Justice for the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders
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Welcome back to Write Answers Mostly, a podcast on what you didn't learn in history class, but you really wanted to. My name is Tess Palomo. My name is Claire Donald. And we have such an exciting episode today. I'm excited.

I've been looking forward to this. I was listening to music in the car, Thunderstruck to be exact, and I'm pumping myself up. We have been just waiting for this moment ever since, like, I mean, a few weeks ago is when we were like, we just got to get in there and talk about it. Well, you really spearheaded this movement, I feel like, within our friend group. I appreciate that. You were the first one. Wow.

I didn't even know what I was getting myself into. I know. It was like the night after I watched that Netflix movie with Nicole Kidman and Zac Efron. I still haven't watched it. I wouldn't say to watch it unless you want to like hate watch it really high like with someone like yellow goofy. But the problem is like even hate watching some of these rom-coms like it's not fun as much anymore. Like the Anne Hathaway one. I was just like I was pissed. I

I felt anger. Anger. And resentment that this is what we're left with in this world. For what? For what? Yeah. Give me a toxic rom-com. I miss them. So yeah, I'd watch that movie with hate. And then we were like, okay, let's turn on. We were like, oh, this preview looks good. And then we just were like, and my fiance was like, I think this is like a you show. Like, I want you to have this. And I was like, okay, get out. I was like, let me finish it. And I just went into like a hole and was just like, I cannot be stopped. I was laughing. I was crying. I mean, mostly crying. Same. Ugh.

But God, and then like dancing and just like, I couldn't take my eyes off of, I mean, we're talking about DCC. Oh, yes, guys. Of course. You know why we're here. We are going to talk about the history of DCC today. And then afterwards, we're going to then get into our thoughts, concerns, feelings about the documentary. Okay.

But before we do that, how the hell are you, Claire? Oh, I'm good. Tess and I tonight, guys, are going to see a screening. What's that movie even called? It Ends With Us. It Ends With Us. And then we're going to go see. We were invited by Spotify. Thank you. And then we're going to see a Q&A after with Colleen Hoover. And y'all know when we went to see Jessica Simpson at her book signing and we took mushrooms and peed a storm stage.

Three times, I think? I think so. So I think security don't come for us, but we are going to try to get Colleen Hoover. We're going to try to approach her and ask her to come on the show. We've been inspired by, I mean, our Spotify manager told us that we should. Yeah, so we're going to storm the stage. We're going to storm the stage. We're going to storm the Q&A.

There's two of us, so one of us should try first. Yes. It will be like a joint effort. Yes. We'll space it out. Exactly. But we were just dying because we were like, wow, like we're so excited to go tonight. And then we also were like, oh my God, it's a really late night. You guys, the movie starts at 740. This is how old we're getting. No, I'm like, I want to be in my bed.

my bed. I just want to be in the off. I'm going to have the option. And then I'm going home to Arkansas this week and I'm so excited. It's going to be so nice. So I'm excited to get some family time, some friends time, friend time. Soak it all up, baby. I'm going to try. Soak it all up. Nothing will be happening here that you're missing it. Like literally nothing. I guess that's true. I don't have a single thing that I'm like, oh yeah,

Yeah. No, it's summertime, and I know I have some Ramy Arkansas girly, so shout out to you guys. We will be in the same vicinity. Oh, cute. How are you, Tess? Oh, I'm good. We had a really fun weekend. We had my engagement party this weekend, which I'll talk more about on Premium. Yeah, join Premium in our show notes for two bonus episodes. Exactly, $7.99 a month. We just talk about more personal stuff on there. Yeah.

But we had friends in town. It was just really fun. We did a backyard thing. Shots were had. Shots were had. And I was not expecting that, to be honest. And I suffer at a shot. I suffer. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's just hard. It's just hard for me to take. It's hard for me to, like, die. Like, I used to be able to knock them back. Yeah. I mean, they're not, like, kind. But I do... Like, the...

When someone's like, let's all take a shot. It is the, it's community. It's community. I know. It is just like really fun. It is. I love it. Thank God we're in Leo season. And like, honestly, this episode is like very Leo season-esque. Yes. It's fun. It's a little dark. It's a showstopper. It's flirty. And big hair. Okay, Claire. So. I'm ready. The DCC.

What are my sources today? Well, I did watch a documentary, so Claire would be proud. I'm so proud. I watched America's Sweethearts, the doc on Netflix. And then we have time. Grandfather. Grandpapa. We have the New York Post. Oh. Did we say that that was...

someone, an aunt? I think we've said the New Yorker maybe, but I don't think we've said the Post. Not the Post. The Post is like Sonia Morgan to me. Well, like especially page six. Like that is Sonia. Sonia Rita. Truly. Yeah. So that can just be Sonia. She is family. So of course, like she's family. This one I will never use again. DallasCowboys.com. Oh yeah. No, that's a one and done-er. It's a one night stand. And I was like, I'm going to check some of these

stories on other, you know, just because that's very one-sided. Yeah, exactly. It's very biased. Had to get some, like, information. This is real journalism, people. You have to do a little bit of everything. The Dallas Morning News and Elle.com. Elle. She's sweet. She is chic. She's gorgeous. Nina, call us. Nina, I did DM her.

Okay, so Nina Garcia, guys, the chief editor-in-chief at Elle, follows us on Instagram at WriteAnswersMostly, which is – I'm just shook. Maybe she's just watching us. Guys, how major would an Elle story be on rail? We've always – it's in the journal. It's in the Manifestation Journal. Yes. Okay. And we're saying it here now. We're putting it into the universe officially. Elle, please. Please. Please, Elle. Yeah. So those are my sources.

And, okay, so we're going to start with the history. We're going to go back in time a little bit, and then we are going to chat. Gorgeous. Okay. So, Claire, the Dallas Cowboys have always had cheerleaders.

Tex Scram, the general... Tex Scram? So like Southern? Tex Scram. That's his last name, Tex Scram. His name is Tex and his last name is Scram? Yes. Scram. I love that word. If someone's getting on your nerves, just be like, Scram. I love it too and it's so Southern, isn't it? It is so Southern. So Tex Scram, the Cowboys general manager at the time... Wait, is it Scram or Graham? Scram. Okay. It is Scram. He had an extensive background in television and...

And he recognized that professional football had become more than just sports, but sports entertainment. Oh, ain't that the truth. So they needed the girlies, essentially, is what it comes down to, which is what it always comes down to. No, you always need the girlies. And also, the girlies saved the economy. You guys, our economy, if there was equal pay, by the way, do you realize how much better our economy would be? Have you seen the summer of 2023? No.

We will never forget it. Thank you, Taylor. Thank you, Barbie. Thank you, Beyonce. So he knew that the public liked pretty girls. He's not an idiot. He's just a man. He's just a man after all.

And so in 1960, he was like, I have an idea. Let's hire a bunch of models just to stand around as the athletes, I was going to say perform. There's a theater kid. As the athletes play. There we go. Okay, Tess, get in the zone. We're doing sports today. We're doing sports. It was a disaster. Oh, okay.

The models were beautiful, but they were not athletes. And they didn't really know what they were doing there. It was them just kind of standing in like three hours of extreme heat. Oh, my God. They were sweating. They didn't look well. Everyone was like, they seem to be in worse shape after the game than the football players. Oh, God. Which I'm like, God, what was happening? Did they not hydrate them? Well, probably. And also, the football players are training. And then all of a sudden, they're sticking these women down there being like...

Yeah, they're just like, go. Go. And like they plopped them and they were like. Go forth and be hot. I mean, truly, which is like not a bad thing, but it just wasn't working. So then they were like, OK, models are out. What about like dancers? They're still hot, but they can move their bodies. Like, of course, they're like not considering them like athletes, which they are. Come on. Come on. Can you? I mean, we'll get into it. I can't wait.

Um, so during the Cowboys preparations for their world championship title in the 1972 season, a new idea was born. Done, done, done. So little techs talk the idea over with this woman named Dee Brock, who managed high school students from Dallas,

Dallas Fort Worth. Yeah, from Dallas Fort Worth. Okay, yeah. That's separate than Dallas. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. And so they made this decision to expand the established football tradition of sideline cheerleaders into a more glamorous choreographed squad of accomplished dancers that would serve as a counterpoint to the game itself.

But did you say they're high school students at first? They were seeking out high school girlies who had been training. I see. But they're like, you know, they're used to this. Yes. And like, I think they had probably spent their entire life dancing. Yes, of course. And so, yeah, I think it was just this like change of like.

I mean, not that cheerleaders aren't incredibly talented, but I think they really wanted to stand out with these dancers that like had like major skill and that were trained in other form of dance as well. So Dee, the woman Dee Brock was like, okay, it's time to recruit the top dancers in America. And then this woman, Texi Waterman. So we have Tex. These are all made up names. I mean, this is hilarious. Yeah. It's like, it's kind of a joke. Yeah.

who also owned a dance studio in Dallas to judge the auditions and help create a squad of dancers to grace the sidelines of the Texas stadium. Is this a woman that we saw in the documentary? Yes. She looked so chic to me. She almost looked more like Martha Graham even to me. She was like wearing a black leotard and like big glasses. Oh, that one. Actually, I don't know if that it might be. Yeah. Because she's very chic. Like both of these women like started the whole thing.

So she was going to judge 60 women attended the first audition. And you know how many were chosen?

Ten. Seven. Seven? They were like, we are not messing around. Holy shit. Elite. No kidding. So then they started a training camp, which we see in the doc. So the women spent their summer at training camp with Texi, where cheers and chants were replaced with grand choreography and pirouettes.

Gorgeous. Okay, so they're just like, let's see it all. Let's see the technique. Let's see the technique. So when the 1972-73 NFL season kicked off that fall, it was a major turning point in cheerleading history. So the Dallas Cowboys introduced their new cheerleaders at Texas Stadium wearing new star-spangled uniforms and debuting an innovative,

an exciting new form of game day action. Were they the first, you know, pro team with a squad or with like a dance team?

I don't know, actually. Yeah. I'm not sure. But it was the first time ever anywhere that jazz dancing was blended with the kind of classic cheerleading brought to a football field. And that's how the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders were born. And there's nothing like them. There really isn't. And I was almost like, I forgot that that's not the normal, like,

way. No, it's not at all. Like it's so different. Yeah. Because it is actually, they're not cheerleaders, they're dancers. So it's so cool. Yeah.

So Texi, our girl Texi, she was mama. So she became the heart and soul of this new form of field entertainment. She was totally committed to professional creativity, disciplined dance execution, and just perfection in these sideline routines. And she was the one that was handling rehearsals, personal appearances, because then everyone's like, interesting.

Interesting. We want them here. Like, truly, we want to see more of them. Auditions, meetings. So she was kind of the heart and soul until she was like, I grow tired. She'd been doing it for about a decade. And so she retired in the 80s and she hired this woman, Shannon Baker Wefman, who was a DCC back in the day. Classic. You just move on up, of course. So the girls were like...

They hadn't hit their huge, like, oh my God, it's the DCC. But people were interested. People were like, they're hot. I guess it's cute. They're up there shaking that thing. What more could you want? They're up there shaking that thing. But they weren't these international stars quite yet. Until Claire. Until Claire.

During January 1978 Super Bowl, a cameraman was filming the Super Bowl, as one does, and he wandered his lens over to the sidelines. And one of the cheerleaders in her costume turned to him, looked into the camera, and winked.

And this is when the DCC became worldwide celebs. That DCC had the razz. And the cameraman sensed it. He was like, the energy was pulling him to it. He was drawn to this woman. Also so funny to see the cameraman be like, anyways. He's like, they have enough of this. Sports coverage. Who really needs to see the game? Yeah, just like, I could just do it for one second. And it was just like...

You know, and like we have those moments in pop culture where it's this one photo, it's this one moment and it is like magnetic. It's great. It's like lightning striking. Exactly. I'll post a picture of it on the carousel at Right Answers Mostly. I'll try to find a video of it. And yeah. And so people then were literally just like, oh my God.

I just imagine like the people watching Super Bowl and like all these men just dropping their cans of beers. I mean, truly like on the floor. This moment really catapulted them into like television fame outside of just being recorded for the games, too. So the squad appeared on two network television specials in the spring of 1978. The NBC rock and roll sports classic.

They were on the Osmond Brothers special on ABC. They were in a shampoo commercial that went really big. Genius. Really big. I know, right? I miss shampoo commercials. Herbal Essence. Wow. When ladies are climaxing while shampooing. I forgot about that. Literally. Was that what they all were? Yes. They were like...

I think having a good time shampooing their hair. Never forget. Herbal Essence was like very sexual. And then Hollywood came to them. They came knocking on their door, Claire, and they were like, we want to make a two-hour movie called The Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders. And that was a movie that aired on January 14th, 1978, and it became the highest rated made-for-television movie in history. In history? Mm-hmm. What was the movie about? I think it was just like a...

fictional movie about like their lives? Question. Yeah. Did they get paid for that movie? Do you know? Oh, Claire. I doubt it because of what we're about to discover. I doubt that they got, I doubt it.

That's what I figured. That's why I asked. Yeah, I don't think so. Especially in the, this was in 1979. We don't pay women. Yeah, exactly. They're like, women can't even have credit cards yet. Which I think wasn't until like 1976, right? Or something. Yeah, but like you had to have a man sign off like to. Isn't that crazy that like our mothers experienced that? Yes. What's a girl to do? What's a girl to do? I mean, Jesus Christ.

So the celebrity has just carried on for years. You know, they were on Family Feud, SNL, Jay Leno, David Letterman, appearances after appearances. And now they're like superstars. And it is so interesting because it's like all pro teams have their cheer team now and like dancers. But Dallas is different. It's just different. I mean, everything is bigger in Texas. Ain't that the truth. Ain't that the truth, honey. Ain't that the truth.

And you know what's so fun about what they get to do is for, like, you know, the Super Bowl and for big events, they get to perform with stars on the field, such as Jessica Simpson. Oh, my God. Jessica, when she was dating Tony Romo, do you know? I actually don't know what year it was. Which Dallas Cowboy fans, I have a bone to pick with you about that when we talked about our Jessica episode. Well, true.

Say it. Not happy. Not happy. When you guys blame Jessica for your boy playing bad. I don't think so. You're just jealous that you weren't dating Jessica Simpson. No kidding. We all were. I mean, literally. Shania Twain. Ugh. Clint Black. Randy Travis. Reba McEntire. Carrie Underwood. Keith Urban. Selena Gomez. And many, many more. So they get to like. And Dolly.

And Dolly, which is one of the best episodes of the documentary because they're all just like freaking out. I mean, it's the highest honor. I mean, just imagine like getting to – and you know, they're like – of course like the cameras are not on them the whole time and like – but that doesn't matter. Like they like bring so much – No, you are sharing a stage with like the – with Shania and you are like adding to the performance. I know. And it's just really, really special. Yeah.

Okay. So some may ask, well, what's the audition? What has the audition process been like? What would it be like if I wanted to do it now? Because it's pretty much stayed the same since the beginning. There's been some minor tweaks, but here is the gist of it. So each spring are the auditions. Right. And there is about an average now of 600 young women from across America auditioning.

That dream of becoming a DCC. I'm so shocked it's only 600. Well, God, after the Netflix special. Oh, that's so true. It must be like this year. Well, actually. Or next year will be thousands. Next year is going to be crazy. I know. 600 kind of seems small. I wonder if it's like, why do you think it's that small? Well, probably because a lot of people are like, I would like to make a living.

That's true. I think a lot of people know about the pay, which we're going to talk about in a second. And I mean, it's just really intense. It's really intense. And maybe some people just don't want to go through that as a professional dancer. Also like the age that, which I don't know what the age requirement is, but like, yeah, a lot of people start...

A lot of people do dance as a hobby, even in college, you know, and then you go on to do different jobs. Yeah, that is true. Okay, so the rules of the auditions. All rehearsals of the 50 plus song and dance numbers in each season's repertoire are mandatory. They have to learn 50 dances? Yes, I think they only really end up.

Using like a small percentage of that. But you got to know. You got to know in case you decide that's the game day. Chosen song. If a cheerleader misses a rehearsal prior to a home game, she will not be allowed to perform at that game. Wait, is this for auditions? No, this is just for. This is like training camp, like when you've made the team. This is training camp. Okay, okay. And when you were like fully on and you were on board, what could happen to you if you fuck up? Okay.

So if a cheerleader misses a rehearsal prior to a home game, she will not be allowed to perform at the game. Anyone with two unexcused absences prior to a home game is subject from being released from the squad. It's like these kind of rules just give me so much anxiety. I mean, it's just so scary. And it seems impossible to follow these based on what we will know about the schedule and all of that.

Another rule, which is upsetting, is that you need to have measurements that are deemed perfection for the uniform. And this is touched upon in the doc. There is literally a written rule that you have to sign on your contract that says you will maintain the same weight as when you auditioned.

To throughout the whole season. Or you could be let go. I'm just like, we're women. Like, our hormones are all over the fucking place. Like, how? Ain't that, I mean, ain't that the truth? No. And that brings us to talking about the iconic uniform. Oh, my God. Has there ever been anything hotter? I mean, it is really hot. And also, like, that color blue just looks really good on most people. It looks great.

so good. And like, oh, the blue and white together in the stars. Oh, yeah. Would you like to explain what the outfit looks like for those who do not know? Oh, my God. Sure. I would love to. So the shortest white shorts you've ever seen in your life. They're basically like little undies. They're so cute, though. God. A big belt. Like, yeah. And then they've added bling to it, which I actually prefer not the bling. I don't need the bling. Let's keep it simple. But they're in Texas, you know. Of course. That's what they want. Yeah. And it's like this long sleeve, like puffy shirt that...

that you just tie around under the boobs. So he gives like a little lift, a little cleavage. Oh my God, the cleavage. You just want to stick your face in it. And then there's like a vest with some more stars on it. And then the white tall cowboy boots. Yes. Which look so uncomfortable to dance in. I can't imagine. The blisters. We got to talk about them, which we will. The, the jump split. We absolutely will.

Okay, so the uniform itself is trademarked, and they're really intense about the uniform. So it cannot be duplicated in any way without the written permission of the DCC.

The internationally recognized blouse, vest, and shorts were originally designed by Paula Van Wagoner of the Lester Melnick store in Dallas. Great. Since first introduced with the formation of the squad in 72, there have only been six modifications to the uniform. Really? They make little modifications for the trends. They are aware of what the people want. So in May of 18-

In May of 1989, the original go-go boot had gone out of style and a more Western-oriented design was selected. So it was go-go boots at first? It was go-go boots. Wow. That's what Casey Musgraves did for her Halloween costume. Well, yeah. And then they were like, okay, that's out. Yeah. And what's in? White cowboy boots. Wow. And in 1991, the large buckled belt was left behind in favor of shorts with a more flattering cut.

So they still have – I think there used to be like an actual belt with it. Yeah. Because now it's like attached to the shorts, right? Or it's kind of like a – I don't know. Is it – But there definitely was like a belt. Yeah. And they talked about it on there too. Yeah. I love the blue shirt. The blue shirt is just so – I mean that cut – the cut is just so flattering. And like I love that it has big sleeves. I love like –

It's like a nice contrast of covering up a certain part. And then it's just so hot. It is hot. And then 1992, that's when the cowboy boot style came. And then 1993, crystals were added to outline the 15 stars on the vest and shorts. 1994 is when the blouse got lapels.

What's a lapel? I think that's the thing on your wrist, I think. Yes. And finally, in 1989, crystals were added to the fringe line of the vest. Sorry.

So I think that's what Kelly said that she added. I know she said she added some bling. Oh, that's a great, great segue. That's a gorgeous segue. Yes. In each modification, after careful consideration by director Kelly McGonigal-Finglass. These names are so weird. Yeah, we're going to just call her Kelly. I think that's her name. Yeah, Kelly Finglass. Kelly Finglass.

was implemented to enhance the image that the uniform has represented from the very beginning. So she is intense about the changes and just intense in general. But she has, I mean, she has to be. This is her, this is her brand. This is her life. Yes.

So who are the leaders now of the DCC? So today's cheerleaders are guided by two former DCCs, Kelly Finglass and Judy Trammell. Trammell? Judy Trammell. Do you think that they've ever kissed? I think they've had late nights. I mean... It gets so lonely, you know? I mean, I think those women are as straight as the day is long, but... I was going to say, I don't think I've ever seen straighter women. Me neither. Um...

I know we've been talking about uniforms and rehearsals and stars and white cowboy boots. But Claire, there's some darkness. Oh, of course. So...

Let's talk about pay and let's talk about the pay inequality. So the Cowboys are in financial terms, like the biggest franchise in the NFL. They are, they're America's team. This is from the time article, which I thought like puts this in perspective. Give it to us. Grandpa. Grandpa says the dancers are in effect influence influencers with a single client, ones that have achieved their status through rigorous physical work and are not compensated nearly as well as your average Instagram celebrity.

Which is just like, yeah, they live and breathe this team. They are the faces of this team. They represent. They're the reason why some people go to the games. Exactly. And they really don't have very many rights within this position and as a part of the team. Because it is. It's a communal effort. Of course. So in the first episode of America's Sweethearts, there is a woman named Kelsey.

Who we love, Kelsey. She is... Oh, our fearless leader. Our quiet leader. Our quiet, gorgeous leader. And she details her daily schedule. For example, this is one woman's journey, but a lot of them had the same experience. So she works as a pediatric nurse from 7.30 in the morning to 4.30 p.m. before she goes to cheerleading practice, which sometimes runs as late as midnight. Ugh.

Other cheerleaders in the series also share that they have jobs working as florists, dance instructors, Pilates instructors, just part-time jobs. Orthodontists. Orthodontists. Really, you know, you have to have another job to be able to do this. And when Kelsey is talking about it, she was like, I consider cheerleading a part-time job too, so it's fine that I have another job. Like, I'm happy doing both. But...

Like physically and emotionally, this job is very like significant, this cheerleading position, and it takes a toll on your body and your mental health. I'm also like, Kelsey, you don't have one part-time job. You have two full-time jobs. Exactly. But that's what you see, Claire, is all of them kind of being like, it's fine because they don't see it as an imposition because they are so grateful that they are on the team.

And like there is like a blindness to it. No, for sure. And I hope that like the documentary comes out like that they can all see like we value you more than this. Exactly. We talked about this on Premium too.

The fact that their rehearsals are during dinner time. Dinner time is my time. Dinner time is quiet time. Dinner time is sacred time. And we're not going to be like, I don't want to be out and about. We're freaking out going to a movie at 7.20 p.m. You think I'm going to be moving? No, we're already panicking about that. Yes. No. Absolutely not. So they practice 20 hours a week in addition to games and appearances in the 18-week period. So rehearsal, rehearsals.

Going to like sign calendars or going to a children's hospital. I mean, like they go to these events like Princess Diana. You know what I mean? Are they paid for going to those events? They are paid. Okay. Yes. Are they paid for rehearsals? They are paid a basically hourly wage for whatever they're doing, but it's not a lot. It's like minimum wage, weekly wage?

We're almost there. Okay, okay. Sorry. No, no, no. You're good. We're almost there. We're just doing the build-up. No, we are. We have to do the build-up. So the doc showed that their holiday schedule, which was like really shocking for me to even see, that they had not gotten one day off in 21 days. And all of them had like strep throat. Yes. The physical therapists were coming in to like...

Crack their backs and massage them. I mean, moving your body like that for 21 days while working other jobs? And having strep throat. I can't imagine. Doing strep throat, I can even get out of bed. You can't. You feel so awful. Let alone move your body. That's terrible.

And it's like not only moving your body, you have to be on. Like you have to perform at a level where you're smiling and like everything. You're doing your hair and makeup for two hours before. The whole thing is just very upsetting. So former Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader Kat Puryear shares in the series that her salary as part of the team was equivalent to – she goes –

A substitute teacher or like a Chick-fil-A worker that works full time? That works full time. Exactly. And I was like, wow, what comparisons? But like she's basically trying to be like – That's a girl from the south if I've ever heard one. I mean, yum, Chick-fil-A. I was literally just thinking about Chick-fil-A in my head like 10 minutes ago. I feel like it might be time soon. I think it's a sign. It always is? Yeah. Okay. So how much are they paid? So this is where there's been no –

I do not release the tapes. I mean, literally. A representative from the Dallas Cowboys did not respond to Time's request about this, but what Time said was according to a 2022 report by NBC Boston, the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders make about $500 per game...

and about $15 an hour to $20 per hour for practices, which comes out maximum $75,000 per year. And I think when I first saw this, I was like, oh, $75,000. You guys, these women are working without breaks. They are working their asses off. And if you want to

Compare it to the average salary for an NFL player. That's what I was about to say. Which is $2 million. And the lowest paid Dallas Cowboy player makes $850,000 a year. The discrepancy.

Coopency is where the problem lies. And also, guess what? Because I know there's going to be, sorry to say, but I know there's going to be some man out there who's going to be like, no, but like it's the NFL and they're like playing more, like working harder. Fuck that. That lowest paid Dallas Cowboy player is not, he's sitting on the bench during the game. Well, and that's what a lot of them have said of like, look, we're not trying to like,

compare and they all are very gracious to the athletes but they're like we are up the entire time for three to four hour games non-stop also the NFL has so much money

And there it is, Claire. So, yes, for everyone that might be like 75 is more because when Doc came out, there was a number going around TikTok and stuff that said they were all paid $40,000 a year. That's kind of like where I was seeing that. And I think they used to be paid that because we're going to get into some like lawsuits and stuff. But like Claire just said, this is a company that is worth $9 billion. Yeah.

And the team owner is worth $41.1 billion. Jerry Jones is knocking on Beth's door. Trash, trash, trash. Not for us. Yeah. He's from Arkansas. Oh, is he? He played at U of A. Okay, well, yeah. No, I mean... Not an Arkansas angel, but Arkansas... Well, I just like...

I don't think that Jerry Jones and I would agree on much. I would just say that. Yeah, I don't think – if I had to guess. I don't think so either. It's just gross when like there is a company that has this much money and they respect their male athletes. Exactly. And they're giving them – essentially throwing millions of dollars at them a year. Not like they aren't doing anything, but it is gross just to see. Also, have you seen that stadium? Yeah.

It's just like they, it's a cash machine. It's a cash machine. And again, like we're not, like these women are so crucial to the team. They're so a part of the team's identity. Well, they are the face.

of the Dallas Cowboys. And they represent them. And in their contract, it's like when you are out grocery shopping, you need to smile at people and you need to be... Oh my God. It's a lot of like prettiest girls, the happiest girls sort of thing. Of course. And they are just, they have to be on all the time. And that's why it's like, okay, if you're the face of a company like influencers are and they're getting paid, you know, $200,000 per post. Yep. Why?

Why aren't they in the same realm of like celebrity? Well, it was just so gross to me. And I know we're going to talk about the doc, but essentially Jerry Jones daughter was like, we could pay them more, but we just don't because we don't have to. Exactly. That's really all it is.

So in the series, Charlotte Jones, who's the Dallas Cowboys executive vice president and chief brand officer and the daughter of Jerry Jones, she addresses the issue of the cheerleaders' pay, suggesting that cheerleaders are not motivated by money. You know, as people, cheerleaders don't care about money. Okay, what? But instead, opportunity and a passion for dance.

While Charlotte Jones' salary is unknown, the Dallas Morning News reported that Jones' ex-husband, Shai Anderson, testified that the former couple had a total income of about $1.3 billion during their 30 years plus marriage. So yeah, I love a billionaire being like, thanks.

She's passionate about the craft. My girl, shut up. Shut the hell up. Also, was Charlotte ever even a cheerleader? Like, I'm kind of like here. To me, that also feels like Jerry Jones, who his daughter was like, you're a woman. Go do like the woman thing. I know, because I don't think it showed that she was a cheer. They never said anything about it. Yeah, she looks like something's up. Yeah. Haunting a little bit. Oh, God. Hearing those salaries, I'm like, we have got to tax the rich, y'all. Truly, you guys. Come on.

Vote. Vote. Yeah, please. We'll talk about it more soon. You know how we feel. Please vote in November. Okay. So we talked about the $75,000. However, past issues involving pay, 22-year-old Erica Wilkins said,

She was a DCC in 2014 and 2015, and she said that she walked away at this time after her first season with only $4,700 after taxes. What? Which today, because I was like, well, that must be so much more, right? 10 years ago, it was like $6,200. $6,200? After a whole her rookie season.

That is disgusting. And again, like, you're working every single day. And now I'm like, I wonder if they pay rookies even less, do you think? Probably. Because you probably do. It's just, like, not okay that they're not releasing these salaries. Like, that's so shady. It's not okay that they haven't confirmed, like –

You need to then, yeah, it's weird that they won't like comment on any of these requests. What's her name? Charlotte Jones. Charlotte Jones. I bet she was like, this Netflix doc is going to be the best thing that ever happened to us, which in some way it is like incredible for them. But like, girl, we're coming for you. I know because it shows such darkness, but it also makes it look so cool.

I mean, yeah. We are rooting for the women of the organization. You guys have got to get it together. You have to. You just have to. So Erica went on to say that she appeared solo on the cover of the group's swimsuit calendar, which yes, they have a swimsuit calendar every year, which they do not get compensated for. They get paid for their time during the photo shoot, but no, they're not getting- They don't get commission from- Oh, no, no, no, no.

That's disgusting. That's their body. She was deemed like the star because she was on the reality show, the initial one, and performed on stage with Blake Shelton and Usher. I would die. And she said, yes, it is prestigious, she told the Post, of cheering for the Cowboys. But at the end of the day, prestige doesn't pay my rent. I can't walk down to my leasing office and hand them my uniform for a month. Right. That's the truth.

So she is suing them. Oh, I love this. Let's get Elle Woods into the mix. Elle Woods is here. And so Erica was like, you know what? I am so over it. She claims that cheerleaders were paid less than the team's mascot, a costume cowboy named Rowdy, who she found out. She was like, talk to me. She's like, how much are you paid? And he was like, I'm like minimum $65K a year. And this is when she had walked away with $6,000. And plus commission.

He gets commission? He gets commission off something. I'm like, what does he get commission off of? They're probably like anything he wants. Probably like mascot stuff or something. If you're buying like a- Foam hands or something? How do you make foam fingers? Foam fingers. Which, by the way, that reminds, like what you just said, we should make a RAM calendar. Oh.

How, like, us in some suit. I'm like, please, God, no. I was more thinking of, like, subjects we've covered. That is so cute. Okay, coming 2025. Or, yeah, and, like, it could be, like, some headshots of us. Yeah. We're always workshopping ideas over here at Ram. I'm dying thinking about it. I really am, too. I'm just going to Photoshop my face on, like, some of these Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders. Yeah, let's just do that. Let's call it a day. We'll get Allison to do that.

Please put the carousel post. Please. Oh, my God. That's amazing. Make me so sad after. OK, so Erica is like, this is fucked up. And she was saying at this time that she was being paid eight dollars per hour for practices, which was just above minimum wage in 2014. Flat rates for games and appearances such as calendar signings.

And she was like, look, we would go overtime sometimes. Like, you know, there were also things that were out of our control that we hadn't signed up for. We'd have to be at an appearance. Right. We were never really giving any notice. And some of these things she said that they weren't even paid for. But they'd have to show up because they'd have to be like a team player. That's the thing is like the organization is asking them to treat it like a job without paying them like a job. Exactly. This is a job. They're paying it like a hobby. Yes. And nothing is a hobby past like...

If this is your career, you need to be compensated. It's just wild. And she was very honest in this whole lawsuit about what the audition process was really like. She said the two-month training camp was brutal. Yeah.

And she was like, a lot of women quit their day jobs just to come to training camp because it's so strenuous and draining. Of course. She was working as a part-time technician at a cryotherapy spa. She was like, I had absolutely no social life. There was no time for me, my mental health. Yeah.

That's what when I watch the women on the Netflix doc, I'm like, you guys, there's literally no time to go hang out with your friends. No. And like we kind of mentioned before, she even said like so much of the time spent is just being camera ready and being fully styled with hair and makeup, which would sometimes take two hours. Of course. Before even going on, you know, starting rehearsals at 7 and then they probably go out like 8.39. Because you have to be hair and makeup ready for all rehearsals. All rehearsals. For what? For what?

Because they have to look at you in the camera and be like, well, this is how you look during the game. And you're looking a little... No. Whatever they're saying. No. You're just going to sweat. Oh, my God. It's so bad for your skin. Oh, it's just so bad. And she was saying...

for her first year she was only paid $100 per appearance $200 her second year and $300 her third but pay increases okay so she did do it for three years but pay increases are capped at $500 so you can't make more than that even though like Kelsey who was a year five veteran

But she's just making $500. So then rookies, you are making less money. Yes, you're making less. Okay. Yeah. Also with the training camp, they are rehearsing in like July and August in Texas outside of

Guys, that's actually what hell is. That, like, for me, nothing I'd want to do, I would be in the heat like that for. It's just, like, dangerous. It is dangerous. Well, yeah. And, you know, on top of that, like, the pressure of remaining a certain weight. So it's in the heat. I think a lot of these women are not nourishing themselves properly. And it's just really upsetting. And she also mentioned that there's no stipend for shit. So.

So, like, you know that all of them get multiple spray tans a week. Which, like, gorgeous if someone's paying for it. They're not. That's crazy. Also, yeah, like, two spray tans a week max, though, guys. Like, we have to call it a day at some point. No, I think even, like, yeah, just take your time. Like, once a week is honestly probably the best. Yeah. Yeah.

take your time. It's just hard. It's hard to keep up with that lifestyle. Sometimes more is more, you know? Yeah, and that's the truth. And that's the truth. Your spray tan looks good today. Oh, thank you. Yeah, they did a really great layer. It's really nice. Yeah, I like the color that she gave me. It's like golden. Thank you so

Thank you so much. Sugar and bronze. Shout out. Call us. We'll call you. Yeah. We do every week. We do every week. To book more boyfriends. That's right. So she was saying that management gives you a rookie makeover. Yes. So they'll pay for that. But once that's done, once they've decided to bleach your hair and give you extensions and everything, you are required to maintain that look. Do you guys know how expensive, and I know some of y'all know how expensive it is to be a blonde when you're not? That shit's every six weeks.

Every four weeks. And if you guys don't know, these days, I don't know what it is for Dallas. Dallas, you know, is a more expensive city in the South, though. In LA, for a cheap color, it's $500. I'm not joking. That's what we literally got quoted the other day. Truly. Highlights. And highlights are very time-consuming. But, yeah, at least three hours. Three hours. Yeah, you're looking at minimum $500.

Yeah. Oh, my God. And they don't get paid for that, but they have to keep it up. They have to keep it up. Yeah. If they give you extensions, you need to pay for – you just have to –

It's all on you after that. And makeup is so expensive. Oh, I mean, truly. So she said that they did. Erica was like, all right. They did have a sponsored hair salon. So if you went there, you could get free if they had time, which was hard because it wasn't just a guaranteed. You could get a free service there, but you'd have to tip. And they were like, you were doing this twice a month. So like that, she said, was $150 a month just in tips.

The girls have to wash their own uniform while the NFL players have everyone do laundry for them. That is – And you have to dry clean it because you can't just throw that shit in the wash. No. It's like on just the movie Just Friends. Like, I shouldn't have to worry about this. I'm the talent. Exactly. That is not their job. Exactly. And you also don't get to keep this uniform once you are done. That's sad. It's very intense. They're like, give it back. No touchy. Even though they have like really like modified it to fit their bodies perfectly. So I'm like, what?

Just let them keep it. I know. I only got to keep one cheer uniform in my time, too. Sad. I know. I also have no access to a gym or fitness studio, which now they're finally able to use the NFL team's facilities because there's fucking gyms everywhere that are very accessible. But they were not allowed to until like, let's see the year. Yeah.

I think this was only like a couple years ago that they were like, all right, you can go in. It's just like it's all for the same organization, the NFL. And like it's just so different. Well, it's just like what does that – why can't they go use the fucking treadmill for an hour? Like why? Wouldn't that like make everyone in the gym happier? You know, just like put it – and just try to like think the way that they think. Exactly. Like it could be good to watch hot women run. Yeah.

Just like, I like that. It could be good for us. I like that. And here is the real kicker, Claire, that I was shooketh to my core. They cannot...

Sign with any other companies or agencies to get paid sponsorship deals on social media. Okay. This is what I was just about to ask. And this is disgusting. So this is actually showing that they want to like trap them. Yes. Because for what? Why can't if Herbal Essence calls one of them. Covergirl. Exactly. What is the point? I mean, Athletic Greens, like at the most basic that all of these influencers are able to make a buck off of a big buck. Well,

Think about, like, all of the girls that we just saw in the documentary who will be...

who will be going on to their second or third year, they still cannot do a post after all the fame that Netflix has given them. No. Some of them, I think Victoria has 300,000 followers. Kelsey has like 500,000. Kelsey now probably can because she's no longer with them. And I hope she does. And she should. But I was looking through all their posts and I was like, they don't do sponsored posts. No, that's not okay. Like Reese should be able to like promote whatever she wants to. She needs to pay for her wedding. No kidding. We'll talk. We'll talk.

But yeah, guys, like – and I don't know if everyone is like aware of how much money certain – of that like caliber that you can make on Instagram. I mean we know people that like –

You could easily make six figures from a post if you have half a million dollars. Half a million followers. Half a million followers. Easily. Like, it's crazy. And they should be getting that. They are influencers. They are. I want to know what they're using and what they're up to. I do too. So that was just so fucked up.

I wonder if they have restrictions on their social media, like you can't post a bikini picture, like what sororities have, you know? Well, I think there's just like a... A standard. A standard of like, you're the good girls. Yes. You're America's sweethearts. You are happy. You are...

Like, they could never – well, I don't think it's legal in Texas, but, like, be caught smoking a joint or anything like that. Oh, God, no. And, yeah, they probably, like, can't be out and about. You know, like, they have to be, like, maintain good behavior, which is gross because then also you see athletes that are, like, not maintaining good behavior. Not in the slightest. And so it's just, like, not fair. And this leads us into one of the most upsetting parts of the documentary that we do need to talk about, which is –

their stalking that they have to endure, and sexual harassment. And we are going to take a break right here. We will be back, but this is a very important part of the story, and I think we need to chat about it, but stick around.

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the couch do it wherever you want because this is all about you so here's what you're going to do you're going to start planning at zola.com that's z-o-l-a.com you can thank me later okay and we are back so unfortunately these women have been through hell and back no kidding

They have been stalked. They have been sexually harassed. They have to deal with disgusting people that work for these stadiums, cameramen, and people within the organization. I mean, one of the most disturbing parts on the documentary to me was that tour that was happening through the stadium and that –

But those men should not be allowed in their locker rooms. Absolutely not. That is their safe space. It's disgusting. There was grown, creepy men in the locker rooms. And they were like, go pick your favorite girl and take a picture by their locker. That's such an invasion of privacy. They treat them...

Like objects. They do. And it's really, it's actually really shocking. So in interviews with dozens of current and former cheerleaders, most of them from the NFL in general, because we're also going to look at it as like the umbrella of this.

They all have described systematic exploitation by teams that profit by sending them into pregame tailgating and other gatherings where they are subjected to offensive sexual comments and unwanted touches by fans. So this is like a large problem within the NFL that they're literally like, all right, girls, go out and put the men, talk to them. And then they end up being sexually assaulted and sexually harassed. What is wrong with you that like –

I, oh my God. I know. Where to even begin? So the Dallas Cowboys have this rule that they're like, okay, well, our cheerleaders, you know, don't, we don't want men touching them at appearances and we don't want them getting, you know, too close to them or making them uncomfortable. So they offer their fans when they want to take a picture with one of the DCCs, a football to hold in their hands.

It's not funny, but it's so ridiculous that these men can't control themselves that they literally have to put an object in between them and these women. I literally wrote like, this is a smart idea, which is sad that it's smart because you know that they wouldn't be able to not touch them if they didn't have this football. That's fucking crazy.

crazy. Also, do they have like security going around with them? So at appearances, there is a security guard. Well, there needs to be one for every woman, apparently. I mean, not enough. No kidding. There's not enough. That is, no, that's vile that they had to put a football. And it almost like the way that they talked about in the documentary was almost more like we want to make sure the men aren't uncomfortable with what to do with their hands if they're not allowed to touch them. Then we want the women to feel safe. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. It was very like imbalanced and like

It was misdirected. Just like, don't touch. Don't touch. And also, if you do touch, don't touch skin. No. It's also like, why am I telling a grown man how to behave appropriately around...

A woman. And a stranger. Like, you've never met this person before. Don't make them uncomfortable. Just, like, fucking do better. My God. It's crazy. So a longtime cheerleader for the DCC recalled a home game where her squad walked near a group of Philadelphia Eagle fans. Oh, God. This is very upsetting, and I'm going to offer a trigger warning for the next, like, couple minutes because this just, like, shows how really disappointing and aggressive some men are to them.

So she said we were walking by – a trigger warning for sexual assault. We were walking by waving and smiling and one guy caught my eye, said the cheerleader, who requested to be anonymous because she, like many others, was forced to sign a nondisclosure agreement. She said he looked at me and said, I hope you get raped. Oh.

That's the kind of stuff we'd have yelled at us, even from our fans. Once they get drunk, they yell things and you're like, really? And then you go, well, I guess it's a part of my job. It comes with it. You're just supposed to take it. The Cowboys and the Titans did not respond to requests for this comment. Oh my God. That is, I mean, what do you even say to that? I mean, there's literally nothing to say. And a lot of the cheerleaders are like, we are told that...

We should never upset the fans, and that's the first priority. So if people are yelling disgusting things at you, if they're treating you badly, you need to keep a smile on your face, and you need to prioritize them and, like, the fun that they're having at the game. And this is, like, also so a part of football culture. It's, like, get wasted and be a fucking animal. Yeah, cool. And it needs to stop.

Yes, that should not come with the territory. You're allowed to like love sports and go to games and drink and hang out with your friends and family and not cross any lines with anyone. Just be like a decent human being. My God. It's just like unreal. But there's like the space like they allow that. They encourage it almost. It's just like boys will be boys. It's the good old boys club. Yeah.

So this cheerleader says, we were taught if someone gets handsy with you, how to navigate that. We were told what to say. Like that's,

That's not very nice to be sweet, not rude. Say, well, can I just ask you to step over here? Use body language to help deter the situation. Never be mean. Always be courteous because it's for the fans. Because if it's not for the fans, we wouldn't be there. That's how we were supposed to think about this. No. This is like just a societal problem in general. Like if they're – we're always teaching women what to do to avoid this instead of teaching men to stop it. Yeah.

Literally. We shouldn't be teaching the women. Yeah. It's like if there is – there's been a case before where women were getting kidnapped and so then women had curfews where it's like, no, then men should have curfews. It's just like it's really hard in this world to avoid sexual harassment. Yeah.

A lot of women, and in this article it was saying a lot of cheerleaders, you know, in this case do not report these harassment cases because...

It's scary to report it. Most people will say, we don't believe you or you're over-exaggerating. Or you have to pay lawyer fees and go through emotional and financial torture. And then most of these cases say, well, there's not enough evidence. Exactly, Tess. And it is just so disgusting and –

I just like, it just makes me so upset. Like I've been through a sexual harassment before at a job and that was exactly what was said to me was, well, you know, you could maybe get like a couple thousand dollars from this and you don't have enough evidence. And it had been happening for two and a half years. But I was so scared that people were going to like, you know, think I was being dramatic or that maybe it was my fault. Like all of these things. And I'm just like...

For any of the ramblings listening that have been through that or – there's just a communal experience, unfortunately, that women have and you're doing nothing wrong. And I get that feeling of being like, well, what is the right thing to do? And like what should I put myself through? Well, because going through the experience, experience is hard enough. And then to have to relive it over and over again just to get some like goddamn justice for yourself only to be told. It's like, meh. No.

I know. And so you just kind of feel like there's just no like these women are just trying to show up to do the thing that they love. Exactly. Like literally. And work. Exactly. And they should feel safe in doing that. Most women that experience this in like a professional setting, you are just trying to fucking do your job, get paid and support yourself. Exactly. And then this is what you have to deal with.

Oh, God, it makes me so upset. It makes me so mad. So in arguably the biggest scandal to rock the DCC in 2015, four unnamed cheerleaders were paid $2.4 million after they accused a senior male executive of filming them as they undressed in their locker room. Oh, my God. One of the former members alleged that they saw Richard Darrell Ample.

the then Cowboys senior vice president for public relations and communications, using his phone to record from behind a partial wall where the women changed. What ended up happening, this did go through a whole legal thing, and they said that the investigation found there was no evidence of wrongdoing, which is also what we see in the documentary with 19-year-old Sophia Loeffner, who was groped by a cameraman during a game, and she said she wanted to report it immediately.

They went through an investigation and said that there was nothing substantial to be found.

I'm just like, this is why we need more women in power. Because it's just like men protecting each other. It really just is. No, I mean, truly. And you know what? Like, that's not protecting your organization. That's like rotting your organization to your core. To protect your organization is to get people like this the hell out of there. Literally. And that leads us just to kind of talking about the impact that the documentary had. Because that episode, to me, was like...

probably the most powerful I've just seen like a 19 year old who this is probably her first job ever immediately not even questioned that she wanted to report it and like a lot of the other cheerleaders were like I wouldn't have been able to do that that is so brave and I just thought that like

That just really... That episode just really got me in the series. I was like, it's just so important to show. A hundred percent. And I am grateful it seems like the team really did come together and... And Kelly. And Kelly to protect her. Because it's a family. And that man, I guess, like, was no longer able to enter the stadium. But, like, that's the worst that happened to him. That is, like, bare minimum. Yeah. And when you, like, show that situation to a 19-year-old woman being, like...

Nothing can happen. We can't really compensate you. We're not going to press charges. But he can't come in here anymore. You just think, oh, so then if someone else does this to me again or something worse. Or that same man, he can't come into the stadium. But when I leave here. Exactly. Which Kelsey had a tracker on her car. Yeah. A fan literally put or who knows someone that maybe a cameraman, someone that even worked for the Dallas Cowboys. Yeah. Stock stocked her for months.

Oh, it's just like they would never let this happen to the football players. Yeah, they would do everything that they could to make sure that they felt safe. And so, yeah, I think that part was really impactful. And I was going to ask you, like, what other things in the documentary did you find the most impactful and what stood out to you? Victoria. Yeah.

Let's talk about it. I could just watch her for days and that big smile that is about to crack at any moment. It is the darkest smile I've ever seen, I think. There are tears flowing through. But I hope she's finding peace now. I think, is she officially a Rockette in New York? I think she is. Hell yeah. She moved to New York. I think she lives in like a studio. And she's making her way downtown. Walking fast. Her face is past and she's homebound. We have got to go to New York during Christmas and see her shine. We really should try to get her on the pod. Okay.

Victoria, hear our cry. Everyone send this episode to Victoria. Hear our prayers. Truly. Where do we even begin? Yeah. So who was Victoria? For those who don't know, who might want to watch but need a little backstory. Victoria's mom was also a Dallas Cowboy cheerleader, which we see this so much. What's the pressure of that as well? Yeah.

So much. So Victoria's mom was a Dallas Cowboy cheerleader. She tried out. She didn't make it her first year. She made it her second year, I think. Correct. And she was in it for three years. I think so. She lives with her mom at home. It's just the two of them.

And it just doesn't seem like she connects with any of the other cheerleaders. And it seems like she's very much a lone wolf. But she wants it so bad. And she is a good dancer. She is. She wants it so bad. I also want to be like, but do you really want this? You can tell she is doing it to perform, but...

To impress someone else. It's like almost like she was told that she should want it. Well, yeah. And I think like having your mom be this like gorgeous little hot little thing. And then, you know, Victoria is very beautiful too. But I just think like, yeah, that all of the pressure that comes with it must just be like impossible. Yeah. And I think that was like part of her problem is because she was such a perfectionist with herself that she could not just let go. Let go. Let God, honey. Let go. Let God. Jesus Christ. Let her do her best. I know.

So Victoria definitely stood out. I mean, again, like where to even begin? I guess I would want to ask you, did you relate to any of this as a cheerleader yourself? I loved it. Like the summer practices and stuff too and like the auditioning and like, oh my God, wait, can we talk about the judges? Yes.

Okay. Have you guys seen Drop Dead Gorgeous? Because it is literally that. It was a spoof like that. It was crazy. They had the weatherman as a judge. Like, what are you doing here? It was crazy. And then like a chef or something. They had a weatherman. Yeah, a chef or something like that where it was like, what? They had like a hairstylist there. Just like random people from around town. They literally were at Walmart and be like, are you free this afternoon? Yeah, you want to come decide these women's futures with us?

And you have no background on dance? They should have like a rockette, a professional dancer. A past DCC. Us. Us. Call us. We'd be like, we want everyone on the team. Yeah, we'd be like, we just love them all. Yeah, we love them all. Let's all root for the girlies. Always. What else stood out? I mean, we've got to talk about Reese and her husband. Yeah. I'm fascinated with Reese. She's so cute.

She's very religious. I mean, I know this girl. I'm sure. That's the thing. It's like being a cheerleader, being a dancer in the South. Like Kelly actually really comforted me. She scared the living hell out of me. But I was not part of this world in the least. Yeah. And I'm like, that woman is walking around everywhere in the South with her –

Acrylic nails and a Sonic Route 44 cup. She's ready to go. Oh, of course. Yeah. And some yellow box flip flops with some capri pants and her hairs in a clip. The French manicure, but the square. Obviously a square. Has to be the square.

The Miss Me jeans. Oh, it's so good. Yeah. You said that they comforted you, like her and Judy. Yeah. Because it's just like they are kind of like – I remember growing up, I was like, I wish my mom was a cheer coach so bad because then I could just like be on the cheer team. Yeah.

I do miss like cheer tryouts. It was like the most stressful week in the entire world, but it was like so fun. I bet. Yeah. I mean, it was so, it wasn't fun. I hated cheer camp and all that stuff, but it was just like the adrenaline of it all. I mean, I'm sure. Yeah. And I know like there's been like a little controversy with, not controversy, but there's like a lot of opinions about Kelly and Judy and some people online are like, they are evil. How could they talk to girls this way? How could they promote, you know?

unhealthy eating habits and stuff, and then other people are like they're part of the system. What do you make of all of that? It's so complicated. I think also like on – and I haven't watched the CMT show. I haven't either, but I want to. I do too. I think they're worse on that than they are on the Netflix show. Because what year was that? Like 2018? 2018.

maybe even like 2016. Okay. Maybe like 28. Yeah. If it was 2016, like we still were having a lot of, we've come a long way. I mean, me too did change a lot of like ways that we talk to women and about women. I mean, still we have so long to go. And I think like even movies before 2016, I was like, Oh,

Oh my God. I know. And it's also two very different reality shows. Like the CMT reality shows a little bit more low budget and I'm sure that they were like, hey, say more scandalous things. Right. Judy's hair. I just need to like, I'll answer your question in a second, but I do just need to take a moment for Judy's hair. Take a moment. And especially in the 70s.

beautiful golden locks. This is when I just wish I had curly hair. And thick hair. Oh my God. My God. My whole hair would barely be like one section of Judy's hair. I mean, yeah, it was incredible. Incredible. I just, it is frustrating because yes, they are a product of the system. However, like we've got to keep up with the times. I'm telling you though, it is like a different part of the country. I know. And it is wild. But that's not an excuse. It's,

I do think that they care for their girls though. Yeah. I do think that they are like, these are our babies, but they are scary mommy. Right. I mean, it's like, it's sometimes shocking to see women that you're like, that's a, you know, that's mama. They were cheerleaders. All these like, this is like positive. And like, no, they are coaching athletes. Yes. And I think that even for me, there were times where I was like, why would they?

would they not? Why are they being so harsh? And I was like, oh my God, if this was like a man, I would never think that. And I think it's such an interesting point. It's like holding these women to a different standards of like, they have to be intense, but they should also be like nurturing and caring at the same time. And it's like, we don't ever ask, we don't ask that about male coaches. No. And that's like totally, that's when you have to like put yourself in check and be like, okay, I am like experiencing. Yeah.

Yeah. Some internalized misogyny. Of course. I mean, it's always just like ruining the party. It really is. Internalized misogyny is like the Kool-Aid man that like burst through the door. It's like, oh yeah. And you're just like, why? We're doing so well. But anyways, what are some of your thoughts from that? Oh gosh. It really made me just be like, sisterhood happens so easily. And like women that are in the same place,

situation, program, company, like whatever it is, like you just see how like it's just such a communal thing of life and how you bond so quickly with other women, how like you

You also just always feel like you're like a little kid, you know, in those situations. Like you go back to being like a 10-year-old at a sleepover with a bunch of your girlfriends. And also as the audience in that way too. Yes. How we can put women on screen and be like, I want to be a part of this community. Also, like I feel like a little kid when I watch this of being like, I remember being a little kid and seeing the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders and be like, those are the most beautiful women I've ever seen in my entire life. Yes. And I want to be them. I mean, I...

after my engagement party on Saturday, my friend Molly, who came from San Francisco, she's my, one of my best friends from high school. And we used to make up a lot of dances together. Oh,

We spent an hour and a half trying to learn the Dallas Cowboys Thunder dance. The dance is so fast. And we felt like we were in high school again. We were cracking up. We were giggling. My fiance came in and gave us food. And he was like, okay, we need to take a pause. He goes, let's take a pause. And we were like, oh, we want to keep dancing. Because he was like, I need to fuel you. He's like Kelly. It's like, girls, you haven't had enough fuel today. But literally, in Tubby's, what's her face? Janet? Judy? Judy. Judy.

I'm kind of not saying much. Kunal Scully and Tavish Judy. His blonde locks. It's perfect. Oh, my God. It's perfect. So, like, yeah, I just think, you know...

Yeah, women are powerful. Sisterhood is the best feeling. The best feeling. And I wish all these women well on their journey. Like, what's Reese's husband's name? Oh, what is his name? I'll never get over him. He's like, I just love football. Basketball. I just love basketball. And they always show a picture of him crowd surfing. He does love basketball. He loves basketball and he loves, and I'm with the DCC. But yeah, any other thoughts about...

about the doc guys if you haven't watched it I watched it in one day it's so good it is just shots I mean it's shot so stunningly beautiful I mean it's beautiful they better be filming right now I think they have to be um what's her face the short girl and the girl with the red hair did you see Alice's DM they made it this year so they are in training camp y'all oh the short girl

I know. Well, thank God. That was so fucked up to put her through the whole thing and then be like, yeah, you're too short. You look like a little boy. Also, there wasn't even a height requirement. Yeah. So say that. So don't make someone completely, you know. Yeah. Ugh. I love it. Yeah. This is like so fascinating. I mean, I could just go on for days talking about this. Everyone watch The Doc. Yeah. If you have Netflix. Yes. Log in someone else's account. Of course. That's whatever it is. And yeah, let us know your thoughts on what it made you feel and-

You know, after hearing about the history too, just knowing like, yeah, it's an unfair world for them. And I hope it gets better. And I hope there's some, I hope they're paid more. I hope they have, you know, more support around people that are stalking them and sexually harassing them. And, you know, we hope for positive changes. Well, especially after this Netflix doc, I guarantee you there will be so many more women, especially going to these games to see them. Totally. So we need to pay them accordingly. Yeah.

100%. Yeah. I would only go to this football game to see these girlies. Yeah. Of course. There's no other reason I want to watch football. And we just love them so much, you guys. Again, like if you're a DCC and you're listening, I'll never be happier. DMS. Please. And we'd love to interview you about like your experience. Yes. Yes. So yeah, I think that's a good place to stop. Go Cowboys. Go Cowboys. I guess. Sure. Yeah.

Go DCC. Go DCC. That's it. Yeah. My phone's about to fall off. Oh, we should tell you guys. We're going to have two re-releases just while I go home to Arkansas, but they're very fun summer episodes. Yes. Let the girl have her time. She needs her time. I'm just going to go home and be with my fam, but then we're going to be back soon with more new episodes. Yeah. So just a little mini...

mini break. If you miss us, join Premium for, we have a whole catalog of bonus episodes. Premium never ends. We never do re-releases on Premium. No, we never do. So it's just a great little summer thing. Yeah, even when we're traveling, we come out with new episodes. So we make it happen. We do. So join Premium in the show notes. And we love you guys. We hope you enjoyed this episode and thank you for always being so cute and sweet and supportive. We love you. Bye. Bye-bye.