It's the Gayest Candy
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This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

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Ladies. I've been wanting to try that for a while. I've been wanting to drink a little funky. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Zach Stafford. I'm Saeed Jones. And you, ladies, are listening to Vibe Check. The reason I'm in such a good mood this morning, I think, is because I had perhaps the best breakfast. Oh. Leftover Thai food.

The morning after is always a treat. Well, what type of Thai food? Was it like a pad thai? Chicken pad thai to you. Chicken pad thai to you. Okay. Those noodles get even juicier. Yeah, baby. I'm reviving. That's for lunch now. That sounds good. That sounds good. I love that. It's funny. You're in a good mood because of food you order from a restaurant because I'm in a meh mood because of a restaurant called Balthazar's. And yesterday, I was on a...

I was feeling great because they banned... I knew we were going to get there. I knew we were going to get to Balthazar. I just had to because I found out something before we started recording is that Balthazar had banned James Corden, which everyone has heard terrible stories about this man on planes, on trains, on automobiles. Yeah, I'm in a good mood because of it because I hate James Corden. The owner had said that he was the worst customer in Balthazar's 25-year history.

Exactly. But Saeed, you're in a good mood over it. But here, let me turn your mood. He has been unbanned as of last night. Oh, yeah, I did see that. No, he unbanned him pretty quickly. I have hated James Corden. You can search my tweets. I've been hating James Corden loudly and publicly for like five or six years now. Ever since he beat Beyonce...

And won the Emmy. Over Homecoming. Over Homecoming. I'll never forgive him. I'll never forgive him. And then I found out he's actually not a very nice person. I have forgotten why James Corden is such a mainstay in musicals. Because I rewatched Into the Woods the other day and was hit in the face with the fact that he's... How did that?

I don't know. Because it's not like he's like Hugh Jackman, like an incredible stage performer. Like, I don't think he was known for his musical talents before. And then all of a sudden it feels like anytime there's a mid, and we'll talk about mid entertainment, anytime there's a mid movie musical, he's in it for some reason. Kind of playing gay in a weird way. And then we'll talk about it.

gay person that's another reason to not like him also fuck you James Corden let us not give this show over to James Corden we have not yet even started the show when you mention James Corden and I lost all sense of fun I love I am like such a chaos demon I'm just like I have a thing go yeah we're so off this could be pod safe America where are we girl what are we talking about

This week on Vibe Check, we're going to talk about Elon Musk inserting himself where he does not belong, namely Ukraine. And we're going to discuss how right now it seems like everything in entertainment is kind of mid. Not great, not awful, but mid. That's probably why James Corden's on my nerves today because I think he is the root cause. That's where we're going with this.

I mean, he is pretty mid. He's so mid. He's so mid. But before all of that, I want to ask my sisters how they're doing. What's your vibe? I don't know. I've felt very anxious this week for some reason, and it's not because of nuclear war. And I have to tell everyone, thank you so much for checking in on me. Thank you for sending me your tidbits on how to survive. Oh, my God. I do feel better. I just literally, like now, Syed, I think about what you said that it's like,

It's just over. Like the FOMO is dead. I was like, great. But yeah, I think I'm just like, I'm feeling meh because it does feel like we as a culture have moved past the pandemic and I'm just getting hit in the face with so much like things and expectations and places to be and people to be with. And so I'm just feeling really tired today. So that's where I'm at.

Okay. What about you, Saeed? Yeah, same. I'm still in the middle of a book tour. I hit my wall this weekend. I hit that wall where I felt like my immune system, my energy level started to flag. I wasn't able to make it to an event in San Francisco. I just spent the weekend in bed. And then I woke up this morning.

It was 36 degrees when I woke up to walk the dog. I had to go in the closet, find the park. It was just like, this is so much so soon. It feels like we skipped ahead a month. I mean, obviously winter is coming, but I'm not used to it being this chilly. So I just, yeah, I feel much of what Zach said, just a little like energies flagging, a little cranky. It'll be okay. Well, I feel guilty because I'm doing great.

I feel very bad now. It's because of this damn Thai food. All three of us can't be in a bad mood. That just wouldn't be good for the vibe. Listen, I slept really well last night. I had some leftover pads for you for breakfast. There's a nice crispness in the air. I was about to say, your skin looks great. You look great. Thank you. Listen, it has been me, the power of prayer, and proactive working on this face the last several weeks. And this, listeners, is what it is to be friends with a goddamn Leo. Woohoo!

I'm happy for you. You deserve it, baby. I'm so glad you're feeling great this week and you'll be our guiding light of hope. That's what I do. Because we're going to need it for today. That's what I do. Okay, okay. Well, before we get into the hot tea today, we want to thank all of you who have sent us fan mail, tweeted us, and DM'd us. We love hearing from you. And this is your last week, as a reminder, to send us questions for our Ask Us Anything episode.

Let's do it.

So Elon Musk has been making news these last few days over his involvement in the war with Ukraine. And he's also been possibly talking about how to broker peace in the war, which is like, dude, not your job. But the big story is how Elon Musk and his company SpaceX has gotten involved in giving Ukrainian troops access to the Internet.

So Elon's company, SpaceX, makes these portable internet boxes called Starlink. And after the war began, Elon and SpaceX sent over a bunch of them to Ukraine so that troops could communicate on the ground, even if Russia knocked out phone lines or internet lines.

And this seemed to be going really well. Everyone said, that's really nice of you, Elon. Good move. But a few months into the war, Elon Musk now is saying that SpaceX can't afford the upkeep of the Starlinks they sent to Ukraine. There's a monthly cost to keep all of them running.

So Elon now has said the US government needs to come in and pay all these costs. Elon told the government that it would cost close to $400 million to keep the Starlinks up and running for the next year. But some experts say he is inflating the actual costs of the maintenance and service and continuation of the Starlinks. Elon got a bunch of bad press after basically saying, I'm no longer gonna help Ukraine in this war.

He then on Saturday said, the hell with it. Even though Starlink is still losing money and other companies are getting billions of taxpayer dollars, we'll just keep funding the Ukrainian government for free. So it kind of seems like a happy ending, but it's entirely uncertain because we don't know when Elon will say again, I can't afford this thing. He has introduced a level of uncertainty in a war that does not need any more of it.

And I guess my biggest question with this whole story is like, Elon, why are you in this? Why are you involved? And hasn't he also just been chit-chatting with Putin too? This is the thing. He's just in, what are you doing, man? Yes. It just seems like obviously it's like inappropriate. It also just seems-

Like, private citizens are not supposed to be... It's dangerous. And also, like, how does he have the time? He runs SpaceX and Tesla, which are some of the, like, biggest companies in terms of, like, valuation in the world. But yet he has time to do foreign diplomatic work where he is embedding internet in Ukraine and also coordinating with Putin on Twitter to warn us about a nuclear war. It just feels like the vibe is way off. The vibe is off.

And what makes it even scarier is not that Elon Musk is a rich man who just does whatever he wants and seems to be pretty erratic. He's also an unreliable narrator.

It is often hard to tell when he is telling the truth. You know, he has tried to backtrack whether or not he was talking to Putin. He is allegedly inflating the actual cost of these Starlink devices. It's bad enough that he's involved. What makes it even scarier and worse is that you can't trust him. And what you want is someone you can trust if they're going to be involved in a war. Well,

and that's the thing. I mean, it all just feels like a paradox, right? Because it's like, who do you trust in a war, like weapons manufacturers? Like, it's not that I think companies like Lockheed Martin are, you know, like, like,

St. Lee organizations, they're not. They depend on violence and abuse to make millions, billions of dollars. Like war is good for them, but it just seems obviously like unproductive, frankly. Not that there's a version of a productive war, right? But it just seems unproductive to have someone as chaotic, narcissistic, inconsistent, as you pointed out, Sam,

wading into this. This can't be good for anyone in terms of hoping for this war to end. I also really have major questions about someone as rich as Elon Musk, reportedly the richest man in the world, asking for any money to help Ukraine. If you offered to help Ukraine and you're the richest person in the world, couldn't you just do it pro bono?

Yeah, but that's the issue with the privatization of foreign policy that we're seeing here, is that when you make it a private issue with a private company, a privately held company, or even a publicly traded company, but a business that is aligned with capitalism, then you're focused on the bottom line and your profits and losses. So while you may have a ton of profits, like Apple has so much cash in the bank, but

But if they start seeing something losing money, they pivot quickly. Or Facebook, they pivot quickly because they don't think it's scalable. So that's my question at the end of the day is that he's a for-profit kind of raconteur around the world. So his investments and his coordination with Putin are not from a like a

It's not altruistic.

And that's just scary. And it makes me think about Adam McKay's movie, Don't Look Up, where, you know, the big thing that happens there is that we outsource or make a third party private company. To an Elon Musk. To an Elon Musk. As meteorites are coming in. And so that's why I think it's dangerous to have Elon Musk so present in the chess game that is, you know, foreign diplomacy. Because then we could end up in this situation. Nuclear war is very similar to meteorites hitting the earth. And I don't think Elon Musk should be the one trying to shoot them down or privatize them in the process. Yeah.

Yeah, which also it's like, look, I'm not the president. I am not a secretary of state. That is not my lane in this lifetime. I'm not going to act like to be an expert on this. But, like, it seems pretty clear that the U.S. government shouldn't have allowed Elon Musk and Starlink to get involved in the first place because something like this should happen. Like, is this allowed? Like, who –

Well, this is the thing. I remember when I was in graduate school getting my master's degree in public policy, they had a term, a really nice benevolent term for when the government allows private industry to either partner with the government or take over. It was called public-private partnership. And the idea was that you could find these synergies between the government and the private sector and they could work together.

And it was literally taught to us in school as the way forward for governments. Flash forward some 15 years. Here we are. It's kind of run amok. It's not a partnership. It is takeover. It is corporate takeover of things the government used to be responsible for. And the thing about it is that with all these really, really rich men, and it's usually always men, they never just want to be the world's richest men.

Once they get that rich, they want to exert their power and run things. We see Peter Thiel investing millions of dollars into American elections right now. We see Jeff Bezos and other super billionaires trying to colonize space. They never just want to be rich. They always want more.

And governments and I think governmental bodies across the world haven't figured out how yet to react to that. If anything, they want to buddy up to these guys, but I don't think that's going to save us. I really don't. And speaking of Peter Thiel, I mean, here in Ohio, he spent millions of dollars backing

you know, really, I would argue, really dangerous Republican candidates, one of whom is running for a Senate seat here in Ohio, J.D. Vance, who's just...

The worst. He's the absolute worst. I mean, they're all bad, but he just has one of those faces where I just look away, girl. I can't even concentrate. But anyway, I think it's really interesting that you mentioned someone like Peter Thiel in this kind of galaxy of billionaires because he's trying to get a third passport. In this case, it would be Malta. You can do that?

You can't. So I knew you could. I knew that you can, if you're wealthy enough, and it depends on different countries, you can literally buy passports in different countries. And Zach, do you know where his other passport is? Germany. So we don't know for sure, but it's assumed to be Germany. He was born there, I believe. So he would get dual citizenship, which gives him access to the EU.

Right. And now he's trying to get one from Malta. And it seems shady and it's like Daily Beast has been reporting on it and it's like it doesn't even seem like he's following the rich people rules that he's supposed to. But I just think it's interesting, you know, in addition to how the Jeff Bezos, the Elon Musk, the Peter Thiel's are just –

fucking shit up. I mean, they're really causing chaos here and abroad in the case of Elon Musk, right? But also, they have escape hatches. You know what I mean? Like, whatever, you know, and obviously they are always going to be because of their wealth and privilege insulated from the violence that they are perpetuating. But even beyond that, they're literally like, Peter Till can just leave the country, you know? And I just think it's like, wait a minute, like, you're literally funding an organization like with a kind of America first policy

Isn't that the rhetoric they use? And I'm like, you're not putting America first. Like you got a fire escape hatch. It makes me so angry. Yeah. Well, and there's a certain kind of philosophy that not just empowers these rich men as they think they can take over the world because they're rich, but it also allows a lot of the country, a lot of the world to think it's okay. I think of the very idea of social entrepreneurship, this idea that business could be used to save the world.

And perhaps the biggest, I guess, example of it would be like the phenomenon of Tom's shoes, where it's like if you buy a pair of Tom's, we'll give a pair of Tom's to people in Africa who need it. You're saving the world by buying shoes. Tom's shoes have not saved Africa. It was really just marketing. Exactly. Yet Tom's, the company, is getting richer and richer and richer. And there has been this story and this narrative sold to us in late-stage capitalism that the right capitalist arrangement –

will save us and will fix these problems. But the work of fixing some of these problems is not profitable and capitalism can't do it. And I think you're right. The former CEO or current CEO of Patagonia, you know, is making an effort or just- And some people, yeah, the chairman, and some people are saying like he's just doing it as a tax write-off, but at least a gesture toward climate change and thinking about climate policy. It's interesting to see these billionaires like just avoiding climate change seemingly entirely because it's not profitable.

Exactly. They're not even trying to pretend to care about it. And I would say I'm very hesitant to ever believe that a for-profit venture will save the world because capitalism at the end of the day has no interest in saving the world. It destroys the world. It destroys the world. And the best example of this is this pursuit of media to be aligned with saving the world right now. So the Washington Post's new tagline is democracy dies in the dark. The New York Times saw a huge influx of subscribers in New Yorker under Trump.

And, you know, that's all dipping. And now we're seeing layoffs impending on the horizon due to a recession, all these things. And when you wrap up our political future or even our futures for anything that's equitable in a bottom line, in profit margins, it's going to fail because what we should be thinking more radically is, you know, internet should be free globally to everyone all the time. That media and access to news and journalism should be free all the time. Housing should be free. These are the radical things that we should be looking at that

untethered capitalism to it and allow us just to exist, but we're not going there. And that's why this idea of Elon Musk stepping in, I'm like, nope, I don't believe in capitalism like this. I think if the purpose here was to make some money and kill people, then yes, Elon Musk should be in this. But that's not what we want out of the Ukraine situation. We want there to be life. Sorry, that's not funny. But it's true. You're right. There are certain things that

that have to be unsexy and unprofitable to get done equitably, namely healthcare. You know, when healthcare is for profit, people suffer. When healthcare is, you know, made accessible for all in an unsexy government kind of way, it's not fun and flirty and cool and profitable, but it works, right? And so what parts of our society...

need to be inherently by design not made for profit. We have lost sight of that in every way. That's the thing with these billionaires. They don't actually want to create substantive change that would impact anyone other than themselves. They want attention.

And power, right? And that's clearly what's kind of guiding your decisions. Yeah, well, and the underlying principle of capitalism is that in order for profit to be made, there must be scarcity. And so if you allow capitalism to rule certain sectors, it will create scarcity. But some aspects of society should not be scarce, right?

like housing or food or education or healthcare. Don't get me started. And certainly in the middle of a war. I mean, certainly in the middle of a war. I mean, that's like a whole new level of. Yes. Anywho, Elon gonna Elon. We're going to take a break. When we come back, we will not be talking about Elon Musk. No, we're probably going to talk about Elon Musk. Exactly.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden. Okay, we are back. I'm happy to report, friends, I'm in a better mood. I don't know if it was talking about nuclear annihilation.

Or billionaire capitalism. But something's got me feeling a little bit more perky. Trashing Elon Musk always makes us feel better, right? It's therapeutic. It's therapeutic. Well, now that I'm in a better mood, I'm ready to talk about our next topic. So as we were coming up with the concept for this week's episode, we were trying to think about pop culture. And we were like, it's kind of hard to get excited about anything. Everything just feels a little eh.

A little shrug. And so mid, so we wanted to kind of talk about, you know, we're talking music, TV, movies, just the kind of cultural vibe when you think of entertainment, things feel mid. First of all, let's define mid. My first question is, is mid a synonym for mediocre or is it a little different? Mid is a feeling. Mid is not having your expectations met.

Mid is over promise and under delivery. Exhibit A, this little show on Netflix featuring Anthony. You have been ranting about this. No.

You are the only person I have seen mention the existence of this show. You were so mad about it. Netflix had been plugging this show called Easy Bake Battle. The host being one Antony from Queer Eye fame. The thinking was in a show named Easy Bake Battle, they're going to be cooking on Easy Bake

ovens. That's what I assumed. So I'm so excited to watch this show featuring Easy Bake Ovens and I turn the show on and everyone's cooking, but there are no Easy Bake Ovens. That is mid. You over-promise and you under-deliver. Is it like off-brand Easy Bake?

So at first they just use regular ass ovens. Oh. And then for the easy bake challenge, they say that they brought in actual full-sized easy bake ovens, but they're just gussied up regular ovens. There is no easy bake oven to be found. Why would you do that? That's me.

That's mid. And this got us talking about how like all of the stuff that we're consuming right now seems to be a little bit fucking mid. Yeah. As much as I hate to agree with you, Sam, I think that's why you're so... That's an odd choice. Yes. And what I love about that choice and helping us kind of situate this conversation is...

The restaurateur chef David Chang wrote this essay, I think in Wired years ago, maybe 10 years ago, called The Theory of Deliciousness. And the basis of that argument is that anything you taste that's good should transport you back to a nostalgic feeling. It's not the exact thing you had, but it should take you back to a feeling. So a pot pie, when you eat a delicious piece of chicken or pot pie at a restaurant and it reminds you of your grandmother's pot pie,

It doesn't mean that those recipes are the same. It means that it gives you the feeling of going backwards in time. And I have applied that to so much culture around me of when I look at something, that pipe shoot of nostalgia. Like when Drake samples Lauryn Hill, it takes you on this emotional rollercoaster where it takes you backwards and forwards and here.

And I think that's a great thing. But what we're seeing right now is an overabundance of the nostalgia play, which I think is the mid play. It's where you give me an IP that takes me backwards, like Easy Bake Oven. And then when I consume it, I'm like, meh, this doesn't taste good. This doesn't feel good. I think that's such a...

Because I think what's key in what David Chang was talking about is the transportation, the transformation. Like, there's actually, like, a sense of movement. And I think what we're seeing now in media with a lot of, like, corporate nostalgia, it's kind of like someone just, like, holding up a sign that's, like, 2002, like, just the year, and you're like, that's it? Like, you know, like, there's not...

You know what I mean? Like there's no, you're just like, yeah, 2002 was a day in time. Thank you. But there's nothing beyond that. You know what I mean? So there's no, you're not transported. And you're right. I mean, like, you know, one of my favorite dishes that my mom made and, you know, obviously my mom passed away like a decade ago. It's like a very specific kind of peach cobbler. And when I've had a peach cobbler that's similar, it is. It's like time and space shuffling.

Like, it's an emotional kind of existential experience that's really beautiful. But if someone just, like, holds up, like, this is it, it's not the same thing. Well, that's the thing. So much of what I think an artist like David Chang is doing through food and through nostalgia is giving you a taste of that nostalgia to take you back, but then flipping the script ever so slightly in a way that feels new. Definitely.

And my issue with a lot of the stuff that we're consuming, especially watching, is that it's a recycling of IP and ideas and names that we know, but you're never giving me anything that feels fresh and new and more. You don't advance the narrative. Like I'm thinking of all the Jeffrey Dahmer content we're seeing right now, the Ryan Murphy Dahmer show, the Dahmer documentary. I've been watching and hearing stories about Jeffrey Dahmer since I was a kid.

And just seeing the name Dahmer on my TV screen taps into nostalgia, and I'll probably click. But what would make that art great was that if it went somewhere new, even as it exists in this place of nostalgia, the art's not doing that these days. I feel like so much of the recycled IP that we're being fed is unadventurous, not at all creative, and playing it safe. And I think that a lot of the stuff that we're consuming is...

is influenced and created out of corporate fear. I think we have a lot of these boardrooms and entertainment where they just have to guarantee a bottom line. And when they have to do that, they will go for the safest bet

which is just a recycling of nostalgia in a non-creative way. Yes, and the best example, and I think we should go into examples now just so people can see this animate because what I want people to know, really important right now, is we're not saying that TV is shit right now, that it's not good. But it is. There's some great stuff. There's some bad stuff. We're saying that there is some stuff that we all love, but

the mean of all of this or the average here is that it's mid. The average is mid. And you know, a great example is the Hocus Pocus franchise. Hocus Pocus was not a great- Yo, bird ass, watch the new Hocus Pocus. I watched it. I was disappointed. So Hocus Pocus came out in 93. Wasn't a huge box office thing.

But the reason why people like us love it is because it went to Disney Channel. And they showed it in reruns all the time. So we have a ritual with the product. We come to it. It signals Halloween. It signals that we're getting costumes, childhood, all this stuff. That's the thing. That's what's special about Hocus Pocus.

And also signals Sarah Jessica Parker kind of is ageless somehow. And now this new version is this thing that's trying to rush to meet the moment while also keeping you in the nostalgia and it all falls apart. The plots, there's three plots running in there. It doesn't make any sense. It like loses the gleam of like the nostalgia because it's too modern. It's talking about CVS and beauty products. It just misses it. And for me, Hocus Pocus 2 is that mid. It's like I wanted to watch it because I love Hocus Pocus. But when I engaged with it, I was like, hmm.

this is kind of like stale bread. Like it's bread. Something that occurred to me while watching Hocus Pocus 2, and I think this is true for a lot of, you know, the reboots and the unasked for sequels and three quills and quadruple quills, is that the originals had moments. Like the original Hocus Pocus, part of the reason it's so great is that the characters and the actors are allowed to kind of linger and just kind of sit in the moment. And like, if, you know, if you've seen the original Hocus Pocus, the bus scene, like,

is wild. With her sitting on his lap. Yeah, it is. I mean, the jokes are actually very adult. I'm like, how was this allowed on Disney? But it's only possible because it's deeply rooted in the moment and they sit there and they linger. And I just think, like you were saying, this kind of corporate nostalgia is just kind of like holding up the sign. See Hocus Pocus 2. It's here. They have the same costumes. They have the wigs, right? And it's just like, it's not...

The same, like, you know, Bette Midler in the original production performing I Put a Spell on You, it's a really good performance. It's not just like, oh, she's doing the thing. It's a genuinely good performance, even if you take nostalgia away. And I just think these executives don't seem to understand that nostalgia has to be, like, it's the first step in a cultural experience.

And the other thing with Hocus Pocus 2, it wasn't cheaply made. They spent a lot of money on it. I want to know their talent fees because there was, you know, their agents took Disney to the bank saying, you can't do this movie without these girls. Listen, my girl, Kathy Najimy, deserves. My example would be the Rings of Power because I think this is another example. It's the new Lord of the Rings show and it's,

For one season, Amazon spent almost a billion dollars, which is kind of like— Wait, hold on. Stop right there. That's insane. Isn't that wild? That's insane. It's so much money. And so that's like a fascinating example of like clearly Jeff Bezos and Amazon Prime, like they gambled. They were like, we're going to throw all our chips in. And it sets up like an impossible stake because anything less than—

Absolutely. How can you justify a billion dollars except like everyone on the planet watching the show? And so, of course, it didn't do that. And I thought it was interesting. So 25 million viewers tuned in for the first two episodes. Okay. That's pretty good. Yeah. That's pretty good. But the thing is, Amazon Prime has 200 million subscribers. Oh. And

And they're not even like sharing all their data. So 25 million is only 12.5% of the available viewership. And then beyond that, when Amazon says 25 million, what does that mean? Because you know all these companies- Did they watch a minute or two minutes? Exactly. Did they finish the episode? Did they enjoy the episode? And I made it, I think, four or five episodes in. And I just-

couldn't connect with it. And it's like the source material is actually very thin. And to me, I realized, I was like, you know, honestly, the moment trolls stopped arguing about black elves and dwarves, people kind of stopped talking about rings of power. Like, have you seen people talking about rings of power? No. No.

They haven't. And I say this so much. I watch all of it. Y'all know me. Them dragons and them hobbits. None of my business. Okay, I'm here for the dragons. None of my business. I would say I've watched all of Rings of Power. Did you like it? I enjoyed it. It's something I loved on the weekends. Me and my boyfriend would watch it. It was a ritual. It was a thing we did. It's very beautiful. It's really beautiful. I don't think it's the most incredible thing. I think it kind of like...

It is funny that they program it Fridays and then, you know, House of the Dragons on Sundays because these are very much, I keep confusing the two of them. But that's a problem. I'm able to confuse the two of them because there's nothing that really distinguishes any of this. They all feel like- Okay, how dare you? How dare you insult House of the Dragon like this? I mean, House of the Dragon is better, but both series are based on very famous books that take us back to like me being in high school reading these things.

So they both tap into this nostalgia for me, so that's why I kind of confuse them sometimes. But Ring of Power, I don't think it's bad. I think it's digestible, it's really broad, and it kind of accomplishes, I think IndieWire calls Amazon Prime the CBS of streamers.

And it's kind of like, and CBS is like- But CBS gets numbers. CBS gets numbers. That's true. And CBS is like a very like trusted network. It's kind of like the New York Times of television. People love Gayle King on it. It's pretty consistent, but it's never like splashy and exciting. It's like Walmart. My issue with the rings of power is I was like, what do you have to say? Part of the predicament for me with Tolkien is to me, the concept's always very simple, which is that-

Evil is sneaking up on, it's kind of like we were talking about last weekend. Like it's basically about fascism creep, right? Like it's literally like evil is there and there's always like a, like there'll be a heroic character who is aware of the stakes. Evil is back. It's back again. We need to be on alert. And they're trying to convince everybody else to take it seriously. And everyone else is reluctant or obstinate. You know, the first time you see it, you're like, okay, that's an interesting idea. And it's like, well, okay, girl, it's 20 years into movies about,

House of the Dragon, I would argue, I think has something to say because it's interesting looking at, and I'm trying not to spoil anything, but I think it's an interesting examination of women trying to eke out, carve out, convince themselves that they have power in a patriarchy that's built against them.

And particularly Alison Hightower, the actor Olivia Cooke, who's doing an incredible job playing this pretty antagonistic character, says that she's frankly based on like a woman for Trump. And so it's kind of interesting seeing these women kind of maneuver in this system that is diametrically opposed to them and at different points kind of realize, oh, wait, we can't win. It doesn't matter. My power is an illusion.

I love this so much because what you're getting to is like what I think is needed more in culture is that I want to see people go through these obstacles and see them overcome things. I don't want you to tell me about them. Okay, that's true. So things like bros fails because it tells you what it is. You know that show Partner Track, which was really big on Netflix for two weeks about a law firm and underrepresented people trying to make partner.

told you too much about what they were trying to overcome. I like House of the Dragons because it does just show you about this gender issue. There's like underlying queer stories. There's so much happening. It's kind of the same with Hocus Pocus. It's like entertainment is great when you forget yourself. You lose yourself. And obviously we've talked a lot about television shows and stuff like that. But I think, you know, the reason Beyonce's Renaissance is so excellent is that it creates so many opportunities for you to just lose. Like we could talk about the transition from coveted

to energy for 20 minutes. There's so much there. It's not just the property. It's not just the brain. It's the moments. - I mean, so much of this mid culture and mid entertainment that we're seeing, it's more focused on proving to you that it made a point about something than actually just being good.

And I want to cite a little bit from an essay that Wesley Morris wrote for the New York Times, kind of about the same phenomenon. And his argument is that part of why TV and movies feel so eh right now is because the trashiness has been taken out of it. We have left trashy TV behind in large part. And basically he argues that after the election in 2000 and the attacks of 9-11, he basically said that like,

our society left irony behind for a while and got way too earnest. And then Hollywood in response,

started making fewer things that were concerned with individuals and their autonomy, and they were more concerned with bigger ideas and collective action like Homeland Security or patrolling the border or killer viruses or the Fast and Furious franchise, which is all about these people saving the world, right? Right. Instead of just cars. Exactly. And so you end up with this culture that has let go of the individual, let go of the trashy individual, and

And has been moving towards these things that make a point about the collective. But when we really go to entertainment to be entertained, we want to see individuals being autonomous and going through shit in some trashy ways. Like Wesley Morris argues that like the currency of American culture is trashiness. We like trashy stuff. Americans like trashy stuff.

and it's like well bring it back bring it back when I read that piece by Wesley and what I'm always dealing with is like I like trashy things because I like real things I like things that are messy and complicated and edited and unfiltered so I get so annoyed by like the Love Simons of the world which I think is a fun thing to watch Jennifer Garner ate in that movie but like

How do you have this incredibly diverse group of friends in this random town in America? That's no town any of us live in. There's not this like racial unity, gender unity. But the show is making a point, you know? It's like making a point. And it's like, I think all of us on both sides of the aisle right now just want some realness, not reality. Because reality TV is so produced. We want realness and realness is trash. People are trash. And I want to see that. Yeah.

I also think the issue I have with corporate nostalgia is that I think the last few years in particular, I mean, that's what Make America Great Again is. I think we've realized the peril of nostalgia. So it's kind of weird to see that entertainment is still trying to feed us nostalgia when I think we've all kind of complicated our relationship to it.

I am curious if our audience feels the same way. Do you think entertainment is kind of mid right now? I want you to write us and tell us why. Yeah, like are we just in a bad mood? Or are we right? We know that. But listeners, write in. Tell us your examples of mid. Or if you think we're entirely wrong. I want to know. Hit us up. Okay, well, we'll take a quick break. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back if you leave your mid. ♪

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All right, we are back. And before we end the show, we'd like to share something that's helping us keep our vibe right this week. I'm personally very excited about mine, but I will save that for a little later. Oh, okay. Wow. Sam, you're in a happy mood. What's making this mood happen beyond your facial routine? Oh.

I mean, what I really want to say is leftover pads to you, but I've already said that. Yes. I want you to say something wildly inappropriate. You're like, the nipple clamps I'm wearing. Yes. You know? Change it up. Change it up. I'm going to say what's been giving me life, and I've alluded to it before on this show, but I'm really liking this Peloton that I'm renting. Oh, okay. You can find whatever class you want. I didn't know how many classes they have, so there's like thousands. Man, I took this class last week.

From this instructor named Allie Love. It was a Beyonce ride because you can like search for like Beyonce rides. And I'm doing the half hour ride and Allie Love, the instructor, she's doing all the choreography for every song. She's talking about J-setting on a bike. She's J-setting on the bike. And I'm like, why is this bike rider so good at dancing? And then it gets to single ladies and she just casually announces to everyone watching her lead the spin class that,

that she was one of the backup dancers at the VMAs when Beyonce did Single Ladies. Oh, wow. That's major. That's actually major. It was major. And it was like... That'll make you feel good. Flex. Like, flex. And so I've just been pleasantly surprised by the quality of these fucking Peloton spin classes. They've got the real...

true professionals doing this stuff. That's my vibe. I will say to the cheap among us of which I am, I waited so long to get one because it was like thousands of dollars for these things. You can rent them now. I'm renting mine. You are such a great person.

I'm just too lazy. It's not an issue of price. Let me explain. That is not what's prohibiting me from getting a Peloton. And my issue is aesthetic. I don't think they look great in space. Girl. Zach said they look great.

Listen, I still go to spin classes. I love a spin class. I go to one at least once a week, but I do not do it in my house because I don't think it's an attractive thing. I've got mine in the back house. Mine's in the back house. Well, I don't have a back house, Sam. You have that big old house in LA. This conversation got bougie really quickly. Yeah, yeah. Anywho. Saeed, what's keeping your vibe right? Well, okay, so a few,

Two weeks ago, we were talking about, I think it was after the Emmys, talked about Shirley Ralph and kind of mentioned Sister Act 2. She plays Lauryn Hill's mom. And it's just kind of been on my mind. And then at some point in the last week, I was in a hotel and Sister Act came on. It was right at the end, so I missed it. But when I got back home, I was like, oh, it's on Disney+. And so I watched both Sister Act movies in a row. And it's fun because we've been talking about mid and nostalgia and everything. Go back.

I can watch some of these 90s comedies that clearly would not be made today. No. Because if they were just like non-existent IPP, it would be like a comedian plays a nun from a casino. Like what? And they're both actually very different. I prefer the first one to be honest. Same. I think the last act when all the nuns are running around the casino is brilliant. It is. It is. The movies are just so...

So good. I mean, and again, like everything we've talked about where you kind of forget what's going on and you're just in the moment. You enjoy it. What these movies aren't trying to make a point. Like Whoopi Goldberg is not making a greater point about the Catholic Church or what it means to be a woman or what it means to be whatever. She's having fun in this movie. Yeah.

And the performances are very, very good. Like every song, I found myself stopping and rewinding because I was like, I need to see them do this over again. Like it's just so good. It's not like a wink and a nod. It's just an actual good performance. And two things, Kath and Jimmy is in Sister Act. Know her. She is in it. So good. And she can sing. She can sing. She can sing. And speaking of singing, Lauryn Hill in Sister Act 2 singing, is Eye on the Sparrow at the piano. I just could listen to that all night.

All day long. It's so beautiful. So good. But watch these movies. If you are in a bad mood, watch these movies. I promise you, you'll feel a little bit lighter by the end. That's my recommendation. What is your recommendation, Sir Zach? My recommendation, it's the movie Tar with Cate Blanchett. Is it actually three hours long? It's two hours and 47 minutes, I think. So you have three hours. It is...

I sat in that theater the other day and I could watch Cate Blanchett play this character and just paint the walls. She just eats every scene as this rich conductor in Berlin. The trailer was very sexy. Is it a sexy movie? It's so sexy. But the sexiness is complicated because it's a movie that's kind of a Me Too movement. It's a Me Too movie. It's about...

like power and sex and all these things. So it is a movie exploring a question. It's not as on the nose, which I think is why I like it. It kind of does it in a more subtle way. But it's something, if you want to see why Cate Blanchett is one of the greatest living actors today, watch this movie. She just, and she also plays predatory lesbians so well. Between this and Carol. Oh,

I mean, she plays Predators pretty, I mean, you know, even the Thor movie that she was in was really good. And notes from a scandal. She plays some fucked up things. She plays some pretty dark characters, but okay. So anyway, that's mine. Go to the theater, see it if you'd like, or also wait till streaming. Question for both of you, Cate Blanchett or Meryl?

Or Meryl Streep? Cate Blanchett. Wow. No hesitation. Cate Blanchett. I mean, Meryl Streep is excellent. I mean, one, they choose pretty different roles. But I enjoy Meryl Streep depending on the role, depending on the character she decides to play. There are movies she's chosen where I'm like, I did not want to see that. Cate Blanchett, I would probably enjoy her doing anything.

I could do a whole episode of Cate Blanchett. A whole episode. And what we call that? Gay candy. Listen, listen. Gay candy. I'm glad you heard that, gay candy. Anyway, what is the gayest candy? Oh my God. We have to move on. Now I'm thinking about it. That's Halloween. Now or laters? That's what I was going to say. Airheads. Pop rocks. Pop rocks are pretty fucking gay. Okay.

Put it in your mouth and then wait for something fizzy to happen. Snickers. Snickers. That's gay as fuck, bro. Nuts in your mouth. The way you said that so quick. Listen, there is no straight way to eat a Snickers bar. Doesn't exist. That is...

I have now been transformed. Never in my life could I have predicted this is where the conversation would go. And I, you know, Sam, you took all the air out of me because I was going to say ring pop. But like, okay, you want a drippy ring pop? Snickers? But like the visualization of you making a Snickers. Ring pops are pretty gay. But Snickers, the fact that when you eat it, it does like stretch. Like there's like a very. They have that vein. Yeah. Not the vein. Not the vein.

vein yeah that's yeah yeah y'all are going to hell straight to hell jesus the vein and the vein and the feeling girl listen now come on now are you okay oh my god i have been forever changed and also they do snickers minis too so you got range it's just like i don't need no snickers mini okay

I'm not in the Snickers mini club. Can we get a king size? Can we get a king size? Oh my God. Anyway, listeners, what are you feeling or not feeling this week? I'm feeling like a Snickers bar. You know what, girl? Leave your Snickers at home. But you listeners, check in with us. You can get at us at vibecheckatsnitcher.com.

On that note, thank you all for listening to this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platform. Also, a huge thank you to our producer, Chantel Holder, engineer Brendan Burns, and Marcus Halm for our theme music and sound design.

Special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda Management and Production. And last but not least, thank you to Jared O'Connell and Emile Deskender for all of their help.

So again, we want to hear from you and don't forget our Ask Us Anything episode coming to you soon. You can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com. And in the meantime, keep in touch with us on Twitter at Zach Stafford, at Sam Sanders, and at The Ferocity. Also use the hashtag vibecheckpod. We do check and interact there. So feel free to get ahold of us there. And you can also follow us on TikTok at vibecheckpod. Stay tuned for another episode next Wednesday, you guys. Bye. Bye. Bye.

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