Paris Hilton Is Sliving
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Welcome back to Write Answers Mostly, a podcast on what you didn't learn in history class, but you really wanted to. I'm Claire Donald. And I'm Tess Palomo. You guys, we miss you so much. But it's not just us in the studio today. We have a very special guest. Christy Cook from Spill Sesh is joining us today. Hi, Christy. Hi, guys. Thank you so much for having us.

Exciting. I'm super excited. We have a pop culture expert. I feel like I can call you that for sure. Oh my gosh. And we can ask you anything, right? Truly. Oh my. Which you all know, this is our bread and butter, so there's no better person to have on RAM. I love it. All thanks to pop culture, you guys. I'm so excited. Well, we were talking about it a little bit before, because I was like, how did you get into all of this, if you don't mind sharing, because we are starstruck.

I feel? We really are. Especially when you told us a little something. I did tell them that I used to work at CMZ. It was a good four years of my life but a bombshell a bit. What was like

What was it like working at TMZ? What was, like, the... Environment. Yeah, what was, like, the culture? It was a crazy time. I mean, I feel like every day was something new because there's breaking news every day. But also, I feel like I was there in such a crazy era, like, the time period. Because we had the whole Kanye came to the office incident. I was there for that. Oh, my God. Yeah. What year was this? I think it was 2017 or 2018. Something around that time, but...

when he had made like those really crazy comments on the air. Which one? I was talking to the, I know. We don't have the time. Where do we begin? Yeah, when he came and he was like talking to the whole office and everyone was just like,

Okay. Oh, my God. Wow. Are the phone lines just like ringing off the hook constantly? I mean, kind of, but also no. I feel like any like tips that we would get just all just come through like email. Really? I mean, I guess that's true. I know, but whenever I think of TMZ, I think of it, it's like Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah. Everyone like up on death's screen like, get that phone out.

It kind of was that way a bit. I mean, we just were always so on it and everyone was scouring the internet. All I did all day long was like scroll through Instagram and like see what people were posting and send out like this person was on vacation or this person posted this photo, this person seen with this person. Did you have a direct line to Kris Jenner?

I wish I knew that information. Yeah, no kidding. I know. I wish. Were there any celebrities that would email you being like, please respect my privacy and stop? I wouldn't see it if there had been. So I don't really know about that. I mean, the email that I got was just like the communal, like everyone is seeing it in the entire office email that if you saw something online and you needed like to just share it and see if somebody maybe wanted to write it up.

That was like the email I had access to. Is there a celebrity that you're like, they always are planting themselves everywhere and they are planting their own stories? Are you allowed to reveal? Yeah, I feel like...

Well, I was always online, like always looking at everything on Getty, all the events and who was on Instagram the most. And there were definitely people that I would always see that I'm like, they are at everything or they are always doing those like paparazzi photos that you just know, like they probably called them. Yes. But there's like no way that they're just like out walking their dog every day. What percentage of paparazzi photos are not like they don't, the subreddit,

themselves don't call the paparazzi I

I also I think that's like so interesting because I feel like a lot of people thought like we were the paparazzi too so we would be getting those calls but a lot of the time like we do have like camera people but a lot of the time we're like purchasing off of like these websites where paparazzi like would freelance and then sell them to these websites and then we would buy them. History. Yeah. Herstory. Herstory. So how did that lead you to Spill Sash?

I was just so in the pop culture bubble. I loved it. Ever since like before TMZ, I loved journalism. I wanted to be in the world in some capacity doing broadcast. And I just always was so into influencer culture and YouTube videos. I was like,

I didn't have cable. I was always watching YouTube. And I felt like no one was talking about them like how we were talking about celebrities. Yeah. So then I started talking about them like on YouTube. And then eventually like that kind of just became something. And I was like, I think I could just

do this where I talk about influencers like by myself. Now I talk about celebrities too but in the beginning it was very influencer heavy. And you are truly the perfect person to bring on for this episode. We couldn't think of someone better because we are talking about like...

One of the, I feel like the influencer, the pop culture it girl of our generation. Yes. Paris Hilton. Love her. Love her. Queen icon legend. Truly. So before we get into it, what are y'all's thoughts about Paris? What do you know about Paris before we get into her history? I think Paris is so multi-dimensional. Like there's so many different parts about her. I think off the top of their head, most people would just be like,

oh, like she's, she's like maybe a dumb blonde. But then if you sit and you actually watch her do an interview and she's not doing the voice, you're probably like,

wait a minute, like who is even talking right now? And what is, what's going on? Cause she just, she's like a different person. Every interview that she does, depending on what the interview is, if she's promoting her product or if she's talking about business stuff, it's like two different people. She really knows how to market herself. She's made tons of money that it's just, it's so crazy how many different sides to her there are that a lot of people might just like

like really underestimate her if they don't look into it. 100%. Well said. Could have said it better myself. Yes. It's all the Paris content I've consumed. Oh my gosh. Do you watch Paris in Love? Yes. Guys, do not sleep on this show. Her reality show is so good. It's on Peacock right now. It made me fall in love with her, I swear. Fall in love. I was obsessed. Like once I started and I think Tess started first, I was like, I cannot get enough of it. I binged the whole thing with my mom.

Okay, we're going to do... Oh, in, like, one weekend. Yes. Recapping at the end, we will talk about Paris and Love because I want to hear your thoughts about people in her life. Yeah. Yes. We'll get into it. Uh-huh. Tess, what are your thoughts about Paris? I mean, I... Or what do you know about her? I agree with Christy. I just think she's, like, an amazing woman. I think when, like, early 2000s when I was in middle school and high school, like, I was never, like, a Paris stan. Like, I think I was more almost, like, intimidated by her because she was, like, the party girl and I didn't really, like, understand it. And as I've gotten older...

I've just grown to like really respect her as like a businesswoman she's a artist she's a creative I think that she just like stands she challenges people she does challenge and I think that's amazing and I think like now I do know a little bit more about like the reasons as to why she has hid behind like a character in her life and I really I understand it and like I respect it you

You know what's so interesting, too? It's like, why would we not think she would be a brilliant business person? Because of, like, look at the family that she comes from. She was, like, born with that. Of course. Yeah, that is in her DNA. I think it's just, like, all those, all the 2000s party photos, everyone was just, like, she's ungrateful for what she has. She doesn't know anything. She's just, like, blowing through money and having fun when it's, like, it was all, like, sort of.

sort of strategic. Well, let's get into it then, shall we? I'm so excited. Okay, so my citations from the start. So also we have kind of like a family tree that we created from our citations. So we say Wikipedia is our stepfather because they're like always there, but we can't quite trust them. Yeah. So Wikipedia is our stepfather. The Cut, which I haven't used before, chic though. Very chic. The Simple Life, obviously you guys, I bought this season on Amazon. It's $5. It is so worth it. And we will be talking about the Simple Life. The

Her documentary, This is Paris, on YouTube, and her memoir, Paris the Memoir. So I do want to give a little bit of a trigger warning at the start, too. We will be talking about sexual assaults in this episode, so we completely understand if that is not for you. We'll give a trigger warning before if you want to skip through that section as well.

But let's get into it, shall we? Let's do it. So Paris Whitney Hilton was born on February 17th, 1981. Whitney? Whitney. I know. That stuck out to me. I was like, Whitney. Her cousin's name is Whitney. So I wonder if it's a family name on her. Kim Richards' daughter's name is Whitney. Never forget? Never forget. February 17th, she is a... Aquarius? Aquarius. And I don't know if you're into astrology at all.

Paris Hilton is like, of course an Aquarius. Yeah, just like what's she all about? What's she all about? The interview I just watched in the car listening on the way here, she was literally talking about how she's an Aquarius and how it is like everything surrounding like her being a businesswoman. That makes so much sense. Well, if we want to go even further in her book, she said what her big three are. So your big three is your sun, moon, and rising. And it kind of like makes up everything about who you are. So she's an Aquarius sun.

she's a Leo moon and she's a Sagittarius rising, which is like, that is Paris Hilton. Like Sagittarius are like, I'm going to do whatever I want in the world. She's going to work out around me. Leo's also a fire sign. Like warmer. She's got everything. She's got everything. She's got it all. Like she does. I see. I see how she is the way she is. It's like contradictions that just like make up

who she is. Exactly. I love it. It was written in the stars from the beginning. Wow. Written in the stars. Yes. Wow. She's the first child of Richard Hilton and Kathy Hilton. Oh my God. Kathy. Mm.

We'll talk. We'll talk. The show did her a number. I mean, we need to do an episode just on Kathy Hilton. On Kathy Hilton. I mean, the show reveals who Kathy Hilton really is, and I appreciated that. We needed to see that. Yeah. And we did. We did. She's the oldest of four children. She has one sister, Nikki Hilton. She has two little brothers, Conrad and Baron Hilton. She's the great-granddaughter of Conrad Hilton, who founded the Hilton Hotels. Let's get into the Hilton legacy a little bit. Yeah.

Her great-grandfather, Conrad, moved to Texas from New Mexico in 1919. He was a banker, which I assume if you're a banker, you're already kind of rich. It sounds rich. Especially at that time. Yeah. He got money. Yeah. So he was buying a bank in Texas at the height of the Texas oil boom. Oh, he was rich. Oh, yeah. Texas oil boom.

money. We love that. Good for Paris. But then instead, because I guess that bank deal fell through, so he's like, I guess I'll just buy this 40-room hotel in Cisco, Texas. So he does that. The hotel just crushes it. People are like, we've never seen a hotel like this. We love it. He goes on to buy a bunch of hotels in Texas, and then he starts expanding outside of Texas, building the Hilton Hotels. Then he starts acquiring other hotels like

the Waldorf Astoria in New York. Chic. Chic. So he has his Hilton's hotels, he buys a Waldorf and then in the 50s and 60s we go worldwide and he is the first international hotel chain. Um,

Oh. Which is crazy. He also like raised the standards for like hotel rankings, I guess. People were like, oh, this is actually how hotels should be. In all, Conrad Hilton eventually owned 188 hotels in 38 cities across the U.S., including the Plaza. He owned the Plaza at one time. I love the Plaza. Oh my gosh.

So the Plaza, the Waldorf, and then 54 hotels abroad. He later purchased the Carte Blanche credit card or credit company. And he has interest in the American Crystal Sugar Company. You know Crystal Sugar? Find a man who can do it all. Who can do it all, as well as other enterprises. So this family is rich, bitch. Yeah. Like, cannot even... I remember...

when The Simple Life was first on and I kind of didn't really know who she was and I remember asking my mom like who is that and she said that she was a hotel heiress and I was like what's an heiress? Yeah I was like how can you be that rich from that? Yes. Like it didn't like compute when I was young. And then hearing hotels I was like hotels it's like so not glamorous oh my god is it glamorous? Yeah like it wasn't until Suite Life that we're like okay. Yeah Suite Life is back in Coney Island.

Thank you for taking it there, Christy. Thank you for taking it there. So, yeah. And then her dad, Richard Hilton, he,

he was a businessman. He started Hilton Realty, which was an investment to handle commercial real estate. And then he started the real estate firm Hilton in Highland in 1993, which if you guys watch Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and then you watch Buying Beverly Hills. Did you watch Buying Beverly Hills on Netflix? Oh, you have to. I'm so jealous. My parents are like, you need to watch it. They are obsessed with it.

it. It's incredible. Any show where they sell big houses, my parents are like, I want to consume that content. And you get the drama of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and Kyle's kids and everything. And then we get the drama between Rick Hilton and Mauricio Umansky, who is... Bravo people, you know. But there is some family drama here. We love it. So again, she's rich. So Rick and Kathy met when Kathy... These are Paris' parents. When Kathy was 15. Oh, okay. Oh, no.

I think he was only like two years older than her. Okay. We're going to be talking about Big Kath in a little bit. That's Kathy Hilton's mom. What? Her spirit is with us. She's always with us. She's the ultimate scary mommy. But I think what she wanted ultimately for her girls and for her grandchildren was wealth and fame. And so I think that

Big Kath had Kathy Hilton meet Rick Hilton. It was like bada bing, bada boom. Yeah, she was setting them up with these men. She was. I think she had trauma from – yeah, I think she definitely projected a lot of stuff onto her girls wanting to protect them but at the same time wanting them just to have this lavish life. A hundred percent. So they get married and Kathy has Paris when she's 19 years old. That's so crazy.

Oh, wow. I didn't know that she was that young. Me either. So young. So later on, Conrad and Baron, Paris' little brothers, one is like 10 years younger than her, and then one is 15 years younger than her. But she had Paris and Nikki as a teenager. And Kyle had Alexia at 19, too. Wow.

Big Cath. I think it's Big Cath's influence. I think she was like, get him out young, get knocked up by these rich men. Get rich young. Get the bag, secure it, babe. Exactly. And we appreciate that because this empire that Big Cath has ultimately created is... She got it. I mean, we're talking about it. Yeah, we got it.

And we always are. We are. So in Paris's book, she talks about growing up, that they would always go to her grandfather's house, which they called Brooklawn in Beverly Hills. And that's where she got married. If you watch Paris in Love, that's that house. It seems like...

They had a huge family because I think Rick is one of like five kids or maybe even eight. I don't know. Right answers mostly. All the cousins are like super tight. And then she said that the parties growing up were truly like fairs. Like there was a petting zoo and like a carousel. It's like the Kardashian birthday parties right now. Exactly.

Exactly. They do a lot. What I would give to just attend like one just to see what it was like. What I loved about Paris in Love too, when they were planning her wedding, they went to that stationery store and Paris was like, I've been coming here since I was a little girl. It's so cute. It's like old money shit. It is. That you're just like, this is not what we want.

This is not real life. This is not what I know. Yeah. So from a very young age, Paris knew that her family name carried weight. Like they were going to red carpets as a kid and fundraising events and galas. And then all these parties happening at the Waldorf where you're also like, my family owns this hotel. One of her earliest memories is sitting on Andy Warhol's lap at

and he was drawing pictures at an after party at the Waldorf. And she said that Andy Warhol always told Kathy, quote, this kid is going to be a huge star.

That's kind of creepy. Sorry to bring it there. But like Andy Warhol was like surrounded by stars. That's true. Yeah, that is true. For him to say that. Yeah, no kidding. Her nickname as a kid actually was star. Like that's what all of her family called her. And then her aunt Kyle Richards, we say on the show it always goes back to Bravo. Like we can always relate back. This is like our easiest subject to go back to Bravo. But Kyle Richards said, quote, I think there was probably too much focus when she was little on how beautiful she was.

Well, yeah, that's never going to end well, you know? Yeah. It can be tough when you're telling a young girl, like, that's the only thing you're telling her is, like, how beautiful she is. Yeah. And Kyle is, like, not that much older than Paris, actually. So Kyle was her aunt, but she grew up kind of feeling more like a cool older sister to her. And in Paris's book, she says, quote, mom, I had to put this in. She said, quote, mom, Kim and Kyle presented a fabulous model for his sisterhood dynamics. Oh.

Oh. Which is like, have you seen season one of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills? You're an alcoholic. You're an alcoholic. You're a slut pig. Yeah. That's an interesting sisterhood. The sisters. Like, I just think that's interesting that she said that because I'm like, sure, Jan. I feel like she's like, as long as you're close, that means that everything's good. Yes. Like, even if you're fighting or toxic or destructive, like,

You know, like, I think there's a very warped sense of. I think so, too. And it's sad because Paris also told the story, speaking of her aunts, that one time she caught her mom reading her diary to her aunts. And they were all, like, laughing about it. I do remember this. Yes. And she was reading. So sad. Kathy was reading it in a, like, really mockingly way. And I just feel like that's unforgivable. It would, like, destroy me. It destroys.

I just I would be like second guessing my own thoughts not even just like my how like my mom felt about me but I'd be like am I crazy for what I'm writing down oh my gosh well Tess and I have talked about this before when I still journal regularly but like and but you're always writing of like maybe someone will be reading yeah just like a little bit I'm just like okay maybe not the dark

a thought just in case. You always have to put in every journal, if I am dead, do not read this, even as a 33-year-old woman. You have to say it. You just never know. Paris also talked about when she was growing up that her nanny was her Aunt Kyle's friend, Bethany Frankel. Well, Bethany loves to talk about this.

She loves to talk about everything. Yeah, when I used to nanny for Paris and Nikki. Yeah. Just those girls. Maybe you know them. Can you imagine Bethany Frankel being your nanny? Not at all. How did Bethany even get that position? I think she was friends with Kyle.

Oh, yeah. And then Kyle was like, my friend's looking for a gig. She's like, work for me. Yeah. And I also think that Bethany's dad was like in the L.A. rich scene, too. Bethany doesn't like to say that because she likes to pretend that she grew up with nothing. But yeah. Yeah, exactly. Nepo baby, that's not me. Yeah, exactly. So Paris was very much a tomboy when she was growing up. She loved animals. She had, sorry, Tess, she had rats. Oh, God.

Tess really hates rats. Enough of this. Rats, ferrets, monkey, snakes. She once let her snake out of its cage at the Waldorf. She had pet goats. Everyone thought she was going to be a veterinarian when she was growing up. I think she was just like this scrappy little tomboy. In the documentary, Paris said, my mom always wanted me to be a Hilton and I just wanted to be Paris. Because while she was a scrappy tomboy, Kathy very much wanted her to be like

in etiquette classes and debut her as like a debutante. And she wanted that for both Paris and Nikki. Oh, this is what's going to happen if you do that to your kid. They're going to push back and be like, I'm going to go roll around in the mud. Exactly. See how you like that. They're going to like want to do that even more. Of course. Of course. If you don't let your kids just be who they are. And I think...

it's one thing to want your daughter to be like very private and prim and proper and then you have the weight of the Hilton name behind you. Kathy tried too hard. She tried way too hard. And she's still trying. And she's still trying. And I'm also like, you have it with Nikki. Like you have,

that daughter that you want. Let her be. Yes. Let Paris be Paris. It's actually really interesting in her book. Paris talks about that the baby voice came very early in her life because I've always kind of thought the baby voice was, which I think this is, was a reaction of trauma. But she said that the baby voice started because of her struggles with ADHD. Yeah.

that in her yeah in her etiquette classes she was taught to be a good girl which meant being quiet and still and obeying and she said because of her adhd she was incapable of these things and so she would get in trouble and she was like so the way i would get out of being in trouble is to learn to be adorable and she said quote i had to be cute precious and coy i had to act silly and put on a baby girl voice which came very naturally to me when i was nervous

Interesting. I did that when I was little for a certain amount of time. Like, I remember using that to be like, this is going to be cute. Yeah, I feel like everyone has that, like, thing that they're doing with their parents to be like, come on. Yes. Yeah. I didn't even

Yeah. Totally. That type of thing. Yeah. But then you ended it. Some, you know. Yeah. At some point it has to. And she's made a character out of it, which we will talk about. She was raised very sheltered and conservative. She was not allowed to date, wear makeup or certain types of clothes or go to school dances. Like they were very. No, that's going to send me into a spiral. I'm going to be in the club. Oh, of course. Like I'm going to be in the club. Give your kids a little bit. Like if you say none of that, it's like.

Start with some mascara. So you can just wear that and nothing else. You know, like... Exactly. A little compromise. Well, it's interesting you said that because Paris said, quote, it's problematic when girls go into that exploratory phase feeling secretive and ill-informed. If the message you send kids is we don't talk about such things, then guess what? Your kids move towards adulthood with the idea that being an adult means keeping secrets. Which I think is like such a profound thing to say. Yeah.

Yeah. They also put her in Catholic school because she was starting to rebel a little bit. And so she's like, we never really talked about sex and what any of that meant as a teenager. And then...

one time she is in seventh grade. She's going to this school and there's this handsome teacher that in her book she calls Mr. Abercrombie. This is crazy. This teacher was in charge of every year crowning someone the finest girl. I can't. In seventh grade? In seventh grade. Also in any grade that wouldn't be okay for a teacher to do that. That is insane. And like, did no teachers be like, what are we doing here? Why do we even have a finest girl? There's like a million things wrong with this. Like,

There's so many things. I'm shook. Shook. So when Paris is in seventh grade, he crowns her the finest girl. Yeah, I bet he did. Yeah. Go where the money's at. Go where the money's going. And he literally tells her one day, I have a crush on you. No. Yeah. Yeah. So then one day he shows up at her house. She climbs out of her window and sneaks out and she gets into his car. They share a kiss. In the seventh grade? In the seventh grade. Yes.

I can't. So her parents somehow show up and catch them kissing. And he takes off with her in his car. I guess he freaked out and fled. Oh, my gosh. Yep. So they're driving around. And the whole time, this teacher is like, oh, my God. My life is ruined. I'm going to lose my job. I hope so. Exactly. And then he drives back to her house and just kicks her out of her car. And she...

to this by being like, I thought I was special. Why are you now treating me like this? Because again, she's in seventh grade. She doesn't even imagine. Yeah. How this is so inappropriate. Yeah. She just sees it then as just rejection. She's just like, what did I do? Probably. Exactly. So sad. So sad. So she goes back out to her room. Her parents burst into the room and they're furious with her. Oh.

Oh, my God. Get real. And so it begins. And so it begins. They don't say anything about it to the school, which is also crazy. This is where they pissed, like, really pissed me off. Same. In this, in, like, her whole story. They were just thinking about their image or... Exactly. Yeah. And not saying, like, seeing that your daughter is the victim in all of this. And also protecting other kids that he is bound to do that to. Yeah, exactly. I don't even understand how that's, like, perpetuated.

protecting their image that makes them look so much better. Right. Because it obviously got out. But it makes them look so much better for helping potential other students that this would happen to. And also, why would you want him to even potentially interact with her ever again? Exactly. Because he's still going to be there tomorrow at school. Because in their minds, they see it as Paris did something. They probably were like, she flirted. She made this happen. So disgusting. So that if they said something about it, they would think that she'd get in trouble.

Exactly. And how old are you in seventh grade? Like 12 or 13? Yeah. You got to be. Yeah. I think you might be 12. Yeah. I think so too. I was 14 going into high school freshman year of high school. So then it's like 13, 12. It's so sad. If when your parents are supposed to be the one protecting you and then that's your response. And she talks about in the book, how it took her a very long time to come to terms with the fact that she was the victim in this and that he was a pedophile. And,

Because I think also when people are in situations like this, you don't want to think of yourself as the victim because then it lands with you how serious the situation is for you. So,

So it's just so sad. And then her parents react further with this by punishing her and sending her to live with her grandma, Big Kath, in Palm Springs. Oh, God. What a punishment. Like, anywhere but there. It was so scary. It's, like, darker than hell. Like, truly. At a house in Palm Springs, which that house was on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills in the early season. It's, like, their original Palm Springs house. There's a lot of, like, fighting over that house. Yep.

So they send her away to Palm Springs to punish her, her freshman year of high school, which is like such a formative year in girlhood. And then her family moves to New York. So it's not even like we're sending you off. We're also moving across the country. It's so sad. And she talks about at this point how she was just like picturing her family having breakfast without her. She's all alone. It's just so sad.

sad it is and she said she was like I never took a sip of alcohol like I never did drugs I do think like Paris was a spicy kid I think she was probably was sneaking out a lot and probably lying about things but that's also being a teenager and when you're a parent like yeah this is your child that you need to take care of and she's not having one person on her side saying by the way this was not your fault yeah I'm validating you right it's

So isolating. It's so isolating. So Kathy said in the documentary that there was just a change in Paris from 13 years old to 15 years old. And it's like, I wonder why. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And trigger warning, as we discussed earlier, something really horrific does happen to Paris at this time in her life. She goes into more details about it in her book, but she was sexually assaulted in a really horrific way.

She doesn't tell anyone about this. Again, because it's like, why would you trust anyone to tell this trauma to? Because before, the reaction was not good. Was it someone that she knew? It was someone. It was a guy at the mall that she, he was in his 20s. And she's a freshman in high school. And her friends and her would go to the mall. And they would see these guys at the mall. And one day, they asked them to come home with her. So they kind of knew him, but not really. Oh.

But then at this time soon after this, Big Kath was actually diagnosed with breast cancer. So later that year, Paris was sent to live with her parents and siblings in New York. So I guess like Big Kath had to go through all of that. And this is where Paris starts getting out onto the scene. She's in New York City, baby. She is in the city. She is seeing the nightlife. That's right. And against Kathy's wishes, Paris gets into the modeling and fashion scene.

So Kathy was like, I just think, which I could see being like the modeling scene isn't great. But I think it wasn't about that. Kathy saw modeling as like this frivolous thing, I think more of that like Hilton's aren't associated with. Because, yeah, she would have wanted her to do something to like, you know what I mean? Yeah. I'm like, she was like, I want you in elite society. Exactly. Which big Kath actually really wanted Paris to get into like modeling and acting. Just like her three daughters.

And then Kathy was like, no, we don't like that life. But Big Kath is like, you are going to be a star. And she was. She knew what was coming for her girls. So Paris, again, would start like...

She would get into the fashion and modeling scene, especially she loves, like, Betsy Johnson, like, the very, like, loud fashion. Yes. Colorful. Exactly. Was she already, like, six foot at this point, too? Is she really tall? She's really tall, right? She looks like she would be. She looks like she's so tall. Or, like, 5'10 or something. She used to be. Yeah. And she starts...

Walking the runway. And then she started buying like wigs and necklaces that said things like sexy and hot bitch, which I'm like, I want one. I want a necklace that says hot bitch right now. So if anyone could like send me one, that would be great. And she gets a really great fake ID. She starts skipping class regularly and sneaking out to parties. I also feel like in New York, like, did you really even need a great fake ID? Does Paris Hilton need a fake ID? Yeah. I think people are already starting to know who she was. Yeah.

I feel like she was scared for herself.

scared for herself. She was scared for herself? Totally. Not that she should be clubbing, but I think she was more so scared for herself. I think so too. So she was threatening them. Paris tried to tell her parents, she was like, I was actually safe when I was clubbing because the paparazzi was around me and if someone was taking a picture of me then no one could kidnap me. Isn't that crazy though? Wow, she feels more safe with

That's really interesting, though. I mean, given, like, all the other stuff that we, like, just said. Yeah. That whenever she would go out, it kind of just seemed like she was more safe. Because, like, the paparazzi wouldn't, like, would clock anyone that was near her. It's so true. It was, like...

Before that. Well, it's also like when you find safety. Terrible stuff was happening. Yeah. Like you find safety in chaos and like strangers. Like that's almost more comforting. Yeah. Because like you are so scared to be at home like alone with your own thoughts. Totally. The paparazzi was her babysitter. Wow. Which is a wild thing. And she did say, you know, like.

getting and she got addicted to the nightlife because in the nightlife, she felt like she could finally be who she was and didn't have someone restricting that, you know, like met like a lot more people around her were just like being nice to her or complimenting her. Whereas like probably at home, they're validating that way. Yeah, that's so true. God, that's so sad. Yeah. And then through this Paris develops her reputation as a socialite and she was getting offers to show up in nightclubs as early as 16. Yeah.

People are starting to be like, we want you to be at this nightclub. She is like of our generation, like the first socialite, right? Like I can't think of another socialite of our generation. Not one as big, you know. Tinsley more than we're wishes. I literally Tinsley just came into my mind. But that was later. Yeah, that was later. Kathy actually physically locks Paris in her room at one point.

Once again, it's just not going to make a difference for what she wants to do. Yeah, and she said that Paris was like, I get it. My parents were scared for me. But what's interesting, it's just like what we've been saying. She follows that by saying they didn't want their reputations to be

ruined and then Kathy is like we spent all this time trying to figure out where to put her and what to do like should we move to the moon and it's like well if your child is clearly like if you are a teenager and you're going out and partying like that clearly there's something going on with your child talk to her yeah maybe we shouldn't be living in New York City ask her

Yeah. What are you feeling? What's going on? Exactly. What do you need? And I feel like most normal parents would be like, I would move to the moon if my child was hurting. Yeah. So in the autumn of 1997, Paris fell asleep around, Paris fell asleep and around 430 in the morning, the bedroom door crashed open and someone tore the covers off of her. A thick hand grabbed her ankle and dragged her off the mattress. So obviously she thinks she's about to be murdered.

Because she's in her own home. Like, it's the scariest thing ever. I'm, like, scared of the dark in general. So this would just absolutely ruin me. I would never go to sleep ever again. Lights on always. Yes. After what she's been through, too. Yes, a trauma she's already been through. I just can't even imagine. Yep. So two men had their hands on her. And they cover her mouth because she's screaming. They handcuff her.

She's kicking. She's screaming for her parents to help her. And then she sees her because she's like, I'm being kidnapped. My parents don't know about this. Yeah. She sees her parents peeking out through their bedroom door with like tears going down their face just watching this happen. It makes me sick. It would destroy me. Sick. Which

Which I'm also like, if her parents, because we're about to talk about, which I feel like most of our listeners probably know a lot of Paris's story. We're about to get into like these horrible schools that she had to go through. If they see her being dragged out in such a physical manner, don't you think like, wow, this probably isn't a great place for us to be sending our kids to. I just, I will never understand how there's so many people that...

think this is a good idea. Yeah. Right? Or think that this is the only option, the last resort. Like, this is insane. And I looked up to see, like, if these things were still around, like, this Provo specifically, which I'm sure we're about to get into. Yes, we are. But the fact that it's still open, I can't. I mean, Iris is, like, that's all, that's, like, what she's, like, putting her life's work is to make sure that these...

quote schools are forever you know I can't believe that people hear these things and then they still are like yeah I also my kinder crazy I think like also just as humans and we're about to talk about what these schools are like when you hear that something so horrific is happening you're like surely that can't happen anymore because it's like our minds don't even want to go there I was shocked

Yeah. It was still open. Shocked. And that's someone as high profile as Paris Hilton. Not like she has more value than anyone else. But you're like, wow, Paris Hilton can be sent there. We've got to like save these kids that are in there now. Yeah. So she does get sent to the school. It's like a wilderness camp, I say in quotes. But really what these kids were doing was manual labor all day long. Paris said it was like a boot camp. She stripped search in front of everyone when she gets there.

Here are some of the rules at this school. Oh, no. We've got a list. No swearing, singing, humming, throat clearing, dancing, skipping, spinning, touching, hugging, kissing, holding hands, crossing your legs. I've like already in this span, I've broken so many rules. I know. And the throat clearing really makes you nervous because I'm like, oh, my God. I would do it accidentally. I could never. Shuffling feet, breathing too loud, talking about anything from home, like talking about your friends, talking about your family, talking about sports.

Where are we? No looking out the window without permission. No going to the bathroom without permission. Tess, I know that's in due to bathroom panic. No opening a door without permission. Like the list goes on and on. So they just really try to make them feel like absolute prisoners. I just don't understand how they think like that.

would make them want to be a great person right well i think they're just trying to break their spirit completely and they're trying to figure out how to punish them that's why it's like you can't breathe it's like just any reason to be able to punish them exactly it's it's just so awful so paris i mean we know from our past story like this girl likes to sneak out she likes to escape places so she was out i guess they were doing out

in the field doing work and she whispers to another girl and she's like let's get out of here tonight she's like I could get it sneaking out yeah I think I could break this place so they escape one night but they get caught and they bring both Paris and the other girl that was there back to the camp and they just beat the shit out of them in front of everyone oh my god I can't

To be made of an example out of. She gets to sent to another camp where she also escapes because it's like hell. She escapes from three different, quote, emotional growth schools. Please. Emotional growth. It's like emotional death. So Paris is begging her parents to go home. She's like, I'll never go to another nightclub again. I promise. Which also it's like.

It's just hard because she's escaping, which I think a normal parent would be like, if they're escaping from this place, they clearly don't want to be here. And I think Kathy and Rick were like, this is what she does. She sneaks out. They just don't trust. There's like no trust. There's no trust. And also these schools will tell parents like they're being dramatic. Yeah, they're not going to be like, we beat her up last night. It's insane. And even if they heard that, they probably like, just like the teacher thing, are thinking it's her fault or she deserved it in some way, which is...

I just... Like, a parent mindset. Like, how could you think that way? Yeah. And they even, like, because they have so much shame around this, they tell everyone that Paris is...

to a boarding school in London. Like, that's where everyone thinks. If you're lying about something like that, then obviously you have shame and know it's not a good idea. I just, I also would feel abandoned if I were Paris. Like, if I disappeared and you didn't, like, try to, like, find me and then someone was just like, oh, yeah, Claire went to a boarding school in London. Like, and no one asked questions. Oh, my God. You just feel so lonely. Like, it breaks my heart thinking about it.

Same, same. So then eventually Paris gets sent to Provo Canyon School, which is if you think that what we said was bad, apparently Provo Canyon is the absolute worst. Like it's even worse. And you can read her memoir for all the details about it.

we don't even have the time really like it's just so awful um so she's at uh provo canyon school she endured horrific abuse including solitary confinement forced medication restraint battery and strangulation um and yeah it's unbelievable that it still exists today i couldn't believe it i really couldn't believe it forced medication like were they trying to knock them out i think so and i also think that she said it like

I was watching the part yesterday, specifically in her documentary when she was talking about it, that they gave them medication in the morning and then, like, again at night. And I think it was just to, like... Like, to wake them up. Make them, like, a shell of a person, I think. She said people would just... She said, like, nothing behind the eyes type of vibe. And then she was trying to, like, not take the medication for a while. Yeah. Which is probably when you, like, realize, oh, that...

Taking these is messing me up. You're a teenager too. Your body is still, your mind and your body is still growing. Yeah. Like. They also did weird things. I don't know if she talked about this in documentary or the book where they would have these like horrific things where they would beat them, but also like cuddle sessions where they would make everyone like cuddle too. Ew. And everyone was like. These like grown men that are cuddling.

I think it was the students, like, how to cuddle each other. It was something like that. And there was a girl who was like, you just need to, like, accept it and do it. And also, all these people didn't trust each other, so these students would rat each other out. Yeah, that's what she did say, that they were supposed to hold on each other. Yeah. Because they were just trying to survive. It's just so gross. Except that, like...

In these schools, it's just, like, a bunch of people that want to see these kids go through horrible things or be so vulnerable. Like, they just get off on that. Yeah, they get amusement out of it. Yeah. Which is sick. I'm so proud of Paris for, like, talking about this. Because, again, like, what we said at the beginning, what people's minds said about her is that she's just, like, this spoiled kid and it's hard to relive these memories. And...

You never know what someone has gone through. Yeah. So finally, she gets released from Provo. She attended Provo for 11 months. And also, she said... That's a long time. That's so long. Right. She said also, because remember, her little brothers are 10 and 15 years younger than her. And so then she was at Provo for like...

a lot of the time and at these other schools. So when she got back out, they, like, didn't really know who she was or, like, how to interact with her. She turned 18 around this time. And also, by the way, her parents still today are like, well, you were out of control. Like, we just didn't have another option. Mm-hmm. Yeah, like, she says the, like...

the moving to the moon comment like in the documentary like yeah she stands by it she still thinks like she was validated in in doing all of this she just didn't know the schools were so bad yes just like it was never valid and Paris in love when Kathy doesn't show up when Paris because Paris goes to DC which we will talk about and like is it has a bipartisan bill to stop these schools and Kathy like won't show up to see her daughter like what a brave thing your daughter's doing and even just like

the just being where she was speaking on this get over yourself like that she cannot connect to she has such a deep embarrassment and guilt but like she will not own it yeah i like still would do anything to have a martini with her though like i just i'd be i'd be shaking it would be a show i would be shaking i'd be crying in the bathroom and i'd be quaking just put

She would definitely like say something that would wreck my self-confidence. Immediately starts it off with an insult. And she's like, what are we drinking? Yeah. She'd be like, is that, that's, that's what you're wearing to lunch? Yeah. And I like need it for some reason. You love a cold woman. I love a cold woman. It is true. It's something about me. And I'll dissect that later in therapy. But for now. So Paris is out of Provo.

And it's the early 2000s, baby. Here we go. Here we go. This is the time. It's the time, especially in L.A. Yeah. So she actually never finishes high school. She just gets right back into the scene. She can do what she wants, and she does move to L.A. in 1999. So now at this time, the paparazzi have digital cameras. They have videos where they're able to walk and talk. And they're able to talk.

And so it's like it's a whole new era of paparazzi. Things are different. And after being in Provo, Paris actually loves this. She's like, I felt beautiful. I bet. Yeah. She was like, I was in isolation. Also in Provo, I don't think you're allowed to look in the mirror.

That was also a thing. Okay. So she can do her hair and makeup now. She feels beautiful and she's getting attention. Well, yeah, she's having all these crowds of people running after her. I would eat it up. I'd be outside. I'd never go home. Yeah. You would never go home. You're beautiful. You're amazing. Whereas in Provo, they're telling her the opposite. Yeah. And again, it's like,

all that validation is coming from strangers where your family is telling you the opposite too. God, it's just like how she is surviving now is crazy. But you like understand why she was out. And she seems so optimistic still and sweet. Well, yes. That's what's so

She still does. And she said, quote, I was just a teenager having fun without apology and without inhibition. That made fun people want to hang out with me. And when I showed up to a party with a crew of models, actors, and socialites, the paparazzi always followed. Event planners really wanted me. Like, I think she was genuinely enjoying herself. She was. I mean, she deserved it. She deserved it. No kidding. So at this time, Nikki is kind of getting in the scene.

Paris and Nikki do a shoot for Vanity Fair that was shot by David LaChapelle. Do you recognize that name, Tess? Did you, Jessica? He did Britney. He did the Rolling Stones cover with Britney in the teenage room. Stuffed animal.

Yes. God, it is iconic and troubling. But like, he must have been like the photographer of the early 2000s. So they at first were just doing a photo shoot with him and they were running all over LA. They go back to Brooklawn and which is her grandparents house and her grandparents didn't know that they were doing a shoot there. I think it might have probably just been David LaChapelle and Nikki in Paris. Yeah.

They're in the bathroom. They're like throwing up the middle finger and all this stuff. And then all of a sudden Vanity Fair calls them and they're like, we really want to do this. We want to put you on the cover and do this whole photo shoot. And I guess Kathy was like, absolutely not. You cannot have these pictures, especially Paris, like throwing up the middle finger at Brooklyn.

And then I guess he was like, we'll do a whole story on them. Or Kathy's conditions were if you do a whole story, then you can use their pictures. I mean, that's fair. Yeah, I agree. That's a good move. But I was like, Kathy, you're so boring. You're so boring.

Calm down. It's so true. And David LaChapelle said on Paris at this time, quote, Paris had a charisma back then that you couldn't take your eyes off of. She would giggle and laugh and be effervescent and take up a room. That's our girl. That's our girl. She's so cute. They never could take it away from her. No. Wow. Thank God. I know. And this is when she starts to monetize on it, too. She's like, you want me to party? Prove it.

Getting paid to party, honey. Getting paid to party. And she didn't even realize it at the time, but she's turning herself into a startup. Mm-hmm. Yeah. She literally just made a business from herself. Yes. Just herself. Before Kim K, before anyone else did it. She was the OG. She really was. She taught Kim how to do it. Kim was cleaning her closet. At the start. Which we will get to. Oh, my gosh.

So by 2001, Paris Hilton had become one of the biggest stars on and off the catwalk. So she is in the zeitgeist. But in 2003 is when Paris becomes a true household name and an international star because of a little show called The Simple Life. And we're going to take a quick break here, but we will be right back.

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I'm Jalenta Greenberg. And I'm Kristen Meinzer. You may know us from our podcast, By the Book. And together, we also host How to Be Fine. In each episode of How to Be Fine, we dive into the good and the bad side of the wellness industry, from charlatan influencers to science-backed studies on happiness. And all this season, we're going deep on the subject of friendship. Why is it that so many of us have so few friends right now?

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Okay, we are back. Time to talk Simple Life, which I've been so excited to chat about. So Simple Life started because a WME agent, Mark Itkin, called the real world creators with an idea. An unscripted show inspired by the 1960s rags to riches Green Acres. Did you guys ever watch that show? Oh my God. Well, why would you? Because it's like...

For some reason, I watched it as a kid a lot. It was on TV Land. TV Land. I see this for you. Yeah. But actually, you know, it's funny because have you ever heard of Zsa Zsa Gabor? Yeah. So Zsa Zsa Gabor was one of the leads on that show. And Zsa Zsa Gabor was also married to Paris' either grandfather or great-grandfather. Oh.

So it all kind of ties together. Everyone is connected. At the same time, a casting exec at Fox met with 22-year-old Paris about a potential television opportunity. And so he's like, I'm meeting with Paris Hilton for a show. And they're like, we want to do this Green Acres-like show. Let's combine forces. From this, the concept of The Simple Life was born. And so if you guys, because we have some listeners that...

We're not even alive. Simple life was on. That was a tough sentence to get out. If you guys have not watched it, please go watch it on Amazon right now. But the concept of the show is that two heiresses would spend several weeks living among an all-American family without credit cards, cell phones, or stylists and working odd jobs.

Initially, the show was supposed to be Paris and Nikki, her sister. Yeah. Oh. Interesting. Yeah. Which, can you imagine? No. I cannot. It's like haunting to me to think of. No, Nikki would not do well. Well, Paris signed on immediately, and Nikki was like, that's so embarrassing. Like, I would never do this. And Paris was like, it's funny. Yeah, she's really, like, serious, isn't she? Well, Nikki said, I don't want to be funny. I want to be classy. Yeah.

Of course. So Simple Life is definitely not for you, babe. You can be both. Yeah. True. Yeah. We can be all things. So Nikki's out. But they were like, okay, who else should we fill in with this? And Paris is like, I know just the person. Truly just the gal. Truly. Paris suggested her childhood friend, Nicole Richie, who is the daughter of Lionel Richie. And also, I feel like with our Gen Z listeners, the older sister of Sophia Richie is how you could refer to her now. That is so crazy. Isn't it crazy? Wild.

I feel like Sophia Richie, would you just consider her an influencer now? Or would you say like a model and influencer? I just feel like I don't know what, I don't know that much about what else she does outside of

just what I see on social media, but I know social media is not like her job, but it's like, it's like where she's most known. Right. Which I feel like makes her an influencer. Same. I would say she's like a socialite influencer. Yeah. What a life. Gorgeous. What a life. So they bring Nicole in for an interview and they record her in Paris and they were just like talking about high school and reminiscing and they're, they record it and they were like, that's magic. Wow.

we have to cast her. So it was. So actually before they started filming though, Nicole had to go to rehab before they started shooting. So yeah. So at one point Tess, they were like, maybe this isn't going to work with Nicole. So we might need to recast. At which point Kathy suggested her sister, Kyle. Yeah.

And so they actually go and interview future Real Housewives of Beverly Hills star Kyle Richards to go on Simple Life with Paris. What a weird combo. Kyle would have been

I'm sorry. I love Kyle, but she would have been so annoying. You guys, Kyle is in the first episode of The Simple Life. Yeah, just like trying to be funny, but not funny. She would have been. One season. Done. Well, they said that Kyle told her in the end she wasn't interested in leaving her kids for weeks at a time, which I like at first I was like, sure, Jan. But then I was like, actually, Kyle loved her kids so much. I could see that. I think when Portia was like a baby, she was like, she wouldn't let them go to sleep over. Well, I don't think Portia was born.

2002 or 2003? Or was she born? No. No, I think Portia was born like 2007 or 8. Oh my God. It's just like... But yeah, she's so attached to her kids. Yeah. So she wouldn't leave. But just imagine a world where the simple life was Paris and Kyle Richards. I don't know if I want to. I can't even picture it. I just don't know. Me either. But anyways, rehab didn't hold them back.

And they began filming. The show eventually lands filming with the Leddings family in Altus, Arkansas, which I didn't realize that Altus is an hour away from my hometown. Love. They have a population of 800. Wow. Yeah, which I think it's even, I looked it up, it's like actually 600 now. We are climbing slowly the show.

But the family is so sweet. And, like, this is where Paris and Nicole start making their public persona and, like, carving out these characters. And actually, I feel like it's been revealed now that, like, those were actually characters. Yes. I was watching the documentary. And when she had the girls from Provo over to her house, she was like, we watched The Simple Life. And we were like, you know how to use a mop.

Well, which is crazy. That's an interesting point. They were like, we had to clean all day long. We knew you knew exactly what to do when you were acting like you didn't. Which is crazy because like the first time I was ever really, you know, seeing her was in that sense of she doesn't even know how to like clean at all. She's so privileged. She didn't know what Walmart was. Which is, it's just wild that they thought to do.

not be like fully themselves. Yeah. That they were putting on a character. It's a projection. Well, it is comedy gold though. It works. And they told Paris, they're like, you're going to be the dumb blonde character and Nicole, you're going to be like the wild child. Yeah. And go. And it's like, it's scripted in a way of like,

obviously they knew they were going to do a terrible job at these jobs. Yeah. They didn't tell them what to say. And like, this is when that's hot, like really starts coming on to it. And like, Nicole is so funny. Nicole is so funny. They were just the one liners. I just watched an episode where Nicole is making out with this random 18 year olds in Arkansas. And she's like, you're a hot bitch. Sorry.

I can't. I can't. Braxton, you're so hot right now. You're so hot right now. She says that to like a six-year-old. It's so... Three. Wait, so the one where she put on like the nursing bra, there was an episode of Simple Life where she's like pretends to breastfeed, but she's wearing one of those bras that you could put milk into. Oh my God. I just remember it so vividly. That's like one of my favorite episodes because it was just like...

It's like, you'll never realize. What is even going on? It's so funny. Like, it's such a great content. And also that family is actually, like, so sweet. Yeah, they are very sweet. All the families they had were so nice. So nice, yeah. So this show actually goes on to be multiple seasons. It is just, it was, they struck gold. Like, 13 million people watched the premiere on December 2nd, 2013.

million people 2003 yeah it's crazy so it's massive actually I wanted to point out if you do watch the first season of The Simple Life Paris does go into baby voices but she actually uses her real voice a lot more than you think which I remember when she resurfaced hearing her real voice for the first time because she really leans into the baby voice and it is shocking it's such a different octave she goes in and out of it too in an interview it's like

Oh, I love it. That TikTok sound. I love it too. That TikTok sound when you see your female co-workers in a man's show. It's like, you're beautiful and you are a star. It's so good. But you know what's interesting? And actually, I love that none of us brought this up. When you think about Paris Hilton, you know what came out right before Simple Life premiered? Her sex tape? I like don't...

Paris on sex tape. One night in Paris. So back here for me. I never. Right. Just feel like she is the farthest, like farthest thing, like away from that tape. Right. That it, it's so, it's crazy. Cause it's so, it like feels like it still lingers in Kim's life. But with Paris, I feel like there's people that are like, what, what are you talking about?

Exactly. That's so true. And so One Night in Paris was the sex tape. I think it was actually the first celebrity sex tapes come out after Pamela Anderson. Like, I feel like Pamela Anderson's was definitely the first celebrity sex tape. Both Pamela Anderson, well, all of them have come out without their permission. Yeah. So what happened in 2004, right before the premiere, Paris and Nicole were doing press everywhere because it's the best premiere. They're traveling the world. They were in Australia doing press everywhere.

Paris gets a call and they're like, there's a 30 second clip going around the internet of you having sex. And they're claiming that there's a longer version of this tape. Oh,

Can you imagine getting that call? So the story behind the sex tape is Paris's ex-boyfriend, Rick Solomon, which she refers to in her book as scum, which I think that we should just refer to it like that. Let's just continue to say scum. Yeah, scum. Leads their sex tape that was made in 2000, three years or earlier. She was 19 years old when this tape was made. She was a literal teenager. I think that's like,

we're it's like thank god we're at a point where if that were to happen today everyone would be like you're a scum yeah like back then everyone was looking at her and shaming her yeah right and they weren't they probably were praising him too like you did that like heck yeah whereas like now it would be disgusting and everyone would be in agreement on that did she know

Did you know that she was being recorded or was that? So she says that she doesn't remember. She doesn't remember much about that night because she was drinking and took Quaaludes because she didn't want to make the tape because she told him like he kept asking her like make a sex tape with me, make a sex tape. And she was like, I don't want to. And then he would say like it's something that he did with other women.

women and then he said to get her to be like wait i should do it yep she said quote he told me if i wouldn't do it he could easily find someone who would and that was the worst thing i could think of yeah oh please to be dumped by the grown man because i was a stupid kid who didn't know how to play grown-up games so sad how old was he do we know do we know he was older i think for sure it's like so sad that like he probably was this older guy and she was just like

Yeah. Yeah. Impress him. Yes. I don't want to like make him upset or like lose him. She said the truth is I wanted to be alive in a sensual way. I wanted to feel like a woman who's comfortable in her own skin. Which like God, we've all done something like that, you know, when like you're young and you're like, okay, I guess if he wants me to do this and then that has to be publicly shown, you know. Oh, it's just so awful. So she begs him not to release the tapes.

but Scum said that he had every right to sell something that belonged to him and also it was going to have a lot of financial value disgusting every right is crazy yep I think

I think I was watching something that said like revenge porn was not a thing back then. So it wasn't even like illegal. I just saw a clip of Kamala Harris, I think from like 2019. And she's been fighting to like against this revenge porn thing. And she's like, even the term revenge porn needs to be

Not said because revenge, it makes it seem like that the woman did something to deserve that. And then porn is like, porn is an act that you were creating together. Like this is something that's like public. Like everything associated with that word is taboo. Yeah. The roots are very sexist and icky of that. Like what that means. Exactly. And she talks about like how difficult it was because of her trauma to find her own sexuality because she,

And how it is still now for her as a grown adult woman because it's been taken from her and it's been a joke in the media for so long. Like something that is the most private thing in someone's life and then it's made public and then made to be a joke. Her sexuality has been taken from her in every aspect of her whole girlhood and womanhood. Yeah. Like it's so upsetting. She like wasn't – she's just like never been able to –

even just be her. To feel safe. Yes. Exactly. The tape was made when she was still a teenager and released and monetized against her will. That's like also this other thing. Because then they own it. Yeah. It's like not her property. It's whoever then gets the... Her body. People are making money off of it. That's the same thing with Pamela Anderson. They owned it. She had no... Yeah.

And then public outrage, scorn, and disgust came down on Paris instead of the man who released it and the creeps who bought it. I mean, I remember this in middle school when this happened, and the conversation around it was very much like, she made a sex tape? Like, that's kind of like, hmm. Like, it was like judging her. Yeah, slut-jamming, which was so big in the early 2000s. Yeah. I think there's so much around that where people are like, you shouldn't take a video or a photo. Like, of course it's going to get out there. Well, you did it. But it's like, no.

no no no like it's we should also be holding it accountable that someone was effed up enough to release that like that should be where most of the shame is that someone's not trustworthy well that's like the thing about the language around porn like

this is something that is made in private and that you are sending just to one person that you're expecting to keep private. Yeah. You know, it's not porn. Right. And like, we also judge like women that are sexual. There's no way for a woman to be sexual or to like to have sex or to be horny or any of that without. It's just so, it makes people uncomfortable or something. And so that just like embodies all of that. Another isolating experience. Yes. No kidding. I can't. Horrible. I want this woman to find joy. Me too. I think she's finally

I think so too. I think so too. Yeah, we're getting there, guys. So she goes into hiding for a couple weeks, but she knows that she can't do that forever. Her family's consensus was that lawsuits would only bring it more attention. Like, we know how this family operates. It's like, we don't talk about hard things because if we don't talk about it, right? If we don't talk about it, then it never happened. Like, that's how Kathy is. That's disgusting because they have the money for this. Like, it would be one thing if they were like, we can't put in... Take him down.

and show everybody what happens when you do these things. If you leak something, you're going to be shut down. Yep. So they didn't fight it. They just let it be. But she does actually, the way that she makes her appearance again is an SNL skit with Jimmy Fallon. Mm-hmm.

I didn't realize that was the first time that she was... That's like how she reappeared. And they like made a joke about the whole thing, which I'm like, I don't know if I could have done that. That's a lot. It's a lot. And like good for her for being able to do that. I wonder like if we, if she were in this room and like if we could really be honest with her, be like, did that feel liberating for you or did that feel humiliating for you? And like, did you have to do that? Yeah. The whole skit it's on YouTube is like him being like,

So, is there, like, a back entrance to the Hilton hotels and stuff? And they're doing, like, you know, like, sexual innu... Is that the word? Innuendos? Yeah. Referring to it. I would maybe guess that they're not. I mean, I wouldn't love that. But... Yeah, I don't know. But I guess, you know, she might say, if I'm laughing at myself, then you can't laugh at me. You know what I'm saying? I hope that she had, like, a part of making that joke, you know? I hope so, too. I mean, she crushes it. Hopefully, they were like, do you even want to go there?

And then they were like, and then she was like, yeah, sure. And then they like threw it through them out there. I mean, she is a comedy queen. Like, and she did crush it. Okay. I do want to talk about this though. Do you know the rumors about why Nicole and Paris had a falling out? I was just about to bring this up about the SNL like screening that she had. Yes.

Wait, I don't know. Go, Chrissy. You do, I think. Chrissy, go off. What happened? I heard that the night that Paris was on SNL, that there had been some murmurs of Nicole being kind of jealous that Paris was getting all this attention just like by herself, like she was hosting SNL by herself and stuff. And so she was going to have a screening of Paris on SNL. But instead, she played her sex tape.

to a group of people. Yeah, like allegedly she played the sex tape and they all laughed and giggled about her tape and

instead of watching her on SNL. Oh, my God. And that this was the reason why they were, like, not friends anymore and that there was some drama about doing further seasons of Simple Life. I mean, no kidding. How do you recover from that? Ever talk to Nicole again? What the heck? Do you think that's true, that she really did that? Has she ever spoken on it? I mean, I will say that the timeline of, like, them not doing it after, or, like, them having to change how they were going to do Simple Life was...

Something definitely happened between them. I mean, wouldn't put it past Nicole. She has mean girl energy. Well, yeah. Even on Sins of Life, she said some things that I mean. That was some petty, like, petty the house. I think she really had some, like, deep insecurities that she took out on Paris. I think so, too. And Paris said, what Paris has said is, like, Nicole knows what she did. And I think there were, like, there had been, yes, yeah, there was, like, that interview, and it did make it seem, like,

there was something that was almost unforgivable that had occurred. Your best friend that's showing the most, like, fucked up thing that's ever happened? I'm like, I say almost because, like, I guess they're good. I guess they're forgivable. She has forgiven her now to a degree, but, like, I would never. I will say that in, like, a

I hear like having the conversation right now though, of like all the things in the past. Cause after I heard that and like, I was like on my way here, I was like, how could she ever talk to her again, ever speak to her again. But I'm like, there's so many like horrible people in her life and their, her family that she's had to like, she still speaks to her mom. I'm like, Oh, no wonder she spoke to Nicole. Wow. You're so right. She's just, I think she's a forgiving person because so many, so much bad stuff has happened to her. You kind of are just like, well, that's crazy. I'm like,

Even if time has passed and she did that to me when we were early 20s, like teenagers, I would never. I could never. Disgusting. Yeah. And I don't know either of these two personally, obviously. Would love to. But I do think that Nicole has put in the work in her life. I think so too. And I think she's evolved a lot as a person too. And I think she would say that she has. Yeah. I think so too. Yeah.

But despite all of this, I know. Paris comes out on top, as she always does. She releases an album on August 22nd, 2006, called Paris. The album reached number six on Billboard 200, sold over 600,000 copies worldwide. The lead single is Stars Are Blind. Even this.

even though it's iconic like I think I had that as a ringtone at one point I love that I miss I wish I could bring back songs as ringtones can you

I think you can. You can? I think you can. I'm getting on that today. Same. What song? Yeah. That's a great question. I'm like, what song would my song be? I'd want something to be like childhood nostalgia. Yes. Something fun. Like a Hilary Duff song maybe. I mean, I might even do Stars Are Blind right now. You do it for your birthday. Yeah. I love a Hilary Duff moment. Of course, Hilary Duff. Someone had like a Kim Possible like text. Oh, that's fun. I love that. Oh my God, the nostalgia of this episode. It's killing me.

So she does more TV shows or she does TV shows and movies. I remember that horror movie that she did. It

It was like Wax or something. House of Wax. House of Wax. Yes. Where they allegedly had an affair. Oh, I'm sure. And he cheated on Sophia Bush with Paris Hilton allegedly. In her book, she talks about the evolution of technology. And then once she's on Twitter, she realized that once she talks about products, the products sell out. So people start sending her so much free shit. So she hires her friend, Kim Kardashian, to come organize her closet. And Kim gets on eBay and starts selling things for Paris. eBay.

Kim on eBay just visualizing that is very satisfying. Oh, my God. You know what? I would trust Kimberly to organize my closet, though. Oh, she's so deep, babe. She's so smart. Oh, yeah. I think there was no better person for the job. And then they start walking around and doing paparazzi together, too. It's just crazy to think about. I know. It is, like...

Wow, I love seeing scenes on the Kardashians or on Paris in Love with the Kardashians and Paris and the Hiltons together. And it's always, there's always like some uneasiness where they don't really know how to talk to each other anymore. But they're like, people would love this. Yes. You know? There's like competitiveness. I think so too. Around this time, the Paris, Britney and Lindsay famous paparazzi photo happened. Oh, that's so iconic.

And then this was like definitely an era of the DUI photos from celebrities. Everyone was fucked up driving. Sunglasses on. Lindsay Lohan has so many DUI photos. Yeah, she does. Yeah. Well, Paris gets hers in 2006, September 7th, 2006.

She was arrested by the LAPD and charged with driving under the influence with a black blood alcohol content of 0.08, which I think actually... Isn't that only like three drinks? I don't even... I don't know what's... I think she was like arrested and I don't think that 0.08 is, but I think she was arrested at like right at the legal limit or something like that. What is the legal limit? I thought... Wait.

I don't know. Something like that. She probably had like one drink too many. Or like maybe a margarita. She's just so small. I mean, I guess it depends on what you've had to eat. That's so true. Well, I think she did say she was like, I didn't eat anything today and I had a margarita or something like that. But it's like, always have a base. You've got to have a little food with a little drink. You've got to have a base.

Also, it's like so unacceptable for – well, it's unacceptable for anyone to get a DUI, but especially celebrities. That have all the money to have a driver. It's ridiculous. I feel like nowadays that's like one of the things where it's like it's a way bigger deal now. Like people take it way more seriously, like the Justin Timberlake thing. Oh, my God. I know. Well, like as if I needed another reason. He's our enemy on the show. We don't like – Rightfully so.

We don't love. I mean, we've done an episode on Britney and we did an episode of the early 2000s talking about the Super Bowl. Like he just. And we've done an NSYNC episode. Oh, yeah, we have. And everything just goes back to we don't like him. Time and time again, he's just disappointed us. Yeah.

We just go on and on. Still around. Still around. At this time, a 2006 poll conducted by the Associated Press and AOL, RIP, concluded that Hilton was the second worst celebrity role model behind Britney Spears. Oh, fuck off. I agree. They like to say that about women. Men are doing the same shit. Yes. And like...

did Paris and did Paris Hilton ever set out to be a role model?

Nope. That's not her job. I think that's so sad. Like, with all the context, obviously at the time, like, no one had the context, but it's just like, that's so fucked up. It is. And like, why are we even doing these polls? All of these athletes and male poll stars that are like cheating on their wives, doing drugs. Also, like, celebrities should not be our moral compass. Like, yeah. No. Right. Even though, like, God, I'm obsessed. That's why we're here. We'll do whatever Taylor Swift does. Don't get me started. You guys, I love you.

We have a Swifty in the house. I'm shocked that we haven't. There's always a lyric that pops out somewhere. We're just so deep in a different world. Truly. I was like, before I came, I was watching your Jake Shane episode. And I was mostly because I was like, I need to see, what are they, Swifties?

Like, what's the vibe? And I was like, this one is going to tell me if they are. And I was like, I know he's going to bring it up. The day after Torture Poets was released. Oh. So we were, like, on. We were in it. Yeah, because he had said, like, I hadn't listened to it by myself. And I was like, okay, it must have just come out. Yes. Oh, no. Yeah. We were in it. I had listened to it before. Yes, I am obsessed. I am a freak. We're still in it. I am. Dear Tess, I love you. Thank you for the live stream. Oh. I am tuned in. Yes. Watching. Love. Watching, meeting every second. Of course. We love it. Then, good.

Going with Kim, Paris and Kim go to Ibiza. Ibiza? Ibiza. I like to party in Ibiza. I feel so pretentious being like Ibiza and embarrassed. But like they went to Ibiza. Yeah, same. And this is where Paris falls in love with DJing. She sees it. I love that she loves it. It just makes sense. I mean, Ibiza is the place. She's like, how can I get paid to party for the rest of my life?

So eventually she gets into DJing and now she is getting paid up to a million dollars a night to DJ. Go off.

When Olivia Rodrigo hired Paris for her Grammy, like her first Grammys after party, like to celebrate her Grammys, she had Paris DJ and I thought it was the most iconic thing ever. Wow, like women supporting, like she's like, you paved like the path. She did. Oh, I love that. Oh my God. What a dream to get Paris home to DJ your party. She's just like acknowledging that she's an icon and also like, I'm sure Paris is like, yes! I wish she could DJ my wedding. Same! Could you imagine? I'm like, does anyone know any, uh,

if you can get that. Any kind of discount, please. Paris, are you listening now? A little discount? Yeah, please. A discount on a million dollars. Who knows what will happen to this podcast between then? Who knows? But speaking of rich stuff, between 2008 and 2009, Paris' house was burgled? Burgled? Burglarized? Burglarized? Impossible word to say. But the bling ring got her.

That's crazy. Iconic also. Yes, iconic. If you guys didn't know, the bling ring was a group of kids in LA. I always forget the list of the houses. Yes. Rachel Bilson, Paris Hilton. Rachel Bilson is so random. I know. Isn't Audrina Patrick from the Hills? I think her house got into it. And a couple guys that I'm forgetting. Yeah. Okay, so she was the group's first and main celebrity target with the majority of the stolen property belonging to her. They reportedly broke into her house seven times. Wow.

Yeah, and it wasn't until nearly $2 million worth of jewelry, clothing, cash, and other items were stolen that she made a report.

That's what happens when you get greedy. Well, oh my God, yeah. Like, what the heck? Does she not have security? Probably not at this time. But also, if you guys watch Paris in Love, she has, like, storage units of stuff that she, like, she just has so much stuff. Sona's Kim is like a warehouse. It's like a Costco. I just. It's crazy. What do you do with that?

So I guess like you wouldn't notice unless $2 million worth were stolen if you have that much stuff. But what I love is that she allowed Sofia Coppola to shoot some scenes for The Bling Ring at her house. That's so excellent. I love that. Sisterhood. Love it. And then like I feel like in the 2010s,

Paris gets a little quiet in America. Like, she's going over to Europe and she's DJing a lot. But she kind of disappeared. She actually went to jail for a couple, like, 23 days or something like that. Because I think she was driving with her headlights off. Something... I mean, this is, like, the most half-assed research at the end. Being like, I think...

This is where we say go do your research. Yeah. And I think or do your homework. And then I think after jail she went over to Europe and was DJing for a while. But she is still making bank because she made over two billion dollars in gross revenue from 17 fragrances. I think her like it's Europe and Asia. Her fragrances are huge. She's huge in Asia. She's huge. Love her. They love her. We love.

her what's not to love she makes her reappearance which is just so crazy because it feels like she's everywhere still right now I feel

There was like a blip of time where I'm like, you know, she's not as popping. And then it is when like the Kardashians have like, right. Like taking that gap and like filled it. But she's like more back than ever. I feel. I completely agree. Completely agree. Cause there was a time where it was like, oh yeah, she was just very early two thousands and that's it. And what really brings her back into culture is her 2020 documentary. This is Paris. It received over 16 million views in the first month of its released.

And this is also where she really did like rebrand herself in a way because before she was just like the early 2000s party girl and then we learned about her past and like what amazing... Yeah, she was really opening up about that and then I feel like is when people started to realize like...

She didn't do that voice. Because apparently when they started doing the documentary, they were going to come from this place of like boss babe. And then she started talking about some experiences and the director was like, would you please open up more about that? And then that's what the documentary turned into. What a beautiful journey for her. Even for them to like...

you know, put that out there or like to acknowledge that it might've even been one of the first times that someone has ever been like, no, you should tell that story. Like, like I'm curious to, to hear about your life, like not just like this image, like I want to get to know you. And it's interesting that you say like, this is the first time we heard her without her baby voice because in the opening of the documentary, she says,

I'll just try to be normal. Sorry, I'm so used to playing a character that it's hard for me to be normal. When cameras are around, I always turn into someone else. It makes me so sad. Same. But she does come back out stronger than ever. She does so many brand deals. She has a cookware line with Walmart. She launched several NFT lines.

hot yeah um she is political she has um continues to meet with a bipartisan group of lawmakers to advocate for a newly introduced bill to regulate troubled teen facilities quote troubled teen facilities meant for young people struggling with behavioral issues and substance abuse the bill would create federal data collection and reporting standards for the troubled teen industry and provide states with the best practices to prevent abuse i just don't know how anyone would be against that right well if

I know. People in this country. But like, thank God. Especially like where some of those are, like in Utah. Yes, it's so true. But I love that clip where she's like, legislation is hot. It is hot. It is hot. It's hot to speak your mind and to get shit done. Let the girls

Yes. Let the girlies know. Her net worth, this is without her family wealth because her grandfather, Baron Hilton, reshaped his will in 2007, redirecting 97% of his $4.5 billion fortune to charity rather than his family. Okay.

Amazing. So it's drastically. They don't need it. Yes, they don't. It is. I'm just surprised. That's really nice. Well, even with 97% of his $4.5 billion fortune, they still have $135 million to be shared among them. But there's so many family members. Like $135 million goes quick. So this is Paris Hilton's net worth without her family money is reportedly $300 million. Amazing.

God. Without her family's money. I feel like more people need to know that. That is really great. Whenever they see her, they're probably like, oh, she's just living on her family. No. It's all her. It is all her. Taylor Swift money. Yes. And that is all her hard work. And she's talked about that in the documentary and in Paris in Love. She's like, I'm addicted to work. And like, I want to be. I mean, she really is. She is. And she's like, I want my wealth to be my own and not my family's. Yeah. It is pretty incredible that 97. That's really. 300 million.

Yeah, 300 million. I mean, she really made a brand for herself. Yeah, she did. Her name and knew how to go about it and do it and keep it up. Yes. Yes. And she continues to do that. The hardest thing. Momentum. Yes. Mm-hmm.

She married her husband, Carter Ream, and they have that show, Paris and Love. She has two kids, a son, Phoenix, and a daughter, London, that she had via surrogate. What do you think about Carter? I will say I was very unsure. I was super skeptical about him before I was watching this show, mostly because she'd been engaged a couple of times. Oh, my God. I just, like,

Didn't really know how to feel about her in relationships if she even really wanted that. Right. Or if she maybe was wanting this, like, fantasy and, like, just didn't want to go through with getting married. And then I was just skeptical of maybe his intentions or who he was. But in watching the show, I was like, okay, I think I like him. He is an odd duck. He is very odd. He's a strange man.

man but i think he kind of lets her be herself yes um and that i i liked yeah they are they're both strange people so you know they are strange people in the best way in the most loving way i have yes two things i want to say first do you remember her engagement to that guy that it looked like they reenacted the engage i think it's a guy that went in the snow that was the strangest video that was very i've ever seen really get the best vibes

from him. I know, and I think that, is that who she's engaged to in her documentary? Yeah, the guy who did, like, support her DJing? I think that's what it was. I think maybe. Yeah, I think so too. And then the second thing is, did you know that Carter has a kid? Hmm? I always forget about this. Okay, well, we're just gonna, see, remember I said my opinion on him was...

Was just based on the reality show, guys. Yes. And obviously, they're going to paint him in a good light there. I know. So, I don't really know that much about – more about it. But, like, just do your homework and look it up on there. That is crazy. But I really hope that he – Oh, I don't like that. I know. I really hope that – I think what we're all saying we don't like that is because it's not brought up once on the show. Yeah, I –

I don't love it when guys just don't acknowledge that they have other kids. That they're a father. Yeah. Or that they're a father because I was just saying this was his first child ever. I know. There's no mentions on the show because they- It is really weird. A whole season is them having a baby together and you would think like-

You know, they're experiencing it for the first time. I know. Yep. And that's certainly how it comes across. Yep. I know. So I hope that Paris, that you are taken care of. And if you're ever not, we will ride at dawn for you. We got you. Let us know what you need. Yeah. You call us.

But that is Paris Hilton. Well done, Claire. Thanks, guys. What a treat. She is a treat. Any, like, closing thoughts? Any thoughts about Paris and love? Chrissy, your experiences being a pop culture expert with Paris? I mean, I think she's just such a fascinating topic because she goes across, like, so many different, like, eras in pop culture that it's, like, so many things are

that have happened, like the reaction would be so different today. Yeah. And that's just like the craziest part to think about, like the sex tape. And if that were to come out today, like the reaction would be different and like,

I don't know how she's done it, but I can admire it. I can sit back and really admire that. Same. Well said. Well said. Tess, any thoughts? I just think it's, like, such a great lesson of, like, not trying to put women in boxes of, like, stereotypes. I think a lot of people looked at her as this dumb blonde. You never know what anyone has gone through. You never know how smart someone is. And also, like, the masks that you wear to try to protect yourself. And, like, I think a lot of women in Hollywood, like, we talk so much about...

pop stars on this show and, you know, women that were having to protect themselves and what that looks like. So just like, don't judge anyone until you know the backstory. Totally. A total lesson of not judging anyone. Would love to have her on the show. I would love to like, honestly, smoke a joint with her. And I wonder if she like smokes.

I feel like she would. I would love that. She gives that vibe. I think she doesn't drink that much, but she does smoke. I agree. I think Carter smokes a lot, too. I agree. So, Chrissy, we ask our guests all this. We ask every guest the same question. If you could smoke a joint with anyone in history dead or alive, who would it be? It's just, like, such a good question. I feel like there's just, like, so many. You know, like, when you're, like, put on the spot, you're like, oh, my God. No, no, that's okay. Who is even coming across? Yeah.

I feel like right now maybe like Kacey Musgraves. Oh,

You just made Claire. You are in the right room. She sings about it. I feel like she's like, and to be a country artist and to be singing about that, really rare. Okay. I knew I liked you. I'm like, we all just like that so well together. Like, I just know it'd be a fun time. Oh my God, can I join? Yes. Okay, great. Tess, you're coming along too, obviously. Oh my God. I know it'd be a good time. Well, Chrissy, where can our listeners find you? I am on social media as SpillSesh, mostly YouTube and TikTok. TikTok.

TikTok is more fun. TikTok is a good time. YouTube is the main. It's like, it's giving more serious. We're talking about things very professionally. But TikTok is like silly goofy. We're talking about what I just saw on the internet and reacting to it. We love that. We're going to put all of your stuff in the show notes. Yes. So make sure to follow Christy there. Yes. And follow us at Right Answers Mostly on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, all the tings. And we love you guys so much. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you.

Thank you. Thanks for having me. This was so much fun. This was such a treat. We'll see you guys next week. Yes. Goodbye. Bye.