Before Margot Robbie, there was Barbie (Re-release)
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We're having fun. We're having fun. We have to remind ourselves that we're having fun. Yes. Guys, let this be a lesson to all of you. Like, what's happening?

Are you guys okay? Yeah, we're okay. Hey, has anyone else felt a little crazy this week? Yes. This week has had some dark energy, I feel. It sure has. And you know, we've never broken that fourth wall. I know. And I'm sorry to bring you into this because you're probably, it's your Monday. You're like, have high hopes for the week. Yep. You went in with a positive attitude and we're like. And here we are. Because it's not kind sometimes. It's not.

But we are. But we are. And that's why we're going to give you a little fun episode today. Yeah, it is a fun episode. We're drinking sparkling rosé because Claire had the beautiful idea for me to talk about Barbie today. And the history of Barbie because who doesn't want to hear about that thing, that sweet thing? Barbie's an institution.

I mean, talk about iconic. Talk about iconic. Anne has been all over so many platforms, yet I know nothing about her. She just was to me. She just was. She just is. She just is and she will always be. She literally will. I do feel like she's been on our earth since the beginning of time. Like she was in the Garden of Eden. Yeah, she was around with the dinosaurs. Yeah, she was. She was.

She sure was. And they were like, look at that thing. They're like, wow. That tiny, tiny waist. Like, how is she proportionate? She's not. She's not. And we'll get into that. But yeah, this was interesting to dive into the history of how she became to be controversies over the years. You know, nothing is perfect. And with every fun side of something, there's also a dark side. I love the dark side sometimes. Right? And we do like a dark side. We like to talk about it.

What's been your experience with Barbie through the years, through your womanhood? I always loved Barbie. I was always the kid who I had certain friends in elementary school that I knew exactly what kind of Barbies they had at their house and I would use them to go over and play with said Barbies.

Did you have your own Barbies? Oh, yeah. I had Barbies for sure. And I always cut their hair off and made them look crazy. I always popped their heads off. Like, I was not gentle with my Barbies. I think I had, like, one collector's Barbie. And I was like, it's going out of the box immediately. Like, let me fuck her up? Let me fuck her up. Oh, well, speaking of, like, naked Barbies, making them have sex. Oh, God, yeah. I know I'm not alone in that. You sure are not. I have seen...

Such a distinct childhood memory. So I had this blue bin, I remember, filled to the brim with Barbies. I had an addiction. Honestly, we should have brought my mother on as a guest star because she was like, it was just crazy how obsessed you were. Like, I'd never seen anything like it.

And I don't think I was like a spoiled brat, but I think when it came to Barbie, I remember being in the toy store and being like, can I get that one? It was the Christmas edition with like this like beautiful ball gown. Yes. And she was like, no, we have to stop now. You have like probably 50 too many. This is too much. And I remember saying, well, you know what? When I'm 18, I'll buy as many Barbies as I want. And she said, sure, sweetie.

Can you imagine at 18, you're like, I have to do what I said. And you're the 18-year-old that goes and buys tons of Barbies. That would be concerning, maybe. Haunting. Well, I did say that I told you I had a music teacher who was obsessed with Barbies and had a competition at our school to go to her Barbie room at her house.

It is tough when it gets into adulthood of like, where does this stem from? Why has it continued? But God, nothing like fascinated me more than picturing what that Barbie room was like. I mean, even now it still gives me chills down my spine. I'm like, oh my God, what luxury. She's just so beautiful. She is stunning. I don't know what just came out of my mouth. No, she is stunning. And, um...

You know, she's had quite the history of even where that stemmed from of her whole look is actually very fascinating. Oh, my God. I just, like, can't wait to get into it. Well, shall we dive in? Let's dive into Barbie. We've already said dive in for Titanic. What would Barbie be? We said hop in for Playboy. We've said, let's see, Barbie. Shall we? Plastic. It's fantastic. Yeah.

Let's just start singing the Barbie theme song or the go. I'm a Barbie girl in a Barbie world. Life in plastic. It's fantastic. Boom. And that's all we're going to do. People are like, and good night. We should have someone do like a cover of it. Yes. Katie. Katie. Oh man. Well, we should, we should. And we could, um,

Yeah, so, I mean, anything else you want to say about your experience, your perception on Barbie as a grown woman? My perception of Barbie as a grown woman, I understand why she is problematic. And I think part of the thing is, it's like –

It's so ingrained in our minds. Like in the 90s, no one was really saying like, this body actually is harmful to young women to see. It just was. And now I'm glad that they are making strides to normalize because also...

I'm a white woman. So I never felt like, why does Barbie not look like me? Right. And I was privileged enough to have that experience. And so I'm so glad that there are girls now who can feel more seen by Barbie. Totally. Yes. And obviously I had the same experience of not ever being triggered by her. Mm-hmm.

But a lot of people were and in a lot of different ways, racially, body type. Yeah. Differently abled. Differently abled. And we will get into that. And like a few of these things are a little bit heavier of like some of the studies. So like perhaps a trigger warning for somebody that might not be ready to like talk about her – Bodies and eating disorders. Exactly. So there are a few things I will mention in studies here.

That I found that, yeah, it's heavy, but it's also important to talk about because she has changed with the times. I think they took a little bit too long. Yeah. Well, they always do. They always do. And so it's like you can talk about, yes, thank God that they finally recognize some of these problematic things. And also like Jesus Christ, why did this take until 2016? Come on. My God, 2016. Yep. Yep.

Where are we going? Where the hell have we been? What happened in 2016? I don't think your Trump was elected. Wow. What a year. At least something good happened. I know. Why do I hate that year? But Barbie started becoming more diverse. Barbie got it. Also, just to go back on this, because I'm just thinking of where I am with Barbie and stuff. She really – and maybe we'll talk about this later, but it sounds like she made you into a monster. She also brought out the worst versions of myself. I remember –

running away from my mom in a Toys R Us because she wouldn't buy me a Barbie. Yeah, she really ignited something. She did something to millions and millions of girls around the world. She did. And that's why it's so fascinating because she's different than any other doll. Oh my gosh. Okay, let's hear it. Let's hear it. Let's do it. Okay, so Barbie. Barbie.

Ruth Handler and her husband, Elliot Handler, founded the toy company Mattel Inc. in 1945. We've all seen Mattel, right? Yes, we have. They're everywhere. A lot of fucking toys. One time I was getting – this is so troubling. God, tell me. One time I was getting a massage and I was like –

It was when I first started getting massages, so I was being talkative, which is so annoying, and I don't know why I would ever do that. It's faux poli-clair. It's gross. It's stupid. Shut up and enjoy it. And I was like, so what else do you do or something? And the man giving me a massage, we might cut this later. Okay, just say it, though. Now I'm very intrigued. He was like, I review toys for Mattel. And I was like, please stop touching me immediately. Oh, boy. I'm sorry. That was dark. Chris, you can cut it.

But some Mattel. Someone's got to do it. Someone's got to do it. You should be a grown man. Yeah. It's always like when someone as an adult is passionate about toys, it is strange. It's very weird. I had an experience once where I won't say who this person is, but I went into – he's probably in his 60s and I went into his house and one of his rooms was filled with no furniture, just filled with toys in a huge room. What? And like some of the most expensive like collector items. That's when you like –

Start backing out slowly. Yeah. And keep calm. Yeah. And then you run. Yeah. And I didn't know what to do at that moment. But – So Ruth made Mattel. Yeah. This won't be an episode all about – Perhaps pedophilia. So sorry. So sorry, guys. Once again, we said that the energy this week is manic. Yeah, it is. It is. Okay. So Ruth and her husband, Elliot. Mattel, Inc., 1945. Fourteen years later, Barbie was invented. Yeah.

Her real name was Barbara, um, Melisand Roberts. Melisand. I was going to say Maleficent. That's what I wanted to say. Yeah. Um, but yeah, Melisand Roberts from Willows, Wisconsin. That is a fictional city, but wouldn't she be from Wisconsin? Would she be? I don't know. For some reason, I imagine her like,

Cape Cod almost. Wisconsin seems so like homegrown. Well, I think that probably embodied this like all American girl. There it is. Like once again, back to Playboy where I was like to throw it back, girl next door. There it is. She's relatable. She's outdoorsy. She probably had a good family upbringing. Like it doesn't take a lot to like –

Wisconsin's perfect for her then. Yes. And willows, wherever that may be. Also, willows just sound chic. Yeah. No, it really does. Yeah. Like she's country, but she's chic about it. Exactly. And isn't that the dream? Isn't that the dream? Isn't that what we're all trying to achieve? We wish that we were more like that. Yeah. But here we are in LA drinking the Kool-Aid, you could say. So Ruth was inspired by watching her own daughter's play with paper dolls, specifically of adult women.

or baby dolls, but not really have this in-between of this doll that could like embody little girls imagining their future. So it was sort of like paper dolls aren't really cutting it. Like sure, you can put them in different outfits or they're like taking care of their baby and putting a bottle to it. But like, how about we have this beautiful doll that this little girl can look at and be like, I want to be like that when I grow up. Also paper dolls just seem like

So easy to ruin. Oh, my God. I used to also love paper dolls. I don't think I've ever played with a paper doll. Was it just a piece of paper? Oh, my God. It was so fun. So you had one that was like thicker, like kind of like a piece of paper. I mean, yeah, but you can't really rip them. I mean, you could. I'm not explaining this well. I'm getting excited thinking about it.

But then you could put – I had a Princess Diana one. Of course you did. And you could put all of her clothes on it. Oh, my God. It was so fun. I'm Googling what a paper doll looks like because I'm literally imagining a piece of printing paper. Paper dolls and Playmobiles are underrated. And if my brother's listening to this, he understands what I'm saying. Shout out to Adrian. Shout out to Adrian who played with paper dolls with me for a very long time because he's a good older brother. So there was this lack of space that Ruth found.

I see paper dolls now. Right? Oh, my God. So fun. I understand. I understand. Okay, we're back. No need to apologize. Interestingly enough, Barbie's appearance was modeled after this doll called Build Lily, who was inspired by a German comic strip character originally. Oh, okay.

So unlike Barbie, Lily did not have this like arched foot with itty bitty toes. She didn't even have feet. The end of her leg was cast in the shape of a stiletto heel pump and painted a glossy black. So even like that image is sexual, right? Yeah, she's in a pump. So in the comics, Lily was this like witty, irreverent, and sexually uninhibited woman.

This is a comic for kids? So at first, this was specifically marketed towards men. You could buy it in like at the liquor store. She was more sexual. And then they found that, oh, actually kids are like drawn to her. And so Ruth was like, she saw this comic and she was like, interesting. Like at first she was this gag gift for men. And now she's like,

Probably she physically looks like what every little girl wants to look like when she grows up. Wow. That's interesting. In one of the comic strips, it shows Lily covering her naked body with a newspaper and explaining to a friend, we had a fight and he took back all the presents he gave me.

Another shows Lily in a bikini. When a policeman tells her that her two-piece swimsuits are illegal, she says, oh, in your opinion, which part should I take off? Oh. So this is Barbie's origin. This is literally how they were like, and now let's make a version of this for children. Weird. Problematic from the start. Yeah. It's like, why is she so sexualized? Yeah. Yeah.

Whoa. So Mattel bought the rights to Lily. I just like – it's so strange that old Ruth was like, let's make this for kids. Yeah. And like obviously, you know, she's part of this toy company. Toys are beautiful and glamorized and everything's sort of over the top. And even baby dolls are very pretty. You know, like they have these long eyelashes and –

rosy cheeks and red lips. And so like, I think, you know, this is the world she was living in. This is also in the fifties. Yeah. But yeah, so she bought the rights to Lily and then Handler created her dream doll, which was quote, always going to be a reflection of the times. Oh, so she really wanted her to change her,

With the Times. With the Times. So when she first went on display, which was March 9th in New York City, 1959. This Barbie. This Barbie. Hey, Barbie. She was 1950s glam. She was inspired by Marilyn Monroe and Elizabeth Taylor. She was wearing a strapless black and white striped bathing suit.

Before I even seen the picture, I know, and I'm looking at the pictures now, I know exactly what you're talking about. Yep. Her hair was up in a curly ponytail. She had a side smirk and she wasn't directly giving you eye contact. So she's kind of this like aloof beauty where she's just like, I'm here. You can look at me, but I'm probably not going to look at you. Already very sexual. Very sexual. She was 11 inches tall, had blonde hair, and she was $3.

How much was that back then? Goddamn, these conversion rates. I think – God, I want to say maybe around like 20 now. I think she's always been pretty like reasonably priced. I remember it's like growing up, it was always like $20. Right? Or even a little less. Okay. So – and today, $3 is $28.14. Okay. So not under 30. Okay. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah.

One of these dolls now that were on display in 1959 could now be sold for more than $25,000. What? People love Barbie. People love these grown men. It's really intense. So Barbie was immediately a success. And they were like, all right, we have to create this entourage for her. We have to have family. We have to have friends. We have to have lovers. I don't know.

Like literally, they were like, let's give her a community. So her on and off again lover came into the picture in 1961. Did they call him lover? They literally called him lover. Well, so intense. So intense for Catherial to be like, that's her lover. When did you? I don't even think I say lover now. I'm like, what even is a lover? I've taken a lover. That's a good question.

I think a lover is a... Someone you have sex with. But just sex, right? That's what I would think. Would you ever call your boyfriend a lover? A lover?

No. Would you ever call anyone a lover? I've like referred to someone as lover when I feel uncomfortable. We're just having sex. We're not dating. Yes. No, I think that's exactly what it is. So maybe that's what they were. And we romanticized it. That's like also very progressive. Maybe both of them had commitment issues. Probably. She couldn't look you in the eye. There it is. I relate to Barbie. I am Barbie.

So this was obviously Ken. If you know, you know. Oh, Ken. Oh, Ken. So he came into the picture in 1961. He was named after Ruth's son. Oh, interesting. Well, who is Barbie named after? Or did they just like that name? I think, I'm not sure where Barbara came from. I think that's kind of like going back to that like

you know, embodying that good old American gal. Barbara was, that is a huge name of the time. And it's interesting because the name Barbie now I feel like is never used as a nickname for Barbara as much because of the doll almost. Right. Because Barbie has a dumb connotation, whereas Barbara is very traditional and probably more like respected. My favorite nickname for Barbara, I think is Babs. Babs also hilarious. I love that one. Um,

What's the movie with Kristen Wiig and Barb and – Oh, Barb and Star. Do they call each other Babs in that? Does she call her Babs? I don't know. I think they said Bob. No, that was not it. Bob. Guys, is there a Midwest accent at all? If you haven't seen that movie. Go. Jamie Dormant. Wow. Iconic. Iconic. Role of his lifetime. Truly. Show. Ken and Barbie is very funny because they literally used their relationship status to

For advertisements, for like different commercials that said that they were broken up and he needs to like get back together with her before Valentine's Day. Whoa. So I didn't know that they really like...

They personified this relationship in the press and for advertisement. They really took advantage of it. So in 2004, jumping ahead a little bit, but this is all I'll really say about Barbie and Ken. Barbie and Ken made news of their own when they decided they were better off as friends. I remember this. I don't remember this. Now that you say that, I remember everyone, like, Barbie and Ken broke up? Yes. Barbie and Ken broke up. I don't remember this, but it was fascinating because what a genius.

thing to do because you feel connected to both of them. It keeps you engaged in their story. Human beings are so crazy. We're literally talking about a piece of plastic. Exactly. But we're invested. I'm sure people were hurt by it. People cried. You know that there were probably some people that did cry. That's scary. A hundred percent. I have no doubt in my mind. So they're still broken up.

No. Oh, okay. Am I jumping ahead? After seven years apart, Barbie and Ken reunited in 2011. Yes. But so there was this whole campaign that was launched for Ken to win Barbie's affections back. And then they finally reunited on Valentine's Day. They've been together ever since. Well, they're obsessed with Valentine's Day. They really are. Once again, you know, everything's romanticized in the toy world. Totally. In the toy world.

That's how they get like, you know, Barbie has a Valentine's Day outfit. It's all just very like. I'm so glad that they worked it out though. I am too because, you know, I love a love story and people can come back together after trials and tribulations. They just had to figure it out in this modern world. They really did. So in addition to Ken, to combat her sex symbol, they made her best friend Midge Midge.

I was like, God damn, give her a better fucking name. So rude. Very upsetting. Midge? Midge. How do you spell this? M-I-D-G-E. It's exactly how I thought, and it's not nice. It's not nice. Who is described as homely. God! And she looked, you know, and this is also just this, like...

problematic stereotype of the blonde fun one and the brunette boring ugly one. Yeah, why do they say that about brunettes? I think it gave me a complex as a kid because I was born a brunette and I'm now a blonde. This is true. I mean, yeah, it's like, you know, that blondes have more fun. Yeah. I think this is all in the time too of like we're getting out of black and white movies. Mm.

And I mean, but even Hollywood, you know, very famous Hollywood stars, I guess there were a lot of brunettes as well. Yeah, but like think of the sex symbol, Meryl Monroe. Exactly. So I think that really ignited this like image of blondes being sexy and fun. And I think Barbie definitely took that on. Barbie took that on. She took that on. It's like, don't take it on Barbie. She's like, I have no choice. They're doing this to me. We're not shaming Barbie. They're just like, if I could get a few blonde highlights, so maybe I won't be homely.

She's like, if I could just take off my glasses and then you can see how beautiful I am. But you're smart and you're ugly. God damn it. I actually don't think that, but Mattel did. Mattel sure did. So, you know, from the get-go, sure. Some things that just weren't 100%, you know, helpful in terms of how women could see themselves in this doll. Yeah.

However, she did have more than 200 careers. Oh. She went to the moon with Neil Armstrong. You go, girl. She sure did. She was a doctor. She was a paleontologist. She was a rock star. She was a computer engineer. They did give her a lot of these professions that most women probably did not grow up thinking, I can do that. Of course. Yeah.

Which is revolutionary. It is. For the time. And, you know, she just became this sensation. Andy Warhol painted an official photo of her. So cool. Mm-hmm. She had an official Twiggy celebrity Barbie and Twiggy sponsored it. Wow.

People were obsessed with her. Well, also, just like I do remember thinking like, which career Barbie do I want? And that is like very revolutionary. Yeah. To see yourself in something when you're that impressionable and to be like, I'm obsessed with this doll and she's going – she's an astronaut. You never see female astronauts. No. That's awesome. That's so cool. And she really like – back to that mission of her changing with the times –

She was iconic in the way that she would have different, you know, blank Barbie, blank Barbie. Like in 1971 with American society under strain due to violent anti-war protests, economic instability, and ongoing civil rights battles, Malibu Barbie was launched. She had a new sculpted face that featured an open smile for the first time, sun-tanned, makeup-free skin, and sun-kissed hair.

Malibu Barbie was marketed as the ultimate surfer girl. There was no significant change to Barbie's appearance. However, the disappearance of her coy sideways glance was

Yeah.

It was like a welcomed ray of sunshine. Exactly. Or like, you know, some sort of relief. Yeah. Like I'm sure, you know, musicians felt the same way of like, let's try to give, you know, people a song that can make them feel like for a moment we can, you know, disengage with all the horrible things going on right now. Bobby sounds like

the cool girl Malibu Barbie is the cool girl and it's also funny because as it says like makeup free skin it's like sure she doesn't quote have makeup on but she still looks flawless well that's if you have a spray tan which it sounds like she did yeah of course she did she has always had a spray she's always had a spray tan that's why she always looks flawless I know I'm like where does she go because sugar and bronze guys are booked until like October hey sugar and bronze open up for us sorry it's neither here nor there

But, so, you know, there were really great things about Barbie from the careers to them developing a Barbie that can maybe take some of the stress off of people. Do you think Ruth saw herself and would consider herself a feminist then? That is a good question. I can't speak for Ruth or the origin of her mission to develop this doll.

I think she probably would because of, you know, in that time, I mean, definitely white feminism. Right. Totally. Totally. But in the 50s, and not to excuse that, but I think that's probably the only thing that she knew of being like, I want my daughters to play with a –

doll that can have careers, which was unheard of, still problematic because it's not all inclusive. Right. But she probably would. Well, I mean, she was a working woman and an innovator herself. Totally. I think, you know, she saw that space and, you know, I'm sure she really did. I think she was like, I'm doing a great thing for young women. Yeah. You know, however. There's always a however with these stories, aren't there? Yeah. There is definitely an anti-feminism thing.

Or not movement. There was... Barbie was like... Barbie was like, I am not a feminist. Guys, this rosé is really hitting me. Hitting me this time. Hitting me just right. I'll tell you that. There were... Feminists had problems with Barbie. Okay. I... Okay. Yeah. So, in the mid-70s, Mattel suffered some severe internal difficulties and almost went bankrupt in 1974. Wow. So...

So Mattel launched a version of Barbie's little sister. Skipper? Yes. It was a version called Growing Up Skipper that they were like, okay, she has this younger sister. Let's try to show little girls how you can change in womanhood through puberty. Oh. And let's use Skipper to do so. So it was trying to represent the physical change from girl to woman. By rotating Growing Up Skipper's arm...

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.

Like, hey, puberty is tough. We're now having this market of girls that have bought this Barbie at a specific time that are probably noticing changes in their bodies and probably not liking it too much. Let's try to mirror that with Skipper. And then it just ends up seeming really like perverted. Really weird. And weird. And like that doesn't just happen overnight where you twist your arm and then all of a sudden you have breasts.

what? That's such a weird, I mean, like, I get what the intent was, but how strange. Very strange. And I think that probably came from a good place. Yeah. But it's not right. And it's weird. That's just, like, the thing that I would just think is that it's, I know exactly, I would be twisting that arm and watching the boobs pop up every second, though. Yeah.

sexualized you know like you're then just focusing on boobs and like like we were talking about before there was something with barbie that you just always wanted to see her naked and you wanted to make them like all have sex with each other you did what everyone's like we did not do that i definitely did that please let us know right now if you're listening to this text me or claire dms yes at right answers mostly right answers mostly tell us if you made your barbies

Have sex. Have sex. He definitely did. Or like, I mean, I just remember like touching their boobs and just being like fascinated, just being like, oh my God, those boobs are insane. Well, they were like insane. They're like pointy. I mean, yeah, they're nice boobs. They're nice boobs. They are. But okay. Yes. So, you know, it just, I think this in the seventies already, you can kind of see this theme of like, God damn guys. Not quite. Yeah. Not quite. And that's the theme throughout the rest of it. Oh. So in July, 1992, um,

They released a Teen Talk Barbie. Teen Talk? Teen Talk. So Barbie can now speak. Oh, okay.

She spoke a number of phrases, including, will I ever have enough clothes? I love shopping. Want to have a pizza party? Yes. I mean, always. Each doll was programmed to say four out of 270 possible phrases so that no two given dolls were likely to be the same. Wow. I mean, that's kind of impressive. Yeah, that really is. One of these 270 phrases was, math class is tough.

Although only about 1.5% of the dolls sold said this phrase, it led to the criticism that this was becoming problematic, that she is becoming representative of someone that is maybe not intelligent, doesn't want to learn. Like a bimbo is what they would say. Exactly. Which math class is tough.

Oh, my God. Guys, I can't even – I have stress dreams every night about like – Same. Going into math class and being called on and being like, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. It is just math class for me. Could I play devil's advocate for a second? Go for it. So I totally – it's problematic if you have a Barbie that is just like, do I have enough clothes? And math class is tough where –

But also, I don't know. Once again, safe space. It's good to do this. But as a kid, I would have been like, math class is tough. And then Barbie goes on to be an astronaut. So she overcame it. I don't know if the kids' minds go that way because I think someone would say, no, they're seeing a beautiful woman saying that math class is dumb instead of being like, I love to study. I love to do this. But there's so many different girls and it reaches so many different things. Right. Like you could argue that having her –

to thrive for this perfectionism is also problematic. She should maybe express that she's struggling in school. Yeah, I guess that's kind of what I'm saying. I don't know. Sometimes I think that...

There doesn't necessarily have to be a problem. But I do think that I can see when you said, I don't have enough clothes. Like my gut reaction was like, ooh, you know what I'm saying? But I don't know. No, I completely understand what you're saying. I think when it's all combined, that's where it gets tough. Of like shopping, I hate school. But I also think from the beginning of time, people, companies –

enterprises have tried to make a woman one specific thing. And you can't, like for me, horrible in math class. I'm a smart person. I'm a smart woman. Literally pretty much got, Lord knows. I mean, I essentially failed every math class I ever took. I took algebra three times. Yeah. Like,

And I think, you know, it just, it starts this really problematic narrative of like, if you're not good in one thing, that means you're not an intelligent woman. You know, it is just like, and how do you represent that in a doll and what she says? You can pick a number of phrases. What are you trying to tell young women? And it's kind of like you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.

But I totally understand what you're saying. Yeah. That, like, yeah, you don't have to, like, know all the right answers all the time. And we are a testament to that, aren't we? Cheers. Like, ow. Ow! Yeah. And the thing is, is, like, I don't think that they were going in there being, like – well, also, they're going in there being, like, relatable to all girls. She's bad at math. And it's, like, there's the problem. And that may be of where they're coming from. Right. You know? It's just interesting that that one phrase –

was so controversial because they immediately discontinued that specific doll or that one that said math class is tough and they said that they would offer to swap another Barbie to anyone that doll said that to make sure that it would never come out of that Barbie again. So people had a very strong reaction to that. I guess

if I gave my daughter a doll and the first phrases were, I don't have enough clothes. Math is hard. Then I'd be like, wait, what? Yeah. I mean, it's so much pressure. You're giving your kid, and this is also before, we're in the 90s. This is before iPads, before iPhones. You're having a very, I think toys probably had a heavier weight emotionally and psychologically than maybe we even think now because you're not getting all of that information. You're having this doll that's

literally speaking to you certain things that you're not hearing on social media. You know, so it's more contained in a way that like, I mean, I'm a kid of the nineties. I played with Barbies. I have pretty good like self-confidence and stuff, but we'll get into that later because it has affected people as well. Of course. Um,

So in 2002, Mattel introduced a line of pregnant Midge. Midge is pregnant. Of course Midge is pregnant. And baby dolls. But it was also quickly pulled because there were complaints that she promoted teen pregnancy. Oh, my God. What? How old is Midge? She was created in the 60s. They literally said Barbie's friend Midge is married and she's an adult and she should be able to get pregnant. And they were like, well, no, because it's not clear and little girls are going to think that they want to get pregnant.

At a young age. What? Also, I've never heard of this Midge. I don't either. I've never heard of her either. I thought her brunette friend's name was Teresa. Am I making that up? Oh, my God. Who was Teresa? I thought she was a brunette Barbie doll, but I don't know. That does sound so familiar. But Midge apparently got knocked up. She got knocked up, and then they were like, that's slutty, and we have to discontinue her. Oh, my gosh. But like, yes. Even though she's probably at this point, like what? She's like in her 40s? Yeah. Yeah.

She's like revolutionary for a woman. Yeah, like, okay. Like, that's enough right there. But yeah, so, you know, we're seeing a theme. However, the biggest controversy with Barbie has been about her body size. So obviously over the years, Barbie has generated huge mass sales. And people did – people were like, okay, on a positive side, Barbie has traditional –

like not traditional gender roles. And so that's great. She has a series of different jobs. There was a U S presidential candidate Barbie. Um, and then on the other hand, people are like, is this promoting this really materialistic lifestyle? She has these beautiful houses, clothes, the way she speaks, the way she looks. And specifically the way that she looked with her tiny waist and her enormous breasts.

It was estimated that if she were a real woman, her measurements would be that of 36, 18, 38. Which led, you know, many to complain that Barbie provided little girls with an unrealistic and harmful example of a fostered negative body image. I agree with that. I mean, an 18-inch waist is crazy.

Crazy. Well, according to research by the University Central Hospital in Helsinki, Finland, she would lack the 17 to 22% body fat required for a woman to even menstruate. Oh, that's tough. Tough. So, you know, she is very thin. I've also heard like if she were...

blown up into real size. Like she would literally break from her height and everything. She would not know. It like reminds me of that scene in book smart, you know, where they're like walking at the dolls and they're like, Holy shit. How do you live like this? Yeah. And, but like she would also collapse on herself because her measurements are so insane and don't make any sense. They're definitely completely unrealistic. Um, you know, so obviously she looks this way. There's been some problems along the journey of Barbie. Um,

Like Barbie Babysits came with a book entitled How to Lose Weight, which advised don't eat. The same book was included in another ensemble called Slumber Party in 1965 along with a pink bathroom scale that was set at 110 pounds. Where do these people get off on sending kids books that tell them not to eat? So this is where like –

In doing the research personally, I became a little bit more and more enraged because of course she looks a certain way and you're like, yeah, not realistic, not healthy, not something that you should be showing little girls that like that's the dream of like quadruple Ds and a size 18 waist, which is sickly. Yeah. I don't even think I realized how much that is ingrained in you as a little kid. No, I know. And, you know, and also at the same time, at least for me personally, when I had Barbie's,

And I'm lucky enough to have had a space with a mother who really had open communication with me of like, okay, so you're also watching The Little Mermaid. And she has this waist that is probably the same size as Barbie. That's not realistic. That's not what you need to look like. That's amazing that she did that. But, you know, I'm lucky in that way. And a lot of –

A lot of people don't have that dialogue. But then to add on to that of putting in books saying don't eat and to putting a specific number on the scale, that's where now they're responsible for damaging even beyond. Because you're giving someone a specific image, a number, a phrase. That's disgusting. I know. And that has nothing to do with playing with the toys. Like what? Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Exactly. And yeah, so that's just like, why even, why go there? This is no longer about envisioning. Like if we're going back to why she was invented, which was for little girls to have this vision of their future. And that's, why are you doing that? Yeah.

Ew. So really tough. Very disappointing. So disappointing. Also, like, who did that? Was it a man? Was it a woman? Gross. I know. And I wonder, too, like, I mean, Ruth has never, like, given statements on that. And she has now since passed. And I just truly wonder, like, do you have any sort of guilt? Let's get a Ouija board out and channel Ruth. I'm going to go right now. And ask her. Ruth, what the hell are you thinking? What the hell are you thinking? Yeah. So, you know...

Things like this were happening. They've done a lot of studies, psychological studies, of putting little girls – little girls, I know, that sounds creepy to say. Young women. It sounds creepy to me. Putting children that identify as – Little girls doesn't sound creepy to me. I'm going to say little girls. It creeps me out when people are like, when I was a little girl. Yeah, we were talking about this the other day. But they've done a lot of studies of putting girls, you know, four to six into –

the Mattel's headquarters and kind of seeing what happens and how they talk about Barbie. And there has since been a newly released Barbie, which I'll get to in a second, who has a different body size. And there's been a lot of more varieties, but they have studied what, you know, children are literally saying about the quote, traditional Barbie and then newer Barbies. And they,

Most of the feedback that has come from like six-year-old girls has been very reluctant to say what they think about the new Barbie, that they seem to be very like bashful and they don't want to –

About the new Barbie. About the new Barbie. And so what happened in this recent study at the headquarters was when an adult came in and was like, hey, like, what are the differences that you see? The girls all kind of looked at each other and they were like, well, I don't want to hurt her feelings, one of them said. And then the other one said, well, this one's a little chubbier. She's, well, you know, and then she spells out and whispers F-A-T.

Wow. What? And just like, there's so much to unpack there. Well, there's like these girls that are struggling with, you know, using like political correctness. Right. To not even say the word fat says a lot about what our country has put onto fat shaming and wow. And so Tanya Massad, I hope I pronounced that correctly, who was leading the study,

She said, we see it a lot. The adult leaves the room and they undress the curvy Barbie and they snicker a little bit. To me, it's these moments where it really sets in how important it is that we do this. And, you know, just to – it's hard stuff to hear because, you know, a six-year-old saying that is –

You just realize how impressionable everyone is from such a young age. That is crazy because they've gotten these Barbies so much earlier. And so they see her and then all of a sudden they see something different. Yeah. The most compelling, which was a 2006 study published in the journal Developmental Psychology, found that girls exposed to Barbie at a young age expressed greater concern with being thin compared to those exposed to other dolls. Wow. Yeah.

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Rammies, I'm going to let you in on a little secret, and I'm going to say something that you probably have never heard a soon-to-be bride say, and that is that I love wedding planning. I have had such an amazing, fun, light experience doing it with my fiance, and that is a huge thanks to Zola. So with Zola, you can plan your entire wedding in one convenient place.

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everything you need to make this process super easy and fun. And this should just be a pleasurable experience that you get to share with someone you love. And I'm really appreciative that Zola has just let us do that. There's even a five-star app that helps you plan on the go on your couch. So if you and your future husband or wife are watching a movie, having a glass of wine, plan your wedding

from the couch. Do it wherever you want because this is all about you. So here's what you're going to do. You're going to start planning at Zola.com. That's Z-O-L-A.com. You can thank me later. Human beings are so crazy. It is truly crazy. Like truly that you get a piece of plastic that is shaped a certain way and it can change your life forever. Mm-hmm.

And how is that really different than watching a movie or, you know, all Disney movies are just skinny white women lusting after men, essentially. You also have very unrealistic bodies. But, I mean, do you feel like that ingrains something in you? I think a movie compared to a doll. I think that they're both different.

Very impressionable. I have dealt with body issues myself. I don't think I'm necessarily unique in that as being a woman. Of course, yeah. I think there's so many factors that lead up to that. And it's been going on for so long that it's hard to say, like, it's more specifically the doll. It's more specifically the movie. It's like, it's all of the magazines. Yes, it's all of these things. And I feel very hopeful that...

Things are getting introduced to girls at a younger age that are more inclusive. But yeah, I mean, of course it's impressionable. Yeah. Yeah. How could it not be? Because you're saying Barbie is this icon. You want to be like her, everything about her. Here's how she looks. Exactly. So if you're going to have her, like you're just going to want to be just like her. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, we can all...

I agree that that affected us. I think for some people, like for me, I think I was the most like, holy shit, with like actual like celebrities that was really like, why can't I be – why can't I look like that? Why am I not that pretty? Like Mary-Kate and Ashley were a big one for me where I just was like, I'll always be a hideous monster. I still feel that way looking at you. And like Hilary Duff, like real people affected me a lot more in that way of like –

fuck, like, what am I doing over here? But, I mean, I wish I had more vivid memories of playing with Barbies and sort of wondering, like, if there, yeah, if I had any, like, cognitive memory of, like, I should look like this. I can still specifically feel what it feels like to feel her waist. You know what I'm saying? Same, because it goes, like, in. In. It's, like, slicky and it goes down and

And I bet a lot of you can relate to that right now. So I think that proves their point right there. Wow. That like me as an adult can still remember that feeling perfectly. Oh, I have chills. Right? Yeah. But so it's like, of course it does. No, for sure. That just like stays with you for so long. And also...

There are naturally thin women out there. I'm not here to body shame that as well. Of course not. We need more inclusivity. Yes. And yes, there should not be shaming no matter what you look like, what you want to look like, what you ask your plastic surgeon to make you look like. Obviously, there's problematic things of why we think we should look a certain way. Everyone –

There's no shame in anything. But I mean, that's an interesting point of just feeling that physical memory of, you know, which shows how iconic she is problematically and not. Yes, exactly. So needless to say, in 2016 was the first time that new body shapes were introduced. That is crazy that it took that long. 2016, guys, like that's when we were all adults. I mean, that's when I was...

You know what I'm saying? Like that's when we're no longer playing with Barbies and we're fucking grownups and we're like, oh now. I mean, if this started in the very late fifties, early sixties, and now it's 2016 and we're changing it up to show more potty types, that's,

Like, where have you been? But when you think about it, too, in, like, the 90s and early 2000s, we're still seeing sitcom friends. All of them white, size 0 to 2 women. Low-rise jeans everywhere. Yes. And that's, you know, Paris Hilton, Nicole Richie, Lindsay Lohan. You know, it was just very, quote-unquote, trendy to be a stick. It's like the phrase cocaine chic. Mm-hmm. It's...

It's so problematic. It's just like beyond. Yeah. So I think it took them a little bit too long, you could say. But 2016, so four body types were introduced, seven skin tones, 22 eye colors, and 24 hairstyles. Amazing. So yes for progress. I mean, you know, one could argue four body types, that's not even close to enough. But, you know, hey, I'm happy that she's no longer –

Has 17% body fat. Yeah. Like there is, it's a start. You know, however, then there's still the issue of where's the racial diversity in Barbie? So Black Barbie was launched in 1980. Yeah.

1980? But she still had Caucasian features. Oh. And she was called Black Barbie. Wow. And it's not like Barbie was called White Barbie. Right. You know? Yes. It's like, you're different. Yeah. So there's Barbie and then there's Black Barbie. Not okay. So in 1990, Mattel created a focus group with African-American children and parents, early childhood specialists, and clinical psychologist Darlene Powell Hudson. Okay.

Instead of using the same molds for the Caucasian Barbies, new ones were created. In addition, facial features, skin tones, hair texture, and names were all altered. I also think it's also important for parents to buy Barbies that don't look like your child's. For white children, you know what I'm saying? A hundred percent. Yeah. So, you know, once again, it all circles back to like, let's try to do the right thing. And then they're just not...

They're not getting it. They're not doing exactly what they should be doing. So Mattel teamed up with...

Nabiasco? Nabiasco? Which is National Biscuit Company. Yeah, yeah. I know that. Oh, I didn't know that. I feel like I know – I mean, I think I know what you're talking about. So they tried to launch a cross-promotion of Barbie with Oreo cookies. Yeah, does that say, like, Oreos? Yeah. Is it Nabisco? Nabisco. Did I say Nabiasco? Good God. Guys –

Nabisco. Don't even listen to me anymore. I'm going to officially resign. No, don't do it. Don't leave me alone. It's now just Claire. Goodbye, everybody. Everyone's like, well, yes, then we're leaving with you. That is not true. Guys, who do you like better? Just say it. It's Claire, isn't it? It's not true. It's Nabisco. Nabisco. Oh, my God. Is this episode a wash? People love it.

Oreo Fun Barbie was marketed as someone with whom young girls could play with after class and share America's favorite cookie. I mean, that's really smart to do branding like that. Oh, you know, hey, it sure is. Mattel manufactured both a white and black version.

Critics argue that in the African-American community, Oreo is a derogatory term, meaning that the person is black on the outside and white on the inside, like the chocolate sandwich cookie itself. So the doll was unsuccessful. Oh, my God. They're like, shit. They're like, once again, God damn it. We're like, stop making these dumb decisions.

And she was pulled out from the stores. God, I feel like Barbie is just like your aunt who's trying to be woke and then it's like getting it wrong every time. That's exactly what it is. So soon after the Oreo debacle, Mattel found themselves under fire again following the release of Share a Smile, Becky. Advertisement.

A doll who used a pink wheelchair. Unfortunately, Cher's smile Becky endured some of the same accessibility issues people in wheelchairs face every day. Becky's wheelchair could not navigate Barbie's dream house. She did not fit into the elevator. She could not be put inside Barbie's vehicles. Barbie's long hair also had a habit of getting caught in the wheels. So people were enraged. Yeah.

Where people like... So they come out with this Barbie who's in a wheelchair and where they like, I don't see a wheelchair accessible anymore.

elevator in barbie's house yes so like why can you come up with this but then not give her like the same privileges okay of what barbie has like if she's in a wheelchair well then you gotta fucking put a ramp in the house and like things like that so people were like you can't do one thing and not do the other do you think that they were well and this on them they were just like we didn't even think about that i honestly do yeah i think like you said it's like the aunt being like this

good, right? And people are being like, but no, because like, let's say that there's somebody that also is in a wheelchair that's playing with this and being like, well, now I'm playing in her house, but she can't even go up to her bedroom. Like, how does that work out? So, a new version of Share a Smile Becky was launched with shorter hair, but that's really all that they did. They were like, well, that could help, but she was soon discontinued. It was a fail. That's such a shame because there's so much potential there. I think...

They would try one thing and then be scared by the – Cancel culture? Yes. By the negative response to it. And I think they had – I do think they had good intentions. Yeah. I think they just weren't – their team was not fully thinking of it. Yeah. Who is their team? It's a really good question. Like, what? Probably a bunch of white privileged people. Yeah. Totally. Totally. So –

In more recent years, they have really tried to step it up. Like for International Women's Day in 2018, Mattel released a new batch of dolls based on real-life role models. So there was Frida Kahlo, Amelia Earhart. It was called the Inspiring Women Historic Collection. There were Olympic champions. It was really trying to – Didn't Simone Biles have one or something? Or maybe I made that up. She probably did. Yeah. This was in 2018.

Some criticism followed of like the Frida Kahlo Barbie face criticism for whitewashing the Mexican artist, minimizing her unibrow and inaccurately representing her clothes. Mara de Ander Romeo.

Well, actually, her great-grandniece, she said, you don't turn a doll into Frida Kahlo by putting flowers in her hair and giving her a colorful dress. So once again, I think it's hard to give someone so amazing like Frida Kahlo to transfer her to a doll. Yeah. And then obviously, there's going to be backlash of something that they could have done better. So needless to say –

There are so many controversies with Barbie. There are, there have in the middle East, um, Barbie used to be popular there. And then about 2003, um,

They basically said she does not represent traditional Islamic values. We cannot support this anymore. Do you know what values that was that she didn't support? It said that revealing clothes and shameful postures, accessories, and tools are a symbol of decadence to the perverted West. Let us beware of her dangers and be careful. This is in 2003. Oh, damn. That's really intense.

So in July 2010, Mattel released a Barbie video girl, a Barbie doll with a pinhole camera in her chest, enabling clips of up to 30 minutes to be recorded, viewed, and uploaded to a computer via a USB cable. And then the FBI is like, this is just going to promote child pornography. Yeah. Wait, what? Yeah. Wait. Just like, anyway. What?

Wait, I'm sorry. Whoa. Why would they ever do that? Why? Once again, try and change the times. Like 2010, that's a couple years after the iPhone was released. They were like, oh, Barbie can now be this like, she can be involved with technology and you can record things with her. And then they're like,

don't do this. Yeah. Um, although it stated publicly that there was no reported evidence that the doll had been used in, in that way. I'm sure people. Oh yeah. That's too, that it's just, you're asking for things. You're really asking for it. Ew. Yeah. But you know, let's talk about some of the more iconic things and ways that, um, she's been really positive. Um,

So there have been more than 40 international Barbies that have been created. There's been a drag queen Barbie. There's been a chemo Barbie named Ella. Um,

It has been said the Economist has emphasized the importance of Barbies to a child's imagination, stating from her early days as a teenage fashion model, Barbie has appeared as an astronaut, surgeon, Olympic athlete, downhill skier, aerobics instructor, TV news reporter, vet, rock star, doctor, army officer, Air Force pilot. This goes on forever and ever and ever. When Barbie first burst into the toy shops, just as the 1960s were breaking, she was

The doll market consisted mostly of Barbie's design for girls to cradle, rock, and feed. By creating a doll with adult features, Mattel enabled girls to become anything they want. Mm-hmm. At 60 years old, Barbie has transcended the toy store shelf or the Amazon warehouse, you could say. Oh, yeah, that's true. She stars in a Netflix series, Barbie Dreamhouse Adventures. She has almost 40 animated films to her name. Wow. Yeah.

Barbie. And in January, it was announced that Margot Robbie will now be playing Barbie in a live-action movie directed by Greta Gerwig and written by... Oh, what is her name? She wrote Ocean's 8. Olivia Mitch. I cannot wait for that movie and just to see what they do with it. And yes, for female producers. Margot Robbie's producing it, obviously, directing and written by a woman. I'm so excited to see. I think it's going to be...

really important of them. I'm sure they're going to deliver a positive message. I agree. That's why I'm so excited to see how they take this story with Barbie. Me too. I'm curious to see how people are going. I really want to hear y'all's feedback and like what your story and what your thoughts are with Barbie, because I understand why she is

controversial, negative. I just loved Barbie growing up so much. I'm glad that they're trying to improve her. Yes. And like, it's crazy. It just, I keep thinking, it's crazy that a piece of plastic is so impactful. It is crazy. And it's like the same thing of like, how could a, you know, something you watch on a TV screen,

change your entire life or trajectory or body image. Like, I mean, it's all these things that no matter what you hold or view or we're so impressionable. Yeah. And there is a lot of responsibility, you know, in having such, you know, in 2020, probably had $1.3 billion in sales.

Wow, it's still so big. She is literally... She is a certified... What does it say? A certified social media icon. She has 2 million followers on Instagram. You can follow her and watch her, you know, like... Barbie has an Instagram? She sure does. I know. I was shook by that, too. She... You what? I was shook by it, too. Oh, my gosh, yes. She has, like, kept up with the times. She's kept up with the times. Yeah, and, you know, to this day, she...

She's a quote-unquote social media influencer still. She's on YouTube. She posts animated vlogs. She is still on these platforms, white, blonde, and slim. So for her main – where people are going to be seeing her, her main platform, she still does appear as that – She'll always be that person.

Do the different body types have different names or they're still just Barbie? That's a good question. I would like for them to just be Barbie. I think they are because I don't think – you know, I know back in the day it was like Christmas Barbie, like workout Barbie. I doubt that they would change anything to like curvier Barbie or something. I mean, that would be insane. I don't think that they have. That's something I should look up. And if you guys know, please let us know. Yeah, please do. Yeah.

But that's about the gist of the history of our gal. It's just so interesting that she – Barbara, she is so – Barbara Roberts? Barbara Roberts. Yeah, Barbara – what was it? Not Melissa. Not Melissa. Melissa Roberts. Wow. I mean, talk about staying relevant, which is so hard to do these days. Also, Barbie –

I always think about life size, the tire bangs. Yep. Oh, for sure. That was like my biggest dream is to have one of my Barbies come to life. Oh my God, I know. Yeah. And like, you know, she's been, she's always been on our minds. Like even with like, you know, I'm a Barbie girl in a Barbie world. Yes. Like all of that has just been, it stayed with us. I wonder if they'll ever, um...

market to boys more because there's also that aspect of it that I'm sure there were boys who would have loved to play with a Barbie but it's always marketed towards girls and it's a girl thing and totally I think the toy industry has a lot of responsibility yeah and a very far way to go of like you know and it's everything with gender roles of like do not you do not have to give your son a

A G.I. Joe. Exactly. And you don't have to give your girl, you know, a doll and a pretty dress. Like there just needs – there needs to be inclusivity and variety in anything, especially with children that are just – this is literally going to make an impact. Yeah. I mean, hey, I'm no parent. I'm neither. Thank God. Thank God. They'd be like, why are you always recording and drinking at 3 p.m.? Don't ask about it. Honey, you're fine. Yeah, you're fine. Go back into the room. You're fine.

Wow. So interesting. Just she changed the world. She did. She really, really did. Wow. And, you know, yeah, like Claire said, we'd love to hear your stories and your experiences and how Barbie may or may not have shaped you. Did you chop off her hair? I did. Oh, yeah. And just drew all over her. All over her. And then just on a scissor. Okay, I'm going to say it. Okay? We've all been thinking it. I'm going to say it. It's so true.

Finally, we got there. We got to some honesty. Yeah. I mean, I remember feeling like confused when I would make them naked and like do that. Like I just was like, is this what sex is? Yeah. They don't really have like genitalia. Yeah. But I still feel like something. Something a bruise in my body. And they didn't talk about that in Toy Story and they should have. They sure should have. Like guys, when you make your dolls have sex.

And Barbie's come out of it and they're like, well. Yeah. They're like, we didn't ask for this. I'm exhausted. This is what makes you feel better in your understanding of your own womanhood, sure. We're here for you in that way. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I'm excited to hear y'all's thoughts and stories on Barbie. Yeah. Let us know. And I'm excited for the movie. Really excited for the movie. Oh, me too. It's going to be so good. That was terrifying. What's wrong? Someone started calling. Oh. And in the air, in the...

It was so loud. Oh, no. That's painful. That was shocking. Shocking. Shocking to the system.

Anyway, guys, thanks for sticking through this. I am sufficiently tipsy. I don't know why. I haven't drank more than I usually do. I'm worried that I'm not. Are you not? No. And it's like – Have I seemed drunk? Huh? Have I seemed drunk? No, you don't seem drunk. I don't think you seem drunk. I'm just like disappointed that I don't feel drunk because that would probably be better. Let me take another sip. All right, kids. Well, we love you guys. Yes. Thank you for listening. It's been a really great day.

If you have not, please give us five stars. Yes. Write us a little review. Follow us on Instagram. I really want to know what you guys want to know the history on. Don't be shy. Don't be shy. Literally be like, we don't, we're not going to do a prompt on it. Like literally just tell us. Just tell us so that we can know and we can, you know. Please you. Be of the people. Oh, we love to please you. Yes. We're here to please.

All right, guys. We will see you next Monday. Yeah. See you next Monday. Go play with Barbie. Goodbye.