Patty Hearst...When Theater Kids Go Too Far
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Welcome back to Write Answers Mostly, a podcast on what you didn't learn in history class, but you really wanted to. My name is Claire Donald. My name is Tess Palomo. We are so excited to be back with another week, Rammies. We sure are. How are you guys feeling last week after Ashley Madison? We got some interesting topics or conversation starters, if you will. And it was so interesting seeing people's – because we did a poll. If you don't follow us on social media, at Write Answers Mostly, we did –

A series of questions being like, you know, what do you think really about cheating? And it was so interesting seeing everyone's different boundaries. I know. Some of you guys have really hot takes. I know. I'm like, whoa. Okay. And some of you guys shared your own personal stories with us. We do love that. We love when we get the tea. Yeah, of course. It's what we live for. History is just gossip. We love gossip. Of course, honey. Tess, how are you? I'm good. We are spray tanned right now. Oh, yeah. Have you got it?

Just always makes me feel so much better. If you guys are watching on YouTube, we are on day one of a sprains hand. So you know that can be kind of shocking. We've got to let it settle. The text history between Claire and I is literally, there's like eight different photos throughout last evening and this morning of just parts of our bodies that looked kind of crazy. Yep. And this morning I woke up and like my hand was a completely...

Completely different color than the rest of my... It was scary. But I've been prepping for this since I was like 14 years old. So... Claire is like the spray tan guru. I've been getting spray tans not as long as she has. Like probably for...

Six years? Seven years? And still to this day, I'm like, what do I do? When do I shower? What can I put on my body? I've got all the answers. One day when we write a book, there will be a chapter on spray tans. And like the art of it and like the complexity. Alice, our friend Alice has said before, knowing all the logistics around spray tans, it's women in STEM.

It is so complicated. Like, there are certain, like, you can't wash with soap. You can't use Dove soap. Ladies, if you're using Dove and you're getting a spray tan, cut it out. You're wasting your time. No, you're wasting your money. Yeah, truly, truly. Yeah, it's true. It's science. And that's what you learn here on Ram. Exactly. But besides that, I'm good. I'm going into Fourth of July weekend. That's very exciting. I know by the time this comes out, we'll be all said and done. Exactly. So we're going to have a, I'm going to have a little backyard thing.

and then I'm going to go to San Francisco to visit my high school friends and see Noah Kahn on Friday at the Greek Theater. Noah, if you're listening right now, shout out. Yeah, Noah, do you still listen to this? Yeah. You've listened to a few episodes, I think. You're following us on Instagram. Yeah, so I'll see you there. I'll be on the back.

Please wear a crew neck or a crew neck on stage. For the love of God. And then, yeah, I'll just see all my high school girlfriends meet their babies for the first time because everyone just had babies like two or three months ago. Tess, I'm at the phase of my life right now where everyone on Instagram, and I love it, guys, all my friends who have babies, but every single thing is a baby. Babies are everywhere. Babies are having babies. And sometimes our TikTok algorithm gets into like birthing videos. Have you been on that side? Tess, when I pulled it up,

yesterday it was a woman doing a bathtub birth out of nowhere and like wow the beauty of life truly but like those guttural screams the screams are we searching that on I am not searching it but I will watch them and I think that's why the algorithm keeps promoting it because I'm just like

I'm really fascinated by people's birth stories and like what happens in there. Totally, totally. Like what it feels like, what you got to do. It's crazy. Tess and I obviously follow us on TikTok at Right Answers Mostly. So we share a TikTok account. So there will be things that pop up on our algorithm that we'll text each other and just be like, you good? Yeah.

But truly sometimes it's just like, oh, and sometimes it's like, do I text about it? Totally. Sometimes you just have to let it settle and let it. Because you never want to like cross the boundary. Of course. And sometimes it is just random stuff. Like that time that you were like, are you going through relationship issues? And I was like, not at all because like a lot of relationship stuff kept popping up of like, these are red flags. So I don't know how that got on there. Well, maybe it's coming from inside the house, you know? Yeah.

I think that we probably could have ruled that one out. I see. I see. Yeah. I was like, what the hell is this? And I was like, this is crazy. Self-reflection does wonders, people. That's right, Claire. But yeah, how are you? I'm good.

I'm good. I'm actually one of the only one of our friends that are in town this weekend. You know that I love that. I love it when we are like the only ones in town together and we can just you're not in town this weekend. Oh, but I'm gonna be in town for a Thursday. Okay. Well, what's the 4th of July? But that's true. We'll be partying together. I'm gonna have to fend for myself.

out here on the streets this weekend. That is true. But we'll see what I get up to. But everything's good. I am still just hopping around. You guys know if you listen on Premium, which check out our show notes, you get two bonus episodes a month.

Where I'm going on my single girl journey, and I'm loving it. I'm loving it too. Yeah. Things are happening, so that's good. I'm going back home to Arkansas soon, and I cannot wait. That's just going to be so lovely. Arkansas in the summer is just unbelievable. I'm going to take you with me one day. Don't you worry, baby. When? Maybe for your 30th is this year, so we're not doing it. Yeah, my 30th is quickly approaching, so we got to plan. Crazy.

Whenever you are ready, I know that you have birthday hesitation sometimes. I do. But I'm like ready to abandon that hesitation this year. I think, yeah, I think you no longer need to have that fear. You know what I'm saying? I think that I know exactly what you're saying and I think I've rid myself of it. Exactly. So like now it's just to have fun. Exactly. And to be the people that make you feel good on your birthday. There's going to be nothing holding me back this year, honey. There's nothing holding me back.

We're going to be singing through the whole episode. The last episode, we did sing quite a bit. Sometimes it's just like... We have to. Yeah, you can't hold yourself back. There is nothing holding us back. Our King, Shawn Mendes, will tell us. I love you so much, Shawn. But no other major updates in my life. Well, Tess, with that all out of the way, I'm scared.

I'm scared. Why? For our subject today. This is a subject, I say this every time, but it's like so exciting to just have such a great group of listeners that are always sending us in suggestions on our Instagram at WriteAnswersMostly. This one has been suggested a lot. We are covering...

The Patty Hearst kidnapping scandal. Oh, so it's kidnapping. There is a kidnapping in here. I'm going in blind, baby. So I have texted Tess on a group chat with her mom and on a group chat with her brother, both like asking them questions about this and then be like, but don't say anything, which I could have just like not had Tess in the text. Yeah.

But I just wanted her to also be teased with it. Yes. You like to tease me with these things. I do. Because you literally texted me being like, you are going to die. But I can't say it. And I was like, you know how painful that is for me. It's so painful. But it's also painful when you're researching not to share it with your best friend. This is what during our re-release of The Donner Party that we were talking about, which was cracking me up and being like, sometimes I feel distant from you during week

Weeks of research because we can't talk about everything. We can't share anything. It's all about like the shock factor. But Tess, with the Patty Hearst case, the kidnapping, what, so what, do you know anything? I literally don't know. And is this Hearst Castle? This is a part of the Hearst Castle, correct. Okay. So I know Hearst Castle, but don't know the correlation. Where is the Hearst Castle? Is it San Jose? Is it in the back?

It's in Northern California. Actually, I can tell you right now it's in San Simone, California. I don't know. I think that's where that is. I don't know where that is. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. But I know about that. And then that is like really it. Wow.

Well, I love that because we are going to go on a wild ride, Rammies. So buckle up, Buttercup. Buckle up, kid. Here we go. Okay. So my sources are Stepfather Wikipedia. There's this website called ATI, all that's interesting. And then I got most of my info from a CNN doc that

titled The Radical Kidnapping of Patty Hearst, and then also a CNN article. You like All That's Interesting. You've used it a few times. I have. Didn't you use it for something else where I was like- It's popped up. It might have to go in the family tree. Somewhat. Wow. Okay. We'll see if All That's Interesting pops up again. Okay. Maybe if it's like one or two more times. Yeah. Maybe All That's Interesting is courting me. Maybe they're like my boyfriend right now. Oh.

Yeah. It's like a casual hookup. All that's interesting is my casual hookup. You guys have hooked up twice, and I feel like you're curious. It's like, we're going to see where this goes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

So, okay. Who knew that hookups would be a part of the family tree? But such is life. It just has to keep growing. It does. It does. I do want to give a little trigger warning in the beginning. We will have discussions, especially towards the case in the end, dealing with sexual assault and sexual violence that comes up in this case. So if that's something that you're not really wanting to be involved in today, we totally understand. And we will catch you next week.

But to us, without further ado, here we go. Okay. So Patricia Campbell Hurst is the granddaughter of newspaper tycoon William Randolph Hurst. She became known for the events following her 1974 kidnapping by the Symbionese Liberation Army. She was found and arrested 19 months after being abducted, by which time she was a fugitive wanted for serious crimes committed with members of the group. Okay.

Whoa. That is truly not what I was expecting. I know. When I tell you that you're going to be shooketh by this whole thing, I can't believe this happened. And I do believe it's Symbionese. Yeah. Which I like, what is that word? But Symbionese liberation, SLA. Okay. Okay. So who is Patty Hearst? Patricia Hearst was born on February 20th, 1954 in San Francisco, California. Okay.

She's a Pisces. Okay. At first I was like Aquarius for sure, but now she's Pisces. So like on the verge of Aquarius. Yeah, yeah. We love a Bay Area girly. This is a Bay Area story. Well, that's why when you text me being like, do you guys know this family? Yes. And I was like, do we know this family?

Yeah. And Adrian, Adrian asked, usually people ask like, oh, the Hearst Castle. Yeah, yeah. Which I was unfamiliar with. So she's the third of five daughters of Randolph Apperson Hearst and Catherine Wood Campbell. So Patty's grandpa was publishing tycoon William Randolph Hearst. We owe him a lot because he practically invented tabloid journalism. Like.

Like the gossip magazines, he was responsible for that. Like Us Weekly would not be around if it weren't for this man? Absolutely not. So thank you. Thank you for your service. No kidding. He like was the one who was like, let's put on crazy. I'm sure celebrities hate this man now, but like crazy titles and like make it really salacious and all that stuff. His story actually inspired Orson Welles to make Citizen Kane.

Citizen Kane is based off of him, which I've never seen Citizen Kane. It's one of those movies that a guy that's trying to date you in high school is like, do you want to watch Citizen Kane with me tonight? And you're like, yeah. And they're like, let me tell you about filmmaking. 100%. And if you're in an acting class, they're like, you're not an actor unless you've seen this movie. Hey, guess what? To all the bros and the acting teachers, I've never seen Citizen Kane, Casablanca, or The Godfather. Wow. Talk about it, Claire. Talk about it.

Talk about it. Men do not own those movies. And there's other great movies too. That's right. And also, have you ever seen like season five of Summer House? Like talk about cinema. Talk about psychology. No kidding. And relationships. No kidding. So just a little fun fact there. So William Randolph Hearst, her grandpa, was the son of a successful miner. So already we have like wealth, generational wealth. Jesus.

And then his dad gave him the job as the head of the San Francisco Examiner at age 24 in 1887. Damn, 24 running the Examiner. Hot. Nepotism. Nepotism. Nepotism, but still hot. Yeah, still hot, of course. And so he created the idea of crazy headlines and sensationalizing stories on people. He ended up acquiring a ton of newspaper companies and

Jesus Christ.

Nice. Billy and Honey. I love these subjects about like wealth. Wealth. Because it's just so fun. Yeah. So the Hearst is like California royalty, okay? The Hearst family is. Her family owns the Hearst Castle, which is on 270,000 acres in San Simone, California. So I don't know if that's the same Hearst Castle as everyone's talking about. Can you go? I don't know. I didn't know. Everyone's like the Hearst Castle. I'm like, where was I? I don't.

No, I don't. If your family has like a castle of any sort, then like you're good. You're great. And then today this family still owns like newspapers. They still own the San Francisco Chronicle. They are a part of Cosmopolitan magazine, Esquire, Good Housekeeping and cable channels. They have stakes in ESPN, A&E, Lifetime.

Sheek. Cosmo? Cosmo. We love. I mean. So they're very rich still. So Patty comes from a very affluent family. She's the middle of five daughters. She grew up in her own words and in affluent and sheltered environment and enjoyed a childhood that was, quote, pretty perfect.

It was a childhood of long green lawns, large comfortable houses, and country clubs with swimming pools and tennis courts and riding horses. I like how she said houses. Houses. She's like, all of my houses are great. Plural. Patty's dad, so his name was Randolph, but he goes by Randy. Why is Randy showing up so much in our lives right now?

He did not have a mullet, but God, you know he wanted one. Of course. But I'm sure his dad didn't let him. He's like, look, gotta be a man. Yeah, exactly. Gotta cut off that little rat tail. Poor thing. Poor Randy. You gotta let the Randys just fly. You have to. So Randy treated Patty the most like a son out of the five daughters because she was very tough compared to the rest of them. They would go hiking, fishing, hunting. She didn't get along with her mother as well because her mom was very much like a southern belle. Oh.

Yeah. Got five daughters. Five daughters. How little women are them? No kidding. I mean, that sounds like a dream to me. I know. But God, a lot of... Estrogen. A lot of estrogen. Yeah. Yeah. That is a lot. But so fun for them later in life. Truly. Yeah. I'm sure her dad was like, let's try one more time for a boy. One more. Always. And then you end up with five kids. Exactly. Exactly.

So she also had a rebellious side. According to the New York Times, an expert witness for the prosecution during her trial later on, which we will see, testified that Patty had experimented with LSD and marijuana and had sex at an early age, which like she was growing up in the 60s and 70s. So like obviously. In San Francisco. Like she was just a woman. Essentially just taking like vitamins. Exactly. But they did say she even lied to her teachers at high school about her mother having cancer to get out of a test, which we don't play with that.

No, no, we don't have to become pathological liars that early. She was just like a wild little thing. She was raised primarily in Hillsborough and I kept these schools in to see if you knew any of them. She attended the private high school Crystal Springs School for Girls and Sacred Heart and Sacred Heart in Atherton. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. A bunch of my friends went

friends went to Sacred Heart. Okay, so that's what I was like. I was about to take it out. I was like, I want to see a test nose. No, Sacred Heart. You know my friend Manuel. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He went there. Oh, my God. And then also Santa Catalina School in Monterey. I don't know if you know anything in Monterey. Monterey is like a little bit. A little further. Yeah, further. Okay. So, yeah. So she went to a bunch of private schools. Crystal Springs also. So the campuses look like they're just gorgeous. I can't even imagine. I mean, the fact that like growing up in California that you guys had outdoor campuses is crazy. Yeah. And these were like really

Rich. Oh, we love that. So Tess, while she's in high school, 16-year-old Patty met Steven Weed, who was then a 23-year-old math and geometry teacher. At the school? Mm-hmm. Oh, God. Oh, God. There are ages that I think are probably too young to be teachers, especially with other high schoolers. Talk about it. What do you think the minimum age should be? Like 30. I think so, too. Because when you're in your 20s, like –

It's too close. So he's a 23-year-old math and geometry teacher. He also taught guitar. And Patty decided that she wanted to learn how to play guitar. So she kept showing up to his guitar classes. And Steve was like, she kept finding ways to talk to me. And then eventually she showed up at my house for math tutoring. And that became a regular thing. What grade was she in? She's 16. So like a sophomore? Yeah. And then Steve changed.

tutored, I'm saying in quotes, Patty and Math, and the two eventually began a relationship.

And in the doc I was watching, one of the guys was like, they say she was 16. But like after doing some like backtracking, she might have even been 15. And both Patty and Steve's narrative is that Patty was the one pursuing him and not the other way around. He literally said, quote, I would have never initiated something like that. But I was receptive over time. They act like they're these helpless, like she came on to me and I had no other choice but to date a 15-year-old. Exactly.

Like, it's called no. It's called don't be attracted to teenagers. It's called having boundaries of what's appropriate in your relationship with your students. It's like you're not going to take responsibility for that at all. Just like, eh, I was sitting here. Yeah.

She kept showing up. What was I to do? It's upsetting. So she attended University of California, Berkeley. She moves in with Steve when she's 18 in 19, I said in 91, 73. I'm going to assume that's supposed to be 1973. We got you. Yep. They get an apartment near Berkeley, near the Berkeley campus, and her parents are not happy about it.

About them living together? Yeah. And I think about them dating. I mean, I think one, probably the age shift, like the age and the fact that he was her teacher. And then I think probably be the fact that he was a teacher. I think they're probably like. Like you don't make enough money for her girl. A hundred percent. It's like the notebook. Exactly. Her mom was like, he's trash, trash, trash. Not for you.

you. If you don't know, that's where it comes from. Because she's literally like, he's poor. Yeah, exactly. We should post the clip on there. Yeah, we should. So Patty was starting to get over Steve when they moved in together. I think she's starting to like the shine is starting to wear off for her. Always tough. Yeah. But she also didn't want to get out of it because she didn't want to prove her parents right. So she's kind of like, I feel kind of stuck here with him. She's going to cheat on him, isn't she? No. She's going to get kidnapped. Oh, okay.

Okay, you either cheat or you get kidnapped. That's one way to get out of a relationship. So on February 1st, 1974, they're living in this two-story townhouse in Berkeley. Oh, God. Okay, so she's paying for like everything? Yeah, I would assume so, probably. So I guess Berkeley at the time was like a little seedy. Yeah.

Berkeley did not become like, ooh, you live in Berkeley until probably like 2010, 2015. Oakland's kind of the same way, right? It's more up and coming. And now it's insane real estate. But Berkeley used to be very chill. Exactly. So there was, I guess, a lot of petty crime around their –

like where they lived. And one day a couple showed up at their house and Steve, her fiance said they seemed a bit sketchy. They were just like asking about rentals around them. But Patty and Steve kind of brushed that off as like, I don't know, Berkeley things, Berkeley people. Yeah, exactly. But Patricia wrote in her autobiography that in the days before her kidnapping, she could quote, she quote, could not shake off this heavy oppressive feeling that something was not right.

Although she did not know at the time she was being followed. So three days later on February 4th, 1974, Patty and Steve finished having dinner. They're watching a TV show. They're getting ready to study. And there's a knock on the door. Oh, God. Always scary to get a knock on the door. Have you guys seen the movie The Strangers? I think there was like another movie that just came out. But that is the scariest movie I think of all time.

Of all time, Claire. Because it's so real. Were you scared when someone knocked on the door when you were a kid? Of course. Like, the scariest thing. Still now, it's like, don't knock on my door. No. Call me. You're coming in here to kill me. Exactly. Exactly. And in this case, not wrong. So there's a woman standing at the door and Patty, Steve answers the door. Patty was in the kitchen, but she could hear the woman say that they had hit a car and they were asking to use the phone. Okay.

No. Yeah. And with that, people just burst into the apartment. So two men push Steve back shouting, get your face on the floor, get your face on the floor. They start kicking and hitting Steve. They tie up and gag and blindfold Patty. And at this point, they demand to know where

where the safe with the money is. So Patty and Steve just think this is like a robbery. And Steve said he remembered hearing the woman say, they've seen our faces. We have to get rid of them. They take a bottle of wine, like a full bottle of wine and start bashing Steve's head with it. And Steve said his eyes filled up with blood. Ugh, I know. So Steve manages to get up, but he's so like out of it. And he's just like running around and like knocking over furniture in the apartment, just like trying to get out.

He runs out the back door, jumps the fence, and bangs on the neighbor's door. And he knew they were home. But I think he said that they didn't answer because they were so scared of, like, this chaotic door banging. I mean – They didn't answer their door. I don't know if I would either. Same. Like, again, you have to keep yourself safe. Exactly. So no one answers. Exactly.

Patty Hearst is kidnapped. They throw her into the trunk of a car and drive her to a hideaway south of San Francisco. And it turns out that she was kidnapped by a small, violent, revolutionary group called the S.L.A.

So Tess, who is the SLA? Who the hell are they? Who the hell are they? Also, do you think she was mad that like he left her to go find help? I mean, like I get the... I had that thought too. I think that they were both probably just in such survival mode that like, I don't know.

I don't know. No, I know. It's like, what are you supposed to do? Your eyes are also filled with blood. Like how helpful are you going to be to like help her? Exactly. So in Berkeley, California at the time, we're at the end of the 60s. It's the counterculture movement. You know, kids are becoming more radical. Some activists, including students at the University of California, or sorry, at Berkeley, began focusing on prison reform and tutoring inmates at local facilities. Didn't

Do you guys have a program like that in school? We did. With like the theater? Yeah. One of our theater classes like went to a prison and we would do like theater stuff with some of the inmates. I actually think that can be really healing. It was.

I have mixed feelings about it. It felt very like we're a group of mostly white kids coming in here and being like, this is what we're learning. Let's do it together. And then we leave and go party and have these very privileged lives. And then on the other hand, there were some beautiful moments and connection. And some of the inmates liked it and some were like,

You guys suck. Yeah. Well, that's actually a great point. And that's very much what was happening here. While Steve and Patty were going about their normal life, the SLA was starting to form in prison. The SLA formed from people who met during prisoner outreach programs. And students would go to this prison in Vacaville, California.

And sort of act as teachers, but really as political organizers. So the volunteer program was intended to have college students help educate inmates on a variety of classes and prepare them for life after prison. And it was made up of mainly white student activists. That feels about right. Yeah. What I experienced. Exactly. And so one prisoner in this prison really stood out as the leader of the political group in the prison because also...

these prisoners would start to develop their own thing. And his name was Donald DeFreeze. And he had been out of prison his whole life. But what had landed him in prison the last time was that he beat up a sex worker, stole a check from her, and then tried to cash it. And then he got caught. Well. So wouldn't say he was the most stand-up guy. Yeah. Karma's a bitch. Yeah. No kidding. No kidding.

So Willie Wolf was an upper class, upper middle class kid from Connecticut who went to Berkeley to try to be an archaeologist. But then he becomes radicalized and he becomes a part of a group that spent their time in the prison. He becomes friends with Donald DeVries, this other kid who is also in the group, Joe Romero and Russ Little. And so they're hanging out. They're like, the world should be different. Let's make a plan. And then Donald's like, I got to get out of here.

I'm going to make a plan. Oh, God. So Donald escapes from prison on March 5th, 1973 by walking away while on a work duty in a boiler room located outside the perimeter fence. So he's like outside the prison. So then he just like walks off. Oh. Yeah. And this is the beginning of the SLA because then Donald's like, I got to go to my bros in Berkeley that we've always been talking about this. Always back to the bros in Berkeley. Exactly. So they kind of wanted to be –

Like, they, I think, wanted to kind of form a group like the Black Panthers. But the SLA is more like a band of misfits. But it was led by Donald DeVries. The SLA grew to include nearly a dozen members, mostly middle class white kids who didn't have background in politics. But Donald DeVries was the only black member of the group. He goes there. Donald comes up with the name the Symbionese Army. It's taken from the word symbiosis. Symbiosis.

which means a body of dissimilar bodies and organisms living in deep and loving harmony and partnership and the best interests of all within the body. It's yeah, it's basically like we're all equal here, but it's mostly white people, but it's mostly white people. He also came up Donald to freeze with their logo, which is a seven headed Cobra and each head on the Cobra represents like seven values of like what they want, which is like peace, love, harmony, all that stuff. They focused on things like feminism, anti-racist, anti-capitalist and others and,

They wanted everyone to live together peacefully. They commit a horrible crime even before kidnapping Patty. So during the fall of 1973, Donald is a fugitive. So he has to hide out in their hideaway. He can't be out in the world. And he's like stewing. He's getting antsy. And one night on TV, he sees a piece on the Oakland superintendent of the schools, Marcus Foster.

So Marcus Foster was a little controversial at the time because he was trying to have a police present in the schools and establish like an ID system. And the concerns from other people would be that the police would be there to control the students and not protect them. So Donald decides that Marcus needs to be killed.

Because he just wants the police presence in the school. So one night, Marcus Foster is walking to his car from the school board meeting and Donald and the SLA members shoot Marcus point blank in the parking lot. I thought their whole thing was like peace.

Exactly, Tess. That's what I'm like. You guys are idiots because you say you want all these things, but you're acting crazy. And then you're murdering people. Yeah. It's like they feel, well, we can do it because we stand for the greater good. But if other people do it that aren't in this club. Right. And it's like, well, it's a sacrifice for the greater good. It's like, no, that's not the way the world works. You're talking crazy. Exactly. You're acting crazy. So they take credit for this murder right away. Oh. Yeah. They put it in the paper. And it's the first time that anyone had heard of the group. They're proud of it.

They put their name and their logo and like a press release. Yeah. And also, Tess, the bullets that they used to kill them were cyanide tipped.

So, like, poison bullets. And the police were like, we've never seen anything like this. It's so painful. Yeah. Like, more painful. Because, like, even if they shot you and it didn't kill you, it would eventually kill you from the cyanide. So, like, they knew, like, they wanted attention. And now everyone knows who the SLA is, but they don't really know who they are, like, what they want. Right.

So, one night in January 1974, a couple of months after the murders, two members of the SLA were driving. They get pulled over by a cop. The cop and the two members ends up in a very close shootout. And it's just so crazy already. They both miss it.

So the two guys get arrested and in their van, they had a bunch of illegal weapons and they also had printouts of their symbol. So immediately they tie them to the murder. Wait a second. Yeah.

So they're like, okay, you guys killed the superintendent. We're going to arrest you. They were a few blocks away from the house also, from their hideaway. So all the remaining members were like, fuck, our guys have been arrested. We need to like...

burn the place down to the ground and get out of here. So they doused their whole house and like 20 gallons of gasoline and light it on fire. But all the windows were shut and someone closed the garage door. So it basically suffocated the fire. And so then the police get to their hideaway, like to try to find everything. And basically everything's still intact. Yeah.

Oh, so they're not that smart. They're not that smart. You're not that pretty. You're not that bright. So the police are like, okay, this is where their hideout was. The police also find this book full of list of people to potentially kidnap. Guys, be a little bit more discreet. Tess, they find this list. Like a burn book? Yes, like a burn book. And they have Patty Hearst's name on there.

The police never reach out to anyone who was on that list to be like, hey, guess what? This like radical group has your name on a list. Like run. Yes. They never warn anyone. I don't know. Yeah.

So, like, they think, like, they... Why? They could have... Like, this whole thing could have been avoided if the police would have gone and told those people. Did they just not take it seriously? I guess not. I have no idea. They didn't explain that more in the documentary. Huh. So, they had Patty on their list because they saw her engagement announcement in the San Francisco Chronicle. After their friends were arrested, they were like, we are going to take one of...

because they had taken ours as like a thing. Oh. So at this point, the SLA consisted of three men and five women. All white people except for Donald, all younger. How dare the girlies? I know. It's always like, what the hell? What were you guys thinking? Yeah. So they were like...

Patty Hearst is the daughter of an extremely wealthy family. And in their mind, that's the enemy of the people, the wealth, right? Her family was in control of the media and they viewed their media company as propaganda for the United States government. So she might be innocent, but that's also a symbol because Joe and Russ who got arrested, they're also innocent. So they're like, since they took one of our innocent, we're going to take one of their innocent. Oh, Lord. But Tess, this group...

Was also full of actual theater kids. This is what I texted you. I was like, you're going to die. I...

You're going to die. So Bill, Emily, and Angela were three members of the SLA, and they came out of the theater program at Indiana University. Stop. Yes. Stop. And in the doc, they said it's at this time that theater had a very political component, which I'm also like, when has theater not had a political component? It's always talking about the times. It always is. And so this was known as guerrilla theater. They believed in using theater as exposing the contradictions in society and recruiting people for their cause. Oh, my God. This sounds like my college major.

I know. I also spent a summer at Indiana University. Really? Mm-hmm. Oh, my God. This story is so connected to you. I know. I was like, oh, wow. So one idea they started to discuss, instead of killing people like they did with Marcus, which is like crazy. Take it down a notch. They were like, why don't we kidnap someone and use them as a living pawn to symbolize the nature of our revolution? It's like a real-life play. This is why theater kids

can be so dangerous if they like do not work out their shit. Like if you need to do the work because then you start to like want to kill people. Exactly.

Exactly. And it's not okay. And that's exactly, and they're like, it's for the craft though. Oh God, you guys like do some therapy. Theater kids can be so dangerous. They can be so scary. You really can. Don't fuck with them too. Like don't bully them. Do not because this will happen. So that was their reasoning. That was a big long story of how we got to, we're going to kidnap Patty Hearst. So it's all because they're theater kids. It's all because they're theater kids. God damn it.

So, Patty's been kidnapped. News gets out immediately of the kidnapping. Berkeley has a small police department, so they were like, this is a case for the FBI. They're like, we're so high right now, but we're going to try to figure it out anyway. Exactly. So, they call up the FBI and they're like, hey, please come help us out. But also, it's like, this would be like if Elon Musk died.

daughter got kidnapped yeah it'd be crazy it would be crazy oh which one doesn't he have like 10 kids yeah he really does which is wild to me because he had kids like before even meaning he had a whole other life yeah it took more than 48 hours for them to hear from the group who had abducted their daughter during their search the parents had held multiple press conferences outside of their hillsborough home it was their only way to communicate with sla and ask for patty's safe return

Where does the SLA like call in to be like, we have your daughter? So a few days after the kidnapping, they release a letter being like, yeah, we have her. And our demand is that you have to publish all of our communication. So I think they would like send letters to the house and stuff or like drop them off. I don't know. And like, yeah, I'm always like, how do they do that without being traced? Yeah.

Great question. Because they had a very hard time finding them. But they released the letter and they're like, you have to publish all of our letters and read them on the news or we're going to hurt Patricia. And if authorities try to rescue her or harm the SLA in any way, Patty will be executed. They're like, read it like a monologue. Yeah.

Literally. And they sign it, quote, death to the fascist insect that preys upon the life of the people. Okay. We're not poets here. Well, and also it's like preys on the life of the people. You're literally the one that has someone kidnapped right now. That pro-

So Patty immediately knows who the SLA is when she finds out that these are the people because of the superintendent being killed. So that would be freaking scary. She's like, I hated you all in high school. Yeah. I was really popular and you guys were weird. You guys were theater kids. Oh, this is their greatest revenge. Truly. So she was put in a closet and blindfolded and her hands tied behind her back. They kept her in a closet for nearly two months. Yeah. Yeah.

They interrogate her for days on end. A former SLA member said they didn't plan on having her for very long. They were like, we just wanted our guys out and we thought it would be an easy exchange. So they're not really thinking any of this through clearly. If she had her blindfold on, they would have their mask off. And if she had her blindfold off, they would all have ski masks on. So she isn't seeing their face. What?

So they were like feeding her? Yes, they would feed her at one point. We'll see this. Like she, when they had her mask on, Patty was like scared to eat anything.

Well, yeah. And so one of the SLA members would eat before her, like eat her food and then give it to her. Like take a bite. You take a bite to show her it's like not poisoned. That is so scary. So scary. I'm having food panic even thinking about this. I know. And like water panic and bathroom panic. All of it. How did she go to the bathroom? I think they would like – they would watch her and like lead her. I mean she's just truly a prisoner. Oh my god.

So on February 12th, 1974, eight days after the kidnapping, they released a tape of Patty speaking. She said, and she says it. So I'll try to post a video on our Instagram. She's like, Mom, Dad, I'm okay. Her voice, I'm so sorry. Her voice is so annoying to me. That's a horrible thing to say about like a kidnapper.

Hey, it's your truth. Do you think she had any Stockholm Syndrome?

Tess, it is so interesting that you bring that up. Graham has taught me everything I know. I know. So we will be talking about Stockholm Syndrome in this case. This case tries to use Stockholm Syndrome at the end. Because I'm kind of like, is she like, I like them.

You just keep that in your back pocket. This is what this whole case is, baby. Wow. I know. This is actually a very Ram episode. We are going to see a lot of things from different subjects in here. Yep. So they finally make a demand, and it's very much a product of theater kids because it's very theatrical. Oh, Jesus. Yep. The SLA made code names for each other, by the way. Of course. Also, my character. Always. I'm like, just bring in some swords, and then we're good. And some capes. Okay.

Of course. And then we have got our theater production. Donald DeVries calls himself Sink. He gets on the recording tape and he's like, before we negotiate anymore, the Hearst need to do something big and something good. The SLA demanded that the Hearst family distribute $70 worth of food to every needy Californian in a four-week period, an operation that would cost an estimated $400 million in the 70s.

Yeah. Do they even have that money right now? SLA thinks that they have that money. The Hearst family, actually, they did have that money. But the grandpa, when he was setting up his business, he didn't let any of his sons control the family wealth and the business because he didn't trust any of his sons. Probably smart. No kidding. So he has like managers throughout. Like wealth management. Wealth managers controlling all of this family's wealth. Yeah.

So does Randy have direct access to that cash? No. And he's like, I'm fucking trying. Literally. But the SLA thinks that they do. So while this is all happening and Randy's trying to figure out how to get this money.

The SLA is telling Patty that her parents don't care about her, that the police don't care about her, that the FBI doesn't care about her. And like apparently Donald DeVries is like also threatening to kill her. But he's like, yeah, you're safer here than with them out there, which is what happened in Stockholm Syndrome too when he's like – If you stay inside. Yeah. We're here. We don't want to hurt you. But the police are trying to hurt us and in turn you. Yeah. Exactly. Oh my gosh.

So she was allowed to leave the closet for meals. Again, like she was initially afraid to eat, but they're also showing her. And I think that they're like trying to show her some, I'm saying in quotes, kindness of like, I promise you it's not poison. Well, a little bit goes a long way in that situation. Someone like...

Hey, are you okay? And you're like, I love them. Exactly. They're so kind to me. Because your world has been completely turned upside down. And you're having like sensory deprivation. Exactly. So Patty also starts to interact with three SLA members that were assigned to her. Willie Nelson. Willie Nelson. Willie Nelson. Guys.

Surprise! Willie Nelson. I'm so sorry. Willie, Nancy, and Angela. Patty was very cooperative with them. And the SLA starts to respect her more because of that, too. So they're all starting to be like, you know what? Like, she's kind of chill. Like, for a rich girl, like, she's fun. Exactly, Tess. Were any of them hot? Yeah, actually. And the SLA member who's, like, surviving, who was on this doc, when they were showing younger pictures of, like, all the guys, I'm like...

Homeboy could like get it. In the words of Bella Hadeed. In the words of Bella Hadeed. Sorry, Alice, I know you hate that, but I love it. And then, Tess, the

The SLA start to explain to Patty why they're doing this, why they kidnapped her, why they started this group. They're like, this is for the greater good. We're trying to make a difference here in this world. They would give her literature that she would have to memorize. They would teach her what the seven headed cobra stood for. They wanted to make sure that she understood what the group was about so that when she was released, she could spread the word.

Oh, God. They're brainwashing her. Yeah. And something they are. And something unique about the SLA is that it was mainly women. Like there are three men and there are five women. And they were all self-professed feminists. They talked all about empowering women. So now imagine a rich girl who's a little rebellious in the late 60s, early 70s being around peers, being like, hey, guess what? Women are not second class citizen. You actually deserve your rights. And she's like, I like it in here. Yeah. Yeah.

And I hate it out there. Exactly. Wow. Yeah. And then part also for the group is that they're like, we're getting rid of monogamy and we're all just going to sleep with each other.

She's like, give me some LSD. And she's like, bye bye. What was your boyfriend's name? Steve Weed. She's like, I'm missing one bit. I don't think she, I don't know. I don't know what her story was, but. Yeah. She's ready to have a good time now. Yeah, exactly. It's just like, again, you're alone, you're in survival mode. And then people start saying things that might sound a little interesting to you. Yep. Yep.

February 16th, 1974, another tape is released of Patty speaking, which also, imagine this. Imagine you're her family. She's gone. And all of a sudden, you're in a room and there's a tape with your family member's voice on it and you have no idea what it's going to say. Like, imagine how they must have felt every time they got a tape. Oh, my God. Like, is she going to be safe? Is she going – like –

who knows oh my god can you imagine no also again picture like this was Paris Hilton who got kidnapped by a radical group it's crazy crazy she sounds safe and she says on the good faith measure which is like the food thing that they're supposed to be doing she's like just do it as quickly as possible I'm okay as long as the demands are met she said I'm being held as a prisoner of war and I'm being treated in a

So don't listen or believe what anyone else says about how I'm being treated. Everyone should stop acting like I'm dead. Because her mom at one point in the press conference is like wearing black and she's like, mom, stop wearing that black dress. It doesn't help at all. You look stupid. She's like starting to be like, I'm good here. So just do what they're saying.

I know. Oh, my God. Yeah. And then the SLA starts training her how to use guns. Oh, my God. They were like, we wanted to show her that we didn't want to harm her, that we were training her. And also, we didn't want her life to be in jeopardy if the police come in. So they start training her to use guns. They're like, this is the stage combat era. Every actor has to go through it. We've all been there. Exactly.

So then on February 27th... Or sorry, 22nd, 1974, 18 days since the kidnapping, Patty's dad, Randy, obtained the loan and arranged the immediate donation of $2 million worth of food. And they create a charity called People in Need. So it's like...

Like over basically overnight from like a kidnapping, there's like this social service that's created. Okay. Which is, I mean, that's great. That's great for them to do. Yeah. But like we said, you know, he, he doesn't have all this money that they think that he has. The best he could do was put up $500,000 of his own money and convince the Hearst foundation to give $1.5 million towards the food drive. Hundreds of phone calls and volunteers come in like offering food, time and money to help the efforts. Yeah.

So this is like a citywide thing that's going on. And then food starts flowing into these enormous warehouses, millions of dollars of food that they have to distribute over time with like hundreds of volunteers. So then they start to try to distribute the food and test. It becomes...

chaos like there people just start like i mean i can imagine it starts a riot like it's really bad and also like the volunteers just start like throwing eggs and like food and stuff at people it becomes a shit show and at some point the sla gives patty a tv and a radio in her closet so she could keep up with the news of the kidnapping the sla was obsessed with their coverage

Because of course they were. That's all that they're living for. Exactly. So they see the chaos of the food donations and they were like, we know likey. You guys fucked up with that one. Oh no. Oh no. They're not happy. But they were like, but they did go.

Kind of listen to us with our demands. So give us $4 million then. This is a dangerous game. This isn't going to end well. Well, Ronald Reagan was like... He said something that I thought was so shitty because he was the governor of California at the time, which Ronald Reagan said something shitty. Oh, color me surprised. No kidding. So he was governor at the time and he was like, we do not negotiate with terrorists. And so he was pissed that...

The Hearst family was doing it. But it's also like that's their fucking daughter. How do you not negotiate with terrorists? Same. I've never understood like – I don't – yeah. I mean I get like – I get it but also like – I get it but how do you not? But like don't you guys kind of a little? We definitely do. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

I don't want to go down any further down the subject. But I'm always like, yeah, I know. But also it's like Ronald Reagan, your daughter's not trapped in a closet right now. So I think you would do anything that you could to get your daughter out. Exactly. He said of them donating the food, he said that he hopes anyone who got the food from the program got botulism, which

Which is also like, that's so cruel to the people who are needing food. I mean, this doesn't... Isn't that so representative? Yeah. Yeah. They were like, give us $4 million. Randy goes to his board members and he's like, please give me more. And the board members are like, we can't give you $4 million to maybe get Patty back. Well, because then this is just going to keep going on and on. Exactly. And like, we didn't even get her back the last time. So it's going to be a no. So then Randy has to make a press conference where he's like,

The SLA's demands were way beyond my financial capability. Therefore, the matter is now out of my hands. Uh-oh. And that's like a really poor choice of words. If you're Patty watching that and your dad goes, the matter is out of my hands now.

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Yeah. And they said like Steve Weed was like, that was just the only mistake he really made throughout this process. I think he was just overwhelmed and it just came out. Yeah. That doesn't sound. It sounds like he's like, you got her now. Yeah. She's going to suffer from some daddy issues after this. Exactly. So Patty sees this and she's like, what the fuck? She thinks her dad had abandoned her. She didn't understand the situation at all. So then another voice recording comes in from Patty. Yeah.

And Patty on this one is just different. It's been 33 days since the kidnapping on March 9th, 1974. And she's like, Dad, I don't believe you're doing everything in your power to help me or that you're doing anything at all. Pull yourself together. And they said, he's like, God, I'm so stressed out. He's like, I just missed my daughter so much. He's like, I'm so scared. I'm not sleeping. I'm not eating. Literally. And she's also like, I know we have the money because she also doesn't under, she's

She's a rich girl that's like, we probably have bajillion gazillion dollars. Exactly. And you're just not wanting to give it. So she's pissed. So over time, she starts developing this like a stronger relationship with the three members who were dealing with her. And that's so again, it's like Stockholm syndrome. That's so unusual for the circumstances that she's developing like a friendship with

with her captors. Classic. Classic. So the FBI is doing everything they can to find her test. They're panicking. They consulted four psychics. Oh, God. The FBI is really, like, at a loss. They're really struggling. I got to go to, what's her face? Alison Dubois. Alison Dubois. Literally, she has, like, her electronic cigarette and she's, like, three at this time. She's like, Patty Hearst will never fulfill you. No, that's. Three psychics? I'm dying.

They let a prisoner out of jail who said, if you let me out, I'll find Patricia Hearst. So they let him out. And he was like, just go. Just go and run the streets of San Francisco. Yeah. So shock is not shocking at all. They never find her from that. The SLA moved to a smaller apartment.

It's like a studio apartment. There's nine of them in there. They move on the same street where the FBI's offices were. Well, sometimes it's smarter to like hide in plain sight. And that's exactly what they did. Patty had been confined in the closet for weeks. Then they have a meeting in the main room. She's still blindfolded, but none of them have their ski masks on.

and one of the former SLA members that was on the dock said that they posed a question to her. They were basically like, you're no longer a prisoner now. We're going to release you somewhere safe if you want to go. We understand that you don't want to go home. That's what they said. So we can release you somewhere safe, or you can join us and fight for our cause. And when asked for her decision, Patty decided to stay and fight with the SLA. Okay.

And the blindfold was removed and she was allowed to see her captors for the first time. The hot guy like takes off his ski goggles and she's like, oh, they're rather pretty. Yeah.

Can you imagine though? What if you did take off your blindfold? Like it was someone so hot being like, hell yeah, I'm staying. I'm like, you've been here the whole time? Yeah, like I'm staying for as long as you want me to stay. I'm kidding. So Tess, Patty is a part of the SLA. Patty, you dirty dog. On April 3rd, 1974, two months after she had been abducted, she announced on an audio tape that was released to the media that she had joined the SLA and had adopted the name Tanya. Oh.

Oh, no. Not Tanya. Tanya's what she's going by now. Her parents are like, where did we go wrong? Can you imagine what her parents must think? I mean, they're like, she's, I mean, they must know that she's brainwashed. They did. They were all like, this isn't her. This is like a psychological, like. Exactly. Issue. And that would be just, I can't imagine if that happened to you. And I'm just like, I'm going. And I'm Tanya. And because of Ram, you would know.

I would be like Stockholm Syndrome. You'd be like, guys, listen to our episode. And while you're there, please give us five stars and a rating and review. Thank you. Tanya. So on the tape, she says, I have been given the choice of one, being released in a safe area or two, joining the forces of the Symbionese Liberation Army and fighting for my freedom and the freedom of all oppressed people. I've chosen to stay and fight.

Oh, Jesus, sweetheart. Then they release a photo of her test. Is she looking good? She's looking hot. Yeah. Well, actually, she's holding a huge gun and she is in front of the SLA's like seven-headed cobra thing and she's like posing with her gun.

It's her new headshot. Oh, no. What does she look like? She's a beautiful woman here. She's very like... Like blonde? She's like a dirty blonde. Oh, she's cute. Okay. Oh, my God. So... Did she get a haircut in there? I think that was just like... Oh, oh. Different pictures. They're like, we are going to give you a makeover if you do want one. We got to teach you stage makeup also. Oh, my God. They're like, have you on the plush?

It's like, you got to do it yourself, babe. We don't have glam, not in theater. No, no. God, you do everything yourself. Yeah. So imagine your family member is kidnapped and then that photo is released. Check out our Instagram at Right Answers Mostly. I'd be so scared. Yep. After she was accepted into the group, Willie presented her with – Willie is the one who was from like the upper class family. Willie Nelson. Willie Nelson from the upper class family in Connecticut. So they kind of connected over that. He's like, aren't our rich parents crazy? Yeah.

It's like they don't get us. Yeah, they don't get us. He gave her a necklace that had a stone that he had dug up in Mexico and she wore it around her neck the whole time she didn't take it off. Were they in love?

Well, that's where it gets a bit complicated, right? Because can you be in love with someone that is your... That has kidnapped you. Right. Exactly. No. No, exactly. So she was given daily lessons on her duties, especially weapon drills. One of the members told Patty that the others wanted her to share in the sexual freedom among the unit. Right.

So the way that one of the surviving members, who was a man, describes what had happened in the dock is that he was like – that someone went and talked to her. And they were like, hey, you know, there are no rules here. Like we all hook up with each other. Is there anyone you would want to hook up with here? And that Patty was like, Willie. She's like, I've been thinking about this for a hot sec. I know him. So then they all go.

And discuss it with each other. And like, well, should we let her hook up with someone? Should we not? They say yes. And then her and Willie go off. Patty has later said that it was non-consensual. Well, also, this woman was groomed by her high school teacher. She has never had a consensual sexual relationship. And you could say that she was kidnapped of her youth and her sexual freedom. So later on, her and Willie develop a relationship.

but can you say that that was ever because she's been kidnapped and brainwashed yeah like so how'd you guys meet yeah literally literally so i'm like i actually don't think that any of that would be consensual of course not right no and i'm sure it was not this is not a stand-up guy that you feel safe having sex with and that was supposed to be like that was kind of the confusing thing i think probably to patty because all of well first it's a group of women and

also they try to use that as defense later. The prosecution was like, it was, it couldn't have been non-consensual because it was a group of women and they were all feminist too and they would never let that happen. And it's like, how is that reasoning? That's so dangerous. And you see that in like Colts and stuff. It'd be like, well, look at the women, like, because women are supposed to be nurturing and maternal and smarter. Yep.

I mean, there's evil. There are evil women out in the world, too. Also, you can be – you can say you're a feminist and also be a predator. Exactly. There's women that I completely disagree with in every aspect of their lives that say they're a feminist. Scary. Would they have, like, orgies? I don't know.

I don't know, actually. Probably. But her eye was on Willie. On Willie. Exactly. Oh, this poor woman. Well, I think that they connected over their background. Yeah. And she's basically like, I did, I pretended so that I could survive. That's what I was doing. So, but the SLA is like, we're getting everything that we want. Like, we got Patty. Yeah.

We got them to donate money, but they don't really have an end goal. But they were like, we've got to show people, like, yes, we've announced that Patty is in the SLA, but we've got to show people that Patty's with the SLA. Oh, God. They're like, we need to have a ball. Yep. So on April 15th, 1974, Patty was recorded on surveillance video wielding an M1 carbine while robbing, or carbine, a big gun while robbing a bank in San Francisco. Wow.

Okay, that's not the way to like announce it. They found, they were like, we are strapped on cash. So we need to rob a bank anyways. But we need to find a bank with surveillance cameras to show everyone. And Patty apparently was like, I'm down.

Because guys, remember, again, like she has been brainwashed. Yes. So she's like, yeah, let's do it. So in the video, Patty identifies herself and her pseudonym, pseudonym, right? Yeah. Tanya. She yells, I'm Tanya up, up against the wall, motherfuckers. She yelled a warning. First person that puts his head up, I'll blow his motherfucking head off.

When a witness asked if he believed that Patricia would use her weapon, he responded, yes, absolutely. Oh, she's down bad. She is down bad. Two men entered the bank while the robbery was occurring, and they were shot and wounded by the SLA. And then the SLA and Patty ran off with more than $10,000.

Yeah. And they that's a layer like we're crushing it. We just robbed a bank in broad daylight with Patty Hearst and the FBI at the FBI. The FBI could not find them. And this is a very bad look for them because they're showing off for the FBI and on camera.

And now, like, the story has completely changed because it's like the storyline of an heiress who's been kidnapped by crazy revolutionaries in the 60s changes because now we have her on camera robbing a bank. Yeah, it's not good. It's not good luck. It's not. And her...

Her fiancé, Steve, in the doc, it's very sad. He was like, I knew she was brainwashed. Her parents do a conference saying that she's the victim of mind control. And then Patty or Tanya releases another tape being like, stop saying I'm brainwashed. That's ridiculous. I'm not. I'm the soldier in people's armies. Or I'm a soldier in people's armies. Oh, my God. Yeah.

Yeah. And she becomes like the face of America's generational divide. Like this becomes a national story because the kids, like the counterculture rebelling against the status quo is like, fuck yeah, Patty, you're fighting the good fight. It's going to be on our carousel. They make a cutout of her picture where she's holding the gun, where people can put their face where her face is. And kids are like lining up on the streets to take a

picture with it. It's just not the right way to go about it all, is it? It's not. And the older, more conservative community is like, she's an example of everything that's wrong with America. You know, like passive parenting that led kids to reject the middle class upbringing. And like, they're just spitting in the faces of the parents who provided everything for them.

Yeah. And the police just have no idea where they are. And the SLA is like, we got to move. So in May 1974, they all traveled to Los Angeles. They're like, we got to get out. Big city. To the big city. Um,

They moved to the South Central area, and by this point, Patty is officially a member, but she will maintain now that she was 100% under emotional and mental captivity. Still, this hasn't stopped her critics from pointing out that throughout the many months on the run, she didn't try to escape or find help. In fact, she appeared to do the opposite.

Like on May 16th, 1974, 101 days since the kidnapping. So she's sitting outside the sporting goods store. Two of the members went in there to get supplies. She's driving a van with it idling. And the two members come back out. The manager thought that they were stealing something. So they get in like a physical altercation. And they're like,

Patty sees this. And yes, Patty did, could have driven off at any point at this time. Instead, Patty sees them at a physical altercation and she picked up not one, but two guns and starts firing at them. Oh God. So now she's killing people. She's trying to kill people. Yeah, exactly. She just like, Oh,

no, she didn't try. No, she sprayed round after round of gunfire at the front of the store until the two other members were able to break free and join in the getaway van. I'm in a getaway car. I met you at the motel bar. Okay. Sorry. It always has to happen. It always has to happen. This is like very Bonnie and Clyde. It went from Stockholm to Bonnie and Clyde. It's like Ram. Just it's a Ram world. It is a Ram world, baby. So she, and also like San Francisco in the seventies, it reminds me of like also, um, what's his, uh,

No. I think it was Jim Jones. Crazy shit going on. It's a bunch of all the subjects you've ever covered. It's crazy. So she said that she was acting on instincts drilled into her by the SLA, which like probably...

because she thinks like these are my people now you know and this is a huge game changer people are like she's not brainwashed because she's like actively participating so this group quickly abandons the getaway car and they steal someone else's car but they forgot that they left a parking ticket in their van that leads them directly to where they live

So the six other members see this on the news and they're like, shit, we have to like move. They move to a house down the street in L.A. The FBI finds the car and they find the parking ticket. So they go to their original house. We did another episode where the parking ticket is what. Did we do one? Yes. It's like on the tip of my tongue where like the parking tickets, how they found the murderer. Who was that? It wasn't Manson, was it? No. I think I was doing it.

I don't know. But wow. It'll come back to us. Yeah, let us know too. Parking tickets ruin everything. Parking tickets literally are the... But I guess this is a good thing in this time. Yeah, that's true. So they go to the house. They're not there because they went down the street.

So the police just start flooding the neighborhood. But Patty and the two other members, they're off somewhere else. But we're focusing on six members right now who were at the safe house. They start just like flooding the neighborhood. One of the patrol units was approached by an elderly lady that was like, are you guys looking for like some white kids with guns? They're like, yes. Bada bing, bada boom. Thank you so much. Yeah. They're like, we are. And she's like, well, they're in my daughter-in-law's house five miles down. Oh.

What a queen. Who's this woman? One of the police officers starts approaching the fourth house. And when they get to the fourth house, they hear a voice ordering people to do things like barricade the front door. So they're like, that's the one. Is it Patty? No, Patty and them are off. Oh, okay. That's important to remember right now. Okay, got it. She's not there. No, they're in a different. Tanya's not home. Tanya's not home. They're in a different getaway car. Got it. The original Ask LA members saw the shootout on the store. And so they were like, move down the street. Right, right.

So the police start surrounding that house. They're like, it's on. They tell them to come out. They don't. So the LAPD released tear gas into the house. But the SLA had chemical gas agent masks. So they were like, we're chilling. They're like, you can keep this up all day long. All day long. We're going to be fine. They release another thing of tear gas. And the police say that the SLA started firing first.

Who knows? There's three sides to every story. Exactly. A major shootout begins. The SLA had a shit ton of weapons and they just go off. And this is starting – this is being – also being televised. Everyone is watching this thinking that Patty Hearst is in this house. Oh, my God. Right? So can you even imagine? So –

Yeah, so hers. Okay, by this point, Patty and the two other members are watching this shootout on a TV motel near Disneyland. They had, I guess, made it that far. So they're also watching all of their friends and their like, quote, family members in a shootout with the police.

The house catches on fire from all the tear gas and all that stuff. Yet the SLA members still don't come out. LAPD fired 5,300 rounds. The SLA fired an estimated 3,000 to 4,000 rounds. The LAPD released 83 tear gas things. But no police officers or bystanders were shot.

In the end, all six members of the SLA were killed in the shootout with the FBI and with the police. So now everyone's like, fuck, is Patty dead? Is she in that house? And the only members left of the SLA are Patty and Emily and Bill Harris.

And they are pissed. They were like, you just killed our family has just been murdered by the government. And that's the whole point of like why they started this. Exactly. Not good. Not good at all. So the police go in, they find out that Patty is not there. Patty and Emily and Bill release a tape. And it's a damning message to the press. And in the recording, they do a eulogy for all of the SLA members. Patricia speaks at length for her love for William.

For Willie. Oh, sweetheart. Yeah. She was saying that she had a romantic relationship with him. She called him the gentlest, most beautiful man I have ever known. Oh. Raise the bar. Raise the bar, ladies. No kidding. A man who kidnaps you is definitely not the most gentle man you've ever known. No.

She's also like, I died in that fire, but from the ashes, I was reborn and I know what I have to do. She was like, I would never choose to live the rest of my life surrounded by pigs like the hearse. And she ends it by saying death to the fascist insect, death, death to the fascist insect that preys upon the life of the people.

And then they go on the run. They go to New York. They hide out in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Scranton. I know that is Claire. Do you know? I don't know. It's on the show called The Office, Tess. You've never seen it. Never seen it. That's one of our inside jokes that everyone bullies me. I just don't believe that Tess has actually ever watched The Office. It's crazy. It's crazy. I just don't believe it. So then they eventually make their way back to California. Are they flying?

Flying by plane? Car. Okay, yeah, because you can't like, yeah. Yeah, and bus, actually. They were like wearing wigs. Of course they were wearing wigs. Oh my God, you guys. It's so dramatic. It is. They start recruiting new members for their revolutionary cause. Patricia participates in more crimes around Sacramento, California, including attempted murder

attempted bombings of police cars one year in IHOP. Shout out to our Chippendale murders. Like, shit goes down in IHOP. Dark time. Dark time. I actually think that they did bomb police cars. It wasn't just attempted. They also did another armed bank robbery, which resulted in a death. They killed somebody. And then for more than a year, the FBI remained one step behind them. They pinpoint the SLA's location only to show up and realize the group evaded them once more. Can you imagine being on the run?

Like the FBI, like really not being able to. How do you outsmart the FBI? Well, it's like Catch Me If You Can with Tom Hanks and Leo. I just like. It's just like, how can you be so smart? I couldn't. I know. No. I would not be able. It is also just too exhausting. I'd be like, I need my bedtime. You could never have a rot day if you're on the run.

I didn't even think about that. It's not worth it. Oh, absolutely not. If you were thinking about it, think about your rot day. Yeah, that takes priority in everything. Of course. It's good for you. But finally, Tess, in the fall of 1975, 591 days after being kidnapped, the FBI caught up with Patricia.

She was sharing a home with another political fugitive, Wendy Yoshimura. So maybe like don't be roomies with someone else who's on the run. No, you got to like split it up. Yeah, keep it tight. Yeah, keep that shit tight. Someone could ruin it all for you. So on September 18th, police and the FBI burst into the women's San Francisco apartment building.

Wendy put her hands up and surrendered, but Patricia walked away. Patricia had said she was afraid of being shot and she was going towards Wendy's bedrooms. Authorities believe she was headed in the direction of the closet, one where guns were stored. What is undisputed is that when the police threatened to kill Wendy, Patricia returned to view with her hands up. After 19 months, the missing Patty Hearst was found and promptly arrested.

Yeah, it's got to come to an end, girlfriend. It really does. You've gotten out of control at this point. It's gone too far. You've gone too far. Defiant images of handcuffed Patty. She was smiling and clenching her fist of her like the revolutionary sign.

Oh, there's nothing more creepy than like an eerie smile. I can't. I can't. I know. And it's all over the news. And when asked what her occupation was during her booking and her fingerprinting, her response was urban gorilla. Okay. That's a little loser-y.

Let's be honest. Totally. So she is in it. Patricia was charged with armed robbery and use of a firearm to commit a felony in the connection with the April 1974 incident at that bank. According to Time Magazine, she... Oh, grandpa? Oh,

Come around. I love when you show up. Same. It's comforting. It is. She instructed her first attorney to relay the message to the world. Quote, tell everybody that I'm smiling, that I feel free and strong, and that I send my greetings and love to all the sisters and brothers out there. Got it.

Yeah, so she's pretty cocky. She's gotten so cocky. She's so in it. She's bothering me. I know. I know. And, like, I feel for her. That's why I felt so pulled with this case. I know. But now I'm like, okay, wrap it up, Tanya. And thank God Tanya has been wrapped up. And, like, it's method acting. And finally, like, the movie has premiered. And now she's having to sit with it. Well, think about every method actor you know. You don't want to be around them for more than... Well, we're still hearing the Elvis voice from Austin Butler. Right.

It's not okay. I think he's finally starting to be like, yeah, I couldn't shake that. How does Kaya Gerber not be like, can you please stop speaking like this? I wonder what their relationship is like. I do too. Wow. I bet Kaya Gerber and Austin Butler never thought they'd be tied to Patty Hearst. Yeah, they're like, don't bring us into this. But that's Ram, babe. That's Ram. So two years exactly after the abduction, the so-called, this was the first trial of the century. That's what they called it.

which was also what they called OJ. It's all of Claire's subjects. Tess, not only that, Patty was represented by famed lawyer F. Lee Bailey, who was on OJ's legal team. Wow, God, he's seen so much. She has seen it.

So much. This is such a Ram episode. She goes to court and they like have her looking great. She's in a chic outfit. Her hair's done. Her eyebrows are done. Oh, like she's like, I got them threaded. Of course she looks microbladed. Yeah. And of course she needs to, they need to be like, look at this innocent woman. You think that she could rob a bank? God, it's all about, it's all about images. And it is. So this legal team maintained that Patricia's behavior was the result of ruthless,

brainwashing by the SLA and fear that she would be killed for not participating. They invoked that this is so crazy to me. They invoked that in the medieval days, if a princess was kidnapped from the castle, she could not be held accountable for anything that had happened until she was returned to safety. Huh. I'm going to start using that in my life. I don't know for what, but she's going to start using it. And in medieval times. That's a fun fact. Yeah. And also like,

But I kind of see that. I see it too. It's like she's being kidnapped. She's not in her like space. She's in survival mode. Exactly. I'm all for it. Yeah. So she was terrorized. She was coached on what to say and how to behave. Yeah. And they did say, you know, that she was raped. Everything she did, including the crime she committed, was out of fear for her life. And then they use the argument of Stockholm Syndrome. Yeah.

So smart. They use this in court.

But in the criminal or in the American criminal justice system, there is no such defense of brainwashing, which is kind of crazy. But Stockholm syndrome is essentially brain. It's like in the same family. It is. But you can't. Wow. What Stockholm syndrome was discovered in like right before this. Yeah. It's like all very close. And psychologists have even said that it's like hard. It's not necessarily a mental disorder, which is also kind of tough. It's like a product of your environment. But that's.

fucked up because they use insanity so lightly right right and so why can you use insanity and not use stockholm syndrome which is like you're the victim to in that test it turns me on when you turn into owls oh thank you so much oh i love thank you so much so the legal version of the defense of brainwashing is called coercive persuasion and which basically means that i as the defendant was forced to commit these crimes and therefore i am not guilty because i was forced to do it

Right. So it's like not necessarily brainwashing. But it's like, yeah, like you would like have like a gun.

gun to your head sort of thing. Exactly. But the prosecution painted a very different picture. They argued that Patricia was not brainwashed, but a rebel in search of a cause. And that's why they have like that, that witness at the beginning being like, she used LSD and like she was crazy. Right, they're trying to like paint a picture. They were trying to paint the picture that like she was always like a rebellious person and she found the SLA and she wanted to join the SLA. And she like excelled in that

Exactly. And like not the fact that she was literally taken from her home and put in the trunk of a car and kept in a closet for two months. Yeah. They said the SLA had no training in brainwashing. They weren't like these, you know, experts like war crime people. They pointed to the numerous times that Patty could have tried to escape or try to help or find help.

but did not. They questioned why she kept a necklace from William Wolfe, the man that Patricia is now accusing of rape. I mean, that's the definition of like an abusive relationship. Exactly. They, they questioned the tape where Patty said she had never had love for someone like Willie, but she, but like she was kidnapped. She was kept with a blindfold on and,

Yeah, like what's a girl to do? And also she said it. So believe women. Exactly. Like and I was saying she was bothering me. But I truly know that this is like –

It was out of her control. I also think it's okay with the other things to have like a complicated relationship with it. Yeah. I think we'll never understand what it's like to be in survival mode like that. No, God no. Because I think when you first hear this, like when you're like, oh my God, Patty, come on. Like, what are you doing? You just, you think of it as like she's just going along with it and you don't think about what it's like to actually be there. Yeah. And I think it was like,

For a woman in this position, public, like the public has a really hard time being able to like understand her. Because it's like, well, she's like this rich. Is she a rich good girl? Is she a crazy bad girl? Like people don't like when a woman, there's complications. We want to see everything as black and white. Exactly. And we don't want to take the time and like the nuance to go through this whole case. No. And this is like kind of exactly just that. Yeah. It represents that. But like when I was doing my research, I was like,

come on. Yeah. Like I was getting frustrated by it too. Well, you're frustrated because you're like, you're better than this. Yes. And you want to be like, just get out. But if you have been taken away from everything that you've known and have been isolated and told this is your family now and this is how you survive. And she was so young. She was so young. And she had just been in a predatory relationship. Her brain isn't even fully formed yet. She's like 22 years old.

No, and she's been probably pretty sheltered. Exactly. And like the whole thing is just like recipe for, yeah, brainwashing. Exactly. Surviving SLA members were also trying to make the case that the group, like we said before, that we're all women, we're all feminists, like the

We would have never allowed anything bad to happen to her. But good people don't kidnap people, you know? Yeah, and threaten to kill them. Yeah. And threaten to kill other people. Yeah. So I believe what the woman said. I believe what the victim of the kidnappings actually said happened to her. That's who I believe. So then they also put her on the stand, which is actually not great for her because she pleads the fifth the whole time. Yeah.

and jurors don't like it when you plead the fifth. Did her lawyer tell her to do that? I think so. It's like never a good look. No, it's not a good look in life. It's not a good look on Watch What Happens Live. I hate. It basically just means you're guilty.

Exactly, Tess. That's what the jury sees. They're like, well, she's pleading the fifth, so she's guilty in all this. That's such an odd choice for her to do that. I agree. So after all was said and done, the 12 people who made up the jury at Patricia's peers did not believe that she had been brainwashed or coerced into robbing the bank. And in September 1976, at 22 years old, Patty Hearst was sentenced to seven years in prison. Seven years is like, not that. It's not that bad. She did. No.

kidding she tried to kill like tons of people yeah the fact that like someone actually did die in one of like the bank robberies yeah it's just so crazy because like her life did not have to go this way that's what's so unfair no like she was just like a normal bay area rich kid that like got kidnapped was in a townhouse one night yes doing her thing with her fiance that she didn't like that much

Right? God, it could have been. It could have been anyone. It could have been us. It could have been. Like, actually, though. She completely goes back to how she was pre-kidnapping. She goes back to her normal self. Like, pretty quickly. Like, yeah, pretty quickly. Like, she's pretty cocky in the beginning as trial's going on. She's, like, softening and she's like, I love my family and all of that now. God. Of those seven years, Patricia served 22 months. So she doesn't even serve two years. I was going to say, she probably got up pretty quick.

Yeah. And in 1979, President Jimmy Carter commuted her sentence. So that's great. Well, that is nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just two months out of prison, Patty married her bodyguard. That was. Oh. That was hired to protect her after her trial. He was a San Francisco police officer named Bernard Shaw. Isn't that so interesting, though?

That she literally then marries someone that is like physically protecting her. It's all like the only love she has ever known is like this hot and cold. Like it's all a little predatory. God, if you're like a psychology major interested in that at all, like this episode is for you. It's like how everyone like falls in love with like their lawyer. Or like why people fall in love with people who remind them of their dad. Yeah. Almost. Yeah. That's for a whole nother time. Yeah.

It's crazy. Damn. Yeah. So she married her bodyguard. The couple eventually settled in Connecticut and they had two daughters. God, that family has some, they like the girlies. The girlies just survive. They survive. They're that family. She wrote a memoir about her time with the SLA, among other books. Have you ever heard of the director or writer John Waters? No.

Why does that sound so familiar? I don't know. Apparently he has cult classic films. She stars in several of his films. She becomes an actress. She's like, you know what? The whole experience was a little scary, but what I did love was the theta. She was like, this was the greatest acting boot camp I had ever been in my life. Like truly. Yeah. So she becomes an actress. Oh my God. Uh-huh. She just creates a completely normal life for herself after this. Yeah.

In 2001, on his last day in office, let's add in one more Ram subject, shall we? President Bill Clinton granted Patricia a complete pardon, meaning her criminal record was wiped clean. And by that time, she was an active member of East Coast Social Circle. Social Circle. She was like in the Hamptons with Ramona. Literally, she was no longer a convicted bank robber. Oh, my God. I cannot speak today. Wow.

Yeah. Today, Patricia's life bears little trace of the saga. She fills her days with activities like raising show dogs for competitions. Oh, God. She would be a dog woman. Like a show dog woman. I can totally see it. And that is the kidnapping of Patricia Hearn. So she's still alive? She's still alive. How old is she? Oh.

So she was 20 in like the 70s? She was born in 1954, so she's turning 70 this year. Or she just turned 70 this year. She's my mom's age. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? God, what a wild ride. I know. I know there was a lot of information at the beginning. It was a little rocky. It was a lot for me to keep up with. It was not rocky at all. It was very, very well detailed. That is... Can you believe that happened? Well done, Claire. Well done. What a Ram-centric episode.

episode what a ram centric up so we had oj bill clinton stockholm syndrome um kind of like jim jones even charlie manson there's something else with the parking ticket this is gonna kill me guys you're gonna find it let me know yeah um and then one other thing it kind of reminded me of who's like a rich kid that we've talked about that you're just like oh lots of rich kids

Yeah, wow. What a gorgeous episode. How fun. Well, yeah. I just can't... I can't imagine if, like, Jeff Bezos' daughter was kidnapped and then joined a radical group and we all were just watching it on TV. Pop culture will never be what it was. It never will. You know, it just won't. Yeah, San Francisco...

In LA in the 60s and 70s, like what a crazy place to be. It's so like different now, you know? It's so different now. Like it just used to be a wild place. It was the wild, wild west. Like anything, anything.

Anything goes. Anything goes. Yeah, guys. Well, well done, Claire. Thank you. You guys asked for it. Amazing. Oh, wow. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I hope any of it, like, made sense. It all made very, it all made so much sense. It was fascinating. Oh, and Theater Kids. That's another one of our Ram episodes. Listen to our Shakespeare episode. Exactly. Where it all started. It all started there. Ah,

Well, guys, if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends. Like the more you share on your socials, it makes such a difference for us. Especially if you've been like requesting it and we didn't. Yes. Share it. Because that makes us happy that like we know that you really appreciated it. Exactly. So please do. Should we try to get Patty Hearst on the pod?

I feel like she would do it. Is she like repped by someone? I bet she's repped by someone. Is she repped by WME girly? Oh my God. Let's check after this. Is Patty Hearst a WME girly? I feel like she is. She could also be like CAA. UTA? We'll find out. Or she's like with like a very like. She's with like a. Indeed. Yeah.

She's like, I'm for the people. We've all been there. Yeah, guys. So we love feminism. We love equality. Please don't kidnap people in order to do that. It's as simple as that. It's just as simple as that. If you learn one thing from Ram, let's take that. Exactly. Yeah. Well, guys, we love you so much. We love you. We'll see you next week with a very requested subject. Yeah. I'm excited. It should be interesting. If my coughs have given you any hints, I'll leave you with that. That's good. That's good, Claire. I'll leave you with that. And we love y'all. Bye, guys. Love you. Bye.