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Greetings to my ladies and my card sharks. You know who you are, Zach Stafford. It is I. Do I detect the spirit of spades or uno? This one's uno. More on this for you, Saeed. But first, I am Sam Sanders' uno loser.

I am Saeed Jones Uno neutral, I guess. And I'm Zach Stafford Uno winner. Grandam. Grand champion. Grandam. And you are listening to Vibe Check. Saeed, there was a moment at our game night where I just kept losing. And Zach just looks over at me with this pretty baby doll face. And he goes, you just weren't meant to win.

- And I almost crawled under the table. - You know, I sent Sayid a poem recently where a poet said something to the effect of, "I learned from Sayid Jones, so that's been deep on my mind." So when this moment happened, I thought, "What would Sayid Jones say?" And I just blurted that out. - Sayid Jones taught me. - And it was so smooth and serpentine. Just, you just got into it. And I said, "You know what? You're right. You're right."

Sam, I love that even when I'm not in the room to read you, my spirit is. I love that. But I will say, I had so much fun, even though I was the winner, so of course I had fun. But beyond winning, it was a great time. Sam Sanders hosts the best little game nights. There was a fried chicken present that was fried with chicharrones, which was delicious. Cheese. Truffle mac and cheese, which I had for breakfast. You deserve. Shout out to Henry. It was very good. So good.

But this week on our show, we're talking about the decline of the Hollywood blockbuster and exploring what is going on. Why are there no hot movies, or at least why aren't we going as much? And then we are answering an advice letter about love and pettiness. But before we get into those, I want to check in with my ladies. How are we feeling? How was our holiday? Sam?

It was really good. I like had a lot of just time with people I enjoy doing things that are totally comfortable for me and then like outside of my comfort zone. So Friday night had a really fun game night. Friends gathered. It was a beautiful thing. Good food, good hanging, good records.

Monday, because a friend wanted to, because it reminds him of summer, I drove outside of LA with my friend Jackson to go to Sonic. Because he wanted Sonic to kick off summer. It was great. And I spiked my cherry limeade with some Patron that Zach had left at my house. Wait! Of course I thought you were going to say vodka. Damn. Patron, I mean. It was good. And then I also took a surfing lesson on Sunday.

In the ocean, baby, in a wetsuit. I'm still just paddling on the board, but I'm getting there. But it was nice. So my vibe was just like really good and full holiday weekend. But my secondary vibe news related was that I was Googling something on Sunday or Monday. And for the first time ever, Google gave me back an AI response and it scared me to death.

I sent y'all a screen grab. I just reacted with actual shock, even though you told me. But still, I'm triggered anew. Yes. I had been seeing something online that was talking about snap-on veneers. And I was like, what the hell is snap-on veneers? So I googled, are snap-on veneers the same as dentures? And...

And AI just answered it for me. - Incorrectly though, right? - Kind of incorrectly. But here's my worry. You know, there's certain questions you ask the internet and the answer is all of these news outlets having a news article that answers the question, but has like 10 ads on it. And that is how these places make money. So like when you Google, what time is the Superbowl, the Washington Post or Buzzfeed will have a news article written by someone and they can run ads on that and it's good for their business.

if AI starts just answering your questions and you don't click the links to go to those web pages, it's one more nail in the coffin of web-based news media. Yeah, I mean, that's really disturbing. I mean, you know, the poem I'm going to read, you know, later in the episode, it has a specific historical resonance. And so I just wanted to, I was like, okay, it's been a minute. Let me fact check. And so the thought that I could go like, when was Caroline Forche, you know, writing this poem in 1978? And then AI spits out something totally incorrectly. Yeah.

Yikes. Yikes. I've been really stuck on, I'm a big explorer of AI. I've brought it up. I think one day I read some poetry in the voice of Sam Sanders or Saeed, I don't remember. But I'm always looking at the technology. Hated it. It was bad. But that's my point I want to make is that AI, because the internet itself due to how information and misinformation has really risen over the past few years, the internet's full of bad facts.

And the AI thinks it's real facts. So now we're getting spit information that isn't valid and you have no way to check it. You know, there's no news source. There's no journalist tied to it. Nothing. And it's very scary to me. And now I do not know if the AI is true. And I do know that it's changing the way I relate to searching the Internet. And it was the first time in this moment of AI where I was like, oh. Anyway, so besides that, the personal vibes are great. Yeah.

Well, Saeed, how are you? My vibe's pretty good, I'd say considering. I spent a lot of time this weekend watching Muppets movies on Disney+. You can also watch the original seasons of The Muppet Show because The Muppets were originally like a late night show.

Kind of like a Saturday Night Live review. Yeah. I had no idea. It's really great. There's an episode and they're like, welcome, it's the Kermit the Muppet Show with our special guest tonight, Shirley Bassey. Shirley Bassey sings her Bond theme. It's really great, actually. I love that. So that was really fun. And it was just like, you know, I mean, just a very direct...

I would like be looking at my phone. I would see another news push notification or something. And just, you know, the war, the violence, the genocide. And I'd be like, too much. And I'd be like, what? Is there another Muppets movie I can watch? Muppets Most Wanted. I've got to say, best work Tina Fey has ever done.

And I'll just leave it at that. But my other thing is it's also now that it's like a little nicer, a little warmer, summer's in full effect. I'm back to doing something I love, which is I grab a book.

And I go to one of the bars or restaurants where my friends work on like a random time, like when it's not really busy. And I can sit there kind of chit chat with them while they kind of work, but mostly read my book and allows me to spy. And it's been a long time since I've seen a phenomenon where a guy is at a bar or restaurant with his girlfriend or the woman that he seems to be on a date with. And then another guy shows up.

And the guy is clearly more interested. Wait, the guy is more interested in... Okay, so there's a seeming a guy you assume, if not straight, he is in a relationship or is courting a woman. And then another guy shows up, sits down at the bar, and you can just feel the focus of his attention shift. Sure, part of the reason I love bars is because everybody can chit-chat it up, but you're kind of like...

You forgot there's a woman, Cynthia Leffu. What's that famous quote someone smarter than me said, and I'm going to paraphrase it horribly, but it's like, straight men don't actually love women.

They idolize other men. They look up to other men. They want to be other men. I can't remember who the feminist... Yeah, yeah. They love men. They don't love women. Uh-huh. And it was just funny to see it. And, you know, again, I'm friends with the bartender. So I'm just kind of... I'm watching, you know, it's low-stage drama. You know, I don't watch Real Housewives. I watch real people. But I just waited until everyone kind of involved had left. And...

And the bartender and I went to another patron, a woman who'd just been sitting by herself minding the whole business. And I said, "What did you think about that?" And she said, "I thought that woman was his friend. That was his girlfriend?" - Listen. - So anyway. So I guess my vibe is like, if it's not Muppets, it's Messiness. That's my vibe. - Muppets, not Messiness. - What about you, Zach? - I love that. For my vibe, because I did something similar, Saeed, I ran into Sam at the pool yesterday. He was leaving, I was coming in.

And I just spent the afternoon by myself reading and laying out. However, my book reading got interrupted because I started hearing a group of women who I think were all straight women, probably in their mid to late 40s, talking about their lives. And it was very interesting to me. You know, I love Sex and the City. So hearing a real life Sex and the City conversation, I'm like...

tuning into that. And what I will say is this woman really gagged me and it just affirmed a trend that I've been hearing lately that I want to hear if you guys have heard too. But this woman who was in her late 40s was talking about how she just celebrated her one year anniversary with her boyfriend. And

And the women were like, "Congrats, that's amazing. Tell us more about him." And she was like, "Well, funny enough, he's 28." And they were like, "Oh girl, you better work. That's so amazing." And then she made this fun factoid about how he had lied to her. He said that he was 28 before, but he actually just turned 28 because he was fearful to tell her his actual age.

And then the women were like, where did you meet him? And this woman said, oh, I was leaving my birthday party last year and I got an Uber and he was my Uber driver and he was really flirty. And when we got back to my house, he turned off that Uber app and stayed the night. And he has been there ever since.

And I said, these women, these middle-aged women are middle-aged gay men. This is incredible. Listen, not to quote Lizzo, but it's about damn time. It's about damn time.

Come on. And when I tell you, these other women were shook. They said, the Uber driver? And she said, yes, the Uber driver. And I was like, you better stand in that truth, honey. Listen, it's rare, but when you do have a hot Uber or Lyft driver, it is so electrifying. It changes everything. Okay, good for her. Good for her. It is so beautiful in this age of...

Meeting on apps, living or dying by apps to see a real spark fly in the real world. You know, you go to a gay bar now, no one talks to each other. You know, so much of the way that romance is sparked is through a swipe. And it's like, all right, if there is a moment of like electricity in the real world, I will take it. I'll never forget. This was many years ago. I was on a boat bus.

And the guy sitting next to me, we hit it off. Girl, we were kissing on that boat bus. And then we ended up on a date. The boat bus from like D.C. to New York? You were so funny. But I'll never forget. Like, that was just electric and I loved it. And it was better than any swipe left or swipe right. So IRL sparks, yes. Spontaneity, yes. Go for it. Yeah. It is fun. I mean, you know, I said before, like, ugh, summer, gross. But...

One of the gifts of summer is that we're out here. You know, there are more of those spaces where we find ourselves kind of maybe bumping up against an opportunity. Bump up on it, baby. I like it. I love it. All right, listeners, you know, we're going to read and speak to an advice question from a listener later on this episode. And that's a good way to remind y'all that we read all the fan mail. We read all the emails. Thank you for sending them. Keep them coming.

coming. And if you want some direct, almost instantaneous reaction to your thoughts, you can join our very special group chat on Patreon. A listener told me very kindly that I'm saying it wrong because I say Patreon. But you know what? I like the way it feels. I'm saying that too. Find us on the Patreon slash Patreon. It's patreon.com slash vibecheck.

And before we get into the rest of the episode, we have a quick update from Rafah. According to NBC News, Israeli tanks reached the center of the southern Gaza city Tuesday, which is today, for the first time. This new development comes amidst widespread and continued criticism from around the world. Yes. On Sunday evening, missiles from Israel bombed the so-called safe zone in Rafah. For months, Palestinians were told that this part of Rafah was a safe zone. They would not be hit here.

But the Gaza Health Ministry reports that the bombing and the fires that ensued and the large clusters of tents people live in there, it all killed 45 people and injured 110 others. And those counts will most likely go up.

Absolutely. There's no coming back from seeing those images. And frankly, I don't want to come back from knowing what I understand about the circumstances. Benjamin Netanyahu calls the bombing, quote, a tragic accident, even as, as Zach mentioned, the Israeli military continues to ramp up attacks in the area today, despite widespread condemnation from the international community.

President Biden, as of our recording time, has yet to comment as to whether any of this counts as crossing his, quote, red line. And that's the latest news as of our recording time this Tuesday afternoon. Of course, y'all know who we are. Y'all know what time it is. We continue to call for a ceasefire and demand that our president and government stop supporting this genocide with our money and weapons. We have been sending both aid and bombs to that region for more than half a year now.

It's wild. So we'll leave it there for now, even as we continue to follow it personally. But, okay, this I think is going to be a pretty fun episode. Dare I say it a little messy. So let's jump in, shall we? Let's jump. For our first segment, we're going to talk about the movies.

Y'all know I love the movies. I love talking about the movie business. Zach and I are both proud patrons of Alamo Drafthouse Cinema. Shout out to their fish and chips. Hallelujah. Zach had his birthday party there. Truly, it was a beautiful thing. I did. If you follow the box office, you know that this summer movie season is off to a very, very bad start. The newest Mad Max movie, it's called Furiosa, A Mad Max Saga, stars Anya Taylor-Joy, who we love.

This movie made a little over $30 million over this holiday weekend. And it kind of tied with the new Garfield movie, which is called the Garfield movie. That number, $30 million, might sound big. But this Memorial Day weekend box office, it was the worst in 43 years adjusted for inflation. Oof.

43 years. And this weekend tally, this holiday weekend tally, it's down 40% from the same weekend last year. This is a big deal. And a lot of folks who watch this stuff don't think it's going to pick up and get better over the summer. So I want to talk with you all about what these numbers say about the state of the movie industry and how concerned we should be about whether the movie industry is living or dying.

But first, did either of you see this movie? Or do you care to see this movie? Nope. I did not say it because you didn't like it. And I thought if Sam Sanders couldn't make it through this movie and he liked Madame Web, what am I doing?

What a complicated read. What a complicated read. Y'all know I like stuff that's so bad. Archaeologists are going to be dissecting that centuries from now, Zach. Let me tell you though, I went to go see this movie with a friend, with my friend Joe, because I loved Fury Road with Charlize Theron. I did too. That movie is the perfect chase film. It's two hours of chase. So good. Incredible. And she's a freaking action star. But I walked out of this new one, Furiosa, like,

an hour in because an hour in they were still doing backstory and they hadn't introduced Anya Taylor-Joy yet so all of this movie is a prequel and they're setting up the backstory so because it's like a lot of backstory within a movie that's essentially backstory thank you and I kept saying like where's the car chase where's the car chase where's the car chase I suppose it happened after the first hour but I left

But yeah, I think like in spite of me not liking this movie, I do want movies and blockbusters to do well because I like believe in the movie industry. But increasingly, the numbers are bad. Like, I think we're in this reality now where people aren't just going to the movies less than they were before the pandemic. They're going to the movies less than they were 10 years ago, 15 years ago, and it might not come back again.

And I wonder, like, should I feel bad about that? Should I worry about that? Or is this just the way things change?

So how I enter this conversation is with a deep faith in some reporting we've seen from, you know, Matt Bellany and Polygon and a lot of outlets that are saying the studios are intentionally making 2024 a bad summer for blockbusters and holding it all for next year to make next year a supercharged year to where it is the same as 2019. Because people forget right before the pandemic hit.

Movies were rising again. It was like, oh, we are out here. We're going to movies that are making a lot of money. And the pandemic just stopped everything.

everyone in their tracks. So now, because we're only a year out from the last strikes, meaning a lot of movies are still in post-production, they didn't get to get finished, or they're just now finishing production, the studios seem to have made a concerted effort to say, 2025 is when we're releasing the new Fantastic Four. That's when we're releasing the new James Gunn versions of the DC world. So like a lot of huge avatars out next year.

year. So I think they're holding back. But my worry with that, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, Saeed, is that if we're not creating enough supply to make people want to go to the movies, then

Is it dangerous to make them wait a year to start going or will they just unlearn the behavior altogether? Because the numbers are really troubling when you look at how Americans go to the movies, period. Right now, from the latest data we have from like last year, less than half of all Americans go to the movies at least once a year. Less than half. I don't know. That makes me sad. Let's circle back to the sadness because I do think that's actually kind of interesting. I mean, look...

You didn't even ask me if I went to see these movies. No, you didn't. Because I didn't. I loved Mad Max Fury Road. I just remember it came out and I was in France. And I remember, and I guess by then, even then, my God, it was on streaming. Because I remember I watched it like four or five times and actually got a complaint from a neighbor because I was watching it too loud. But I was like, I was all in. Yeah.

Yeah, I will say that, you know, really since I've started to feel comfortable going back to movie theater since the pandemic started, my moving going experiences, it's hard to think of a great one. You know, setting aside the film, it's how I felt personally about the film. If I set that aside for a moment, how I felt about...

going to the theater, how I felt about how I was treated in the theater by staff, how other people behaved in the theater. I mean, and this is an example, I mean, probably the best example of a movie-going experience was going to see the Beyonce movie in December in terms it was... It was a church convention. It was like, oh, we're coming together. People were even kind of dressing up. They had cute cocktails. I'm sitting down. The woman directly in front of me, I will never forget this, was editing her Google calendar.

Why? At the Beyonce movie? At the Beyonce movie. Jail. At the Beyonce movie. And it was a midnight showing. I was like, what's even? You know, and so, you know, so it's like, it's more expensive. Yes. I think, like, in particular, I would kind of only go to the theater for a blockbuster, a film that felt like.

if yeah, that watching this at home won't be the same, right? That blockbusters, you know, the draw like is, you know, Anya Taylor-Joy, one of the best foreheads in the business. But I was like, I think I would rather just watch Dune 2, which is on HBO Max this weekend. And I did. And I really enjoyed watching it at home. Yeah, this is the thing. And I'm glad you bring it up. Increasingly, what is the most bankable for filmmakers is movies that become events, right?

Everyone's getting dressed up in pink to go watch Barbie. The Gen Z boys are wearing suits to go watch the Minions movie. The Beyonce movie was very much an extension of the tour. Exactly. And so when you don't have those event movies, it's hard to get butts in seats. And the reason I feel so emotional about this is because I think that a good movie theater is part of a neighborhood's social fabric in the same way a good bookstore is.

I really think of it in the same way. These are spaces where strangers gather together to enjoy visual storytelling together. And what I love the most about going to see a movie is like leaving the theater and then asking a stranger how they felt about it who was in the same movie. I do it all the time. I do it all the time. And I love it. I guess I'm not so precious about that because generally I'm like, yes, but it's like you go in there and what I want is we all shut up. You don't talk.

I've never talked to anyone. So to me, it actually doesn't feel like a communal experience. The only exceptions would be seeing Black Panther and Get Out when I lived in Harlem. And I got to see it at the Magic Johnson Theater. And that was... But that felt like a once-in-a-generation, you know, kind of event. But it's still like... Those are still beautiful moments. Like, I remember watching Get Out twice. The first in a white theater, the second in a black theater. Different experience. And I loved it. I love...

the bustling of people before and after a film. I love making small talk with strangers after the movies. I'll lean over to the folks next to me when it's done and be like, did you like it? And so I wonder how to feel about just that happening less. Yeah. I think...

For me, I think it's going to keep happening. It just won't be at mass or the biggest scale like we grew up going. We talked a lot on the show about how every Friday, people in high school would go to the movies. It was part of the social fabric. Boom, that's what you're doing. I think that's shifting a lot. And what this reminds me of, and Kara Swisher was actually the first to point this out in public, was that the movie theater business is beginning to look a lot like

the Broadway business of theater. So there are 42 theaters on Broadway and then they can only have so many shows. So, you know, there's a capacity that they have to kind of float around, but they're never going to be like Super Bowl nights every night. There's not enough seats to do that. And I think movie theaters are going to need to adjust

to that reality that not everyone, especially in these younger generations, are wanting to go to the movies every week. And to Saeed's point, I heard so much over the weekend because it's very social this weekend. So many people said, I loved watching Dune 2 on Max. And that shocked me because I had opening day tickets to Dune at the Chinese theater. Same! But half, yeah. And then all these people are like, I watched it on a small screen. I'm like, that is wild to me because I thought this would get you there.

Can I tell you why I really enjoyed it? Because don't get me wrong, I mean, the visual spectacle, I get it. On a big screen, I'm sure it was really great. But one, I enjoyed watching it on captions. There's so much going on that having captions on really, really helped. And because, you know, Dune is famously complicated, I really...

I really enjoyed being able to pause and rewind things. And it's a long-ass movie, so I took some breaks. I stopped and made some dinner. And meanwhile, I didn't have to worry about some assholes on their phone or talking during a really dramatic scene. I just...

I do not want to be complacent in a cultural shift that results in fewer people in the filmmaking industry. And I'm not just talking about actors, I'm talking about costume designers, gaffers having jobs. If this is where it goes, yikes, and I will maybe change my habits if that's the future we're moving toward.

But also it feels a little bit to me as if like music sales, if we were still kind of going by their success on people buying hard CDs. And it's like there's so many other ways to buy and support this music. You know, just because we don't buy eight tracks anymore doesn't mean we don't listen to music, you know? Or vinyl. Like vinyl is great, but it shouldn't be the measurement. And there was a certain point in American life where...

where the primary method of storytelling that people went to watch on a regular basis were plays. Plays are not dead, but they're not as big as they used to be. And like, that's okay. You know, Zach Stafford, our dear friend, still makes a living in musicals and plays. Like, it exists. And so I think what I'm seeing is movies start to slip in their cultural hegemony. And that just makes me a little sad as like someone who was definitely a movie kid.

But storytelling lives on. I think my questions are if visual storytelling is moving into different mediums, either at home viewing or short form internet viewing, how do we maintain the craft? How do we maintain the jobs? And those are other conversations.

The one other thing that I would say is because it's not movies, it's just movie theaters. It's just movie theaters. And the other thing is people are fucking broke. People are already broke. And if you're already trying to make important decisions about your discretionary budget for whatever it is, and you're like, are we going to go to Red Lobster tonight? Like McDonald's cost $22 as we talked about last week. Are we going to go spend like for two people?

it could easily end up being like, what, $40, $60, $80 really to go to the movies for one night. But you already have a Hulu subscription. You already have a Netflix subscription and you're paying that no matter whether you go out and spend another $80 or not. I get it. So I think that's part of it. But the other thing is like a lot of the box office conversation is

hinges on the plot. They're like, maybe people just don't want to see action movies with a woman in the lead. And I'm like, I don't think that has anything to do with the success of this movie. You know, my thing and my beef with this movie, it was like,

like it was IP that no one asked for. Like they were giving a backstory and a prequel to a film that didn't need one. Fury Road needed nothing else. Oh, I wanted another movie. Oh, no, no, no. I disagree. I wanted another movie with Furiosa. I just wanted Charlize Theron. That's what I'm saying, though. That's what I'm saying. So like we're not disagreeing. I'm saying I didn't need a prequel for her. I didn't need a prequel for Charlize Theron. I just wanted more Charlize Theron. We wanted her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Zach, last word on this. Go ahead.

I think movies will always be around. I think content's always going to be around, but how we consume them and engage with them is going to constantly be evolving. We have to pay attention. I mean, working in digital media forever and then moving into entertainment, the thing I'm always thinking about is friction. What is the thing that's blocking someone from engaging in something? And how do I make there to be less friction? And I think

movies need to be thinking about that right now. Not how do I deal with, you know, selling more popcorn buckets or whatever. It's like, what's keeping people from coming and addressing that? And I think once you, you figure that friction out, then people will feel more heard and be more willing to give their money to you because people aren't making very much money these days. So that's my thought on that. Here's what it is. Here's what I'm trying to get at that I have not been able to articulate.

Part of why I get so emotional about movie theaters, they are one of the few third spaces we have left. And I want those to continue. I like my good coffee shop. I like my good pool while I run into Zach. I like a good space where it feels like

am around other people and there will be some community happening so for that reason i do want movies to make it it's funny though thinking about where this summer is headed this summer the movie gods are banking on ip to save the day the biggest blockbusters that people are hoping for this summer inside out 2 despicable me 4 bad boys 4 and deadpool and wolverine

They are riding on IP. We'll see how it goes. Of all those movies, I truly think I will only go see...

I'll see all of them except Deadpool and Wolverine. I'm not doing that. I disagree. I'm so excited for Deadpool and Wolverine. But what I will say is, I finally watched Inside Out, the first one. I have been waiting for eight years, I guess, to watch it. Waterworks. As a Pisces, I have never felt more seen or heard. That movie is incredible. How they talk about sadness, that deserves a Peabody. So, I'm going to see Inside Out 2.

Listeners, let us know how you feel about the movies. Are you still going to movie theaters? How often and why? Am I wrong to worry so much about movie theaters? Let us know your movie thoughts. Email us whenever you want. All right. Time for a break. When we come back, pettiness and advice. Stay with us.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.

Listeners, we are back and we are about to talk about love and pettiness and how to manage it all this summer, which I am very, very excited about because summer in my mind has started, even though Sam Sanders says it's not for a few more weeks. I don't believe it. We're not weathermen. It's fine. I'm good. It's summer. Today's advice question is from Cam and I want to give Cam a heads up. I loved your email, but I had to shorten it a little bit. So please don't be too mad if I cut something out. That was super important. Feel free to reach out. We can

out. We can talk about it. All right. Cam says, when is it okay to be a petty bitch as the wrong person in a breakup? And here's some backstory to why Cam asks this. So Cam writes, my ex and I broke up a few months ago, and it was painful because he ghosted me after nearly two years together. Instead of having a breakup conversation, he just disappeared, which was both shocking and hurtful.

Recently, he resurfaced in our city. My friend saw him, and when she confronted him, he denied his identity to her. She took a picture of him and sent it to me. This cowardly behavior enraged me all over again."

Now, I have photographic evidence of him lying. I want to send him the picture and call out his cowardice, but I'm conflicted. So far, I've maintained no contact and kept the moral high ground, embodying grace and indifference. I've followed the advice about not being ruled by anger or stooping to his level, but I'm pissed. I want to express my anger to him regardless of his response. Kendrick Lamar blasted someone he hates and it resonated culturally. I want to do the same. Can I send a petty text?

So, friends, what do we think? You're not Kendrick Lamar. I'm sorry. True. None of us are. Yeah, but I'm going to say that I dealt with a similar situation, and I'm not going to tell y'all which relationship. No one goes to me, but it was a question of like...

Do I send the note to let you know how you were actually wrong on all these things? Got it. Long story short, I sent the email and guess what I got back? A be well. I wish you well. I wish you well. I'm sorry. You're in pain. I wish you well. And so this is the thing when we want to correct the record or let this wrong person know how wrong they are.

People are always writing the script to the story that is their own life. And the thing I realized the older I get, most of those scripts people are writing are

Always make them the hero. They always make them the hero. And no matter what alternative scripts you offer to them, they're going to choose the script that makes them the hero, even if they've done something wrong. In fact, their story might acknowledge the wrong that they did and say that it was done for the right reasons.

This man has made himself such a hero in his own journey. He won't accept any information otherwise. Your friend sees him. He ignores her reality as a person. He's not even his own character. He's so heroic. He's a different entity in the narrative. This is not someone who is going to process new information and say, hmm, you're right. So to this, I say, you can write a petty letter.

But ask yourself how you will feel if he doesn't respond, if he writes back with an I wish you well, if he writes back and says, actually, here's where you're all wrong. So the petty of the letter that you can write is one thing. Ask yourself how you might feel about a variety of responses. And then ask yourself, how is that going to affect future you? But I'll say for me,

What really helped me get over that situation was saying, I'll never be able to write his story or change his story. He'll always be his own hero. But what I have from this bad experience are lessons for how to keep writing the story of my life even better. I got to write my own script. I got to write my own screenplay. And he's not going to be in it. And so I want you, dear listener, to get to a point where you don't need this man in your screenplay.

Your story is big enough. It's big enough. And I want you to hold on to that. And I just wish you that. That's all. I love that. Saeed, what about you? My response is very different. I do agree with Sam. I just think we're kind of looking at two different phases of the same process is what I would say. Because first of all...

Petty? I was a little disappointed. Because, you know, and I want to be very clear, I've been the person who's gotten the 4,000 word email from different email addresses. I've gotten the texts long after, and I'm like, what's going on? You know what I mean? I don't think that's petty. It's something else. But that's not petty. Petty, for example, is glitter is really hard to get out of a house. So petty would be

- If you still have the key to this person's home, this is what you do. You put glitter everywhere. But if you want to be really simple, just put glitter on top of someone's ceiling fan while the fan is off. They won't know. And then one day they turn that fan on and then glitter is everywhere. - Who is instructing you?

Petty will let you know that you can buy a package of live bees and have it sent to someone. What? You can mail that. You can mail bees? You can mail bees. We need a language advisory on this episode. This man is inciting violence.

You, in fact, can mail all kinds of things. You know, if you really think about it, if you spend some time on the digital highways and byways, you know what I'm saying. So, you know, an email or text is not petty. I want to be very clear. Stepping away from that for a moment. Yeah, let's. No, let's stay there. The thing is, I just wanted to, you know, spitball. I love creative thinking. The thing is, I think being petty is,

is fine as this, and this does go to what Sam is saying, as long as you acknowledge that it is not actually about healing. Healing is about moving on, right? Healing is about restructuring your sense of self so that you can turn poison into medicine. Petty is an attempt to reassert control, right?

Petty is an attempt to save face. This person embarrassed me. This person did me wrong. It's a slight against my dignity. And petty is like a pushback against that feeling of like, I feel like myself has been taken away from me. Like someone ghosted you after two years. Wow. You know what I mean? So petty is like, you are not going to make me feel like I'm transparent. You will see me.

That is not the same thing as healing, but I think it can be valuable. Okay, two things, though, to think about. One, you need to think about the consequences of your pettiness. Be petty, but think about it. You're already, it seems like, in a social group where your ex is encountering other people in your life. If you do something petty, what's the fallout for them? Right?

You know, do they, do you want your friends to like, she was like, I was at brunch and the next thing I know, this guy's coming and yelling at me about something, you know, that's something to consider. And what I would also say is always plan your pettiness out with trusted friends. Yeah.

If you're going to write a letter or a text, definitely send it to friends first. Hey, they might help you make it better. They might be like, you can actually make this line a little more cutting. Or they might say, don't do that, baby. You don't want to go that low. You know what I mean? So that's my thought.

I mean, I think these are great advice, pieces of advice to give, especially the bees. I'm writing that down for enemies. I'm not writing down the bees. I'm not writing down the bees. That's so smart. But I think what you're both getting at is that

You know, the uncomfortable truth about healing, especially when it comes to someone else, is that it sometimes requires you not to even engage with them. Like, it's about the work that you're doing internally. And then all these desires to yell at them, to send them this text with a picture of them at a bar saying you lied, whatever. You know your truth and that's enough.

And that person, to Sam's point, is living their version of their truth. And your healing has nothing to do with their correcting the record at all. It only is going to draw you backwards. It will pull you down. It will sometimes make it a mockery in a public space. Like, I have been that girl that has decided to make a scene at a bar because someone wronged me. And I look back at that as a learning, but I'm not...

particularly proud of those moments of myself. I wish I just went to therapy instead. So I think, you know, be careful when you're lashing out. But sometimes, to Zayde's point, it feels good to get back at someone for a second. But that's not going to be the Saul forever for you. Well, and I'll never forget, I told someone after this breakup, I said, I just want him to know how much it hurt. And they said back to me,

He never will because he can't. It's impossible. And if you're looking for an email or a letter to give you that, if you're looking for a letter or an email to have him come back and say, you're right, I see it your way, baby girl.

- Ain't gonna happen. Ain't gonna happen. - I agree so much. And what I have learned in my life so far, and I think being gay has taught me this, is that the people that bullied me in high school and were really awful to me, I could have gone back to that town I was in and probably yelled at them in my twenties, been like, "I went to school and I learned this. I'm proud of being gay." But I instead chose to be proud, live my life, live my truth, not even worry about them. And the amount of emails I get every year from some random person or a Facebook message or something being like,

I'm sorry I did this. I now have a gay child or I have this. Like what you need to learn is that life is going to teach them the lesson. You don't have to teach them that lesson. Let life do that job and let it go. Yep. Yeah. And you will never date that man again. This is the thing. Every ex is a number of lessons. And if all you get from this bad relationship, Cam, is the ability to spot these motherfuckers five feet away in the future. Good.

As long as you know, like, this kind of guy, you know how to avoid him. Thank goodness. Yeah. And listen, Cam, I do want to say, listener, it's heavy. It's heavy. The idea that the person who did us harm, and this could be in a romantic context, this could be family, this could be a former employer. The idea that the person who did you harm will never be the person who can heal you in the way you perhaps very correctly think you deserve. Ooh, yeah.

That is hard to sit with. And it's like, if you weren't sad before, you'll be sad after you really begin to process that. But you have to process it. So yeah, listen, I'm like, be petty by all means. I'll be in the Patreon this afternoon putting down some other ideas if y'all want.

No problem with that. But you have to understand it is at best a short-term band-aid. It is. It's a short-term band-aid. And, you know, after the bees go away and after the glitter is flung around, unfortunately, you're probably still going to feel the way you feel the next morning. And you might have been arrested. You know what I mean?

For the penis. Who knows? And this is why people should remember that you vote for your DA. I don't know. I know what a felony is. I'll tell you that. I know what a felony is. Listen. Good luck, though. Good luck. Good luck. Let us know what pans out. Listeners, how do you deal with your exes? Let us know.

Or no, listeners, send us the wildest thing you did in a breakup. I would love to read that. I want to hear some horror stories. I want that. Oh, yes. Yeah, please send that over. Love that energy. Well, with that, we're going to take another quick break. But as always, send us your questions. Send us your concerns, your thoughts, your feelings. We will maybe one day turn it into a whole episode like we did with today's. But with that, we're going to take a quick break. But we'll be right back. So don't go anywhere.

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All right, buzz, bitch, we're back. Welcome to Revenge Check. Before we end the show, of course, we like to share something that's helping us keep our vibes right. And I'm going to start with Sam because I'm excited to hear more about UNO.

Yeah. Which I love. I love Uno. And it's actually my recommendation. You know, I've talked before about the ways I hang out with my friends. I've talked about game nights. I've talked about meeting my dear friend Audrey at Costco. And that's our hang. She has a young child. Her only real time to talk is at the Costco. So my recommendation this week, especially as we move into the summer season, is plan activities with your friends that are activities.

We do this thing, especially in a city like LA, where you only see your friends for drinks or for dinner. For drinks or for dinner. For dinner or for drinks. For drinks and for dinner. Fine.

But I have so much more fun when I'm doing something with my friends, whether it's running errands or playing Uno with them or going on a hike or whatever. But if I can put an activity into it, it's a better hang. And this is not rocket science. We all know this. But I feel like as we enter this summer season, it's a perfect time to do things with your friends that are actual things. I like it. I love it.

that's my recommendation. Also, Uno never fails. I'm literally going to text my neighbors when we get off the Zoom to be like, do y'all want to do Uno this week? I ended up after my Sonic excursion with my friend Jackson. He was like, let's get a drink. We end up at a bar that has Uno. I'm like, you know, this is my Uno weekend. He had never played before. I taught him in two minutes. He beat me four times. Uno works. Uno is for everybody. It really isn't your destiny to win. I'm just not good at it. I,

I wasn't meant to win. I guess it is a game of strategy. A little. It's all about how you shuffle that deck. Truly. Chance, luck, all that. But as Zach said, I just wasn't meant to win. However, I enjoy Uno. And my recommendation is just like activities with your friends that are actually activities. Summer's great for it. Enjoy, people. I like that. Zach, what about you?

So I'm recommending this week the TV show We Are Here on Max. It's been on for a few years now. It used to star Shangela, Bob the Drag Queen, a bunch of other girls. But they've recast it this season. And it is amazing. It stars Sasha Velour, Latrice Royale, Priyanka, and Jada Essence Hall for the first few episodes. And why I particularly love it is that the first three episodes...

take place in Tennessee in Murfreesboro. My family lives there and it's a very homophobic place. I used to have family in Murfreesboro as well. It's like a complicated place that's been outlawing drag and the show feels really urgent now because of all these anti-drag and anti-trans bills rolling through and the show's really tackling them head on. And my big surprise from watching the first three episodes is once they start meeting local Nashville drag queens,

my gay best friend in high school is a drag queen now and he pops up on the bus and performs. And I was like, I love that. I was like, what?

That's really cool. I love that. I love this new cast. One, and I know people talk about like diversity, but knowing these four queens, it's not even necessarily about like ethnic diversity in terms of like life experiences and communication styles. Having someone who's like, kind of like, you know, Sasha Velour kind of comes from queer theory. Sasha can talk to you about Judith Butler, but then like someone like Latrice Royale, who first of all is also older.

and comes from a very different like kind of church driven black wisdom out of Florida I just I really love kind of the range and then you've got Priyanka and Jada too I love the range okay I might check it out I've always been a little skeptical or maybe hesitant about the idea of like people who live on the margins being charged with educating people who hate them but

They're handling it well, you think? And they're getting a check. I mean, yeah, they're getting a check. But what I think it seems really politically interesting is that they're entering cities where these communities had tried to have drag shows and then they got banned. So they're coming in and using their full power of their show to fight against the local politicians. So it brings this huge spotlight on really small bodies of government who are doing really petty and hurtful, awful things to queer people. So it,

And there's also, you know, once you get to Oklahoma, I think there's some interesting politics at play because a lot of the local queer groups are saying they don't want to have the drag show, but these queens are like, we should have it. So there's like an interesting conversation about like being from a place and when you helicopter in what kind of politics you should be enacting or not. So it's complicated. So it sounds a little bit more like documentary because I think of like queer...

queer eye yeah it's more dog i don't like that feeling yeah okay cool well saeed what about you what's your poem this week so i mentioned this earlier when we were talking about the importance of being able to fact check and getting accurate responses um this poem is is one of my favorites it's also i would say a classic poem it was written in the 70s um it's titled the colonel

by Carolyn Forche. Carolyn Forche, in addition to being a writer, she also spent some time, you know, kind of as a journalist and activist in places like El Salvador in 1978. And at this time, listen, you know, you can read between the lines, but I'll say this, at this time,

At the time, the country was in disarray. A civil war was taking place between the U.S.-backed military and the Liberation Front. And she spends some time there on the scene. The title, again, is The Colonel by Carolyn Forche. What you have heard is true.

I was in his house. His wife carried a tray of coffee and sugar. His daughter filed her nails. His son went out for the night. There were daily papers, pet dogs, a pistol on the cushion beside him.

The moon swung bare on its black cord over the house. On the television was a cop show. It was in English. Broken bottles were embedded in the walls around the house to scoop the kneecaps from a man's legs or cut his hands to lace. On the windows, there were gratings like those in liquor stores. We had dinner, rack of lamb, good wine. A gold bell was on the table for calling the maid.

The maid brought green mangoes, salt, a type of bread. I was asked how I enjoyed the country. There was a brief commercial in Spanish. His wife took everything away. There was some talk of how difficult it had become to govern. The parrot said hello on the terrace. The colonel told it to shut up and pushed himself from the table. My friend said to me with his eyes, "'Say nothing.'

"'The colonel returned with the sack used to bring groceries home. "'He spilled many human ears on the table. "'They were like dried peach halves. "'There is no other way to say this. "'He took one of them in his hands, shook it in our faces, "'dropped it into a water glass. "'It came alive there. "'I am tired of fooling around,' he said. "'As for the rights of anyone, "'tell your people they can go fuck themselves.'

He swept the ears to the floor with his arm and held the last of his wine in the air. Something for your poetry, no? He said. Some of the ears on the floor caught this scrap of his voice. Some of the ears on the floor were pressed to the ground.

And again, that poem is dated May 1978. And I did fact check that, yes, Carolyn Forche did spend time in El Salvador. Wow. Incredible. Quite a poem. All right. Well, listeners, what are you feeling or not feeling this week? What's your vibe? Check in with us at vibecheckatstitcher.com.

And my loves, my bees, that's the show. Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode. I ain't no bee. Buzz, buzz, bitch. You went to see Renaissance three times. I'm sorry. Your fate has been decided. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast listening platform. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts and leave a review. And most importantly, tell a friend.

Huge thank you to our producer, Chantal Holder, engineers, Rich Garcia, and Brendan Burns and Marcus Hon for our theme music and sound design. Special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda. And special shout out to Aisha Ayub who creates our social content. We love you. We love you, Aisha. Also, Aisha, congrats on your recent college graduation. Yeah. Woo!

Love to see it. Love to see it. Listeners, we want to hear from you. Do not forget, you can email us whenever you want. Vibecheck at Stitcher.com. You can also keep in touch with us on Instagram. Zach be posting that content at Vibecheck underscore pod. Also, our Patreon or Patreon as some of y'all make me call it. For $5 a month, you can get direct access to our group chat, Patreon.com slash Vibecheck.com.

Stay tuned for another episode next Wednesday. And truly, the listeners who corrected me on the pronunciation of Patreon, you were calling me in, not calling me out. I appreciate you. Next Wednesday, do not mail bees to somebody's house. Goodbye. How's someone mail it for you? Yeah, someone else. Bye. Stitcher.

Damn.

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