Rollercoaster of Love (and Hate)
46:37 Share

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, WeAreGolden.

Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.

As the old Negro spiritual says, just the two of us, we can make it if we try. Just the two of us, you and I. Hey, lady. Hi. I just... The fact that you channeled him is like very you, but also I'm shook to my core over that. Anywho, hi, lady. I'm Sam Sanders. And I'm Zach Stafford, and you're listening to Vibe Check. Duo edition.

Bye.

Our dear friend, our co-host, our fellow Witch of Macbeth, Saeed Jones, is in New Orleans this week to celebrate Mardi Gras. I'm jealous. Yeah, I know. He's like the queen of New Orleans. He was there for New Year's too, right? He was there for New Year's. He's now there for Mardi Gras. I love this for him. This is like his spiritual home, I think. I love it. Because he goes back a lot. Yeah, he does. I want, and let me not tell him how to live his career, but...

I would love for Saeed to just live in New Orleans for like a year and do like a New Orleans themed book. Oh, I would read. Yes. A series of essays. Come on. Come on. Oh my gosh. So what we're saying is Saeed stay. Yeah. Don't leave. And make sure you have extra bedrooms. We'll visit. You know, I forgot he was even gone this week. And then we all, of course, did the Super Bowl episode. Yeah.

And for those that don't realize, when we do the Super Bowl episode, it's literally in the middle of the game. We step out of parties or whatever, and we do it within like 30 minutes. And then our amazing producers put it together and it comes out. Usually the game ends after we've already recorded. But it was during that that he mentioned, I'm so glad we're doing this episode because I'm going out of town. And right when he said, I'm going to New Orleans, I felt a hangover hit me. And I'm not even there. Right.

- It was just a hangover by thought of Mardi Gras. I was like, "Oh God, I can taste the hurricane." So I hope he's drinking water. - The thing about those Mardi Gras drinks, they're so sugary and that's what gets you. - That actually, say that louder for people. - It's the sugar. - If you drink and you find yourself getting lots of hangovers,

Think about, am I putting juice in this? Am I putting other sugars like sweeteners in it? And that's, what's getting you really hung over. So, you know, change that a little bit and it may help, but you're still going to get a hangover no matter what, because drinking is poison. Drinking is drinking. Drinking is drinking. Speaking of things that'll make you drink, we got two big topics to discuss this week. And we're going to start by talking about the latest in the Israel-Palestine conflict. And that is this brutal attack in

and Rafa happening as we're recording. We're taping this Tuesday morning, to be clear. So by the time y'all hear this, things may have, probably will have gotten worse. This moment requires all of our attention, and we are going to give it this episode. But after that, because I know what time it is, and we know that there are some lovebirds and love haters in our audience, we're going to talk about Valentine's Day and how to navigate Valentine's Day, whether you are single or

whether you're with someone. And as part of that chat, we'll talk about how rom-coms are kind of having a moment. Yeah, and it's how it's all tied together, maybe. Before all that, though, per usual, want to check in. Zach, what's your vibe this week?

So my vibe is kind of this fun mixture of lethargic and anxious. It's like a nice little ball. I'm sorry. That sounds rough. It's not as bad as, I don't know. It is like a mixture. And the reason why is because, as you know, my birthday is in 10 days.

10 days. All right. She's turning 21. 21, yes. It is Pisces season is coming, so everyone hold on to your feelings. They're about to get really big and emotive. And I'm not a big birthday person, but I'm a big people pleaser person. And birthdays to me are very confusing because I don't want to do anything, but I feel the pressure to do a bunch. And then I'm like, do I plan a lot? And then I start

planning events for the certain friends that I want to invite. I start thinking about their needs and then I get angry because I'm like, what about my needs?

my knees. And then it just goes back and forth. And then I'm just counting down the days for it to be February 26th, the day after my birthday. So we can move on past this, this hellscape that is birthdays. So that's why I'm feeling this way. Let me tell you a secret. It's not their birthday. It's your birthday. What do you want to do? And that's it. I need to be better at that. And that's, and that's coming from a Leo. So I should listen to that more. Leos know what they need. But something that did come up is I do know

A lot of other people who have birthdays around this time of the year, which is the fun part about my birthday, is that a lot of my dearest friends are also celebrating. And one good friend whose birthday is on Thursday texts me a question that I think we talked about on the show, but I want to run by you and also listeners write in what you think.

But he texts me because we have a birthday dinner on Thursday. And he asks, what is the etiquette around birthday dinners? Do I pay for everyone's dinner that I've invited? The person who had the birthday? Yeah, the person who had the birthday. Or do people pay for their own? So what's your answer? Let me tell you something. My last birthday, I went to New York.

And some friends took me to dinner, and I knew when I walked in there, I ain't paying for nothing. They're paying for me, and they did. If you are ever at a birthday dinner, and there's a group of people, the person whose birthday it is, they should never pay, and everyone else should pay for them. Bottom line, no questions. I'll fight you over it.

So I've always lived that way too. That's how I moved through the world. However, there is a large group of people in this country, and I think some of them listen to the show, who think that the birthday person should be picking up the tab because they picked the restaurant and invited people, did the thing. And I just find that to be-

a wild idea. So I don't know. So I responded to him being like, "LOL, of course we're buying your dinner, like duh." But also to not make you feel silly, I have seen on TikTok people complaining about this. So it's just, you know, it's complicated. - These are the same people who show up to a potluck empty handed and complain about the food

I don't like that energy. 1000%. You celebrate someone's birthday, pay for their shit. Yeah. How you should move to the world is if you're with people you like, you want to make it as fun and enjoyable for everyone. Yeah. If you can, and if you have the ability, take care of each other. I was at dinner last night with some colleagues from a,

old job and it was wonderful. I've not been drinking lately. They order a bottle of wine. I split the bottle of wine with them because I enjoyed being a part of the space with them. Yeah, we are too grown to be arguing over how many bites of the salad you had. Yeah, I just... It's over, baby. I can't. There's too much going on in the world to deal with that stuff. So anyway, that's my vibe. Sam, how are you?

My vibe right now is just continuing to marvel at the spectacle that was the Super Bowl. You know, we have a whole episode in the feed right before this. My vibe is still just like absorbing that super monoculture moment. We had Usher. We had Beyonce. We had Taylor. We had Travis. We had those commercials with every celebrity in there. And turns out now the ratings are in. And Zach, the Super Bowl this year is the most viewed television event in Nielsen ratings history.

Since we've begun tracking viewership in this way, this is the biggest TV event ever. According to Nielsen and Adobe Analytics, Sunday's game averaged 123.4 million viewers. And when you adjust for folks who watched at least part of the game across all networks, that was 202.4 million viewers.

And so my takeaway is like, you know, we always complain about the loss of monoculture and it is slipping away. But when monoculture slaps, it's a pimp slap. Like it's big. And like this was a major moment. And I don't know. I'm just still taking that in. It was a big deal and everyone seemed to be invested. To put that in the context with, you know, the world population, 200 million people total watching it. Yeah. The United States population is currently 331 million people. Come on.

So, you know, two thirds of America was watching this game. That is amazing. And it's, you know, we talked a lot about the pluses to that and how we all miss monoculture moments. And I will reaffirm our feelings that this was a good thing. And I'm glad it gave us highs and lows. And there's a lot of complicated bullshit that was inside of it. There were some ads that were bad.

that were bullshit, that should not be there, but that is also America right now. And so I just think it's kind of the most interesting kind of study of where we all are at and who's at the table. And you realize your uncle is racist next door because you see some of these ads are racist too. Before we get to the big topics this week, I want to have Zach tell you all about a special treat coming next week in this feed. Thank you. I would have totally forgot about this. So next week-

Our Hey Sis series continues. Thank you, Ulta Beauty. And our good sis, my dearest sister outside of this podcast is Kimberly Drew. And she is joining us. Kimberly Drew is the author of Black Futures. She is an art critic. You know her on Instagram as Museum Mammy. She is just a force. And she's a huge Vibe Check fan. So bringing her onto the show was...

so nourishing to have someone that loves the show and knows the show so well is a student of the show. I was like, wait, we did say that. We did do that. I love it. And you'll find some fun things out there because what you'll learn in the episode, me, Kimberly and Saeed have had a secret group chat behind Sam Sanders' back. He finds out about it.

Check that out next week. So before we get into this episode, though, we want to thank all of you who have sent us fan mail and reached out to us on social media. We absolutely love hearing from you. So keep them coming at vibecheckatstitcher.com and leave us a review wherever you are listening. I did notice on Spotify, friends, we're almost to a thousand. So if you have a Spotify account, you know, clickety click, click, click over there. On that note, let's jump in, shall we? Let's do it. Let's do it.

I'm not going to lie.

All right, to start, we're going to talk about Rafah. I know a lot of our listeners are following this news closely, so you don't need too much explaining from me. But let's quickly recap the latest in Gaza, in Rafah. And I want to note again, we're taping this Tuesday morning, so things might have changed and gotten worse by the time you hear this. On Monday, Israeli forces launched strikes into the city of Rafah. At least 67 people were killed, and that death toll is expected to climb. State

Staff at a hospital in Rafa say they've already taken in more than 100 injured people.

Israel says that they have begun these strikes to rescue two hostages and they needed to use this attack as cover to do so. But to rescue two hostages by killing at least 67 people, that math is kind of funky. Yeah. No? Anywho. Yeah. Rafah, for those who don't know, is a city in southern Gaza and it's a place that Palestinians have been told to shelter in as northern Gaza has been pretty much leveled after weeks of attacks.

There are now more than 1 million people sheltering in Rafah, a lot of them in tents. And now those Palestinians who were stuck there, they're getting strikes as well. Palestinians still in Gaza are facing an utterly terrible predicament. They have nowhere else to go. Neighboring countries like Egypt won't take them in. And there's just about no inhabitable territory left in Gaza itself.

I want to get into the politics of this and what American politicians are saying about it. But first, Zach, just seeing this news, what's your top line read on this? Whew.

It's so heartbreaking. I know there's been a ton of debates, not really on the show, but outside the show, around what these aggressive attacks from Israel towards a lot of people living in Gaza are. And I know that Netanyahu has pushed back on the Hague and the court saying it's not a genocide. But when you are pushing people in an area where they're locked in,

from north to south. You told them to go to a safe space. They now are in that safe space. And now you're using that safe space for cover to strike them while getting other people in other parts of this area and then not providing any safety warning, all this stuff. You know, this is genocide. This is genocidal. These are really awful attacks because you're doing a blanket attack to bring down a state or a group of people

without any regard to individuals in it. It's just everyone's the enemy and we're killing all of them. And that's what's happening with us right now. And at the same time, Israel is leading an effort to cut off aid funding for Palestinians. Yeah. I mean, it is really rough to watch. I want to talk a little bit about how America is playing in all of this. So the politics basically is Joe Biden right now trying to have it both ways.

his party, Democrats, they are coming apart at the seams over Gaza at this point. And most Democrats and most Americans want to stop to the violence, call it a ceasefire or whatever. And they want this bombardment of Gaza to stop. And Biden has said in the run-up to this strike in Rafah that he wants civilians there protected, but he hasn't called for an outright stop. And America and Biden are still sending weapons funding to Israel. You know,

You know, in a call a few days ago, Biden said that Netanyahu needed a, quote, credible and executable plan for ensuring the safety and support of those sheltering there. But he didn't say Netanyahu don't do it. It just feels toothless. You know, meanwhile, while Biden's doing that, a lot of other folks are taking much stronger stances on all of this. The EU's foreign policy chief, Joseph Borrell, he has suggested cutting arms supplies to Israel to stop this bloodshed. Yeah.

So the EU now is saying just cut off the funding for these weapons. House member AOC of Biden's party, she tweeted the following about the attacks. Quote, clearing RAFA is not war. It is not defense. It is an outright attack on the innocent. And here's the kicker. This one really took me for a loop. The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations appointed by Joe Biden –

said that Israel has an obligation to keep civilians safe. And under current conditions, it can't do it. Therefore, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations said that this operation, quote, cannot proceed. Officials that high appointed by Joe Biden are saying this shouldn't happen. And yet still...

Zach, I mean, it's hard to figure out what Biden's trying to do here or who he's trying to please here or what his mental calculus is here. But do you have any idea? Because I sure don't. I have no idea. I mean, what I think is happening in the meeting that happened earlier this week with the king and queen of Jordan, who, if I remember now weeks and weeks ago when Hamas attacked Afghanistan.

all those Israelis and killed them brutally and did these awful things. The queen and king of Jordan canceled their meeting with Joe Biden, which was pretty stunning to see. Like they were like, don't come, don't be here. But this,

But now they have come to the White House in the wake of these rafa attacks. And Joe Biden's beginning to seemingly open up and change positions. But it seems like he's trying to exhaust every other option besides the one that everyone has been sprinting towards, which is stop the gunfire, stop the bombing, stop it all. And he just is like doing everything he can not to get there. And I get the political strategy of why, because-

He's thinking about voters, donors, all these things. He wants to show that he's done everything that he can before stopping this just because Netanyahu's being so aggressive on the ground. And Israel and U.S. do have a very strong relationship, so he doesn't really want to do an about-face with them. But we're dealing with, you know, if I open my Instagram one more day, and it's going to happen because this is stopping soon.

I'm exhausted by seeing so much death and I'm sure everyone is on all sides. It's just so gruesome. All platforms are filled with it and it just doesn't, it doesn't seem to be stopping. It's getting worse. And it's just awful. Yeah.

I have just been fascinated by the ways in which the American conversation around all of this, at least in traditional news media that we follow this stuff through, seems to be myopic and out of touch with like the rest of the world. I had this really interesting conversation over the weekend with friends. They're both in their 40s, I believe.

They've been dating for years. He is Arab, Moroccan, Muslim. She is white, blonde, Jewish. They're deeply in love and they stand on very different. Now, actually, they don't. They both want the violence to end as well. But they talk about these things in very different ways. Right. So I was talking to both of them over the weekend over drinks about this. And the woman who was Jewish, she said, Sam.

It's just really hard to overstate how, one, I don't want this violence, but two, she said, quote, Israel has lost the world. She said Israel has lost the world. Any kind of goodwill, any kind of favor, all of that that might have been coming towards Israel from the rest of the world, it's been so greatly diminished by these attacks. So greatly diminished. And then her partner, who's a Muslim –

He said, the way y'all even talk about it over here doesn't get at the reality for much of the rest of the world. He said, folks, where I come from, don't call it Hamas. They call it the Palestinian resistance. And I was like, whoa. And so I just I'm wondering what it would take for our national conversation about Rafah, about Gaza, about.

What would it take for us to just open our lenses and open our aperture and really see how this is playing out across the rest of the world? Because if we do that, we see that we are out of lockstep. We are out of consensus. We are the ones that are standing, it seems, on the wrong side of history. What would it take for us to see that? Yeah, I have no idea what it will take. And it just proves, you know, the stance that so many are taking plays into this Western exceptionalism that has...

really, I think destroyed America in many ways. This idea that we are better and that everything we do is leadership and that people should be following us and us not owning up to our own fault. Like we are not perfect. We are very flawed. We are not making the best decisions all the time. We hurt a lot of people and we're continuing to do that because we're not owning up to our own shit right now. And not looking at how we are perpetuating real harm and violence systematically, directly, all these ways. And,

And so I just, I don't know, this is for us to untangle all that and let the aperture widen. It would make us all need to radically reimagine what we think America is and what America should be doing on a global stage, which I think is an existential crisis that we're facing outside of this. We're facing with China. We're facing with so many other countries. And I don't know what the future looks like within all of this. Well, and, you know, I think it's like, how can Americans have conversations about hard things in which you get to say words? Oh.

All the words that need to be said. I remember when this first popped off in L.A., in Hollywood, people were losing jobs left and right just because of saying a word or two that you weren't supposed to say. It's wild. And I think we've moved past that moment. But the fact that that moment even happened, I find troubling. I find it troubling and I hope –

that at some point we start to just have real and frank conversations that get at the meat of what we're doing and our place in the world right now.

Yeah. And that requires us to like, you know, pay witness to these things, to feel them in our bodies, to put ourselves in these people's shoes. And I think what we're seeing with these RAFA attacks is just like an inability to connect humanely with people living in RAFA. You know, if there was just one second that Benjamin Netanyahu considered, you know, oh, I know that we have to get these hostages and those people do need to come home. They desperately need to be released. There needs to be a deal. But

The fact that he didn't think like, oh, I'm going to kill more children. What are we at? Over 20,000 children, something. It's something ridiculous. The total death toll is nearing 30,000. Yeah. 30,000. We're not even considering these are individual lives. These are people. This is like one of you and I being killed. That's a big thing. These are real actions. So we're not even thinking of them that way. We're thinking that it's just like in the abstract, in the theoretical.

Last note on this chat I had with my friends, one who's Muslim, one who's Jewish. My Muslim friend was like, yeah, when I talk to folks that are over there, close to events over there, it's not just that 30,000 people have been killed. It's that at this point, pretty much every Palestinian in their small extended family has lost at least somebody. Everyone's lost at least somebody. When you have conditions like that, what are you setting up your youth to grow into?

What are you setting them up to gravitate towards as they mature? How do you grow up in that kind of situation and not see what America is doing

as just, you know, pure terror. - Yeah, I agree. - And then these folks grow up and they want to respond to it. It's like you are breeding a new generation of hostility. - 1000%. And I don't know, I don't have the answers and this may not be the most eloquent thing, but I just been thinking a lot about us as black Americans and what you and I have had to go through our whole lives growing up in the South and how, you know, we've had to be in community with people who hate us, who don't want us to exist 'cause we're black, because we're queer, because all these things.

And however, the American project required us to find commonalities. And I have found commonalities with my family, with my neighbors. And I have faith that we can build bridges across vast divides. I am not saying my experience as a black queer kid from Tennessee is the same as what's going on in the Middle East.

However, I think humans can find a way if we dedicate ourselves to the practice of solving this divide and these issues and building a bridge, trying. And I just don't see bridge building happening. And that's my big issue with this, that I just see bombs dropping, no bridges being built and no resources being given and no pause to talk about it. And that just...

is worrisome because I don't believe in state violence. I don't believe in prisons. I'm very like anti-violence across the board. So there's no reason why any of this should be happening. But I think at the end of the day, I think why so many black Americans have been relating to the Palestinians is that we know what we're being asked to do and we know how impossible it is, but there's also a possibility within that. We also know what separate but equal looks like.

You know, Ta-Nehisi Coates said it better. As a black person, when you are over there seeing the way that Palestinians and Israelis have to interact, it has some really weird, troubling echoes to America's racist past. That's what I'm going to say. And black folks see that.

We could talk about this all day. I am grateful that we have this space to talk about the most pressing event of this moment. So I'm glad that we did. I'm glad that we did. All right. Hoping for an end to the violence. All right, listeners, we're going to take a break. When we come back, a total switch of the gears. Valentine's Day.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands. I

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture.

And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's change leaders on their Instagram page, WeAreGolden.

Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.

All right, listeners, we're back. And now we're switching gears and we're going to be talking about rom-coms making a comeback, but at large, romance making a comeback, it seems, in our lives. And what are some pitfalls into that cultural moment that we can see coming? Because Sam and I have now lived enough years to see the ups and downs of romance being hot and it being culture. Rollercoaster, baby. Rollercoaster of love and hate. Yeah.

So to begin, I want to just lay some context in terms of the genre of rom-com or romantic comedies. This genre of film really took off in the 1980s, 1990s, and early 2000s.

And they also dominate all the movie charts. You know, Pretty Woman starring Julia Roberts, which is a movie about a sex worker falling in love during a job. Grossed over $470 million when it was released. That is Marvel numbers, everybody. These are huge movies. Yeah. And like for those who weren't around, you know how the way now every summer there's a big Marvel blockbuster and that like sets the stage for the whole summer of movies. Yeah.

In the 90s, there was that same energy around Julia Roberts' rom-coms. Oh, yeah. She had a stretch of years where every summer she had a blockbuster rom-com. That was the power of rom-coms in America. And then, you know, for a while, it felt like, Zach, with the rise of streaming, folks were saying, well, people will never go to a theater to watch a rom-com again. They'll just watch it

on Netflix at home. But it seems like you're saying now they're back in movie theaters? Yeah, so now the data is showing us that they're making a little comeback. They are not at the heights of when Harry Met Sally came out, Pretty Woman, Waiting to Exhale, all these other very iconic films. We're not at those levels, but we're inching slowly closer to that. So just in the past few months, the movie Anyone But You, starring Sidney Sweeney and Glenn Powell. Awful, I went and saw it, awful, almost left. However, that theater was packed with people.

With the most beautiful Gen Z kids all there. So excited to see it. That movie just crossed, I think last week, $170 million worldwide. That's a lot of money. That puts it on par with Ticket to Paradise, which was Julia Roberts' big comeback movie last year. Which I loved. Which I loved. Which also was $170 million. So, Sidney Sweeney is doing Julia Roberts numbers, which gives us an indication that the rom-com may be back.

And I'm excited. But Sam, you, you and I grew up very differently, which we've been talking about this week a lot because you grew up very religious. I grew up within a religious space, but my family was very loose with it. I watched Friday, the movie when I was five. Like I was in the culture very early. Yeah, I was in it. But that means I watch rom-coms obsessively. They were my favorite thing. For you, were you a big viewer growing up?

So we were very Pentecostal, which meant that the only pop culture that we consumed officially was about God. So only gospel and Christian music. On TV, we really didn't watch anything that was worse than like PG or PG-13. But my mother would always make some exceptions. And I'll never forget, she made an exception for Julia Roberts' My Best Friend's Wedding.

And I watched that movie with her and I'll never forget by the end of it, she's weeping. And I'm like, girl, why are you crying? And she's like, Julia should have got him. Julia should have got him. But I'm like, you're right, girl.

But the power of Julia Roberts, she pulled my holy roly mother out of the church house for a few hours to watch that movie. Her power. I mean, we have to just really circle Julia Roberts here. Julia Roberts got all of the world to watch a movie about a woman being a sex worker in the time when no one was talking about that. That is incredible. Let's go through her big rom-com hits. Pretty Woman. She plays a prostitute with a heart of gold.

Runaway bride. She's a runaway bride. My best friend's wedding. She tries to break up her best friend's wedding. This girl is trouble. With Cameron Diaz.

Yes. This girl is trouble. And we wanted all of it. We loved it. And everyone wanted her to be in everything. And then the next film that I loved with her was Notting Hill. Oh. She was messy in Notting Hill as well. She was also messy there. She played a celebrity that decided to have a little side piece with a non-famous person so she could live her little fantasy and used an abuse tip. We love her. She's our original problematic fave, I think. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. Why those films of hers are so interesting to talk about today is because they were escapists for people. There were these worlds and lives that no one really lived. Most Americans haven't engaged in sex work on the Hollywood strip in L.A.

A lot of them are not superstars living in London, filming a movie and start sleeping with the guy that runs the travel bookstore. But so a lot of us step into other people's lives. I love how well you know these plots. You are really in it. Listen, you know something else about rom-coms, what I love? And a producer told me this once and it just blew my mind. He said, rom-coms should always seek to answer one question about love. So My Best Friend's Wedding.

should you marry your best friend? You know, pretty woman was, can you marry the sex worker? Because you know a lot of guys do. Runway bride was, is it okay to run away from your wedding? Is it okay to run away from your wedding?

But each rom-com should be, when you boil it down, should ask one question about love. I'd like to ask you, Sam, what does the rise of rom-coms coming back say about love today, in your opinion? Yeah. You know, it's really, it's hard to specifically tack movies to meaning for current history because by the time we see a movie, it's been in development for several years. Right.

So we're catching something later, like the seed was planted years before. But you notated in the notes that the decline of the rom-com also coincided with the rise of Marvel. And these are two very different types of movies. And Marvel and this idea of a superhero who could literally save the world –

happens in the aftermath of 9-11 and the war on terror. And so I wonder how much, and I want you to talk more about this because you had in the notes, like this move from like Marvel supremacy to possible rom-com supremacy, is it actually a reaction to the way America feels about it standing in the world? I don't know. Yeah, I love that. I think that's right. And I think it also speaks to

The fact that we all have been traumatized over the past few years. All of us went through- We went from Trump to pandemic. Like, it's been seven years of crazy. So much crazy. And we're still dealing with a pandemic. Like, right now, today, Sam and I are over here talking about dealing with different illnesses. Yes. So many things. I was just telling Zach, one of my friend's kids-

got the flu and COVID at the same time last week, and he was laid out for five days. Five days, a child. But you know, our bodies are tired, literally like battlegrounds right now. They are going through a lot, a lot, lot, lot. And what a rom-com gives you is escapism from the body, but also through the body. It tells you pleasure exists, love exists, fantasy can happen. Happy endings exist. Happy endings exist.

Happy endings happen. Like no matter what you go through, the end is going to feel good. Even that movie, Bros, our big critique of Bros that we've been saying since day one, the movie should have flipped rom-com on its head and he should have ended single and happy that he's single and not with anybody. There you go.

That would have been radical for a queer rom-com because that's a lot of queer men we know and they are living their best lives by being single, going on lots of dates and just going about their life. However, it had to fit into this heteronormative kind of formula of, you know, you're going to go through some stuff, it's going to be tumultuous and at the end, everything's perfected.

And I think we as a people, because we've been going through and continue to go through so much are hoping that that exists right now. - And also, you know, so much content coming out right now lives in the wake of prestige TV and peak TV. There was a moment when for 15 years, all the stuff that was called good TV was basically some different version of the Sopranos.

We loved antiheroes. We loved dark stuff. We only thought that good TV and movies were like dark with antiheroes. Yeah. Like Sex and the City, Carrie Bradshaw is an antihero. You would not want to be her friend, actually. Exactly. She would be a terrible friend. Yeah. And I think the pendulum has swung and we just want

to like believe in TV and film characters earnestly and like them earnestly. And it's not a guilty pleasure and it's not bad. It's just where we're at right now. So I embrace it. Give me more rom-coms. Yeah, I love it. And I think that's, I mean, I would argue that Taylor and Travis have been so successful and they're very short romance, by the way, everyone, this has only been months going on.

But I do think our obsession, I mean, we brought up the fact earlier, the Super Bowl hit historic numbers. A lot of that was driven by Taylor and Travis's love affair, that their love made us really interested in sports and culture in this moment. So it just shows you the power of the fairy tale is still prevalent in culture. And I think that's okay generally. However, Sam, the reason-

The reason why I'm so surprised about rom-coms coming back is because I thought Gen Z, which is supposed to be so queer, so anti-normativity, all these things. The students of queer theory, which I love, were supposed to change all of this. But they're all finding refuge in things that we grew up with. What do you think about this return? You know what? Quiet as it's kept. Gen Z, like the rest of us, loves nostalgia.

Rom-coms are nostalgic. These are the same kids walking around in Y2K core. Come on. That's so true. Come on. And this is not just endemic to Gen Z. I remember when I was in my 20s as a millennial. When you are entering the world as a quote-unquote new generation, half of your generation and half of you wants to chart this new path, but the other half of you is still informed by what came before. When we were young, we were all watching that 70s show and wearing bell-bottoms.

This is the way it goes. This is the way it goes. So even as these generations chart a new course, they're also reading from a playbook written by their forebears. And that's how youth works and that's how community works and that's how society works. You make new while taking the old as well. And so what I like about Gen Z is that they're pretty real about what they like and they don't like. I think a lot of Gen Z are watching these rom-coms and not overthinking it.

Enjoy it. Let it wash over you. Just turning the brain off. It's like watching Real Housewives. You're like, you know what? Yes, turn the brain off. Yeah. Good for y'all. Low stakes. If you like it, go ahead and enjoy it. Low stakes fun. I'm all about that. I love it. Especially as we enter this Valentine's Day week in which people are going to be making the pressure on that day. High stakes. Yeah. Low stakes. Which I would

love to end there because rom-coms have fed us since we were growing up. Like when I watched the movie Serendipity, which I also, as I'm talking to you, I'm realizing I know a lot about rom-coms. I'm just like pulling them out of the ether. You really do. But Serendipity, Kate Beckinsale movie, John Cusack, where they meet, they have like a meet-cute and then years later they come back together. And it's like this really high stakes thing about finding love before one of them gets married and finding the other one again. And, you know, rom-coms fed us that

Christmas, Valentine's Day should be filled with love and passion and sex and all these things. However, most of us are not gonna experience that today. It's not. And it leads us, growing up and I didn't have a Valentine's, I would feel so heartbroken

I now have a Valentine and we're probably ordering Chinese for dinner. It's not that romantic. So, you know, you've been talking about, you know, you're in your single girls era right now and you're now facing a Valentine's Day. How are you navigating this? What advice do you have for our listeners that are feeling some pressure from the love world around them? Yeah. I mean, I think going back to this idea that we mentioned earlier about Gen Z liking to watch rom-coms but maybe not taking them literally, that's the work for Valentine's Day.

I like some of the trappings around Valentine's Day. I think roses are cute. I like chocolate, you know, but it's like I know that that's not necessary for my day to be a good day. And I know that I don't have to do that. So it's kind of just like you enjoy the artifice and the spectacle if you want to. But if not, you can just do you. I think a lot of the work in being single, a lot of the work in making romance work for you, a lot of the work in navigating Valentine's Day is actually just saying to yourself, what do I really want?

And that's a simple question, but it's a hard question because on a lot of topics, on a lot of things, we think we know what we want, but we're actually just performing what we think society wants us to do. And so how can you get to a point where you can have a conversation with yourself and clearly articulate what you want on Valentine's Day, in your love life, whatever, and then let that be your North Star. And if you want to go see a rom-com, go see a rom-com. But

But if you want to just, you know, stay at home and watch Housewives and order Chinese food, that's okay too. I think that love and American notions of love and the idea of the rom-com, it does this thing where it replaces our wants with these fairytale wants and what we think our wants should be. The fairytale isn't bad.

But the fairy tale isn't all there is. And what you do in your life and in your love life should always have your wants and needs as a North Star. And a great exercise that I try to do in my life is when I'm faced with a conundrum about what to do, whatever it is, I say to myself, Sam, what do you really want?

And if I can't say out loud what I really want, keep thinking, baby, because you're not there yet. That's it. And that's the work you should do. And that is kind of the most stunning thing I found out when I became an adult or into the age in which I was like, oh, I'm an adult, no longer a kid, is that the hardest thing to find out every day is what do I want?

because the world tells you all day what they want. People tell you what they need from you as you run with everyone's job. You work an extra hour, someone's gonna ask for another hour after that. People are always taking, taking, taking, but you, your big hurdle in life is to be like, what do I wanna take? What do I wanna make happen? And that's what will lead you to love at the end of the day. - We sometimes think of that as selfish, but it's not because what I'm saying is always know what you want, but understand you might not always get what you want.

Even if you don't always get what you want, knowing what you want makes life so much easier. Yeah, it becomes a refuge. And it's also within knowing what you want, hope takes birth. You can then, if you don't have it, you can see it in the sky, you can see it on the horizon, and it gives you something to work towards and look at. But not knowing feels like being in a dark room.

room it doesn't serve any anyone so you know as i began this episode today i don't know what i want to do for my birthday so now i'm letting all the pressures of birthdays crush my decision zach you know and if you want me to just take care of all of it for you come to the backyard baby i got you i appreciate about what you want but with that before we go is there a rom-com you want to recommend to anyone my best friend you love my best friend's wedding it's great it's so good

They got singing. They got baseball. They got Julia Roberts. They got a waterboat. They're in Chicago. Her hair is perfect. Watch that movie. Get your life. That's such a good one. I love that. Mine would be, and I have a long list of them, but the funniest one to me to this day is The Preacher's Wife with Whitney Houston. It's also a Christmas movie. She was trying to sleep with a ghost.

sleep with a ghost angel with her husband right there and he knew it like it blows my mind and they did this whole movie with a gospel soundtrack with a gospel soundtrack i just i love people are not well it's but it's so good it's so good her like literally having an affair yes with an angel although if a sexy ghost played by denzel washington

Came to my house. I'm freaking the ghost. Chantel says we got to wrap. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. We have to take a break and I need to take a breath as I think about Mr. Denzel Washington. But don't you all go anywhere. We'll be right back. We'll be right back.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden. Every day, our world gets a little more connected, but a little further apart. But then, there are moments that remind us to be more human.

Thank you for calling Amica Insurance. Hey, I was just in an accident. Don't worry, we'll get you taken care of. At Amica, we understand that looking out for each other isn't new or groundbreaking. It's human. Amica. Empathy is our best policy.

We are back. And before we end the show, we'd each like to share something that's helping us keep our vibes right this week. And sadly, we do not have a poem from Saeed Jones. And you know what me and Sam Sanders are not going to do? Try to read a poem instead of Saeed Jones. Although let me clear the air right now because speaking of poetry, I sent the group chat some really, really sad song lyrics last week. And I was like, damn, this slaps. And nobody wrote back. Yeah.

I think I was sick and I was like, I can't deal with sadness right now. I'm throwing up right now. It was a song about breakups and old girl was going through it. Her name is Chapel Roan, if you care. I love Chapel Roan. Her newest album is just phenomenal. And she makes Riot Grrrl breakup anthems. I love it. Chapel Roan. Anywho. She has a great look. She has a great look. Well, what is your rec this week?

You know what? Actually, this would be perfect for people who need a low-key Valentine's Day evening. If you don't want to go out, if you don't have someone to hang out with or don't want to hang out with somebody, start watching Mr. and Mrs. Smith on Amazon Prime Video. This is the reboot of the franchise with Donald Glover and Maya Erskine as the leads. And Donald Glover and a writer named Francesca Sloan wrote the whole thing.

I was just expecting the worst. I don't know why. I mean, I'll be honest. I find Donald Glover tedious sometimes. And as much as I loved Atlanta, seasons three and four challenged me in ways that just made me uncomfortable. And I was like, where are we going here? Mr. and Mrs. Smith is not that. It goes down pretty easy. It's fun to watch. The writing's really smart. And

And it never tries to get too complicated. They execute a very simple premise the entirety of the show. It's eight episodes. The finale gets crazy, but then it gives you cliffhanger in a fun way.

And I was surprised by how good of chemistry Maya and Donald had. I really liked it. They're great together. They're great together. I was like, are you guys together in real life? Because you seem to really enjoy each other. And they look beautiful together. And also, Michaela Cole makes an appearance in episode six, I think. Sarah Paulson shows up. Yes, as a therapist. It's incredible. It's incredible.

And Donald Glover is looking good. Oh, he looks amazing. I want all his clothing. I also, when this, you know, this project has been complicated for Amazon for a while. Because Donald Glover is tedious. He was going to make the show at first with Phoebe Waller-Bridge and she was like, no, bye. She said bye and like left. So, you know, then he had to find other people. So,

I thought it was going to be not good and it's incredible. Plus they have budget. They're in Lake Como. Come on now. With all the budget. And let me tell you, they didn't just have that scene in Lake Como. As the Lake Como scene is ending, the song they play is a song called Lake Como and that's expensive to get the rights to. Yep. I mean, they were just spending money. Spending money. Amazon. Jeff Bezos said, we want to make this realistic. I want my experience in Lake Como to be in the show. It

Anywho, Zach, what's your rec this week? So my rec is actually a movie that's coming out right now, today on Valentine's Day. It's a movie called The Taste of Things, and it stars Juliette Minoche, who's a very famous French actress. Oh yeah, she's good. She's fantastic, but the movie is in French. There's subtitles, which is...

get over it. I don't understand people who don't like subtitles. It's like, I don't know. Once I get, you start reading, it's so easy, but people don't like it because it requires them to put their iPhones down. 1000%. Like you have to pay attention. That's why I love them. So anyway, the movie is stunning. I'm going to say it's the first great movie of 2024. I got to see it a few weeks ago. It's,

It is about two people, a cook and a chef and a man and a woman, and they're in love with each other, but they're in love with each other for 20 years, but they never act on it.

until the end of the 20 years. And through this relationship and this tension between the two of them, they make some of the best dishes in their careers. I thought you were going to say they make some of the best sex. That happens later. That happens later. That happens after, you know, the big dinners. But it just... I've never seen food filmed this way in a lot of the movie...

is kind of this like choreographing of cooking in a kitchen and just everything shot so beautifully. And food, if people don't know this, is one of the hardest things to film because- It has a shelf life. It has a shelf life. That's why most things are made out of like icing when you see it. It's not actual food, but this is real food and they're even releasing a cookbook

to match all the food that you see. Oh, that's cool. It's really cool. But the movie comes out in parts of the US today in major cities. And it's a perfect film to go see for Valentine's Day if you're looking for something on the news.

I'm like Google image searching it. The costumes are cute too. Everything's great. It's stunning. It's a stunning movie. All right, listeners, let us know what you're vibing to, what you're watching, reading, listening to, how you're surviving Valentine's Day. Just check in with us. You can email us whenever you want. Vibecheck at Stitcher.com. Vibecheck at Stitcher.com.

All right, listeners, thank you so much for checking out this week's episode of Vibe Check. You can listen to new episodes of this show every Wednesday on Amazon Music. And also, don't forget to tell a friend, IRL, about the show. IRL works best. You think your review does the work? It does some of it. You think your tweet or social post does the work? It does some of it. The best thing you can do is evangelize this podcast to your friends in the flesh. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. I love it. And I also love when people send us, you know, screenshots of sharing it with someone else. Or actually, I got a text from a friend in Morocco who was playing Vibe Check in his car as he was driving through goats. And it was the most amazing video. I'm going to send it to you. But send us stuff like that. We love seeing it out in the world. It's really fun. Yeah. Anyway, huge thank you to our producer, Shanta Holder, engineer Sam Kiefer, and Marcus Hom for our theme music and sound design.

Also special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda Management and Production. As always, we want to hear from you. So don't forget, you can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com and keep in touch with us on Instagram at at Zach Staff, at Sam Sanders and at The Ferocity. You can also use the hashtag, hashtag vibecheckpod.

All right. That's this episode. Stay tuned for another one next week and also our special episode of Hey Sis, which comes out on Monday. Until then, goodbye. All blessings to Julia Roberts, our queen. Stitcher. At Amica Insurance, we know it's more than just a house. It's your home, the place that's filled with memories. The early days of figuring it out.

To the later years of still figuring it out. For the place you've put down roots, trust Amica Home Insurance. Amica. Empathy is our best policy. Cheers to a great day and this ice cold Corona. You know what would make this day even better? My grandma's carne asada. Throw in some music. We can watch the game. Or we could keep it simple. Corona. La vida mas fina. Get your Corona at ordercorona.com. Relax responsibly. Corona Extra Beer. Imported by Corona Import. Chicago, Illinois.