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Can you keep up? I've been losing my breath. I've been losing my breath. We're in it. We're running. We're running. We're running. She's running. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Stafford. And you are listening to Vibe Check. Kamala edition, I guess. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

How a week changes things. Like, come on now. So, I mean, just last week, we were still talking about Sleepy Joe and what he's going to do. But y'all have heard by now, there's been so much political news.

Joe finally did it. You did it, Joe. He stepped down this Sunday, which means now Kamala Harris, his vice president, is now on her way to being the presumptive and soon to be confirmed Democratic nominee for president. It's not official yet, but it should be very soon.

Knowing that, keep in mind, we're taping this entire episode on a Tuesday morning. Things are shifting by the minute, by the hour. So by the time you hear this, dear listeners, some things might have changed a bit. Don't hold that against us. Yeah, we know for sure that by the time you listen to this conversation, Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel will have addressed Congress. He will have privately met Washington.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And what's funny is like all of us in the podcasting space are all news really are dealing with this breaking news issue now at a bigger level because I was listening to Pod Save America and they were taping when Nancy Pelosi finally, you know, put her support behind Kamala and they were talking about how she wouldn't. And then suddenly they were like, Tommy Vitor was like, well, actually, nevermind. It just happens. So give all of us grace. We have production times that we have to do. Also, the Nancy of it all, real quick sidebar. I'll never get over her kneeling with the Kente cloth. No.

But I'll give it to her. She knows what she's doing. She knows what she's doing. I mean, an iconic meme, which we're going to talk about later. Iconic memes. Oh, the long tail of that kente cloth. I'm so ready because Zach is going to lead us in a conversation of all the memery. The kente of it all. The everything. Before we do that, let's just check in. In this busy, crazy Newsweek. Ladies, how you feeling? Zach, how are you? What is your vibe today?

My vibe is good. I mean, I have felt more energized the past few days than I have in, I don't know when. It does feel like, in some ways, the excitement of 2019, which was the last campaign I reported on, and just having so many nominees and being able to be like, oh, there could be a gay president. There could be a black woman president. There could be a woman president. Like, there was just so much excitement and possibility in the air. And then when Biden became the nominee, it all, like, sucked out of the room, and then it became white men, and then it was like a march towards white men.

But now we're back and it's just more interesting, more exciting, and more relevant. But it's also bringing back some past issues I have with just everyone in the world that consumes news. And that is people watch the news constantly right now and they get very frustrated that they don't have answers or things aren't happening at the speed in which they're getting the news itself. I got so many calls over the past, I think it was like two,

Sunday to Monday on why isn't Pelosi supporting her? Why aren't these people coming out? Et cetera, et cetera. And I'd have to keep reminding people, family and friends, that news just broke at 145. That's the same 145 we all experienced at once. And Joe surprised everybody. I'm reading these TikToks. He surprised everybody. Everyone. But I think what people need to understand is just because you have access to 24-7 news doesn't mean information is going to be available to you at the same speed. You have to breathe. Yes.

take a second, go for a walk. To quote Sam Sanders, touch grass. Like, I last night, to unplug from the addictive chaos of the cable news, because now I keep CNN on. Thank you, Max, at all times. I went and saw Twister. I knew Twister was going to be mad. Was it good? It was good for like a very...

D-level movie. I like Glenn Powell. I love Glenn Powell. It's a good time. He has a moment where he walks out the house in a rainstorm in a white t-shirt and people were clapping. People were gasping. It was a moment. The reason why Glenn Powell is rising, what the universe is giving all of us right now, you need a himbo to take your mind off the world. Go find your himbo. Go find that thing that lets you forget that there is a chaos within you.

raging in DC and find some peace and then come back to it. Hembo serenity now. I'm going to go watch a bunch of videos of Post Malone dancing dumbly. That always suits me. You know what? I saw one of those clips and I'm not a big Post Malone, but it was delightful. He had on like some leopard print shorts. Come on. He be moving. He be uncle moving. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. To that point, find things that still bring you joy. What we're signing up for right now is a really bumpy ride. So take a break when you can. Yes. I love that. Zaid, what's your vibe? You know, speaking to what Zach said, I want to talk about chaos in an etymological sense to bring poetry into it for a moment. So the Latin root of chaos means void, right?

An abyss. Nothingness is basically, you know, what chaos originally meant. That's not really how it exists in practice. Like, it's not usually what we mean, right? When we say, like, someone or something's chaotic, it's just kind of anything could happen. It's overwhelming, unpredictable, right? Which usually...

has a negative connotation, which I think is linked to that sense of the void. Anything can happen, but the bad things will happen, is usually what we mean when we talk about things feel so chaotic right now, right? I'm overwhelmed. I'm scared. But if this podcast is about news culture and how it all feels, I think it's important for us to acknowledge that since Sunday—

Things do feel chaotic, right? You know, even more so. I mean, in the middle of prepping for this, you know, the head of the Secret Service agency announced that she's stepping down. That's a big deal. I keep having to remind myself there was a damn presidential attempted assassination. Totally forgot. Totally forgot.

Yo, I really did too. It actually can leave your mind for a moment. Isn't that incredible? You know Trump's mad about that. He is mad. He's mad. America said, walk it off. You'll be okay. Walk it off, honey. They were like, there ain't nothing worse than what school kids deal with every week. Keep moving. You and your little ear piercing from Claire's will be okay. Not an ear piercing from Claire's.

But, you know, so all of this is going on. And I feel like what the last few days have reminded me is that chaos is actually about infinite potential.

If anything can happen, that means change can happen. That means hope is actually the dominant factor of chaos, right? And I think it's important for us to remember that. And, you know, it's so interesting how in different ways we respond to fear and anxiety. One of those strategies is to revert to the old patterns, right?

There's no way a woman, a black woman is going to become president. There's no way things can get better. But listen, like I said, 10 days ago, a presidential nominee almost was assassinated. Remember all of the predictions we were all making, understandably. And look at us now. Who could have foreseen? Yeah. And also, don't forget.

Many years ago, a black man with the middle name Hussein, who was called a Muslim by half the country, everyone said he couldn't win. He won twice. You never know. The impossible is impossible until it's possible. Yeah. So my vibe is how can I seize the potential of this chaos? How can, like Zach said, take a deep breath.

Focus, concentrate on what's important. There's no way forward but through. What do I need to take through that door with me? That's my advice. I love that. Sam, what about you? It's church today. Listen, sometimes. I might pass around the offering plate. Come on, somebody. You know my Venmo, baby. You know my Venmo.

What about you, Sam? Oh my God. My vibe is still something that I mentioned on stage during our live show at the Ford. My vibe this week is discernment. You know, for the last several weeks, we've been in this moment where news is

is moving so fast that everyone is talking all at once and everyone feels the need to talk all at once all the time very loudly. And what I'm trying to remind myself right now is that the loudest voices that you're hearing and seeing may very well be the dumbest ones. And you don't have to join a chorus of stupidity just because they're singing. And I'm trying to remind myself that it is okay to stop and think before you speak.

It is okay to save some stuff for the group chat and not just put it all online. And it's okay to be a little circumspect in how you, as Zach says, move through the world right now. This is not me asking for decorum. This is not me asking for civility or censorship. That's not my place. But what I am making the case for is discernment. Discernment. And what I mean by that is words mean things.

Use them wisely. Take a beat before you use them, perhaps. And think about how and where your words might be received and why you're saying them and towards what end. Being loud and being helpful are two very different things. Yes.

Be discerning. That's my vibe. How can I exercise discernment right now? Discernment, alignment, chakras in order. That's what we're doing. We're keeping it right, keeping it tight. But I will say, don't use discernment with the coconut meme.

Put it everywhere. I love the coconut meme. Go crazy. Go crazy. We love it. Climbing up that coconut tree. I will say what I knew Kamala was about to be our new nominee was when I, on Saturday, I think, began posting coconut memes on our Instagram. I have never seen so much traffic before.

on our Instagram. Like people were really liking, commenting, resharing. And then I talked to a friend who works in politics and he said that this week has been the biggest jump in democratic content on TikTok and the history of TikTok.

because of all of these memes. It gets really blowing things up, which we'll talk about later. But it's like, post a meme. It's how you're going to grow your following if that's what you're caring for right now. Can I tell you, I almost went to the store yesterday to buy some coconuts to show up on screen today with a coconut. Listen, I'm meeting some friends for drinks tonight when the Maggie Smith is time for our monthly meetup. And I'm praying I can get a pina colada because I have had an angering

I just had a hankering. Yes. On that note. Oh,

All right, coconuts. I want to thank all of you who sent us fan mail. Special shout out for those of you who left a review of the show. If you love this show, want to support it, please make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast listening platform. Subscribe to our show on Apple Podcast and leave a review. And most importantly, tell a friend. And if you're feeling real frisky, please.

Come find us in the coconut orchard over on Patreon. I think it's a grove. Patreon.com. A grove. A grove. Okay. Come find us in the coconut grove over on Patreon. Patreon.com. I need a pina colada within 24 hours or I'm going to snap. On that note, let's jump in, shall we? Let's go. Coconuts to the sky. Let's go.

You know, as many of you know, before I was elected as vice president, before I was elected as United States senator, I was the elected attorney general, as I've mentioned, of California. Before that, I was a courtroom prosecutor. In those roles, I took on perpetrators of all kinds. Predators who abused women.

fraudsters who ripped off consumers, cheaters who broke the rules for their own gain. So hear me when I say I know Donald Trump's type.

Y'all, listen to that. What a difference a week makes. We're not just hearing for the first time, really, Kamala come out as the Dem nominee directly against Trump. We're also hearing a new kind of strength, charisma, and...

Riz, perhaps, in this candidate. Yeah, Riz. Clarity is a word. She's focused. Uniqueness, nerve, and talent, baby. And mind you, she came out to Beyonce's song, Freedom.

from the Lemonade album. It's like, what a difference 36 hours makes. And can we also talk about how Miss Beyonce, within hours, just a few, I think it was two hours I saw reported, gave her the clearances for that. She was like, yeah, girl, go ahead. Beyonce never does that. And made sure it was in the news. She was like, I can write a story about it. I'm giving her this song. Wow. No, it's wild. I mean, so we're seeing all of these things come into focus. Mm-hmm.

You know, Kamala is already stepping up and saying, I'm the nominee and here is my plan of attack. Before we move on to the logistics of what happens next, I just want to ask y'all that first little tidbit of her as the new nominee. How do you feel about it? Are you confident? Do you have notes? Just give me your direct feedback on that.

I am so hyped for her because I remember covering her in the 2020 campaign and she was talking like this back then. But that was before Trump had been convicted of a lot of the crimes that we've seen him commit as president and before his presidency. It's before, you know, E. Jean Carroll won her case against him for the sexual assault. And so like all of this was in the abstract.

There wasn't anything concrete for us to respond to. We knew what was true as people that know who Donald Trump is, but his base, you know, wasn't on that same side. Now Kamala has an actual convicted felon

And as a prosecutor, there is nothing sweeter to her tongue than this. So, you know, I remember when the protesters and a lot of people were like, she's a cop, she's a cop, she's a cop. But, you know, right now we have a criminal running for office and who wants to be a dictator? And, you know, this cop is needed at the moment and she's really stepping up for it. Yeah. Saeed? You know, going off of that, Hunter Walker, who reports for Talking Points Memo, I follow him on Blue Sky and he was talking about when he was in the White House office

you know dealing with all the press conferences with trump you know he was like trump would get irritated my questions sure but he was like watching the way he would respond to black women or women of color journalists in that same space like it would get so nasty so quickly like trump can't handle it and so again you know the chaos is absolutely swirling but the fact that

And I don't know if this was intention or how things just played out. In the end, it doesn't matter. It's just reality at this point. But what happened is that there was the assassination attempt, and then the RNC went on for, what, four, kind of five days because Trump spoke technically past midnight for that last speech. And couldn't even stay on discipline. He talked about Biden even though he said he was not going to. Remember that? Yeah.

And so they wasted all that energy talking about Biden, talking about Biden being old. And then we get to Sunday and it's like, guess what? You are now the oldest presidential nominee. And Kamala Harris is a black woman, woman of color prosecutor who's going to bring it to you every ball. I know she's going to do that. There you go. Yes. I want to talk about what happens to all these delegates because there's some interesting movement there. But before we get there, I do want us to acknowledge that.

Joe Biden, many are saying he has committed one of the most noble acts of his time in politics. We haven't heard from him yet as of this taping Tuesday morning. He hasn't spoken since that letter announcing his departure on Sunday. He'll speak tonight. How do we feel about Joe? I got to say, hats off to you, my bro. I think you did the right thing. I'm sure it was hard. I think it took you a few months longer than it should.

But thank you for doing the right thing is how I'm feeling. How are y'all feeling? I agree 100%. I think he has done something that will echo through our history forever and ever as one of the most important and good things for this country and its future. Because what he has done very clearly is paint America.

A contrasting picture. And this is good storytelling, just basic storytelling, good and bad, villain versus hero. And Donald Trump has collapsed an entire party around his ego and his own power and his thirst for power and also his thirst for vengeance. He wants to use the country as a weapon and has been very clear about that. He's not saying no. He's like, I have an agenda when I go into that office. Joe Biden is doing the opposite. He's saying, you know what? What's good for this country is if I step away, if I let them take

make their own decisions and use the power that I've built and the resources I've been able to give them to make their own decisions. And that's the best gift I can give you. And I think those are just such different pictures and different ways of governing. And the latter with Joe Biden is what a democracy is. It's not about singular people. It's not a dictatorship. It is about the people. And Joe Biden said, here, people, here's your choice. You have the opportunity. Yeah. I will say it is interesting,

To see who the media and who the American public grants humanity and emotional interiority, the way Biden was understandably gifted the grace of being like – people being like, I don't know. This is really hard being told you're too old to do what you're clearly born to do and all of this, that it's an emotional decision. I'm like, how interesting that we've been able to make it nine months.

into a genocide. And I haven't quite seen this kind of emotional, oh, it's just so hard. And oh, it's gut-wrenching. That being said, he made the right decision. I would have loved that he made this decision in 2020, but I'm moving forward, looking forward, trying to move with hope and clarity. And I think his decision and the timing has presented...

us with a real opportunity and to his credit and what a blessing when you make a good decision to get immediate evidence that you made the right decision and that's also something that's been startling like what is it like 125 million dollars or something has been raised you know like all these small donors stepping up like if he had any doubts i hope like i don't care too much about his

feelings, to be honest, I don't really give a fuck. He's just a politician. Do your job. But also it's like, look, you have confirmation that you listened to the people and did the right thing. Yeah. You know, one of the things I've always railed against from my time covering politics to before and after is how long these campaign seasons are. We'll see people hinting about possibly running for president in

days after the election finishes, four years in advance. It's too long. It's always been too long. And I don't think the length of it helps our democracy or helps voters become more informed. I think it's the opposite because they get tired and just check out. What Joe Biden has done with this move has all of a sudden made an incredibly short campaign season.

for four months. I think that's actually good for us. Yeah. I would love if this became like a norm because- Oh, no. It should be a norm. And Sam, this is very equivalent to our love of a 90-minute film. All of our loves of a 90-minute film. Come on. Is this campaign about to be a 90-minute thriller? This is a 90-minute thriller. I'll take it. I'll take it. Relaxed structure. I'm into it. Basic storytelling. Bam. Speaking of thrillers,

What's not going to be a thriller is the Democratic convention in Chicago next month. You know, there had been talk for a second. Nancy Pelosi had hinted that she might be open to challengers to Kamala. Joe Manchin said he might run against her. Some folks were wanting an open or brokered convention where there was jockeying on the floor to choose a nominee. It seems as if that's not going to happen, at least at

at time of this taping. As of this taping Tuesday morning, Zach got these numbers for us. Kamala was able to get the endorsements of 263 congressional Democrats, 23 Democratic governors, 35 senators, and all assumed challengers. That means with all of those pledges,

She has already secured enough Democratic delegates to assure that she'll have the nomination on the first ballot. And Democrats have already said that they're going to have that ballot taken.

tallying before the convention. They're saying that the vote tallying will happen virtually before the convention, maybe even before August 7th, which means almost definitively no open convention, no brokered convention. This DNC in Chicago is going to be a unity fest for Kamala Harris. How do we feel about that?

I'm feeling great. And I would argue against any person that says this is, you know, a coronation. They were worried that this is going to be a coronation because of the speed in which it would happen. I don't think this is a coronation. I think these delegates, if they were not on her side, would have voiced it in those phone calls that she started spewing out. She did 200 in the first day. Like that was the moment in which these delegates, and this is sadly how our democratic process is built. These people are the decision makers at the end of the day, even though we had primaries the other day.

This is how this works. So all the rules are being followed. And what this also gives us an opportunity to do is to actually vet these VPs in a really exciting way. And also, if the Democrats are smart, they can use all this momentum to really take out all the oxygen from cable news, from Trump, and just make this about who are all these amazing young Democrats

that could also step up and help lead this party. Because what we've had, the problem we've had over the past, I would say eight years at least, is that we have moved quickly to having single party leadership, that it's Biden and Trump. And that we don't know who are the people that are gonna take over. And this is something we're all dealing with, with our jobs. You know, you have the Anna Wintour's running all of media, who's taking over for her? Joe Biden taking the Democratic Party, et cetera, et cetera. We now have an opportunity for Gen Xers to really step up.

and millennials and show how powerful they can be across all these tickets and also leadership across all types of vectors of business. So I think it's really exciting culturally. Saeed? Ooh. Well, one thing I would point out is that I think a significant indicator, and I'm reading, this is from the New York Times on Monday, Vice President Kamala Harris raised $81 million in the first 24 hours since announcing her bid. But this is what I want to focus on.

888,000 donors contributed on that first day, 60% of whom were making their first contribution for the 2024 contest. And you know what that means?

they'll be also maybe first-time voters. Kamala is already showing she can expand the pie in some really new and creative ways. Sorry to cut you off, Saeed. Go ahead. Yeah, and so, you know, I think significantly to this idea that the party coalescing around Kamala Harris in the last few days, that it's just like a backroom deal, if that was the case, if we were being dragged to this change, you wouldn't see this kind of response from small donors. You know, I don't like the idea of

of writing off people making their like $5 donations as if they're just like lemmings. I'm like, no, people are responding. They're excited about her. And I think we have to acknowledge that as well. I will say,

I do have some, you know, we're moving forward, but I do have some questions for the people, AOC being one of them, who were really focused on this idea that we had to stick with Biden because it was like just all but guaranteed that Kamala was going to be brushed aside. That didn't happen. And so I just want to acknowledge that I'm like curious about this and that a couple of weeks ago, Zach pointed out that like, listen, we're going to have to stick with Biden.

If France can get their act together in just like a handful of days, we can too. And I'm excited to see that's what happened. This is the thing. America can move quickly when it wants to. I remember how Democrats and Republicans got their asses to the floor of Congress right once the Twin Towers fell and passed all kinds of laws that have changed our lives for the last 20 plus years. That's a good point. They reshaped it in days. Right.

And so when America wants to move, it can. I know that for sure. I want us to go to break, but I want to just for a second ask y'all what you're thinking at all, if at all, about VP picks. I got to say, Mayor Pete's been looking fresh. Mayor Pete's been looking good on these late night shows. He talks a good game and I could envision him running circles around J.D. Vance in a VP debate.

I'll say that. Well, I think all of them could run circles around trading your fans in a debate. And I think even Trump is beginning to get a little nervous on that point, too. Kamala Harris and her team have three weeks. This is another aspect of what is unprecedented. So within three weeks, her team has to vet Kamala.

what is like four or five potential VP contenders, none of whom have been vetted at this level. And, you know, this is one of Kamala Harris's strengths because of her high profile. She, all of the awful research, you know, things in the nineties and her record and all that we know about, but these other people, they're going to have to do this work very, very quickly. And that makes me a little nervous, but we'll see. But you know, who's already vetted? Who? Mayor Pete. Oh,

oh mayor pete's been vetting himself since he was 12. that's since childhood that is true him and chastin they've been vetted so they they could do this but i don't think it is this time i don't think he is the right guy i think he's a really great attack dog on cable news i think he's gonna be a really great spokesperson for the campaign and we'll get an elevated position for the next um for this next administration if she was to win and then he can run in 2028 that's what i think um who i think is really surprising me because

you know, when we were talking about this privately, even a week or two ago, I put all my money on Governor Shapiro of Pennsylvania. I think it would be smart. That's where the assassination attempt to happen. That's where the Democrats really need to win. He's beloved even by conservatives of that state. So it makes sense to flip it. But the governor of Kentucky, Mr. Beshear, is really changing my mind. I'm not mad at it. He is.

really he's from you know I'm from Tennessee so I have issues with my northern neighbor most days I really have been sleeping on him he has really woken me up and he's not ugly he's not ugly that man also is the pinnacle of white heterosexuality like I was about to say I was like I don't know if he's I don't know if he's ugly or handsome I just know he looks like he was made in a lab wait so

It's like, what did you say to me years ago about white men? You're like, is he attractive or does he look like he's financially stable? Right. And that's financially stable. Yeah. Hot or good credit score? Which is it?

I don't know if she wants it, but Gretchen Whitmer, the governor... They tried to kidnap her already. Let her alone. She survived an assassination plot that was actually based in Ohio because of her incredible record. So I think, you know, she... And she's just incredible, but I don't know if she wants it. I mean, there are a lot of reasons why she could continue to be a great governor up there. But we'll see. We'll see. Nora's saying to wrap. So we're going to do that. When we come back...

more Kamala and what she's up against, including misogynoir. All right, we'll be right back.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.

Welcome back. So listeners, as we mentioned at the top of the show, news is moving very, very fast. And just during our quick break, when we all ran to the bathroom, got some water, some news broke that we want to share with you that you already know about because it's Wednesday. If you're listening to this on Wednesday, the news is Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer have endorsed Vice President Kamala Harris for the presidential nomination, which is huge news because she was missing some of this big leadership. And now it's like, who's left? Obama, right? Yeah. At this point,

After today, I'm going to be like, who's not going to endorse Kamala? Like, I mean, we could go down the list. Oprah's going to come out and do it. Taylor Swift's going to do it. Like, come on. And I'm like, all right, sure, go ahead. I'm sure Team Kamala is very happy about all of this. Very happy about all of this. And I keep thinking with all of this going down, one of the things that we haven't talked about yet and one of the things that all these Democrats know they have to keep in mind is that they cannot piss off their most devoted quarterbacks.

core loyal base. Black people, specifically black women. Since the time I was in graduate school, the data confirmed that when you adjust for education and income, black women vote more than anybody else. And in the last several elections for president's

The opinions of black voters, namely black women, have set the pace of the Dems race and decided the candidate. When black women supported Obama, that's when he became the nominee. When they supported Biden, that's when he became the nominee. And so Democrats know they can't screw with black women and –

Kamala has Black women. They got to stay in line with her. They do. Well, let's drill in there. That's actually a great kickoff point because not only does she have Black women, but she has the pan-Hellenic organizations all behind her. All the AKAs, all the Soros, they've all lined up for her. And we saw that immediately when news broke that Biden would be supporting her on the ticket as president. On Sunday night, over 40,000 Black women gathered on Zoom and they raised over a million dollars for her with an

hours. And I want to note that the COO of Zoom herself, a brown woman, stepped up, came to work on a Sunday and expanded the tools for those women so that they could all rally together. And that was just one of many moments within 24 hours that led to Kamala breaking

every record for fundraising that we've seen in a modern election. I have a question. Was the 40,000 Black women a 40,000 Black women Zoom call or a 40,000 AKA Zoom call? Because 40,000 AKA, ski-wee-in, ski-ee-in, my-my. They don't play. They don't play. Some of the Black women I follow on Blue Sky were in that Zoom event. I saw a clip briefly of the wonderful actor icon, Jennifer Lewis, speaking. And it was just, I got emotional.

I think of my mother who passed away, you know, a little over a decade ago, who was so passionate about politics. And just to see the speed, the elegance, you know, and enthusiasm with which these Black women came together, you know, because I think they understood that it couldn't just be a, let's just wait and see what happens with Kamala. It was like, no, we need to loudly announce to our country that we are organized and we will get to work in support.

Because I think what every Black person, but certainly Black women voters in this country deserve is a transition from the last decade of, thank you, Black women.

But we'll take it from here. That was the other part of the sentence. They would say, thank you, black woman. But the other part of it was, we'll take it from here. A transition to, we trust you. What do you want to do? You're in charge now. That's what I think black women deserve. And that's what I would like to see. Yeah.

Yeah. And what I found so striking about that moment and why it got so much news pickup is that in the days, weeks, however you want to measure time leading up to this big moment of Biden stepping down, when we were just speculating on a potential Kamala Harris presidential run, people were already saying there's no way she'd win. She's a black woman. It's not possible.

on TikTok, there's a huge conversation going on because the creator, Fenita, who became very well-known recently for talking about the hate discrepancies. Yeah, she's a Black woman creator. She's become very famous on TikTok. She has a podcast. But she made a lot of news by pointing out how white women make

more money than she does. And then it spun out of control. And now she's become like the villain of TikTok. But she leaned into the villain persona by making videos saying that Kamala shouldn't run. We're being ridiculous for even considering her. And what she was speaking to is the massage noir that we all assume would come rushing in. But I was shocked to see, you know, another Black person be leading that before it even happened. So I'd love to throw that to y'all and how y'all are responding to all the anti-Blackness that's already seeping in. Okay.

So from the moment that there began to be discussion of Biden stepping down and people saying, well, all the party elites saying this are white. What do black voters think? I just began to canvas all the black people in my life who were not in Los Angeles because Los Angeles is a bubble. It's a bubble.

but i've been talking to my aunt betty who was in alabama i've been talking to my brother who was in south texas i've been talking to my childhood friend nitra who was a black woman with two kids outside of austin texas and i've been calling other folks just to say all right black folks in my life what do you think how are you feeling and the first thing they're saying is that like

The way we think about politics is just so much more complex and complicated and nuanced than any pundit can say in a tweet. It just is. And so anyone that thinks they can sum up for you the opinions of black voters in 180 characters or less, let me say this clearly. Fuck them. They don't know.

And to reduce the intellect and voting power of black people to a tweet is dismissive and rude. So don't do it, first of all. And then secondly, I do think that, you know, the finita of it all is real. Like not 100% of black people are not all going to support Kamala Harris. Black people are not a monolith. And I don't want to act like

people like Vanita don't exist. They do. They're allowed to exist, but I don't think they're the majority. So what I'm trying to keep in mind between now and November is that if I find myself even beginning to think about offering a blanket statement about what black voters think or want, it's a reminder to just actually, how about you go and talk to some real black people and ask them what they want and what they need. That's more helpful. Anywho. Um,

So many thoughts about this. A thoughtful critique of white supremacy demands that we pay attention to the way white supremacy uniquely targets and punishes Black women and Black queer people, quite frankly. But I think as we were saying with discernment, what are you using your feelings to do?

If you are using your observation of how white supremacy works in this country to dismiss the possibility—

of a black woman's ascendance, I think that's a problem. I think that's something worth looking into. I think it's somewhat similar to the trap of the phrase or the term electability. I'm like, what are we actually talking about when we're talking about electability? It sounds like we're talking about an idea of what you think is possible. Yes. And for every election since George Bush won the first time, electability has meant nothing.

Barack Obama wasn't electable until he won. Donald Trump was not electable until he won. So who's to say Kamala Harris can't do the same thing? Electability means nothing in our current moment. It just doesn't. Also,

Also, when we talk about just like basic demographics, a black man won in 2008, a white woman won the popular vote in 2016. So why can't a black woman win all of those votes and more? And also, if we put this in a larger historical context, we as black people have lived in this country for a longer time as slaves or enslaved people than we have been free people. And it's been a very short amount of time that we've been free. And within that freedom period, especially the past 60 years-

That's when we see better access to voting, better access to housing. Things have changed so quickly for Black people. So we as Black people need to really own the fact that radical change for us can happen very quickly if we let it and we fight for it. And I do think this president, if she's for you, this is worth fighting for. She is not worth throwing under the bus before she even goes out of the station like we saw a lot of people do. Also significantly, Black women voters, as we mentioned, the most consistent voting

voting bloc in our country haven't had the opportunity to vote for a black woman at this level since Shirley Chisholm. And so much has changed. And my refrain will be, look at how much has changed in just the last 10 days.

I am not going to limit myself to past possibilities. I also want to point out, and I literally just got a text update about this from a friend just last night. There was another Zoom that's worth talking about. There was a Zoom, and I think it was called like Win With Black Men. The names of all these Zooms are so cute. But I believe, one second, 25%

1,000 Black men participated in a Zoom in support of Kamala Harris, and I believe they raised nearly $2 million. So there's real energy here. And I think what we need to do— I love how the Black women raised so much more than the Black men. I know. Bow down. Bow down. So I think the answer is not to ignore how misogynoir functions in this country. It is to say, yeah, it's real out here. What am I going to do?

What am I going to do? How am I going to navigate this conversations to make sure I'm one not feeding a demon that will never be sated. You cannot placate misogynoir, right? You cannot indulge it in a way that will protect you. What are you going to do if you want to support Kamala Harris? I'm not telling you how to vote, but if you believe in her, then you need to say it with your chest. Yeah. And that what you said, Saeed should be.

broadcast to every person in this country today because when we do see massage noir, when we see racism, when we see classism and you feel that anger in you, that whatever, that negative inside of you, that's not your body saying to look away. It's your body saying to do something about it. And if you are feeling massage noir, pop up a

around Kamala. You're saying there's no way she could win. Then figure out a way for her to win because you know in your body that it's not right. That's what it's telling you. I do, though, not to throw a wrench in things. I do want to say that in the midst of all this conversation, I'm not going to allow myself to forget about her record. And we should. And I'm not going to allow myself to forget about what it might show me about her future behavior. Yeah. Well, let's go there, actually. And one place I'd love to start is with gossip.

So we've already seen reports that she's not going to be meeting with or presiding over Netanyahu's visit this week on Wednesday. And for the record, Kamala was the first person in Biden administration to come out for a temporary ceasefire during a speech she gave before Biden did.

That was a low bar. No, I actually want to draw attention to that. That speech was in Selma in March of this year. And as it turned out from reporting from, I believe, the Wall Street Journal, the context of her speech was actually watered down by the National Security Council.

And the Black audience was very excited about it. So, you know, I'm not going to take that away from her. Yeah, and it was a big moment that like echoed into the Black preachers coming together and really coming out in support of Palestinians. So she was the first to lay the groundwork, a similar comp to this, if we're thinking of like the larger context. Biden was doing similar for Obama when it came to LGBTQ rights. He spoke outside the White House. He pushed everyone forward. He pushed...

He pushed Barack to support gay marriage. Exactly. So she has a very complicated, even recent history with things like Palestine. So I'd love to have us respond to that because that's been such a big part of what we've been talking about on the show. Yeah.

What I've been disappointed by is how the rush of the Biden news and the rush of the Kamala news has made a lot of people forget about Palestine. And I was thinking about this specifically when it was announced that Beyonce's song Freedom was going to become Kamala's campaign song. You know who will never say the word Palestine? Beyonce. Yeah.

And so I want to be very careful that I don't let the momentum of the representation and the visibility of it all have me forget about these real issues. And I also don't want it to allow me to forget about her track record. We know that Kamala Harris was a prosecutor. We played that clip where she says that she could prosecute the case against Trump. But there's a difference between Kamala Harris prosecuting a case against Donald Trump and

And Kamala, as California AG and state prosecutor, prosecuting poor folks and black folks and brown folks. And I'm not saying that's where she's at now, but I'm saying we have to remember that that is where she was. As prosecutor in California, she said she'd be against the death penalty, but then as California AG, she argued that it should stand. As San Francisco's DA, she fought to uphold many wrongful convictions.

She championed a bill that would prosecute parents of chronically truant children. She declined to take a stance on a measure that would reduce some low-level felonies to misdemeanors. She opposed bills that would require the AG office to investigate shootings involving officers. Then she refused to support a statewide bill that would mandate use of body cameras by the police.

I'm saying this not to say that that is still who she is now, but I'm saying this to say that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. And Kamala's record as a prosecutor and AG in California shows me that in many ways she could talk the talk of a progressive. But in moments where there was pressure, she would moderate and move to the middle and support a security state.

And so what I'm saying is that going forward, I want to watch for that. I want to look for that. And I want to hold her feet to the fire if and when I see it happen, because I think my job is to hold these politicians to the fire, not to make them new pairs of shoes. Yeah. And I can support someone like Kamala and still say all of that.

Yes. I'd like to see Kamala prosecute some war crimes, and she has ample evidence to do that thanks to the international court. Some things that I would point out on this, and I know we're going to go a little bit long, but I do think it's important. In addition to being morally unconscionable, U.S. support of the war in Gaza has been incredibly unpopular. That was one of the issues that was so frustrating with Biden. So to your point about her political agility, some people might call it slipperiness, I

I have hope that she might be more likely to read the point of popularity and go, yeah, why would I support? I'm trying to consolidate support. Why would I do something that would alienate so many people? I want to point to an article from the Wall Street Journal that came out today because, again, she will not be present publicly.

for Bibi's address to Congress, but she will be meeting privately. And an aide said, during the meeting, Harris is expected to tell Netanyahu that, quote, it is time for the war to end in a way where Israel is secure, all hostages are released. The suffering of Palestinian civilians in Gaza escalates

ends and the Palestinian people can enjoy their right to dignity, freedom, and self-determination. There was a point where Biden wouldn't even acknowledge the death numbers in Gaza. So though this is still a measured statement, I do think it signals the potential for a shift. And I say, let's pay attention to, let's pay attention to the people that Vice President Kamala Harris brings on for foreign policy decisions.

Will they be the same as Biden's team or will they be different? But here's what I want. Even hearing you say that statement, I would have loved for that statement to continue by her saying, and as president, if I keep seeing these atrocities, I'll cut off American funding for your bombs. Would love that. That's what I want. And I think that my job...

Our job as people who are concerned about this is to not let the momentum of it all keep us from saying, here's where we stand. Here's what we want. I want to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time and hold her feet to the fire like I would with Biden and Obama and the rest of them. Yeah, significantly, as we've talked about the overwhelming amount of endorsements that have come in.

one significant endorsement that hasn't come in, and I'm paying attention to this, is our one Palestinian congressperson. That is Representative Rashida Tlaib of Michigan. She said that she looks forward to engaging Kamala Harris in these conversations, but she asked for a transparent democratic process at the convention next month and, quote, hopes that there will be a fair vote

vote on the resolution at the DNC that calls for an arms embargo to stop the Israeli government's war crimes. And I don't want those voices silenced by the momentum behind Kamala. That's what I'm saying. And what I will say, and this is not my way to defend her or do any of the sorts around that, but what I will speak to is my own personal experience working with prosecutors as a reporter. I

lived in Chicago. I dealt with the DA's office a lot, the state attorney's office a lot. They're the ones that are prosecuting the cases that are usually around police shootings. And they're typically very conservative and they're always there to protect the state. And I have seen Kamala move quicker on progressive issues than most

or state's attorneys than I've ever seen with anyone else. She's a very movable person, which is what made her so slippery in her presidential race. And she dropped out first. It's because no one knew where she stood. So right now, she needs to move and stand still. Move and stay there. Exactly. There you go. Move and stay there and be very concrete.

concrete what i hear you saying is she needs to find her coconut tree and stand beside it yes stand by that coconut tree the thing that i'd love to end with is the coconut tree the memes are relentless i love them they bring me so much joy and for context the coconut tree clip uh for those that don't know this isn't a making of the democratic party this was an attack ad used by the republican national committee in 2023 they found the clip they released it as a way to make fun of her to make her look

insane, unwell, or whatever. My mother used to, she would give us a hard time sometimes and she would say to us, I don't know what's wrong with you young people. You think you just fell out of a coconut tree? I, however, what I've loved about the memes, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, is that it's speaking to a truth that Sam and I have talked privately about as people that have been around Vice President Kamala Harris over the years in different roles in the U.S. government, is that when you're with her one-on-one, she's actually a

quite charming, very funny, very interesting. She's really fun and actually magnetic. - I love that clip of her talking about how to cook a turkey for Thanksgiving. - Exactly, I love it. And that clip is like, that's like the vice president Kamala Harris I met the first time. So the memes are humanizing her in this really incredible way. But how have you guys been receiving them? 'Cause we've been using them before she was even the nominee on our Instagram.

I think this is Democrats and Kamala's team doing exactly what you do when the other side tries to make a character trait a weakness. You turn it into a strength. Oh, you've got a clip of me that you say makes me sound loopy. Let's make it a meme that drives my nomination. Oh, you think my laugh is awkward and weird? Let's set a laugh track of Kamala Harris to Charlie XCX's brat. Like, take every weakness and make it a strength.

and lean into it. That is the only way to win. And to see her doing this already, make,

It makes me hopeful. In stark contrast to Biden and other members of Congress putting so much energy into trying to ban TikTok, it is interesting to see Kamala Harris and her team, right? It's a whole team. It's not just one person making these decisions. Embrace the brat green movement, the coconuts. We live in the context. Yeah, and use it. And it's been very interesting to see the enthusiasm just in the last couple of days on TikTok,

And, you know, other platforms. And yeah, it's another front. It's important to get people excited. Like, just like it's important, like we said, you need to have concrete platform positions. Say it with your chest comma. Tell us what you really stand for. People need to know the your only argument cannot be I am not Trump.

And so I think it's refreshing to see that she's embracing both, you know, the kind of atmospheric incitement that memes provide, but also hopefully she's going to tap into policy positions that can, one, save lives in places like Gaza and acknowledge that there's a strong movement here in the United States that until now Biden has been looking at as an enemy as opposed to as an ally. And I will say if she's looking for someone to go talk to,

She has a person's number that I think would be very useful right now. And this is a person that when I was the editor-in-chief of The Advocate, we nominated or we endorsed this person over Kamala and Biden and everyone. And that is Senator Elizabeth Warren. Speak up. That woman has vision. I miss her. She has a playbook. I miss her. She has things that I think in a 2024 light would be so amazing.

practical way to actually make happen. Oh, I would. She's been vetted before. I would walk to Washington. I would walk to Washington. People would get excited. I think they'd get excited. But from a policy standpoint, I don't think she's going to be VP. I think it's going to be a white man. But I think to Saeed's point and your point, Sam, in terms of memes too, Elizabeth Warren was very good at the meme and the digital. What they're doing is they're meeting the voters where they're at.

through these memes. That's what memes do. Memes are like that inside joke that they're saying, "I see you." And we need to do that in a policy way now. So keep giving us coconuts, but give us some policies that actually mean something too. In short, by the time this episode airs, Kamala Harris will have been in this incredible new position for like three days, basically.

always open to surprise. She's going to make mistakes. You know what Sam says, she has an extensive record and many liabilities that are absolutely going to become increasingly relevant as people say, yeah, well, what about this? What about that? What about immigration? What about public policy? But I think she's done a pretty good job so far. And I want to acknowledge that. I am very impressed at how she has navigated the chaos thus far. Yeah, she has. Well, well, with that, let's take a quick break. We'll

Don't go anywhere because we have some recommendations to help you maybe take your mind off all this news if you need. Let's put a pin in this coconut cake for now. Oh, God. I'm not done. Until November, baby. Until November, baby. That's fine.

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Okay, my loves, we are back. And before we end the show, of course, each week we like to share something that's helping us keep our vibes right. Zach, my beloved California coconut, what's your recommendation?

Well, my recommendation is a show out of the great country of Japan that I cannot stop watching. It is a show called The Boyfriend on Netflix. Have you all heard of this yet? No. I want to say, okay, is it the one, it's like a gay dating reality show? It's a gay dating reality show. Which is crazy because they have not made gay marriage legal in Japan yet. It's not legal. It's not legal. Very different kind of culture in that regard.

This is similar to we're here on HBO, which is incredible this season with drag queens going to states that are banning drag. The Boyfriend is a gay dating show taking place in a country that is pretty beloved globally, has a lot of great things it's given us culturally, but isn't there yet with queer rights. And they're putting these like

queer men in a dating show context that is so wholesome and tender and I think does real cultural work locally that I'm just blown away with but to give you context of the show unlike other dating shows it's not just them like living in a house or going on dates they move into a house they have separate bedrooms which is very clear they don't sleep in the same bedroom they have like very their own space and they all run a coffee truck together

And the dates are them working shifts at a coffee. So yes, they like literally their dates are like when they every day someone's announced to be the manager of the coffee truck and then they pick someone to work with them that they want to spend time with but they're also working and then as they work they're making money and that

money goes into a pot for the house and they have to manage their finances together and figure out their meals and how to pay for certain bills. So it's just like really wonderful. The highest stake thing that happens is two people that like each other. One gets the other's phone and sees his like grinder photos he had when he wasn't there before and immediately isn't into him because he has grinder photos.

So I'm like, girl, don't come to America. Well, then you ain't going to be into a lot of people over there. We've been so matured this episode that literally the Sagittarius in me just rose up and was like, say it, Saeed. Okay, so let me be messy for a second. Are they fine, though?

- So fine. So fine. And what's wild they are bringing to you, what I will say is the finest man by American standards is the one that gets the least action because all the men are too nervous to talk to him and they don't think there's a world in which he'd like them. So they all just like, don't take their shot. - It's hard for us sometimes. It's hard for us sometimes. - It's wild.

You know it's Leo season because Sam's like, yeah, how can I make a day dating show about men in Japan about me? How can I bring it? It really is. And then my final note is they do this amazing thing that Japanese television does with reality is that you're watching, you know, the reality of it all. These men dating and trying to fall in love. But you're also watching a cast of hosts who are also watching it.

and giving commentary. So you're watching like two shows at once and it's them giving their own internal reactions to what they're watching. And there's a drag queen who's giving reactions. It's really amazing. And it's really wholesome. I'm almost done with season four of Evil, which I've gotten back into. I might go to that. A nice antidote to the evil. This sounds very sweet. It's a good antidote. Low stakes, wholesome. What's it called?

The Boyfriend on Netflix. That's cute. I love that. Yeah. Ooh, Sam, what about you? Yeah, this is inspired by something Zach had brought up in the group chat before our taping. You know, when we were talking about what's going on with Biden as of Sunday when he stepped down, Zach was like, I'm feeling a lot about like endings right now. Endings are happening. Endings are a thing. And then you mentioned that...

that Donald Glover, a.k.a. Childish Gambino, his rap name, that he was going to end Childish Gambino's career and stop using that name with his latest Childish Gambino album, which came out last week. I've been playing it, and I have to recommend it. I am still gathering my thoughts. But I think the through line of Donald Glover the last several years is a level of artistic growth that I've been very impressed by.

I loved what he was doing with that show Swarm, which he co-wrote and co-produced. There were one or two other Childish Gambino albums released during and after a pandemic lockdown that were actually very interesting. And this one I find pretty awesome as well.

It's very interesting to think about someone like Donald Glover who's kind of constantly creating something to even hear him talk about an ending because you're like, it's never going to end. You just keep making stuff. Like, that's your thing. You've been making stuff for like 20 years now, and I like that. And so I'm listening to this album in the context of trying to imagine it as a kind of ending. And it makes my listening a lot more...

But yeah, I'm like ingesting this album in a much more intellectual way than I might have had Zach not planted the seed of like what an indie might mean. That said, even taking out the intellectuality of it all, it's kind of fun. I think I like it. The album is called, let me tell y'all listeners real quick. The album is called

Bando Stone and the New World. No idea what that means, but it's out now. And I think you should check it out so we can talk about it in the Patreon Coconut Grove. I'll give it a shot. His music is the I know he's very much a multi hyphenate, but I think I like his music the most.

I do have to say, just because we did talk about Misogynoir, he is weird when he has been asked about Black women. You know, because Interview Magazine, I think, allowed him to do that thing where you interview yourself. And he was like, why aren't you into Black women? He couldn't even answer his own question in a way that made sense. I hope part of what he's ending is his weirdness around Black women. I'll say

but I've enjoyed you know his music yeah and that song isn't there a single called Feels Like Summer on the album or something oh okay that one's been in the ether for a little bit I feel like I was hearing the Summer one for a little bit he has so many albums like he just surprise released an album like during one of the lockdowns and didn't even talk about it

Then he reissued it like a year later with some new tracks. He's been all over the place. So there's like a lot of Childish Gambino just in the ether, which is why I think, oh, this won't be the end. But to listen to it, imagining it as the end is very interesting. Go ahead. And my note on the end, the reason why I brought it up and you can go look at Chani Nichols, the amazing astrologer, her TikToks. But before Biden stepped down, many astrologers had predicted he would step down on Sunday because that was when the full moon entered Uranus.

Capricorn, which is the end of the cycle. And people have been predicting that since 2023 on Twitter. Witches. On that day. Yes, the witches showed up. Okay. Well, Saeed, what about you? What poem do you bring us? So the poem I'm bringing to you this week is very short. It's just two stanzas.

And it's funny, I saw it somewhere on the highways and byways online a few weeks ago and saved it for a moment that felt right. And I just think it brings together so much of what we've talked about regarding chaos and potential acknowledging the past and trying to move forward. The title is I Want to Go Back. It is by the poet Gregory Orr. I want to go back to the beginning. We all do. I think hurt hurts.

won't be there. But I'm wrong. Where the water bubbles up at the spring, isn't that a wound? Again, the title of that poem is I Want to Go Back by Gregory Orr. I love, you know, even among poems, like that's such a concise poem, but it has...

a whole world in it, a whole universe of meaning. Really beautiful. And yeah, I mean, it's like I said, you know, chaos is destabilizing and everything, but it also, it's like infinite potential, right? And wounds are,

also can be perceived as breakthroughs, right? Acknowledgement of change. And I think that's what Gregory Orr is pointing to. Oh, I love that. Yes. Thank you. All right, my dears. Well, we're going to end this episode before there's any more news, before any more America happens. We got to get out of here. Friends, what are you feeling or not feeling this week? What's your vibe? Check in with us at vibecheckatstitcher.com.

And my coconuts, that's the whole grove. That's the show. Thank all you coconuts for checking out this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platform. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts and leave a review. And most importantly, tell your fellow coconuts.

Yeah. And also, since our show does dive into politics and we're going to be tracking everything that's happening over the next hundred or so days, feel free to send our show to people in your life that you want to fight with, inform, educate. Let us do it for you. Awesome.

actually really great just kind of like I'm like you know I'm not going to argue with my aunt again let me just slide this podcast episode over I like that do it it's easy save your time we'll take the time as always huge thank you to our producer Chantel Holder feel better she's out this week we send our love to Chantel also thank you to our engineers Rich Garcia and Brendan Burns and Marcus Hom for our theme music and sound design

Special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda. And shout out to Ayesha Ayub who creates our social content and our intern, Ella Barnes. We want to hear from you. Don't forget, you can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com. Keep in touch with us on Instagram on our new page at vibecheck underscore pod and our Patreon where for $5 a month, you get direct access to our Coconut Grove. That is patreon.com slash vibecheck.

Vibe Check. Stay tuned for another episode next Wednesday. Who knows what the fuck will be going on America by next Wednesday, but I look forward to talking about it with you. It's going to be something. It's going to be something. Listen, take those coconut fibers and build yourself some armor to steal yourself for the next several months. Ooh, baby. Ooh, baby. Stitcher.

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