Welcome to the Chaos
57:37 Share

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.

Hey, ladies. Sorry to start the show this way, but I am just now watching the video of this ship hitting that bridge in Baltimore. And what in the Michael Bay? Girl. What in the Armageddon? It's actually shocking. It's a shocking video. Thoughts and prayers to all those affected. Oh, my goodness. With that. Hey, ladies. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Stafford. And you're listening to Vibe Check. Welcome to the chaos, everybody.

I mean, honey, there's just a lot going on. We're not even talking about our topics. We just mean this is a show about news, culture, and how it all feels. And baby, it feels shook. It feels...

Also, the universe is collapsing. Houses getting raided. Rappers' kids in handcuffs. It is. It's a lot. And it's weird because we wake up on Tuesday mornings, do the show first thing, and sometimes days like today happen, and we're like, how do I keep up with this new cycle that is moving so fast? What is going on? Because also, we don't know a lot of details about some of the things we're going to talk about. And then later in the show, we know a lot of details about things we're going to talk about. But this breaking news, like the ship, is wild.

Yeah. So I think it's just worth saying that despite what you might see on your online discourse this week, because this is definitely what happens when there's an event like this bridge collapse, the three of us are not bridge and infrastructure experts. We actually don't have much insight to offer and we're not going to pretend to. But instead, this week, we are going to talk about two other, I would say,

I would say different kind of seismic shifts we have seen in the news recently in culture. First of all, the New York State Appellate Court decision regarding Trump...

And that bail money, honey. That cat has 10 lives. I'm telling you. Girl, we might be 16, 20 at this point. Wild. It's funny. I was just watching a clip of Michelle Pfeiffer's incredible performance and her nine lives scene where she's like, two left. I think I'll save one for Christmas. A cat woman. I was rooting for that villain. I'm not rooting for this one. Anyway, wild.

We are going to talk about the implications of that decision. It was very huge. And of course, it's only one of, I believe, four court cases Trump is dealing with while also trying to run for president again by hook or by crook. We'll talk about what all that means, what we're seeing. And then also, and I'll be honest, maybe this isn't a seismic shift. This is just a side obsession. Gen Z and aging is something I've been

paying attention to, I think it's interesting and this is really not coming out of place of judgment. I'm interested in the social determinants of health. Is there maybe something going on in our culture, in our way of living that is impacting

I don't think that's like a shallow question. I'll tell you what it is. Gen Z's been running around for five years wearing the shit we used to wear in high school. You look old, you look tired. Sam is making a joke, but also there is some truth to that, which I can't wait to talk about. They can't dress. Fashion cycles have shortened a lot. So there is some...

rhyme to the reason here. A reason to the rhyme. Jinkos didn't work the first time. I love, I'm like, we're talking about the social determinants of Helen Stamps. Like, I hate your mom, Jeans. Get rid of the mullets. I'm telling you. Well,

Well, before we get to a very nuanced and gentle conversation about AG and a rough and tumble conversation about Trump, let's talk about the vibes. Obviously, the three of us are a little shooketh, shaken, and stirred, but beyond that, sisters, how are you feeling? Zach, how are you doing? What's your vibe?

Before I get into my vibe, I want to just say thank you for reminding me that Michelle Pfeiffer was Catwoman because that was an iconic role. Also, fun fact, people should watch the behind the scenes of her filming the scene where she takes the whip and knocks all the mannequins' heads off. Oh, yes. She does it in one take. It's amazing. It's incredible. Anyway, icon legend Michelle Pfeiffer, you will always be famous.

How I'm doing. I am shooketh due to many things, but one thing in particular has really shaken my tables. And Sam Sanders heard me talk about it last night. And that is I finished Love is Blind. I binged the whole thing over the weekend. My weekend was Love is Blind. I didn't do anything else really. You're welcome. I got to the reunion.

And my God, what is going on with straight people? I do not understand. There's so much trauma, so much therapy that is needed. Team AD forever. Team Clay people, go away. But Clay is fine. All-American fine, but has so many daddy issues. My God. Because the daddy is the issue. The daddy is the issue.

What I love about this season of Love is Blind, they put the generational curses on display. Oh, yeah. Also, for those who have not yet watched this season of Love is Blind, spoiler alert, the next 30 seconds or so, I'm going to be given major plot points. So fast forward if you need to. So, Syed, you haven't watched, but Clay was a fuckboy in this season. He stands up.

the woman we love, A.D., at the altar. And this comes after his dad, who was kind of a deadbeat philanderer, shows up the day before, and instead of giving his son Clay a pep talk before the wedding, he basically says to him...

You know how it be. Just do what you want to do. That's all I can say. Basically giving his son permission to hoe the day before his wedding. So then Clay stands up this bride. And then afterwards, that same father is having a conversation with Clay's mother. And she basically says, you trifling no count. On camera. To his face. It's wild. And she says something that's even like...

it's perfect television. It's incredible that these parents carry the show at the end. Black parents. Yeah, black parents carry the show. At the end, she looks at her ex-husband and says, I forgave you for what you did. I'm now dealing with the fallout of new details from what you did due to this show. But,

what we should be focusing on here is that you haven't said sorry and let your son heal for things he never asked for in his life. And that's what you need to do. And I was like, let this play in every daddy's home while he's watching sports. Please put this on, on billboards. My father needs to listen to it. So many fathers need to listen to it. Like it is like, we are, we as children are not the, we do not need to be our parents' sins. We don't need to repeat these family curses. We can break them, but we also need the parents, like this dad, to do better. My God. Yeah.

But is that your vibe? Well, my vibe is just I'm shaking. I was not prepared for... I thought it was going to be overhyped because I saw the social media clips. I was like, sure, sure, sure. I love Love is Blind season one. But like, you know, Lauren and Cameron were the winners of that season in my mind. And it was like not a lot of turmoil. It was like, okay, they married someone they met for a day. Cool. This season...

My God. It's wild. What is going on? It is. It's good TV. Netflix has figured out what they're good at and it's trashy reality TV. It's their sweet spot. So anyway. Well, Sam, how are you doing? I'm just sitting here looking concerned. Yeah. Said is just like, what? What?

My vibe this week, and y'all saw me texting the group chat last week after the news was revealed, but after we taped our episode pretty much all about Kate Middleton and the Photoshop heard around the world, we found out that she has cancer and is going through already preventative, I believe, chemotherapy.

So we heard that news and I immediately texted the group and said, did we say anything in that episode that we should regret, apologize for, retract? And we said no because our beef was with the way the royal family handled the messaging, not with anything medically doing with Kate Middleton. But after that, my vibe was soured when a lot of internet writers and trolls said,

started to blame the viewing public for following this scandal after the cancer diagnosis. Perhaps the most prominent op-ed with this idea came from Pamela Paul, a New York Times columnist. And she basically was finger wagging at everyone who raised questions about that Photoshop and the Royal Family's press strategy after this cancer diagnosis. And it all just felt like fake and tired because nobody was making jokes about cancer.

We were making jokes about what is in actuality a state-led disinformation campaign. Yeah. That's what it was. Royals are heads of state, and they were lying to us. And to try to turn this around and make me feel bad for calling out the lie, shut up. That's my vibe. Let me say something about Pamela Paul. Say it, baby. Please spill, because she has many, many sins. Yeah.

Pamela Paul was the New York Times book editor for over a decade. And if you are a passionate reader, certainly if you're a writer or just like, you know, really part of the book world, you have probably some strong opinions. But I will say, you know, since Pamela Paul left that position as book editor and joined the opinion section about, I guess it seems like a, like a year ago, it's kind of revealed, like, it's like, yeah, I mean, look, I,

The only thing about the Pamela Paul, you're right, self-righteous finger wagging regarding Kate Middleton that stood out to me, I was like, well, this is interesting. I guess you're taking a break from bringing a turf this weekend. Because usually Pamela Paul uses –

her word count to attack trans people in a really horrific way. So, you know, when harm is done and not accounted for, it continues. It remains animated. Decisions that Pamela Paul has made continue to impact people. And also, you call yourself a journalist and you're basically defending yourself

state-led disinformation, that's the side you want to be on? In no way can anyone say the Royals did the right thing about how they handled this. Also, I just have to say, speaking, love is blind and not shit, man. Prince William is going through a lot, but the deleting of the post blaming his wife for that photo edit made me mad.

madder than the post themselves. They deleted it? Oh, they deleted them. Yeah. So it's just like really just at least stand in your truth and be like, yeah, we were trying to create a shield for her protector, but it's still even in that moment, it didn't feel like protection. So I have a lot of feelings about these straight relationships. I'm sorry for you all in them. I have concerns, feelings. I know we have to move on, but this does feel significant. What I will say about Kate, I feel terrible for her.

One thousand. Awful. Oh, my God. And to be abandoned by or perhaps even portrayed by the people whose literal jobs, if to say nothing, your husband is to kind of protect you is really disappointing. But, you know, as we always say, white supremacy doesn't care about anyone, including people who consistently benefit from white supremacy. It's going to come for you, too. Really unfortunate. I was her. Well, side. What's your vibe?

My vibe, since, you know, it feels like we're kind of cleaning a house out here. We're getting Clay and his daddy, you know, together. We're getting Pamela Paul together, the palace together. Homeland Security is getting puffed Sean Diddy Combs together. Yesterday afternoon, not one, but two of us. This is wild.

This is wild to me. Not one, but two properties, a property in LA and a property in Miami, Florida, belonging to Diddy, were raided. The video's very dramatic. At least one of his sons was seen on video arrested. The sons are involved too? Wow. Ooh.

Not a family business. Not a family business. And it's apparently connected to – I mean there have been several lawsuits, but I think for many people the lawsuit from Cassie, a.k.a. Cassandra Ventura, I think just is a beautiful name, that lawsuit that was settled in record time that alleged abuse, sex trafficking, assault. I mean it's just – there's a lot of evidence. This is –

Pretty shocking. And I just, you know, we're not doing like a full segment on it today, but it just, I think this is in terms of the scale of harm that's being revealed. I think this is going to, with time dwarf the Weinstein allegations. Yeah. Actually. And it's, it's funny. I was having dinner with some good friends, one of whom is a record executive and we're talking about Diddy. And he said, whatever you think of me too in Hollywood, it's,

The music industry is worse by orders of magnitude. The shit that goes down in that industry is wild. So long story short, there are no more secrets. There's just time. We're going to find out. We're going to find out. Anywho, we got to move on. We will. So we'll see. My vibe is just like I'm watching and Beyonce's new album comes out on Friday. I'm just going to be holding on to the music for dear life. I damn near forgot about Beyonce giving all this news. This ain't Texas. I'm scared. I am scared.

scared. With that, that's a great bridge to the news of next week we're doing a Beyonce episode. You're welcome. However, I put an asterisk around this. We will do this Beyonce episode, Miss Beyonce Knowles Carter, if

not only if the album's fully out and amazing, you don't delay it for some reason, but also if you give us some visuals, give us more to chew on. Don't give Beyonce an ultimatum. She already said that we're the visuals, so we're the jester clown fool flops. We got to dance out there. She really played us with that one. Also, how is it we are in hour zero of this album coming out and we still don't have Renaissance on streaming? What is going on? I have questions. Renaissance was truly the friends we made along the way.

Yeah, it was. It was. Anyway. And before we get into this episode, we want to thank all of you who have sent us fan mail and reach out to us on social media. As always, we love hearing from you. So keep them coming at vibecheckatstitcher.com.

And for y'all who are listening to the new Beyonce album over the weekend, send us emails with your feedback on that album. We might incorporate that into our Beyonce chat next week. It's going to be Beyonce time. Also, send a voice note if you want. We may play it on the show. Do not send us videos of you line dancing. I've had enough. I enjoyed the line dancing. I enjoyed it for a week.

And now, same with the Cuff It dance. The Cuff It dance went on too long. It went on too long. Sam will forever be a grumpy old man. I love that. All right. Well, with that, shall we get into this episode? For better or worse, go. Go.

This ain't Texas. It is, though, New York. An appellate court in New York, to be exact. Oh, no. What? Get out. Get out. Take your insurer and leave, sir. Don't make me get a new bottle. I'll bring it out right here. Anywho, we're talking about New York. Concrete jungle where dreams are made of. Trump made some news there yesterday.

Long story short, it's looking like there's no way Trump will see the inside of a jail cell before the election this November. And also he'll most definitely be on the ballot no matter what. To start with the Trump of it all, as of last week, Donald Trump was on the hook for a lot of money. He was going to have to pay an almost half billion dollar bond in a New York state civil fraud case.

Had he not been able to secure those funds, the state of New York was going to start seizing his assets potentially and freezing his bank accounts. This would have been a big deal for a man trying to run for president. Trump said he was trying to get that bond together, but more than 30 companies said no because too much of his wealth is tied up in his real estate.

But on Monday, yesterday, a New York appeals court lowered that bond from $454 million to $175 million. This is major. It means that Trump can most likely keep campaigning, keep those businesses running, and keep all of his properties.

The other scenario would have been pure chaos for him. Saeed, Zach, first, how do we feel about this? The court just threw Trump a major lifeline. It's really hard to overstate how differently this week would have been for Trump had he not gotten this ruling. We would have been talking about today Letitia James going to put padlocks around his properties.

I have feelings and don't have feelings about this. I live in a world in which Trump is never going to be held accountable in the ways that

will be sufficient enough for me. He is not being treated like a regular person of America, and he is continuously treated like the very richer treated in these courts. So when this was hovering above him, all I thought was, one, Elon Musk or someone's going to step in and pay for this. And if not, he will get this appeal together and be able to have it lowered, and then it was lowered. So it just feels like...

He will continuously be given different exit paths out as long as someone's getting their money or someone sees him as potentially having more power in the world. So I don't know. I just have kind of – I've been exhausted. This man has run me down. He's been doing this stuff since what? 2015? We're almost 10 years into this. I am tired. I am so tired. That's how I feel. Okay. Yeah. Saeed?

Yeah, I mean, you know, this New York appeals court, it's five judges. I believe all of them, or at least most of them, were appointed by Democrats. Four of the five are judges of color, which whether or not you want to say that's significant, I think it's at least worth noting. Yeah. I think with this decision, what I find most frustrating—correct me if I'm wrong—

But this group of judges didn't explain their decision, which I understand they don't have to. But they didn't give any reasoning for it. They didn't say, listen, the burden of the previous bail was unreasonable. It was too high and we don't – what I would disagree, but that would be a reason. They didn't give us anything to go on, which is really frustrating when the most gracious –

leap of faith that I could take for the justice system. And you're right, the various decisions, how like the impeachment hearings, both of them went, you know, how the January 6th commission went. My gracious read is that people are hesitant to be the

one deciding factor. I don't think anyone wants the history books to look back and say, see, that one person changed everything. And we have been reading about this idea ever since a few weeks ago, the Supreme Court ruled that Donald Trump's name could stay on the Colorado primary ballot. So a lot of states across the country were hoping to get Trump's name off the ballot and

because of a constitutional law that says if you have taken part in insurrection or treason, you cannot run for president.

But every judge has said, you can't block it. We don't want to get involved in this. It's not our place to decide. And significantly with Colorado and the couple of other states, Maine, any party that either proactively or just as a result of the wheels of justice that has been in the position to make decision, but Colorado stands out in my mind, the death threats-

that those lawmakers got immediately, you know, is significant. Yeah, yeah. But all of this...

Feels like whether it be judges, whether it be Congress, none of them want to have their names in the history books as having a finger on the scale for Trump. I think everyone at these higher levels of power wants to leave the choice on Trump to the voters in November.

And they don't want any parts of it besides that. But this makes for a really weird election cycle because even though Trump is going to get this lower bond, he has another trial that is set to begin April 15th. So we're still going to see Trump in court between now and November.

It's going to be a wild few months. How are y'all just thinking about how to take all of it in, take the Trump in, as we continue to march towards an election in which right now Trump leads the polls? I would say, and I know...

Yeah.

towards an election, his followers and many people will just see this as support of his innocence, that he actually is being toyed with by our systems and that Democrats are just doing this cat and mouse game with him. But someone needs to actually prove the point and find him guilty of criminal misdeeds or whatever, and that may shift it. But right now, I think all of this is only helping his case if no one finishes these cases before November 1st.

in my opinion. He's Teflon right now. It's striking because, you know, until now in this conversation, we've actually overlooked the decision, multiple decisions in favor of E. Gene Carroll. This is the woman who sued him over rape allegations and then over defamation. Civilly. At least twice. What's striking that the only person right now, literally the only person who's been like, well, I'll be the person is one of his direct victims, E. Gene Carroll. Yeah.

E. Jean Carroll and her lawyers have been consistent and firm, and I think it's really striking that a survivor of sexual violence is seemingly doing what all three branches of government seem like they're not going to do. And what is so maddening about that verdict – we all saw that big dollar amount when she won –

There's a good chance that if she sees any of that money, it won't be for years. Trump will appeal. Trump will drag it out. Trump will hide assets. She may never get paid. You know, on top of what's happening to Trump or not happening to Trump in the courts, we're also seeing America's political industrial complex collapse.

kind of circle the wagons around Trump and anoint him as the head of the RNC. You know, he literally took over the RNC with Trump loyalists. All of his opponents in his race for the presidency are gone. And now we're seeing many Trump loyalists end up in positions of power where

On TV. I'm going to let Zach lead on this one, but there's been a lot of drama over former RNC chair Ronna McDaniel being hired as an NBC News contributor. It's gotten so crazy that some of the biggest names in NBC News have gone on the air to speak out against their executive's choice to hire her. Rachel Maddow had a half an hour monologue on Ronna McDaniel last week. What's going on, Zach?

Yeah, it has become, as the Washington Post has put it, an insurrection at NBC. Oh, not the word insurrection. Wait a minute. Insurrection is being used. Headline. The Washington Post has some nerve using the word insurrection, but I digress. That's why I had to mention it. It's here from last night.

Jeremy Barr, a reporter there, he probably didn't write this headline, but he wrote the copy inside it that inspired the headline. But the headline is NBC facing on-air insurrection over hiring of Ronna McDaniel. And what we've seen consistently since Sunday, I'm going to meet the press and Chuck Todd, who Chuck Todd has his own interesting ethical background of issues. They all have pushed back on the hiring of Ronna McDaniel, who recently was pushed out of the RNC.

thanks to Trump, which was a peculiar thing to watch because Rana has been one of his

most prominent supporters around the 2020 election being fraudulent in their opinion. She established an election fraud committee at the RNC to make Trump happy. Exactly. She really has led the charge here. So when she was pushed out, she went on an NBC show and she denounced what she previously stated and pretty much said the election was real, Donald Trump is not right, and that she's on the different side of history. And then she gets hired.

And all of the on-air talent have now begun using the shows to push back at this because they're confused at why someone who has systematically created the environment in which we live in, which the election is seen as not real, would now be given a platform to talk about news and truth on their airways. And it also made a lot of folks at NBC feel like, oh, did y'all give her the deal after she changed her tune? Was it pay-to-play? Yeah.

Like, ugh, kind of messy. And that's what it felt like watching it because she's been such a staunch supporter of him on the cable network shows, defending him constantly. And then suddenly she does a turnabout. She's like, oh no, actually everything I've stood on for years isn't real. And thank you NBC for my six-figure check that you're writing me right now. $300,000 to be a contributor, yeah. It's offensive that someone in charge of news would...

empower someone like ronan mcdaniel in this way however i can't get that passionate about this and i know sam and i were talking about this in particular just the other day because it's cable news i mean the the 24 7 news cycle is a construct of what really the last 30 40 years and

that has in some ways directly led to Trump. Like you don't get Trump becoming the public figure he is without this broader infrastructure. And so of course it's offensive. And if I was at NBC, I would be pissed. And clearly they all are. I'm like Chuck Todd's wishy-washy ass was going off on Meet the Press for him. And I'm like, well, if he's speaking up, that says something. But it's also kind of like what I'm saying about

the broader government response to Trump, it's like the systems that maybe have not created Trump, empowered him to become this seemingly unstoppable national figure, cannot also be the systems that are going to stop him. And also, what we've seen is that

The same systems that in 2015 said forcefully he doesn't belong here. This isn't right. He can't be here. Now he is fully enmeshed in those very systems to the point where his lackeys are on the payroll. He has fully captured the political industrial complex, and it in some ways belongs to him.

And like what used to be a media that would kind of cover Trump and what he was doing as outlier, abnormal, not just, not fair. Now it feels like Trump is covered just kind of like, oh, yeah, that guy again. He's become such a part of the political fabric.

that there is no more alarm ringing over this man. There's no more alarm ringing. And what does that mean for the run-up to our election? It feels as if everything he does now is just accepted as commonplace. And, well, he's here. Yeah, it's increasingly clear that, and these actions didn't take place, but...

It's so clear that if there was going to be a moment of decisive accountability for Donald Trump, it needed to happen about 36 hours after January 6th. And if that did not happen, it's very clear that it's not going to happen. It meant that he won. Yeah. He won. Exactly.

I was going to just add that because we haven't done anything since 2020 and we've just allowed him not only to survive it, but thrive in the wake of the insurrection, we've now normalized all of these things that were so abnormal that are in many ways illegal and need to be prosecuted and explored in courts. We've now said that they're okay. And now we've set an incredibly dangerous precedent for this November and not even just this November, but this coming January when if Biden was to leave and Trump was to come

into office, the passing of power, what will that look like now under this new normal? This is the through line of all of this, this Trump era that we're still living in.

It's like it's been proven to us time and time again. If laws are not enforced, they're only norms and norms are optional. They're not mandatory. And we have seen a lot of things that we thought were mandatory about how you conduct yourself in a position of leadership. They've become norms and not laws and they're optional. And Trump just ignores them when he wants to. Listeners, let us know how you're feeling about this. Are you following this stuff?

How is this affecting you and your state of mind going into November, which is, dare I say, just around the corner? Let us know. Reach out. Vibecheck at Stitcher dot com. Vibecheck at Stitcher dot com. With that, I promise we will not say the word Trump anymore in this episode. It's done. All right. Time for a break. Stay with us.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.

All right, listeners, we're back. We're safe. The Beltway news cycle can't hurt us here. It can't hurt us. I feel like I'm doing ASMR. I'm whispering Trump. All right, we are going to talk about...

It does feel like you need to light a candle after you talk about that, man. Seriously. We are now going to talk about Gen Z and aging. As I said, this is a topic that I've kind of been privately – or not privately – group text level obsessing over for the last couple of weeks. On March 13th, I posted this to Blue Sky.

Okay, I have a question, and I truly mean no offense. Is it me, or are people in their early 20s increasingly looking like they are in their early 30s? I got all kinds of responses. But before I get to some of those sisters, have you noticed this? And listen, y'all live in, I would say, beauty capital USA, LA. So have you noticed this online? Have you noticed this just walking down the street?

Yes. L.A., I think, is the epicenter of this issue. Okay. Because...

Everyone, including teenagers, and we have the data to prove it, are exploring plastic surgical procedures. I'm really young. I mean, even Kylie Jenner herself, I think, began doing lip fillers in her teens. But because of this influx of surgery in LA, I would argue, everyone's kind of looking the same age in this really radical way that is really unsettling because I think everyone's a good 30 plus. And some of these kids are 20, and it's very weird. Yeah.

I will say spiritually, it feels like the kids are performing middle age. You know, they all talk about how they're anxious and scared and nervous on social media. And then when they do leave the house, they're socially awkward and can't look you in the eye. None of them, I feel like, are frolicking and touching grass and fucking the way we all did in our youth. They just feel tired and sad.

And that will aid you. Listen, when I was 22, I was in the club dressed in business casual posting 75 photos to Facebook. Getting my freak on. Girl. It was like the vest with the tie and then you'd be wearing jeans. Yes.

Business casual, baby. Business casual with like a bleach denim and like a plunging V-neck. Yeah. But it felt like when I was their age, we were out in these streets. And now I feel like a lot of Gen Z just performs not wanting to go outside.

And that will aid you. Well, okay, so this is interesting. So here's some of the responses I got. And this is just from Blue Sky. You know, people pointed out, and I think the three of us would agree to a certain extent, Gen Z is dealing with an unprecedented amount of stress. From them phones. From them phones, y'all. God, I cannot believe we are friends. It is like being friends with a 75-year-old. Like, how does this end? Phones? Love you. Love you. Love you.

Well, to the point of being outside, have you seen the few malls or like kind of public shopping areas that exist won't even allow young people to be there without parents? Have you seen this? Yeah, I know. I was talking to someone recently, a millennial, and this is going to get to the point I think we're going to, someone who's early 30s, and she was walking around with her husband.

in one of these malls in, I forget, Michigan, I think it was. And the security guard came up to her and I guess it was like adults only. And he was like, where's your ID? And she didn't have it. And she got kicked out of the mall because she looked too young. And she was like, how do I look too young? And it's because Gen Z kids and younger are looking older. And so these new policing of malls is becoming more difficult for youthful 30s and things that are walking around without their IDs. Wow.

And also, I mean, I'm going to play a TikTok that's pretty wild in a moment, but this just what you said just brought to mind

As three black people, listen, three black men in particular, we know firsthand the implications of being mistaken for being older than you are. It's not always fun and dangerous. Yeah. It can actually get very serious. But listeners, I wonder if you've seen this TikTok recently from user Chris Batista. He is 38 years old, which makes him a millennial like the three of us. And he responded to another user who was mocking him for being old. She was dragging. She was having a

good old time in her TikTok making fun of him. We'll play a clip and a part of it, and I'll let him explain the rub with her critique. I'm tripping out right now, and I'm not trying to be shady. I swear to God, I'm not trying to be shady. But when that video first started, I thought it was a fellow millennial sympathizing with what I was talking about. But when I looked on this person's profile, homegirl is 20 years old.

And this is like one of the first times I actually felt what other millennials were talking about, about Gen Z looking a little bit older for her age. And homegirl was like loud about her opinions. It was trying to like laugh at my expense. Don't want to be mean to her. Baby, baby girl, baby girl. Oh Jesus. Like you're pretty, you're beautiful. I'm not trying to like

tear you down or anything because looking older than your age isn't a bad thing and shouldn't be stigmatized by society but when you're like laughing at my expense about the way i look what do y'all think i'm of two minds on the one hand i really think any generation is wading into dangerous waters when they start to tell folks how old they look or don't look but on the other hand i'm

I think Gen Z in particular, the odds are just stacked against them. I remember when I was young, the beauty standard, the pinnacle was just like famous movie stars. Do you look like Julia Roberts? Do you look like Brad Pitt? Do you look like young Will Smith? And now everyone in Gen Z, their beauty standards are digitized. The beauty standard is the face the filter gives you, which is perfect and actually unattainable.

So I think part of why Gen Z is feeling like they look older is because they are comparing themselves more than any other previous generation to an unfair and unreal standard. Of course you look old when you compare your face to a filter. It's a filter, you know, and I feel bad for them.

And to add to that, something I was thinking about, I went on a walk this morning through LA to get inspired. I wanted to go see the youth as they were going to school, people walking to work. And what I started to realize is that since we've become older, there's been a complete collapse of a few institutions or a few systems that I think protected us and our youth from aging maybe too fast. Because of course we did things to age ourselves up. We are the first children of AOL and Sip Messenger. I was having convos with grown people.

We were obsessed with blogs. We were sharing our diaries. We did everything. But the big difference I've seen happen is through the introduction of technologies that are GPS-based, so Instagram, Snapchat, that take your world around you, and you have to

think of every place you go as a place to create content. So then you're thinking about filters, you're thinking about how you look, but also we've seen the collapse of celebrity. We grew up in an era where paparazzi existed because celebrities lived in LA and they would stage these photos going into certain restaurants and it felt so distant. But with TikTok and how everyone can become a star no matter where you're at, these young people are facing real pressures of, oh, I can become famous overnight and now I have to look a certain

way and becoming an influencer right now has outranked acting which used to be the number one most desired job influencers have become the number one desired job for young people you know what's wild so if i'm around young kids watching them play you know we used to play doctor we used to play teacher we used to play nurse these kids play influencer wow seven eight year olds

Cosplaying YouTube influencers. It's wild. It's what they see. They see us positioning that as aspirational. Yeah. And I think it has a lot to tie with, you know, the audience. They're having to think about the audience isn't just the kids in my class. Their audience is the kids online, the kids on TikTok and the algorithm. And what the best comp of what every Gen Z or even younger than Gen Z, Gen Alpha, are dealing with is what we see in these Disney star documentaries that are going viral.

viral. How those Disney stars had to become adults and deal with adult issues really quickly and age them up, people like Amanda Bynes, we're seeing this happen at scale with every young person who thinks that they should become a star on their own TikToks or social media. I do want to mention that by the nature of when we talk about

When the conversation about aging is specifically about faces, I think it's like the conversation becomes subversively coded as being about women and femmes. But I would say I've also seen this impact boys, people who present as masculine when we talk about bodybuilding, steroid usage. I mean, those bros.

It's a different version. It's a different manifestation, I think, of these pressures. But it's also interesting to see how male athletes, bodybuilders that are in their teens, early 20s, they themselves look different.

Like they're in their late 30s. They look like Chris Hemsworth prepping for Thor because they've grown up watching Chris Hemsworth play Thor. And this is the thing about men. You can always tell when they start taking human growth hormone, the kind of things that bulk the muscle, it also makes their bodies hold on to water weight so their faces get bigger and puffier and their necks get bigger and their cheeks get bigger and they just look older. They look older because there's like an artificial feeling of the face.

But yeah, this is, and one, let's call it what it is. It's body dysmorphia. We have a generation more than most others that has been affected at a very young age by body dysmorphia. The body they see does not look right to them. And no matter how hard they work, it doesn't look right to them. That's troubling. And I don't know what the fix is because it's like we continue to walk into this world where the ideal is computer generated. How do we change that? I don't know.

And to that point, I ironically saw this from a TikToker a couple of years ago, an American who was spending a great deal of time in South Korea where they were teaching.

And they learned and they compared over the few weeks. They did a little kind of experiment. If you buy a phone in South Korea with the SIM card, honey, it comes with a filter standard on its camera. Yeah. What? And that's TikTok now too. The default TikTok is to filter your face. Default. And this goes to the point of a New York Times article published over the weekend titled, Why Does Gen Z Believe It's Aging Like Milk? Yikes.

Wow. And again, that – and the article focuses on Gen Z themselves having this conversation. But this felt keen. This comes from Renee Eglin. She is a psychology professor at Northwestern University. She says, quote, there is a sense in which young people have forgotten what faces look like.

And the article, and this person continues, "Can we blame them?" And this is kind of what Sam and Zach, what you've both been saying, "Ginsey grew up endlessly scrolling through "idolized versions of their own faces "and the faces of others. "They've encountered more imagery of other people "with anti-aging cosmetic features, plastic surgery, "and fewer examples of faces that have naturally aged." So that's certainly part of this. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And to bring it back to the joke I made earlier,

these kids are not doing themselves any favors by dressing in y2k core baby that is not youthifying it's not it's not and where i would defend them because i understand why they're doing it some of it looks good some of these girls look amazing but it's because before social media really blew up fashion cycles went by a 20-year rule so you would take 20 years for something that was popular in the 50s to come back then in the 70s and the 90s so on and so forth what

What we've seen, especially since 2019, is a collapse of all fashion cycles. And we now live in a world in which certain jeans from the 90s are in and being mixed with shoes like loafers from the 50s. And it's this blending of all because we have such a massive access to every type of fashion. And these young people are very creative and they're blending it all together. But we as millennials are like,

Ugg boots? That was my high school. And my high school time was not that long ago. And now you're wearing them. So, you know, there isn't as much distance as when we were growing up. I remember my grandparents being like, oh, I wore that when I was a kid. And that felt cool. It was like vintage. Now vintage means, you know, 15 years ago. And it's why Mean Girls, the movie, looks the same. Like it all looks the same. And that's the problem.

And to wrap, I mean, because, and this really, this isn't from a place of judgment. I think it's interesting. And I think, you know, we can all learn as we've seen over the course of this conversation, we're talking as much about Gen Z and young people as we're talking about ourselves. I think it's possible to have a self-aware and productive conversation about aging because we are aging too. And I think it's worthwhile thinking about.

But I would be remiss if I didn't point this out. And this is just like we just have to say this if we're talking about aging. This goes to Blue Sky user Dio who was like, you know, because everyone's talking about all of these other reasons. And I think they all probably are related. But he was like, I think the main difference is that we as millennials in our generation, we eliminated smoking for a generation. That was a big difference. And now it's come back via vaping.

which is very popular, particularly among Gen Z. Dr. T.N. Rekasingh, a dermatologist in the UK, points out vaping involves breathing in and breathing out aerosolized liquid, which contains harsh chemicals, including nicotine, propylene glycol, and vegetable glycerin. And just one example, specifically, she points out nicotine tightens blood vessels in the skin's outermost layers. This reduces blood flow,

carrying oxygen and nutrients to the skin. And this especially impacts the skin around the eyes and the mouth. So listen, Gen Z, if you like it, I love it. But if you do feel that you are aging in a way that makes you uncomfortable, and I think this is true for all of us, if something feels out of sync and you realize that, for example, you are vaping, that is one very easy decision that you can make to change that will have a clear impact on how you appear in film.

Also, don't take retinol before you're 35. Some of these kids out here, that's heavy. Chemicals. Yeah. Come on now. It's wild. I feel like it's like instead of marketing to kids, preteens and teenagers, and this really isn't even a Gen Z thing we're talking about now. Instead of getting them to spend all their money on toys and posters, it feels like marketers are like, spend your money on this skincare. Yeah.

Yeah, because now we have these young people who are going to Sephora. And I'm like, where did Claire's go? Where did these young people's stores go? Everyone's going to the adult stores. Go pierce something. Yeah. Go pierce something and go make out behind the bleachers. Oh, my God. Go get a Ouija board. Go have fun. Oh, my gosh.

Well, we will leave it there for now. I can feel Sam was about to say, don't get me started. So let's just wrap it up. Whenever I say don't get me started, what I want you to do is get me started. Get him started. But listeners, what do you think? Because again, this is a really interesting conversation. One of you mentioned the book Flawless. Who's that author? Elise Hu, a good friend of mine, former NPR colleague, wrote a book all about how

digital culture, particularly South Korean culture, has totally effed up our beauty standards across the globe. We are in literally a world that South Korea created, and it's a wild, wild west. Wow. So, you know, listeners, if you've read Flawless, let us know your thoughts. Are you thinking about this? Are the three of us, are you like, listen, y'all are three cis gay men, shut the fuck up. I'm giving you an invitation to tell me to shut the fuck up if you feel that's fair, but you gotta make your point.

I'm giving listeners an invitation to write and say how good our skin looks, baby. Would love that. They'd be like, you know what? Of all the podcast hosts. Just glowing, mama. Thanks for audio, baby. Glowing. Okay, we'll take a break. Don't get me started. Oh, my gosh. I saw it. I was like, he's getting started. He's getting started. I'm getting started.

Do you know that the original lyrics to the Black Eyed Peas song, Let's Get It Started, were, let's get retarded. And they had to change it. I did know that. I did know that. I think I did know that and I made myself forget. God, the 2000s were awful. Oh, the 2000s were awful. Oh, the 2000s were awful.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

Hear that? Yeah, that's the sound of you relaxing because now you're managing diabetes with the Freestyle Libre 3 system. You get to know your glucose levels and where it's headed. Manage your diabetes with more confidence with the Freestyle Libre 3 system. Ready to learn more about the number one prescribed CGM in the U.S.? Visit FreestyleLibre.us to learn more. Based on retail sales data for patients' last full prescription by manufacturer. Refer to the FLARE NL4 study published in BMJ Open Diabetes Research and Care 2019. Safety info found at FreestyleLibre.us. ♪

All right, listeners, we are back. Before we end the show, we'd like to do what we love to do each week, which is tell you what's keeping our vibes right this week. And to get us going, I want to go to Sam Sanders. Okay, I will tell y'all what I am enjoying right now. And it is...

A nice little band that you can put on just to set the vibes. Every song of theirs gives you the same kind of energy. It feels like a desert sunset and incense and birds in the background. This is a band that's been around for a long time. They're called Krungbin. It's spelled K-H-R-U-A-N-G-B-I-N.

I've been listening to them for years. They're a trio out of Houston that does really psychedelic, kind of smooth, mostly instrumental rock. And it's just wonderful vibe music. They put out a whole album actually with Leon Bridges singing over their guitars. And that is even more vibey. But it's perfect for road trips. It's perfect for cleaning the house. It's perfect for just chilling. And I've been playing them nonstop.

The last several days while I was out in the desert and I'm still playing them here. And what's fun about them, once you listen to all of Krongbin, all their albums have that similar vibe. Once you're done with that, you can just go to like Krongbin radio on Spotify or whatever. And it gives you more like that. Just immaculate vibes. Immaculate vibes. Yeah. Their latest album, and they're all really good, but their latest album is called...

Ali from 2022, but they have a bunch of stuff. Check them out if you want to just vibe and chill. This is kind of in the similar vein of my recommendation last week of Kacey Musgraves' new album, Chill Vibes. More of that. I know Saeed wasn't too much in love with it, but I'm in a Chill Vibes place right now, and this has given me that. This recommendation's a little more compelling. I tried to listen to Kacey's album. I couldn't get by the way Homegirl sings the word cardinal.

Cardinal. Cardinal. Cardinal. I was like, girl, Casey, I thought I was supposed to be relaxing. Casey. Wow. Take me deeper into the well, I guess. Anywho, listeners, if you're liking these chill vibes of my music recommendations, send me some more recommendations for more chill stuff. I like it chill right now. Chill. All right. Well, Saeed, what's your rec? Is it chill? Is it a chill poem? It's not. It's a very chaotic poem.

So I'm excited about this book. So this is from an anthology, Best American Poetry 2012, edited by Mark Doty. I actually got this at a bookstore, a used bookstore in Buenos Aires last August. And I love going to used bookstores when I'm traveling and seeing what I can find. And this poem is by Juliana Baggett. And I like it because...

You know, I think being a mom, being a parent, giving birth, raising a newborn, it's like physiologically, it's like black metal. It's rough. It is, you know,

I was talking to a friend of mine who has a newborn and she was stressing out because the kid's not sleeping. So like she can't sleep. And I was like, how is it? And she goes, Sam, I've lost my sense of self. Yeah. I don't know who I am anymore. It's just the baby. It's pretty crazy. And, you know, we kind of drape it in all these like pastel. Oh, the beauty of being a mother. You know, but it's like, no, this is pretty a pretty wild experience for the parent and the kid. And so this poem by Juliana Baggett is titled For Furious Nursing Baby.

Frothy and pink as a rabid pig, you a mauler, a lunatic stricken with a madness induced by flesh squeezed my skin until blotched, nicked. Your fingernails are jagged and mouth slick. Pinprick scabs jewel my breasts. Your tongue, your wisest muscle, is the wet engine of discontent.

Itself fastens by a purse bead of spit while your elegant hands flail, conducting orchestral milk and sometimes prime the pump. Nipple in mouth, nipple in hand, you have your cake and eat it too. Then when wrenched loose, you'll eat sorrow, loss. One flexed hand twists as you open your mouth.

To eat your fist. Babies are cute, but they're also parasites. They're parasites. It's an intense experience. That's Four Furious Nursing Baby by Juliana Baggett. I love her posing. And I love, it's like, yeah, it's visceral. Like, it's just, you feel it. You feel the pinpricks and the pinches. And, you know, it's beautiful. But it's also just like, as you said for your friend, like at best, an overwhelming experience for the parent and their body. Yeah.

My favorite sentence from the poem, your tongue, your wisest muscle, is the wet engine of discontent. I don't want no more kids. I don't want no more kids. I don't want no more kids. I mean, I take that back. You have two dog babies. My two dog babies are enough because they don't nurse.

Well, Zach, okay, we've got a calm recommendation from Sam, a traumatizing recommendation from me. What's your recommendation? I have an edible recommendation. Oh. Edible, yes. So not edibles as in weed, but edible as in a dessert. Girl, stop playing games. I can see you guys got really excited. It's not 420 yet. That's in a month. Okay.

I am the biggest victim to TikTok ads for new products. I will buy them. It works. Patespin works on me, I'm sorry to say. And something that has come across my TikTok, and it's huge on TikTok right now, is a new product called Alpha Prime Bites. They're brownies. Have you all seen this on TikTok?

So there are protein brownies. Not weed brownies. Not weed brownies. These are just protein brownies. They got 19 grams of protein, five grams of collagen. It's like deep in like food, health, TikTok. And they are everywhere. What's it called again? It's called...

Alpha Prime Bites. They're brownies. And they come in a bunch of different flavors. There's a cookie dough. There's a chocolate donut, which is my favorite. There's a cinnamon roll. And I tried them last night for the first time. I ordered them. No one's paying me to say this. I bought them with my own money. And you warm them up for 15 seconds. And my God, it was one of the best brownies I've ever had in my life. So looking for a fun treat. I know it's spring and people are on their fitness tip.

Buy these. They got great macros. I highly recommend them. Not great macros. Girl. Listen, we were talking about Gen Z and youth. I'd be running for my life to get away from that TikTok shop. So I don't know nothing about this, honey. It was my first time buying from TikTok shop. It was actually a seamless process. Go TikTok. All right.

Well, listeners, what are you feeling or not feeling this week? Do you like the protein brownies? Do you have protein brownie recipes you want to share with me, actually? Send them. Do you have actual edible recommendations? Because clearly Sam and Saeed are like, we're disappointed. Send all of it. Send all of it to us at vibecheckatstitcher.com. And with that, that's our show. That's the show. Thank you. Thank you for listening to us in this rollercoaster of a...

of a show today. A lot of colors to this episode. I mean, we started with the bridge collapse. We started there. That's true. Truly a journey. I told you not to watch that video until after we recorded it. You mentioned it right before I hit record. You mentioned it right before I hit record. Anywho. Well, we made it through. We made it through.

Listeners, thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platform, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, and leave a review. And most importantly, tell your friends. Tell all of them.

Huge thank you to our producer, Chantel Holder, engineer Rich Garcia, and Marcus Holm for our theme music and sound design. Also, special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda. And special shout out to Nora because she's in L.A. this week. Yeah.

And yesterday she took me and Zach and Brandon out for drinks and dinner at this wonderful, beautiful rooftop. Nora, you're the hostess with the mostest. Thanks for being so nice to us. It was great to hang. I love that. We'll have to have a reunion soon.

Yes. Okay, and listeners, don't forget, we want to hear from you. You can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com and keep in touch with us on Instagram. And like I said, I'm also on the Blue Sky over there, Cosmostruck. It's like they're paying you. It's like they're paying you the way you'd be plugging Blue Sky. Oh, did I tell y'all? Someone had to send it to me. They actually used one of my posts in like a Blue Sky ad. Lord Jesus. Oh, no. You better get some ducats out of that. Oh, no.

Get some coin, my bro. Get some coin. Anyway, in the meantime, my bro, Jesus Christ. In the meantime, you can keep in touch with us on Instagram, backstab, at Sam Sanders and at The Ferocity. Stay tuned for our Beyonce episode. Look, we had to go through the rough and tumble of this episode because next week, it's just, it's Beyonce. The mountaintop. We're going to the mountaintop. See you then. Bye.

Bye, my bros. It's time to begin. When I call you my bro, it means I love you. My bro.

Because of Love is Blind, I tested out in the privacy of my home using the word man in a sentence. You know how they're like, yeah, man, I shuddered. I shuddered. You feel it in the body. You feel it in the body. Leave it in. Leave it in. Leave it in, my bro Nora. Leave it in. Bye, y'all. Stitcher. At Amica Insurance, we know it's more than just a car.

It's the two-door coupe that was there for your first drive, the hatchback that took you cross-country and back, and the minivan that tackles the weekly carpool. For the cars you couldn't live without, trust Amica Auto Insurance. Amica. Empathy is our best policy.

Yeah, it's another day, but what kind of day is it really? A day of doom scrolling? Laundry day? Nah, it's a White Claw day. Light and refreshing tasting. Uniquely cold-weight filtering. There's an iconic flavor for everyone. So grab a pack, grab your friends. Make the most of each day with those who matter most. When you're together with White Claw, every day is a once-in-a-lifetime experience. You just gotta grab it. White Claw. Grab life by the claw. Please drink responsibly. Hearts also with flavors. White Claws also works Chicago, Illinois.