The Oscars Are My Super Bowl
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Hello, little gold ladies. That's what they call the Oscars, Saeed. The Oscars are little gold men. It took me a minute. I was like, I get it. We're there. We're there. Yeah. Yeah. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Stafford. And you are listening to Vibe Check. Vibe Check.

This week we are going in on the Oscars. We're giving you some of our predictions, thoughts ahead of Sunday's ceremony, and then we're going to go deep into this campaign that seems more intense, more long-lasting than a presidential campaign. This is really something. That's what we're doing today. How are we feeling about this? I'm excited. I mean, I've been pushing for this episode for a few weeks now. The Oscars are my Super Bowl, and I love the frame that we have for this episode. We're doing, drumroll please...

Oscar superlatives. I love it. So it takes me back to high school, but like not toxic. It's going to be delightful. I'm ready for it. Sam is so happy. I cannot overstate the joy radiating off of him. Just alive, baby. The movie. But I want to go back. Wait, you had high school superlatives. What was yours that you got? Oh, girl. I campaigned and won most outstanding senior boy award.

Most of the superlatives were voted on by students. So like prom king, homecoming queen, it was all by students. But there was one award for seniors that the teachers voted on.

And they would pick outstanding senior boy and outstanding senior girl. And I was like, I want to get it. So I wrote a letter asking every teacher for their vote. And I hand-delivered them to all the teachers after school. And I won. Okay, so you were the Bradley Cooper of South Texas. Bradley Cooper of your high school. Yeah. Okay, good to know. You might say you conducted that vote. See now. And what?

And to connect some dots here, that's why you've been trying to watch my A-stroke so many times. I have tried four times and failed. It's because you are psychically connected to that man. Yeah. Okay. Wow. That's good to know. Not calling me Radha Cooper. Wait, did you have a superlative?

I don't think it was an option to campaign. Yeah, we didn't have the campaigning option. Oh, it wasn't done until I did it. I was the first to ever do it. Of course you were. The Shirley Chisholm of... Wow. Oh, God. Too good. I got most dramatic...

Really? Which feels accurate. I personally remember kind of privately wanting, you know, best dressed, but that wasn't in the cards for me. And my friend, I always love to say my friend, Stephanie Umo, she got most dramatic female, you know, at the time I was like the binary gender things. And, you know, she's since been on Broadway. She was in the revival of a Broadway musical. Oh, ragtime. She, when they, she's a ragtime. Audra McDonald played her role, Sarah and, and met her and was like, I'm now handing,

the role to you. And now she's been in the traveling production of Hamilton for years. Okay. And I'm to this day in my own way, a dramatic bitch. So, you know,

Shout out to Louisville High School for picking up what we were putting down. I love that. Oh my goodness. I'm sorry to report the site, but I got best dress for my high school class. And I got two somehow. I got that and most likely to succeed. Okay. Wow.

And listen, that's tea. I respect it. It was my crown jewel moment of high school because there was no way I was going to get what you got, Sam. It just wasn't going to happen for me there. You know how to get votes? Ask for them.

Never hesitate. This is great. You've played yourself, Sam, because I'm leaving the conversation about the second segment, and we're going to drill in. We're going to drill in. Okay. Listeners, this is the best teaser to that conversation, knowing that Sam did this. Well, before we get into that delicious tea we're going to be sipping later, I want to check in. How are we doing, ladies? Saeed, how are you? I woke up to a link that

in my New York Times app that just really brightened my day. Sing your name. No, set the day on fire, baby. It burns it down and we love. It looks like I'm sitting in my apartment office in Columbus, but I'm in fact, this is a fake wall. I'm in a bunker.

Because, you know, RuPaul has snipers and those queens are trained. I finally was able to this morning share the news for the New York Times. I reviewed RuPaul's new memoir. The title is The House of Hidden Meanings. It's RuPaul's fourth book.

The other books have been more like a combination of kind of more like life style advice with a dash of personal experience, you know, more like photo heavy. I was delighted that I was given this opportunity. I tried to go in with alert, knowing a great deal about RuPaul. And I talk about in the review, you know, I remember iconic moments from the Love Shack.

music video or really for me what was important the vma awards in 1993 milton burrell and rupaul were assigned to present together and on stage milton burrell is being i would say like i remember that anti-gay and anti-drag and rue you know still a professional lets him have it on stage and that was really a transformative moment in my life because i was seeing an out black gay

gay man, you know, hold his own demand respect without, you know, in a way costing him anything, because this is also when supermodel is out, you know, so it's not like root disappeared after that moment. So, you know, I was interested to see what came up with this book. I encourage you to read my review, but, uh, I thought I was going to have a good time and maybe it wasn't as good of a time as I hope. That's what I was saying. I love the review. And I was reading it this morning and,

hearing you in your voice deliver each line. And that was fun. I really enjoyed it. It is. Yeah. I want more reviews from the times. No one can write like site Jones, but I like that. They let you be Said within the review. Sometimes I read these and they just like are stripping away the artists. And I'm like, I want to read this because this person is an artist talking about another artist. That's a credit to my editor there. Scott Heller.

They initially asked for 600 to 800 words, which is very difficult. Writing a review is actually, it's like, I don't do it very often. I think the last time I did a published review was 2018 for Cassie Lehman's memoir, Heavy. And that's why I tried to, I come with great,

with great compassion. Publishing a memoir is very difficult. It's a very difficult experience for obvious reasons. And so I don't take it lightly. But in 600, 800 words, you kind of have to explain the book, share what you think. You know, it's just like a lot. And I'm really grateful that the New York Times let me. I think the final draft is like 1,000 words, maybe a little bit longer. And yeah, I'm really grateful that they let me have some personal kind of reflection moments because I think it's really important. I don't want to act like

I'm just like a cold glass man.

AI analyzing this work. I'm obviously a cultural critic, but I'm also a black gay man and I'm aware of what it means to navigate these stories, even when we're disappointed in the public figures who are telling them, and I am. So yeah, I'll be in my bunker for a little bit and really, I'm not saying this was my intention, but listeners of the podcast know how I feel about the city of Los Angeles. Have I given my excuse to not set foot in LA for a while? Perhaps. Perhaps.

Perhaps. Was that my intention? No. It's not like RuPaul is just walking the streets of Los Angeles. It's not like you see him on the way to Whole Foods. Like I'll find out. Anyway, Sam, how are you doing? My vibe is good. I marked a little milestone this past weekend. For those playing along at home, you've heard me talk about my process of buying my house from my landlords just

Just about a year ago, March 2nd marked a year of home ownership for me. And I don't think I realized how big of a deal it would feel for me until I did it. I did it so rushed because they were like, you want to buy it? And I was like, okay. And I had to get the money together really quick. But I was reflecting this weekend and Monday, and I just felt this warm heaviness of it all. And it just felt like my home had been holding me, and I loved it. And I...

posted to Instagram and wrote this little kind of emotional caption. I want to read a little bit of it for listeners to just tell you the emotional space I've been in in this home the last year, you know.

I wrote,

the home was there. It held me and it let me rest and it offered me a quiet stability in the midst of so many unexpected storms. So that's my vibe this week. Just grateful for this anchor. You know, I think finding home, building home, making a home, you know, capitalism makes us think it's just a financial endeavor to increase investment and

but it is making a place of peace for yourself and a refuge for yourself. And the last year I've just felt that deeply in this home. So I'm grateful for that. And that's my vibe. I'm grateful for it. That's beautiful. And I know you, and we've talked about this before, and it's almost like, I'm so grateful as your friend that you had this anchor. And of course you shared this prayer with,

That I want more people to be able to have that. It's like, I'm so glad you're able to thoughtfully reflect on, like you said, it is a financial investment and that's significant in one way too. But it's also, like you said, like, this is my place.

The world can be a storm, but this will be my shelter. And my prayer is just that, you know, and this is structural. This is systemic. This isn't about us pulling ourselves up by the bootstrap. It's about this country making serious changes in public policy so that more people can experience the kind of safety you have.

Shelter for all, home for all. I'm just feeling that. Home is a big deal. Home is a big deal. I'm feeling that this week. Anywho, Zach, what's your vibe? I love that. I can keep going, but I'm going to stop there. I'm just so happy for you. Thank you, friend. Thank you. My vibe this week is many feelings, but it hasn't been...

with the state of the world, but it's complicated. And I think, you know, next week we're going to go deeper into this, but I want to just hold space for something that has happened this week. And that is vice president Kamala Harris has finally spoken out and said, cease fire now, but with, you know, an asterisk in place. Did you hear how she did it?

So she says, I'm calling for a ceasefire. Then as the applause run up, she says kind of under the applause for at least six weeks. It was a bait and switch. It really disappointed me.

It felt very, very that. And that's where I feel very complicated about this because she's a black woman. Joe Biden is using her to say this thing. She's not even saying it in the way that it needs to be said right now. And it's all under the guise of Ramadan starts Sunday. And that's kind of the deadline that's been set that the ceasefire needs to happen and hostages need to be returned home.

And it just feels like, you know, my frustration is we could have once said this way earlier. And there's just so much that could be said about this and so much disappointment and, you know, and just the tokenization that's happening. It's just a lot. And so much confusion. I'm like watching these visuals of America finally dropping aid. We're dropping aid onto a battlefield in which we're also sending weapons.

Like, what are we doing? The visuals are horrible. Yeah, a few thoughts. One, regarding dropping aid by parachute, which the U.S. finally did. Finally. I was like, you could have done this the entire time. Apparently, the amount of aid that was actually dropped was like less than one truck. Oh, so it was just a photo op.

I don't know if it was just a photo op, but it just underscores how we need to be letting aid come in by trucks regularly. I think before October 7th, it was like something like two to 500 trucks were regularly coming. And then lately it's been like in the single digits, double digits. The other thing though, I would say is, you know,

I encourage everyone to listen to the clip or watch it. It's very important. Don't just read the text. You need to listen to how she says it. You need to listen to the audience reaction. One, I believe she was in Selma, Alabama to honor the history of Bloody Sunday. And it's very clear she is in front of an audience of, I would argue, predominantly Black supporters.

So one thing I just want to point out is, and I hope Kamala and her team and the rest of the administration picked up on this. That was an audience full of black people who lost their shit with enthusiasm the moment she said ceasefire. Now she was kind of thrown because as we said, it was a little bit of bait and switch. But I felt it's important to acknowledge that our black vice president

spoke about ceasefire and a predominantly black audience was like, hell yes. So excited about this issue. And I think it's been really important to remind the administration, to remind Democrats, to remind people who take black voters seriously.

for granted that we are very serious about what's going on in Gaza. We have embraced this as an issue as serious to us and as consequential to us as police brutality, as the ongoing housing crisis. We refuse to allow you to separate us from it. And so I was, I want Joe Biden to say ceasefire immediately, but

it felt significant to see that response from the audience. The last time Joe Biden even alluded to ceasefire, he was like in an ice cream cone. The unseriousness with this White House's message about this is galling. Yeah. Yikes. And to close on this part of it, today we're taping this during Super Tuesday, which will now

begin the official presidential race, theoretically. So next week, we are going to go deeper into this issue in the larger context in America, because we do think, you know, something most likely will happen by Sunday, just from all the global pressure happening. So next week, we will be diving deeper into that. But with that, today is the Oscars, and we will be giving you that. So ride with us through this episode.

What Zach is saying is enjoy this pop culture episode while you can. Enjoy the pop culture sweetness while you can for a second. But before we get into it all, we want to remind you that you can send us fan mail. We love reading it. We love receiving it. Keep it coming at vibecheckistitcher.com and reach out to us on social media. As always, you know where to find us. Yeah. And just one quick note to listeners. We heard from a few of you after our conversation of IVF.

and Alabama. I got a fact wrong about that story in that case. I said that the embryos in question that were dropped at the IVF clinic in Alabama were dropped by an employee. That's not correct. They were actually dropped by a patient who gained access to the room where they were stored. This clarification doesn't change any of the points that we made in the conversation, but we want to keep it right, keep it tight. So listeners, thank you for that clarification. And here's a correction right now. Yeah.

Yeah. So shall we jump into the episode? Let's go to the office. Let's do it.

Zach, Saeed, can y'all give me a drumroll? Can y'all give me a fanfare? Trumpet, brass hits. Thank you. Smile. It's Oscar time. I've been ready and waiting for this moment for a long time. In the last month of editorial meetings, I've been saying, let's have an Oscar episode. Let's have an Oscar episode. And I really want to do it because...

More than most recent years, most of the movies have been pretty good. But more than most other years, this Oscar campaign season has felt very tedious and very long. And I want to talk about that. So we're going to get to that after the break. But first, before the break, I want us just to spend some time highlighting movies and actors and writers and others that have had a really good award season and impressed us.

So with that, we're going to do some Oscar superlatives. Yeah? We ready? Yeah. Let's do it. We got a few categories. First up, we're going to give the award, the Vibe Check Oscar Award for Best Dressed this award season. I think the three of us had a unanimous choice, no? Yes. No one's even close. No one's even close. And the winner is Coleman Domingo, star of Rustin. Coleman Domingo, the man that you are.

Yes. The man that you are. I'm just coming in. I'm coming. I live a jury on this vote on this. Yes. I just love it. And when I say no one came close, I mean across the gender spectrum, which is actually pretty astounding. I feel like this is perhaps the first Oscar ceremony in history where throughout the award season, the most consistent, impressive, daring, and

successful dresser. It's Coleman Domingo, a man. Like usually we don't even, usually when people are, you mean like fashion police or whatever the style reviews, they don't even talk about men. They'll be like, oh, this guy wore a suit that was not black. How interesting. Yeah. Look at that. Look at that. Baby, Coleman Domingo, you can just look it up. There have been slideshows. Yes, I believe he had a Valentino appearance where it was like a marigold dress

yellow suit and had a very interesting kind of 70s flow and looseness to the suit. And then, oh honey baby, he wore a coat over his shoulders, James Brown style that looks like it's made out of gold roses that were stitched together. I think it was a whole Valentino look. And that's just one of many glorious looks he's given.

And his stylist is a duo. It's Wayman and Micah. And they are known for making Jodie Turner-Smith a fashion superstar. Tessa Thompson, a fashion superstar. She's working with two people who are amazing at elevating Black fashion and Black people within couture. And it just was really, really something. And Coleman has made history this Oscar season with Jodie Foster.

because this is the first year in which two openly queer actors have received acting nods for playing openly queer characters. So good on them for that. And what I have to say, and I don't mean to be shady here, so people don't be too mad at me about this, but what I love about Coleman's fashion choices is that they are just strong. The tailoring's great. The decisions are great. How he's nodding to next season is great. And typically when we have...

queerness in fashion. And when I talk about queerness in fashion, I'm talking about a Harry Styles moment, so many men playing with gender. It's never that good. But what we're awarding them for is breaking a binary or breaking a stereotype. And it's never that well done. They just wear a dress and you're like, oh, they're wearing a dress. They deserve all the awards because they wore a dress, but the dress doesn't look

I like that you're pointing that out. And that's why I said I was like daring and successful. You're right. Because, you know, anyone who wants to like shake it up, shake up our expectations of gender, what it looks like and that, you know, it's praise. But no, the craftsmanship, the tailoring, beautiful. So Coleman Domingo. Coleman Domingo, first winner. Congratulations. Tens across the board. Next Vibe Check Oscar superlative. I know exactly where I stand, but I'm going to clarify this with my sisters. Biggest snub of this award season.

I'm going to go ahead and say, for me, it's May, December. I think there were three acting performances in May, December that should have got Oscar nominations. I agree with that. I'm inclined to agree. Yeah. I believe Todd Haynes, I think the only nomination there was for screenplay, which, yeah, I can see why it didn't get best picture. But certainly, I would say Charles Melton, Julianne Moore, Natalie Portman, they acted, honey. They did it.

Well, there's a scene towards the end where it's just Natalie Portman in front of a mirror doing that thing that's kind of referencing Black Swan again. And you're like, oh my God, give her all the flowers. Give her the Oscar. Give her to her. What I also find frustrating is Todd Haynes is a legend. A legend. He's just a legend for decades. And the Oscars continue to not give him any credit, any love. Do you have a sense of why?

I have no idea because even the screenplay he's just very gay and his screenplay was written by Sam Burge it wasn't even by Todd Haynes so it's like the one thing they got wasn't even something he'll be able to participate in if it wins so I don't know what they have against him but that man him and Julianne Moore have been doing work together for years and they deserve

For decades at this point. Yeah, I love that movie. And I'll just say, Charles Melton, I mean, I think, one, he is very, very handsome. We can't pretend that's not part of why we're talking about him. He's a beautiful man. But also, the way he physically embodied that role, I mean, that was, from Riverdale to that, it's pretty impressive. Yeah. And I mean, just like Julianne Moore's lisp alone in that movie. Now, come on now. She was doing it. Anywho, gotta move on. Gotta move on. I'm gonna call this superlative.

Best vibes slash smoothest Oscar campaign. I think this is also a unanimous pick from the three of us. Miss Davine Joy Randolph has done the damn thing all season very smoothly. And she is, by most accounts, going to walk up on that stage this weekend and get her Oscar. And it's going to be smooth. Yeah, there's been an ease and effortlessness to her campaign. You know, and I just think ease and effortlessness, it's kind of like charisma.

You know it when you see it. And you have it or you don't. You know it when you don't. And some of us have it and some of – but most of us do not. And I just think she's won, as you pointed out, Sam, all of the kind of lead-up awards. So I think it would be a stunning upset for her not to win the Oscar. But beyond this, I mean obviously she's been introduced to a whole different audience. But the ease with which she's done it is really impressive.

And I have to point out that she did this campaign and has become the front runner in the wake of starring in a show that none of us liked, The Idol. Oh, I forgot about that. Shut up. Talk about highs and lows. Talk about highs and lows. She's operating on a whole different level. Shout out to her. And that's the thing. It's like the real art is when things look effortless. It's not because there isn't a team. It's not because there isn't a strategy. It's just like, wow.

And that's the thing with her is that she has been working. She began on West End. She was in Ghost, the movie adaptation for stage. But if you look at her IMDb, she is working across TV and film for years. And it's kind of been this like, she's been this like sleeper actor in Hollywood that's always booked, but no one was really looking to. And then she saw her breakout moment and took it. And we're so proud of her. And this is definitely something you see during the Oscars. It's like the, what is it? The overnight sensation, a decade in the making. There you go. There you go. And I will say,

This underscores how much I love the holdovers. When I first saw the trailer for that film, it seemed so predictable, so stereotypical. It seemed like

a movie made for middle-aged white men in the late 90s. But I watched this movie and it blew me away. And by the end, I was in a puddle of tears. The Holdovers is good, y'all. The Holdovers is good. Yeah, yeah. Anywho, next category, most likely to win without winning.

And I have three picks for this superlative, and we can see if we agree. But every Oscar season, I'm obsessed with the folks who get nominations. Everyone knows they probably won't win, but just having that nomination takes their career to the next level. And this season, I've seen it happen for three people. Celine Song, who directed Past Lives and is up for Best Director this year for that movie.

Cord Jefferson, our friend who adapted the screenplay for and directed American Fiction. He's up for some Oscars, too. And then Coleman Domingo, who we mentioned, who's up for Rustin. These three people, most prognosticators agree they might not win their Oscars, but they're setting themselves up for a higher level and tier of work for the next few years. And I'm happy for them for that. I'm very happy for them.

I agree with that. I think Kord and Celine are not going to be working forever. They're going to be the go-to directors. Celine already has her next movie set up at A24. Okay, girl. It's already been announced that Kord Jefferson is attached to an Amazon series that Scarlett Johansson's going to be in. So he's up there. He's doing it. He's doing the thing. Asian-American icon, Scarlett Johansson. Ah! Well...

I know Selena's shook. I know Selena's song is shook about that. What I would add is one for Coleman, you know, I think it's both about the film Rustin as it is The Color Purple. And, you know, he gave an extraordinary performance in that. So I also think it's like really great when an actor, like you said, is like he doesn't need to win the award to win because he has these two high profile films where the roles culminate.

Could not be more different. Bayard, Rustin, and Mr. Oh my gosh. And so the range of talent he's been able to expose, in addition to the fact we also know he's a Broadway star. And then I would just sneak in Greta Lee.

I think Greta Lee, who a lot of us have loved for a while, but also the fashion shoots, baby, the style. I think she's now been introduced as the new it girl. And I'm really interested to see. She is sexy. She is beautiful. And past lives obviously has deep meaning. That bar sound took me out, baby. Man. You were shook. I mean, that was quite something. Well, I want to say two things to that before we move to the next one. One, comment.

Coleman Domingo's next big role do you all know what it is what is it he's gonna play Joe Jackson in the Michael Jackson movie which is his next big role he's gonna be like y'all thought y'all hated Mr. wait till you see this yeah and Michael Jackson's nephew is playing him so anyway that's his next big movie that's

I'm hearing great things about. So we're going to see that. And then the other thing I'm going to add is my person we didn't talk about or I don't know, person, animal really that should be winning or will win from this award season is Messy the dog from Anatomy of the Fall. Okay.

He has become a superstar. No, he is what he is. Let me tell you my beef with the whole Oscar campaign around Anatomy of a Fall featuring that dog. They've done a really fun Oscar campaign around a dog, a cute, fun Oscar campaign for a movie that is actually all about did this woman kill her husband? Weird. And this woman...

Sandra Huler, she's incredible. She anchors two movies that are up for Best Picture. The Zone of Interest and Anatomy of a Fall. So I don't know why they didn't lead with this woman who's definitely a breakout star and will become an international sensation after this if she so chooses. But the dog has been the leader of it. You know, I would say as a human being,

I would be looking at my publicist a certain kind of way if I were this actor. And you're like, wait, you're emphasizing the dog? I love dogs, obviously, but come on. For this very serious movie, by the way. Yeah, yeah. All right, next category. Biggest Oscar campaign letdown.

It hurts me to say this, but I mean it. From the very start, the Oscar campaign for the color purple seemed off. Am I wrong, my sisters, in feeling this way?

Yeah. And I just re-watched the movie because it's available for streaming now. And I love it. And yet again, crying by the end. I mean, gosh, so many incredible performances from Coleman Domingo, Danielle Brooks, Fantasia Barrino, Halle Bailey as young Nettie. Just incredible. You know, I just... Sierra, one-two-steppin'. Oh!

In that movie. Okay, that's the one false note I would say. It's just, and it's nothing she does wrong. It's just distracting. You're like, oh shit, Sierra's here. Yeah, but the campaign, it felt like as soon as they started promoting the movie, all hell broke loose. I knew things were off when they began their Oscar campaign, maybe a month or two too late. A lot of the other contenders had their folks out doing press and everyone's like, where's the color purple? They began to show up in like December.

It was weird. Yeah. It was really weird. And then they were everywhere really quickly. So it was like a quick sprint of it all with Oprah Winfrey leading the way. And then it just all kind of fell apart and lost its steam really quickly. So it makes me sad because I thought it would be a big contender. But it just didn't make it across the line. Sorry, guys. And something that I felt very conflicted about, you know, there was a moment in this Oscar campaign where Taraji P. Henson was talking about how hard it is for black women in film and how...

even on the set of Color Purple, perhaps, she didn't have the basics like a car to get her to set. Nor her other cast members. Her other cast members, yeah. And so at first you're like, I'm so glad that she's speaking her truth. But then it felt like,

Other members of the Color Purple team weren't supporting her in the right way in that truth telling. And it ended up looking like there was division within the ranks of the movie itself. And it just hurt the campaign. It hurt the campaign. And I don't, I always want someone like Taraji to speak her truth about,

But it didn't work this time, if I can say that. Yeah. It reminded me so much of the Emmy campaigns around Pose with Ryan Murphy, Billy Porter, and MJ, where there was obviously some division within the ensemble and people working and who got nominated and who didn't. And it was playing out in the press tour in these really subtle ways. And it just made me uncomfortable. We ended up overanalyzing photos of Oprah and Taraji together. Remember that? And video footage. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard because...

And I'm glad you mentioned Pose. I think the challenge is it's always difficult to have a structural conversation amidst promotion. So let's set aside the awards for a moment. These interviews initially are happening because you're promoting a

film for which you're compensated and it's helping, you know, your fame. And I just think for everyday people, it's all, that's already a bit of a stretch. We're already like, but wait, but you're like on the big screen. And then you're trying to connect like your work challenges to my work challenges. And I'm sorry, it's not just the same. And then you add, and you're like, wait, this is part of the Oscar strategy. It just cynicism can understandably creep in, even if that's not the intention. And then the other thing I would add is I think it's a real challenge to

To kind of remain coherent when it's a musical, like the Color Purple, all musicals have huge casts. Yep. It's not like... Tamela Mann is in this movie. Everybody's in this movie. Or things where it's like basically three or four principal... Or, you know, the holdovers. This is like 20 big... I mean, you know, Whoopi Goldberg is in this movie for a minute. So I think maintaining coherence is obviously such an important part of communicating effectively. And they just...

weren't able to do that. But I do feel the issues Taraji was pointing to, there was merit to them. Also, runner-up for best dressed campaign season, Fantasia Barrino. Girl was dressed. Girl was dressed. A great season of style. Last category, biggest drumroll of them all,

Most tedious Oscar campaign. Saeed, you've got the envelope. Make the announcement. Oh, gosh. I know this is a real nail-biter. And the award for pissing me off in new and inventive ways.

goes to the actor and executive producer of the film Maestro. Maestro. Maestro. Bradley Cooper. Bradley Cooper. I know you've been working so hard for this award, baby, six years. We're going to talk about it after the break. Yes. Yes. But yes, you earned this one, honey. Yeah. I've historically really liked Bradley Cooper, and I didn't hate the movie. I didn't love the movie. It just tried...

Too hard. And we're going to get into what that means and how that operates. But I will say, you know, the runner up for me, and I say this with love and deep respect, would be Margot Robbie's campaign for Barbie just because she's been on the road for like six, seven months nonstop in pink. I feel bad for her. She needs a break. Let her go home. Listen, many of our listeners loved Barbie and have understandably strong feelings about Barbie snubs. But I think the three of us have to acknowledge

It feels like we've, and we have been talking about Barbie for 10 months. So long. All right. With that, going to take a break now. When we come back, we'll use Bradley Cooper and Maestro to talk about how this awards season is kind of effed up. We'll go there. Use him like a conductor's baton, honey. We'll be right back. We'll be right back.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

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All right, my loves, we are back and we are going to discuss a different aspect of the Oscars. The campaigns. Over the weekend, the New Yorker magazine published a fantastic article by Michael Shulman, who we want to say, we were talking about this in the group text, we've really come to appreciate Michael Shulman's work. I like it. We're fans, Michael. We love him. We're fans. Come to the Kiki. Dare we say it? Come to the Kiki.

to the kinky. The article is titled, quote, Can You Really Want an Oscar Too Much? Here's a bit of what he had to say, quote, To campaign for an Oscar as for the presidency, which yikes as a parallel, you need a narrative, some compelling story decided on by a combination of the nominee, campaign strategist, and the media that gives the voters a warm, happy, check-the-box feeling.

Which makes sense. This is storytelling. You got to have a story to tell. It's got to reach and connect with people. However, Shulman points out that, first of all, every nominee, as I mentioned, even someone as cool, calm, and collected as Dave Vine Joy Randolph has a strategy and is enacting it. Some of them are more clear than others. And so he points out that there's also a hazard. And he says, Oscar campaigning is a paradox.

You have to be extraordinary. But even if you're on message and game, you can somehow leave the impression that you're doing it wrong.

And I would argue that in particular, it seems that voters and viewers like us, we start to get a little turned off, maybe uncomfortable when it feels like the studio or a nominee is pushing that story too hard, where it seems like they want it a little too much. And as we talked about at the end of the first segment, Bradley Cooper, for better or worse, has kind of epitomized this. He's not the first person by any means.

to kind of run into this paradox. But this paradox is kicking his ass this season. Sam, Zach, we've nodded to it a bit, but let's get into he. So he executive produced the film Maestro. It's a passion project. He's wanted to work on for years. He's worked with the families. He's obviously starring in as well. What are your thoughts about the film and the campaign? Well, this is the first thing that made me raise my eyebrows.

He didn't just EP this movie. He didn't just star in it. He also directed it and he also wrote it. That's a lot. He's like that fake nose. I made that fake nose myself. Yeah. Well, and like, I think from the very start, Bradley Cooper was telling us all of the things that he did to get ready for this movie, not to share how it made the movie better, but to share how hard he worked.

For instance, he's talked at length this campaign season how he practiced for six years to learn how to conduct those conducting scenes. As someone who used to conduct, it ain't that hard, baby. And it doesn't take six years. And so at a certain point, Bradley Cooper wasn't doing it to be good at conducting for the film. He was doing it so he could say, look what I did. Same with the nose. Same with the accent work. It was all these feats of strength.

and not doing the method acting for the acting's sake, right? And then on top of that, Bradley does this thing that other try-hards do not do, right?

We have a lot of actors who want the award, who want the Oscar. And I would say all actors are tryhards. They all want it. That's kind of the entire point. But when I think of the last tryhard that was universally panned for being too much of a tryhard, it was Anne Hathaway. And Anne Hathaway got that Oscar and earned it for Les Mis. But Anne Hathaway was just acting.

She didn't direct herself. She didn't write herself. She didn't EP herself. Bradley Cooper, on top of being this weird tryhard, he also wants to control all the levers of production. It's a little off-putting, especially when he says that this movie, Maestro, is actually about a love story between this woman, played by Carey Mulligan, who chooses to love for life a queer man.

How much better of a love story about that woman would it have been had Bradley let a woman direct the film? We'll never know. We'll never know. And I would say, you know, what Bradley was going after with making this film, writing, directing, producing, starring,

is incredibly uncommon in Hollywood to do all of that and then also to win for it. In the history of all movies, only two people, two men, have won Best Actor and been dominated for Best Director. And that is Laurence Olivier for playing Hamlet in 1948. And then Roberto Benghini, who's an Italian director who did Life is Beautiful and also was in the movie. But, you know, what Bradley was going after was so ambitious and so huge. And I think Hollywood does...

ambition and narcissism and all these other attributes. But there is a level to it. And when you pass it, there is no coming back. And Anne Hathaway, to your point, I think being a woman, just her wanting it too much as a woman was enough to damn her. Bradley Cooper, as a man, had to take it further and be like,

I did the whole movie and now I'm damned for doing it. And, you know, Netflix put a ton of money, so much money behind that movie in ways they haven't put money behind the other movies that were being considered for an Oscar. And it's all kind of blown up in their face, sadly. And we're going to open this up because I don't, I don't want to, you know, clearly Bradley is beating himself up enough. I think that's clear, but I do want to point out some other dynamics that I think are impacting with Bradley. Um,

One, I mean, and Michael Schulman talks about this, is also that he was in a recent major Oscar campaign for A Star is Born. So it's also just like in recent memory, we're just like, oh, here we go again. So it's also like, and I think Michaela Cole talks about like, listen, sometimes it's good to go away for a while.

And that's her method. And then when we come back, we're like, oh, it's so good to see you. I missed you. Yeah, but the other two things, and this is important because I want to begin thinking about, and I love you talking about gender, the broader culture. One, I think the direction of the wind of opinion on method acting is changing in real time because I think for a lot of us, and this is part of, I think, the positive legacy of Me Too, we've come to understand that there is a not great relationship between women

men who are proud of their method acting and men acting like assholes on set. I'm not saying that's what Bradley Cooper is or has done, but the association, like he's trying to emphasize it and we're trying to forget and kind of move away from that as a way of like being like, oh, that's what it is to be a serious actor.

actor. We have a lot of women being like, I gave a great performance and I didn't have to. And also men, I will not forget towards the end of the run of Succession on HBO, Brian Cox, a Brit who plays a patriarch of this family, he kind of called out Jeremy Strong for his method acting. His own cast member. Girl, do we need all this? Read the lines. Yeah. So at best it's starting to look a little ridiculous. And it's always men doing this. Tell me the last woman you've heard

who was talked about for months for her method acting. Yeah, you're exactly right. Women aren't allowed to do that. And then also, women are reprimanded for wanting things too much, even if it's not acting. And I think a lot about Ava DuVernay. I've heard all of our contemporary podcast shows. I won't name specific names, but when they brought up Origins, a film that I thought was good, I thought was ambitious. I don't think it was like, it should have been the Oscar. But so many people in Hollywood have been annoyed at Ava's

anger at the institution itself for not being supportive of her. And I'm like, why is she being damned for that? But Bradley Cooper was being exalted for being this ambitious for years now. There was one moment in one of these podcasts, we're talking about Ava and they're like, yeah,

We think her Oscar campaign turned people off because it felt like she was complaining too much. You know, nothing she said was wrong. It was all true, but it felt weird. I'm like, okay, okay, what's going on here? What's going on here? You know, I think Bradley also just had bad luck where we literally just had Cate Blanchett as Lydia Tarr. So Cate Blanchett is another one of those- It didn't take her six years to be Lydia Tarr, I'll tell you that. Very serious actor. But, you know, again, she makes it look just like

I don't know. This is just my job. I take it deadly seriously, but I'm not going to beat you over the head with it. So bad timing for him on that. But let's also talk the point of Ava DuVernay race, ethnicity, and frankly, white supremacy also very much informs how any culture,

thinks about work and I would say earnestness. And that's kind of what we're talking about. These campaigns where someone, their strategy is to basically use their earnestness as a way to do it. Sam, do you have some examples where this kind of has come up in the past? Oh yeah, last Oscar season, I think all three of us really thought that Everything Everywhere All at Once was the best movie of the year and deserved to get the Oscar. Love it, still do. But I remember looking back on that Oscar campaign season and

And the two actors who won Oscars for their acting work, talking about Michelle Yeoh and Kei Hui Kwan, they had to do this song and dance where for the entire awards season, at every podium or lectern they got up to, when they received some award, they had to cry and tell you how grateful they were. And that's what got them the Oscar. And I still think the Academy expects...

from marginalized backgrounds to genuflect their way to an Oscar and to be so grateful for it and so grateful to be here. And then you look at the way Bradley Cooper campaigns, he has not at one moment said who or what he's grateful for. He's just been telling you how hard he's worked.

And I think it highlights the ways that successful Oscar campaigns mean different things for people based on who they are. And the expectations of what a good campaign is are different for you based on your race and your gender and a whole bunch of other variables. Yeah. And it makes me think a lot about

You know, Halle Berry's historic win for Monsters Ball when she got on stage and she was crying and she was the first black woman Best Actress winner. And immediately she launches into thanking Dorothy Dandridge, Diane Carroll, Angela Bassett, all these other women. And, you know, when a black woman gets on stage, the Oscars and other awards are like, remember where you come from. Remember everyone that paved the way. Yes.

Well, let me step in here because I don't, to a certain extent, I agree in the bigger picture. I don't want to remove agency from these people. You know, I don't want to say that Halle Berry walked on that stage and said it because she felt she had to. She might've just said it because she's like, no, that's the history. I don't want to pay homage to it. What I will say is that I think I've noticed that.

that a very subtle way I think actors can be manipulated, and I think this might have been true last season with Everything Everywhere at Once. I don't think it's so much that a publicist says, Michelle, yo, you need to get up there and remind us how grateful you are. It's that I think an actor gives up and has a very authentic moment where maybe they get emotional. And then it works and they realize. Yes, and then the post-publicist

praise they get from the team is the praise, but that's the feedback. I just compare Michelle Yeoh and her gratitude and Halle Berry and her gratitude. What did Anne Hathaway say when she won her Oscar? I had a dream and I got it. I want every Oscar winner to be able to just do that. That's what I want. I don't think we're there yet. I still think these Oscar campaigns are prickly and hard to decipher. I

But let me tell you, I'm obsessed with watching it. I'm obsessed with watching. I am. It's all really, really interesting. And we've gotten into so much. But the one other thing, and ironically, you know, it does feel like we have to bring in America Ferreira's monologue from the Barbie movie. The sense of you're supposed to want it, you're supposed to strive, but you're not supposed to see it. And so, Zach, I was wondering if you had any thoughts about that. Because that does feel like something different.

that relates to the rest. All of us are not going to the Oscars. Most of us won't. But this feels like something that applies. Oh, 100%. It applies to, you know, bodies. When we talk about our own health journeys, if you're on a diet or working out, you know, if someone notices a change in you that they think is positive, if you were to say how hard you worked or talk about it in a really real way, we're like, whoa, that's too much. You're telling me too much. It's even down to like

German friends of mine have said, you Americans are so funny. When you ask each other, how are you? If someone answers authentically, you think they're weird. You run away from them. And that kind of encapsulates this try hard identity where you want something. You see it clearly. You have a vision and you're open about going for it. But certain people are punished for being too open about it.

their wants and desires in public space. And I would say the only person in America who's really supported in many ways for wanting his desires flaunted in public is Donald Trump these days. Donald Trump is like the ultimate tryhard, but yet a big fraction of this country is really excited about his tryhardness. But a woman would never. Hillary Clinton was punished for it. So we see it play out in all different parts of the world.

You know, we have been listening to podcast episodes about award season, reading articles about it. And a thing that keeps coming up is how all these smart minds will compare an Oscar campaign to a political campaign. And I said, huh, all right, if both of these things are getting longer, have they worked?

Have longer political campaigns given us better politics? I don't think so. Have longer Oscar campaigns made for better movies? I'm not sure. And I want to, with both of these things, kind of look at why we do this and who gave it to us. Most people already know this who follow the Oscars. But the modern Oscar campaign season, as we know it, was introduced to America by one Harvey Weinstein.

who campaigned really hard to get Shakespeare in love over the top to beat Best Picture over Saving Private Ryan. So this campaign season that's not nice to people came from a bad man, and it was first used to help a movie that shouldn't have won win. Think about that. You know, when can we tear the system down? That's what I'm asking.

I don't know when because it's like, I don't think it's going to stop anytime soon. It's become a huge economy in LA. Businesses are supported off of it. But what I found really striking was this week I saw Dune at the Chinese Theater, which is next to the Dolby Theater in Hollywood, which is where the Oscars will take place. And they were already setting up. It was already mayhem and etched into the walls as you walk up those staircases to go to the Oscars. It says Shakespeare in Love, 19, whatever year it was. And I was like, wow. Wow.

That stunt for that movie has created all of this around it. And that is incredible. And does anyone ever think about Shakespeare in Love? Come on now. No. Gwyneth Paltrow doesn't even. I think about the pretty pink dress Gwyneth Paltrow was wearing. Yeah. I think that's a pretty classic image. Oh, that was pretty.

Well, we'll leave it there for now. I don't even, I'll be honest, will I even watch the Oscars this weekend? I'm going to a little party. I'm going to a little party to watch. We shall see. But as we mentioned, we really do enjoy Michael Schulman's journalism and the way he writes about this. And so if you're more interested, he has a whole book on this titled Oscar Wars.

A History of Hollywood in Gold, Sweat, and Tears, which is a great title. I'm going to get a copy of it. Because yeah, it's like, I don't love the Oscars, but kind of like what Zach was just kind of talking about. I think there's such an interesting call and response between the glamour we see up there and maybe what it can tell and says about our own kind of everyday values in terms of striving. Because I think the thing about America is,

is you're supposed to succeed, but don't you dare let us see you sweat. I think that is, that's what we're actually talking about when we say pull yourself up by the bootstraps. You're supposed to do that before you're on the street. We don't want to see you striving. And I think we punish and look down upon people who are doing something that is so human.

We'll leave it there for now. I still think Bradley Cooper's annoying. We all agree. We all agree, yeah. We do, we do. And I think that glass closet's getting a little loud. Anyway, we're going to take a quick break. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Leave it in, Chantel. I'll take it in.

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Listeners, we are back. And before we end the show, we'd each like to share something that's helping us keep our vibes right this week. And with that, I'd like to throw to Sam Sanders. What's keeping the vibes right? And is it Oscar theme for you? You know what? I wrecked it before, but I want to wreck it again because I really think it's going to be hard for me to finish this Oscar season without singing at the top of my lungs.

Poor things. Poor things. Poor things. Oh, yeah, because we haven't really gotten to talk about it. It's a really good movie. Y'all love it. It's a really good movie. I think we're seeing Emma Stone walk into her Meryl Streep era where everything she touches will turn to gold. She's not just the lead in this film. She's one of the producers. She's a boss. And she has, for me, the most dynamic acting performance ever.

of the film. You see her character learn to inhabit her body and her sexuality while her brain is also going from child to adult.

It's a hard thing to pull off convincingly. And she does it the whole time in great gowns, beautiful gowns. I am an Emma Stone stan. And for those who haven't watched it yet, please go watch Poor Things. Do you think obviously Lily Gladstone has a very strong chance of winning the Oscar for Best Actress? Do you think Emma Stone might win, though?

I think I want Emma Stone to win because I think they both do amazing work, but I think Emma Stone had a bigger and better role to work with. A lot of what Lily Gladstone has to do in this movie is just sit quietly while the white men do all the talking.

And by the end, I was a little tired of it. I wanted more of Lily being able to say words, you know? Yeah. And I think Emma Stone, the entire film, is given a character that is really just fully embodied in some very vivid ways. There's just more meat on the bone with that role. Lily Gladstone does the work. I just...

In the larger scheme of things, I wish that the entirety of Colors of the Flower Moon was more focused and centered on the native people in that film.

You're certainly not the only person who has said that. Yeah, really not. And I would say out of upsets, I think if there's going to be one big upset, it would be Emma Stone winning over Lily Gladstone, which would make people feel, I think, a lot of types of way, but they would understand. The other one, which will be my rec for the week, I do not think this is going to happen because I think Oppenheimer has Best Picture on lock. That was like science deal delivered last summer. Sorry. But the one...

sleeper film that I think could come around and make a big win through a lot of categories is zone of interest by Jonathan Glaser, which is a film that is together, right? We saw it together. It's incredibly timely. It's about a Nazi family living in Auschwitz that are running the camps, but it's about, um,

you know, in a bigger level, it ties into lots of things going on in the world right now about how we may be living on the other side of a fence where violence, terrible things are happening and we're doing nothing about it. And it's become a really popular film in LA over the past few months. So I could see that being another upset potentially, but I think Oppenheimer is going to win. Gladstone most likely will win, but you know, we'll see.

But with that, Cy Jones, do you have a poem for us? Is there something Hollywood themed? Please say yes. Indeed I do. Indeed I do. Y'all thought I was going to recommend a movie. Nice try. Nice try. So I'm excited about this because I've been able to achieve several goals with this particular recommendation. First, I want to shout out

The poet and essayist Morgan Parker will be our next guest in our Hey Sis series on Monday. Morgan is a longtime friend of mine, writer, sibling of mine of I think a decade now. Her new book, You Get What You Pay For, is a brilliant essay collection. So I'm excited for you to hear that conversation. But yeah, I figured I wanted to...

acknowledge some of her work and think about Hollywood. And this is from her most recent poetry collection, Magical Negro. Okay, so listeners, Professor Jones is back. This is what I would call a lyric poem, which I think for people who maybe don't read a lot of poetry, lyric poetry is often what people can find a little intimidating because they're kind of like, what's going on?

I'm going to say this is a podcast called Vibe Check. My clue to you, listeners, just go with the vibes. Go with the images. Go with the sounds and see where that takes you. Don't focus so much on trying to understand it sentence to sentence because it emerges in a different way. The title is Nancy Meyers and My Dream of Whiteness by Morgan Parker. I can't be sorry enough. I have learned everything is urgent.

road closings, animal lungs. I am working hard to be as many people as possible before I can't.

I know my long, dark movie is fistfuls of gravel in a brown bottle. My storyboards fill me with calculated sorrow. A full plate and burnt sage. Dollar signs, breaking news. I work two and three jobs. I am honorable and brave. The ensemble cast whittles down. Maybe I am a slave. I make ends meet. I don't get kissed. Behold my wide smile.

Octavia Spencer cooks in a small apartment. She serves joyfully and doesn't eat. She wipes her palm on her apron forehead. Angela Bassett is sick and tired of being. Denzel Washington reminds us how often we are afraid. We get arrested. Someone narrates.

What you look like is sheer fabrics and ivory shells. Alec Baldwin is smoking a joint in the bathroom of a CEO's birthday party. Steve Martin tastes the goat cheese and considers nothing. You never get arrested. There is no question that God waits at the end of your staircase, curling softly like wood-finished ribbon. Anne Hathaway hires a decorator.

Diane Keaton makes midnight pancakes and tops them with lavender ice cream. What is beautiful does not need to be called beautiful. No one talks about money. In our house, the sky is upside down. None of us find unlikely love. I do not revel in my luxury. I would rather serve than eat. If it seems like I desire you, you're right. I want my whole mouth.

Again, that poem is by Morgan Parker, and the title is Nancy Meyers and My Dream of Whiteness. Mm.

Moral of the story, Nancy Meyers and them big-ass kitchen-ass movies have fucked us up. Fucked us up. Oh, God. It's really fun to go back through your memory of different Nancy Meyers movies and the images start being like, oh, my gosh. I want to wrap my whole mouth around your safety. Listen, kitchen island's as big as an island. Yes.

Wow. Well, listeners, what are you feeling? What movies are you wanting to win? What movies really lit you up this season? What are your superlatives? Yeah, what are your superlatives? What awards would you give out if you could? Send all of that to us at vibecheckatstitcher.com as always.

I should make an Oscar jingle and sing it. You should. Stand by, Chantel. You should. You should. Wow. Well, listeners, thank you as always for tuning in to this special episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platforms. And most importantly, tell a friend. Tell all your friends and leave a review because those are great tools.

Huge thank you to our producer Chantel Holder, engineer Rich Garcia and Marcus Holm for our theme music and sound design. Also special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda.

Also, listeners, you know it. We want to hear from you. Do not forget. You can email us whenever. Vibecheckatstitcher.com. Vibecheckatstitcher.com. Also, stay in touch on Instagram. We are at Zach Staff. That Zach has an H in it. At Sam Sanders. And at The Ferocity. And use the hashtag Vibecheckpod when you post. All right. Until next time, stay tuned for another episode of our Hey Sis miniseries on Monday, May

With that, enjoy the rest of your week. Bye. Stitcher.

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