The Zodiac Series - Part 2
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I am your Norwegian host, Thomas Babog Thun. Welcome, dear listener, to the next installment in the Zodiac series. If you haven't listened to part one, please do so now. It's important to know the main facts about the Zodiac Killer before listening to this and later episodes in the series.

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As mentioned in episode 1, this podcast series on the Zodiac Killer will devote time to explore theories relating to who Zodiac really was. There are many, many theories as to who might be the notorious and enigmatic murderer.

But I have to say, one of the most researched and well-documented is the case against Ed Edwards. I have been fortunate enough to be contacted by Paramount Network, as they have an excellent true crime documentary series called It Was Him, The Many Murders of Ed Edwards, that premiered on the 16th of April this year.

I have had the pleasure of watching all six episodes devoted to solving how many murders Ed Edwards actually was responsible for. During the documentary series, we follow a unique individual that is intimately connected to the Edwards case, none other than his grandson, Wayne Wolfe.

He teams up with retired police detective John Cameron in his hunt for the truth. And together, they reveal to the viewer a dark tale of what might be America's most prolific and ingenious serial killer. And now, dear listener, a true treat for you. With me tonight, I have none other than the grandson of Ed Edwards himself, namely Wayne Wolfe.

Welcome so much to the show, Wayne. I appreciate you coming on. Where are you now and how are you? Well, I appreciate you having me on your show. I'm currently sitting in my apartment in California and I suppose it's been an alright day so far. That's good to know. Now, before we get into the juicy meat of this interview, I think it's important for my listeners to know exactly who I am talking to.

So, Wayne, can you tell me a bit about yourself, your background, your relationship with Ed Edwards, and how this documentary series came to be? And please, do feel free to elaborate and take your time. Well, thank you. So, like you said, my name is Wayne Wolf, and I am the grandchild of Edward Wayne Edwards. The way that this series came to be is...

No matter how many times I talk to people about this, it's always not a normal story. It really comes down to, I want to say, the full detailed story here. Everyone does some form of genealogy research at some point in their life, I would think, out of curiosity. For mine, I've always had interesting things in my family as far as I knew.

So I was doing genealogy research for my mother because she wanted to know more about her father because he was a very interesting figure himself. He actually has characters based off of him and his twin brother in both of the Untouchable movies because he was a very key figure with Al Capone and the smuggling of alcohol and diamonds into the country.

So my mother wanted to know more about her past, thinking, well, she most likely would have some kind of extra siblings or cousins or someone because my grandfather, Julius, and his twin brother, Wilbur, they were actually born and raised in a bordello in Chicago. So thinking about that, you would think they probably have a different set of morals or at least one with a little extra in it. While I was doing this, my father called me and asked me how I was doing and asked what I was up to and

I was literally doing the research at the moment, and I thought it was pretty fascinating because it is a very fascinating subject. And my father is a very smart man. But when it comes to some of the capabilities of the Internet, he was not aware of the ability to do research like that without some kind of professional help. And I told him I was doing this research, and he said, oh, man, buddy, you should look into my dad then because I've always wanted to know

you know more about him he didn't want to know more in the sense of like uh like i need to know this or like what kind of a family am i from or anything because my father was raised by his birth mother with the assistance of a wonderful man named clarence wolf chuck wolf grandpa chuck and uh i said okay sweet what is your dad's you know full name and and i thought that was a weird question even asked like i've never even thought to ask what is my grandfather's name because

That's how infrequently the subject was brought up. And he said, well, his name was Edward Wayne Edwards, I think. I said, okay. That is certainly an interesting name. And I'll get back to you, buddy. So I started doing my research and going through different websites that do genealogy. I couldn't really find anything linked to my grandmother with that name. So it was kind of strange. And then all of a sudden I found the marriage certificate filing for Idaho when the

She was married to him, but the name that was on it wasn't Edward Wayne Edwards. It was James Garfield Langley. And I was extremely confused. I'm like, well, obviously there's some kind of mistake here because that's absolutely not the same name. So after that, that didn't happen. I just said, you know what? I'm just going to Google his name. And at least for me, probably because I've looked it up so many times, when you do a web search for the name Edward Wayne Edwards, the very first result is a Wikipedia page

And it says Edward Edwards, serial killer, right at the top. And no joke, minus reaction, because, you know, me and my dad, you know, we're jokers and, you know, we'll mess with each other. Just like, you know, poke fun and all that kind of stuff. I thought, you know what?

I'm going to call my dad. Oh, hey, look, I found your dad. He was a serial killer. Ha ha. You know, and I was like, this is great. He even kind of looks like my dad. And then, oh, awesome. This is even better. He even actually lives in the he was from the same small town and has the exact same birth date and year. And oh, my God, it just it hit me.

And I didn't know what to think because it's like I was playing a prank on myself. Like I had to trick myself. And because that's not something that you discover. That's not something that anyone really discovers. I mean, you could find some interesting stuff out, but just the situation of stumbling upon the listing for my grandfather's

you know, life on Wikipedia. And when I tell people about my grandfather being a serial killer, I can kind of prepare him for it. But I wasn't prepared for that. And I couldn't just call my dad and be like, hey, so I think your dad was a serial killer, but let me call you back. You know, it's not quite something that's going to, I just didn't feel right doing that. So I'm looking around this page and I see at this point,

And discovering this, the Edward Edwards Wikipedia page did not have many details. There's a listing for a book. And it was extremely confusing to see one listing under the reference for something like this. And see, it's me, Edward Wayne Edwards, the serial killer you never heard of. And I immediately...

I said, okay, if I'm going to find out any details or anything to really confirm that Ed Edwards was my grandfather, I suppose the man who wrote the book on him would probably have an answer for me on that. And I went to the author's website, it's often named John Cameron, who is a retired detective from Great Falls, Montana. And it was a very conspiratorial book. I saw everything on the website and

As I would assume a lot of people do, there's some dismissive thoughts of like, okay, well, this is a lot of names. This is a lot of big names in here. So, I mean, something can't quite add up. So I tracked down his contact information because I'm a big nerd. I tracked it down and…

I figured right before I called him, I thought, okay, well, wait a minute. If I could track down his info, you know, someone else probably can. Some like internet sleuths, people that have theories on, you know, Ed. And he probably has a lot of messages for people, you know, and mine would probably be a very weird one to leave. So I thought I'm just going to leave a nice, short, sweet message. So I said, hi, Mr. Cameron, this is Wayne Wolf. And I believe that Ed Edwards may have been my grandfather. So if you could please call me back. And I left him my number. That was it.

I didn't put anything else in the message or anything and then this went back about my business and then the next day I had a missed phone call while I was having lunch and it was from Mr. John Cameron. And the voicemail is something that, it's sort of like the situation of like, oh, I was by myself when I discovered my grandfather's a serial killer. I didn't really have anything to, I just wanted to be a sounding board.

And then he left me this voicemail. This is highway and Wolf. I know exactly who you are because interviewed your grandmother, Jeanette from my book. And she requested that either I don't reach out to you or your father, but now that I know, you know, I can call him back. And so I'm just finishing a bologna sandwich and listening to this voicemail of a, that double confirmation that that Edwards is my grandfather. Cause I never said anything about anything. I didn't give any details on my grandmother. I didn't say, you know, Jeanette,

And that's not a name you can just pick out of the air. At that point, I'm just sitting by myself with, I guess, a variation of a Wikipedia page with another verification that it was my grandfather. And I called John Cameron back. We spoke, and he started to break out these details for me on Ed. And, you know, it's heartbreaking to hear that kind of thing. I don't think anyone, at least anyone that is –

what normal would like to have a grandfather like this. I mean, who would like to be in a position like this? And there are theories of John's that I didn't quite understand or really believe. I was thinking about the victims of Ed, you know, the people that he was convicted for.

And I felt so terrible because I would see online that people would, they would really, I don't want to say poke fun, but they wouldn't take Ed seriously as a killer. And not as a respect that he deserves, but as a respect for the people that he killed and their families. You know, I didn't want those people to really fall into this

you know obscure mad magazine of a character that ed was and and just be a side note and i mean there were people that he hurt and he destroyed lives and they deserve respect so my initial thought was i would like to try to make something that could one document this because i recognized how rare of a situation this was i mean it's not every day that someone finds this kind of thing out and you know i'm a filmmaker i mean that's why i live in california and

I just had to document it. And two, if I had the chance to have the resources to go through and research some of this stuff, you know, with the help of a film company like Viacom and Paramount Network, then it would give me the chance to shoot down some of the, at least some of them. So that way people could start to see, okay, well, wow, this is actually really serious. This is a serious, sick man film.

And these poor people were hurt by this man. And, you know, I just wanted to sort of reframe it for people or for people. And, you know, as you know, because you've seen all six episodes of the show, we dug into this life, this Forrest Gumpian life this man had, ranging from being in jail at the age of 17 and being the leader of a prison gang with Charles Manson at the age of 12, to hanging out with Jimmy Hoffa and

Anthony Provenzano. There's so many things about this. This scream. This isn't real. There's so many things about this where I have to state, and we have paperwork on this, and look at this. You have to show people these pieces of evidence of how strange of a life this man was. It's very interesting. Sorry to ramble, but I understand that it's not a normal situation. I no longer have a normal life.

Thank you so much for that detailed introduction to your background and how this excellent documentary series came to be. You're welcome. When I watched the first episode, I was very interested to see the scene where you follow John Cameron down into his cellar and seeing his collection of papers and artifacts connected to Ed Edwards.

It was very much like from a movie where the protagonist meets some conspiracy genius that has a corkboard filled with papers with string connecting them. So I have to ask you, you told me about your phone call with John Cameron, but can you tell me about your first meeting with him? Yeah. So my first meeting with John Cameron is, it's something that would be

i don't know uh think of it as like a meeting a long lost relative just because i i hear about this man and that he i speak to him on the phone and and it's like discovering you have this long list fan member and then you get to finally meet him you don't know what to say because he knows so much about you you know in this situation john cameron you know he's a very dedicated private citizen for you know researching this kind of thing now and

And he was excited. He was really excited to meet me. And I could understand that. But it was overwhelming, you know, because I want to say with someone like John, who has had so many years and blood, sweat, and tears into the investigation of Ed Edwards, to have any kind of break or any kind of change in the normal form, it's going to be exciting. So I was a little off-put by how...

i don't want to say smiley but just how excited he was to to um have me near him and he straight out told me he's like you know wayne having you here is something that could change things for me because you know you can give me a different insight into his mind and you can give me different access into the family you know which is so true but it was just it was a really interesting experience meeting john because

Meeting anyone under these circumstances, I suppose, is going to be a strange thing. Definitely very strange, but also very fruitful. But a bit of a side note, have you listened to my podcast? You know, funny enough, I've not really been a big true crime podcast person. I've never really been a big true crime person in general. I mean, I find some of it fascinating, but I have not because...

I don't want to have any... I thought it'd be fun to have a surprise going into this. I didn't want to prepare myself for any special hook or interesting thing you have with yours. So I thought it'd be fun to have a nice natural interview. That's perfectly fine. Because I don't ask out of...

self-aggrandizing or anything like that. I ask because if you had listened to my podcast, you would probably know that usually I spend a significant amount of time in my exposés on the serial killers that I investigate. I spend a lot of time developing their background, who they were as children and as youths. So

Because a lot of times the behavior serial killers show as adults stem from their childhood and adolescent years. So before we continue exploring how Ed Edwards might be the Zodiac Killer, can you describe what you know about your grandfather's childhood and youth? Yeah, when it comes to my grandfather's childhood...

I suppose I would say I know what he's wanted people to know, because what I understand is how he has described things as in his own book. And we didn't have a lot of resources outside of that. So what I know from his youth is that he was born in Akron, Ohio, and his mom is Lillian Myers.

She died of a gunshot wound to her stomach, septicemia, I believe. And then from that, after she died, Ed's family at the time, like, you know, cousins, aunts, you know, he had family. And he was also, he was born Charles Myers. And they dropped him into an orphanage. But in the process, though, they did change his name. And something that was very strange to me was the fact, you know, this was the late 1930s.

And back then, the idea of having an extra set of hands to work, you know, even if it's a five, six year old, that's someone that could help around the house, someone that could help keep people alive. I mean, this is a very fragile time in our country. But instead of taking in this poor boy, they change his name and they drop him into an orphanage. Parmedale. That's the name of the Parmedale Catholic Orphanage.

And so I wondered who would do that? Why would you do this to this poor child, especially family? And my thought of it is, I think maybe Ed witnessed his mother's death or with the gunshot wound, I believe it was a rifle to her stomach. Maybe she didn't, she was so sick in her mind because, you know, of this poor woman raising a child, a bastard, you know, in the late thirties, that's,

It's not necessarily something that you want to have in our country at that time, or I guess it was at any time. But then, particularly, it was very taboo. So obviously, there's some mental health issues there with her decision to do this. And who knows? Maybe he helped her, or maybe he's the one that pulled the trigger. I mean, it's terrible as it's to say, but I thought, what else would you do with a five, six-year-old boy who...

is so damaged that you know i mean there is no really mental health protection for children you know so or what would you do with a five or six year old murderer you know you would you change his name and you drop in somewhere like parma dale and forget he existed and uh from that point he was raised in parma down until believe around the age of 12 on and off moving between uh with him and parma there and with uh his aunt which is where

That would be like his second mother, I believe, at some point. Or at least the thought of it. Mary Ethel Edwards. But at the age of 12, he decided just to hit the bricks. And he started his life with crime. In his own words, he's going to become the greatest criminal to ever live. And I guess from there, that's probably where I would no longer consider him a child. Right. You mentioned in your...

introduction that ed edwards was on a chain gang with manson can you elaborate on that yeah i believe that's one of the details that didn't get too uh touched upon in the show because i mean there's so much like as you should know from watching it there's so many things we'd cram in to this uh the medium we had but uh

My grandfather, in 1952, he was in Chillicothe, Ohio, Federal Reformatory for Boys, which is essentially a federalized juvenile home. Those don't really exist, federalized ones at least, in the United States of America anymore. It was not a very large institution, but they would certainly have a hierarchy, and it wouldn't generally by age, where the children that are in here

They would have their own little, like, say if there's four different parts of it here, then there'd be four gangs because they'd have their own prison section. And I'm in charge here because I'm the oldest boy. I'm the biggest boy. And my grandfather was a stocking man. And this is when he was 17. And I thought it very interesting that this is what happens that at that time also,

I believe even actually for the same crime for transporting a vehicle, stolen vehicle across state lines, which is why they went to a federalized place. It was a 12 year old Charles Manson. And I immediately thought that is such a weird, weird coincidence that we would have someone such as my grandfather, as well as someone such as Charles Manson. And you can't help but wonder the full history between them, you know, like his family,

you know he would be a childhood friend to charlie and he'd be the age of an older brother or mentor and your imagination can get taken away i can go it can get away from you in situations like this because i'm just thinking about the impact on a scale of our history that my grandfather has in a small way as well as you know charles manson

Indeed, Charles Manson was a very, very charismatic man and always attracted followers and easily made friends and allies during his whole life. Because he had a silver tongue, well, his whole being was very attractive to a lot of people. So the fact that your grandfather knew and maybe even...

was on very close terms with Manson. Certainly might have had implications on his later life, but as you say, details like that is a very good way to fall down into the rabbit hole. Yeah, it's certainly something that could...

get away with you but i knew i do know one thing is generally people such as my grandfather and manson they have very similar personalities they are manipulative and they are they're sweet talkers and they are unknowingly masters of mirroring someone's emotion because they didn't they would look at someone and have an experience and

They're chameleons, and you can't help but think that, especially someone like Charles Manson, who was the same way, personalities tend to gravitate to each other. You can't help but think there's the weird kids who are just like, I'm committing crimes because I'm a bad boy, or whatever reason. But then there are people like Ed and Charlie, and you can't help but think that they would see each other and give each other a nod, you know?

It's weird. The way I thought about it with that imagination running away with your thing is what if they did become lifelong friends and

So I'm imagining a situation where it's the late 60s and my grandfather's traveling through and moving to California and he decides to go get lunch, to catch up with his old friend Charlie. And I wonder if it would be a lunch where it's Ed sitting there across from Charles Manson and Charles is like, "Hey, so what are you up to these days?" And Ed's like, "I want to think about writing a book." He's like, "Oh, interesting. What about you?" He's like, "I want to think about writing some music. I might be working with the Beach Boys. Oh, interesting."

or if it's like sitting around having coffee and laughing with each other over the wall they've pulled over the eyes of so many people. It's a weird thought and it's a weird feeling that I would hope doesn't happen actually in real life. It's the stuff that movies are made of, I think. The truth is definitely stranger than fiction. It's a weird thing to be a living example of that. Indeed.

In the documentary, it's often implied that Ed Edwards was very intelligent. Do you agree with this? And if so, what do you base it on? Well, when it comes to the intelligence of Ed Edwards, I do want to say that is something that I would hope should be undeniable because look what he got away with for so long.

there's the thing is dumb look, you know, there's like a Mr. Magoo type look, you know, where it is sort of blindly pushing through things. But then there's someone who is a boy who was, uh, inconsistently raised in an orphanage, you know, in the thirties with a third graders education. And look what he did with his life. I mean, he, he certainly had to have been, uh, of a higher intelligence or at least a higher IQ. And, uh,

I'm trying to think exactly. I want to say it was one, I think, according to the FBI report, or the FBI Most Wanted poster, which is interesting. I actually came across it recently. It was on eBay. And I could send you this photo if you'd like. It's this original, so wanted by the FBI, interstate flight robbery. Edward Wayne Edwards is what it says across the top. And

And the description is where it would give away his IQ, I believe. It's the description that then went to circulation in newspapers when they were trying to find him. And I do believe it said he had an IQ of 137 or 134 or somewhere in there. I don't know if that was a self-claimed number or if that's something that the FBI had more information on. But he certainly was a more intelligent man in his

Unfortunately, he had the right combination, or I should say the wrong combination of nature and nurture. I mean, his genetics, his higher intelligence and his charisma then mixed in with the situation of the unfortunate upbringing. And one extra thing I might add when it comes to the description that was out to the public when they were looking for him, when he was on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list,

Certain things, you know, I've been learning a lot of details about my family's history through just the research of the show. And one of the things I learned is I found the description that I mentioned before on the poster that was sent out to everyone. And they talk about scars and marks, you know, things to where people can hide those, like tattoos. And for the tattoo listings on everything here, one of them is...

it says a left hand scar inner side of left wrist scar upper left area scar right knee tattoos on right upper right wrist jeanette and when i read that that this is my grandmother's name it just kind of further broke my heart because i didn't know anyone in my family to have a tattoo for my grandmother before and you know here's someone that's narcissistic and evil manipulative is my my grandfather here and he has her name tattooed on his right wrist

So that was a jarring thing. One of those, it's like, oh yeah, that's right. This is a real moment, you know, when I'm going through researching. Incredible. And 134 in IQ is almost genius level. So at least highly advanced intelligence. I wouldn't be surprised if the federal institution did an IQ test on him. It's quite common to

state institutions back then to do IQ tests of their subject. Yeah, I do believe when it comes to the institutions, I think he did actually have a psychological breakdown that he included in his book, Metamorphosis of Criminal, from when he was 12 at Parmedale, where they diagnosed him with sadomasochism. I can't remember if they had an IQ listing in there, but

I imagine the 1930s, they probably didn't have at least a form of an IQ test that we still utilize that has the same measure. But yeah, I mean, that is certainly almost genius though. Now, for my dear listeners, I think I need to expand a bit on what prompted the focus on Ed Edwards as a Zodiac suspect. Edwards was a convicted serial killer.

and he admitted to and was convicted of five murders. The five killings Edwards confessed to were as follows. The double murder of Billy Lavaco and Judy Straub in Ohio in 1977. Double murder of Tim Hack and Kelly Drew, Wisconsin, in 1980. And finally, the 1996 murder of his adopted son, Danny.

Danny Law Gluckton was a 25-year-old U.S. Army soldier with a history of drifting. In 1995, Edwards and his wife took Danny in and legally adopted him. Danny subsequently changed his name to Danny Boy Edwards. Danny wrote in his petition, I have been living with Mr. and Mrs. Edwards for over a year, and I have been supported by them.

I call them mom and dad. They treat me like a son. Therefore, I would like to take their surname. In May, five months after changing his name, Danny disappeared. His remains were discovered in April of 1997, less than a mile from the Edwards home. He'd been shot twice in the face and buried in a shallow grave. This summer, Instacart presents famous summer flavors coming to your front door.

or pool or hotel. Your grocery delivery has arrived, sir. That was faster than room service. No violins in the lobby. Oh, seriously? Anyway, sit back, relax, and get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes. Starring your favorite snacks, drinks, and more. Download Instacart for free delivery on your first three orders. Rated H for hungry audiences. Offer valid for a limited time. Minimum $10 per order. Excludes restaurants. Additional terms and fees apply. Hey,

Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently, I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. They said yes. And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those onerous two-year contracts, they said, what the f*** are you talking about, you insane Hollywood a**hole?

So to recap, we're cutting the price of Mint Unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. $45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees extra. Speeds lower above 40 gigabytes in details. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. As a family man with three kids, I know firsthand how extremely difficult it is to make time for self-care.

But it's good to have some things that are non-negotiable. For some, that could be a night out with the boys, chugging beers and having a laugh. For others, it might be an eating night. For me, one non-negotiable activity is researching psychopathic serial killers and making this podcast. Even when we know what makes us happy, it's often near impossible to make time for it.

But when you feel like you have no time for yourself, non-negotiables like therapy are more important than ever. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Everyone needs someone to talk to, even psychopaths, even your humble host.

Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash serialkiller today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash serialkiller. 2009, 29 years after the Wisconsin double murder,

Cold case detectives were able to match Edwards' DNA to semen found on Kelly Drew's clothing. They arrested Edwards at his home in Kentucky and extradited him to Wisconsin. He confessed to shooting Billy Lavaco and Judy Straub and to killing Danny in order to profit from a $250,000 life insurance policy. Edwards said in a taped interview,

I did it. It didn't bother me and I moved on. That's all. That's all I killed. This last statement, of course, is in direct conflict to what John Cameron says. Cameron claims to have records, pictures of him from all over the country. Cameron also points to Edwards' book that documents everywhere he was until 1972. He claims that everywhere he wrote about in the book, Edwards killed.

set people up. Edwards wasn't apprehended until 2009. Cameron thinks Edwards killed every moment of his life. So Wayne, what do you think of Cameron's conclusions regarding Edwards? Well, I think when it comes to John Cameron's conclusions, John is certainly a very, very talented detective. But not everyone is right about everything. There are certainly some of the theories of John that

They are a little fantastic, a little hard to believe. And with proper looking into Ed, with not looking at the cover and just reading the book, it's something that deserves the attention. It's something that does make sense for a few of the things, but I believe with just like any other theory, not all the details are going to be right.

And I'm not based on off of the skills or intelligence of John. I'm based on off of the skills and intelligence of Ed. He was a con man. He was a professional con man. Posed as many things throughout his life. And I can certainly see him conning John, trying to lead him on because they wrote each other for over a year. And that's why I refer to John as one of Ed's last victims. But

We're not going to know the whole truth in the situation with Ed because that's something that Ed controlled. And just like how he stopped talking after he confessed to enough murders to qualify himself for the death penalty. I mean, the man didn't want to live his life in prison the rest of his life, you know. That's why he wrote authorities reaching out to district attorneys in different states and one of them saying, you're going to want to put a needle in my arm once you hear what I have to say.

I mean, he wouldn't feel bad. He wasn't trying to make amends by, "Oh, well, I might as well confess to these murders so that way I can get my death penalty and get sent where I need to go." It was his own sick and twisted euthanasia. I mean, it was his way of controlling things because once he confessed to enough murders to qualify himself, he stopped talking because any extra one he would say, it would stay as execution. It would give him time to think and rest and rot in prison.

And I have to add in something that, thank you for reading Danny's petition. I didn't know that existed. And that was really touching to, because the case of Danny is something that's very, very close to me because he was essentially my foster. He's essentially like a step uncle to me, you know, and, and it completely breaks my heart to think that Ed was that cold blooded and calculated that he would,

do this and and something that was very painful at least for my father to hear is uh we had found out like through a letter that was sent to Ed that we got our hands on through John that uh Ed actually did try looking for my father and uh in the letter that was to him it's like hey we're sorry Mr Edwards we could not find records of uh Edward Wayne Edwards Jr because my

My grandmother, when she remarried, she had his name changed and the birth certificate amended with Charles, you know, Clarence Wolfe. And so my father was then Wayne Wolfe. In 1995, he had this letter saying, we're sorry, Mr. Edwards, we could not find your son, Edward Wayne Edwards Jr. And then in 1996, you know, he kills Danny Boy. And I couldn't help but think if he was trying to find my father, you know, it's a sort of

finally stick it to my grandma, like, you know, fulfill a promise he made about hurting my dad and gave up and said, okay, well, I guess I'll just have to fill in the blank and adopt this poor child, Danny Glockner. And that's the thing that breaks my heart with Danny is he was, he never had love. He never had family the way that he was shown with, with Kay and Ed and with Kay, it probably certainly was very legitimate because Kay was a victim of Ed's as well. But with Ed, it was legitimate. It was legitimate.

legitimately a terrible situation because he brought this kid into his life so we can kill him and as a result of not having a rest you know not having justice done to him or done for him it says on this tombstone danny boy edwards and it's terrible to think that so many years had gone by with this poor boy buried in a cemetery with no one he knows no family with the name of the man who killed him as a stamp on the tombstone above it broke my heart actually

And it's still the one thing that to this day, like, like I have a hard time seeing the, like, like happy photos of people he killed. And then I have a hard time seeing a photo of Danny with the American flag behind him. And looking at his little tiny headstone with no details on it, not even a date or a specific date, just a range of when he may have died. It says Danny boy Edwards on his tombstone. In fact, one thing that I would love to add, and I'm actually,

I started GoFundMe to get Danny a new headstone. A Danny headstone that says Daniel Law Glockner. The name that he was born with, not the name that he was plotted to destroy him. So I would appreciate it if people did look for that GoFundMe just so we can get Danny a headstone. Because it's something that's the least, it's literally the least I could do for the poor boy. Do you have the address for that GoFundMe?

Yeah, it's GoFundMe.com slash GoFundDanny. That's D-A-N-N-I-E. It's also on my Twitter as well. Well, dear listeners, you know what to do. Go to the GoFundMe you just heard about and donate. John Cameron claims with absolute certainty that Edwards is the Zodiac Killer. After watching the documentary series, I gotta say I am not completely sold on that.

But I do think it's very fascinating and awesome. Edwards was in his mid-thirties, in the late 1960s, and physically somewhat similar to the Phantom drawing, based on two independent witness descriptions. He is a known serial killer, so we know he's very much capable of murder, and he had a penchant for games, haunting authorities.

For example, the book he wrote is apparently full of implications and window, but few real additions and parts. So, Wayne, do you think Ed Edwards was the Zodiac Killer? I do. Why? Well, I look at a few things. I told myself when I did this show, I would look at just the facts because that's something that I can't deny, the facts. And

You look at the case of, okay, I'll say, look at it like this. My grandfather's in town in Great Falls, Montana in 55 for a very short time. That's when a couple gets shot, a couple in Lover's Lane. He goes into prison for armed robbery. When he gets out of prison from Deer Lodge Prison, he's then in Oregon, paroled to Portland, and another couple gets killed on Lover's Lane. Except this time, this couple dies.

the girl she was said from uh from statements from her friends to have been seeing a recently released convict behind the back back of her boyfriend and uh my grandfather he's at the scene of the crime he spotted at the scene of the crime the bullet hole in his arm and there's a bullet hole in the windshield of the car but they're the victims they weren't shot they were stabbed which means that there was a tussle of some kind and when ed was picked up they asked him hey um what's wrong with your arm there and uh

believe in his words he said something along the lines of he got a tussle with an axe and uh they're gonna process him up you know on monday and over the weekend someone called in pretend to be ed's parole officer and uh he walked out of the jail he just walked right on out and something i must add in because i know we didn't have many details about that in the episode the other person that ed was with he was uh in the navy his name is wayne budd

B-U-D-D, I think it was, or Buddy, Wayne Buddy. And Wayne Buddy was also sought for questioning with, you know, this couple that were killed, and he actually ended up dead himself. He had, apparently, had committed suicide along the Oregon coast in a very small town in between Portland, Oregon and Astoria, Oregon, which, interestingly enough, I've actually lived in Astoria, Oregon, and so just a small world with that. But, uh,

so this he gets killed as well so then at that point ed goes back into jail you know on and off multiple times and then lands in california and then a couple gets killed on lover's land and then a couple gets attacked by lake but the boyfriend survives and boyfriend he he mentions that the zodiac said that he had been in deer lodge prison which is to recap prison that was in now at this point

The Zodiac has been sending letters and all this stuff. Then all of a sudden, a cab driver gets murdered in San Francisco. And the cab driver was murdered by the Zodiac because the Zodiac had taken a piece of cloth from his shirt and mailed it to the press saying, hey guys, guess who's in town? And something that I definitely thought was very interesting. Called one of those really weird coincidences that we talked about earlier, but it just so happened, my grandfather, he was

in California at the time, and he was staying with his family. And Paul Drexler, I'm sorry, Paul Drexler, Paul Stein, we know where he picked up the Zodiac from because he wrote in his log. And then obviously we know where he died because that's where they found the cab and they heard the gunshot. So Paul Stein, he picked up the Zodiac from the bar that my grandfather's aunt and cousin worked at. And it's lefty O'Doul's. And I thought, that has got to be

the weirdest coincidence, if not a coincidence, than anything because Ed was a con man. He didn't have a lot of money. And if he wanted to hang out with people, especially at a bar that his family works at because that's where he gets free drinks. And then Paul Stein, he was killed right near where Ed was living with his aunt and cousin in Presidio Heights. He lived in the area. So, now recapping, Zodiac was in the same prison

Edward Edwards has 13 characters, which would match up with the My Name Is letter, in the sense that it's the same amount of characters. Ed was convicted for the same murders as the Zodiac, and to add into that, he was suspected of the same murders before the Zodiac even happened, by 10 years. And he just happens to have family that works at this bar. And to me, that was just a lot of almost smoking guns and

When you have enough of these repeated incidents like that, it's no longer just circumstantial. It could be considered something that's part of a scientific method of discovering something. It's like a spider web. Another interesting thing I recently thought about was I was talking with John Cameron recently about Zodiac stuff. I noticed if you look at the sketch of what the kids said the Zodiac looked like,

Right. See the pair of glasses that's on the Zodiac's face. I was wondering if when Paul Stein, when he was killed, if they recovered his glasses, because in this photo, this cab driver photo, he had a very, very specific style of frames. And if you look at the sketch of the Zodiac that's described by the children and by the officers, looks like he's wearing Paul Stein's glasses.

And all I can imagine with that is when, when he pulls the trigger and pops Paul and he goes in the front, he picks up Paul's glasses and puts them on his face because that's, you know, there's an extra piece of disguise for getting away. And then I was looking at a photo of my grandfather from 1970 with his family in California there. And I thought, well, you know what, if he's someone who just pick up a pair of glasses, you know, that's obviously like a go-to disguise for him because it's really fast one and an easy one. And, uh,

In the photo, his family, his uncle or his step-uncle was in front of him that he has his arm on. He has identical style frame glasses from the sketch as described by the survivor of the stabbing for the side of the lake. And I thought, you know, this is probably someone that he probably picked up his uncle's glasses, you know, if that was him, that is the case. But I just thought it was very fascinating. So I look at all that and I can't help but think that there's some...

connection with that. And it wasn't just me that thinks that he's the Zodiac. It wasn't even my theory in the first place. It is a shared theory, I want to say. Like, funny enough, I mean, obviously you probably follow with what's happening with the Golden State Killer. Yeah? Yes. I don't know if you know this, but Michelle McNamara, I hope I say her name right. I'm always so bad with pronunciation. When they announced that they had found the

the golden state killer twitter exploded because people out of respect for michelle they were sending off all of these different um things and one of them specifically was uh her letter to the open letter to the golden state killer which you may have heard uh or read or seen patton oswald read on uh seth meyers but uh it's one of the last things she wrote there was a letter to uh golden state killer for eventually when he's gonna be found and

She actually mentions my grandfather in that. So it was just really weird to see my grandfather's name popping up in a different sense. This is another killer. And with that, I did some research on Michelle and something I couldn't find just like Google, but I actually found it in her, her website. She had a blog posting on her website, true crime diary.com from 8, 7, 0 9.

Which would be right after, right after, like less than a month after my grandfather was arrested originally in 2009. And there was a little, it was details on Ed talking about the crimes and she couldn't help but notice and talk about the similarities of her, of him with the Zodiac Killer.

So I was sort of like taken aback that less than a month after my grandfather was arrested for this, you know, she has this posting on her site where she's talking about the Zodiac killer and like comparing the two because the victim styles. And something that she also mentions in that posting that the very end is Ed's DNA should be tested against the Zodiacs. And it's so weird that after her death, she contributed so heavily to capture the Golden State killer.

you know, that would happen. And then just weeks later, the, for the police department, they're releasing the DNA. They think they have the postage stamps, you know? So is it going to match with my grandfather? I don't know. I know my grandfather, he definitely, he dictated a lot like decay. And I would imagine just like someone who's working in an office, his secretary, they would do that kind of thing. So I don't know if I would match with it, but maybe his other kids would with K, but.

I just wanted to add that extra detail in there. I thought it was fascinating that it's not just John's theory or my April's theory that he could have been the Zodiac. It's a shared theory with multiple people, including historians from San Francisco who definitely put my grandfather in the top five in the show. You see, most certainly the most likely of the bunch of names.

who, funny enough, was listed in the article that Sacramento Bee just did about how the DNA of the Zodiac should be utilized in the same method that was used by the Golden State Killer. So, yeah, it's a shared theory that someone who caught the original Night Stalker may have a shared theory with the Zodiac Killer. Interesting. Very much so. You pose a convincing case for Ed Edwards as the Zodiac Killer.

So, just to get it out of the way, what, if any, other of the more famous killings presented in the documentary, and other than the five murders he confessed to and the Zodiac case, do you think Edwards is responsible for? Well, interesting segue into that. It's an end cap to the Zodiac. Before the Zodiac killings happened, there was some murders that happened called the

And at good heart. I remember them from the show we detailed. But what I found interesting with that and sort of correlates with my grandfather's training and his intelligence. So one of the things that we know for a fact happened is, you know, looking at paperwork, we have there's a lawsuit against my grandfather for a false testimony that he provided. And on that piece of paper, the false testimony with the court document that lists him as a witness for the FBI.

because he provided false testimony against somebody who then they found had an ironclad alibi. So instead of trying him for those murders, what happened, it was, I believe, a family of three or four that died in a house fire. And he was a witness to it, and he was speaking against somebody. And he had enough details that showed that he had been there and seen something.

But afterwards, they found out that it was actually the Arnclad alibi, so he just gets sued, which I thought was interesting. They didn't try to convict him. But anyway, it says in the paperwork that he was a witness for the FBI. So my grandfather was a certified informant with the FBI. And now going into the Goodhart murders that this mentions, that would be right after my grandfather got out of this here. I believe he was transferred to Lewisburg Federal Penitentiary and paroled in 1967.

uh near the end of 67 and then a few months later in 1968 a family of six in good heart michigan were killed in their cottage by lake michigan and uh it was gruesome it was terrible and uh the husband the father was said to have been working with a con man of some sorts and someone sent in something to the newspaper there saying they would give more details if they was to run an ad in the newspaper

And this was in June of 68. And the ad had a very interesting message. It looked like a coded message or something you'd see, like maybe someone communicating with someone else in the FBI or something, which could just be gibberish, but you never know with that. But the thing about that message is it's signed Zodius. Not Zodiac, but Zodius. And this found it weird that

That would be happening. That murder would be listed as, or that would be signed to the Zodiacs. And then very shortly afterwards in California, where my grandfather then moved to, the Zodiac killings would start. So this is the end cap to the Zodiac stuff there. The other murders I believe that Ed, I think, did, obviously these are just my opinions. I do believe he did have something to do with at least some of the murders for the Atlantic Shroud killings, or as some would refer to it, the Atlanta Nightmare.

And even the police themselves said that, I believe it was the statement, they said Wayne Williams didn't, you don't think he killed all these people. But he was just sort of getting railroaded with all that. But my grandfather at the time, you know, he was in the area. And he did have in his possession a Marietta, Georgia police uniform because I was recovered when he burned a house down, when his house burned down. He had stolen it from his friend who was the chief of police in Atlanta, which there's a photo of him with him.

And he did own a van as well. And there's only one other thought suspect in the case against William Williams for the Atlanta child killings. And it was said to be a white man, a white male, very square cut, you know, looking and it was, and he had a van, a green van. And Ed had a green van because that is what he details as transporting the bodies of Hack and Drew in September of 1980. I'm sorry, in August of 1980. So,

I certainly believe that he has something to do with the Atlantic child kings as well. Jimmy Hoffa, you know, who knows what that? Yeah. It's very interesting that he just happened to be, you know, good friends and cellmates with Jimmy Hoffa and, or Anthony Provenzano. But I also find it interesting that the key witness to a, they fight between Jimmy Hoffa and Tony Provenzano, whereas supposedly Tony says, Hey, you know, you're going to get it someday. And I'm going to be the person that gives it to you to Hoffa.

was my grandfather. He's listed in a half a book. He's interviewed in Play My Magazine about this. And with that, I thought that was really interesting. So we're going to trust the word of an absolutely insane, narcissistic, near IQ level serial killer that he said that. You can't really trust anything he says. That's why I don't trust his own book, Metamorphosis of a Criminal. When it comes to Jean Benet, I don't think he killed Jean Benet. And as you can see in our show,

my grandfather had an alibi. Yes, full validity of the alibi, we don't know because I mean, I do believe it came from one of my uncles that refused to be on the show and we can't even say his name with it. And there's definitely more to that. I don't know. But when it comes to Lacey Peterson, I don't think he killed Lacey Peterson. I think that would be one of the situations where with the theories, it's easy to try to apply an algorithm to other situations that John was doing. You know, he's applying the

the methodology of ed to other situations and i just don't see a fitting and that's where you know you can see the conflict between me and john on the show is it's easy to try to ignore something that could be evidence against your case you know and i felt like that was happening a little bit which told me that there's blinders put up because i mean here we were trying to get some answers for for this and we were starting to find some and i could see john certainly putting those blinders up and

you know i do hope that you know in the long run we're gonna have some results but i do also hope that he doesn't find you know this because this isn't really happening yet obviously but i do hope that with an answer to one of these murders if it is true that did kill him you know one of these people or one of these situations here i hope that john doesn't look at that as justification for every other theory and say okay well i guess i guess he did kill all these other people then you know i just hope that doesn't happen but um

Anyway, when it comes to Teresa Halbach in Wisconsin, it's very interesting. I don't necessarily, I can't say, I don't think, that one I'm still on the fence on because we couldn't get him in an alibi. We couldn't also disprove the scenario, but it's also the similarities are going to eerie because thinking about it is, as John's words, to look through the eyes of the Zodiac killer. It's Teresa Halbach with her murder.

Here's someone who was killed by Stephen Avery, whose name is all over the place. And we do know, and I'm still trying to find paperwork on this to verify this, but according to one of my aunts or uncles, that at the time, Ed did live in the area of Teresa Hallbeck and Stephen Avery. And I would imagine if it was the Zodiac, if he was the Zodiac officially, here's a man that's obsessed with Zodiac.

Paul Avery, you know, he would write with the journalists as played by Robert Downey Jr. and the Zodiac movie. Right now, with that, if you were someone that was that was the Zodiac and you were in this area and you see the name Avery everywhere because, you know, it's a small area and every auto salvage is a big company out there and.

All of a sudden, Stephen Avery's everywhere. All of the news because he was suing the state and it was like the most talked about thing in the state for quite a while. I could certainly see that being a taunt to the name Avery popping up in a newspaper multiple times for someone like my grandfather. Now, on top of that, anything with the Zodiac, with the way he would kill or at least the way he would like to talk about. And Teresa Hallback, she was stabbed and she was tied up and she was shot. Unfortunately, she went and then her remains were destroyed via fire. So, yeah.

You could call it the Zodiac Killer and took an interest in Stephen Avery as a disassociation and as a correlation with Paul Avery and setting him up because he knew it would be easy because the police hated him. And he killed Teresa Hallback by rope, by fire, by knife, and by gun, and she went missing on Halloween. That certainly sounds like the Zodiac to me. Now, yes, that is just looking at the evidence in a certain way, but...

that's sometimes how things would get solved but with um with all that though one thing i do find fascinating with at least that case and this stuff that could be made available via freedom information acts there is a letter sent in to the police there talking about how her body would be found remains we found in the smelter and we were looking into that and investigating it and with that we actually um i found it interesting that the the police report

that was put in there saying that someone had heard a loud whooshing sound that night. And John theorized it could have been the fire from the smelter that was used to burn Teresa Hollick's body that we didn't know about. So we went and spoke with the person who put this police report in, and he didn't remember any of these details in this police report. He didn't put them in there. So we were asking very clearly, okay, so this police report, these are the details of it.

And he was denying it. He was denying that it was his details. So, obviously, I would definitely say that he's more investigating, but it seems with that, there's the idea that that could be a falsified police report against Stephen Avery because that was the one that a phone call made by this person was the one that led to police entering his property. And I thought that was interesting that we've discovered that detail while researching my grandfather. And one extra detail I can put in there, too, when it comes to Sean Bennett Ramsey,

We were looking at the DNA that was found on her corpse, on her vagina. Because that DNA hadn't been tested in years, I believe like 25, almost 20 years since they had tested that DNA. And when she was killed, that DNA was listed as corrupted, so there's nothing to be done with it. But with testing it again, the person who used to test it, he teaches classes on DNA at Stanford. I do believe he had done testing in the original case 25 years ago.

He actually said, well, the instrumentation and the tools and technology have gotten more finite. And they could actually say it's not just the DNA was corrupted. It's the DNA is corrupted because it's a mixture of two people's DNA, both male, neither of which related to her. And I can't help but think, like, how would DNA get in that place on Jean Benet and be a combination of two people's DNA, neither related, both male?

So maybe the person that collected the DNA corrupted it with his own, but there'd still be a male that would not be related to Jean Benet, which, for the laws of our country, would essentially, a federal justice system instantly clears the name of Burke Ramsey or her parents. So you find some interesting things while doing these investigations. So to recap, I do think he did the Goodhart murders.

i do think it would be possible for him to do jimmy hoffa although unlikely i do think it'd be possible for him to kill teresa hallback but we can't say that yet because you know her family deserves more respect to that than to say that ed did it because we don't have the evidence that he did we have a theory and we can't disprove that it did and uh i don't believe he killed um let's see here who else we went through a lot of murders didn't we

You mentioned that you don't think he killed John Bonnet, and you do think he killed at least some of the Atlanta killings. Yeah, because it was in the area. I don't think he killed Lacey Peterson or Herm Brunson Connor. Now, there's definitely more kills, murders out there that he looked into. But one extra thought, because I'm so good at these tangents and taking up extra time.

The idea of the untraceable serial killer, I mean, that's probably one of the big things that kind of shoots down a lot of stuff at the end that makes people sort of laugh at it. Look at what just happened with the original Night Stalker. And with that, I mean, there's now another grandchild of a serial killer out there or another child. So unfortunately, I say I kind of feel like this could be happening again soon. I feel like because DNA is finally getting caught up with the processing in cold cases,

We're going to start to see more and more instances of a serial killer in his 60s or 70s because they're such good chameleons that they did not meet the regular methodology. Most serial killers, they kill in their rituals, not just because of an obsession or pleasure, but because they were successful. Say, oh, this way works. I better do this way again. And they would keep doing that. And they weren't smart enough to change things up and they would get caught eventually.

That's where people like my grandfather, who had training, and if he wasn't FBI informant, he probably had some cursory training with the FBI, you know, because he got permission to write his book via J. Edgar Hoover before he died, about six months before he died. So that's not a name you just drop, you know. So people like my grandfather who had training, who were smart enough to not have to do the same thing ritualistically, they're people that can just look at their own kills as the only recognition they need is they know they did it. They don't care if anyone else knows.

So unfortunately, I think we're going to start seeing more of these people popping out of the woodwork. We're going to start seeing other 60-year-old serial killers getting caught. But at least this very small club I'm in where being a descendant of a serial killer is not going to be as lonely as it has been because more people are joining that club, unfortunately. Thank you so much for that very fascinating insight into the possible crimes.

Ed Edwards. Unfortunately, we are out of time. So, Wayne, I would like to say thank you so much for coming on the show. I hope you found it interesting and that you feel that you had your say. And I wish you a very good day.

Yeah, thank you very much for having me on your show. I did like it. I like the way you go about the details. And if you ever want to have me back for anything in the future, just to have the insight of someone who's been through what I have been through, or just a different look on something for a different case, by all means, reach out. I will do that.

I don't know.

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