Queer Cannabis History (with guest Andrew Freeman)
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Hi, Rammies. Today we are so excited to talk to Andrew Freeman. Andrew Freeman is the co-founder of our favorite joints, Drew Martin. Inspired by the radical resistance of queer people that fought for cannabis legalization, the 100% queer-owned company is committed to creating a more inclusive industry. In 2020, Drew Martin launched his line of pre-rolls in California, seeking to perfectly balance cannabis with natural botanicals. Drew

Drew Martin is distributed in dispensaries throughout the state. It is also one of the very few queer-owned companies in the cannabis industry. Please enjoy our episode with Andrew.

Welcome back, Rammies. Another episode of Pride Month, What Could Be Better? There's literally nothing at all. Except if we have a guest. That is true. We are here today with Andrew Freeman. Hello, hello. Hello, Andrew. How are you? So, I'm great. How are you? Fantastic. Jess, how are you? You know what? I'm just great, too.

We're all in a great space. I just saw Andrew this past weekend at a party. Yes. A Drew Martin party, which was super fun and very L.A. Yeah. L.A. pool party, except make it very queer, super inclusive. And everyone got a little high. Oh, my gosh. You're calling to us. I got quite high. And I had one of the Olga Moscow or two of the Olga Moscow mules. What's that? Those were great. It's...

I had to miss. It's a new queer-owned vodka brand. Oh, love. That actually all the water is distilled from the Russian River. It's all wheat harvested in California. Oh, my God. It was so good. And it's named after his mom, right? Yeah. Aw. Which we love. We love nothing more than that. Yes. One of the founders is Julian Morris, who's an actor. Oh, my God. Yes. Oh, Julian...

Amazing. Oh, that's so cool. Pretty little liars. Yes. Okay, awesome. Yeah, the party was great. It was so nice to see you. We went through 600 joints. Stop. Yeah, 600. How much were you responsible for? I had, let's see, I had one and my boyfriend had one. But that's also the beauty about, y'all have heard us talk about Drew Martin a lot.

Like every episode. Every episode because they're so great because they're so light. So it's like the perfect social joint. So I've talked about before that I started getting into weed in 2020 and I never was like a really big fan because I always felt like I was kind of out of control of my body and all that.

And then 2020, it's like, well, what else are we going to do? Literally. And then when you discover Drew Martin, it's like you're very much in control, but you still have that light, lovely high. Yes. I've been giving a lot of Drew Martin drawings to people that are a little bit hesitant. And I'm like, you know what? You're going to be fine. Like, just start with a few little puffs. Yep. And then you'll feel confident and then you'll want to finish the entire thing. Exactly. Exactly why we created it and exactly how we were thinking about it. You know, we felt that...

Frankly, weed's kind of gotten too strong. It's gotten tense. It's really, really strong when I was talking to Drew's dad and he was telling me that back when he was younger, they would buy an ounce and sit around and smoke it all day and then still just kind of be kind of high. Yeah.

That sounds like a lot of fun. Right. What doesn't sound like fun is getting like one joint, smoking two puffs of it and having a heart attack. Oh, for sure. And no one wants to feel too high. That literally happened to me once where I was like an infused like pure THC oil or whatever. And I took one hit and like I was pretty seasoned. Yeah. And I was so glad that one of my best friends, because I was like, I looked at her, I was like, I know I'm not going to die, but I feel like I'm going to die. You have to tell me.

to my face, but I won't. Am I still alive? Yeah, am I melting right now? Always the double check. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I talk about this a lot with some of my fellow stoner friends of like back in high school, you know, it was just so different than what it is now for kids

18-year-olds that are starting to smoke weed that, like, it's just so much more THC that I understand the, like, nervousness that people have now around, like, you know, teenagers starting to smoke young because it's not what it used to be. It's just so, like, unregulated and... And when you have one of those bad experiences like that, like, it's kind of like, okay, nope, that's actually not...

Right. For sure. You have to get back on the wagon immediately if you're going to keep doing it. And there's a lot of benefits that can come from using the plant. Yes. If you find a way to use it for yourself, if you find a way to incorporate it into your lifestyle.

For sure. And that's what we were trying to do is give people another option, a way that they can incorporate it into their lifestyle that wasn't overpowering and that wasn't focused just on getting you as high as possible as quickly as possible.

Right. And we love that. We do love that. And y'all have done it. And I remember when I first walked into MedMen and I saw your packaging is so beautiful that I was like, it immediately, I remember exactly where I was. I was like, what is this brand? I've never seen this before. It's gorgeous. It's like,

has animals on it and like vibrant colors. It's very floral. And that's so much of, you know, why people buy a certain joint or edible is just based on the packaging, the marketing. And you guys do that so beautifully and it's very unique. So thank you so much. We are all about it. We wanted to create something that was,

people felt comfortable again incorporating into their lives something that you could leave on a coffee table not have to hide in a drawer or put something that's something that you would be like I want to show this off right I want to show this cannabis product off yes put it on the bar cart you know like so much of like your bar cart design it's like oh this beautiful bottle this brand that I identify with we wanted to create something like that like in the cannabis space that people could like share

share it, that it felt shareable with people's, you know, in people's most intimate spaces, their home. Oh, that's so smart of, yeah, not like trying to, you know, with the sort of taboo element of weed, of like not just trying to like something, you know, your mom comes over and it's like, where can I put this? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hide it, yeah. And there is such a stigma about it that is not like the most beautiful substance, but it is the most beautiful substance. It's an incredibly special and gorgeous plant. It has been stigmatized. Yes. You know, it's part of a history of essentially racist propaganda that has led to the plant being seen this way. When in reality, you're talking about just one, a plant that we know very little about.

because of its status on the first tier of drugs. It's classified by the federal government the same as cocaine is. That is crazy. The same as meth.

- That's crazy. - Yeah, it's insane. That's how it's regulated as a schedule one substance. - Ridiculous. - Wild. - Wild. - But that's the history of a long set of policies that have led to it being viewed like that when in reality, this is, and especially, we talk about places where it's grown like here in California where it grows really beautifully and naturally and there's an incredibly rich culture of people cultivating this plant here for a long time

And it's like, we work with an incredible farmer. Her name is Tina Gordon. She's been in Humboldt County growing for 17 years now on this beautiful piece of property. Wow.

It is like four hours away from the closest town, dirt roads, up in the mountain. It's gorgeous. Have you been? I haven't been yet. Drew spent a bunch of time with me. Well, call us when you go. Yeah, if you need a buddy. Yeah, a buddy. It is so cool. And she grows everything regeneratively, meaning she's growing it alongside other wildflowers, other vegetables, and things like that. And she also grows everything on lunar cycles.

So based on, you know, based on the status of the moon, she's cracking her seeds. She's planting them. She's harvesting. Can we get her number also? I'd love to chat with her. What a dream job. She's incredible. She's actually staying with me right now. She's at our house. She sounds like a dream. I mean, I'm sure it's very hard work too, but like that is the, that is the Nancy Meyers movie that I want to star in. It's called Moon Made, it's called Moon Made Farms. Absolutely beautiful. And she actually has, um,

she sells her flower as a product line as well that's at MedMen. - Oh, great. - Oh, great. - We'll definitely be checking that out as well. - Yeah, it's beautiful. - Oh, that's so exciting. - Yeah, we'll make sure to get you some. - Oh, thank you. - We would love nothing more, Andrew. - We will take it. - Well, we're so excited to chat with you and hear your history in the cannabis space and being a gay man in the cannabis space. So just to start with the basics,

Where did you grow up? When did you start smoking weed? How'd you get into all of it? I'm from Florida. I still remember the first time I ever smoked weed was on a, I was raised Jewish and I'm like in a, we were on a like youth group trip. It's always one of those trips, isn't it? Always a youth group trip. That's how you get through it. Or summer camp. It's either a youth group trip, summer camp. Oh, you must. And my friend Mike brought some weed with him. Oh, okay.

Last time. I got high for the first time. And then I smoked all through high school and got really into music festivals and stuff.

Okay. Yeah. That whole scene. Um, and then college as well. I went to school in new Orleans. Oh, fine. Where'd you go? I went to Tulane university. Yeah. And, um, and I love new Orleans crazily. I did move there two days before hurricane Katrina. Oh my God. Oh shit. Yeah. So we didn't like, I didn't go to school for the first semester. Um, uh,

And then when I came back, I was just really thrown into the redevelopment of the city and working within mostly the education system after the storm while going to school, which was really cool. And I ended up staying in New Orleans for 13 years. Oh, my gosh. Which is where I met Drew. Oh. How'd you meet? You know, Drew and I met at...

well after a time either of us should have been out still. The best, you know. The best of stories. Yeah, of course. Three in the morning at a bar. He was living in, he was living in Nashville at the time. So Drew had spent probably a decade just kind of traveling the world. He was living in Brazil for a while. He was traveling through India. Lived in Hawaii. He was working on cannabis farms in like Humboldt, Mendocino area. He lived

It truly sounds like you're talking about made up people. No, I think it's crazy. Like Lunafar. It just keeps getting better and better. I think it's crazy too. So he's like been doing all of this, doing all of this stuff, kind of traveling the world. He ends up at a off the grid queer commune in Tennessee. Oh, in Tennessee. Wow. There's an off the grid queer commune in Tennessee. That's like an intentional queer egalitarian community where Drew lived for a year.

And it was there where he actually met

and started working under, you know, everyone in this community has kind of roles. You're not forced to do anything. There's not like a chore chart or anything, but people take on kind of roles within the community. And he started working underneath a woman who came from a line of Cherokee healers. Wow. And started learning herbalism. So they would go and spend the days foraging plants, making medicine out of them. And that's where he got kind of really into herbalism.

Now, also, when he was there, he was living, like, in a goat barn. Like, on the... The other sex sounds nice. I would like a real bed and, like, a shower. And, like, a flushing toilet, maybe. Oh, yeah. That's a must. Yeah. Yeah. A shower. You know, we're not much of a... No. No. Campers, you could say. Listen, you...

Me either. We need the glamping. That was Drew's story. That was Drew's story. But we love that for him. Yes. We love that for him. Yes. So I met him when he was planning to move to New Orleans. He was thinking about moving to New Orleans, and then he went to a Reiki session, and his Reiki healer was like, listen, I know I'm not a psychic, but I think you're going to move to New Orleans. Oh, wow. Just out of nowhere? Yeah. Oh, interesting. I love when that stuff happens. And he was like,

And you were waiting for him. So then he came down and then I was just waiting for him. Oh, that's so sweet. His friend had, it was like three in the morning. You know, bars don't close in New Orleans. No. It's like three in the morning and his friend, he was like, I see him from across the bar. I decided to go hit on him.

And he was like, oh, yeah, I'm just waiting on my friend who I'm supposed to be staying with tonight. I just got into town. And I was like, who's your friend? Already jealous. Yeah. And he's like, oh, it's Brad. I was like, Brad who? He's like, Brad Doshbach. I was like, listen, I know Brad Doshbach. It's three in the morning. He's not coming. I've got a guest room. Why don't you come back to my place? Oh, we love the forwardness. I know. Totally forward. I'm like, sure. Yes, I'm there. What's your sign? I'm a Libra.

Oh, my boyfriend's a Libra. What's your moon in rising, if you don't mind me asking? I have no idea. Okay, well, we'll find out later. Yeah, we'll find out. There's got to be some fire in there or something. Yes, we love the forward nature. We do, we do. And then the rest is history. He moved to New Orleans and then he eventually moved in with me.

And at that point, he'd been starting to study more herbalism from a more formal standpoint, studying Western herbalism. And we actually turned the front room of my house that fronted a major street into an apothecary where he would work with plants and see patients. Wow. Oh, wow. What would people primarily be coming in for? So a lot of it was like regular like –

a lot of pain a lot of anxiety um and then there were certain patients because drew did at this point he'd already been working a lot with cannabis and working with it you know from living on the farm so he was incorporating cannabis into this um which is not something there wasn't even a medical program at the time in louisiana so he was also actually working you know with um

With patients that were going through cancer treatment, that were dealing with severe stomach issues like IBS and Crohn's and stuff like that. As well as even some children with seizure disorders and things like that. And at the time, I was for a long time working as a publicist in PR. And a couple of my clients became his client, you know, and we had this one client.

mutual friend who was like, guys, it's like going legal in California. What you're doing is so cool. Like, why don't you think about California? Like going out there. Of course. And I don't know. I'd kind of been like reaching a point in my career where I was like, I needed to figure out what was next. And Drew had been in New Orleans at that point for two years, which is probably the longest he'd been there.

anywhere in a long time. He's like such a nomad, you know, like totally. So he was like, yeah, I'm ready. Let's do it. Did you come to LA first or did you go to San Francisco or we went straight, we came straight to LA. Okay. And when he was doing the herbalist in new Orleans, were you involved in any of the growing process as well? Or just kind of just watching all of it in my house. That's amazing. That's great. Yeah. At this point where you guys like,

let's work together on something or are you just like, I have some clients? When our mutual friends said that and we started thinking about what it would mean to try to actually turn it into a company...

Because Drew was doing that, running the herbalism practice and the apothecary. But he was also working in bars and restaurants at night. He was a mixologist, like really high level, like James Beard Award winning cocktail programs. Oh my God, a great person to be in a relationship with. Literally, like if you could pick one. He's doing really cool stuff.

And so it was like he was doing that, you know, and so we're all trying to figure out like what we wanted to do and what it would look like for us to work together. Yeah.

And then we decided to just make the leap and kind of moved to LA, almost sight unseen. We didn't really have like a big network. Well, sometimes that's for the best for LA, you know? Yeah, just jump in. So you just don't overanalyze it. You're like, let's just go live out the dream. And my job allowed me to like work remotely for a while and do that. So it was also, we had like a little bit of a, at least like landing pad. It wasn't like...

I was able to still work. Right, right, which is nice to have. While we were figuring things out. A little cushion. Yeah, a little cushion. Absolutely. So when was kind of the start of Drew Martin as a brand? So we came out here and really pretty quickly we met. We started making connections within the industry. Honestly, our third week here is when we met who our co-founder is now, Nick. Wow. Just recently.

like got connected via mutual friends and hit it off in such a huge way and became not only, you know, in this business together, but we're best friends. And it's the best thing. It's so much fun. It really is. People always are like, how do you have a business with your best friend? And you're like, how do you do that?

Like, how do you not? Yeah, truly, I can't imagine. It's great. You know, I was talking to someone the other day who also runs a business with his partner. And he said, I call it being all in on life.

I love that. Isn't that good? I love that too. It's so good. Yeah, I think there is this perception that it's like, it's harder if it's with your partner or with your friend. And it's like, I mean, have you experienced any of that? Or do you think it's, you know? You know, there's obviously challenges with it. It's a whole, you know, mix. Because you lose a little bit of the separation piece. You lose the piece where you're like, you know, when you go home to your boyfriend or whatever, like,

If something was bad at work, like you can kind of leave it there. Totally. And it's kind of hard if you've both gone through the bad thing at work. A partner is different than even working with a best friend. Oh, yeah, for sure. That's a whole other layer. Yeah. But then even with your best friend, it's like, oh, cool. We're all.

we're going to go to this party this weekend, but we actually had a really awful like something. Right. Yep. It complicates it slightly. It complicates it a little, but also you get these higher highs that are really fun too. I mean, yes. Celebrating something with your closest and the feeling of building something with someone that you already have a close personal relationship with is really special.

That's amazing. Yeah, the wins must just feel so amazing to both of you. Yeah, it makes everything really, really fun. Yeah. So when you started and you're kind of like getting momentum, what sort of...

Like, were you like, oh, this is going to be hard to break into. We don't like, we're seeing some challenges. We're expecting some obstacles. Like what was. Just real quick. Was this recreational at this point when you guys are in California? We moved here in 2018. Okay. Okay. Okay. Just it had, I think January 1, 2018 was when the recreational program like officially started. Okay. So you're like time to party. Time to party. So, but yes, with yours. Yeah. Struggles with that. Yeah. Was it, you know, what were the sort of obstacles? Yeah.

I mean, there were obstacles that were both, you know, like business obstacles, specifically like the cost of getting a cannabis business up and running with the level of regulation is beyond. I can't even imagine. It was so crazy. And trying to figure out, you know, how do we do that? How do we fund something like that in a sustainable way? How do we, you know, do it smartly? Yep. Was all...

You know, that it just kind of threw it forced us to create a business plan for something that was different than, say, if we were like, oh, we just want to create a T-shirt brand. We can sell them online. We can do this. It's super easy. This is like the amount of the amount of red tape that you have to go through in order to start a cannabis business. And it's also so new. Like people have been creating T-shirt lines forever. But like this is very new and a lot of steps.

Yeah. A lot of steps. So that was certainly difficult. And then, of course, from the more cultural side, what we were really interested in, and it's something we touched on already, was just that how do we create a product and how do we create a brand that is actively breaking down stigma, you know, which is also just a whole different, you know, approach to things. Yeah.

then at that point, we're not only just making a cannabis brand, we're making a cannabis brand that some people aren't going to like. You know, that people entrenched in the industry are...

aren't going to like as much and that we may face some pushback there. So we're looking at, you know, how do we find like-minded people within the industry to build with and to build alongside and to work together? It was a complicated process. And I'd say we moved here in 2018 and started working on it immediately. We launched, we were ready to launch right in April of 2020.

Thank God you did. Yes, thank God we did. But also, you know, we had just, you know, we just finished a photo shoot that was completely all about the joints being a social joint. Oh, God damn it. Of course. It was all like people... You're like, share it, kiss. Exactly.

And that's what the whole photoshoot. I mean, we just had like a mountain of assets of, you know, beautiful girls and boys like sharing joints at a party. Totally. And then it's April 2020 when we're launching. Well, thankfully people were probably like, we don't care. We'll just take any that we can get our hands on. We were so, so lonely, so sad. Which is super fair, but we just had to like scrap.

all of that scrap all you know of course it was all dinner parties and stuff like that and that's right when when drew and Nick and I were developing our friendship the way that we kind of started because we were all interested in the cannabis industry was with dinner parties and Nick is a chef he's a trained chef he worked at Jean-Georges in New York he went to the Culinary Institute and

We need to hang out with you guys. I know. Not to invite us to everything. We do. There's a dang puck here. And so he's a trained chef and also a sommelier. Wow. Perfect. And Drew, of course, has the whole cocktail side and with the joints. So Nick would set, they would set a menu. Drew would do a cocktail pairing. Nick would do the wine pairings. And then there'd be a joint paired to each course. Gorgeous. Stop it right now. We need to start doing this.

And we started hosting these dinners. And that's how we really built our friendship and how we kind of built the comfortability with each other to like, let's go into business together. For sure. And when we were launching the company in 2020, we were like, oh, yeah, let's do dinner. We're going to do dinner parties. We're going to find chefs, though, and we're going to do this. But it's going to be the same concept. These beautiful dinner parties, small, intimate things. We're just going to do a bunch of them.

And of course, all of that had to get scrapped too. We just had to throw all of it away. To be an entrepreneur in a pandemic. In the pandemic. We ended up actually, though, pivoting in doing a really cool thing that we called them salons, virtual salons. The LA Times actually wrote a really nice write-up piece on this that we did. But what we would do, and this is like right at the beginning. This is really April of 2020. We made these boxes that...

a cocktail, the pack of joints, a cocktail paired to one of the joints, and a dessert paired to one of the joints. And then we would...

find a host, like a producer or an influencer or something like that, and have them invite 10 people. And we would hand deliver these boxes that had this fresh cocktail, all of this. And then we'd get everybody on Zoom that evening at like 7 o'clock. And everyone would, we would do a little pairing, walk them through a pairing. Everyone would smoke the joint together. And this is like really early pandemic. That's so cool.

That's community. Yeah. That's so nice. What kind of desserts would be in there? Oh, my gosh. They were actually, like, so gorgeous. We did one that was, like, a rose, like, a filled ganache that was, like, a filled chocolate, like a ganache-filled chocolate. One that was that one with the rose petal peppermint.

Oh, yes. I love that one. There was like a really beautiful like ginger chew, like a patafui, like a ginger patafui. Yeah. The ginger lemongrass is my favorite. I know. I love that. That's Drew's favorite. That's Drew's favorite one. It's so good. And it's like my stomach's feeling a little bit off. Yeah. It's like a Sunday morning. I'm like, let's just like it like eases everything. Yeah. Settles the tummy. That's what's really cool about the introduction of the botanicals as, you know, complimentary to the cannabis.

Yeah. So how did you decide on all of those botanicals? Because they're so interesting. Explaining what, how that sets your joints apart from others who might not know about it. So, you know, the, our joints are really kind of like, we talk about them like spliffs, you know, in a lot of the world. And, you know, Drew spent a lot of time traveling. People mostly roll tobacco and hash together.

is like the primary way. Reminds me of college. It's the way that people mostly like, like a lot of people enjoy cannabis throughout the world, throughout the Middle East, throughout Europe, like that. Totally. It's very harsh. Yeah. Harsh for the lungs. Heavy. Yeah. And we make spliffs, but they're cannabis. And instead of with tobacco, it's with these complimentary, all organic botanicals. And the idea behind them is that we're complimenting

Both the flavor profile, which is where, you know, Drew's mixology background comes in, but also not just flavor, but function, which is where the herbalism side comes in. So Drew is looking at starting with the plant, starting with the cannabis plant and with the particular cultivars that we're working with. All kind of all plants, not just cannabis, have these...

chemical constituents called terpenes that are the ones that are really influencing that what that knows though the what you smell when you're smelling cannabis but they're not just in cannabis it's like the limonene that is really high in the in most in a lot of sativa strains is the same thing that gives a lemon it smells

You know, it's like the same chemical. This is the science I can get behind. Super interesting. Exactly. It is super interesting. And so Drew is looking at the terpene profile of the cannabis flower that we're working with and then how it could be complemented by the terpenes that are in these botanicals as well. Kind of like imagine like making a cocktail.

It's starting with a base spirit and then looking at what can be incorporated to really focus on that sensation, the mouthfeel, the flavor. And it's so nice when you're done smoking it. You can just feel it on your lips. It feels so refreshing compared to other joints. And it doesn't stink. Exactly. It's beautiful. Your house doesn't smell after you. You can keep all the wind.

Well, the windows close and it's like, oh, just like lit a candle. Yes, truly. Yeah, like an incense. It's so cool. It is so cool. And then the other side, of course, is like that functional side. So when we're looking at working with like a sativa strain, you know, when Drew wanted to pair that with ginger, lemon balm, and Damiana, you're already talking about an energizing cultivar selection. And then when you pair that with ginger, which is super uplifting and energizing, Damiana, which is also like an aphrodisiac.

Oh, okay. Or on the flip side of that, when we're working with an indica strain that is, you know, maybe has a more intense body feeling, complementing that with the aromatherapeutic benefits of lavender, that's a super relaxing thing.

Yes. And it heightens what that what the just effect of the cannabis would be to also have that that botanical complement to it. So that's what it really comes down to. Like, how do we build? How did how does Drew look at building these for the flavor element and the function?

So cool. There's just so much thought into it. It makes me like even more excited to be smoking your joints because it's not only like, oh, I'm getting high. It like truly feels like there's so many benefits and it's so well thought out. There's a lot of intention. Yeah. They were definitely crafted and conceptualized with a lot of intention behind them. Yeah.

Yeah. And for our listeners that might not know the difference, and I'm actually kind of curious too, because I know like indica versus sativa. Indica is like a little bit more relaxing and sativa is a little bit more uplifting. Like what's the actual like scientific, like how are they so different? So that's a great question. The, you know, essentially what we're talking about here is like different like breeding and leaf shapes essentially that have created these

Classifications that aren't necessarily realistic at this point. These are classifications that are widely accepted nomenclature now to describe essentially a suite of different characteristics of the plant from size, leaf shape, time to maturity, as well as the classic terpene profiles, smells, and effects that accompany those.

Theoretically, I would say we're not even very... And when we originally launched the brand, we didn't talk about Sativa versus Indica versus anything when we first brought the brand to market because we were like, oh, we don't necessarily believe in it that much. We don't like it. Unfortunately, like...

that's where the market is and it's where the consumer is and it's where the stores are at. Interesting. So we needed to end up bringing much more of that language into the brand and we did a rebrand about a year ago that brought a lot more of that into it. So it's a little bit more for marketing? It's definitely a marketing. These are definitely marketing pieces. Do you think it helps people like

people to identify and kind of know like an experience that they're going to have more it's almost like shorthand like you know for it's a complicated plant with a lot of constituents that like we were talking about hasn't been studied that much you know the the effects of terpenes and this and that like

And in the end, we're not like the goal isn't to, I don't think, make every consumer like a fucking terpene scientist, you know, like no one needs to know that. Let me just smoke the damn thing. Let me just smoke. How do we get? We like to have a little bit of education. But in the end, it's like, OK, generally, is this terpene profile and the way that this plant is grown and where it comes and it's and it's a genealogical lineage conducive to this type of plant?

For sure. And we try to steer away a little bit from promising effects and more towards what we say on our packaging is like, this is the intention associated with the product, which is more about you as the consumer, as the user of the product, putting yourself in a mind space that's complementary to what the constituents of the plants can produce.

I think that's it because I truly think with any drug, especially with weed, what you go in with is what experience you're going to get. And everyone's body is so different. Like how that, a sativa may react to me could be so totally different than how Claire reacts to it. It's just like, there were, there's like products in the market where it's like, Oh, if you buy this one, it's for aroused. And this one is for pleasure. And it's like, what? I,

Eating an edible in college that was like, this is supposed to make you super horny. And I was like, what? How can you tell that from anyone? And it's also, it's like, cannabis affects people differently. Everybody's endocannabinoid system is different. And it's like, for me, when we were talking about getting too high, I don't love edibles highs.

And when I do take edibles, like a can or something like that, faster onset, 2.5 milligrams. A can or two over a period of time is like definitely my preferred mode. Oh, yeah. I can't go over. I've never taken over a five milligram for an edible. That's so crazy to me that you've never taken over five. I'm so sensitive with an edible, but I can smoke a joint and be totally fine. But yeah, an edible, I just have to be careful.

Yeah. Yeah. The way that, and like personally, the way that I like use cannabis outside of like, you know, sleep and stuff. Drew, Drew has like a joint every night,

bed. Love. One of our indica lavender joints. But when for the most part for me it's about like making healthier choices around mostly alcohol consumption. Yeah. So it's like how can I stop me like OK maybe let's not at the dinner party open a second glass of a bottle of wine like let's pass a joint around.

I feel the exact same way. It's such a nice option to have where you're like, do I want to be hungover? Do I want to have a headache tomorrow? And it's like weed does not have those. It's not going to happen to you. You're going to feel great in the morning. Drew actually is really... Drew has a great line about this where like...

Alcohol is an intoxicant. The reason that you feel like that your psychoactive state changes is because you're being poisoned, essentially. Like that is a release of toxins from your liver. Cannabis is not an intoxicant. Cannabis is an inebriant.

the actual, like, the effect of the plant is that it has a psychoactive change. Right. That it changes your psychoactive state. It is not a byproduct of it poisoning you. Right. And a reactant of, like, I would feel like mind opening instead of, like, mind closing where you black out and you don't remember anything, you know? Well, alcohol is very much that, like, what did I say? You know, when you wake up in the morning, what did I do? Who did I offend? Like, you get that anxiety. And I think right now, too, we're seeing such...

Such a movement in like, ooh, should we be drinking as much as we are? How can we be conscious about it? Exactly. What else can we do? And listen, Drew loves alcohol. Oh, for sure. And like we both do. Like we are, and you know,

And Drew really talks about, too, like alcohol comes from plants as well. You know, just because it's an intoxicant, it still comes from plants. And it's still coming from, you know, it's still another expression of the kind of magic of plants. Yep. Which is what Drew's really all about harnessing. So he loves it, especially like loves mezcal, like really into agave spirits. So good. We actually went to Oaxaca a couple years ago and did...

Like a full, like went to all these different producers of mezcal. Distilleries? All these distilleries. Oh, cool. But it's like very like rudimentary ones. Like you're talking about like, you know, they're out in Oaxaca doing it like with by hand. That's incredible. In like a copper still. Wow. Or in a clay still. That is incredible. Do you think you'd ever go into liquor? No.

I mean, no, I don't think so. Yeah. We're kind of really into the weed business. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. No kidding. What has been your experience as a queer man in the cannabis industry? So, I mean, the same type of stigma that we're talking about breaking, like the cannabis industry and probably what you think of as a cannabis consumer is like straight white dickheads.

Totally. And that's what the whole industry really feels like. Yeah. And coming in as a queer person is definitely not necessarily a really... It hasn't been a comfortable experience. Oh, I bet not. We've definitely found allies throughout the space, and I wouldn't say that we've ever been in a situation where we faced outright hostility. But, you know, it's just one of those things where the vibe is certainly not queer. And this is despite...

a very queer history of cannabis legalization. This is how it always goes, right? You know, like, yeah, do you mind expanding on that a little bit? Because I actually don't think I know that much. For sure.

And this really goes back to, this comes back to, I mean, California has been leading the way in cannabis legalization for, you know, since the beginning. And it goes back to San Francisco. The first cannabis, the first piece of cannabis decriminalization legislation was, ended up being passed by Harvey Milk. Yes. Weeks before he was assassinated. Wow. Wow.

But behind the scenes of that was a man named Dennis Perrone, who was a cannabis advocate. He was a cannabis dealer in San Francisco and a political activist who was pushing for it. Now, this then dovetailed directly with the AIDS crisis. Then we go into the 80s, and in San Francisco and New York specifically, we're just like the epicenters of the AIDS crisis. And now...

no one knew what was happening, you know, an incredibly scary time. And it's also during the Reagan administration. Not helping at all. Who wouldn't help and was simultaneously running, you know, just say no campaign about drugs as well. Do anything.

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Meanwhile, cannabis was really one of the only palliative measures that was effective in treating patients that were dealing with the side effects of the AIDS virus. Oh, interesting. So, you know, it was just an incredible pain reliever. Yeah. It allowed people to eat the same way that it helps people with cancer. It was a...

a palliative treatment for a group of people that did not have any other options. And Dennis Perrone's partner actually became sick with AIDS and died, not after being like,

not after having their house swatted, police raid over cannabis. It led Dennis Prone to start the first Cannabis Buyers Club, like that whole movie where trying to treat patients. Working with, there was an incredible woman named Brownie Mary who would sell cannabis brownies. And she would go in and work in the hospital and stuff like that. And so she was arrested four times.

Wow, would she like slit people brownies? Was that kind of the start of like the weed brownie cookie sort of thing? I mean, it existed before. Yeah, yeah. But like Brownie Mary was the one who... She popularized it. She put it on the map. And like really became an activist for these patients that were dealing with it. Thank God for her. Wow. And then Dennis Perrone ended up being, you know, the author of the medical bill that allowed for medical cannabis in California that then led to, of course, recreational use. Amazing. So you're talking about like a...

community that led this fight um and there's very few people in the cannabis industry now that are representative of that history yeah um and you know we're we're some and we're lucky to be here um

But it's pretty rare. We're also lucky that you guys are here. We really are. We're very lucky for that. And I had no idea about all of that. How do you think the stereotype of the white stoner dudes started? Was that from movies and media? Why was that always such the center of it? That's a great question. Definitely movies and media. Because that would be, I mean, frankly, just like white men have been in the front of movies and media. Yeah.

Of course. No one else had a chance. Yeah, exactly. So it's just kind of like they get to be everything. But yeah, I, I, that it's an interesting question and one that I, I,

I don't know. I actually can't even imagine. I don't know. - But also it's probably like white men are typically making legislation. So it's like if they're doing something that all of a sudden they decide isn't bad for them and that they can profit off of, then they'll be at the forefront. But they keep everyone else behind it, of course. - Oh my gosh. And that's been now the story of the larger question of legalization across the country and how it's, you know, like John Boehner on the board of one of these large multi-state operators.

It's all quite cynical and gross. But we're all for increasing access to the plant. Yes. Drew still talks with some of his patients that are now in Georgia and Alabama and stuff like that. It's like they still don't have any access to the plant. They still don't have it. And we take it for kind of granted now. I know. If cannabis was something that really helps you, you could just go to pretty much anywhere.

the store oh i can walk to three different stores from my house for sure and i don't really also remember a time when i couldn't like i was trying to think about this the other day i was like did i used to have a california yeah yeah i grew up in san francisco oh my gosh and i was like what did i use how did i used to get it i was like i think i had a number yeah

Well, we had to use a number when we went to Texas not that long ago. It's so crazy. You like called up a drug dealer. Listen, I mean, it is still the majority, almost the majority of sales in California are still on the illicit market.

That's crazy. Despite the amount of access that we have. Because, frankly, I mean, you're talking about San Francisco. We all live here in Los Angeles. But three quarters of municipalities throughout the state of California have outright bans on cannabis businesses. So you're talking about many, many, many places that are not even being able to be served by dispensaries. Right.

I had no idea. Because they're local. Same. Because of the way that the legislation works here, in order to get a state license to do anything with cannabis, you need to also have a license from the municipality that you're working with. And municipalities have an option whether to allow cannabis businesses or not. Wow.

Wow. Gosh, we just really live in a little bubble. I know, we do. I'm like, we're very lucky. We are. And this is actually a question Claire and I were talking about, about advertising with weed. Oh my gosh. Like, how does one, like, are there very strict regulations with what you can put on your social media? How you can collaborate with other companies? Yeah, there's strict regulation across everything. I would say that most probably the...

The biggest hurdle has been the... You were gated off from using any of Facebook's marketing platforms. So we can't do, like, Instagram. We can't boost Instagram posts or do Instagram ads or do anything like that. We can't do it. We can't do it on Facebook. Twitter, just two months ago, started opening up to cannabis companies to be able to advertise. Pretty much the only paid...

Routes that have been available have been outdoor advertising, which also, as of about a year ago, changed to certain, if a highway connects to out of the state, you can no longer advertise on that highway. Oh my gosh. But you see alcohol advertisements in front of- Theoretically, you couldn't advertise on Santa Monica Boulevard. That's crazy.

Wild. It's insane. So you can't do that. You can't on Instagram and stuff, you can't talk about anything. You just have to be like roundabout with whatever you're discussing. And we touch on TikTok as well. Yes. We have tried. We have tried. We've tried to make some montages because we smoke a lot on the podcast. That was kind of the start of the whole thing is let's get high, let's get a cocktail and chat. Yeah.

And, yeah, we've just been shut down. Yeah, it is absolutely unfriendly. And that's because the federal government still treats this like it is heroin. Yep. In the eyes of the federal government, in the eyes of the Department of Justice, and any of these large media platforms that also, to some extent, have contentious relationships with the government.

Wouldn't want to give them any reason to come after them right if they started taking money from cannabis companies Theoretically that could be open them up to action from you know the IRS or the Department of Justice or whichever You know, we actually still as a business. There's a really interesting things for cannabis businesses. It's awful. It's called 280e Which is a tax code that says that we are not allowed to deduct business expenses. I

So we can't write off payroll. That's our favorite thing. That is our favorite thing. We say that with like everything. Yeah, exactly. We are not able to write off any business expenses except for, and this is the funny part, except for the weed.

So we can write off our cost of goods sold, the actual weed that we buy to put into the product. We can write that off, but that's it. Well, that's also very intentional by them. For sure. Gosh, that's crazy. Yeah, so you're just kind of screwed across the board. Yeah.

in the industry right now. But there's a group of people, you know, there's even a group that we were talking to recently. It's like the Cannabis Media Council that is trying to kind of create a set of guidelines for cannabis companies and media companies to make it so like that everyone feels comfortable advertising cannabis. Yeah, like let's work together. If we all do it this way.

if we all follow these guidelines together, then we're going to bring on partners like Hearst and Conte Nast and stuff like that. And if you're working with us, you can kind of get onto these platforms because you're vetted, because you're following this set of standards. Right. Well, hey, meet in the middle. Yeah. I mean, like we're all on the same team. Everyone wants to get high and everyone wants to get paid. Yeah, exactly. That's true. That's a T-shirt. Yeah. Good God. Well, we have a little...

We do. Before our time is up that we've created for you. It's a little this or that. And then we're going to ask you a final question after we're done with this or that. You want to take it away, Tess? Shall we begin? Yes. Okay, well, I know we were just talking about this, but sativa or indica, if you had to choose, if it was real. If it was real. Because now I don't believe it. With that, sativas. Okay, same. Same. Bull or bong? Bong.

I actually remember at summer camp, I made a bowl, but I had to like disguise it. Oh, what'd you make it out of? It was like, well, it was like clay. It was like in the clay studio, but you had to make it look like not a bowl. So I made like a lizard with like a really big lip and like big eyes. I hope you still have that. I know, I'm like, please sell that. I do, it's at my parents. My parents still have it. Oh, that is a nice question. Manufacture it. Yeah, it'd be like a little holiday gift. Holiday gift.

I love that. It weighs like a full pound. Do you, have you ever gotten like way too high, high off of a bong rip? Oh my God. I mean, it,

Do you smoke weed if you have not? Yeah. I mean, I haven't done it for a long time. I don't know if I can go back. Yeah. Like a gravity bomb. Where your body's just like, what did you just do to me? Scary. Scary. I also love a bowl. Yeah. Yeah. Why not? It takes me back. Yeah. My boyfriend and I smoke a bowl maybe like once a week. I don't even think I have one. I'm a joint girly. Yeah. We actually just got these, there's this incredible company that's based out of Paris that

creates these beautiful design objects. I'm going to have to send you a picture of this and the name of them, but they make this beautiful little ceramic pipe that is so nice. We have it displayed on our coffee table right now. I know, it's just so beautiful. It's just like art. I agree. There can be ugly ones, though, too. This is true, like anything. Yeah.

Edible or joint? Joints. Same. Joints forever. When you have the munchies, sweet or salty? Oh, salty. Like almost all the time. I'm a big savory snack person. I am as well. God, I'm like, give me both. Like I need to switch off. Like a little sweet and salty, I love. Like kettle corn? Yes. Like pretzels? Or like an ice cream with pretzels situation. Yes, I love that. You know, Drew actually doesn't like sweets at all.

I don't know what that's like. Except for ice cream. I don't know what it's like either. I do like dessert. Except for ice cream? He loves ice cream. That used to be me up until two years ago and something in my body switched. I used to not be a sweet person either and then... And now you are.

Love it. Can't go back. He doesn't love ice cream. I just had, they're not in here anymore, but on the way over here, I ate two of these, like, you know, C's. Oh, of course. Okay, they have these, like, peppermint, like, they're like peppermint patties, but they're hard. I know exactly what you're talking about. I love C's candy. They're so good. Oh, my gosh. Nick's mom had, like, a big display of them at our house, and I, like, grabbed a handful of them, and I ate two of them on the way here.

As you should. As you should. Gorgeous. When you're high, do you want to watch a funny movie or a thought-provoking documentary? Oh, funny movies always. Yeah. Funny movies, sitcoms, something old as well. Yes, like a comfort show. Yeah, like definitely a comfort movie or something like that. Though actually, I also do like to watch scary movies. When you're high? When you're high, yeah.

Andrew. Okay. Wow, you're really going for it. I know. Yeah, I really like to commit to the bit. Yes, of course.

Oh, man. Oh, yes. And then would you prefer to lay in bed all afternoon or go on an adventure when you're high? Oh, in bed. I don't like to be in public. I don't like going in public. That's a private. A high walk is my favorite thing. Yes. As long as you're not as long as I'm not talking, having to interact with anyone. Headphones in. Sunglasses on. Hat on sometimes. Yeah. And just like take in like every flower is brighter at

It's just beautiful. Like a good soundtrack. Yes. Okay, I will say this. One thing that we do like to do is like, I don't like to get high and then go do this, but when we go on long, Drew and I love to hike. We love to go on long hikes. And when we're hiking, like normally we will like smoke a joint when we get to like the top.

the top. That's it. And then it changes your whole second half of the hike. It really, yes. Being in nature as long as I'm with people. Yes, but otherwise we're in bed. We're watching Housewives. We're not talking. We definitely are. We are scrolling. Scrolling Housewives. I am very deep into TikTok. Same. I'm like, it's been four hours. Get off the phone. Where am I? Exactly. But our final question that we ask all guests

If you could smoke a joint with anyone in history, dead or alive, who would it be? History, pop culture, your life. Oh my gosh. Okay. For me, it would probably have to be the artist Robert Rauschenberg. It's a weird answer probably. No, we'd love that. I know you're... Yeah, I don't know. He's a visual artist. He's dead now. He's a queer man who made...

art in the 60s through 2000s when he died in New York and then later down in Florida. But it was like the first I'm really we didn't even talk about it but I'm really into art really visual art worked in. That makes sense for the brand. It's just so artistic. And he was the person that like got me into art. It was the first museum show I saw where I was like what?

And then ever since then, I've worked with museums and worked in museums and galleries and stuff like that and always been really into it. And he's the first one. And I've continued to just learn more and more about him and his work and his career and his influence. And I would love to smoke a joint with him. Oh, that's a great answer. It'd be the most interesting conversation. You guys can make something. Yes. That is a great answer. And I almost met him once. My dad's a lawyer, and my dad took a case just because he was going to have to depose him. Oh.

And he took this case. For you? Yeah, because he was like. Oh, that's so. That is love. That is love. That's so sweet. And then I had plane tickets down and everything to go. And then to go meet him. And then he died. Oh, no.

Oh, God. That's heartbreaking. Hey, in another life. Yes. Catch him in another life. Exactly. Andrew, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much. This was such a treat. I think our listeners are going to absolutely love this. Oh, I know they are. It's something we've never even talked about before on the podcast. And, you know, we love to be educated about the history and the queer history of it all. Yes.

I'm appreciative of it. I'm appreciative of you guys creating, you know, like offering this platform to at least share with people, especially like during Pride Month about, you know, one, about the plant and continuing to destigmatize that and make it something that we do just talk about. Of course. And also about the, you know, the intersection with queerness and

So thank you for doing that. Oh, of course. We're honored. And where can people find you guys? Oh, my gosh. Okay. So in California, if you're down in Southern California, we are available at MedMen's, Sweet Flowers, Northern California, Apothecariums, statewide delivery via our website, DrewMartin.co. And in New York, we are available in the city at Housing Works, Union Square Travel Agency, and Gotham. And...

statewide for scheduled delivery via Legacy Dispensers, which is based in Albany. Gorgeous. And soon to be across the country, we hope. Yes, we are manifesting it. Fingers crossed. Right now. And we will link your socials and everything. So everyone go get one of the most, the most. The most gorgeous joint. Gorgeous joint you'll ever smoke. We are smoking them every day, all day. That's right. And thank us later. Thank you, Andrew. Thank you. Thank you.