Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.
I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just Black Gen Z, but Black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders Awards.
On their Instagram page, we are golden.
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Sayid, just tell the folks you are like dealing with some stuff today, but you're pushing through. I'm pushing through. I woke up and I got to be honest, I'm not feeling well. And I need to get it together because I'm flying to St. Louis tonight. But who the child? So that's your vibe. That's my vibe. Persevering. I'm summoning all advice. I've got the ice chips. I've got the mint tea. Wait, can you share with us the cocktail you're drinking? Because it's from our dear friend Jenna Wertham. Yeah, Jay. Most people probably listen to it when
point. Yeah, so basically I woke up and my stomach hurts. My stomach is pissed at me. And this is just like a fun mocktail to drink, to be honest. Seltzer water and bitters. I'm drinking peach bitters. It tastes very good. But I remembered last year, Jenna was like, oh yeah, anytime your stomach is upset, it's really good. And it's tasty. I'm actually genuinely enjoying it. Then I have some mint tea. So those are my... That's my vibe. I'm calling on the ancestral group text wisdom and vibes to get through it.
Zach, how are you feeling? I'm pretty good today. I have been incredibly anxious because something people should know about me is that the one weird trigger I have in the news cycle, you can talk to me about anything just due to my background working in the media. But when you talk about nuclear war, I'm like, where's the bunker? We're going. I'm leaving. I got to go to the mountains. It's just because it's been such a topic this week with what's happening in Ukraine and Russia, which we're not going to go into deep this week, maybe another time. But
I just get like, when it was the North Korea stuff a few years ago, girl, I was every day like, I'm going to Palm Springs and hiding right now. Yeah, I mean, yeah, we're not going to be talking deep on Ukraine and Russia today. We'll cross that bombed out bridge when we get to it. But wait, so a trigger implies something in the past happened.
I don't know what it is. Who hurt you? I need to go into EMDR to figure out like why it just like, and my boyfriend's been on a work trip. So I've just been by myself over here reading the news about nuclear war. And I'm just like spiraling. Okay. The craziest thing that you should not read. The one thing you should not look up or Google Zach or listeners. Well, don't tell him.
is how quickly we would all just be dust if Russia or us hit the button. See. Like, the speed at which it's just the end of a Michael Bay movie, y'all don't even want to go there. See. I think that sounds great. I got to tell you, I'm interested about... It's like Ethan Breen.
I'm anxious about a lot of things. I really am. Many, many things freak me out. But the thing that I find comforting about nuclear annihilation is it's instantaneous, basically. And it's not like it's just to me often like death is like, oh, everyone moves on without you. Will you be remembered? Life goes on. It's like, well, y'all ain't gonna be here either. We all gonna be at the after party. So I'm just like, it's literally the one thing where I'm like, it's fine.
But that also gives me anxiety because that makes me think like we're all going to die. We're going to show up to the gates of heaven. It's going to be like the hottest club in town and I have to wait in line. I have to wait in line. No, I hate lines. I'm not doing that. Well, that did make me feel better. Thank you for that. Yes, it's quick and then we'll be in line to a club called heaven.
Midsentence. Well, Sam, how are you doing? Saeed's feeling a little ill. I'm a little anxious. How are you? I'm feeling good. You know, we talked about Janet Jackson on the show a few episodes ago because her album, The Velvet Rope, turned 25. Since we taped that episode, Janet released a deluxe edition of The Velvet Rope, which features a bunch of remixes that some folks may have heard and some folks may have not. But one of the remixes on the deluxe Velvet Rope
is a really, really fun and funky Missy Elliott, Timbaland remix of Go Deep. And I've been playing it for the last week. It takes me to a place. My vibe is that song. Go deep in the deep night.
I'll be honest. I've listened to a few of the remixes and I didn't like the ones I listened to. So I'm going to have to. Okay. It's Go Deep. And you know, we love that song. We sure do. It is so good. We're always talking about the house party. If we ever get like millions and millions of dollars to host a vibe check live event, it's pretty clear. We want to recreate the Go Deep house party. If
If anyone can assist, hit us up. All right, well, I'm glad that we're all here at least and alive. And for all of you that have been sitting there wondering what we're going to be talking about today, since we're not talking about nuclear war, we're talking about the obvious Kunye West controversies that have been happening this week.
We have to give credit where credit is due. Yes, I did not write that line. Chantel coined the term Kunye West. It is very smart. It's really smart. I love it. Put that on a t-shirt, you know? Don't put that on a t-shirt. What? Don't give these people any ideas. I'm feeling chaotic, but we're going to be talking about marijuana and Joe Biden too later on in the episode as well. Okay. All right. So one black man doing badly and one white guy trying to get it right. Upside down world. I'll accept it for now. Okay.
Before we get into those two topics, we want to thank all of you who have sent us fan mail or tweeted us or DM'd us. We love hearing from all of y'all. And in that spirit, we're doing a very special Ask Us Anything episode. We're literally opening the lines to let VibeCheck listeners ask us whatever questions y'all have. Email your questions to vibecheckatstitcher.com. You
You can write your questions in the body of an email to us, or even better, send us a voice memo and we might play it on the show. That's vibecheckatstitcher.com. Ask us anything you want. With that, let's get into it. Let's do it. All right. So to kick things off, the Kanye of it all.
There's so much to discuss, but just to catch you up quickly, last week during Paris Fashion Week, Kanye Oryea debuted a t-shirt for his fashion line bearing the phrase White Lives Matter. You probably also saw the picture with Candace Owens, Republican Black Trump.
Troll is the only way I can think to describe her. Of kind of like, frankly, the Christian Walker ilk, if you've been listening along these last couple of weeks. And then he suggested on Instagram that P Diddy was, quote, being controlled by Jewish people. Ye's account was restricted by Instagram immediately because, I mean, that's just like blatant.
And then early on Sunday morning or late Saturday, he went on Twitter and lashed out against Jewish people again in a series of tweets. The only tweet I saw, and it was right before his account was locked up and deactivated, he said that he was going to
quote, go DEFCON 3 on Jewish people, which again, that is incredibly dangerous language. Obviously, it's anti-Semitic. Like, what are we doing? What are we doing? His account was immediately locked up for violating Twitter's policies. And then, Zach, you had an update that
I thought was even more disturbing. Yeah. So in the midst of all this chaos, Kanye West showed up to his daughter North's basketball game over the weekend, which Kim was there and other members of the Kardashians were there. And he was also wearing this t-shirt and through his own social media posts, he has revealed the school in which his kids go to, which was not public knowledge.
And this is all an effort for him to harass his own family into releasing his kids that he shares with Kim Kardashian to go to his school, Donda Academy, which is an uncredited academy with a principal that's never even taught kids. It just kind of seems like a scam or a pyramid scheme. But he's using his own platform to harass his own family and put his kids in danger. It has caused the school to bring in more security, which Kim Kardashian is personally paying for. So things are not well in the land of Yeh.
And like, this seems crazy, but if you back up a bit, it's just the latest in a string of crazy from Kanye. So you'll recall he put the Confederate flag on his merchandise in like 2013. He visited the Trump White House in 2018 and embraced the language of the men's rights movement.
One of his publicists threatened a Georgia election worker in 2020 trying to overturn the election on Trump's behalf. And during his own brief run for president, don't forget, Kanye did that too. He suggested that abortion rights was black genocide. He wanted to mandate prayer in schools and he called vaccines the
Right. And he's reiterated many of those toxic ideas as recently as last week on Tucker Carlson on primetime television. Exactly. And so my question with someone like Kanye West, who has been in a really weird place for years now, it's like, at what point do the systems he operates in change?
Stop him or say you're cut off or say it's over. You know, he still is a billionaire. He still has business ventures that are bringing him in money.
at every turn. He still, even after being publicly racist for years, is allowed to go do a show at a thing like Paris Fashion Week. I wonder at what point do the institutions that prop him up say enough is enough, or do they just not do that? Yeah. I think for me, people probably on the surface are like, how is he being so racist and still becomes rich? How is he racist and people still support him? And I'm like, you want evidence that white supremacy is a structure? Look at Kanye West.
The more he's leaned in over the past few years, he became a billionaire in the midst of all of this. He's only gotten more powerful, more interesting to people as he's leaned into this rhetoric, which probably is fueling his lean to the right. So that's where I'm like, he may have mental health issues. He may be dealing with a lot. But at the end of the day, his actions and the ways in which he profits
financially and politically and socially, are through the subjugation of black people now, which is a complete turnabout from his music from the beginning coming out of Chicago. And I know that his mother died 15 years ago, but kind of enough is enough now. And I think these systems have to take a second and be like, like Anna Wintour herself has now kind of pushed him aside, even though she built him up the past few years. They're now rethinking it, but it may be too late. He is very powerful. And now the right has their token black man to kind of tout. Right.
Something I think a lot about with Kanye is, you know, the journey is a fascinating, alluring story. Like how does a young Black man from the South side of Chicago, we know about his mother and the incredible person she was, an academic, a scholar who seemed to raise him with such integrity. And of course, like, you know, his early music was very evocative and seemed to really call out
a lot of these same structures. The journey from that point to where we are now, it's wild and it's kind of interesting to think about. But I think that in the end, it's unproductive because as I see it now in 2022, this is fascist rhetoric.
You know, inadvertent or not, the function of the rhetoric he's using, whether it's white lives matter, whether it's calling abortion, genocide, you know, like this is fascist rhetoric and we know how fascism plays out. And I was reading this morning about the phenomenon known as fascist creep, which is to say how fascism moves, it creeps up on you. And one scholar I was reading pointed out that revenge and resentment are
are fascism's prime emotions, revenge and resentment. And then when I started thinking about the violent threats against Pete Davidson, just all of the spite, the venom that is just so much of part of Kanye's rhetoric, I was like, this is just straight up fascism. So I've lately tried to begin to move myself away from trying to
Yeah.
Yeah. Well, and this is the thing that I hope these conversations about many public figures moving towards fascism, I hope these conversations can become more holistic and like connect the dots. Yes. So one thing I've really been interested in is how there were some clues about where Kanye might end up from the early, early, early albums and songs and lyrics. A lot of these lyrics that were thought of as like woke and conscious rap, it was just this young black man who,
comparing himself constantly to whiteness and wealth and the pursuit of white wealth. And it was all about chasing the trappings of white wealth and fame.
And so some of those lyrics, when you look back, you're like, oh, well, of course he would end up here. I also think it's important when we talk about the creep of fascism and figures like Kanye West, you have to acknowledge the connection between misogyny, anti-blackness, and anti-Semitism, especially the connection between anti-blackness and anti-Semitism.
Even when you see a black man like Kanye West say Jews are bad, which is basically what he was saying on these tweets.
One might say, oh, well, he is doing the same thing to Jews that white nationalists do to Jews. But what Kanye doesn't get really is that there is no true white nationalism without anti-Semitism and anti-blackness going hand in hand, being tied together. White nationalists believe that Jews are orchestrating the white genocide.
and that Jews are organizing all the other minority groups, black, Latinos, and Asians to overthrow the white race. This conspiracy theory is so prevalent and so long standing that during the civil rights movement, white nationalists claimed that the NAACP itself was a Jewish plot.
And so to see someone like Kanye say what he's saying about Jews, one, he doesn't understand that connection and doesn't understand that the same people who prop him up because he's an anti-Semite will also use that same rhetoric to keep him down. What I'm discouraged by is how coverage of Kanye West and what he's doing doesn't connect those dots.
You know, covering the outrage is not enough. What do you do next? How do you fight it? How do you stop it? And how do you give some context to folks so that they can be much more informed and able to fight against it? I've been thinking a lot about what it means to cover fascism in this era of the rise of fascism. And I was on Positive America about two weeks ago talking about Maggie Haberman's new book,
And I've been thinking about her a lot and what her reporting means a lot. And I think that like her kind of reporting, I think for a long time, we've all thought was enough. Not all of us thought that. Yes, but a lot have. But this idea that like, well. A lot of important people have though. Yes, a lot of important people. This thinking was that, well, Maggie's doing the important work because she's saying everything that Trump is doing.
Right. That's not enough. It's like the palace intrigue, the daily update. So saying he said this, he tweeted that, he called this person, he did that. That does not serve the public if you aren't also talking about the larger systems and structures at play, what's going on behind the scenes. And I just find that with the discussion of all these men, and it's usually men, Kanye West, Donald Trump,
Elon Musk, Peter Thiel. Herschel Walker. Herschel Walker. This outrage machine of coverage distracts us from the larger, bigger connective tissue and connecting the dots, and that's what's going to save us. And I want more of that. We've made an entertainment economy out of black men doing bad things, and that's what's playing into it while that's –
providing cover for white supremacy just to keep building itself and building itself. So I think people need to learn that this is becoming entertainment to you so that it distracts you so you don't engage with it. And think about who's the Kanye West in your life? Who's the Herschel Walker around you? How can you disrupt these things on an individual level? And can I say something personally that I feel comfortable saying because we're three Black queer people who be knowing? Something that I just have to be honest about is
I have such rage that I'm trying not to let curdle into bitterness about men like Kanye, Dave Chappelle, Tory Lanez. Black men who, the thing about black people, we love black men. We love our brothers. We love our fathers. We love our uncles. We love our cousins. We know what we're all up against. We know what black men in this country are up against better than anyone, right? We
We're the first ones to show up when shit goes down because we know the odds are stacked against black men in this country in a uniquely lethal way. And so to see someone like Kanye take advantage of the grace and compassion, black people in particular are willing to extend to black men.
To spit in our faces, to insult like that black woman journalist at Vogue or the countless, countless times he's thrown black people in our humanity under the bus to make more money so that he can sell more shoes or those ugly trash bag hoodie. It just makes me so angry. And I think it says so much about how
fascism and sexism, misogyny, anti-Semitism, how it just warps your humanity. That the very people who are willing to always give you a second chance, always willing to contextualize and hear you out, they're the ones that you betray the most. It makes me so angry.
Well, and I just hope that people use this moment to really, really, really talk about the insidious nature of anti-Semitism. Yes. We see it kind of rear its head in some big and large ways every few months and everyone denounces it. But once you really read up on what it is and how it appears, it is present a lot.
It is present in a lot of our political rhetoric about liberals and money and who controls what. I really hope that Americans watching Kanye West act a fool just do a few minutes of Googling on anti-Semitism and white nationalism and how these things are connected. Because what I hope comes from this is that we can have conversations with our friends and loved ones about how this shit takes root, about racism.
how it is prevalent and how it must constantly be spoken against and fought against. You know, I'm thinking about this in the same week that here in LA, we've seen the LA city council call it out, go into utter disarray over some Latino council members, making some very disparaging racist comments about black children, right?
All this shit is connected, and the pressure and the onus on all of us is to call it out when we see it. It is very easy to say on Twitter, Kanye West is an anti-Semite. But when you're in the room hearing this stuff go down, what are you saying? What are you doing? That is the work, and that is the challenge. That is the work. We're going to have to leave it there for now, but you're absolutely right. Fascism may creep up on you, but it's not going to creep back. You have to push back.
And I think I'm really grateful, Sam, for that context. Well, we'll take it a break. Stay tuned. We'll be right back.
This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.
I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just Black Gen Z, but Black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders Awards.
on their Instagram page, We Are Golden. All right, we are back and we are going to talk about Joe Biden and his new puff puff pass decisions, I guess. Sir, I expect those kinds of puns from Sam. Ha ha!
I was trying to be Sam Sanders, but I failed at my dad policy jokes. Joe puff puff passed Biden. Joe puff puff passed Biden. It does have a nice ring to it. So if you aren't aware of the news, let me give you some quick facts. So according to the Washington Post, last Thursday, which was October 6th, President Joe Biden pardoned thousands of people convicted of marijuana possession under federal law. And the federal part of this is really, really important to remember.
That includes around 6,500 people, according to various reports. So a good amount of people. That's a good amount of people, but it's not everyone in jails. The parties will clear everyone convicted on federal charges of simple possession since it became a crime in the 1970s. And the parties will not apply to people who sold or distributed marijuana. That's also really important.
Officials say there are no people now serving time in federal prisons solely for marijuana possession, but the move will help remove obstacles for those who have gotten out of prison that may be applying for jobs, trying to get housing where it is on their record. So it is a massive thing, but it's just the beginning of what should be happening. What's so surprising about this is that it shows a major shift in policy in the Democratic Party that has been very –
to jump on the marijuana bandwagon. Just as recent as 2019, Joe Biden was saying that he didn't know if there was enough research, if marijuana was a gateway drug or not. So they were withholding any major changes. And then most famously, which I feel like I should throw this to Sam Sanders about this,
The vice president of the United States became famous during the presidential race for being one of the biggest prosecutors of people for drug possession as the AG of California. So the joke on Twitter this week has been that Joe Biden has successfully erased half of Kamala Harris's resume through this decision. So there we go. It's been a while to see her reaction to it as well, because just this week after Joe Biden announced the news, she was given a speech and she said no one should be in jail for smoking a joint. Right.
And even she had to crack a smile because she was like, huh, I never thought I'd be saying this. You know, she was gagged. Has she in her comments acknowledged, you know, her past? I don't think she will. She hasn't yet. Yeah. She hasn't. And that was a big thing on the trail was that image.
And how she dealt with healthcare with trans people. Like there was a lot of- Truancy. I remember her like kind of bragging about- She bragged about locking parents up for truancy. For truancy students. So she used to, she used this to like brag and get people kind of the moderates to be excited for over-policing of people.
But now they're doing a turnabout, and this is really great timing because we are four weeks out from the midterms, and the most people impacted by marijuana charges are black and brown people in America, especially young black and brown people. So this change will impact voter turnout potentially. But here's the thing. Even though this could be such a big issue for black people—
There are some questions about whether the whole country will feel the effect of this shift on marijuana. So we do know that a black person is more than three times as likely to be arrested for marijuana possession than a white person. And it's been that way for some time. But here's the thing about Joe Biden doing what he's doing with weed at the federal level. Most prosecutions and convictions for weed possession, distribution or selling happen at the state level.
And so while we've already seen some states say, we're going to meet Joe Biden where he is on marijuana, and some states even got there earlier before Biden did, we're also seeing politicians like the governors of Texas and Louisiana and Arkansas saying that they will not follow Biden's lead and they will not decriminalize marijuana at the state level. And so what we have now is just a hodgepodge of weed policy across the country from state to state. That is not good.
And I would hope that as we see this news from Biden about weed and changing the standards around marijuana at the federal level, just know the work is not done. It is just the start. There's so much to be done. And even after you legalize and fully legalize for the whole country, there's equity issues to be pursued in the legal weed market.
In a state like California, where marijuana is legal, we know who makes the most money from selling legal weed. According to a study from Marijuana Business Daily in 2017, 81% of marijuana business owners in the US were white and just over 4% were black.
So what we're seeing now as we hopefully move towards legalization of marijuana and other drugs as well, we had a system that before it was legal would disproportionately punish black people. And now when it starts to become legal, it will disproportionately keep out black people from the economic benefit.
and reward white people. There's so much more work to be done. Yeah. And so I would hope that we don't see Biden making this news as like the end of it all. It is literally the start of it all. Yeah. I mean, it can't be the end of it all because that's the thing about, you know, executive orders. I mean, a Republican president could come in, you know, in the next term and then just sweep it all away. I mean, I,
I want to acknowledge, particularly for Biden, who signed the crime bill in the 90s that caused just so much harm. And frankly, Kamala Harris, I understand she was doing her job. Listen, if you're a state prosecutor, you got to follow the state laws. But she seemed really proud of it to see these two people, even if they're not transparently acknowledging that they themselves played a huge role in the war on drugs.
They signed the dotted line and that's a good start. It feels like everything is so polarized and politicized. Everything's a part of the culture war, you know, to the point that everything is like so toxic you can't talk about it. I would love to see a future in which
drug policy in this country is moved from that. It's truly a bipartisan issue and that we can actually point to, Sam, there's so much work that needs to be done from both parties. I would love to see us really move forward and take this as the first step. There's so many steps to take.
Yeah, I don't think that Joe Biden can take a victory lap on this because the same Joe Biden who hopes to make marijuana legal is the same Joe Biden who even now in 2022 is saying, no, don't defund the police, give them more resources. He is arguing for more resources for the systems and structures and police departments across the country that disproportionately prosecute black people for marijuana, even as he says it shouldn't be a crime.
So there's a certain hypocrisy present in the Biden's approach to drugs writ large that must be addressed. I also think it is a call to the left to continue being activists. We have seen Joe Biden, a truly moderate political figure for decades, have to move further and further to the left because the left has been loud. They've been loud on student loan debt forgiveness. They've been loud on marijuana. Keep up the loudness. There is no –
claimed or power taken without a struggle. And so even as we want to kind of, you know, give Joe some flowers for this, it's not about Joe. It's about the activist left being in that man's ear for a long time. It was dragging him from where he was with the crime bill. Yes. Pushing. Yes. And it takes work and continued work. Yes. And also, do y'all remember what happened just last year in the White House with Joe Biden and marijuana? What? You know, we don't too much. He gets his teacup up. What happened, Zach? Sorry.
He fired all staff who smoked marijuana on their free time. Are you serious? That was like early on. Obama would never. Joe Biden was playing marijuana cop in the White House day one. So that's why this is like so fascinating to me is that there were people who woke up the other day to this news being like, girl, I lost my job for this. Yeah.
Random White House aides being like, well, fuck you. I mean, actually, also something, Sam, you said, like kind of talking about like he's saying like, let's fund the police. I think the Democratic Party is so frustrating because what I think I see them trying to do is
is they're trying to talk a centrist talk. They're saying things like, no, the solution is to fund the police. They're talking and obviously they're heading into midterms. So it's not a coincidence that he was pretending to be like, we need more research in 2019 because that's strategic messaging. So they're trying to appeal to the perceived centrist voters, however you wanna define that. But then kind of
I think they think they're being sneaky. They're not. But on the back end, with these executive orders or different policies, try to appeal. And I hope this strategy works, but it seems confusing to me. And especially as you point out, both when it comes to public policy and in terms of
of how this is enforced by the states and cities. But also in terms of behavior, I don't know. I mean, if you're just like a regular cop walking down the street in Columbus, Ohio, if you know at the end of the day the law hasn't changed and you see a group of black teenagers, well then what else is going to change about that interaction? You know what I mean? Yeah.
I think what is so frustrating for me as someone who used to cover politics, watching Democrats try to get ready for the midterms, that party has so many issues they could just win on.
Public opinion polling on several issues, big issues, are in Democrats' favor. The vast majority of Americans believe in abortion rights. The vast majority of Americans think that college is too expensive and that student loan debt should be forgiven. The vast majority of Americans think that marijuana should be legal. The vast majority of Americans agree that gun control is a thing that we must pursue. And yet Democrats can never say with conviction, we believe in these things. What would happen if they just said, we know a majority of the country is on this side of the
Forget about the elusive, invisible, moderate voter. Just say, no, no, no, no, no, no. Most of the country feels this way. They feel this way about weed and abortion and drugs and student loans.
but they never do that. And I don't understand why. And you know what? This is actually a great way to talk about this because as Zach pointed out, we are what, four weeks from midterms? Because here's the bullshit. Here's what drives me crazy about the Democratic Party. This time, every election cycle right now, Democrats go, well-
If we get control of the Senate, if we're able to maintain control of the House, please get out and vote. If you do this, then suddenly we will be able to. They never. And it's like we've been giving you control. It's Lucy with that damn football. They pull it every time. Every time. Also, every election, more voters vote for Democrats than Republicans. It's not like people aren't showing up and saying, OK, Democrats, it's Democrats not using their power to do the things that we say we want them to do.
Don't get me started. But I think the time for centrism is over. You got one side of the country that is becoming fascist.
The other side should be as resolute in their ideals. That's what I'm saying. And I would say these moments, these executive orders, you know, should inspire governors, state politicians to take this further. Because just from my own experience working in crime, what Joe Biden is modeling in this bill, where I will give him his flowers in this moment, is that if this became state law, if possession was no longer criminal activity...
The stories that I worked on in the past, like when I did a series around 10,000 mostly black people disappeared into police facilities and disappeared for days and some of them being tortured, they were all mostly picked up for perceived possession of marijuana. So this is – marijuana isn't a gateway drug. It's a gateway pathway into the prison industrial complex. So he is signaling to everybody, like, take this one thing away. We will see prison rates drop.
crime rates, arrest rates all plummet because smelling pot, as Don Lemon did, remember at the Ferguson protests, where he's like, I smell pot, that is always the gateway to someone getting arrested for something. And that's, it's not okay. Yeah, well, and, and this is the history lesson that we don't have time for in this episode, but if you look at everything that police are allowed to stop civilians for, you know,
It came out of laws that allowed police to stop black men and arrest them at will. Yep.
And it all backs into the beginning of what we call the police, which was the end of slave watchers, people that trafficked and watched slaves as they were being released into the free world. So anyway, that's for another day. We can give you a history of policing and criminalization in America. That's it, Joe. Keep rolling those blunts. Stay high, Joe. I mean, keep going. Yeah, I think it's clear all three of us are like, by all means, continue. Yeah, lean in. Lean in, girl. Well, you know, with that, we have to take a quick break, but we'll be right back with our vibe recommendations. So stay right there.
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All right, we are back. You're listening to Vibe Check. Before we end the show, I want each of us to share something that is helping us keep our vibe right. This week, Sir Stafford, I'm going to start with you, and I'm going to start by saying...
Your recommendation better not be that little haunted hayride you took me on Sunday. It wasn't scary. Y'all did a haunted hayride? We did a haunted hayride. And it wasn't scary. It wasn't scary. It wasn't scary. It was not scary at all. It was terrible. How scary can it be if you're already in a getaway vehicle? Yeah. And you just tell yourself the whole time, you're like, they can't actually touch me because if they do, I could sue them. So you just sit there and you're like, okay, there's just white people throwing things at me. Welcome to a Tuesday. And then there were some of the scary people who were just like...
I'm only here because I have to be. Yes. There was a black woman that was like part of a set that was laughing while she was doing her like little moment. She was like, girl, she saw black people. She was like, girl, I have credit card debt. Listen.
We all do what we got to do. Okay, what I will tell you to do is you should order at a bar sometime a drink that has gone viral this week called a Negroni Spagliato. The G is silent, Zach. The G is silent. Is it? Is Spagliato?
Oh, Spagliato. I don't know. Spagliato. Oh, God. Wow. So, okay, Sam, you're actually proving the point I'm going to make is that if you have no idea what we're talking about, that probably means you suffer from an illness called heterosexuality because every queer person in the world has seen the TikTok talking about this cocktail. Can I interject? May I? Yeah.
It's been weighing on my spirit because people are asking me about it. Every fourth TikTok on my For You page for at least the last 10 days, I'm 10 days into this, it just crested. We just hit a new point where now it's hit Twitter and now I saw the New York Times was like, here's our Negroni bread. I hear it in my sleep. Emma, I love you, baby, but I hear you saying, with Prosecco. With Prosecco.
Zach, I want you to tell folks about the original TikTok. But first, I do have to say, when I finally Googled Negroni Spagliato expecting some big thing, it was such a letdown. It is. It's just an Aperol Spritz. It's truly just an Aperol Spritz. But tell us what happened. Tell us what happened. What happened was there is a show called House of Dragons on HBO. You don't say. The prequel is probably the biggest show in the world right now. Prequel to Game of Thrones. It is quite good. I do love it. It's great. It's like Real Housewives meets Medieval Times. It's wonderful. And the...
The two stars, the characters of Princess Rhaenyra and Queen Alicent, who are played by Emma Darcy and Olivia Cooke, are talking to each other. And they ask, what cocktail do you love?
- What's your drink of choice? - A Negroni. - I was gonna say that's so sick. - Bagliato. - Ooh. - With Prosecco in it. - Oh, stunning. - Yeah. - It's really charming. - I was feeling feelings for Emma. - Yes. - I was not. - Okay. - She just said the name of- - Listen, I hate Negronis. I hate Negroni. I don't like bitter cocktails, but they said it and I was like,
There's a sexiness. And that's what's like really set it off is that like there's sexual tension between these two who are friends and one's a stepmom in the show. There's some tension and they're cutting it by talking about cocktails and every queer person. White queers get rewarded for doing the least. Oh my God. Doing the least. Don't you rain on our parade. Let us have this. Let's see.
So here's the reason I love it is because I think a lot about like the different gazes. And I think it's like an actual, it's been interesting to see what different people based on their sexual preference and desire find sexy. Yeah. And I think what's really interesting is that seeing like someone like Emma, a talented non-binary actor, just like sometimes just the vocal cadence, the way like someone leans forward, that's hot. It's not always like about a six pack and a, you know. Yeah.
There's a swagger. I still don't want a Negroni, though. And I know bartenders are tired. Oh, over it. God bless the bartenders of America having to deal with all this. I have been drinking Negronis since I've been drinking because I support all things Negro. Oh, Lord Jesus.
I'll be honest. I had never thought about it until I was at a bar once and I saw a white Negroni on the menu. And I was like, well, wait a minute now. That feels racist. Anyway, you both have to talk about what you're vibing on because I've taken up so much time through my Negroni. And that's the magic of that TikTok. It takes up all the oxygen in the room. What's your recommendation, Syed? Mine?
is I've heard good things about this show over the years. It's actually ended already, but Shameless, the Showtime show. I've heard about it. It popped up on my Netflix feed. There are 11 seasons and I love this show. I love this show so much. There's a lot going on. It's about a family in Chicago, the South side of Chicago. It's an alcoholic father. The mom left them, just walked out on all of them. It's six kids.
The older sister, Fiona, is like 21, 22 and is basically the de facto parent, period, because the dad is just a drunk and horrible. The father is played by William H. Macy, wonderful actor. Joanne Cusack is a part of the cast as well. It is so good. It's very like
chaotic, messy, all hell breaks loose every episode. But the gist is that we'll figure it out. We'll come together as a family. We take care. And as a neighborhood, actually, I really like it. Even neighbors down the street, like everyone's. So it's very like if you respond to chosen family, if you respond to that understanding that we do live in community, you're going to love the show. Also, a lot of male nudity, a lot of male nudity. I was like the Game of Thrones writers should be ashamed because I see male butts.
and one episode with Shameless. Also, didn't Shameless introduce us to the working man, Timothy Chalamet? Yes. A.K.A. that guy from The Bear. Uh-huh. He plays the brother. He plays the brother. He's very good. But anyway, that's my recommendation. It's really great. And they're 11 seasons. So I love when you fall in love with the show and you're like, oh good, we have a long runway.
we can get into it. And I'll just say, I will go to war for Fiona. People who've watched the show, y'all know. Fiona's my girl. Fiona is my girl. Sam, what about you? My recommendation this week is a really hilarious show from the team that brought you Modern Family. It's new on Hulu. It's called Reboot.
This show is so smart and it functions on several levels. So Reboot tells the story of a TV writer played by Rachel Bloom. So she's from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, but in this show, she plays a show writer who wants a big network to bring back a 90s sitcom, but make it dark.
And she wants to do it with the original cast. But she's up against the creator of the show who has his own vision for the reboot. Turns out the creator of the show is her father. So she and her estranged father, played by Paul Reiser, have to work together on this show. He's great. In which one of the leads is Keegan-Michael Key.
It's just got a great cast. The setup and premise is just like so rewarding and fulfilling and has like all these possibilities for detours of plot. And it's super smart and funny. You know, those first two seasons of Modern Family, it was just really great, fun, quick, comedic sitcom writing. You get that in this show, in Reboot, but it's a little bit darker. I love this show so much. I've watched the five episodes out already. There are new episodes weekly, but it's on Hulu. It's called Reboot.
Trust me when I say you have to watch it. It is so good. I meant to watch it last night. It popped up, and I tried to watch some other Hulu show about straight people having a terrible relationship, and I regretted it. So thank you, Sam. I'm going to listen to you this week. My boyfriend yesterday was just mentioning he really likes Reboot. It's really good. Okay, listeners, tell us what you're into, what you recommend for us and everybody else. You can send us a note whenever you want via email at vibecheck.com.
At Stitcher.com. Vibecheck. At Stitcher.com. On that note, I want to remind you, send us questions for our Ask Us Anything episode as well. Vibecheck. At Stitcher.
at Stitcher.com. For example, I have plenty of opinions on cocktails beyond Negroni. And if this episode was your introduction to the queer Negroni phenomenon, let us know because how could you have missed it? It's everywhere. It's literally every fourth TikTok. I know it, but I'm like, skip. Wait, could my drag name be Negroni Spagliata? No.
And then Zach comes behind you named with Prosecco. With Prosecco. Yes. I love, I love, I love.
All right, well, that's our show. Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platform. Huge thank you to our producer, Shanta Holder, engineer, Brendan Burns, and Marcus Hom for our theme music and sound design. Special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda Management and Production. And last but not least, thank you to Jared O'Connell and Imelda Skinder for all of their help.
We want to hear from you. Don't forget our Ask Us Anything episode is coming up soon. You can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com. And of course, keep in touch with us on Twitter at The Ferocity, at Zach Stafford, and at Sam Sanders. Use the hashtag vibecheckpodcast.
pod. And also, you know, if the spirit moves you, you can follow us on TikTok at vibecheckpod. Stay tuned for another episode next week. Stay safe out there. Bye. Bye. Go have a Negroni and be nice to a Negro. Stitcher.
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