like, I just don't get along with other women. Is that how she is like forever? No. Okay. That's not how she is forever. That makes me feel like already protective and like not liking her. Yes. No, she evolves. But, and also to be fair, these girls were like really nasty to her growing up because she was poor. Oh yeah. So of course she put a wall up. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Yeah. Like they, girls made fun of her for her clothes and they called her carrot top.

Come up with something more like unique. It's just also crazy that that phrase goes back so far. God, it really does. There's some things I just never. Speaking of hot redheads, I saw Sean White the other day and he's looking really good. Claire was feeling it. Just a side note. Claire.

Claire's feeling it. I was. He's had a glow up. He really has. We were Googling old images and my God. He needed the haircut. He did. We can all say it. You're not ugly. You're just poor people. Exactly. Okay. So Claire's dad worked a lot and her mom suffered from extreme mental illness. She was very depressed and she was diagnosed schizophrenic, which was just very hard and lonely for Claire as little girls. So her mom, her dad's gone all the time. Her mom's suffering through this.

And also when Clara's mom was 16, she fell from a second story window and suffered a severe head injury. It's like Katie from Vanderpump Rules when she fell through the skylight. She was later diagnosed with psychosis due to epilepsy. So from the start, Clara had to learn how to take care of her mom during the seizures. And Clara was like, as a kid, I took care of my mom. My mom didn't take care of me. I wonder how she fell. Yeah.

that's a great question accidental fall I didn't find any foul play yeah I just feel like things were so dangerous that's true nothing was like nothing was safe there were no protocols so as she goes into her teenage years her mom's like all right we need to like sprucing you up a little bit she all of a sudden was like I want to make you more girly so she starts like doing her hair and like sewing dresses for her and then all of a

sudden the boys start treating her a little different. It's the classic take off the glasses, put your hair down and then it's oh, you're rather pretty. You're rather pretty. And you know what? That's hard for a girl who was a tomboy whose only friends were boys and now all of a sudden they want to be more than just friends. And then you feel like lonely because you're like who do I have that's not trying to fuck me? That is literally how she felt, Tess. She was like no matter how much I wanted to be a tomboy the boys wouldn't let me.

No. You can't do anything right when you're a young woman, can you? You really can't. Or when you're an old woman. Or when you're just a woman. A woman. Just a woman. Be kind to us. Please. So she becomes an outcast at school. And where do you think she goes for an escape? The theater. The movies.

That's exactly right, Tess. We've also seen this before. Oh, we love it. For the first time in her life, she was like, I see beauty in the world. I see distant lands and lovely homes and romance and glamour. So she didn't have any money and her family didn't, but she would save every penny she could just to go to the movies. I know. Back when it was like 10 cents a pop. It was a nickel. Oh, a nickel. That's right. A nickelodeon. That's right. So at 16, she knew that's what she wanted to do with her life was be a movie star.

And one day she sees an announcement in the paper for this annual nationwide acting contest called Fame and Fortune. And this is the fall of 1921. So she tells her dad about it and he lends her 50 cents, which was a big deal for him at the time. That was actually like a lot of money. And it allowed her to go get two pictures taken.

I know. Like headshots. Like headshots. Oh, God. The money I've wasted on the – literally. The money my mom has helped me waste. Yeah, your mom just listening to you like, crack that. Love you, Cindy. We'll get them someday. How much were they back in the day when you – like do you remember?

They've always been so expensive. Like $300, $500. At least. I think $400 is like a deal these days, which is just crazy. Yeah. Just you can take it on your iPhone. Yes. That's what we should do now. If there's any actors listening, like you literally can. Yeah. Make your own way. Truly. But so she goes and gets some headshots taken and she sends it into the magazine's office. And surprise, they call her and they're like, come in for an audition.

So she goes into the office and she's just like so nervous because there's so many beautiful girls there sitting in the waiting room. And they're in like really nice clothes. And she was like – it was at that moment that I realized like, oh, I'm not like everyone here anymore.

And then the door opens to the casting office and some men and women walk around the room and they're just like eyeing everybody over. And then suddenly one of the men said, there's an interesting face, that kid with the red tam and the gorgeous eyes. And then Clara like looks around. She's like, I'm the only one with red hair. Have you ever heard anyone call hair tam? Never. Never.

But you learn something new here every day. Never have, Claire. So they call in Clara with some other girls. And she's like, okay, I can't let them know that I've actually never acted before in my life. And I don't really know what I'm doing. However, when Claire would go to the movies, she said that she would study every, like, movement the actors made. And she said she was also like, but I always thought, you know, I would do that a little different. Wow. Is this your origin story? Yeah.

Just a small town girl going to LA and just making it big. Claire sees Clara. Wow. Also, what a gorgeous name. Clara. Do you think every Swiftie is going to name their daughter Clara now? Clara Bow. Oh my God, you know they will. I feel like there's going to be a huge...

I think that there's going to be a resurgence. The power of that woman. I'm like, would I name my daughter Clara? Clara is a beautiful name. It is so stunning. I know some good Claras in my life, too. Yes, we do. So they do, the first they do a screen test. And the screen test was this. You walk in, you pick up a telephone, laugh, look worried, and then terrified. Because this is the silent film era. It's all in the face. It's in the emotion. Yes. It has to be full. Which is sometimes the hardest acting. Yeah.

Some might say, if you're looking on YouTube right now, our hand motions. Some might say, I agree, Tess. It's just like so crazy. I don't know. Just thinking about the silent film era is wild. It is. And this was the audition process. Wow. So she actually keeps getting callbacks. So she would skip school. She was like, I really don't care about school. Because she's like, if this doesn't work out for me, something else will work out for me. Yeah. So she skipped school to be going to these callbacks. Her mom doesn't know this.

And then in the contest's final screen test, Clara went up against, like, an already really experienced actress. She was blonde. She was gorgeous. But someone on the crew who was watching the auditions later stated that when Clara did the scene, she actually became the character and lived it. Mm.

Which there are actors who can do that. Yeah, they're just, they're in it. They're in it from the start. They're in it and they totally transform. And guess what? Clara wins the contest. Wow. Yes. Look at our girl go.

So when Clara goes back home, she sees her mom sitting there and her mom does not look well. The teacher had gotten a hold of her mom and had told her that she had been missing all the school. And so Clara's mom was like, wait, what are you doing? You're acting now. So when Clara tells her what she's been up to, you know what her mom's reaction was? Quote, you're going you are going straight to hell. I would rather see you dead.

God, we have just seen this in so many stories of like when our girlies are saying they want to act and then people are like, slut. Yes. Like it's just so crazy. Death threats. Yes. Let our girlies live. Yeah, because it really used to be associated with like bottom of the barrel like profession. It was like trash, trash, trash, not for us. Yeah. Yeah. So –

Her mom's not on board. But from this contest, Clara won an evening gown, a silver trophy, and she was promised a role in a movie. Yeah, well, we've all been promised a role in a movie. Haven't we, though? Yeah. And that's exactly what happened to her. Like, nothing happened for weeks. And Clara's dad phrased it as, you need to go haunt that office.

Which I love that advice. I actually love that advice. Yeah. So she does. She like goes and hangs around the office until they give her something and it works. So she was introduced to director Christy Cabone who cast her in Beyond the Rainbow. And she gets to set. It's her first day. It's a female director? Christy? Yeah.

So I actually think it's a male director because I just saw Christy too, but it's a male. Oh, okay. I was like, wow. I know. I wish. But her first day on set was a little tough for her because she goes into the dressing room. There's like four other actresses in there and they're all doing their makeup and Claire has never put on makeup before. She's also 16 or 17 and she was like, well, one of y'all like put it on for me and they were all like, we had to learn this on our own. You need to also. Yeah.

Yeah. Ladies. Ladies. Let's not do that. No. Pave the way and help guide them there. So Clara does. And she walks out on set and the director was like, holy shit, you look like a clown. Oh my God. That is so sad. Which we've all also been there. We have. We remember middle school foundation and kicking it on. Yeah. It's really bad. So she goes, that was tough first day. And then she comes back on set the next day and she just starts watching the actresses put on their makeup and she gets it better. Yeah.

So we are in the clear. She's an observant queen. She is, which I really appreciate. So she had five scenes in this film, but where she really shined is when she had to cry. She was a pro at crying on command, which do you remember from Babylon? Yes. She could literally, it was like one, two, three, and she would just have tears streaming down her face. Yes. And it can also do like one, Margot Robbie can also do this with one single tear coming out of which she's like, pick an eye. How can you do that? I don't.

No. It's so hard to do that. I freeze. I think most actors, if they read a script and it says to cry, you're like, well, I'm never going to be able to cry in my life. I'm just going to drop out of this. Exactly. I'm just going to call it in. Yeah. Well, Clara said, it was always easy for me to cry. All I had to do was think of home. Yeah.

So I know. Oh, my God. Also, her lines are so just like old Hollywood starlet. Yeah. She's dramatic. She is, which we love. The director was so impressed. So the movie, it's her first movie, and it releases in Brooklyn where she lives. She's 17 years old. She's pumped, so pumped that she asked some of the girls from school to like come see this movie. She can finally like shine and show off. So they all go to the movies. Tess?

They had cut every single one of her scenes from the movie. Which is like every actor's biggest fear. And all these girls are going to be like mean to her because they've already been bullies. They're literally going to be like, you made all of that up. This is every, has that ever happened to you with anything? I,

I'm trying to think if that has. I don't think so. But my roles are so small that I am always shocked when they make it in. Yeah. I worked with someone once who was going to be in a very big movie. And she was talking about it. And she was getting ready for the premiere. Like, I was like, have fun tonight. And then the next day she came in and she was just, like, crying. I was like, what happened? She's like, I wasn't in anything. It's awful. Like, if you guys don't know, they can literally do that. Like, you still get paid for it, which is great. But, like...

I mean as an actor I think a lot of times people are like I'd rather not get paid and be in it. She even she played the girlfriend of the main character in it and they were just like this story doesn't like

serve the movie anymore so we're going to take it out entirely. It's like why you can't ever talk about it until it is like released. It's not easy life is it? No it's really not. So it's just not a great time for Claire in general. She's obviously devastated and her mom's mental health is just getting worse and worse. Her mom goes up to her one day on the back porch when she was doing some laundry and she said quote I think I'll kill you. You'd be much better off dead. This is a terrible world. Motion pictures are terrible. I think it's my duty to kill you.

So she's really suffering. She's really suffering. And Clara said she felt bad for her mom more than anything, which is also like, how do you get there? I mean, it's your mom. I know. I mean, I feel sad for the mom, just like the world is not supporting her and she's been through so much and she has no outlet. Yes, exactly. And I think she sees her daughter is like going to get lost in this

thing now. Oh, yeah. I mean, she's just so mentally unwell. It's really sad. So one night in February 1922, Clara actually awoke to a butcher knife held against her throat by her mother. Oh, my God. Talk about childhood trauma.

Clara was able to fend off the attack and lock her mom in a room somehow. And in the morning, her mom had no recollection of the event. And later, Clara's father committed her mom to a sanatorium. Oh, God. And those were not good back then. I mean, wasn't that like...

It's like when they tried to do, what's it called? Like, it starts with an L. Not a libido. A lobotomy. Lobotomy. What happened in a lobotomy? They like literally stick something up your nose and scramble your brain around. You guys have suggested doing Rosemary Kennedy. We will definitely cover the Kennedys at first. This happened to JFK's sister. That's right. And you go brain dead.

essentially. Oh my God. They also do like shock treatment and stuff. Is it like illegal now to do that? Yeah, I would think so. God, maybe not in some States. Yeah. Well, that's very true. It's just like, it's hard to be a woman with depression. Yeah. Cause it's just like, then you like either you're depressed or brain dead. Yeah. Great. Yeah.

Thank you. Literally, there are just no resources. Yeah. So Clara continues to pursue acting during this time. She gets in small roles and like some short films and stuff. But one day she was on set on January 5th, 1923, and her father shows up and tells her that her mom had passed away.

And Clara, so Clara's mom died at the age of 43 from epilepsy. And this was so hard, obviously, on Clara, but it was also this added layer because Clara was like, she didn't want me to act. And I was on set literally while she died. And the scene was like her dancing on a table in a little outfit. She's like, I was doing everything that my mom hated.

It must feel very complicated when your parent dies when you've had such a scary, abusive time with them. Yeah, I didn't even think about that. Yeah. So during the funeral, though, as they were lowering her mom's casket into the grave, Clara kind of had a break and jumps into the grave with her and starts screaming at everyone that they were all hypocrites and they hadn't loved or cared for her mother while she was alive. And now they're all acting like they do now.

This woman has gone through some shit before she's even 18. Oh, my God.

Oh my God. Yeah. It just must feel so confusing. Like then you also must like, cause you always feel a little protective of your parents, even if they're terrible to you. Like that's your mom. And like she somehow had the insight to be like, my mom's just suffering more than anything. That makes me very sad. So sad. And Claire just wanted to be done with acting forever after that, obviously. But her dad was like, you are too talented to give up on this. Her dad was always very supportive of it.

So she does keep pursuing it, but the industry was always telling her that she was too something. She was too old. She was too young. She was too fat. She got that a lot. Oh, my God. Here we go. Which is like something we don't see change. But eventually, the director, Elmer Clifton, needed a tomboy for his movie, Down in the Sea Ships. Right. Down to the Sea in Ships. Yeah. And he had seen Clara in a magazine, and he was like, bring her in.

So she ends up getting the part for $50 a week, which, calculator, would be about $780 a week today. Which for Clara? No.

Not bad. Also, for any actor, not bad. It's ultra low budget these days. Yeah. Or even more than that. We'll take it. Yeah, we will take it. So she's stoked. Wow. The movie premiered, and she was billed 10th in the film, but she shined through. There's no small park. Only small actors. Short kings and queens. Yeah.

That's so true. And the reviews were all like, Clara Bow stole the show. You're going to know about this girl. She's a star. Tomboy star. Tomboy. I mean, already. I wonder where tomboy comes from. History of tomboy? Yeah. Like, why Tom? Who is Tom? Like, Tom Sawyer? Tom Cat? Tom Sandoval? Scandival? It all goes back to Bravo. It's about Tom. It's about Tom. It's about Tom. I know.

Bravo Girlie Snow. So she had smaller roles in other films. She's hustling and she's not the typical leading lady because the leading lady there is like very, you know, innocent and virginal and like feminine. And here comes this like scrappy tomboy that is just like making a name for herself. And she said that she was like, I'm really going to carve out who I am and create my own niche and

Which really worked to her favor. Isn't this a lesson in, like, don't be like everyone else? It's interesting to be yourself? It's such a good lesson and, like, wow to have the intuition to do that from the beginning and, like, the confidence to do that. Because it is. It's, like, all about your essence. Like, that's what they're going to cast you on. Exactly. And you're just going to blend with everyone else if you're just trying to conform. So, like, that's all you can do. So she gets her first lead role as a tomboy. So it works in this movie called Grit.

And on this job, she meets her first boyfriend, who is a cameraman, Arthur Jacobson. Always hot when an actress gets with like a DP. Yes. Like Julia Roberts and her husband who've been together for like 30 years. He was a DP. He was a DP for that movie like in Mexico with Brad Pitt. Remember that one?

Like something about Mexico? No. Yeah, they met on that. I think that's like really hot. Oh, it's a love affair in Mexico. I mean, I think it's hot when any like lead star gets, unless it's a PA, sometimes that can be tricky. Sometimes that can be tricky. We're always sensitive to the power dynamic. Yes, exactly. But Margot Robbie, her husband is an AD, an assistant director. That's really cute. I think it's so cute too. And it's good because two actors together is not good.

It's a lot of ego happening. Yes. A lot of emotions. We love balance. We do. So she crushes the role in Grit. And then guess who calls? Hollywood. Hollywood. We are.

Same page. We're connected. Are we surprised? So this independent studio called Preferred Pictures signed Clara for a three-month trial contract. All travel was paid for. And she would also get $50 a week, which we know is $750 a week. We're staying a little low budget, but that's okay. Yeah, exactly. But she's still new. She's new to Hollywood game. Yeah. And we talk about in our old Hollywood episode, like how the studio systems worked because it was so...

so different back then. It's not good. It's not good. You're basically like trapped to a studio. And they don't like really care about you. No. And they will like change everything about you and you have to fit that mold. Yeah. I'm like druggy old. Yeah. And that's old Hollywood. It's so glamorous, isn't it? Yeah.

So on July 22nd, 1923, at 18 years old, she packs her bags. She leaves her dad and her boyfriend behind in New York, and she heads out west. Independent queen. That's right. The studio appointed writer agent Maxine Alton as her chaperone for the journey and to stay with her out in Hollywood. I didn't really go into more about their relationship, but Clara ended up hating her. I feel like it's never like a –

never someone that you like or that like supports you. Except for Britney Spears. Remember her chaperone? Oh, Vanessa or something. Something. And they became really close and I wish that they would have kept each other. I know. She was like the only person that was looking out for her. Check out her Britney Spears episode. So they get a little apartment on Hillview near Hollywood Boulevard and she just goes straight to work.

So Maytime was her first Hollywood movie. And before it was even done filming, they were like, Clara, you fucking rock. We're going to make you a lead in our next film. Damn. So she's already getting – she had the razz. Yeah. She always has. She was. She has. She was just so natural and emotionally full. And it lit up the screen. She was beating out all these other actresses that had so much more experience than her. But man, did they put her to work tests. In the next two years, Clara made 25 feature films. For still $50 a week? Yeah. Yeah.

We need a raise. We need a renegotiation. Yes. And not only that, she was so popular, but they exploited her like ruthlessly. She was the most overworked and underpaid actor in Hollywood. Preferred Pictures loaned Clara out to other producers because, you know, when you're with a studio, you have to stay with them, but you could be loaned out.

For sums ranging from $1,500 to $2,000 a week while only paying Clara $200 to $750 a week. So she is – like they are skimming her. And she's also like working 18-hour days.

Yeah, and there's no one to be like – she doesn't have a lawyer. There wasn't SAG back then. There was no union being like, hey, we can't overwork these people. When SAG was formed, did we talk about this? I don't know, actually. And it used to be like SAG or AFTRA, and then they came together. But thank God for the unions. I mean, truly. And for the rules. You got to eat. Yeah, but she was also – because you got to eat, she was just so happy to be working. Everything was new and wonderful to her.

She said she could just like buy a pair of stockings. And if it got a run in it, she didn't have to like cry over it. She's like, I'll just go buy another one. Oh, it's like when you come from like a very poor background. This must feel so glamorous. But then it's sad knowing that like they are taking advantage of her. Yeah. And I feel like you're almost like, well, I'm just lucky to have this. Exactly. I'm not going to say anything. She was just like happy that she could pay her gas bill. Yeah. Okay. We are going to take a quick break here, but we will be back because Clara's story is just getting started. Wow.

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Clara is working and hustling in Hollywood. Meanwhile, she's becoming a role model for the flapper generation. The flapper girlies are here. The flapper girlies are here and they are ready to party. This is in the 20s? This is in the 20s.

After receiving the right to vote only five years earlier in 1920s, we're in 1925, women now sought sexual revolution as well. Well, white women were allowed to vote. Yes. It's worth mentioning that. But they were like, let's get sexy as well. Oh, wow. What a time. Right? And no one embodies like this flapper, sexy woman more than Clara Bow. Yeah.

She brought this, like, new personality to the screen that had never been seen before. She was energetic. She was fresh and, quite frankly, sexy. She's sexy and she knows it. We like it. We do. In the movie My Lady of Whims, she plays an heiress that flees her stuffy family. And she jumps off to Greenwich Village and parties and takes several suitors. And people are like, we've never seen a character like this before.

And we love it. Her movie, The Plastic Age, pushed the sexual envelope even further. Audiences were used to leading ladies being these innocent, helpless, virginal types. And they were shocked and thrilled to see this bold character that Clara played. Here was a woman that not only knew about sex, but she showed that she liked it.

You need to see that on the screen. It had never been seen before. Like if a woman was like, she was being like swept off her feet or something like that. But in her movies, and it's so funny with silent films, you see actors talking, but you can't hear anything. And then there are lines like go on screen as the next slide. But she's basically like pursuing these men and like kiss me. I mean, that's how it should be. She's being flirty and we like it. We like it. Yeah. Go after what you want.

So she flipped the script in the 20s by showing bold women pursuing men. And when she signed her first contract with Paramount in 1926, she negotiated her Paramount contract to not have a morals clause, which was a big thing back in the day. Oh, so her characters could be like, I'll do anything. Not only her characters, she...

She could do anything. Go on. Right? Because the morals clause back in the day have a little excerpt actually from a morals, a 1921 Universal Studios clause. It reads as the following and all actors and actresses usually had to sign this.

Quote,

So it was not only the characters. They were like, you can't be caught doing anything bad. Imagine if we had a morals clause. This podcast would just blow up, like catch on fire. It would no longer be. It would no longer be at all. So it's like,

Public hatred. We can't see you. And also it's like the 20s. So it's like probably like you can't wear certain things. You can't say certain things. Damn. The 20s were so interesting because it was like such a revolution of like sexuality and partying and like, but it was still so conservative. Yeah. And it's like hard to remember that sometimes because of like Gatsby and.

Exactly. But it's almost like when things are changing, the old ways are resisting even further. And it becomes even more powerful. Exactly. Exactly. And I feel like up until recently, like...

It's been like that where it's like you can't say certain things. You can't like speak about who you're voting for. Like you have to be this perfect picture. I know. We like – you definitely – you see it go in waves. Yeah. I totally agree. Also, we did get a review the other day being like, I love this podcast so much, but could you please stop swearing? Oh, that's just not going to happen. And guys, it can't – like I said fuck like –

two seconds into the episode and then I like thought about that and I was like, but I can't change myself. I know. I'm so sorry if it offends you. I am sorry too. It just like comes out in conversation. And we mean that genuinely. It's just who we are. It would be unfair. It would be disingenuine. Exactly. But we are sorry. Yeah. And we're sending our love and light. Truly. Yeah. So thank God we don't sign a morality clause. So...

So she's living her life. And how can a girl help but fall in love with her co-star? We've all been there. That's right. There was a man, Gilbert Rowland. And Clara said, Gilbert was the first man I ever cared about. We were both kids. And we were engaged. And we were very happy. Not a bit insane.

not a bit in the modern flapper fashion, but rather like two youngsters that didn't know what it was all about. And we were scared to death of it. We used to just sit and look at each other, hardly breathing, not really knowing each other at all. Well, we're both stars now, but the rest of the dream has vanished. And like every girl, I look back on my first love with tender memories and maybe a tear, though I know it can never come again.

And this is why we say actors should not be together. It's too intense. It's just like, how do you get anything done? Where's the character start and where does it end? Have you ever fallen for a co-star? No, I never have. I feel like all my like coast, like my scenes, I'm always so uncomfortable. Never been attracted to anyone that you've had to like make out with. No. Yeah.

It's always a journey. But hey, the life is still young. Let's get me in there. That's true. Yeah. I want you to have like a little on-set romance. It'd be so fun. Yeah. But alas. But have you. Oh, yeah. Literally.

Literally, even in a short film, if I had a husband in it, I would just be obsessing over them. It's so hard not to fall. Yeah, it happened a lot. Gilbert Rowland loved about her is that not only she was sexy, she was also super sensitive. Like we said, she could really cry on command. And it's so interesting, in the silent film days, they would have a three-piece orchestra playing music to help the characters get into...

It was just so theater. Were they actually talking and saying lines? Yes, but there was no microphones or anything like that. It really was. You had to hit your mark and you could only do it a couple of times because everything was expensive. Exactly. Her song to get her to cry that she would request to the three-piece orchestra was Rockabye Baby.

No, that is so haunting and dark. What would yours be? Oh, I had one that always made me cry. There's a Lumineers song that really makes me cry. Oh, I did this in our audition with Tess once. Do you remember that I had to cry and I went and watched the Dumbo scene where his mom rocks him through the cages? She was like, give me five. I was like, I'll be out here.

I came back and I was like, let's go. What's your song that makes you cry? Oh my God. There's that like Warren Zet. What's his name? Warren Zet. Zady. Well, Warren. Warren Zevin something. Oh, Warren Zevin. Zevin. God, I cannot remember. It's like that song where he's like,

It's like shadows are falling and I'm running out of breath. I don't think I know that one. Oh, keep me in your arms for. Oh, my God. Oh, it's happening. It's I actually can't even think about it. Yeah, it would be that one. Yeah. Also, Mother by Casey Musgraves makes me cry every time. Also, are you strong enough to be my man? Oh, my God. I'm like.

Three-piece orchestra? Yeah. Are you strong enough to be my man? I couldn't even deal with it. No, me either. Well, for her, it was Rockabye Baby. And she also talked about a story that she would think about her friend Johnny, who was in her building. And there was a fire in her building. And he got caught in the fire. And then she found him. And he died in her arms. Yeah. So she said she would think about Johnny, too. And I'm sure Rockabye Baby, there was probably stuff with her mom, too.

Poor Clara. Also having to relive that. And it's like now don't people say like don't go so deep because it kind of brings you in more like to yourself. Don't some acting teachers say that? I hope some acting teachers say that because some acting teachers are so toxic and they are like, no, let's go there. I mean that can just be so traumatic to have to do that over and over again. Literally like on a Tuesday night in an acting class in the valley? No. For what? No. It's like you're sick. You're sick. You're sick.

But the crew member that they were interviewing in this documentary, he started crying, thinking about Clara crying because he was like, it was just so powerful and magnetic. Yeah.

So, her biggest break yet, though, while this is all happening, is a movie called The Man Trap. And it was directed by Victor Fleming, who also directed The Wizard of Oz and Gone with the Wind. My God, what a resume. Rich. Rich. They say it's Claire's best performance to date, and it led Paramount to quadruple her salary. It's about goddamn time. Which we love. But most of her money went to support her father.

Clara had supported her father since she was 16 and she continued to do so the rest of his life. Yeah. She also paid for like a lot of her like friends and stuff like that. That's really hot when people do that. I agree. I love it. It's really hot. So Victor Fleming, the director, treated her like an equal in the arts. Well, why?

Well, wow. What a concept. And what do you think happened? He took advantage of her sexually? No. She fell in love with him. Oh, okay. Well, yeah. I mean, I would too. Yeah. Who amongst us? How could you help it? No. It's like a lawyer. You know, anyone that's like... Anyone that helps you. Like, truly. This is why I'm in love with Tessa's brother. Hey, Adrienne. He, like, helps us get through everything in life. It's so true. So at this point, though, she's involved with both Victor and Gilbert Rowland. We like...

She deserves to have a little like – always three on the roster. That's right. What is it? It's like your – what did Allison say? Your 30, 60, and 90 guys? Yes. Someone that you need for like 30 minutes, 60 minutes, and 90 minutes. Oh, that's what it is? Yeah. I think it's like the time. I think. Oh, shit. I never – I thought it was percentage of like how much you talk to them. Oh, maybe that's what it is. Anyways, you just have to – We'll confirm. Yeah. You have to have your roster, you know? Yeah. So she was starting to develop a little bit of a reputation in Hollywood. Yeah.

People are like, you're slutty? Yeah. God, here we go. You're slutty. You like to party. She's not playing the Hollywood games. At the time, people would sign the morality clause and still behave degenerate, but not to the public. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's still like that today? Yeah, exactly. But Clara was like, you guys are hip...

Like, I don't care. I'm just going to be me. Like, she was open about her liaisons with these men. Liaisons. What a great word. I know. Isn't it? Yeah. And this is also when gossip magazines are just starting to, like, come into the picture. So they're picking up on all this. Oh, yeah. Paparazzi and stuff. Exactly. But this didn't stop...

Like, just because Hollywood was like a slut, this did not stop the box office at all. By the end of 1960, or by the end of 1926, Clara Bow was famous beyond her wildest dreams, and her biggest achievement had yet to come. Because now we are talking about the movie It. It. It. For the It girl. Oh. That's where it comes from. Oh.

Oh, I'm going to give you that horror movie. Yeah, it is also a horror movie as well. I was like, was there an original it? But before the clown it, there was the it girl. Interesting. So here's how it came about to us. There's this woman, Eleanor Glynn, who is an author of racy bestsellers. We like that. Which I feel like smut is huge right now. It really is. I want to get back into it. Me too. It's just like romance novels. It's just like sexy novels. It's like three women.

Yeah, Three Women. It's the book that changed Tessa and me. But there's also that like Crown of Thorns or something like that. Oh, yeah. That people are reading right now. Bramies, you know. We should ask Hannah. She's always like, she's like a smut girlie. Yeah, Hannah Brown, you are a smut girlie. That is true. So she was a racy author and she wrote this book called It. And it's about this girl that just had it.

But what is it? Well, in the book, it says, quote, it is the peculiar quality which someone possesses, which attracts others of the opposite sex. The possessor of it must be absolutely unselfconscious and must have that magnetic sex appeal, which is irresistible. It is a magnetic and peculiar force, and you know it as soon as you come into contact.

Could have said it better myself. It's like the original Raz. She, yeah, the original Raz. It's like that aloofness to it that's very sexy. I think that's like interesting that they put it in there. Like the person can't know that that's happening. But isn't this so interesting with like thinking of like the It Girl throughout history of like you kind of, you can't like think you're pretty. You just are pretty. It's an impossible standard. It's an impossible standard. It's America Ferreira's monologue in Barbie. Exactly. Yeah. So.

So it all started here. Now, one of the studio execs that Clara was with is like, I have the best marketing idea of all time. He goes to Eleanor and he's like, if you declare Clara Bow as the it girl from your book, I'll make a movie out of your book. I'll give you a small role and I'll pay you $50,000, which was more than Clara had made in her last seven films combined. Gosh, she's getting rich. Yes, but like Clara didn't get that money. The author did. Oh.

He was like, declare her the It Girl and then I'll pay you to do that. That's fucked up. But it's always everyone else profiting off of the one person. The one person who's doing it. It's like Britney. Exactly. But also such a smart marketing move, by the way. Way to go on that guy. So Eleanor agreed and thus Clara Bow became the first It Girl. And in the movie It, Clara plays a shop girl named Betty Lou who falls in love with her boss and she's just like, I have to have him. Betty Lou. Betty Lou. And there's some

weird in the movie about her saving her friend's baby too or something like that but a little b plot yeah yeah exactly but anyways people just became obsessed with it and in the movie gary cooper was her co-star and um after filming she demanded that he be her co-star in her next film oh she's like me likey clara likey i literally tess and i it's our new thing it's our new thing we're saying it all the time we're saying it all the time yeah clara likey

Clary likey what she saw in the movie and in life. Okay. She was like, it's on Gary Cooper. Is he hot? I think he was hot. Was he in other things? I know that name sounds so familiar, but like from what I saw. Yeah. On the, yeah. And especially a name like Gary, if you can make that sex,

See, go off, King. Good for you. Yeah. So on the set of It, she was unashamed about it being known that her and Gary were hooking up too. She liked to shock people. One of her co-stars said that, quote, Clara was an untamed little minx. She used pretty strong language. And in those days, it was absolutely taboo to talk like that. But she did. She played cards on set. She told rude jokes. She cussed. Oh, my God. This is so Ram-coded. She'd be a Rami. She would absolutely be a Rami. And I can hear that confidently. Same. And proudly.

Yes. She also would give out generous gifts, including an emerald encrusted watch that she bestowed on one of her hairdressers. So she's also generous. There's nothing hotter than someone that isn't stingy when they become rich. I completely agree. It's just like...

And he's like, we're in a community together. And it takes her from a movie star to a modern icon. Like it takes her to another level. She becomes the most popular movie star in the world. She received a record of 45,000 fan letters in a month.

That is like, I feel like numbers are just so warped to us now because it's such a different age with social media. But 45,000 people sitting down to write her a letter in a month. Also, it's so easy to like, which we always appreciate you guys doing it, to send a DM. It's so accessible. Getting some stationery, writing something, going to the post office. Do you know how hard that is? It is so hard to like get stamped. Yes, exactly. So that is like some commitment. Did you ever write fan letters when you were younger? I don't think.

I think I ever did. I think I sent one. Just in my journal. To Leo. Of course. I think I would like, once I got the internet, I would start looking up like, what's like Hilary Duff's address? I think I sent a few when I was like 10. It's just like fun to think about they could know who I am. I know. I know. That thrill. And these people addressed it to the it girl, Hollywood USA. And she would try to read as, I know. And she would try to read as many letters as she could. She was really involved. Like she got a letter from this boy. Yeah.

who was very poor and worked on Coney Island selling popcorn trying to support his family. And so she really connected to that story. So she was like, you know what could help him? If I go to Coney Island and sell popcorn with him for a day, all these people are going to be like, Clara Bowes here and we'll make him a lot of money. And she did. I have full body chills. I know.

What an angel. That is so sweet. Yep. Her next movie was Wings, and it wins the first Academy Award for Best Picture. So she is just, she's killing the game. She's soaring. But even though the public loved her, Hollywood society was starting to reject her. By the release of Wings, she had become the most gossiped about woman in Hollywood. She juggled affairs with John Gilbert, Norman Carey. She was engaged to Gilbert Rowland at one point, Victor Fleming, and Gary Cooper at one point. Damn, girl. Yeah.

That's a lot to just keep up with. I know. But when you have the Raz, like, people just fall head over heels. Yeah, that's so true. Yep. And people would make up ridiculous rumors about her. Like, there was a rumor that she had a party and had sex with every single one of the USC football players. Iconic. I know.

So iconic. Also, like, yeah, get something more creative. I know. Like, she fucked everyone. Literally. But the reality was, because she would, she was actually just a football girly. It's like the reality was, she did. She did. But she was a football girly, so she would have the USC football players over for parties, and she would, like, dance to Charleston with them and play touch football. Touch football. She would be...

She's the it girl. She's drinking a beer. She's eating hamburgers. She's like in a bikini. And it doesn't affect her at all. Exactly. Yeah. Society's not kind. No, it's not. It just really isn't. It's really not. And so the rumors were like starting to get pretty nasty and like calling her slutty and all this stuff that she started like not attending her own premieres because she was like, people are just going to be asking me about this and all up in my business. So she would stay at home and play cards with her cooks and maids.

Yeah. That's really sad. It makes me sad, too. She's so young. She's like... She's so young. She's literally like 22 at this point. It's so loser-y for people to even care. I mean, yes, we gossip about celebrities, but don't like... It's the same. ...say mean things to them. Yes. It's like what Tess and I were talking about. The fact that people... We talked about this last night. ...will comment nasty things on anyone's Instagram is so loser-y. I've only done it a couple times in my life. But for Trump...

Trump and Kelly Slater. Leap out his name. Yeah. Or like Trump. When they were saying terrible things about reproductive rights. I did comment, but I was really upset. Yeah. But you're like, you're dishing it at that point. They are dishing it, you know? That's true. It's just upsetting. And it only gets worse when she does that interview, which I pulled a lot of information from for photo play, where she talks about how she grew up very poor. And she talks about her mother's mental illness. And Hollywood was like, oh, you were poor and your mom had,

mental health issues crazy yes you're trash like they were like i you are putting a dent in the shine of hollywood and you're making us look really bad great just when she's trying to like humanize her childhood and trauma and connect with people well clara was like i don't give a damn you're all hypocrites and she would do things like walk into the beverly hills hotel restaurant and just a bathing suit and high heels and then be like yeah i'm here to eat

And she ate. Amazing. Right? I love it. But the nasty gossip wasn't the only problem. Along comes this little thing called a microphone. And it changes the movie industry forever, obviously. Oh, no. Goodbye, silent film. Goodbye, silent film. Goodbye, silent film. Shalom. Speaking. Exactly.

So, she panicked. MGM prepared Greta Garbo, the actress, for two years before putting her in a talkie. Paramount gave Clara two weeks. It's a whole different game. Like, we have lines we have to memorize now. It's a different way of emoting things. Same. Like, just when you finally hit your stride. And also, this is like the point of the transatlantic act.

Yeah, this is where this fake accent develops. So you're literally being trained as an actor to speak in a way that's very different. She's from Brooklyn. So that's going to be tough. Exactly. You're good at translating. I don't think I'm good. I would need to think of a phrase to say. I feel like you did it on the whole Old Hollywood episode. I was like, God damn. We'll save it. Go find our Old Hollywood episode. Get those streams up. Yeah, yeah. But you know what it's like. It's very like, eh. It's like, yeah. It is like, oh, ah. Oh, I would never. Ah.

Don't say your R's. You are like, where are you from? Truly. What a weird thing. But I think that they did it so that everyone had the same accent.

There's a lot of rumors that Clara Bow didn't make it into the talkies because of her Brooklyn accent. And that actually wasn't the case. Okay. The talkies. The talkies. What was the problem was that she had mic fright. She would have to do a number of retakes because her eyes kept wandering up to the microphone that was overhead. She was just like, what is this thing? Sometimes when you're disoriented, there's no going back. It's just like a whole different ballgame now. There's more pressure.

Yep. And also at this point, she starts gaining weight. And you know that the world is not kind to women who do that. Get over it, world. Get the fuck over it. Let's talk about something else more interesting. Yeah, that's the least interesting thing about a person. Exactly. And so her confidence is just

plummeting and they're like just throwing her to the wolves like clearly she's having a hard time transitioning to this like give her some time give her some coaching but they were like no you have to know how to do this not only that we're gonna start adding singing roles and she's like I'm not

I'm not a singer. Oh, my God. I'd be like, all right, goodbye. Yeah, it's time. It's my time. And then while this is happening, her personal life was spiraling out of control. In October 1929, Clara described her nerves as all shot, saying that she had reached a breaking point. And then photo play starts coming out with these articles citing reports of rows of bottles of sedatives by her bed, which is like, how do you know? Well, how do you know? Then Clara starts realizing there are people in her life that are selling stories to the magazine.

Within six months, she had three front page scandals. One was that she had an affair with a married Dallas doctor, which she did. You know. But the second. Sorry about it. The second was that she had an alleged gambling problem and debts, which she did. And then a third was that she had a courtroom battle with one of her like really good friends who was embezzling money and selling stories to the press. And her friend ends up going to jail for 18 months. But the public turned against Clara. Yeah.

Which is also, I feel like, something we... It's the victim. Like... Oh, it's like... I mean...

Yeah, you know what I'm thinking of? Just Taylor Swift. Exactly. You know, like it's, no wonder she wrote a song about Clara. And we're going to talk about that at the end, all these parallels and what Clara Bow's family has said about Taylor. It's a good thing, don't worry. So we are also entering the Great Depression. Oh boy. Like we're starting to enter the 30s and everything the Roaring Twenties represented was seen as like reckless and trash. And who was the epitome of the Roaring Twenties? Clara. Clara. So now she's the epitome of like- Trash. Trash.

Which I love this trash. I love this trash too. I want to be this trash. We are this trash. Truly. If we may be so bold as to say. Clara Bow said, the girl who had it. All the time, the flapper is laughing and dancing. But there's a feeling of tragedy underneath. That's what makes her so different.

So, her films began to flop also because of the microphone. She started to see the microphone as her enemy and she was so hard on herself that she began to kind of lose it. She would hit the microphone until her hands were bloodied and she had to be carried off set one time. This is like when we first started recording Ram. I feel like the microphone was also our enemy. Right.

The tech issues. The tech issues, the fear. Yep. And if you've seen Babylon right now, you're thinking of Margot Robbie and like hitting her mark and having a tough time. Like someone literally died in Babylon in the booth. Literally. Because of all the takes. And then the smear campaign comes out from this publication called The Coast Reporter accusing her of drug abuse, being a lesbian, which like – there's someone else that we've said. Oh, I'm sorry.

Who was that? And then they were like, oh my God. In old Hollywood? Yeah. It's because like she was wearing pants? Oh, yes. Catherine Hepburn. Catherine Hepburn, yeah. So being a lesbian, bestiality, incest. Bestiality? Yes. STDs. It was unreal. There was actually like no smear campaign that had happened like that in Hollywood before. Everyone had an STD in the 20s. Oh, hell yeah.

Everyone had STDs in the 20s. No one was wrapping that shit up. No way. There's just no way. Not until like 10 years ago I think people started using condoms. Yeah, and it was like, exactly. Exactly. Think about that. In the early 2000s. Well, that was a scary thing if you're watching The Valley where Kristen Doty just said, she was like, here's to snakes and condoms, two things we don't fuck with. And I was like, oh, Doty. It was hard because then I just started thinking of everything she's...

She's been through the doctors. I mean, listen, she's had sex with Jax Taylor and that's a troubling thing on all. And you know that he forced her probably to not use a condom. Yeah. Well, it seems like she was not like really pushing it anyway. So wrap it up, ladies. But I digress. Yes, please wrap it up. Yeah.

Okay, so Clara became the star of American culture at a time when Hollywood studio systems developed formulas for selling sex. And in the 1920s, the press realized celebrity gossip sold papers and the personal lives of actors were fair game. Realizing that any attention is good attention, studio execs embraced the media sensational coverage of Clara's implied abortions.

and mental health issues. And they put these stories out there. It's so inappropriate. That was also the thing of the morals clause with old Hollywood stars back in the day of like hiding if someone got pregnant and they didn't want, if the studios, if the actors were ready to have a baby and the studios didn't, and the morals clause would be like a foreshadowing

a forced abortion. Oh, that's right. And they would have, like, do it, like, secretly at the studios, right? And have, like, their doctor come in and do it. Exactly. But didn't that happen to, um, was it Judy Garland? Judy Garland. Judy Garland. Like, multiple times, right? Bless her heart. Bless... She deserved...

So much better. Justice for Judy, for sure. Yeah. So it's just like so terrible that they're putting these stories out there. She felt that all of her dignity was stripped away from her. And in April of that year, this is 1931, Clara was taken to a sanatorium by her request, actually. She like needed to get away and to like,

hideout and that was the lobotomy she did not get a lobotomy okay um by may 1931 doctors were like you need to rest um you have shattered nerves and if you don't rest you're gonna have a complete mental breakdown so she starts writing to the studios and she's like please be patient with me i'm really just not well right now she's only 25 i've yeah and yeah she's 25 it's only 1931 like she's 25 tests she says please be patient with me i'm not well how do you think they react

You have to come back and work anyway. They release her from her contract. They fire her. And at 25 years old, her career was essentially over. I'm jealous. Yeah. This is why it's like with Simone Biles when she needed that mental health break and she took it and then she came back and just broke another record. Like honor your mental health. Don't push it. Do not push it. For what? And it's never worth it. Like for a job, for like just like it's all you have is yourself. Yeah.

There it is, Tess. Oh, my God. So throughout all of this, though, one man stayed loyal to his girl. Gilbert? No, a new man. Oh? Rex. Rexington. Rexington! Rex Bell. They said that with Rex and Clara, it was like true love. They brought out the best in each other. He was one of her co-stars. She said of Rex, he's given me the only unselfish devotion I've ever had. Yeah.

So Rex was like, I'm taking my girl to the desert. Sometimes you just got to go to the desert. You got to go to the desert. We know. To heal. We did that last week. That's right. Heal and hurt. So he actually had a ranch in Nevada that he called, or that she called her desert paradise. And in June, they drove to Vegas and they got married. Oh, a little chapel wedding. I love that. But she actually, then an article comes out basically being like Clara Bow was a has-been.

And she was like, fuck it. Who's afraid of little old me? She shows up and she does two more films, actually. Yeah.

She was like, I'm not going to let them say that about me. Oh, my God. Who's afraid of little me? That's right. And the films actually do pretty well. But then she does the ultimate power move and she quits the movie business on her own terms. We love to see the boundaries of just being like, you know what? I'm good. Exactly. So she says goodbye to the movie business forever. Rex and Clara go on to have two sons, Rex Jr., who was born in 1934. A junior is so funny. A junior just kills me. We had an episode where I test Junior. Oh, yeah. I was like, weird.

If you don't have a Tess Jr., I'm going to be mad. So Rex Jr. was born in 1934 and George was born in 1938. They lived on the ranch and she used the money from her last two movies to build her dream house. Rex called the ranch Rancho Clarita, but her homemade heaven would not last long, Tess.

So Rex all of a sudden decides that he wants to go into politics. He was like, I'm charismatic. People like me. Oh, God. I should go into politics. So he begins to be gone a lot. And so she's so lonely. They are out in the middle of the desert, like in the middle of nowhere. Yeah.

So when she's gone, she doesn't have anyone. She begins to have insomnia and body aches. And she goes into the doctors and all like doctors all over the states. And they were like, we can't see anything wrong with you, which I feel like so many women deal with chronic pain in this way. Yes. And it's so frustrating to have doctors be like, we just can't find anything. Like dismiss your pain.

feelings of your health. Exactly. And at first, Rex was really sympathetic and was there for her. But then he starts going into politics and gets distracted. And Clara...

begs him not to get into politics because she's like, I am so done with being in the public eye. I just want to have privacy. I just want to be with my family and I never want to be in the public eye again. This is reminding me of Betty Ford a little bit. Same. When she's struggling and her husband's like, I'm working. Like, I got to go into politics. Yes. Be with your partner. Exactly. So she becomes socially withdrawn and she would refuse to go out and socialize with her husband, but she would also like

have a breakdown anytime he left and like would refuse to let him go out alone which is really tough she's in her reputation era she is in her reputation era test and she's like very attached to one person and she's like the person who is like I will take you in and we don't have to be in the public eye and now he's like betraying her yes wow wow no wonder

So in 1944, while Rex was running for the U.S. House of Representatives, Clara attempted suicide. No! A note was found in which Clara stated she preferred death to a public life.

It's so old Hollywood like tragedy. She survived. She returned home from the hospital but was still suffering. And in 1949, she checked into the Institute of Living in Hartford, Connecticut to be treated for her chronic insomnia and abdominal pains. And this is where she did receive shock treatment. Wow.

Which I just can't. Do not trust it. No. I mean, it's just, it does not work. And like, it just must make things worse, really, and make you more depressed. No, it's not like what your body needs. Also, it's not like, I think depression used to be like, it's a one-time fix. Let's shake her up a little bit. Exactly. It's like, it is a lifelong process. It is daily work.

I wonder like what the percentage of women to men were that received shock because I think of it as women receiving it. I feel like it was rare for men to – yeah. And also like she has a history of – not only has she gone through all this trauma in her life, but she has family history of mental health issues. Yeah. If her mom was schizophrenic, like, you know, it's –

a good percentage that she's really, really struggling. Exactly. They tried numerous psychological tests and repressed memories from her childhood did start coming out. This is a trigger warning of sexual abuse.

Clara recalled her mother locking her in a closet when she was younger and she would, while men came over and basically her mom would do sex work to pay the bills as a child when she was alone. And when her father sent Clara away to, or Clara's mom away to the mental institution, Clara revealed that her father had raped her. Yeah. Yeah.

So she had just been through it. And obviously had never been able to talk about that with anyone. Oh, my God. I thought her dad was like really supportive of and like a good guy. I thought so, too. And I was even like, should I even put that in? Because I saw an account of that early on in my research. And then it did keep coming up. And that is unfortunately a part of her story that she had to survive. So, yeah, her pains were considered delusional.

And she was diagnosed with schizophrenia as well. God, this story has taken such a turn. So many turns. I'm so sorry. Sorry, guys. For some reason, I thought that this was just going to have the happiest ending. I feel like this is like surreal. It's a Hollywood tragedy. But it's Hollywood, though. It's never good. It's never good. For these women. No, it never is. She actually rejected psychological explanations and then left the Institute. So I guess she was like, I don't actually agree with what you guys are saying. I think that's what that means.

She didn't return to her family, though. After leaving the institution, Clara lived alone in a bungalow, which she rarely left until her death. I think the bungalow was in Culver City. Her and Rex separated, but they actually still remained very close. Progressive. Right? Yeah.

Co-parenting? Conscious uncoupling. She was the original Gwyneth and Chris Martin. Rex actually died on July 4th, 1962. And exactly a month later, Marilyn Monroe committed suicide. And on Marilyn's death, Clara said, quote, I never met Marilyn, but if I had, I would have tried very hard to help her. A sex symbol is a heavy load to carry when one is tired, hurt, and bewildered.

This episode. Oh my God. It's also crazy that Clara Bow and Meryl Monroe existed at the same time. And like no one really talks about Clara Bow and she's like the biggest star ever. Like it's because Hollywood chewed her up and spit her out. And I think that they were like, you've put a stain on us. So we're going to make you disappear forever. No wonder Taylor V.

Right. And I also think that Clara also wanted to disappear and hide. So Clara spent her last years in Culver City under the constant care of a nurse, Estella Smith. And in 1965, so three years after Marilyn's death, at age 60, Clara died of a heart attack.

But Clara's legacy lives on. So let's talk about it, shall we? Yeah. Max Fleischer's, I think it's his last name's cartoon character, Betty Boop was modeled after Clara Bow's appearance. That makes so much sense. Doesn't it? With the dark short hair, the little dress. The eyebrows. Yep. Oh.

Bo's massive tangled red hair was one of her most famous features. When fans of the new star found out that she put henna in her hair, sales of the dye tripled. Of course. She's an influencer. An influencer. Margot Robbie plays a fictionalized character based on Clara Bo in the 2022 film Babylon. And let's talk about Taylor. You look beautiful.

Also, you look like Stevie Nicks. Listen to our Stevie Nicks episode. Wow, that's a ram-coated song. That is a ram-coated song. And eventually, Tessa said she will take on the task of covering Taylor. Guys, it will happen. I think it just needs to. I think it does, too. So stick with us. Stick with us. It will happen sooner than you think. Exactly. It's her 16th song on... Or it's actually the closing song on the original 2024 studio album, The Tortured Poets Department. And it's a song that she wrote for the

Bo's great-granddaughter said this of Taylor's song. Quote, Clara Bo was someone who was unapologetically herself, and I think Taylor can say the same of herself. In the song she sings, in a town of fakes, you're the real thing, and I think she's referring to both herself and Clara. They're not afraid to be themselves and rise above the noise. I think Clara Bo would feel the same kinship and protectiveness over someone who's of the same level of fame as her in dealing with the media and how heavy the crown is

to carry and then pbs art nana pbs article said this taylor switz and clara bow have much in common a meteoric rise to fame built on talent and hard work a series of close closely watched love affairs and legal dramas with managers former friends in the press both women redefined expectations of what of what an american woman could and should be

Oh my God. And that is Clara Bow. Well done, Clara. I feel like I'm like a little emotional. I know. And it does like, God, it just makes me have so much sympathy for Taylor, for Stevie Nicks, for Clara, for all of these women in the public eye who are just trying to do what they love. And it just always goes back to what they're doing wrong. Yeah.

Weight gain, weight loss. Who they're dating, who they're not dating. Mental health. It's just so unfair and it just makes me really upset. The crown is so heavy. Just to have a whole industry just spit you out when you're just being so applauded for so long and then be like, no more. The industry to build you to how they want you and then be that way and then they tear you down.

I know. God. But I'm like so happy that I know that story about her. Like I always just thought like there wasn't much information on her. Yeah. That's so funny because Alice said the same thing and I was like, there is actually a lot out there. I mean, what a great, what a great story. I would love a biopic on her. She, oh my God, who would play her? You think? Great question. Yeah.

Like, who's the little red-headed actress that's... Oh, the girl... Who? In the All Too Well music video. What is her name? Sadie... Sadie... Sadie Sink? Sadie Sink. Sadie... Yeah, I think something like that. Oh, she's a cute little thing. She is. Diner hair, like glass. Yes. Yeah, we can produce that. Yeah. Call us. Call us. Hollywood. We're ready. Well done, Claire. Thank you. What a gorgeous episode. What a great story to honor her and, like...

I feel really emotional. I just do. Well, you guys know, like, here on RAM, like, we just – let's hear it for the girlies. Yeah. It's just, like, these stories of just these women's, like, journeys just really get to me of, like, we're seeing just the same thing now. Yes. And it can sometimes just feel, like, a little hopeless of, like, what we just do to women constantly and, like, how hard we scrutinize them. Yeah. Yeah.

And it just makes me sad. It makes me sad, too. But it's good to talk about. It's good that I think someone like Taylor is challenging that a little bit. I agree. And she has throughout her different phases of life. I agree. And something like Tess and I were a little like –

not feeling the fact on the Clara Bow song of the last verse when Taylor puts herself in that. And now I'm like, of course you, like you should. Now, yes. Now I'm like, that's like the problem is that we think that you should be like, and now I'm like, okay. We are the problem. We are the problem. But I didn't, like before this episode, I still was like, why would you say that? We didn't know. And now I'm like, she needs to say it. She needs to say it. She needs to scream it. So.

Yeah, take this with you. Like, I think if Clara taught us something, it's carve out your own space, be unapologetically yourself, and then also just, like, stop sending, like, mean comments on celebrities' Instagrams and stuff. Yeah, it's true. Just, like, take care of yourself. Take care of yourself and take care of your girls. Take care of the girlies. Yeah.

Well, Claire, well done. That was gorgeous. Oh, thank you so much, guys. That was so, so good. Again, if you're loving what you're hearing, subscribe on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Follow us on Instagram at Right Answers Mostly. Also on TikTok. You can watch us on YouTube. Next week, we'll be talking about another woman from the 90s. A crazy woman. Who had an impact on all of us probably in some way. Yeah, she did. It's also a heavily requested episode. Yeah, so that will be fun.

That's right. And join our premium if you want more bonus episodes. It's in the show notes. And it's very easy. And we love you guys so much. Love you guys. Bye. Bye.