Trust The Aunties
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Hey, listeners, reminder, our summer tour kicks off this week. I'm so ready for it. I took my clothes to the cleaners this morning to be ready for y'all. The J.Crew factory suit is about to be pressed. You and that damn J.Crew factory suit. Yo, it saved me in a crisis.

Anywho, we'll be in Boston this Friday at the WBUR City Space. There are only a handful of tickets left, so hurry up and get your seats. There'll also be a live stream of the show. Tickets for both are in our show notes, and it's going to be a really great show.

And WBUR is where I got my start in radio many, many years ago. I'm excited to go back to Boston. Love the folks at WBUR. Also, Zach and I are a fan of the Mexican restaurant right next door. So before the show, if you walk in there, you're going to see the three of us having margaritas. I'm not saying it's like an official pre-party invitation, but I know where I will be.

You know what I mean? But then after the Boston show, we are heading to New York City this Sunday, June 9th. We will be at the Tribeca Audio Festival with very special guest, Lena Waithe. We're excited to talk about storytelling, representation in media, all of the incredible work she's been doing as a producer and writer. And for our lovely supporters on Patreon, we, of course, have a special coupon code just for you and details about an afterparty.

That's very exciting. At patreon.com slash vibe check.

Yes. And then we're coming to Los Angeles, my hometown, I guess now. And that will be on Sunday, July 14th at the Ford in Hollywood. More details coming on that show soon as well. But we're going to have a great time. So come hang out with us and see us live. It's always the Kiki. Plus, it's fun seeing all of you that listen to the show meet each other and make new best friends. Tickets for all three shows are on sale now. You can find the links in our show notes. See you soon.

Hello, my ladies. Hello, my pride princesses. It's here. Pride and princesses. Talk about a PP. Pride princesses. I am Sam Sanders wrapped in a rainbow. I'm Saeed Jones. I'm serving the hours by Michael Cunningham this month of June. That's my vibe. Oh, my gosh. And I'm Zach Safford, your pride hangover. And you're listening to Vibe Check. Vibe Check.

Friends, this week we are talking about why so many music fans are getting what's basically the worst news when you're excited to see one of your favorite music acts, shows, and in some cases, entire summer tours from artists like J-Lo, The Black Keys, Busta Rhymes, and more have been canceled. And in some cases, it seems kind of at the last minute.

Yikes. Oh, that is so frustrating. So we're going to talk about what's going on, who's to blame, Ticketmaster, Ticketmaster, Ticketmaster, and maybe the big picture on all of that. And as Sam said, ready or not, here it comes. It's Pride Month. It's going to find you. Okay, you know. Not Lauren. I had to give you a little Laurence.

I had to give you just a touch, a little taste. And, you know, this has become, I guess, a bit of a tradition on the podcast. We use the first week in June to talk about the state of pride, the protests, the parties, the corporations, how it feels. Are we excited? Are we stressed or anxious? A lot to get into. But before, of course, we get into those two conversations, let's check in with each other. My girls, how are you feeling? Sam, how are you doing?

I'm doing well. Patreon followers saw some photos we posted. Zach, because he works magic...

He got us into We Hope Ride for free. And before I know it, we're backstage and then right in front of the stage as Kylie Minogue performs. And it was delightful. You know, I like Kylie. We've talked about Badam and how I don't like that song, but I love her. She gives a good show and she's just so bubbly and full of niceness and life. It makes you happy. So that was like my vibe this weekend. But in general, my vibe the last week or so is screen time.

I have been watching my phone and looking at my screen time tracker just to monitor how much time I'm on my phone. And, you know, we live our lives online. Social media is a big part of our friendships and our lives and our work. But I want it a little bit less for a while. So I've managed to get my screen time down from an average of eight or nine hours a day to like four or five. Oh, that is... Wow. Yeah. I don't know if I'll keep it up, but it feels good for now. And what I've done...

I was talking to a good friend over the weekend who was in the same spot. And I was like, what if we just try an Instagram fast on Monday?

We keep ourselves accountable and see how it goes. I did not do Instagram this Monday, and I was fine. And it felt pretty good. I'm not leaving these apps. I'm not leaving social media. I love to connect with people there. But it was really nice to just do less phone for a bit. So the vibe this week is screen time. Feels good. Yeah, wait. We might have buried the lead. So it sounds like...

One day a week, and I like this. This is very practical. One day a week, you and your friend, your accountability buddy, take a break from specifically the Instagram app.

Sam, are you telling me that that one day alone accounted for four hours of screen time? No. Oh, yes. In one day. So like, so some days it does. But basically, I've been trying to taper off the last week or so. And then yesterday I did no Instagram and also no TikTok. And that and my screen time yesterday was just under four hours. Okay.

Wow. So I don't want to go up these apps forever because I love to connect with folks there. But I do think I want to keep up the fast of one day a week. We'll see. That feels doable. That feels doable. Like a little reset. A daily reset. Zach, how are you doing? I'm okay. I've been dealing with some personal things that are just

And I've talked to you guys a bit about it. One thing that people saw on social media, I did a book a few years ago. A friend of mine that was in the book sadly passed away as I was supposed to talk to her that day about the book.

And then another version of that happened last night with my barber. My barber passed away. I'm so sorry. Oh my God, I'm so sorry. And it's just been like this really, yeah, it's just been this really weird, and this is something for like a later episode, but there's something about when you lose someone that you're not,

best friends with, a family member. There's someone that's like in your life that's part of like the texture of your day and they go and you, it's like, it's definitely that saying of you don't know what you have until it's gone. Because you don't really think about like, I love my barber. I go once a week. But, you know, how do you, how do you deal with that type of loss that isn't super intimate? I don't know his family like that or nothing. So it's been interesting. So it's had me thinking a lot about like relationships and community and then all ties to pride a lot.

And like, how do we take care of each other? How do we check in on each other? Especially the people that are like in the background of your life. And how do we make sure we don't forget those people too? I've read a bit about that, you know, obviously in learning more about grief. I'm sure Sam has as well. And yeah, it's, you know, people will say, you know,

second grade teacher that they haven't been in touch with since the time and then they find out that teacher has passed away and it's a surprisingly long tale like the lingering grief. Yeah, it's kind of the...

I don't know. It's like it's second tier, third tier kind of grief that you... I think what makes it difficult is because it's like a cognitive dissonance. You're sad, but then you feel like you shouldn't be sad or this sad because you didn't know the person that well. Yes. It prolongs the feeling. This is a thing that I found a few years ago. Someone smarter than me told me this, but they said that emotional memory...

lingers much longer than the moment does. And so if you had a good interaction with your barber and you love that moment, 10 years from now, you might feel that emotion just as strongly, even if you weren't that close to him. So the emotional memory is a thing where it's like, yeah, the second grade teacher being nice to you in second grade,

It feels like it happened yesterday when they pass or something. It lingers. So yeah, don't feel guilty for feeling sad about these looser connections because emotional memory is strong even with loose connections. I love that term emotional memory and I'm going to carry that with me through this. So thank you for that.

Because for contacts with this barber, we also worked out together. We met at the gym. And he started cutting my hair. So he was a person and he was a straight guy. He was like the straight Latino guy. He's very machismo. But he and I got along. We were girlfriends. And I appreciated that relationship with this guy who was not very, we weren't very similar. But he was a part of a lot of memories. Like before I went on one of my first dates in LA with Craig, I got my hair cut with him.

And then I worked out. It's just like all these things. I love that, Sam. Thank you for that. Because that helps understand a lot of relationships we have. That there's an emotional memory tied to things. And that's why we grieve them. Well, thank you both. I began this episode being like, I'm not going to say it. I'm not going to say it. No, let it out. Let it out. Let it out. Yeah. Let it out. Well, Saeed, how are you doing? I'm good. I'm good. Over the weekend, something...

- Odd happened. If you follow me on Blue Sky where I, listen, I'm having a hoot. - That's where Blue Sky is paying you. - With my little blue skis, my little blue skis, that's what I call them. I live tweet, I've got back into live tweeting stuff. I live tweeted Godzilla minus one. It's an excellent movie. - I hear it's great. You liked it. - Oh, it's so good. I think it is the best monster movie I have ever seen. - Is it on Netflix now? - It is. It is. - Okay, I'm gonna check it out. - It is. It's so thoughtful. But over the weekend,

Just after midnight, Saturday into Sunday, everyone's out in my neighborhood, bars, da-da-da-da, and I'm getting ready for bed. And I'm just standing in my living room, and suddenly I have a lot of neon signs and stuff. Mm-hmm.

I have a hot pink boys, boys, boys sign. Okay. That's really fun. And I have some hot lips over here in my office. And they went out. That was the first thing I saw. I was like, when did y'all went out? What happened? And then I realized that really several buildings near me, the power had gone out. It was out for like 16 hours. And you were telling us that like...

your whole building is like keyless entry. So the keys were messed up? That would have freaked me out. I'm in a keyless, like all of that. Yeah. And the reason I mentioned blue sky is because I've been kind of keeping tap on the phenomenon of drivers in Columbus driving into buildings. It happens way too frequently. I don't know if it's a drunk driving phenomenon, but sometimes it'll be like two occurrences in a day. I find it very odd. And as I eventually learned,

Just after midnight, I think someone who was inebriated drove into some kind of pole, electricity pole, and knocked out power on the block. And so, you know, this person out there, I hope you get your healing. But first of all, I hope you get fucked because I'm going to have to throw out – I'm going to have to throw out –

Basically everything that was in my refrigerator, including my beloved corndogs, because, you know, the refrigerator was out of power for 16 hours. By the way, wait, can we circle before we wrap on this? Saeed Jones, I think you inspired Craig on hot on corndogs in the house. And let me tell you, thank you. It is a blessing to come home from a pride festival hungry and be like, what am I having? A corndog.

It's such a gift. Anyway, before we get into this episode, we want to thank all of you who have sent us fan mail and a special shout out to those who subscribe to our Patreon, which is quite the key key. And you girls must have the notifications on because we post something and it's like immediate.

response, chat, go. It's amazing. I love it. It does feel like a real group chat. So we're not just bullshitting all with this. It is like real time group chat. It's wonderful. So if you'd like to join that group chat, you can find us at patreon.com slash vibe check.

And with that, shall we jump into today's episode, ladies? Just before we get back on the Patreon of it all. One, I have a playlist on the Patreon for y'all to enjoy. Two, I keep hearing from listeners who are like, how do you not know how to say Patreon? Here's a little secret.

I do. I like to say it wrong. It's a little bit. I love y'all listeners, but do you think I just fell out of a coconut tree? No, I exist within the context of all the came before me. Kamala, Kamala, you did just fall out of that coconut tree. I exist within the context of all the came before me. Let's chat about mispronouncing words on purpose on the Patreon. Thank you. I say release the NPR in your mind, listeners. Yeah.

Well, with that, let's talk about music. Yes, yes, yes. ♪

All right. First up, as Saeed alluded to, we're going to talk a little bit about what is going on with concerts and tours right now. Y'all know we here at Vibe Check love a good tour, especially when Beyonce is doing one. But this summer, we are seeing a lot of tours get canceled. J.Lo announced last week that she is canceling her 2024 tour. The Black Keys recently ditched a big stadium tour for a series of shows at smaller venues.

3.11, which real ones know, they've canceled some European tour dates over rising costs. Pink and Justin Timberlake have canceled dates. Even the Jonas Brothers have pushed back their European tour. We're going to talk about the reasons why this is happening right now. But first, just a hypothetical for both of you, Zach and Saeed.

If you bought a ticket to see your favorite artist and you bought airplane tickets, maybe in hotel rooms and got time off, how pissed would you be if your artist just up and canceled after they'd already booked the venues and sold you tickets and promised you a good show?

Beyond. Because this happened with Nicki Minaj the other day in England, right? Oh. Yeah. I saw this on TikTok. Can't relate, but go on. I mean, I wasn't, you know. I have nothing against the Barbz. I mean, I have things I can say about the Barbz, but the Barbz of England went to a show. She couldn't make it because she got stuck due to that alleged drug thing. She didn't get stuck. She got arrested. She was arrested on drug charges. Oh, she got charged. She was stuck in traffic. Go on. As Saeed said, to get arrested for drugs in Amsterdam, you must have had a lot. Is...

Yeah. So anyway, beyond the Nicki Minaj, just of it all, all I thought was, holy shit, if this had happened to us with Beyonce in London, I don't know how I would have dealt with that. Because, you know, when you travel somewhere, you take time off of work. I left a wedding to go to Beyonce. I put my relationship on the line. You left Italy to join us for Beyonce. I left Italy for Beyonce. I left my man in Italy. So if she had canceled, I would have been beside myself. So, yeah, I mean, we...

These are luxuries to be able to do this. And it's not just money, but it's time. It's mental health. There's a lot of things. So to have it change is awful. And then to find out it has... With Nikki's case, it was kind of related to what she chose to do that day. But most of the time, it's some other related issues. Yeah. And just to add, I would be devastated. And then we're going to talk about how the increasing burden we're placing on these...

concerts in terms of what they mean, in terms of the sentimental value. But for example, when we went to see Beyonce last June in London, obviously I'm a big fan and I was so excited, but also my dog had passed away about six weeks before. And I remember when he was sick and we're going in and out of the vet and I mean, it was crisis after crisis after crisis. And then I'm just alone in grief. Mm-hmm.

calendar item, I remember I would look at it. I would focus on it. And I'd be like, there's something to look forward to. And that's going to be not just your joy, but your opportunity to reset sight. You just got to get there. So yeah, I think I wouldn't just, I wouldn't be pissed. I actually would be very sad. I get that. I imagine a lot of people have a similar experience. For sure.

Let's talk about the reasons this is happening, all these cancellations this year. So there's a really great story from NBC News that lays a lot of this out. We'll share it in our show notes. But in terms of reasons, for starters, and we've all felt this, ticket prices have gotten really, really high. Zach will talk about the Ticketmaster Live Nation of it all in a bit. But that's happening. And also, and this is what I want to get y'all's take on.

experts are saying that we're going through a moment of tour fatigue. A lot of us went hard on Taylor's tour last year, Beyonce's tour last year, even Drake's tour for those who did that. And that summer of 23 felt like a lot of folks' first big summer back outside after pandemic lockdown during the peak of the pandemic.

And so this summer, a lot of artists are trying to follow Beyonce and Taylor's lead, but consumers are a little tapped out because they were touring the hell out of us last year. I wonder, do y'all buy that, this idea of tour fatigue and the back outside comedown?

So I've been thinking about this. I think something else is at play. Yeah. I don't think that it's necessarily that other artists were like trying to chase the comet of Beyonce, Harry Styles, what was Lizzo and Beyonce and Taylor Swift. Those were like the big four acts.

I think it is that those four acts, those four A-list music acts, were the only people who had the means, right as the pandemic was entering that new phase, to be able to afford to organize a tour that quickly.

quickly right it was still very expensive all of the the covid protocols they had to interact bringing people together after what two years yeah of no tours so I'm it's it's almost like um like when you're at the airport and it's like a bunch of planes are trying to take off those four planes were able to get their shit together yeah

first. But now there are 10 other planes that weren't able to get organized as quickly with lower budgets. And now we're seeing the, the, yeah, the lower budgets. And this is a thing like Beyonce's tour. Those who saw the film on the tour, um,

She had three of the big stage setups and they would travel ahead of time to be ready when she got to where she was going. And there were like dozens of staff just to build the screen at every venue, like the expenditure and time and talent needed to do something big like that. Yeah, you're right. So not everybody can do it.

Yeah. And also, you know, what I keep thinking about with this kind of deluge of concerts and albums dropping too, I think Sabrina Carpenter announced a new album today. Normani has one coming out. Like you pointed at a pop girl. Oh, Normani. Oh, Normani. I wanted to be her moment. I know. I really do. Dopamine, please be the moment. But, you know, the reason why a lot of them are rushing to tour is because that's how these artists make their money.

streaming services like Spotify have really cut into revenues that were already challenging for artists unless they were, you know, top 10 charting artists. It was really hard to make money, especially if you didn't write your music. Look at the Whitney Houston estate. Whitney Houston struggled with money because she didn't write her own music because she didn't participate in revenue in the same way. So concerts are how they make all their money in merch.

They had a few years of not being able to get that money. So people like Beyonce, whose album had been done, has been done for years, was like, baby, I can sit in this house, think through production, and I have the capital on hand, and I can just press go. Similar to Taylor Swift, who was also releasing albums in the pandemic because she has her own studio and her own producers. So you're exactly right, Sam and Saeed, that we're seeing the most capitalized, the most wealthy being able to move through this. And they got out first. And now they're, I mean, there's not,

This is not a coincidence that Beyonce hasn't announced a Cowboy Carter tour at all. She sees what's happening around the world. These concerts are struggling. And she's like, well, I made all my money last year, so let me take my sweet time. But other artists can't afford to take their time. Also, mind you, we have to remember how advances work for record labels, right?

Listen, as someone who writes books and I make my money from public speaking engagements and all that kind of stuff, the pandemic was absolutely devastating not being able to do these events. I mean, at one point, I think I watched about $90,000 disappear in about a week. I had to stop looking at my email in March of 2020 because every time I did, it was like another check just disappearing. That is devastating for me. But musicians...

When they get record deals, they're in debt to the record labels. So they have spent the last, what, four years not just not making money, but the tab that they have owed their record labels has increased. So I just want to extend empathy. These musicians aren't greedy. They're not like trend chasers. They're like, we've got to get out there. Yeah, and what looms over all of this, and Zach alluded to it, when we were in high school, we would go buy a new album

for like 20 bucks and a good chunk of that money went to the artists. Now, if you stream your favorite artists album 10 or 15 times, they're getting a few pennies from you. If that it's just changed the formula. So they have to rely on tours and merge more, but I want to have us address the big elephant in the room with all of this before we leave this segment, part of why the ticket prices are so high for these tours is because of

of the Live Nation ticket master kind of monopoly of it all. It's gotten so bad, the feds are investigating. Zach, what's going on with all this? It's such a mess. And if everyone remembers correctly, this is all happening because Taylor Swift put her fans on the case. And her fans have demanded that...

Live Nation be broken up? And honestly, they should be. You know, what they're being charged with by the DOJ currently is that they're a monopoly and the monopoly is because they merged with Ticketmaster. So Live Nation and Ticketmaster were huge music industry businesses that helped with your concert experience. They now have become one entity through a historic merger. And why this is really important and why they're able to now

like run the table is because Ticketmaster, if people don't remember, some of you are probably too young to remember this, but there was a time where you bought your tickets at like your local grocery store, at the concert venue itself. In the 90s, Ticketmaster was like, hmm, girls, this internet, we should start selling them there and going ticketless. Mm-hmm.

So they built the systems that created the ability to really scale out ticket buying, which then they started adding fees and they control the fees. So that's why when your ticket is 25 bucks and then suddenly goes to 50 bucks, that's Ticketmaster doing that. Now Live Nation, who runs the concerts, merged it all together. So they're all just upping the ante and taking all the money on everything.

on every side of it. And here's the thing. Live Nation also manages artists. Yeah. And then sometimes Live Nation Ticketmaster owns the venue. So there are some situations for artists where they are managed by Live Nation Ticketmaster. Live Nation Ticketmaster sells the concert tickets and Live Nation Ticketmaster owns the concert venue. Yeah.

This is monopolistic. And what we know, and I know this just through conversations in LA, is that Live Nation can then decide to pull your concert if it isn't selling at certain rates because they own the venues, they own the ticketing service. So you, J-Lo, there's been mixed reporting on how well her concert was selling, but I saw one that said 70% of seats were sold in most venues. That's pretty good. You look at an arena, 70%, that's great. A Live Nation can come in and say, that's not good enough, girl. You have a C-minus.

you're canceled. And she can't really stop that that much because she doesn't own the venue. So, you know, artists don't have enough power here. And that's why, you know, Taylor Swift joined with her fans to be like, both of us are being disadvantaged in this system and we need to push back. And now it's actually happening thanks to the DOJ. Mm-hmm.

it's really striking because one of the interesting geographic features of columbus is that for a long time columbus was a great um music city because of its proximity to so many other major cities like if you're touring you know via bus

and all the kind of hitting small or medium-sized venues. If you make it to Columbus, you've got Nashville, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Detroit, all kinds of other major cities within close proximity. And so there was actually a really great music scene here for years and years and years, and it's disappeared. And I think it has a lot to do with Ticketmaster and Live Nation because part of what Zach was saying applies here. Ticketmaster Live Nation does not want...

groups performing in small venues. They want to drive their artists towards stadiums. They want the biggest venues possible. And so it's just like a double bind. It's like, so this is terrible for the independent music scene, for the small bars where you just see like someone sitting with a guitar and you find your new favorite artist and you knew them before they were a big deal. But also it's like you're saying, setting up

an impossible burden for artists where they're like, everybody's not going to be able to settle at the stadium. Sorry. And that doesn't mean you're not a good musician. Yeah. I want us to close this segment by kind of talking hypothetically how this new touring concert environment affects how much we'll spend and whether we'll go see our favorite artists.

I loved the Renaissance tour. I saw it four times last year, two times abroad. I'm not sure if Beyonce went on tour for Cowboy Carter that I would go. It's going to be expensive. It's going to be a lot. And I'm in a point now where I, even loving the tours I went to last year, have a little bit of tour fatigue. So I'm saying on a microphone right now, I don't think I would see Beyonce next tour unless

Have y'all faced the same dilemma? Maybe where you're just like, I'm not doing as many concerts for the next year or two because come on now.

I have to say, Sam, if this was a movie, this is when we would cut to six months later and you're at a Beyonce concert. I would think of like the Spongebob. That's all when you said that. I was like six months later. I've seen Beyonce five times. She has gotten so much of my money. Beyonce, you know, I love you, but you have to give back to me.

You don't have to give that to me. Beehive, you have just gotten one extra ticket because Sam Sanders is not going. Enjoy. And listen, Beehive, by all means, stay your ass home. Yeah, I mean, I will say there has certainly been an impact. I love Beyonce. And it's also, I will say, it's not just...

It's not just how expensive Beyonce tickets, it's also the caliber of performance. Like now, because Beyonce is, I've seen Beyonce and Janelle Monae are the two artists that I've seen in concert the most. The idea of what feels appropriate for me to spend that money is so high. The bar is high. Even artists I love don't quite cross that threshold. I would say the only artists, and this is actually big for me because this is hip hop,

The only artist who has recently crossed the threshold where I was like, actually, I would put out a lot of money to see him live as Kendrick Lamar. Oh, yeah. Zach, what about you? I...

I grew up in Nashville. I love live music. I will always love live music. I love seeing artists on a stage. So this hasn't impacted me as much, but I am smarter with what I'm deciding to do, specifically with like the big arena tours. Those are the really expensive ones. I love, and Sam, you share this love too. I love seeing artists in like little venues. And that is a privilege of,

LA. Like LA, a lot of artists just stop by and do a night somewhere. So I just keep my eyes lasered on that and go to those shows as much as I can. And then the big ones I do save for things that I've been waiting for. So one that I'm waiting and desperate to happen is the Rihanna tour whenever she releases that album.

I will pay. You're going to be holding your breath till you die. You're going to be holding your breath till you die. It's going to be great because we'll get good seats because we'll be like in our 70s. Yeah, we'll be so old. Come on. We'll be three aunties on up. I don't have kids. That kid's college fund is now my Rihanna ticket fund because it's going to take the same amount of time to raise a kid for that concert to come out. So that's the only one. But I want like a big megawatt star if I'm going to pay for an arena.

Yeah. I will say, because tickets weren't too expensive, and LA folks, if you go to this show, look for me. I am going to see Third Eye Blind and Yellow Card at the Hollywood Bowl mid-June. He sure is. My emo scream heart is going to be alive. Yellow Card? Okay. Oh, I'm...

I'm sending you a playlist. Actually, actually feelings. He said Cowboy Carter, no thanks. Yellow card, I will see you. Yellow card is $117. Yellow card is $117. Two things. Listeners, I'm going to put my favorite emo 90s rock playlist on the Patreon. Come find it there. And two, let us know what your thoughts are on concert tours this summer. Are you going? Are you not? Why or why not? Let us know.

With that, we're taking a break. When we come back, we become the Proud Family. Because it's pride.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

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Listeners, we're back and we're talking about pride and how honestly we're struggling to be a bit proud this year. Did I get that right, girls? We pride a little off? I'm just tired. Like, it feels like every year there's like, what is the thing for pride this year? And I'm like, my vibe for pride this year is just tired.

Gay and tired is the vibe. All right. I support that. Well, as you know, this week begins the official month of Pride, but this year the vibes are a bit off, which we're going to dive into today. But however, they have been off for a little bit of time now. So to lay some context, in 2019, right before the pandemic hit, that

That was the 50th anniversary of the Stonewall riots, which is where we mark the beginning of pride in the American historical record. It also coincided that year with World Pride, which every year a city is chosen for World Pride. And every queer person around the world, not every, but a lot of them travel and they come to town. And that year it was New York City. So I was there for that one. Saeed, were you there for World Pride? You were there? I was, unfortunately.

Why, unfortunately. It was just enough. That's a whole other podcast. Your voice got real low. So I just went back in time. I was like, ooh. But it, for me, I would argue, was the height of modern pride just because it was massive. I think it was one of the largest parades ever in the history of the world. More corporate backing than ever before. And there was even an amazing activist contingent that did the original pride march to Central Park that was really stunning that year.

However, the next year was the pandemic and everything came to a screeching halt. However, pride continued for a minute in the wake of the George Floyd protests. We saw a lot of great movements in New York City and other major cities, you know, culminating with the Black Lives Matter movement. However, ever since that moment, things have kind of

plummeted really fast. And some of it has to do with corporations are backing out of Pride. If you remember last year, Dylan Mulvaney and Bud Light had that massive controversy, which happened right before Pride. And that caused a lot of brands to begin pulling back on the corporate spending. And things got even worse when Target, who famously makes a Pride collection, saw their profits drop for the first time in six years because of the Pride collection and protests around it, which has resulted in 2024 being, I will argue, and we won't know until the end of the month,

the least invested in Pride by corporations in many, many, many years. But beyond the corporations, which we'll talk about, it just feels a bit different. And I want to begin there because I was talking to Craig about this and I was like, is it different because I'm older and I don't go to the bars as much or is it different because something material has happened? So Saeed, how are you feeling in Columbus as Pride's beginning? Because your big festival hasn't begun unlike here in LA, which was last weekend. Yeah.

Right, our festival here, all that starts really in a couple of weeks. There have been some kickoff events. I don't feel great. I think, and this is not unusual, and actually I'll use an example from 2019 to prove my point, but I think in the last few years in particular...

The tension, I guess it's just the cognitive dissonance, that the tension between pride as a party, you know, get out there and turn it and da-da-da, where are we going next and where are we going after that, lives in loud tension with everything else going on outside of the party. Divas being arrested, even though pride started as a protest, and that's already happened here in Columbus this month.

You know, in 2019, one of the things I will never forget is that in 2019, there was a it was like a pre party at the Stonewall Inn, obviously historically significant. And, you know, it was supposed to be just a party. But let's keep it real. We know what we're here for. Right. A black trans woman took the stage at one point.

as an activist and wanted to have a moment of silence to draw attention to trans people who had been killed that year. And white gay men in the audience tried to call the cops on her. Yeah, I remember that. That's 2019. That's the good times, you know? And so when we talk about, like, the peak of pride, I'm like, the peak for who, you know? So I don't know. I just... I...

I don't feel great. And then on top of everything else, yeah, I do think there's a kind of, it's almost kind of like with the tour fatigue that Sam was talking about. I'm just a little, something has to change. The pride business as usual doesn't gel for me. Yeah. I feel the same kind of fatigue. You'll recall for a good year plus, especially when Ron DeSantis was trying to become the GOP nominee for president, he

Florida and a lot of other states were just pushing these nonsensical anti-queer laws about what pronouns you could use. This week, he's trying to ban pride rainbows on streets in Florida. There was, you know, the Don't Say Gay bill. There were things targeting trans youth and gender-affirming care. And it felt like for a good year or two, queer folks had to have their bodies in the street to protest all of this.

And now we've seen the right kind of shift its focus from queer rights to abortion rights. But I think a lot of queer people are a little exhausted by the fight. And so just because folks are tired doesn't mean they don't care, but they are tired. They are tired. And what I found this weekend at Pride with Zach is,

Seeing Kylie Minogue, which was great, I really enjoyed being around a swarm of lovely, beautiful queer people. But I realized what I am enjoying more this year is what I'm calling private pride. I have these little game nights at my house with folks that I love. I have a small little gathering in Kiki with my close friends and et cetera. And for me, pride this year is going to be, Sam, what kind of space do you need to be in to feel proud?

What if this year that's private and not public? No shade to the mass gatherings. No shade to the parades. That's beautiful and it exists. But we can be just as proud in smaller gatherings with our close loved ones. With our close loved ones and like, I'm just doing that this year and it feels really good. It feels really good. Does that feel like, you know, something I've been thinking a lot about

And I love bringing TV into this because I think it helps materialize this. But, you know, we've been fighting for years, especially those of us that have been working in queer media. I'm looking at Saeed Jones and I. We were like working in queer media, making sure representation happened and fighting, fighting, fighting. And then GLAAD a few years ago put out a statement. And it was like, guess what, girls? Queer people make up 13% of characters on TV, which is more than the total population of queer people. So we did reach like full representation and they were fighting for more. And I think about the show Hacked.

which to me is the gayest show on TV, but it's very- Everyone's gay on our show. Everyone's gay, but they don't talk about it. It just happens. It just exists. So we've hit a moment of a normalization in public spaces, certain public spaces. So it feels like, are we in a moment where like, pride doesn't have to be how it has been for years? Does it have to shift as the political landscape is shifting? Yeah. I think for me, what I think about a lot, just embodying myself as a queer man is,

Do I ever feel like when I'm in certain places and spaces in public, in large gatherings, on a stage, am I thinking about how I'm supposed to be queer? Am I thinking about how I'm supposed to be gay? Am I thinking about how I want to present to the world? Because, you know, people are watching and looking and all of these things mean something and there's symbolism. There's a time for that. And I get it.

But when I am just along with me and my friends, I don't have to think about being queer. I can just be queer, if that makes sense. And I think that so much of the representation discourse, the visibility discourse, it puts pressure on queer people to perform.

to perform. And so I'm asking myself this month, how can I strip that pressure away at least for a little bit, at least for a few weeks? Because you're right. The visibility is good, but the visibility is also new pressure. Interesting. What about you, Saeed?

I don't know. I guess I come at it a little differently. And for example, over the weekend in Bliss Center, Washington, I hope I'm saying that right, it's in Clark County, it's a rural county. They had their fourth annual Pride rally and fair. Roughly 100 people attended. Yeah.

And I was looking at photos of this and the people who participated in the rally. And it looks like, you know, like just a very sweet, fierce group of people. They had to like use those big golf umbrellas to block out protesters that showed up.

You know, and I'll text y'all this later, but yeah, that was their strategy. They all, and it's, you know, Washington, so it's always raining. So they probably had umbrellas anyway, but that was literally their strategy to like block the awful hateful signs and everything. And I just, you know, and just like 100 people, only the fourth year they've been able to organize this parade. I try to keep that in mind, you know, I'm,

I am so privileged to live in a city like Columbus, which has a very active, influential, frankly, queer community. And, you know, that I'm able to spend time in places like New York. I've lived in San Francisco. My relationship to the visibility, to the...

And especially for like specifically like Pride weekends and stuff, that sense of safety and numbers that you feel at Pride. For me, it's not unusual. I'm like, I don't know. I'm at K-Bar, the drag shows all the time. So I don't feel odd man out very often. But I'm thinking of these people in a place like rural Washington state. And it's like, oh, yeah. No, this is a big deal for us. So, yeah, that's always something that I try to check myself on.

And like, for me, that's the thing. It's like, I don't want to yuck anyone else's yum there for a lot of folks, the visibility, the being in large numbers, the being out there is a beautiful thing that people want and need. And I'm like, yes, that, that can be for you. But also if you want a quieter sitch, that's for you. What I don't want people to feel this pride month is a pressure to do it a certain kind of way.

Do what makes you feel proud. Do what makes you feel proud. Absolutely. And I guess I would say to anyone, whether you're in a rural town or a big city, whether you are, you know, in your 20s or in your 80s, certainly I would argue that the point of pride is that you don't,

You don't owe a performance of your identity to anyone. Now, and we're going to talk about this when it comes to protest and activism, I feel differently. But when it comes to the idea that you are somehow obligated to perform a certain kind of identity politic, that is a burden that I don't think is ours. And a lot of times in a major metro area like Los Angeles, right?

the pressure to perform is sometimes the pressure to party more than you want to, the pressure to drink more than you want to, the pressure to run yourself ragged because like, I got to do this. It's pride, right? Do what feels good for you. Do what feels good for you. I, this is an amazing place to begin ending on because what you're getting at is, you know, uh, Judith Butler, um, talks about performance and gender that, you know, you perform gender and everything's a performance in life. Uh,

And I never thought about Pride Month being a performance for queer people that were all called in to say, party like this, drink like this, move like this, be like this. And currently our world context, it feels wildly inappropriate to be performing party girl fun time when trans kids can't even get access to medical services. You know, trans women are still getting murdered every two weeks. My own friend last week,

dead because she's a black choice woman so like it's just like everything things happening in gaza like there's too much happening so the the thought of going to a pride festival and taking shots and acting like it's not happening feels not right this year at all well significantly part of what's come to a head i know we talk about we blame like the not and it's not unfair or undue you know the the influence of corporate pride that's part of it but another part of it is that

Pride month celebrations, which is a very broad term, celebrations, have really been conflated with circuit parties. That part. World Pride that we were talking about in 2019 is a part of the global circuit party. Mm-hmm.

You know, phenomenon. And circuit parties are just that. They're literally just parties. They're not political acts. They're not about visibility. They are about a very specific class of mostly queer people getting together just to dance and have a good time, which is wonderful.

But when you ask people, well, what are you here for? And people don't have the same. There you go. There you go. The same understanding. That's where you run into people who are like, I'm going to call the cops on this activist for interrupting my good time. When the activist is like, I'm literally standing at the heart of this historic protest. Mm-hmm.

Well, I think that's a really good place for us to stop for now. Something I want to bring up that Saeed pointed out in our group chat is that while we're talking about, you know, are protests happening? What does pride look like? Et cetera, et cetera. We are seeing that our friends fighting for the rights of Palestinians are still in the streets. They're still marching. They're still fighting to end the violence there. So protest isn't gone in the world. It is still there. Just you got to make sure you're looking at it and showing up when you can. Yeah.

And just a little last note on this idea of like doing a pride that feels good to you, a really good check-in you can do before you think you have to go to that party, go to this thing, go to that. See how the very idea of going to the thing makes your body feel. Does it make your shoulders tense up? Does it make you sigh deeply? Does your body want to be there? Listen to your body and do what feels right. And this month, my body is saying, sit down a little bit more, hang with your people and keep it chill. And that is my pride. And it's a good pride.

Listen to your body. I love it because as has been famously said, the body keeps the score and your body keeps the score. And the body always wins. I will take it a little, and I know this is an intense note to land on, but I'll take it a little bit further. Listen to your body. But I would say also pay attention to your inebriation. Yeah.

If you find certain types of gatherings, you have to imbibe more so than you would at different types of gatherings to reach your, I would say, your party threshold. That's that significant information. Yeah. Look at us helping the people. We are. A pride gift. Trust the aunties. Trust the aunties. All right. Well, with that, we're going to take a quick break, but don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with some recommendations.

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All right, my loves, we are back. And before we end the show, we'd like to share something that's helping us keep our vibes right this week. And I usually, you know, read the poems towards the end of the segment, but since it is very topically related to pride, identity, visibility, I thought I'd start first.

I will say this poem is written by Danez Smith. The title is At the Down Low House Party. Danez Smith is a wonderful friend, a Black queer poet from the Midwest who uses they, them pronouns. I do want to acknowledge that this poem uses the word faggot several times, but this poem is very much FUBU. It's for us both. Yes. Yes. Come on, Salad. You know. I'm just going to let y'all know. Just going to let y'all know. Okay.

All right. At the down low house party. Don't expect no nigga to dance. We drink hen, hold the wall, graze an elbow, and pray it last forever. Everybody wants to touch a nigga, but don't. We say, what's good? Meaning, I could love you until my jaw is but memory. We say, yo.

Meaning, let my body be a falcon's talon and your body be the soft innards of goats. But we mostly say nothing. Just sip some good brown trying to get drunk with permission. Sometime between here and being straight again, some sweet boned glittering boy shows up, starts voguing and shit. His sharp hips pierce our desire, make our mouths water.

and water. And we call him faggot, meaning bravery. Faggot, meaning often dream of you, flesh damp and confused for mine. Faggot, meaning hail the queen. Hail the queen. Faggot, meaning I've been waiting ages to dance with you.

Ooh, quite a poem. Again, the title is At the Down Low House Party. It's from Danez Smith's book, Don't Call Us Dead. And I would also say if that poem really resonated with you, I would check out the work of Essex Hemphill. I feel this is very much in the tradition of Essex Hemphill's work.

Faggot meaning bravery. Faggot meaning bravery. I love that. Also, I could love you until my jaw is but memory. Wow. Danez be writing. Well, let's see. Sam, what's your recommendation for the week? I texted y'all this yesterday, a link to a song about which I said, this might be my song of the summer.

I'm currently obsessed with this little country bop by Shaboosie called Tipsy. There's a party downtown near a fitting tipsy.

Shabuzy is so handsome. His dreads are amazing. He's beautiful. He's gorgeous. He's just beautiful. Yeah, so Shabuzy was featured on, I want to say, two songs on Beyonce's latest album, Cowboy Carter, and he's been kind of an indie, almost experimental country artist for a little bit, but his latest song, a bar song, Tipsy, has been topping the country charts and actually topped it right after Beyonce's Texas Hold'em. I

I love this song because it feels like a throwback to the country pop of my youth in Texas. It feels like the clubs we used to go to in Texas where they bounce back and forth between hip hop and country with no regard. And I also love this song because it is a callback to the Jake Juan song, Tipsy. You recall that song from Jake Juan way back in the day where he raps the

There's everybody in the club getting tipsy. Shabuzy sings. Everybody at the bar is getting tipsy. And I like this so much because while country music is having a big debate over how raced it gets to be, over whether black people belong, Shabuzy has made a song that is a hit that says, oh, this is a country song that fully reinterpolates a hip-hop song that you actually loved too. He's saying that most people who love country and hip-hop, they can love them both.

He gets it. He knows that. And he's made a song that incorporates hip-hop and has made a number one country hit. And he's cute. And it's a bop. I don't know. This song is called A Bar Song, and in parentheses, tipsy. It sticks in your ears, in your head. I think it will be my song of the summer. Country is so...

Funny. And like, not funny, haha, funny, weird. I have a memory of when I was in college, Nashville was the closest, you know, city, city. And sometimes we would go, there was this country bar. It was mostly line dancing music. But like every, I don't know, five or six songs, the DJ would literally turn on a police siren, like a red, and they would play one hip hop song. And we would all run to the next floor.

and get our lives and then we would have to run back. So I was like, that kind of sucks. Zach, what's your recommendation? So before I say my recommendation, I want to say, Sam, when you text us the link to Shibuzee, which is a wonderful song, Tipsy, I immediately was like, oh, he finally discovered Nasty by Tinashe, but you didn't. I do like that song. Which is the actual song of the summer. I finally realized that it was Tinashe singing that.

I saw this video of the white boy throwing his hips. I still think we're going to do a song of the song because mine is still not like us. But Nasty's close. Listen, Tinashe, support indie artists. Support indie artists. Tinashe pays for all her shit herself. Anyway, that has nothing to do with my recommendation. My recommendation is, as a lot of you girls know, if you DM us on Instagram, you're usually talking to me. And after our...

Petty episode or the Petty comments that came out last week. You girls have been sharing some stories and I'm going to share one because we would like you guys to keep sending them because we want to build a whole episode around how y'all deal with love and Petty. And this one just really raised the bar. So I wanted to share and this person, I won't say their name.

gave us permission to read the story. So I begin, and we also note listeners, we always ask for permission before we share your story. So feel free to send and we'll confirm with you if it's okay. All right. So the listener writes, I was 19 and the guy I was desperately in love with, though apparently not mutual, knocked me up and then ghosted me. What's worse is that he was my manager at my job at Guitar Center.

So he convinced me to quit so we could be together. But it was really to save his job. So I left the pregnancy test. Wait, he convinced her to quit? Quit her job, yes. Convinced her to quit her job. Her job? While pregnant? While pregnant. Go on. While pregnant. But when she figured this out, she left the pregnancy test on his doorstep. And then he didn't speak for years.

The pettiness doesn't stop there. Because I mean, that's not like real petty. I would have like burned the house down potentially. But yeah, we have a follow up.

So afterward, I was pretty nuts. And this is in this listener's words. I had an abortion, thank God, moved on, et cetera. And then on my honeymoon in Chicago, my ex-husband and I ran into him at a record store. He looked unwell and then worse when he saw me. Very weird. And then after my divorce, we started talking again. And then I ghosted him for my new husband. Full circle, except I didn't impregnate anyone. And that's honestly cool with me. End of story.

Chaos agent. Mic drop. Chaos agent. I'm obsessed. Chaos is being thrown at this person and this person is throwing chaos right back. I don't know. This is, I mean, I'm glad you're happy now. I wish you the best, homegirl. I'm glad she won. She won in the end. It just took some time. So that's the lesson here today. You may not win tomorrow, next week, or next month, but in the end, you can win. Wow. Wow.

So send us more. Send us more, please. Those on the Patreon have also been sharing their stories and it's wild. It's really good. I got to say, I need to start being more petty. You do. The most, the most, the pettiest thing I've ever done, and I'm going to say this because it's been years and they can't find me anymore. Someone parked in my reserve parking spot in my parking garage in my apartment complex years ago. And I had gotten home from a work trip at like two in the morning and

And there was this big old SUV in my spot. And I had to go park like five blocks away. I keyed the car from the rear to the rear. You keyed someone's car? I dug in like a can opener. I dug in like a can opener. And I don't regret it. Come on, Carrie Underwood. Wow. Do you know how good it feels to call me D'Angelo? Because how does it feel? Good. Sam.

That was my pettiest ever. That's incredible. Wow. Okay, well, I'm going to think about my pettiest ever and we'll share that. So that's, you know, a prize for everyone. Send us your petty. I'll just close out with a little bit more advice, you know, and y'all already know this one if you're in the Patreon, but I did some digging or not some digging, some research and I learned that you can go online and get animal poop

from the Columbus Zoo delivered to whatever address you plug in there as compost. It is good for gardening. If you happen to send it to someone who does not have a garden, well, that's on you. I'm changing my address, Saeed. I'm scared of you. I'm scared of you. I don't live here anymore. laughter

All right, shut it down. Shut it down. Let's get out of here. All right. Well, listeners, what are you feeling or not feeling this week? Petty or not? Let us know your vibe at vibecheckatstitcher.com. And as always, thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platform, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, and leave a review. And most importantly, tell a friend. And I have a challenge. We have lots of challenges today.

Do you have a family member that you feel meh about because they may be not the nicest to gays or have some issues? Send them this episode. Let them hear us. Just see if we can get them to engage. Make us the bridge.

Just happy Pride Month. Listen to this show or pick one of your favorite episodes, but send it to someone that you typically would have sent something to. Yeah, I like it. Huge thank you to our producers, Chantel Holder, engineers Rich Garcia and Brendan Burns, and Marcus Holm for our theme music and sound design. Special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brendan Sharp from Agenda. And shout out to Aisha Ayub, who creates our social media content. Special thanks this week to Tamika Weatherspoon, who pitched in. Thank you.

Listeners, we always want to hear from you. Do not forget, you can email us whenever you want, vibecheckatstitcher.com, vibecheckatstitcher.com. Find us on Instagram as well. We got a new Instagram page for the show. Zach does a great job with it. It's at vibecheck underscore pod.

And also our Patreon, Patrion, Patronus Patron. For five bucks a month, you can get direct access to our group chat. I've also been sharing my favorite playlist. It's good music. Check it out. Patreon.com slash vibe check. All right. Till next time.

Be good to yourselves. And we'll see you next Wednesday. Bye. Bye. So much to make a t-shirt with every way in which Sam says, Patreon. It's like, they need to let it go. You need to let it go. Everybody needs to let it go. I ain't letting it go. Stitcher. At Amica insurance. We know it's more than just a car. It's the two door coupe that was there for your first drive.

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