Silk Road: Murder, Drugs & Crypto
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Welcome back, Rammies. Hello, Rammies. Good to see you again. Thanks for stopping by. How's your Monday going? Maybe you're not listening on a Monday. Maybe it's a Tuesday. Oh, yeah. We'd love to know when you guys generally listen. We can see some of you. That's true. We can. We can see it all. We can see you guys. We have the ability to hack into...

The system. So fitting today, Tess. So fitting. Thank you. I was trying to like get a little foreshadow. I love it. A little foreplay. Foreplay. All right. If you will. Yeah. Love it. Yes.

Oh, yeah, we're wearing sunglasses again. Guys, I don't know if you didn't know this, but first season, when we started at Pirate Studios, that was the theme. We had our sunglasses on often. We committed to it. We thought it was hilarious. We did. It cracked us up just to see us with sunglasses on. Sometimes you almost feel like you're in a different world. In a cave. It's just so dark. But we're back with sunglasses today. We are. We're wearing matching outfits that we didn't really plan. We truly raided our boyfriend's...

Our boyfriend's closet. Yeah, we're wearing like our boyfriend's hoodies. It's crazy. And like, they're so silly. They're so big on us. They're so big. I'm like, but I look like effortlessly cool, you know? No, but we are. We did. And it's truly the exact same outfit. God, I just...

I banged my head into the mic. You got so excited. I really did, yeah. We're wearing black oversized hoodies, black baseball caps, sunglasses. Ribbed jeans, because we've got to stay true to ourselves at some point. Exactly. And I have Birkenstocks on, because I thought that was kind of like techie. Oh, yeah. I have Vans on, because I was like... Perfect. I don't know. Yeah. The dark. The darkness. I bet you guys know what we're doing. What are we doing, Tess? What are... Oh, and also... Well, what are we doing first? First...

Okay, so today, you know, I did have the realization that a lot of my episodes have been something I have a personal connection with. Like I was talking about last week how I was like, am I a narcissist? That like, it's all these things I kind of knew about. Not every single one. I'd say most of them. But isn't that with life? That's true. But then I was talking to my boyfriend and I was like, what the hell should I do? Like, I kind of want to challenge myself. I want to be something I have never heard about.

And Canola goes, have you heard of Silk Road? I have not. What was your reaction? I was like, what is that? And he was like, oh, it's like this guy, Bitcoin, blah, blah, blah. And so he starts talking. And then your brain just shut off. It shut off until he goes, this man wanted to make the Amazon for drugs. A ding, ding, ding. And I lit up like a goddamn Christmas tree. Say more, please.

I've never heard of Silk Road. I think there's a Thai restaurant in my hometown called Silk Road. Oh, yummy. I know. Yummy. Shout out to you. Tess is the biggest. Tess and her friend Katie, those Thai sisters. I couldn't love anything more. But so this episode is dedicated to my Bitcoin baby. Oh, my Bitcoin boo. We fucking get it. You guys have boyfriends. Okay. Bitcoin boo. That's cute.

That's cute. Even though he's not really a fan of Bitcoin anymore. It's all about Ethereum. God, I don't know what any of, what are you talking about? I know. So needless to say, this was a wild ride about this controversial kind of nerdy tech guy, this white dude who was like, what if you could buy drugs online just like Amazon? And shit hit the fan. Murder, mayhem. What? What?

It was a wild ride to research. Wow. I love that he asked that question, though. Like, it's good to ask the good questions. The dreamer. Hold on. The dreamer questions. It is the dreamer. One day I will do vocal warm-ups on the way over here. It's who we are. It is who we are. We are drinking White Claw ASMR. One, two, three. Let's do it.

every time. It's so gorgeous. Oh, thank you. And we also have energy drinks because we are leaning into hacker tech bros. They have tons of cans on their desk at all times because you just wire in. You have to. I don't know what that means, but I learned that from the social network, right? That's when Andrew Garfield smashes the computer and he's like, are you wired in now, bro?

Oh, Andrew Garfield. So hot in that movie. Problematic that he played that role. That hot. Truly problematic. But God damn, that's like the sexiest role I've ever seen. I mean, I love that movie. So good. So yeah, you know, we're just trying to lean into these people that have a lot of experience with

The dark web. Oh my gosh. I'm so excited. Also, if you're new here, my name's Claire. They're like, we've already stopped. The people who like are in this world, they're like, oh, a new podcast on Silk Road. And then they turn us on. They're like, what? No. They're like, and, and. Goodbye. And that's Tess. Hey. Hey, hey.

Hey there. And we're here to talk to you about the Silk Road today. We are. And yeah, so I guess, you know, like we always ask the initial question, what do you know about, let's just say even the dark web. Okay. And maybe a little bit of crypto. This will be the shortest segment ever. The dark web, I know there's something like...

I'm so scared because people who actually know are going to judge me. Judge away. I don't know anything still, so say. I think it's like 4chan and 8chan or whatever, and that's where like QAnon stuff started, and there's like some dark stuff that happens there, I believe. And I think a lot of this stuff happens in like

East Asia, too. Yeah, I think the dark web is popular in places where people are afraid of their governments because I think, I mean, obviously the dark web has a lot of negative connotation and consequences, but there's also things of like where you can read something that like your government has forbidden and stuff like that. Wow, I didn't think about that, but that makes sense. That does make sense. And then like crypto, it's like...

Money that you can't hold. But I think it's valuable. And I think that I will listen to this episode in 20 years and be like, what a fool I was. I think it's where we are going. And I think resisting it, I think it's always good to question, especially new currency. But I think resisting it might be something we regret. Yeah. I don't want to resist it. I want to learn. I want to be on top of my game. Same. I just am overwhelmed by it. I'm overwhelmed too. I think...

It is very like overly consumed with men. And so I think it's really important for us as women right now to at least know about it and to inform ourselves and maybe make a little investment and like set up a crypto wallet, like things that I think will be beneficial to us. I agree. Ladies, let's study up and take over. Let's study up. I don't have tons of info on Bitcoin, but I will generally talk about a mini history of it. Okay. But shall we begin on Silk Road?

I'm propping my fingers and I'm wiring up. Wired in. Wired in. Ooh, Ace of Oracles, owie. God, that was intense. We're intense people though, so. We are. If you just looked at us right now, you'd be scared of us. You would be. I'm scared.

I'm all scared too. It's also really hot in this sweater. Mr. Robot's like this kind of stuff, right? Yeah. Isn't that about like hacking? I think so. Yeah. I kind of feel Mr. Robot right now. Yeah, me too. Overall vibe. Okay. So let's talk about the origin of what Silk Road, the original connotation was and history of Silk Road. So Silk Road...

was an ancient network of trading that started in China in 20th century BC. Whoa. Sorry, second century BC. I mean, I don't even know. 20th century, fuck. The movies, the movies. Perfect. So they were roads and sea routes to transport goods, paper, spices. Spices. Spices. Spices, spices. Okay.

All the good stuff, which then formed into transporting ideas, religion, disease, customs. So like anything, you know, like it physically starts as here's some pepper. And then it goes into something, for example, of, you know, introduction of Buddhism in China. Yeah.

Or the biggest example of this would be the Black Death. Like just ideas being- Like the Black Plague? Yes. Wow. Like ideas being transported from one country to another. Got it. Back in the day, being like, oh, this just came over on a boat. And right now it's the Black Plague. So, you know. Yikes. Has its pros and cons, right? Of like being able to open up your seas. Yeah. So it's like a trading system in China. Yes. Got it. Got it. Okay. Yeah.

Maybe one day we should do the history of the Black Death. God, it's so intense. But I feel like we'll do it. God, those like bird masks that they have. DM us if you want us to do it. I know. I mean, it's just, it killed 30 to 60% of the world's population. They don't even know. That's so scary. So scary. Oh my God. So, many centuries later, of course, there's a new trade route on a new modern platform using technology.

Silk Road, quote, as a website. The Amazon for drugs. Celebrate good times. Come on. You guys are going to be concerned. Let's celebrate. So the man who started Silk Road, let's take it back to Austin, Texas, March 27th, 1984. A man named Ross William Albright.

Was born. He was a social, curious, kind, resourceful little nerd. He immediately went from Boy Scout to Eagle Scout in like an astounding amount of time. Love overachiever. Overachiever. God, he kind of reminds me of like the Mark Zuckerberg type where like doesn't really try, but like naturally smart. Any social? People like him, but also like a little reserved. He's just like a little bit of a...

He's an enigma to me, and he still is after all this research. Wrapped in a riddle and cash. Truly. He gets a full scholarship to the University of Texas. I say Boo Longhorns, but that's because I'm from Arkansas. No offense. I mean, no offense. Oh, already controversial. Yep. Starting it. He's there for a little bit. He meets his girlfriend in 2006. He proposes to her in college.

Quickly finds out that she has cheated on him as they're engaged, which I think it's always important to know, like some of these little. Yeah, no, no. It all comes from somewhere. It really, really does. I think we have a lot of episodes where we're like, and like Playboy to bring it back. Like the men that are cheated on in their, in their youth. They can't let it go. They cannot. Oh. So he returns home to figure his life out. He's devastated. He's heartbroken. He tries out for the amazing race.

I don't understand the appeal that people want to go on that show. Why? I do not. I truly do not now. And like Survivor and stuff? No. It kind of makes sense for him though. Like I feel like he just is this like look at me a little bit of a show off. I want to accomplish these things. Tries to challenge himself. Wants to be like the best in everything. Oh, it's exhausting. It is a little exhausting. He doesn't get in. Yeah.

But he then decides, he's like, you know what? I got to go back to school. Like, I can't let this woman ruin my life. So he then gets a full scholarship to Penn State. Okay. To study material science and engineering. Very tough. But engineering kind of, he's like, eh, like, I'm not so into it. I'm like more, he's taking these classes on government and like social studies and all this stuff. And his interests quickly shift to politics.

Libertarianism. Oh, they always, oh gosh, those white men and the libertarianism. I can't even say it. Libertarianism. Libertarianism. No, I'm just kidding. Terrianism. Does it have an N in it? Libertarianism. Oh yeah, you're a libertarian. Ism. God. Wow. It's basically being like,

These ideas that you guys have, they're wrong. I'm right. I would say. It's... So, like, I think the percentage of libertarianism is made up mostly of... I think it's, like, 71% men. Of course it is. And I think it's... No, no, no. It's 71% white. Oh, yeah. Of course it is. But I'm not sure. I think it's also mostly men. It's, like, 71% white and then, like, 98% men. Yes. Writing says mostly guys. I'm totally making that up. And I don't mean to offend. But also, like, let's...

I don't know. We get that like we don't all love the government and love what we some of the things we have to do. But I think it is very so what it is, it's a minimum government involvement. People are their own rulers. The actual definition is a political philosophy that advocates only minimal state intervention in the free market and the private lives of citizens.

What kind of happens with libertarians is it's like, fuck this. We got to do what we want. Yes. We don't care about the consequences and we're going to fight you on it. That's what I'm just like rolling my eyes out because it's just so aggressive of being like, I know better than everyone else does. Exactly. And you know, it's tough. I dated one once and he told me he was one. In my mind, I heard liberal. Yeah.

It's a tough mistake. These are the things that we try to tell ourselves. He said liberal, I swear. I swear. But yeah, so Ross just gets really into this. You could say that becomes sort of his like passion and like what he wants to study. Yeah.

Ross meets a woman named Julia in an African, I put drug class. I meant drum class. Both sound interesting. It's just where this is all going. So, you know, drugs are on the mind. Yes, of course. So they fall in love. He's telling her some ideas he's having just about libertarianism in general and just like his thoughts of the world. And everything is kind of coming back in their discussions and debates to if all drugs were legal or more accessible to

violence would end and there'd be less crime. I don't know. I think that's a whole discussion, right? It truly is. Wow, that's such an interesting point.

I mean, I guess when you think about decriminalizing marijuana, what has happened, but also marijuana is a much less intense drug than heroin and cocaine. That's very dangerous to people and creates really aggressive behavior. Totally. I think that Oregon is doing it right where they've made weed and mushroom legal and that they've decriminalized marijuana.

every drug. Yes. I think, you know, there's something to be said with that. When he's mixing it into all these other like fuck the government stuff, it just gets a little scary. And I don't trust him necessarily. Yeah.

So they're having all these discussions. She doesn't agree with him. She's a very liberal person and she's like, eh, no, that's like not what I think. But like they're falling in love. She's a very safe place for him. And during this time through his computer, he's like, all right, how can I figure out how to make all of these ideas and put it, put it into something on the web? Right. Always a question. Always a question. So,

So through his computer, he figures out how to turn—so, like, it's called, like, a seastead idea. If you've heard, seasteading is the concept of creating permanent dwellings at sea, called seasteads, in international waters outside the territory claimed by any government. So in a more philosophical way of, like, how can I have a seastead of this idea—

about getting drugs more accessible on the web. Is he super into drugs? Like, why is this his passion project? He smoked a lot of weed, but I think, I mean, a lot of libertarianism is about like...

what we're allowed and not allowed to do. So like a lot of them don't wear seatbelts. And this is what this is. And most, not most, a lot of them have guns. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's also like the government could fail us at any moment and every man for himself. Totally got it. Got it. So at the end of 2009, he starts talking to a man named quote Arto, another libertarian that he finds online. And they start chatting through email.

And he's like, Ardo, my man, I'm having these crazy ideas. What do you think about like free trade on the internet that's untraceable? So he discusses this idea with Ardo. Ardo's like, yes, I mean, like that's the dark web, but you have to go through Tor. Tor? Tor?

Tor is the only way to access the deep web in its entirety because it's very difficult to access. You can't just type in like drugs.com. Like there's no .com address. So Tor is a software that helps you get into the dark web. I'm also like, where is the dark web? Great question, Claire. I'm full of them. And that's why like this, it is kind of fascinating to me because we...

It's just what is happening to our world. Yeah. That life and transactions and ideas, it's all like on the fucking computer. It's crazy.

It's just wild to me. No, it's wild to me too. And the fact that I just can't wrap my mind around it. I know. And so I had no idea that you need like software to access the dark web. Like I had no- And how do you get that software? And don't people trace you? Well, so Tor was initially created by the US Navy to protect communication inside the government so that nothing could be traced. Okay. So Ardo's like Tor provides anonymity. What's it called? Anonymity. Anonymity. Can I speak to that?

Speak to me. I live in a... Finding Nemo. Did you know it? If you know, you know. Where the IP address is hidden and they do not know who the user will be attached to. So like the IP address is like that really long... Totally, totally. Bunch of fucking numbers. Yeah. Maybe letters at the end. Unclear. So, Ardo warns Ross and he's like, you know, the deep web...

It's powerful. And you need to know where you're going. Because a lot of times on the dark web, it's full of hackers, hit men, and child perverts. I feel like they're filled with child perverts. I mean, truly. But he also was like, on the other hand. Not children that are perverts. No, sorry. Pedophiles. Yes, yes, yes. Predators. Yes.

But like I said at the beginning of this episode, it can also be good for people, that's what Arteta is telling him, who are living in countries where governments control you. Also, journalists use it for a lot of information and businesses can use it to like gain more knowledge about like what's going on with their website and sales. Totally makes sense. Like, you know, there's some good parts of the dark web. Like, it's not all dark. Not all dark, honey. Honey. Let me tell you. Yeah.

But Ross is like, well, fuck, like I want to do all of this. And like, let's say I do create an Amazon for drugs, but how do people pay? Because you can't do credit card. You can't do PayPal. We need something that's untraceable. Did you know Elon Musk created or like was one of the starters of PayPal? Was he really? He like bought into PayPal like the very beginning when he was like 20 something. It's neither here nor there, but. I'm not surprised. I bet. I don't mean that man. The money. The money. Okay. Sorry. No, please. Um.

Joe, coincidentally, at the same time, Bitcoin is being created. So this is like pretty recent. Oh, yeah. I mean, all of this is like 2009 to 2015 will be the journey. Okay. Okay. Wow. This is very recent. Bitcoin was being created in like 2009? This is when the ideas are starting. Wow. And this is when the creator of Bitcoin comes out and declares that a new currency is coming. Wow.

So Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency, a digital asset designed to work as a store of value that creates cryptography to control its creation and management rather than relying on central authorities. The history of Bitcoin started with his invention by Satoshi Nakamoto, who integrated many existing ideas from the cryptography community.

So they're basically like, fuck banks. We've seen it before and we'll see it again. How do we trust them? Everyone should be in control of their own finances. And, you know, with the 2008 recession, people are kind of like, well, maybe there should be something else that we can rely on. Totally. We all remember 2008. It's not well, bitch. Yeah. So Bitcoin would solve these problems. No taxes, no credits, straightforward without the hustle. People are very attracted to it.

So Ross was like, oh my God, cash, straight cash for the internet. Perfect for drug dealers. We love to see it. Yeah, perfect for drug dealers. So in 2010 is when Silk Road was launched. So he's working on this website and the only thing he wants to start with is marijuana on Silk Road. Which is not legal at that point. No, no.

So the only person he's shared anything with so far is this guy, Richard. He went to school with him. He was a programmer who was helping him with code because it's important to remember through the story. Ross may have a lot of ideas, but he does not have the technical. Hmm.

ability to really be doing this whole thing. You need to fucking know how to like, how to code. Yeah. And that's like, you can't learn that from studying, being a libertarian. No, you sure can't. God, that's, wow. He's the idea guy. Exactly. So Richard is familiar with what's going on. He's like, I'm going to help you out, but we really shouldn't be telling anyone about this. And he's like, no, of course not. He's like, I'm just going to share this idea with Julia.

His girlfriend? His girlfriend. African drum circle. Princess, yes. Princess, our queen. She's like, okay, I guess I respect this as long as it's just weed and like you guys aren't going to go any further. Honey. And so November 2010, they're going to go on a date night. He blindfolds her for her own protection. What? Not sexually. Okay. Takes her to a random location, takes off the blindfold, and she sees a room full

with magic mushrooms and weed. Gorgeous. So this was the place he had been disappearing to every night. He explained everything to her. He had rented the space from their landlord from the apartment that they shared together. And he was like, I know I said it was just going to be weed, but we're doing a little bit of shrooms too. Wait, are they in Texas? Yes. Bold. Bold, honey. Honey. And so they're looking around this room and it's like, ah, the little magic mushrooms are like, hi. We're here.

They're like twinkling like little lights. Totally. Oh my gosh, gorgeous. I mean, it sounds really gorgeous when I think about it. Probably the actuality was like going into like a fucking warehouse. Yeah, not pretty. And she's looking at her boyfriend like you've come undone and you're scaring me a little. It would be a little scary. Like we're making light of it, but. It would be scary. I think she's a little bit at this point like, who is this man? Totally. And these ideas are kind of going further and further and like, when's it going to stop? And yeah, they're both, both. I mean, it's all very illegal. Yeah.

Truly. Yeah. Like if anything, it's just they could get in big trouble for that. So sorry. I said that in 2010 it was launched. That was when Bitcoin was launched, I believe. Okay, got it, got it, got it. January 2011 is when the website Silk Road is ready. So they had to grow all the... They were shipping out the weed themselves? I think they were growing it. Wow. So they are like...

and also growing the product. Just him and Richard at this point are the only people that know about this. So I think it took about a year in like conceptualizing the idea and then actualizing like the growing and everything. So by the launch, it's mushrooms, acid, and weed. Okay. So we are just expanding. So we're jumping into it. He's like, I would never do heroin or Coke on here. Let's keep it like...

Hippie, like light, enlightened, all of that. So Ross gives Julia and Richard this point, a step-by-step of how to get into Silk Road. It's by .onion, not .com. And the IP address is crazy. They go in and Julia sees on the inside, it's mostly this blank page.

But then there's this green logo of a camel. Oh. And that's their logo. Really? I've never seen it before. I don't think. And she said that it looked exactly like Amazon. There's links, drugs, psychedelics. It just looks very organized, very professional, but it's just fucking hard to get to and like a little bit cryptic. So that's literally the only thing you need to know is this like-

IP address and then you're good or you have to have the software? Oh, that's a good question. I think to make a website on the dark web, I think you have to have the software, I think to access it.

You just need the IP address. Okay, got it, got it. I'm pretty sure. Right answer's mostly. Right answer's mostly, honey. And you need Bitcoin. So like only at this point certain people will be able to be like, I can get in. It's chill. Which is for the best. Which is for the best. Can you imagine? No. Jesus Christ. So now Ross is like, well, how are people going to know about this? Like you can't really advertise it. You can't be passing out flyers. I know. Like, I mean, you could. It's never a good idea to pass out flyers. Sure isn't. Triggering. So...

So he goes to all these different like shroom posts online of like people being like, dude, I took this. I watched this movie. Was Reddit a thing yet? Do you know? Reddit is a thing. Yes. And so he's going all over the web and he is having a fake, an alias username being like, oh, hey guys, just jumping in here. Like I came across this website called Silk Road that claims you can buy or sell anything online.

Oh, if you have Tor browser. Question answered. Tor browser. Everyone needs Tor. Okay. Oh, Tor. Tor. This is what we talked about before. Tor. There's the answer in the quote. Right, which I'm sure a lot of people, yeah, thanks Ross, will have that if they're doing this kind of stuff anyway. Yeah, I think if you know, you know. You know, you know, yeah. So then he posts a second post on a Bitcoin forum and he goes to a Bitcoin for heroin forum and he's like, hey.

Like, I know you guys like the hard stuff, but I also just saw this website. So he's making his way. Making his way downtown. Making his way downtown, walking past Faces, or walking past Faces Pass. And I'm homebound. I mean, that is insane. So like, just jump so much to heroin. Truly. So...

In the first two weeks, he already has 28 transactions. Oh my God. Also, it's like such a dark place to be on the dark web for heroin stuff. I mean, Jesus Christ. I'm scared. I am scared as well. He has how many? He has 28 transactions in the first two weeks. Great. So really not bad. Uh,

I mean, I don't know great, but great for, okay. Great for probably the progress of what he expects from you. But it starts growing pretty quickly. In April 11th, 2010, or 2011, I'm so sorry, we're in 2011. How dare you? It's grown to a thousand users. Whoa. So keep in mind, you can be a buyer or a seller on this. Oh, you can sell? Yeah, so people can go and be like, hey, I have this.

So you put your username in. It's literally like Amazon, that there's different companies. Wow. And I'll explain how they get the cut and commission and everything. But it's truly like a community of buyers and sellers. Wow. Which creates some issues. Mixed personalities. Truly. Show transaction, like I said, very similar to Amazon. There's a product. There's the cart. You check out. You make the purchase. The funds retained by Silk Road go into escrow. And the drugs...

That are from the buyers. What the fuck does this mean? Say it. We'll figure it out together. Let's see. This is one I type really quickly when I'm listening to a podcast and walking my dog. I was wired in. It says, drugs to buyers, released funds to escrow to seller. Drugs to buyers, released escrow to seller. Funds to escrow to seller. So escrow is when it's like being held, right? Right, right, right. So...

Ross is charging, what I do know that is clear, Ross is charging, he's getting 2.6% commission per transaction. Okay. So he's acting as a third party on this. Got it. Got it. So yeah, that's all I can say about that. Yeah. If you know, you know. If you know, you know. But so now people are getting their drugs. They're like getting the mail. You know, mushrooms are being wrapped in a Ziploc bag, put inside a book.

I was going to ask how they were sending it. Oh, yeah. I mean... So put into a book. Yeah, I think it's pretty creative. Like when I... What shall I reveal? When I got a fake ID. Hey, who didn't? Yeah, of course. From China. Oh, you had a fake ID from China? Manufactured in China. It was my name, but it was Maryland, I believe. It came in the craziest thing that I was like, it's not in here. And you had to open this like...

Really? Like old, like hard drive. And in that was a CD. And then in, like you literally had to go through like, it took like an hour to open it. Wow. So that's really the only thing I can, I can talk to you about like the drugs being hidden. Maybe this is just like so ignorant, but I'm just like, I feel like there's so much more important things to worry about than if like,

a 19-year-old's getting a fake ID. You know what I'm saying? That is true. If there was less attention on that and more on... On other things. On mental health, maybe. Yeah, I don't know. I agree. Kids are going to drink. Yeah, exactly. They're going to drink if they should. And drinking, trying to find places to drink illegally, as we know, or to pull hey misters. What's a hey mister? A hey mister is when you...

Oh, hey, Mr. Wee, go buy me that. Yes. Yeah, got it. So on these deliveries, on the envelopes of the packages, it looks very legit. It's like a printed out name and address, so it looks like an Amazon package. So by April 2011, money is coming in hot. Wow. Ross has already himself, because of commission, made $20,000. Wow. You can't like...

I mean, with, sorry, let me learn how to talk. But like, you can't just have that money because then like with taxes and stuff or your lifestyle, people are going to look at you, no? But it's all in Bitcoin.

Wow. It's all still on the web. Like he's not doing anything with it yet. So he can't like go out and buy anything yet unless he uses his Bitcoin. Yeah. Yeah. So he would just then have to exchange whatever he's wanting to buy. It has to be through Bitcoin. Right. So it's not like people are looking and being like, Ross is like living it up all of a sudden. Okay. Got it. No. Okay. Not yet. Got it. Little Miss Julia is like, sweetheart, this was cute at first.

Now, not so much. So she's looking on... She's kind of keeping track. She's like, I don't want to be too involved, but I want to see what's going on. And so she goes into Silk Road and she sees...

that some sellers were starting to sell speed, cocaine, and heroin. And he said that would not happen. He did. They get into this huge fight and she's like, what if there's an overdose? Of course. And he's like, well, there's a rating system for all of our sellers and all of the experiences. So I take off anyone that doesn't have like five stars, anyone that's had a bad experience with the drugs, they aren't allowed on Silk Road anymore. So he has this like-

He's full of himself. Yeah, totally. He thinks that he can control the safety of this. Totally. It's really out of his hands. Of course. So... It's heroin. Like, the fact that you're like, if someone has a bad experience with it, I'll take it down. Like, you're still, like, allowing heroin. Well, exactly. And so, you know, he's like, we have this new, you know, the feedback system is so great. And she's like, well, does feedback work if they're dead? Oh, Julia, there it is. There's a quote from Miss Julia. Yeah. Show, as you asked about Reddit, and...

other shortage are starting to pick up on Silk Road. They're like, obviously it's getting more traction. It's getting more popular. And so now some journalists are like, I heard a little something crazy about this website. I feel like journalists hang out on Reddit. I think they do. You must. Alice is a journalist to me. Alice is our resident friend on Reddit. Yeah. I tried to download the app the other day and I was so overwhelmed. It's overwhelming to me too. Same. Same.

So we have a journalist, Adrian Chen, and he stumbles upon these posts on Reddit being like Silk Road is wild. You got to go check it out. He wrote for Gawker. Today's gossip is tomorrow's news. Oh, love. Yeah.

So he goes to a Bitcoin forum and a lot of Bitcoin forums are like, dude, actually, like what if Bitcoin and drugs are starting to become too like intertwined? Like we don't want that to be the association. Totally. That wasn't the point of Bitcoin. And so Chen ends up seeing how to get into the site. He goes into Silk Road. He's wired in and he sees 343 listings of drugs and variations. Wow.

300 variations. Yes. And so he's like, holy shit, why is no one talking about this? Like there's this type of coke and this type of heroin and this speed and this form. And he is overwhelmed by what he has gotten himself into. It's crazy that it exists. Truly. So he ends up posting this.

On to Silk Road being like, hey, I'm a journalist, like messages the admin. And he was like, this is crazy. I'm just so you know, I'm going to do a story on this. And so Silk Road admin, our boy Ross, he says, please hold off on the story until we're a little bigger. He's like, you can definitely do it, but I just want to. So narcissistic. I want a peacock. Truly.

And Chen's like, no, dude, this is crazy. And like, this is really dangerous. I think people should know about this. And Ross sticks to that. He's proud of the site and the community. And this makes drugs safer and everyone's going to see it shortly. I don't think it makes drugs safer, Ross. I really don't. I don't think there's a safe way to do heroin. No, he's like, if like I didn't have this, I'd be back on the black market and like all this shit. This is the black market, I feel. But he's such a fucking... Narcissist. Narcissist that he's like, this is community. Oh my God. Yeah.

You know? He can't see past it. He can't see past it. He's his own worst enemy. Wow. So Chen comes out with this article called The Underground Website That You Can Buy Any Drug Imaginable. That's crazy. Crazy. And so it's read by millions. Obviously, it's brought to the masses.

New York Senator Schumer reads it and he's like, fuck, fuck, fuck. God damn it, I was just having an easy day. He's like, now we have to worry about these tech nerds selling heroin. My God. Truly. Someone else, Senator Joe Manson from West Virginia is like really concerned about it. And he's like, we need to shut this down. We need to get like whoever does that kind of stuff involved involved.

So the Department of Justice and the DAA, those guys, are like, we are coming in hot. We are going to help. We were ready for this. Truly. And so Ross is getting note of this. He tells the Silk Road community, you also have to think of Silk Road. It is like Amazon. It's also like a cult. Yeah. I feel like all these things kind of are. Yeah. Like users talk to each other and they get support from each other and like,

A little later down the road, he ends up hosting movie nights of like, everyone watch this link. And like weird shit like that, that they're all just, I kind of think that they're all these lonely people. Everyone wants a place to belong. It's so true. So, so true.

So Ross reassures the community. He's like, as many of you know, senators have become aware. We'll be putting in more efforts to counteract their attacks. Wow. He's just digging his heels in deep. Because I was thinking it was like if a journalist was like, I want to do an article about this, I would be like, don't bring this to the public. But he wants it to be public. He just wants it to be huge. And he has such confidence that he will remain safe and that he will not be revealed. Wow. Show time.

After the article is released, it goes to about 10,000 visitors a day. Wow. All these people have this software? I mean, think about like the dark web. Like you have one person that posts something on, and people that are on the dark web are on it like all day. I think they are too. And information travels fast and there's not a lot of places to go really. Yeah. So you're like-

It is just this like, think about like a Facebook post that someone popular back in the day. Totally. I just guess I didn't realize how many people are on the dark web. A lot of people. Like active. And like all over. I mean, it's not like a physical place. So you can be anywhere and anyone and access it. Wow. If you know the right information. Show 10,000 visitors a day. Uh-oh. Uh-oh.

The site cannot handle it. We're crashing. Too much traffic. Too much traffic. So he, Ross is now like, no new registration. Give me some time. No new friends. Like truly. And he starts like freaking out.

And so he was now like, okay, we can't just have anyone coming in here. We got to get elite. Elite? Elite, like elite members. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Like a Soho house. Of drugs. Of drugs, if you will. No longer Amazon, Soho house. Got it, got it. Soho house is like, please don't put our name. Include me in this narrative, one of which I never asked to be a part of. So people are now selling off their memberships and they're like bidding. So it's like they're getting more concise and more condensed into like,

Like an auction, like essentially, of like who would be the most dedicated sellers and buyers. So in the meantime, let's just say that Ross and Julia are not well. I would imagine. I would be so pissed if I was her. So pissed. He's at his computer all the time. And a seller had just introduced guns. Oh.

Oh, no. Which she finds out and she completely disagrees with. And it's like, this goes against everything that I stand for. Yeah. And Ross is like, if the government can't have guns, why can't people? Like, you're just, we're doing the same thing that everyone that's controlling us is doing. Nope. Nope. Nope.

So Julia leaves to visit her friend Erica in New York. She's like, I need some space from you. I don't even know if I want to be with you. How do you explain that to your friends? Like, my boyfriend is selling heroin and guns on the internet. I'm mad at him right now. So remember, he was like, you really can't tell this to anyone. Okay, yeah, but you say that and then you always have like two friends that you always tell. I'm just kidding. Well, that is true.

So Erica tells... Oh, no. No, Julia tells Erica what is going on. She's like, you have to swear that you'll never tell anyone, but I am concerned. And she was like, fuck, I'd be concerned too. Like, let's pin this and see what happens. So she goes back to Austin and she goes up to Ross and she's like, me or Silk Road? What do you think he says? He said Silk Road. Of course he says Silk Road. You know, there's that song, it's like...

She's like, I'm going to miss her when she's gone. Yeah.

It's where a woman asks him, it's either me or fishing. And then he goes, well, I'm going to miss her. Wow. It kind of reminds me of him. Country fans, you know. Wow. Wow. What's that documentary about that fucking guy climbing? It's Free Solo. Remember when she's like, me or the rock climbing? Rock climbing. He's like, so I'm going to question. Oh, my God. Rock climbing. You people that are so dedicated to something. Choose love sometimes, guys. Choose love. Yeah.

And not drugs. Oh, just the rage I would feel. The rage. So they break up. He moves into a new apartment. They're still kind of on good terms, which is weird to me that she's, I think she's still like holds a soft spot for him. Yeah.

It's just like, I love him except for this one part that I can't get past. Yeah, like it didn't have to go like this. And I think she still kind of has hope that he is going to completely end it. Totally. So one night, Erica now moves in with Julia. She moves to Austin to be with her. They become roommates. And one night, they wanted to score Shemashin. Oh, all of a sudden, Choke Road doesn't look so bad. Yeah.

So where do they go, Claire? Silk Road. All right, Julia. Julia, honey. A little hypocritical. Yeah, you can't turn back on that. That's also like, you can't buy from the thing that you, oh my God, Julia. Listen, we're complicated human beings. We are, but like, yikes, you know? Yikes. That just ended your relationship. So they do get acid from Silk Road. Erica has a horrible, horrible trip.

And she ends up being hospitalized. Oh, my God. Julia didn't even go with her. Why? I don't know. Was she, like, scared that it was going to get all connected? I think she was like, I don't want to be a part of it because I also know, like, how dangerous this place could be. Oh, my God. If I was Erica, I would be so pissed. Truly. Like, this is your fucking crazy boyfriend that did this. Yes. So Erica returns to New York. She's like, fuck you. I'm not going to live with you anymore. And she wants revenge. Yeah.

Oh, no. So Erica logs on to a little Facebook.com. Oh, no. And she writes a status that says, I'm sure all the journalists and authors would like to know about Ross Ulbricht's website. So he sees this on Facebook. Oh.

He calls her. He apologizes. He pleads. She ends up agreeing to delete it and being like, let's call. Let's. What should you say? Like, I'm sure you want to know about it. And I got the deets. Yeah. Like a little bit of like a little cryptic, a little cryptic. And I'm sure people that thought were like, what? Who's wrong? Everyone had this like really dramatic Facebook status. Just like my heart hurts. But.

It doesn't hurt as much as it did when I was a child, you know? Yeah, totally. And then you just scroll up to another dog video. Yeah, you're like, sure, sweetie. Yeah, exactly. I mean, Lord knows we all had those. Yeah, we sure did. But at this point, he's like, I'm not safe anymore. Because, like, people now, like, we had little Richie. Remember Richard that was the engineer? Oh, yeah. He's upset with him because he was like, dude, dude.

Maybe you should sell this to another person, like, and ask for some money so at least, like, you get whatever out of it, like, from being the founder. But, like, let it go because, like, it's just getting weird. It's growing too big. And he—so he lies to Richard and says, okay, I'll do that. So he's starting just to become, like—he's starting to become sketchy as hell. Oh, no. So he leaves Austin and he sells his pickup truck and he goes to Bondi, Sydney. Sydney, Australia. Bondi. Yeah.

I don't know. You know, I tried. I love it. I appreciate the effort. It'd be better than I could do. I'm so bad at Australian accents. What's that one phrase that they say to do? Raise a blade? Raise a blade? Raise the lights or something? Steak on the barbie? That was gorgeous. Thank you. Come on over to Outback Steakhouse. I'm just like, the next 30 minutes is just us going back and forth. And terrible Australian accents. Yeah.

I was like, what is this? I just saw a cord. I was like, is something not plugged in? Okay, focus, Tess, focus. So, this is the part of the story that kind of reminds me of Catch Me If You Can, if you will, little Tom Hanks, Leonardo DiCaprio. We have to mention Leo. Leo is our third co-host. Truly. Leo and Diane Sawyer. We are the dream team. Yes.

So he goes to Australia, but at this point, someone in the government is starting to lurk. The little Tom Hanks, if you will. Oh, yes, yes, yes. A kind of nobody by the name of Jared Dulagian. Dulagian.

He's part of Homeland Security. Of Australia? No, he is part of Minneapolis. Okay, got it, got it. So he starts realizing that there are some pills that are going through some envelopes with little pills inside that are going through Chicago O'Hara Airport. So most officers would have been like, eh, it's one pill. But this guy who's working at the airport ends up calling Homeland Security and being like, this

This is kind of weird. Like, I'm feeling all these, like, tiny little things really coming in hot. Where? Like, coming through where? I think, like, the postal thing of the airport. I think so. Because isn't there, like, a section where you can, like... I don't know. Somewhere, someone's somewhere in Chicago O'Hare was feeling pills and envelopes. Sure. That's all you need to know. Yeah. And they contacted Jared. And Jared was like...

all right, I haven't had a job for a long time. Like I'm going to put all of my efforts into this. So he was like, well, if it keeps happening, call me. So in October it happens again. And they also are like, customs are coming across these envelopes that they're small, like almost like handwritten envelopes, but they are printed on the front. And so that looks a little fishy. It's like,

Are you trying to make this professional, even though this is the size of something that would be handwritten? Interesting. So, ding, ding, ding. Guys, like, let's figure this stuff out. Truly. So...

This is now happening constantly. And Jared goes to his supervisor and he was like, put me on the case, ma'am. Put me on the case. And he's like, fine, just do whatever you need to do. Like, this is stupid. Like, we have so, like, kids are doing drugs. And if it's not like thousands of them coming through a day, like, it doesn't really like go on our radar. Kids are doing drugs and we are just pushing out D.A.R.E. programs left and right. Left and right. I wore my D.A.R.E. shirt last night. Gotta love it. Effective, right, guys? I'll post it. Yes, yes, of course, of course. Thank you.

Thank you to my Bitcoin baby for my dare shirt. Bitcoin baby, I'll never get over it. I love it. So Jared's like, I'm going to Austin. Like, I got to go find this guy. So he goes to Austin. He knocks on, no, no, no, no. He does not go to Austin. He, one of the envelopes, he follows it and he tracks it to this guy named David.

who was in New York. And so he asked for David, David's roommate answers. And he's like, we're starting to think that you guys are doing something with delivering some drugs. And do you know anything about where this comes from? And his roommate is like,

David's at work, but have you heard of Silk Road? He just like willy nilly talks to him? Idiot. Well, so maybe he was lonely. Maybe. And Jared's like, what's Silk Road? And he's like, oh, dude, we've purchased meth, marijuana and ecstasy on Silk Road. Oh, God. So Jared like looks this up and he sees that there's nothing on this besides the Gawker article by Adrian Chen. And so he's like, I need to build a case against Silk Road.

But what needs to happen is that I need to see a large amount of drugs coming in to like make this a thing so that this isn't just like flushed out. So supervisor's like, sure, do it on the side. We don't really care. November 2011, Jared is like, well, I think I can finally make a case out of this because I am seeing ketamine and heroin now being delivered. So he meets with a U.S. attorney. The U.S. attorney is astonished.

But he's like, I still don't think this is that big of a deal. What? Does that mean that there's so much drug shit going on that we don't even know about that this was not a big deal? Truly, like every part of the story, I feel until the end, it's just being shot down because nobody cares. Wow. And this is like the fucking U.S. attorney and the DA and all these people. That's crazy. And so Jared's like, it's drugs now, but it is, let's look at it as it's terrorism next. Like people could be selling drugs.

Yeah. Like this is just like out of our control and there's so many users. And also like, who the hell runs this? Totally. And so now they're like, Jared's like, I'm going to pose as a user. That would be so fun. I know, wouldn't it? I mean, I feel like I kind of did that. You love catfishing. This is like your dream job. I was like, was I a part of this? Just blacked out being like, hello, user 8924. I'm blacked out right now.

Meanwhile, Ross is in Australia. He's living with his sister. Okay. He's lying and saying he's doing like engineering on the side and that's why he's on his computer all day. He's contacted by a new user, one that goes by Variety Jones.

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Rammies, I'm going to let you in on a little secret, and I'm going to say something that you probably have never heard a soon-to-be bride say, and that is that I love wedding planning. I have had such an amazing, fun, light experience doing it with my fiance, and that is a huge thanks to Zola. So with Zola, you can plan your entire wedding in one convenient place.

You guys, they have everything. So from like the day you get engaged, you can start planning on Zola. You can find the venue there. You can create your save the dates. You can make your registry. You can make your wedding website. Even to the final stages of tasting your cake, Zola has everything.

everything you need to make this process super easy and fun. And this should just be a pleasurable experience that you get to share with someone you love. And I'm really appreciative that Zola has just let us do that. There's even a five-star app that helps you plan on the go on your couch. So if you and your future husband or wife are watching a movie, having a glass of wine, plan your wedding

from the couch. Do it wherever you want because this is all about you. So here's what you're going to do. You're going to start planning at Zola.com. That's Z-O-L-A.com. You can thank me later. Variety Jones. And he said that he stumbled upon this website and he found it hard to believe that this could even exist.

He quotes and he says this to Ross. He says, he's trying to be like, get to know me a little bit. He says, there isn't anyone who knows me, even a little, that would even dream of crossing me. Ross said that? No, this is with Variety Jones. Got it, got it. And if they did dream it, they'd call me and apologize. Whoa. So he's like, nice to meet you. Housewife tagline.

Truly, it's so good. So this man is like, dude, I love this website, but I want to help with security because I fear that it is not strong enough and you don't know enough about this and you need someone on the inside. So Ross is like, yeah, but you know what? At this point, like it is, I just need to like say this to get it off my chest, like not to be a downer or anything, but understand that what we are doing could result in the death penalty. So I don't want to like bring that many people in. Oh, whoa. Vrija Jones says, balls to the walls, all in my friend. Yeah.

So now Variety Jones and Ross are like BFFs. He's starting to act as his mentor. It's just crazy. They've never met in person. No. Oh my God. They're talking. First it goes from like every couple of days to every day to every few hours. And they're literally talking every minute. They're just like back. And I was like, was this a love connection? Oh wow. An emotional affair. They're like teenage girls. I mean, you're so lonely. You have to. These people just seem so lonely. Truly. And Jones keeps like telling him, he's like, you know, your problem, man. It's like,

People don't know how to decipher between if you're like a poisonous or like a little like garden snake. He's like, that's your problem. Like you need to be tougher. You need to be like telling these people like who's boss. And he was like, I think you need to change your admin name. And he's like, and I have just the name for you. And what is it? Well, you've seen Princess Bride. Of course. Show. I've actually, I haven't seen that since I was like a kid. That's going to be another movie that we need to watch for a movie night. We definitely do. Beautiful. And so-

Variety Jones is like, so you know the history of the Dread Pirate Roberts?

It's a series of individuals who pass on power to each other. I haven't seen Princess Bride in a while, so I'm ashamed to say that I do not recall. I guess it's something from Princess Bride. Okay. And he's like, you change your name right now to Dread Pirate Roberts. Wow. So that will go on to be his official like admin username. That's like very like intimidating. You have to be a real Princess Bride fan to know, I guess. And I was like, Bride Jones, how many times have you fucking watched this? Like Robin Bride, she's stunning. She's my queen. I mean. I agree. I agree.

He probably was just watching it all day. Yeah, no kidding. You know. Totally. She was a beautiful woman. We know. Yeah, she's a beautiful woman. So everyone now starts calling Ross Captain. So at this point, it changes to like, this is now a cult. Ross is making $500,000 per month.

Off of this website. On Bitcoin? Yes. Oh, my God. When can you cash that in? Good, good question. Actually, I don't know, like, how that even works. Like, what's the point? But he's starting to have panic attacks. Rosses? Yes. He's like, I'm making so much money. I don't know what to do with it. There's a death penalty for drug offenses in most countries. Really? Yeah.

Yeah, I think. I mean, like definitely. Like, I mean, I know in like, for example, I think later on, like in Thailand. Wow. Wow. Yeah. So intense. So intense. So he's now getting kind of scared that he's in a different country. And he's like, you know what? I think I'm good. Especially with like Variety Jones having my back. I think I'm going to go. My boy. He's like, I think I'm going to go back. My Bitcoin baby. I'm going to go back to Austin and just kind of like settle up there for a little bit and like start kind of creating a team. Go back to my roots. Go back to my roots. Yeah.

And at this point, we have a little ABC, a little NPR that starts covering. So we're having a bit more coverage that Jared, back to our Jared little Tom Hanks figure, is like, oh, God, like now I'm kind of getting competitive because I want to cover this case. And now like bigger agencies are coming through that want to be the one to like solve it. It's interesting because I thought that Jared was going to be Variety Jones. Oh.

Oh, I'll shut my mouth. Well, well, well, well, that's why I thought to at first. So Jared's like, fuck, fuck, fuck. And the Baltimore D.A. is the one that is really going in hot. And they're like, we are going to take this down. Jared's like, no, please. And they're like, shut the hell up. Like, you just looked at some envelopes with little pills in it. But I really want it. You little dweeb.

And so I also can't wait to look up a picture of this man because in my mind, he's so sexual. And I like Jared of this new day DAA officer, Carl force. Carl is actually Tom Hanks name. No shit. Catch me if you can. Carlito. Carlito. So Carl works the DAA. He's an ex drug addict himself. So he had taken quite some years, some time off and he's like, fine. Like, okay, I think I'm ready to go back in.

Straight to the belly of the beast, some might say. He's like, no, no room for that. So Carl's like, you guys have all been doing this wrong. Like what you got to do is you got to go get in on the inside, create a username. I'm going to say I'm some guy from the Dominican Republic. I'm going to create a fake identity. And I'm going to say that I have made $25 million smuggling drugs. And I want to buy the website off of you. That's so easy. Yeah.

Right. It's like, why did no one think this? I mean, it is like a game though. It's like, you have to go just as far that Ross won't suspect that you're someone, but at the same time, like, and he was really criticized for it because people were like, you're giving him too much information of what to do. Like, you're almost like helping him out too much. And Carl stood by like, no, we have to fucking go in to get any sort of like outcome for this. Cause they still don't know who this man is. They have literally no idea. Yeah.

So he's offering to buy the website. Carl's like, I need to think something. Ross is like, I need to think that something's over. But he does trust that this guy is, fuck, what is his username? I have it somewhere else. Okay, we'll come back to that. Let's go on the dark web and create usernames that are our aim IDs, our first one. Tessie Wessie, 1991. No, do your exclusive one because you can't have your name. Too scary. Ice Skate Gal, 15. There it is. Pink Forever, 823. True.

I'm like, I'm so sorry. I just shared that with everyone. Now it's not exclusive anymore.

Check out our early 2000s episode. You'll hear it. Please do. Obviously, Silk Road is huge, but people aren't really happy with the commission because a lot of sellers are like, dude, you're making so much money, but we want to be making more money. Of course. So they're getting into a lot of fights. There's tension. People are doubting if Dread Pirate Roberts really has their back. And they're like, Captain, we're helping you and you need to help us. So there's rage from sellers. Yeah.

He ends up writing this whole message to them that is like, what have I ever lied? Do you understand my risk? Shame on you. You have no clue what I go through every night. It's literally like 10 paragraphs and it's so intense. Oh, no. So he's come. And then he ends it with, if you don't like your captain, get off the boat. Jump ship. Wow. So 420 rolls around. 420. Yeah. 2012. So it's about a year after it has launched. Yeah.

He's like, you know what? Happy 420, my children. He's like, I'm going to make a little exclusive promotional sale. If you don't know, real quick, 420 is like weed day. It is weed day. It's beautiful. It is lovely. It should be a national holiday. It should. One day. We should have work. We should. One day. One day.

We can make that shit legal across the United States. Truly. Dread Pirate Roberts, Rossy Ross, is like, you know what, guys? I'm going to throw in a trip for two with expenses. Like if you auction off some little fucking deal of like each purchase you make, if you make more and more, you can draw for the big prize. It's on me. More drugs equals more vacation. Yeah.

And also, I'm going to give you 10% discount on everything. Oh, my God. So, it's a beautiful day for Silk Road. Everyone's like- 420. Like, truly, people are dancing. So, there's this user by the name of Tony76. He is a seller, and he has 100% positive reviews. He's, like, one of, like, the best sellers on the website. Wow. People are, like, he has international clients. A man of the world. A man of the world. Just, like, really, like, rave reviews. Yeah.

And on 420, Tony was like, well, you know what? I'm going to take advantage of this too because I'm one of the best sellers on Silk Road. Oh, no. I'm going to offer everyone more than a 10% discount on my stuff. And I'm going to do it 24 hours before the 420 launch. Oh, no. And so that goes against little Dread Pirate Roberts because he's like, that was not.

Cool. And those are against the rules. There still are like rules and regulations in which like, I mean, Ross is in charge. He's the one to make all the calls. Obviously the sellers work for him. And so Tony 76 really takes advantage of that and like fucks him over.

And Ross was like, uh, uh, uh. So he ends up getting all of this money before the launch from people. He gets $250,000. Oh, my God. Before 420. And it was a complete scam. Wait, what? He ends up getting all the money before promising, like, then you get the discount tomorrow. And he takes it and he fucking runs. He was such a promising guy, I feel like, at first. Wow, what a snake. Yeah, he, like, knew that he was great and that people trusted him. And so this is the first time that Silk Road is like,

Oh, no. There's Variety Jones is like mutiny, mutiny. What do we do? Variety Jones. Variety Jones. What a man. So they're panicking. And so Variety Jones is like, we have three choices. We leave Silk Road and we go to the black market entirely. And like, we keep doing this. We do it like we just have to leave it behind. Number two is that sellers are going to build their own website to compete, which is not good. And three, that people are going to start hacking into it.

So they're like, fuck. Like hacking is always, security has always been our issue. It's our weakest link. I'm not good at it. You're good. But like one person can't really do all of this. What do we do? Sure then. Remember little Dominican Republic Carl? Yeah, Carl. He logs in and messages them from, again, from the username Nob, N-O-B. That's what it was. Nob.

And so Ross is like, dude, I'm panicking. Like things are getting bad. Like maybe I should take you up on that idea of just like buying the whole thing. And Ross is like, how much could you offer? Like,

How much would you offer me? And Carl's like, oh, you know, like maybe six figures. And Ross is like, you need to pay me a billion, one billion dollars to be able to take this over. Billion. Billion, honey. Honey. And he's like, I could pay that, but it's not worth it. What if we do a, what if we compromise? Yeah.

And I buy like a spinoff called Masters of Silk Road, where the major dealers get to go on that. And it's like a more exclusive Silk Road. And Ross is like, I love it. We should be working on it. It's like the Malibu of the Soho house. Truly. It's like this is an entirely different membership. Totally, totally. So Nob and Dread Pirate Roberts are now new BFFs. And they're like, we are partners. I trust you. Here we go.

And Ross does trust him. He really does think that he's this guy that like has made tons of money selling drugs. Ross is so low, so low, so lonely. Truly. At this point, Variety Jones is suggesting they do a separate website to buy guns because he's like, eh, we should kind of probably keep it separate. And Ross is like, nope, it's all or nothing.

So they're kind of starting to get tension between that and Variety Jones is getting a little bit concerned with the heroin, amount of heroin that's being bought. Oh my God, yikes. Another thing they're fighting about is... Variety Jones and Ross? Yes, Variety Jones and Ross is that cyanide appears on Silk Road along with kidneys and livers. Oh my God, what the fuck? Yeah.

Yeah. What do you do with like that stuff on the black market? Well, so Ross is like, you know what? Cyanide can be good for, what does he say? Cleaning silver? Yeah.

I think there's plenty of other things. Have you heard of silver polish? Yeah. And so he kind of is like starting just to become undone and it's like liver and kidneys. He's like, well, if it's consensual between the seller and the buyer, we can't really say anything. But why are people buying that? I don't know. Why? Tell me. Why are they buying that? I'm like, if you need a liver transplant, like...

But that's, I feel like that's, I know they're hard to get, but like a doctor is not going to like put a liver in you that you got from the black market. Like, I feel like that's not why they're buying it. Something with like murder? I don't know. To like. I don't know. I don't know. That's so weird to me. I should have looked that up, but why do people want kidneys and livers? I'm so, but I think that's the thing of like kidneys on the black market. Maybe it is because they're hard to find. It's so weird. God, that is so, that is so, so weird. Okay. So at this point, Knob, Carl.

Excuse me. He's like, dude, I'm not really getting anywhere. Like things are getting worse. Like I did say that like I, yeah, we don't have a billion dollars.

What should I do? And then they're like, oh, bingo. Like, no one can really touch this case unless it's a threat to national security. And at this point, it's like no one still really, really cares. And they're like, we'll buy explosives, and then it will be a threat to national security. Oh, my God. It's like a bunch of guys being like, how about this one? Yeah. Explosives.

And then they're like, well, fuck, actually, that's not very safe because then explosives are in the mail. Oh, yeah, thanks. So Nob is like, okay, we got to like move this fast. Back to my idea of like bulk drugs is what will like scare people. I'm going to plan on transferring $27,000 of cocaine and like posing as like that's our first big drug transfer, which is that's a shit ton of cocaine. Yeah. At this point, this is the darkest part of the story. Yeah.

There's a man named Curtis Green who's an employee for Silk Road. He goes by the username of Chronic Pain. Oh, clever. Truly. So they, sorry, have like employees? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's like a bunch of just people doing like...

Yeah, like all over the world. Working from home. But they don't really know who these people are. It's crazy. And they're just getting Bitcoin. That's crazy. So it's all wild. So they asked Curtis, who's like one of their best employees, like you need to find a buyer for this $27,000 worth of Coke that we have from Knob. And Curtis is like a chronic pain. Let's call him chronic pain. Is like, okay, let's do it. So the plan is for the Coke to be delivered to Curtis's house.

Ross sends Carl, N-O-B, the address. Mm-hmm.

And at this point, they're like, all right, Baltimore, DA, we're on it. Go, go, go, go to the house. Game time. Game time. So they arrange a priority mail package. They control the delivery. Obviously, the officers are posing as like the mailmen. There's people outside. They're ready to take this down. There's a SWAT team. I've been practicing my lines. Truly. Curtis opens the door. He picks up the package that the postman has delivered. Okay.

And he just immediately throws it in the garbage can. He returns inside and all of them were like, what the fuck? Like, is this not the guy? Like, did we get our story wrong? 10 minutes later, Curtis opens the door again.

Gets the package. Closes the door behind him. The task force makes their move. It was a test? Yeah, he knew. Like, I think with this kind of stuff, you're like, if I'm being watched, always do something 10 minutes later. And he thinks, like, I'm always being watched. Wow, they just had to be patient. They had to be patient. So they waited. So they...

Break into his home. They see that part of his face is covered in cocaine. He's like, yeah. I wasted no time. There's a money belt attached to his hip for $23,000. Oh, my gosh. Wow. He literally had cocaine on his face. And they go to his basement and they see this computer. And they're just like, holy shit. What is this? And they are in. They're like, okay.

This is Silk Road. Like, we can see Silk Road's escrow account. We can see the passwords of users because he handled the logins and everything. Oh, my gosh. So Curtis is arrested. And Ross is like, huh? It's been a day. Usually I hear from Curtis, like, every, like, couple hours, sometimes every couple minutes. He's a little needy. And so he Googles Curtis because at this point he started asking for some of his employees' names.

when he got a little bit paranoid and he sees that there's a recent arrest. He sees a mugshot and he also sees that there's $350,000 missing from user accounts. So he's like, what? He's like, Curtis has stolen all of this money. He's like, it's Curtis's fault. Curtis is arrested. Yeah, but because of Curtis, how his power of handling all of that, he just assumes that Curtis has stolen from his users. Okay.

So Variety Jones, back to Variety and Ross are talking and they're like, what a fucking asshole. This guy has betrayed us. And Variety Jones is like, you know what you have to do?

Freddie Jones. You have to kill him. He is truly the devil on Ross's shoulder. He literally is. Oh my God. So he's like, I have this guy. We call him Irish. He's a hit man. You know what you have to do? You have to kill him. I feel like that's not what I was thinking. So Carl Forrest Knob arranges a meeting with Curtis. He's like, hey man, I'm actually on your side. I've been in on it or not your side. I've been trying to bring you down, but now I'm here to help you.

He's like, and Curtis is like, you know what? I'm a good Mormon boy. Like, he goes into the hotel where they meet with a lawyer and the lawyer ends up being like, peace out. I'm not doing this. I'm not involved with this. I did not sign up for this. Like, this is now like getting like kind of creepy. Yeah. So...

They're all together and Carl gets back on the computer and he's talking to Ross as Nob. And he's like, hey man, what's going on? And Ross is like, this man stole money from me. You know, it needs to be done. Variety Jones and I already have like a hit on him. Oh my God. You are just loose lips sink ships all the damn time. Truly. And so Nob is like, hey, hey, hey, let me handle it.

Mm-hmm. So he's like, no, no, no. Like, I can get a hitman for a lot less money. Like, I can get this guy. Let me take care of this. I've done this before. So is Curtis Jones out of jail or they have a hitman that kills him in jail? I think he was bailed very quickly. Got it, got it. So, yeah, he's now just like doing his thing. Totally. Totally.

And so what happens is that, I was going to say Gnarl, Knob, Carl, is like, all right, we have to, like, I don't want you to be killed. Whatever you guys have been doing, like, you're going to suffer from it. But this is now, like, where I can intervene and help you. So he's like, we need to fake your death and send it to Ross. What? So he's like, I do need to pretend to torture you in the bathroom, slash, like, kind of actually torture you so I can send it. What? So, you know, there has to be proof for Ross. Yes.

And so they set this whole thing up. What did they set up? He, so he's like, we have to like video, we have to record you going in and out of the bathtub and being like waterboarded. Is that what it is? Waterboarded is when they put a cloth on your face and then like pour water. So it truly feels like you're drowning. God, that's not it. It just basically was him going like- Like drowning. Yes. And so they send that to Ross. He's like, that's not good enough.

I need him to be dead. Like, we don't want him to be tortured. Like, come on, like, let's speed up this process. Oh, Ross, you have gone so dark. Carl's like, all righty. So he tells Curtis how to fake his own death. He's like, you need to pour a can of Campbell's soup into the bathtub. What kind of Campbell's soup? Tomato. Okay. And then you have to drink the tomato soup very quickly and make yourself throw up.

So it looks like you're just like in a pool of blood, but also like you're... Well, you had to pour a can of soup in the toilet? In the bathtub. Oh, in the bathtub. So it just all looks like red and bloody everywhere, but then also like throw up in it. So it looks like he's like... Oh, wow. Yeah. And he's like, and take a photo on your phone.

So the quality isn't very good, but he can basically be like, oh, there's blood everywhere and he's floating in the bathtub. It's not funny, but it's just like so crazy that they were faking all this. Like a theater kid's dream. Literally, they're like, we love this. This is fun. This is exciting. Yeah.

I'm just thinking of like the Campbell's handheld tomato soup that they would all, you know, they just put in a microwave. That is what the trick is. Yep. And so Ross is like, cool, I guess he's dead. He gets the photo. He's like, job well done. Here's $80,000 for doing it. Ross, you fool. Literally paying $80,000 for a hit on one of his employees. This is what has happened to him. Oh my God. Show. Around the same time, there's this user called Friendly Chemist.

And he's known to be like, he's hacking into sellers' accounts. And Ross is starting to realize who this guy is. Long story short, there are two people that he ends up thinking that is the source and the culprit of stealing more money.

He ends up hiring a hitman for $150,000 to kill these two people. And Carl's not there to protect him. And Carl's not there to protect him. So it's truly like at this point he's now paid for three people. Oh my God, that is so dark. You've gone so dark. He has gone so, so dark. Wrapping everything up to the final conclusion of them figuring out how to get the identity of this man.

Remember how I always said that like the security wasn't great. Yeah. The FBI is now involved. About time you guys show up. Yeah. They're like, all right. Like Carl's like, you guys might like there's some killing going on. Like I need to tell you of like my involvement with it. So FBI is like, we're on it. We're going to wait for a mistake.

And a mistake came. It always does. This is when I'm like, I don't really know what this means. But the IP address went public for like a second. Well, I think that means that like because the IP is all private and stuff. And so it's like for a second it went public, right? Yes. And they were able to like catch that so that they could log in. So the FBI sees it. And they ended up essentially getting the code or getting the password to get in, which I'm like, what?

There was an encryption, but then they like went to ice, like they asked like Iceland if they could like do something with it. There was like a bunch of teamwork to be like, here's the IP address. How's, how do we get the password? And they did get Ross's password into Silk Road. Oh my God. Ross's password. Ross's password, which is try to crack this NSA password.

Oh my God. Little fucking nerd. I would be so pissed if I was the people who got that. And I beg and I fucking did. I did crack it. Truly. So we have this guy, Gary Alford, who works for the IRS. And he's getting interested in this case just by seeing like the FBI's involvement. He grew up in this town where there was a murder when he was little, which like made him kind of want to go into like this field where they couldn't find out.

who the murderer was, but there were... He thought that if he could trace all the parking tickets that happened over the course of, like, two months, he'd be able to find people that were, like, distracted, and that's why they've been getting so many consistently. What? And so he's really, like, inspired by this, like, case when he was a child that... And they did find this guy from, like...

Wow. Somehow tracking the parking tickets. What? So he builds this whole profile kind of with like that. And he's like, okay. He first thinks it's Adrian Chen, the writer of the Gawker article, who's like, maybe it's him because he wanted to like exploit it to get more users. He's like, no, that doesn't make sense. And so he's like, well, let's just start going back to like, you know, Bitcoin forums and all this stuff. And so he sees that post that Ross had initially sent on the Shroomery being like, anyone else visited Silk Road? Yeah.

And so he can see that his original login was SilkRoad.Onion.Altoid. And that was like what he put as like where to go. So he basically just works from like the start of it, but like dissects and then he goes backwards. And he does this for months and he is literally like on the internet constantly. I can't believe it takes so long to like backtrack. Truly. And then he's like, well, wait, what email is linked to this Altoid account? Yeah.

And it's frosty at frosty.com, which is a fake, obviously, email because Ross knew not to put a real email. But you can see an email used before frosty. For a second, you can see the original email. And that went by the name of rossalbrecht at gmail.com. Oh, Ross. Yeah.

So Gary is like, he searches, he finds his LinkedIn. He's like, there this man is. Bada bing, bada boom. Bada bing, bada boom. He's like, we are going to fucking get this guy. And, you know, Google. Then you can truly get every information about a person that you need. It's true. I mean, obviously you guys know that. And then at the same time, they realize that Customs and Border Protection officers are

We're finding nine fake IDs coming in to the U.S. with the same photo of a man, and that is Ross. Why is he getting fake IDs? So that he can run away? Yeah. Why would he not get fake IDs? Just for protection in case he had all of these. So he could escape. Mm-hmm. Oh, my God, Ross. Truly. So in the span of just 10 days, the U.S. Attorney's Office drafted a criminal complaint against

The FBI got an arrest warrant and the team headed to San Francisco to take down Ross. He's in San Fran now. He's in San Fran. He had to go where all the other tech bros went. He really did. He's like, this is my place. But to make their case, they need to catch him literally with his fingers on the keyboard so that he was connected to Dread Pirate Roberts.

What? So how are you supposed to do that? Well, this is when I'd like to do a dramatic reading to end the episode. Oh my God, I can't wait. I've been waiting for this. So this is the account of different people involved. We have Jared. Do we have Jared? Let me see. Let me pull up my dramatic reading. We have Jared. We have Austin. It's just the people involved that...

Finally did the... Jared and Austin and Vincent at the end. Yes. Director, who is who? I will read the stage directions. Okay. If you would like to read Jared and I can read Austin. Gorgeous. And I'll read Vincent. Okay. So this is what has happened. The day that they find him, a replay, step by step. I'm glad that Jared is involved in all this. Bless his sweetheart, sweet, sweet man. And I am Jared. Yes. I'm channeling Tom Hanks. Here we go. Okay.

We didn't want to do a traditional FBI knock on the door, go in and arrest him in his living room because we knew we wouldn't have access to the laptop. We needed to make something happen.

Let's not do stage directions. Okay. Okay. So I'm Jared, guys. Remember? Okay. So I'm digitally watching Dread Pirate Roberts online and then physical eyes on Ross. What's his name? Albrecht? Albrecht. Albrecht. Albrecht. Okay. So let me read. I'm digitally watching Dread Pirate Roberts online and then physical eyes on Ross Albrecht. Had him still at his house in San Francisco. Dear, yeah. Oh, that's me. Or Jared. Jared. Went into a local cafe, ordered coffee. Meanwhile, their surveillance team saw Ross leave his house.

Oh, that's me again. Sorry. Oh my God. When the script comes out, people get nervous. I know. Okay. So as I was waiting for my coffee, the FBI agent walks in and says, our friend's coming down the street. Our friend is coming down the street. I walk outside and turn to my right. And then there's Ross Albrecht actually standing next to me about 10 to 15 feet away at a street corner waiting for the light to change. Okay. So then Ross walks into the same cafe that I had just left.

I think he's gonna, you know, probably walk right out because there wasn't any open seats when I went in there. And sure enough, he turns right around and he goes right to the next, or he goes right next door into the Glen Park Library. Mm-hmm. Wow. Sure, at this point, undercover FBI agent quickly says,

They go to their places inside the library. Vincent now says, Ross Albright heads upstairs and is observed entering the science fiction section. Of course he does. Loser. Sorry. Where he sits down at a table there. At this point, Dread Pirate Roberts is not online.

We're sitting on a park bench across the street from the Glen Park Library, and I have my computer. And we're just waiting, hopefully, for Dread Pirate Roberts to sign online. He sat at a table, opened up his laptop. We saw within a few minutes Dread Pirate Roberts ping on my computer. He does sign on the chat. And so that's my cue to pretty much start up my chats.

The agents in the library can see Ross typing. A couple hundred feet away of the library, unbeknownst to Ross, is the person he's speaking to. Jared directs him to go look at the message, knowing that he has to log in in order to actually access it. Once Ross gets to the post, at that moment, the order to execute the arrest is given. Two undercover agents stationed near Ross created a diversion by staging a fight.

So he turns over his shoulder to see the actual fight occur. And he does that. And sorry, as he does that, another surveillance agent walks over, picks up the laptop, walks it over to our computer tech, hands it to him. And as that happened, happens, Ross Albrecht lunges towards the laptop and another agent walks up behind him and bear hugs him. And then the investigative team then placed Ross under arrest.

So the cyber team makes sure the laptop stays open. They find a treasure trove of evidence, fake identities, chats, even Ross's personal journal. Most damning, the computer's username was Froshty. Froshty. Froshty the snowman. Write it out, Tess. I've never seen more incriminating information in one spot ever in the 11 years I was in the FBI. Insane.

Thank you for that, Claire. I love a stage reading. We all do. What? So Ross was charged with seven counts, including neurotics trafficking, computer hacking, money laundering, and a kingpin statute. What? Kingpin statute usually reserved for mafia dons and cartel leaders. I don't know what that means. I don't know, but...

So he's in big trouble. So in January 2015, four years after Silk Road started, Ross' trial began. The defense admitted that while he had created Silk Road, he handed it off to others and then they lured him back to take the fall.

After a 12-day trial and less than four hours of deliberations, a jury found Ross guilty on all counts. So fast. He was sentenced to double life sentence plus 40 years without the possibility of parole. Wow. I mean, Ross, what do you expect? Well, Variety Jones, he was found to be- Yeah, yeah. Who is Variety Jones? A man living in Thailand, a Canadian living in Thailand by the name of Roger Thomas Clark. Okay.

On December 3rd, 2015, Clark was arrested in Thailand and faced extradition in the United States. Like he has to go to, I think, he has to go to the United States to be tried. Yeah. So he was charged with neurotics trafficking conspiracy, distributing so much narcotic stuff, computer hacking, pretty much the same thing. Wow. And he got a maximum of 20 years in prison. Oh, wow. Not as much as I thought he would be. Yeah. I can't wait to see what these people look like in prison.

I know. I only looked up for some reason. I was like, I just want to wait until the end. Yeah, yeah. Because I kind of was like, I have to give credit to Casefile, this three-part podcast I listen to all about this. I mean, I literally like looked up a couple things online and a few articles, but this was really the best. And I, it, so good. It read like a movie and I was just very fascinated with it. And so I didn't want to look anyone up until the end and-

I looked a few up and I still want to see like. I imagine Carl just looking like Carl from Summer House. I imagine him so hot. So hot. We'll do Hot or Not. You guys know. You know, you love it. We did it on Watergate. Throwback to season one. Yep. And we will do it on this one too. Hot or Not. Wow. So that is, that was my longest episode.

It's hard to fucking... That was amazing. Like, wow. I'm surprised. And sorry I keep, like, moving around my chair. I have to pee so bad. I have to pee as well. But I can't believe... Like, this is going to be a movie soon. Like, it has to be. It was a movie. Oh, it was. With Nick Rob...

Robertson, I believe, the kid from The Teacher. A teacher on Hulu. Oh, wow. That makes sense. That was good casting. Not great reviews. Kunal watched it and said, the book about this is really good, which I have to get the author. But the movie was trash. It sucks. It's like such a good opportunity for a movie. What's his name? Ethan Embro is also in it, I believe. I really thought it was.

Yeah, we'll post photos. But yeah, it has been a movie. There's a really good book on it, Case File, if you guys want to like really dive into the stuff that I did not know. Wow. And there's so much still to learn about the dark web and crypto and all of that stuff. Like we just skimmed. Skimmed it. But that is, that's what happens when you want to create Amazon for heroin. Wow. And that's the thing, guys, like...

Let's be selective and safe about drug use. Yeah. You know? I mean, like, we make jokes about- We make jokes. Or joke. We don't make drugs. We make jokes. I mean, Claire and I, you know, we smoke. We smoke. We love our marijuana, but it is a safe and legal drug. Just always know what you're doing, where you're getting it from. Be aware. Yep. Exactly. Be safe. And listen to your girlfriend. And don't choose-

Don't choose it over your girlfriend. No. God. Wow. Poor Julia. I wonder where is she now? She's beautiful. Is she? Of course she is.

Tess, well done. Like that is a big thing to take on. I would be so scared and you did it gracefully. I appreciate it. You know, there's some bumps in the road. There's some questions I still don't really understand, but we'll follow up. And if you guys want to learn more about it, listen to that case file. Don't come for us. Don't come for us. Okay. I'm sorry. But seriously, guys, I mean, I know that I loved it. I'm sure you guys did too. And as always, I want you guys to DM us and tell us, excuse me, your thoughts.

If you have any more information for us. Let us know at all, kids. Let us know at all. And thank you for listening today. Again, if you want to receive our newsletter, DM us and we send it out every Thursday. We're waiting for you. We are waiting for you. Please like and subscribe and give us a five star and a review. We appreciate it. And we love you guys so, so much. And stay off the dark web, God damn it. Just do it. Just refrain. Refrain. Refrain. We love you, Rammie.