William Devin Howell | Sick Ripper feat. Anne K. Howard - Part 2
01:03:29 Share

Ryan Reynolds here from Intmobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So, we're going to talk about how to bring our prices down.

So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing. Mint Mobile Unlimited Premium Wireless. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch.

$45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three-month plan only. Taxes and fees extra. Speeds lower above 40 gigabytes in detail. To get people excited about Boost Mobile's new nationwide 5G network, we're offering unlimited talk, text, and data for $25 a month. Forever. Even if you have a baby. Even if your baby has a baby.

Even if you grow old and wrinkly and you start repeating yourself. Even if you start repeating yourself. Even if you're on your deathbed and you need to make one last call. Or text. Right, or text. The long lost son you abandoned at birth. You'll still get unlimited talk, text, and data for just $25 a month with Boost Mobile. Forever. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan. Forever. Selling a little or a lot.

Shopify helps you do your thing however you cha-ching. Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. From the launch your online shop stage to the first real life store stage. All the way to the did we just hit a million orders stage.

Shopify is there to help you grow. Shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the Internet's best converting checkout. 36% better on average compared to other leading commerce platforms. Because businesses that grow, grow with Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash work. Shopify.com slash work.

Welcome to the Serial Killer Podcast, the podcast dedicated to serial killers. Who they were, what they did, and how. I am your Norwegian host, Thomas Vaborg Thu, and tonight we are back in the United States for an expose of a somewhat lesser known serial killer.

This episode is part two and the final part of my closer look at Connecticut's most prolific serial killer. Great things are happening to the Serial Killer Podcast. Thanks to my sponsors, and of course you, dear listener, I bring to you a fresh new episode every single week.

As an added bonus, the lovely introduction music you just listened to is available. Go to theserialkillerpodcast.com to download this exclusive ringtone now, and you won't regret it. Also, do not miss out on exciting news, such as the Kickstarter project we got going with the premium mug that changes color as it heats up.

So, sign up at theserialkillerpodcast.com slash tellme. Naturally, being the modern podcast host that I am, I have a Facebook fan page for my dear listeners. Go to facebook.com slash theskpodcast for Facebook live events and frequent interaction with me, your humble host.

Your support means a lot to me, and I hope to continue to bring you high-quality content for a long time to come. If you would like to donate, please go to theserialkillerpodcast.com slash donate, or simply go to patreon.com slash theserialkillerpodcast directly.

If you're unable to contribute, then you can still help out by telling your friends about your favorite podcast and helping us grow through word of mouth. The larger my fanbase gets, the more stable this program becomes and the more resources we'll be able to devote to it in the future. Imagine, if you will, dear listener, the early noughties.

Your humble host was 22 years old back in 2003, and the horror of 9-11 was still fairly fresh on everyone's mind. 50 Cent, with his hit In The Club, was topping the Billboard Top 40 lists, along with other artists such as Three Doors Down and Matchbox 20.

We find ourselves in the southernmost parts of New England in the United States of America. The following is a prologue from a very fascinating book called His Garden by Anne K. Howard. In just nine months, from February to October 2003, seven individuals in and around New Britain, Connecticut, went missing.

all of their bodies were subsequently found in close proximity to one another in a wooded lot behind a suburban strip mall the mall could not have appeared more ordinary in location or style and yet for many years

As patrons ate at Subway, paid to have their car mufflers fixed, or their hair cut, purchased their beer, or poked around Daddy's Junkie Music Store, the bodies of the killer's victims lay rotting on the swampy earth located just a few hundred yards away. Howard has written an excellent book about a rather unknown serial killer who murdered seven people between 2003 and 2004.

This might not be as high a kill count as more ravenous serial killers such as Ted Bundy and Pedro Lopez, but this does not diminish his depravity. His name is William Devin Howell, and this episode will be an expose into his life and crimes. So, let us move on into the actual crimes themselves.

We have talked about the seven victims, and you mentioned the first victim. Can you explain how he went about killing her? Yes. William Devon Howell picked up Melanie Camolini on February 1st of 2003.

And he picked her up on the streets of Waterbury, Connecticut. As with all of his other victims, it was about 1 or 2 a.m. in the morning. That's when he would go searching for victims after the bars had closed. And so he found her on the streets and hired her, and she stepped into his van. Now, at that time, in the hours preceding picking up his first victim,

had gone to the hardware store and he had walked down the aisles and purchased all of the items that he would need in the commission of the crime. It was premeditated. He knew that the woman that he picked up that night, that he would not only repeatedly rape her, but he would also have to kill her in order to conceal the evidence.

And so Howell told me when he walked in that hardware store, he was excited, he was nervous, his adrenaline was rushing through his veins, he was very afraid, and he purchased the duct tape and the zip ties and the cords that he would need in the commission of the crimes. He drove Melanie Camolini to a neighboring town

of Torrington, Connecticut, and he parked that van that he called his murder mobile. It was a 1985 Ford Econoline van, and he parked it in the back of the parking lot of a business establishment where he worked at one time. It was a roofing company. And in that parking lot,

Howell repeatedly raped Melanie Camolini. He then drove her to a neighboring wooded area. It's a state park. It's called Little Woodstock because like the real Woodstock in New England, it's where people go to party and sit around the campfire and listen to music. And so this was early in

morning on a freezing cold winter day. So nobody was out in the woods at Little Woodstock. Howard was very familiar with the place because he used to go there and party there with his friends. And so he raped Melanie Kamalini for the seventh or eighth time.

He thought that killing her would be easier than he predicted. He had a hammer and he whacked her on the side of the head in the temple with that hammer. And he tells me that Melanie Camelini was not even fazed by it. It did not knock her out. And she pled with power. She pled with him. Please don't kill me. She said she had children.

And she begged that he not take her life because of her children. Nonetheless, Powell struggled. He told me he struggled in that moment. I can't. Can I do this? It was his first victim. He thought, can I can I really pull this off? Can I do it? He said he almost didn't do it. He almost held back from killing her. He wondered, is she even a drug addicted woman?

Because for Howell, if you're drug addicted, that means you're worthless. You're an object. She seems so nice, he said. She seems so pretty and nice. And yet somehow he found it within himself. The evil took over and the practicality of having to get rid of the evidence. He strangled her. Now with Melanie Camillini.

She was the only one he could not look in the eye as he strangled her. He could not look her in the eye. He was very ashamed. He strangled her. He took her outside of the van and he tried to bury her. But the ground was frozen in February in New England. And so he brought her back inside of the van. And this is perhaps one of the more grisly parts of my book. But he wrapped her up in tarp.

And he slept behind her body for several weeks in the back of his van. He didn't know what to do with that body, where to put it, with the frozen ground. He removed a ring on her finger. He kept that ring. He told me he kept it to remind him of the day he became a monster. And eventually, he went so far in a state of desperation that

to hide or conceal the identity of this woman in case the police eventually found her, he sliced off her fingertips and he dismantled her jaw in an attempt to remove the teeth or the fingerprints so that police would not be able to identify her at a later date. And so she bled out in the back of his van

And that blood just saturated the plywood in the bottom of his van. He then went to the back of the strip mall in New Britain, and he tossed her corpse into a wooded ravine at the edge of that parking lot.

He ran down into the wooded ravine and there was a large plastic barrel amidst some other litter and discarded waste. And he actually put this poor woman's body into that barrel. He then left for Virginia, as was his routine in the winter months, to go to a warmer climate for the winter.

And he returned several months later in April of 2003 to take Melanie's body out of that barrel. And he tells me it was rigor mortis because of the ice cold temperatures. The body was still not decomposed.

and he dragged the body several hundred feet into the woods, into what would be his burial ground for not just Melanie but his other six victims. The earth in that area is swampy. It's 15 acres of state-owned forest. Powell chose just three-fourths of an acre as his burial ground.

He dug shallow graves because if he went beyond two feet, water would start to come up from that ground. And so he buried a shallow grave and simply went about his life, went back to his girlfriend that day and lived life as if nothing had happened. Right. This burial ground...

is, as you say, central to the case of Mr. Howell. Have you been there? The answer to that question is yes and no. I've been to the back of that strip mall many times over. I have entered the burial ground. I would say I've gone as far as

possibly 75 feet into the wooded area, trying to explore it. However, the burial ground is probably 200 or 300 feet away from where I went. And there are several reasons why I did not go all the way into the burial ground. The first is that it is very difficult to access.

It is heavily wooded and there are lots of thistles and thorns. And so that helps you to understand why William Devon Howe was shrewd enough to decide to have that as the location for the burial ground because people won't be walking back there to explore the woods, whether it be the casual hiker or a hunter.

Hunting is not allowed in that area, and in fact, nobody is allowed in that area because there is a chain-linked fence that lines the edge of that parking lot with no trespassing signs posted on that fence.

So I was acutely aware that as an attorney, it probably wouldn't be in my best interest to break the law. And so I never actually went back to that burial ground. I have seen many pictures of it that came from detectives who went back there, that came from the people who did the digging. I've sat down and talked to many of the detectives that were part of the excavation of that burial ground.

I know that there is a large wooden cross there that law enforcement has put up on that burial ground.

to mark the grave site of these seven victims. So I have certainly also gone to the edge of the parking lot and looked at the deep ravine. It goes about 30 feet from the edge of the parking lot into where William Devon Howe would throw the bodies. What he would do is he would drive his murder mobile up to the edge of the parking lot, slide open the door,

take the body out and very quickly throw it over the guardrail and it would tumble down into the ravine. And so I have actually walked into that ravine where the bodies were initially deposited before he dragged them into the burial ground. And I looked up and seen that

you know, it really is a very clandestine place, that ravine, where if anyone were just driving by in the parking lot, they would not be able to look down and see what was down in that ravine. I have also visited the McDonald's parking lot, which is right next to the strip mall parking lot. And that is where, after Howell, which

would toss his bodies into the ravine. He would then jump back into his van, go out to the roadway and circle into the neighboring McDonald's parking lot. It's there that he would park his van and then cut up a little dirt trail that led back to the strip mall parking lot where he would go into the ravine. I see.

Moving on a bit to the murder of Nilsa. You mention in your book, quite graphically, how he raped and murdered her. You tell of how he raped the woman several times in just a few hours before killing her. Then he returned home and had sex with his girlfriend. Now, it's not normal for an adult man to have sex to completion so many times during one day.

Reading this and how Mr. Howell's sexual appetite seemed to never be full, would I be correct in describing him as a nymphomaniac? I think you may be correct in that classification. It's one of two things, his sexual prowess. He could just have a hugely animalistic, inhuman sexual appetite.

that could result in him being able to perform like that in a 12-hour period seven or eight times with each victim and then return a few hours later to his girlfriend and perform yet again. On the other hand, I recently spoke to his defense attorney about this.

I gave my book manuscript several months ago before submitting it to the publisher to not only the defense attorneys, but also to several victims, family members who I interviewed for the book. I wanted to get their approval of its contents. That was very important to me. I also gave a copy of my manuscript to

to the main detective who really brought William Devon Howell down, and that would be Detective Robert DeRome. So when William Devon Howell's defense attorneys read my manuscript, the only thing they said to me in response that they questioned the accuracy of was whether or not Howell did in fact have that level of sexual prowess

And one of the attorneys felt that Howell was exaggerating it. He was boasting about it and that he was not, in fact, as capable of doing what he did in terms of performing like he said.

So perhaps there is an element of boasting and exaggerating, but I also write in the book that Howell has told me that he has been with well over 1,000 prostitutes over the years. And keep in mind, a great many of those years since he started soliciting prostitutes at the age of 14 were spent in prison.

So when you look at the amount of prostitutes that he would frequent with when he was out of prison, coupled with the fact that he always had romantic relationships with women simultaneous to soliciting prostitutes, I think it's fair to say that he has an inhuman sexual appetite. Indeed.

Now, dear listener, before I continue the interview where we will go more into detail about his murders, here is an audio clip of William Devon Howell describing his preferred victim type. Why are you willing to talk to me about everything and why have you been willing to talk to me since we first got together?

Because when you first wrote me, you were open and upfront and didn't bullshit. You helped me when I needed help. And I gave you my word. And I'm always trying to keep my word. As bad as the things I did, I still try to keep my word, you know? Right. So you feel like it seems to me like if you didn't have this one dark side of you,

And you subtract that dark side of you, you're left with a good man. That's exactly how I felt.

You know what I mean? That's how I still feel. I don't feel like I'm an evil person. I just feel like I'm a good guy that did some evil things. You know what I mean? I mean, at my core, I've always tried to be a good person. You know what I mean? I've always tried to treat people the way that I would want to be treated, you know? But, I mean, I just did some fucked up things. I don't know. I let my head get away from me. Mm-hmm.

I agree, totally. And I didn't go to a bar and try and meet chicks at a bar and think evil thoughts of them while I'm meeting them, you know what I mean? And, you know, it's not like, it kind of bothers me a little bit when I hear these people that knew me say, oh gosh, that could have been me because those kind of thoughts never even crossed my mind, you know what I mean? Oh, I went out with him one night and

I could have been the one that he killed because, you know, shit like that never even crossed my mind. I never even thought about it for an instant, you know what I mean? Yeah. So that shit, you know... This call is subject to recording and monitoring. He bought me a drink at the bar and I could have left with him and I could have been dead. It would have never happened, you know?

Yeah, I know. And I've always come back to those people and said, no, you're not part of the target group. You would have been totally safe. There was a reason why that old woman got in your van and drove to Home Depot. I've said, I've come around after knowing you and getting rid of the whole he's a serial killer thing out of my head and after getting to know you as a human being that

I would honestly have no trouble getting into your car, going to Home Depot to pick up bushes or having you come to me. I wasn't a bad person. I just did a bunch of bad shit. You know what I mean? I know. Like I say, I target these prostitutes. Like I say, I've picked up prostitutes over years. I don't even know if I had a big hatred for the prostitutes as much

As more it was just like a fantasy, you know what I mean? Because I had...

There was this one that frequented the New Britain Plaza. I picked her up one night, and she wanted to get a room, so we got a room. I stayed with her all night. And then I'd see her in the New Britain Plaza, and sometimes she'd flag me down, and she just asked me, will she give me free sex just to be able to use the van to rest and relax and be safe for a while, you know what I mean?

and shoot her dope. She'd shoot her dope, and she'd just chill out, and we'd sit there, and we'd talk for like, you know, a couple hours or something sometimes. You know, just a place for her to chill out and feel safe, and then I'd go pick up another prostitute and murder her and kill her, you know what I mean? Yeah. It's...

There's no one in our nation.

I just didn't associate it toward these prostitutes that I killed. You know what I mean? To me, they were just like objects. I didn't even... I don't know. I got past that somehow. You know what I mean? I'm not sure how, but they were just... I just used them for my pleasure, my satisfaction.

And I killed them, and I justified it by saying the streets are cleaner, and they put themselves in the position. You know what I mean? That's how you coped with it. Yeah, that's how I rationalized it in my mind. But, I mean, I can't even say that I hate prostitutes in general. I just...

It was like a fantasy for me to just, you know, to treat them the way I treated them. And I can't really explain it. I don't know what it is. That woman that was in your van that you would talk to for long periods of time, um,

Do you think, given the right circumstances, if you didn't have a long care schedule the next day, that you could have, having gotten to know her and talk to her and felt, you know, kindness towards her, could you have flipped the switch and... No. No? No. Of course I knew her. Well, that's the thing. But I say that, but then again, I knew Erin's Mindy on the other hand, too. You did.

...Christmas parties and stuff and raised them. She was a really good mother until she hooked up with this guy and she... You know what, Ann? They all at one time were good people, but that's not who I picked up. Right, yeah. That's who their family remembers. That's who their family members remember. But that's not the same person that I picked up walking the street. Do you feel like maybe just like you are a good person...

and have a lot of good qualities, and that's the reason I've been able to talk to you for two and a half years, because if you were a purely evil person, I wouldn't want to talk to you, and I wouldn't feel comfortable with you like I do. Do you feel just like you're a good person with a dark side? Is there any way you can get to the point of thinking of them as good people with a dark side, like you? Well, they probably were, Anne, and like I say, I don't...

I don't know what their future could have held for them because I snuffed that out for them. You know what I mean? Maybe they could have gotten straight and maybe they could have cleaned up their life or maybe they could have went on to do worse things. Maybe they, you know, maybe in a way I saved a lot of people a lot of harm. You know what I mean? I saved a lot of thefts. I saved a lot of petty crime. I don't know.

But I know that they were all good people at one time. At some time, they were all good people. But I didn't think about that, and I put that out of my mind. I couldn't humanize them, you know what I mean? If they tried to talk about their families or whatever and shit like that, I'd tell them to shut the fuck up, you know? Because I didn't want to humanize them because...

Once I attacked him, I had to kill him because in my mind I wasn't going to let him go, you know what I mean? As with many sexually motivated serial killers, Mr. Howell had a very typical ritualistic modus operandi. He killed his victims in a very specific way and in a very specific place.

You have touched on this during our talk so far, but can you describe again what this typical way and place is to our listeners, please? William Devon Howe would always pick up his victims very early in the morning. And of course, it was still dark out. He did so knowing that he had no lawn care schedule the next day.

During the nine-month time period when William Devon Howe committed these crimes and went on this killing spree, he performed work as a lawn care worker, mowing people's lawns. And he showed me his logbook or his schedule that he had at that time, which indicated that

various customers' lawns that needed mowing and how much each one paid him. So on the days when he knew he would not have to mow lawns, then he knew that he was free the night before to pick up one of his victims at one or two in the morning and proceed to mow

raped them repeatedly over the course of 12-hour periods into the next afternoon because he did not have to show up at work. And so, unfortunately, you know, the women that walked into his van on these specific evenings were walking into a death chamber.

Whereas Howell tells me that he solicited many other prostitutes during that same nine-month time period and that they left his van unharmed simply because he had to go to work the next day.

And William Howe would pick these women up and always go to locations that were well known to area residents and commit all of these crimes in the back of his van. So, for example, he would park at a McDonald's parking lot. He would park at one in Waterbury, another one in New Britain.

He would park in the parking lots of Motel 6 and Motel 8. And so as he was committing these crimes and these poor women were being held captive and tortured and raped, there would be cars in these parking lots around where this chaos was taking place.

He would, in between the rapes, tie them back up to the back bench of that van. He would wrap their hands in plastic bags and bind their hands together and tell these women,

If I hear that bag shaking, if I hear rustling coming from that bag, I'm going to kill you. I don't want you to move. I want you to stay still. And he would drive about to different parking lots at different locations to commit the second rape or the third rape or the fourth rape. He explained to me that he would never stay in one commercial parking lot for too long to avoid detection.

And often with his victims, and this is just a terrible thing to think about, but he would go through drive-thrus of franchises, of fast food franchises. So he would go through the McDonald's drive-thru to get some food, and he would turn up the volume in his radio station.

so that the person taking his order through the window could not hear if anybody was crying or screaming for help on that back bench where she was being held captive. Strangely, he would ask his victims if they wanted anything to eat, he would actually buy them food to eat. And I thought about this a lot.

I've asked him how on earth he could give them food when he had just raped them and he knew he would kill them. And he just shrugged and said it just seemed like the right thing to do, to buy them something to eat. If I was going to eat, I'd let them eat. But I've also thought that...

Sadly, that may have reassured his victims that, well, he's feeding me. He's not going to kill me. Why would he feed me if he plans on killing me?

So three of Howell's victims suffered their final rape and were strangled in the McDonald's parking lot right next to the ravine in the wooded burial ground where he murdered them. Others were killed in other business establishment parking lots, and one was repeatedly raped behind a bowling alley.

So he always chose public places. Great. Thank you for that detailed explanation. And all of his victims, as far as I understand, were strangled. And here is a real audio recording of Mr. Howell explaining how and why he strangled his victims.

I have a secret. I wore the wrong foundation for years. Then I discovered Il Makiage. Their AI-powered quiz makes it so easy to find a perfect match, customized for your unique skin tone, undertone, and coverage needs. With 600,000 five-star reviews and 50 shades of flawless natural coverage, this foundation is going viral for a reason. And with Try Before You Buy, you can try your full size at home for 14 days. Take the quiz at ilmakiage.com slash quiz.

That's I-L-M-A-K-I-A-G-E dot com slash quiz. This season, Instacart has your back to school. As in, they've got your back to school lunch favorites like snack packs and fresh fruit. And they've got your back to school supplies like backpacks, binders, and pencils. And they've got your back when your kid casually tells you they have a huge school project due tomorrow. Let's face it.

We were all that kid. So first, call your parents to say I'm sorry, and then download the Instacart app to get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes all school year long. Get a $0 delivery fee with your first three orders while supplies last. Minimum $10 in order, additional terms apply. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. As a family man with three kids,

i know first-hand how extremely difficult it is to make time for self-care but it's good to have some things that are non negotiable for some that could be a night out with the boys chugging beers and having a laugh for others it might be an eating night

For me, one non-negotiable activity is researching psychopathic serial killers and making this podcast. Even when we know what makes us happy, it's often near impossible to make time for it. But when you feel like you have no time for yourself, non-negotiables like therapy are more important than ever.

If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Everyone needs someone to talk to, even psychopaths, even your humble host. Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp.

Visit BetterHelp.com slash Serial Killer today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Serial Killer. Did you find in all the other victims it was just a clean-cut strangulation where it happened pretty quickly? Yeah.

Yeah. I didn't want to suffer no more than, you know what I mean? I wasn't out to try and make them suffer, you know? Did any of them other than Kamalini have any last words? Nah. No? Nah. Yeah. I tried to calm them. I told them, you know, as long as you do what I want, you won't get hurt, you know? So I never, like, I tried to keep them calm and that.

In this audio recording we just heard, you mention a victim having said some last words before being murdered by Mr. Howell. What were those last words? Those would be the last words of Melanie Camolini. She begged him for her life and said, please don't kill me. I have children. My children need me.

Right. And the other victims, they simply didn't think he was going to kill them before he started strangling them. Is that so? I believe that's so. Two of his victims initially fought back when the first rape occurred. Nilsa Erismendi fought back

And Howell took a very large, rusty wrench that he kept in his van. I saw a picture of that wrench in the police photos, the crime scene photos. And it is indeed a terrible tool in terms of its weight and size.

And he whacked Nilsa Erasmendi on the side of the head so hard with that tool wrench that it caused her to black out. And he then took her to a parking lot and committed the first rape as she was coming out of that unconscious state. Another victim, Javelin Martinez, fought back.

And he punched her several times and broke her nose. And that was enough for her to submit to all the future rapes. But I think that all of his victims were in such a state of terror regarding being raped again that they, when he did strangle them,

I don't think they had the time or the wherewithal to say anything. The strangulation was very fast. And if you look at pictures of Hal during that time, he had very strong upper body strength from mowing lawns and doing lawn care work. And I think he overcame them.

He had such a rush of adrenaline going through him that it may have made him inhumanly powerful. And so I don't think they had a choice in terms of being able to speak in their final moments. I understand. One thing, though, that we might disagree on is

is, as we heard in the recent Zorio clip, strangulation being described as a pretty quick way to kill. Now, unless the neck is broken, strangulation is not a fast way to kill someone. It might look somewhat more humane than, for example, stabbing someone to death,

but it really isn't. When you strangle someone, their windpipe is constricted. This will cause a huge surge of adrenaline, which will increase the amount of pain you feel, which is quite enormous considering the neck is very sensitive. The brain can survive for several minutes without oxygen, so even though the victim is deprived of air,

It can take quite a long time to die. Also, what often happens in these murders is that the windpipe is broken, causing significant internal bleeding and additional pain. The victim then has open wounds in their throats, combined with the lungs filling with their own blood.

Also, the killer often has to change their grip, which gives the victim a gasp of air, further prolonging the process. I mention this because Mr. Howell states he didn't want his victims to suffer, and I think it's important for my dear listeners to realize that he actually did the opposite. Yes, that's an excellent point. And if there is one inaccuracy I find particularly

in the confessions that William Devon Howe has given to me, which have been very detailed. It's that he consistently understates the level of pain and suffering that he put each of his seven victims, especially the six females, through. He seems to absolutely lack any kind of empathy

for the torment and anguish that these people were experiencing during the 12 hours being held captive in his van. And to me, that just goes to the fact of his not only being a mentally sick man, but also his distorted perception

that these were not human beings. He had a way of relegating these victims to the status of being objects. He completely disassociated his mind

from seeing them as human beings, which I believe is perfectly illustrated in the way in which he sliced off the fingertips and dismantled the jaw of one of those women. To me, it's almost like something a butcher would do to a carcass of an animal. And that was his mindset with his victims. He explains to me

that they were always calm and that they didn't seem to suffer. And yet he would simultaneously tell me that he would verbally berate them and call them terrible names. He would swear at them. He would yell at them. He would put them down. And yet he would tell me that they were calm and he was not making them suffer.

So there's not just the physical suffering, and I think you bring up an excellent point, which I actually, hearing your description about strangulation, I really wish I included some of that in the book. That was excellent, the suffering involved with the strangulation. But the emotional suffering that these women endured in the face of this man's evil,

is just as bad, if not worse, than the physical suffering that they endured in those final hours of their life.

But I did write in the book that he, while I said it was a quick strangulation, he did tell me, I believe it was anywhere between three and seven minutes that it took for the strangulation to be complete. And what he would do at the end is he would put his fingers over their nostrils and

and close their mouth with his hand, and he would hold it there for a good minute to make sure that they had, in fact, stopped breathing. Yes, and seven minutes is quite a long time to die when you think about it. So I'm glad you included that detail in the book, because if you ask someone on death row if they would like their execution to take

one second or seven minutes. I think most will prefer the one second option. Agree?

Agree. And when you mentioned death row, it is interesting to me that William Devon Howell does say that he wants death now. And unfortunately, he can't get death because we don't have a death penalty here in the state of Connecticut. That was taken off the table back in 2015. The Connecticut Supreme Court deemed death.

death as a cruel and punishing way to die and it was therefore unconstitutional. But fair to say that in most cases lethal injection administered to death row inmates is more merciful than any kind of strangulation. Indeed.

So, we've covered Devin Howell's seven known murders. And even though he comes off as sincere in your interviews with him, serial killers are notorious liars. Do you think he murdered more than those seven victims that he killed in those few months?

that Melanie Camolini, his first victim, was truly his first victim in February of 2003, based on the details he gave me about what was going through his mind. It, by all appearances, had the semblance of being, truly being his first entry into being a serial killer.

With respect to whether or not he has any more after his seventh victim, I think it's entirely a decent possibility that he does. And while he has sworn to me that he's always been honest with me, who knows if you can trust a serial killer? I would not be surprised if there were other victims. And I have had several different detectives, several in Connecticut and one in Massachusetts,

right next door to us, contact me wanting to talk to me about whether or not there's a chance that Howell does have other victims. If he does have other victims, fair to say they're all going to fall into his target group of drug addicted prostitutes. And goodness knows that there are so many of these missing persons cases in Connecticut

and everywhere worldwide, but in the vicinity where Howell committed his crimes, that Howell could be linked to. So I know that detectives are still looking into it. And I also think there's a very good possibility that Howell had war victims between late July 2004 and...

February of 2005. From July of 2004 to February 2005, Powell was a free man. So the detectives went down to Virginia to arrest him for the murder of Nilsa Erezmendi.

And they brought him up here to Connecticut, took the 800-mile drive and locked him up on parole violations. But then he was released in July of 2004. And he wasn't actually arrested until May of 2005. So there's a window of time when Howell went to Virginia and North Carolina where he could have...

found other drug-addicted prostitutes in Virginia and North Carolina during that time. And additionally, who knows if he has more in Connecticut. Very interesting. I am sure that we both will keep a close eye on the news cycle regarding any new developments into that case. Now, I'd like to read a short quote from your book,

I am a good guy, Anne, he told me in one of our visits. I'm the guy who holds the door open for you at the dollar store, end quote. I think this is very telling. It reminds me so much of one of those so-called nice guys. One of those guys that insists they're really nice, but actually they are depraved, evil men who secretly hates women.

people such as Elliot Rodger comes to mind. Do you know what I mean? I do know what you mean. Howell has that Southern courtesy that he was raised to act on by his parents, to be courteous, to be polite, and to have a moral code.

And he is very respectful in all of my dealings with him. I know his attorneys certainly agree that that is how he comes across. On the other hand, one wonders what is really going on inside of his mind. There's what he is saying, but what is he thinking? In Howell's case,

I do think that he distinguishes who in his life he will treat with courtesy and respect and who he will kill. And I said in the book that I am not in his target group. 99% of the women out there are not in his target group. And so for the drug addicted prostitutes, he

projects a level of evil and violence that he does not demonstrate to the outside world. Whether or not he hates all women in general is up for debate. I have spoken to some of his past girlfriends, and they have described him as being a pretty decent boyfriend, a loving and affectionate boyfriend,

and never physically harming them. On the other hand, he has had episodes of domestic violence with other girlfriends over the years. He would be verbally abusive with them, especially when he'd been drinking alcohol.

And so it does make you wonder what's going on beneath the surface of this nice guy facade. And interestingly, when I mentioned in the book about him opening the door for me at the dollar store, that that's how he thinks of himself.

It was at the dollar store that William Devon Howell went outside to a trash can and threw away the fingertips and the jawbone of his first victim. He put those human remains in a trash bin outside of a family dollar store. Wow, that is quite fascinating.

So a bit back to what you mentioned about the death penalty being off the table. Can you describe what Mr. Howell can look forward to in an American high security prison for the rest of his life? Howell is suffering greatly in prison right now. And I think many people will probably be pleased to hear that. You know, at least he has a life.

At least he can wake up every morning and have a few things to look forward to, if that's only watching a TV show or eating some chips that he buys at the commissary. His victims don't have that luxury. That said, he is prone to many long bouts of depression. Since I have known him in the last three and a half years,

He has been placed on suicide watch several times. One time in September of 2016, he formed a tourniquet around his neck and tried to strangle himself. It's very hard to strangle yourself in prison, and that's for a reason. They make it very difficult. There are not things around your prison cell that lend themselves to hanging yourself.

And so he wrapped up a sheet from his cot and he tried to strangle himself and did not succeed. As soon as he passed out, his hand let go of the sheet and so it opened up his breathing tube again. So he is that miserable that he wants to die. He does receive rec time with other prisoners twice a day.

That just means you get to sit at a long metal table and talk to another guy. They can go outside in the spring and summer to a small little fenced-in rec yard. It's literally 20 by 20. But he is profoundly lonely.

He knows that he is reviled by everyone. Nobody wants anything to do with him. The only people that visit him are his attorneys. And soon that will end because the case is closed and they're just tying up loose ends right now.

Otherwise, I'm the only one who visits him. So he has nobody from Virginia or Connecticut. He has no former friends or girlfriends. Nobody is writing to him in prison. And his days go by very slowly. He suffers with a lot of insomnia at night and anxiety. And he is a miserable human being.

Quite. I would perhaps dare to say a fitting end to such a heinous criminal career. But I shall not pass judgment. That is not my role. I merely intend to inform and explore. So, moving a bit on to a more pleasant topic. Have you listened to my podcast?

I have. I just listened last night before I went to bed.

I listened while lying in bed trying to go to sleep, which probably wasn't a good idea. I listened to your podcast about Eileen Wuornos and I love that one. I am personally fascinated with her story because it starts off with such a tragic childhood. It's heartbreaking the childhood that woman had that contributed to her becoming a monster.

I don't think it was coincidental that I had some very terrible nightmares last night. So I want to thank you for that, Thomas. I listened to your Smiley Face podcast too about the Smiley Face killer and I equally enjoyed that one. What I like most about your podcast

is that I find that you have a real retro style and it almost reminds me of a little bit like the radio shows that people would listen to in the 30s and 40s.

I find it very substantial, but I love the pace and I've become hooked actually. And I'm not even big on these true crime podcasts, believe it or not. I rarely listen to them, but you can bet I'm subscribing now. I adore your podcast.

Well, thank you so much. That makes me very happy. And I actually do try to emulate the early 30s, 1940s, 1950s American, Americana radio style, much in the form of, what's his name, from the Mercury Theater. Orson Welles, that is the one, Orson Welles, yes.

He is my hero. He is my role model when it comes to the audio style of this podcast. So long as you don't cause a national outcry with people thinking Martians have invaded the world, I think you're good. Don't do that, okay, Thomas? That would create a problem. But...

I'm sure you get this all the time from Americans, but people say that you sound like Count Dracula. You know that, right? Well, yes, I have heard that I do sound a bit like an Eastern European vampire.

So we are coming to an end to this podcast. Thank you so very much for joining me, Ms. Howell. I really appreciate it. Do you have anything you would like to ask or perhaps you have anything you would like to say to my dear listeners before we end the interview? Well, I...

What I would like to say to your listeners is that I want to thank them for their interest in true crime. Because what I find when I tell people that I write true crime is that people fall into two groups. They either are intrigued and say, oh, I love to hear about that stuff too. I'm fascinated and passionate about it.

Or there are the people that sometimes may be judgmental or think that you're doing something that we should not discuss. We should just leave well enough alone. And I understand and respect that some people, you know, I'm not into stories about the wild west. So we all have our preferences in life. But with respect to your listeners, what I,

love about people that are into shows like this and are voracious true crime readers like myself is that I think that there is no shame in exploring human evil. I don't think that you can understand the human condition and have an appreciation for human good and human virtue if

without also exploring the dark side of humanity, if only to have an honest perception of what makes human beings tick. And I think your listeners, like myself, are fascinated with this quest because it's not about delving into things because they are salacious and...

We have no appreciation for the suffering of the victims' families, but rather to try to understand human evil, maybe to prevent it from recurring in the future. But also just to, for me, it's something of a spiritual journey.

to make sense of it. So, I don't know, I'm just really appreciative that you have millions of listeners who get it, who get the importance of doing that and feel that same kind of passion I have to explore human evil. Very well said. Thank you so much for those wise words. And with that, we end this interview.

And so ends the tale of William Devon Howell and my interview with the author Anne K. Howard.

To get people excited about Boost Mobile's new nationwide 5G network, we're offering unlimited talk, text, and data for $25 a month. Forever. Even if you have a baby. Even if your baby has a baby. Even if you grow old and wrinkly and you start repeating yourself. Even if you start repeating yourself. Even if you're on your deathbed and you need to make one last call. Or text. Right, or text. The long lost son you abandoned at birth. You'll still get unlimited talk, text, and data for just $25 a month with Boost Mobile. Forever. Forever.

After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan. If there's one thing that my family and friends know me for, it's being an amazing gift giver. I owe it all to Celebration's Passport from 1-800-Flowers.com, my one-stop shopping site that has amazing gifts for every occasion.

With Celebrations Passport, I get free shipping on thousands of amazing gifts. And the more gifts I give, the more perks and rewards I earn. To learn more and take your gift giving to the next level, visit 1-800-Flowers.com slash ACAST. That's 1-800-Flowers.com slash ACAST. Need new glasses or want a fresh new style? Warby Parker has you covered.

Glasses start at just $95, including anti-reflective, scratch-resistant prescription lenses that block 100% of UV rays. Every frame's designed in-house, with a huge selection of styles for every face shape. And with Warby Parker's free home try-on program, you can order five pairs to try at home for free. Shipping is free both ways, too. Go to warbyparker.com slash covered to try five pairs of frames at home for free. warbyparker.com slash covered.

I have been your host, Thomas Weibach Thun. Doing this podcast is a labor of love, and I couldn't have done it without my loyal listeners. This podcast has been able to bring serial killer stories to life, especially thanks to those of you that support me via Patreon. You can do so at theserialkillerpodcast.com slash donate.

There are especially a few patrons that have stayed loyal for a long time. Maud, Mickey, Sydney, Lexi, Christina, Philip, Jason, Lisbeth, Sid and Meg, Sarah, Tommy, Charlotte, Craig, Megan, Thomas, Linda and Wendy.

Your monthly contributions really help keep this podcast thriving. You have my deepest gratitude. As always, thank you, dear listener, for listening. And feel free to leave a review on your favorite podcast app or website. And please do subscribe to the show if you enjoy it. Thank you. Good night and good luck.