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Hello, my fellow lethargic lady. I'm feeling a little tired today. We had a weekend. We've had a week. We have had a week. America's had a week. You know, we all need to go to bed, I think. I'm Sam Sanders. You're Zach Stafford. Yes. And this is Vibe Check. Welcome. ♪♪

Saeed's not here today, sadly. Yeah, Saeed had some travel delays getting back home from LA. So he's still in transit, but he is safe. And we believe it's time of taping almost home. So you'll hear from him next week. Yeah. And also, I just got a text from my mom. Her flight back to Canada got delayed because of the same storm system Saeed's dealing with. She just got to the airport for her next flight, and then that got delayed again. So if you were traveling this week, I'm sorry. It seems like hell on earth right now for you.

I'm saying thoughts and prayers, but like in a loving, real way, an authentic way. I hope they get home all right. Speaking of thoughts and prayers, we need some for our democracy, perhaps for this country. Y'all have seen the big news from this past weekend. Donald Trump has picked a running mate and announced J.D. Vance as his VP pick at the Republican convention this week. Just days after surviving an attempt on his life.

There's a lot to unpack there, including JD's history of political hypocrisy. We'll get into the politics of it all in our first segment, but then later we'll totally flip the script, move in a different direction and take an advice letter from a listener who

Y'all know how much we love those. This one's really good. Yeah, we're really excited to get into that. And, you know, we love having a moment to respond to you guys and talk to you about the things that you're going through, because a lot of what you bring up are things that we've been going through. And some of the questions you ask bring up things that I haven't thought about in so long. And I think today's letter is definitely going to strike at some foundation stuff for me and Sam. And hopefully we can help y'all all think about this in an interesting way.

The thing I realized the more we do advice on the show is that in general, all advice is universal. It's tapping into some kind of conflict that we all experience in one way or another. So I love the way that these questions and these answers can be unifying. With all that, Zach, I have to check in with you. How are you doing? You didn't just do two live shows this week, one in Chicago.

you didn't just do a live show with me and Saeed at the Ford. You also were hosting your family the entire weekend and you threw a little after party after the show that you just put on.

What's your vibe, my friend? Well, my vibe is tired. Our little after party, I have to say the Ford did a lot of the logistics around that, but we were making guest lists. We were getting people through the door. I will say the Ford, if y'all haven't been, is one, really beautiful, but two, has amazing security because if you weren't on that list to get into that bag, they...

They were not letting you in? Listen, I was adding names last minute and effed up in how I was adding to the doc. My dear friend, John, and his wife, who I said were on the list, I didn't get them on there. And they were like, yeah, they sent us home. They sent them right home. So John, Blake, if you're listening, I've already told you, I owe you drinks and dinner. Yes. Know that I love you. And we're so sorry to other people that we had no idea. We found out later. They're on a tight ship. They're on a tight ship. And we love that for them. Which we appreciate. Yes. Yes.

Even Lacey Mosley, who was our guest. And we should note that you all will hear this episode in August. So don't have too much FOMO. You'll hear it all and it's amazing. But she even was like, everyone that works on this show today is so good and so on it. So everyone was doing their job. So we're sorry if you didn't get through. But, you know, it has been quite a week because in Chicago, I lived in Chicago for years. We had a little dinner before.

at a restaurant called Cindy's at the Chicago Athletic Association. Shout out to them for helping me and Sam have a good time there. But you and I, as we were moving through this week of doing these live events for the listeners, we were also really being thoughtful and engaging with our friends. You had friends in town. And it just shows like, I decided in that moment of having so much going on around me to instead of letting myself get stressed out by the logistics of it all and

all the labor of it all i took refuge in all the love of it all because it was a moment for me many times over the past week where i got to look around and be like wow this person loves me they love me so much that they showed up for me they love me so much they flew out for me they love me so much that they're here for me right now and what i also have to share with the listeners is that isn't just by accident before we did these live events

I, for the first time in my life in a real way, was really intentional about inviting people to things. And I think if you are perceived as a busy person, like I am, like you are, a lot of people in our lives perceive us as someone that's not accessible, that we don't have time for them, that we won't make time for them because we have so much going on, which is usually the opposite in my case. I am busy, but I have Saturdays open where I'm like, girls, what's going on? What are we doing? So this time with the show...

I sent out emails, individual emails to so many people, friends I hadn't seen in a while. It was just really intentional about who I wanted there, who I wanted to make sure felt seen and who I wanted to make time for. And it was returned back to me tenfold by people showing up for me. So I just think that people reach out, be vulnerable, tell people you want them at something, that you'd like them to be there. Don't just wait to see what they do. Really communicate what you want. And it really works out sometimes. Yeah.

Yeah. And I want to just shout you out, Zach, because the thing I've noticed with you is wherever you go, there is a Zach Booster Club, wherever we go in America, outside of America. And that just speaks to how you do such a wonderful job of building connections and keeping them. And I really admire that about you. Thank you. It's not that you never meet someone who's not going to be a friend.

once they're a friend, you keep them in the Rolodex in your life and have that connection so that when you call them years later and say, come to my show, they're going to because you've maintained that bond. So I really admire that. I really do. Thank you. It's work, but, you know, I focus on the love of it all that I get to have. You know, it's nice to look out into a crowd and be like, that's my girl.

that's my friend that's my friend and that is a good time so everyone deserves that but sam how are you doing have you rested because not only did you travel a lot with me you were camping right before this too so you have been all over the place i've been all over you know uh folks at the live show heard me say that i'm living this summer like it's the last summer because we don't know what's afoot come november and before we gotta be up protesting again in hats let me just like

Have some fun and touch grass while it's still legal. So yeah, I was camping a few weeks ago. I'm going to Montana for a friend's wedding in a few weeks. I was out in the desert for some writing stuff with a dear friend. I'm just like trying to do it while I can and being grateful for the ability to do this stuff. But today my vibe is after Chicago, after our live show here, after friends in town that were at my house and at the show this weekend as well, I am just...

trying to be really attentive to like what my body needs, like in the come down of a lot of social interaction. You'll remember Zach after the after party for a second, I was like, let's go somewhere else. And everybody was like, no, everybody was like, no. And I thought about that the next day and said, Sam, what if we paid more attention to like what your body needs after a high intensity social event?

And I think what I'm saying to myself is it is okay to acknowledge that I need maybe like a day or two of just quiet time, you know? And so honoring that, respecting that and like living that has been great. So I've been binge watching a TV show to decompress that I will tell y'all about in recommendations. But my vibe this week, long story short is listen to the body. You know, high intensity often has to be followed by low intensity. And I'm doing that this week.

I love that so much because I'm similar to you in that after a live show or an event, because especially I have friends there, I'm like, let's keep it going. Let's go. And the only reason why we didn't go out was because I had to drive my family back to their place. But it was a good call. I was like, oh, this is actually nice. I get to go home. I was in bed before midnight. I was like, this is great.

We love it. But yeah, you got to let yourself come down from it all. That doesn't have to just be a live show. It could be having a rough day at work. It could be having a bad day. You need a moment to like decompress and really think about and process what happened and just take care of yourself and take some time. So go touch grass, as Sam says, and just go be by yourself. While it's still legal. While it's still legal to touch grass, touch it.

All right, listeners, we want to thank all of you who came out to that live show and showed so much love in the Patreon, in comments on social. We felt it. It's been beautiful to witness. And of course, thank you to those who sent fan mail. And if you want to join our group chat and be a part of it, subscribe to our patroness, our Pinocchio.

Pony Girl. Pony Girl. You know, why not? Why not? Okay, that's a chapel shout out. Pink Pony Club. Yes, yes, yes. Patreon.com slash Vibe Check. Patreon.com slash Vibe Check. There's some behind the scenes stuff there. And also I occasionally share a playlist for y'all with some good jams. With that, shall we jump in? Let's do it. Let's do it.

Zach, you're in charge. You got to lead us in this conversation about JD and the shooting of it all. Congratulations.

Thank you. I've been prepping. I even went for a walk this morning to prepare for today because there's just so much noise. So I got up early and I processed some more, as I said before, about all things that are big. And now we're going to walk through this processing that we have done. So first up, as Sam has said, we're talking about just the state of American politics today because this is pretty far reaching. But there's been some huge events that have happened just in the past seven days since we last spoke to you. So let's just go through them all. Last week,

Me, Sam Saeed, we're talking about President Biden, his future, is Vice President Kamala Harris going to be running, et cetera, et cetera. We thought that was going to be the story of the week. We really felt it. I checked my text messages with many people, sources in the White House. I said, I bet there's going to be a news conference on Sunday with Joe Biden talking to America about the state of things.

No one, none of us could have predicted that that press conference or that statement would be about what happened over the weekend. And if you don't know, let's talk about it. Over the weekend, former President Trump was in Pennsylvania and he survived an assassination attempt on his life, which resulted in the death of at least another person, the gunman and other injuries on site.

Pretty horrific moment, historic moment. There hasn't been an attempt on a president's life since Ronald Reagan, who also survived. So this is a huge moment. And there's a lot of conversations going on around the Secret Service, what happened, what didn't happen. We're not going to go too far into that because there's investigations happening. But what happened after that,

I find to be even more stunning. President Trump was able to make it to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where the RNC is meeting, which is the Republican National Convention. And that's where they confirmed that he's going to be their nominee for president. And as it was all happening, he announced that Ohio Senator J.D. Vance would be his vice president candidate, who has always been in the running, but is a complicated figure that I want to spend some time unpacking with Sam about. Oh, yeah. Complicated is a nice word for it.

Yeah, complicated is a very nice word for it. And in the midst of all of that, a huge case against Donald Trump and his classified documents, which we don't have time to get into today, but maybe later, was dismissed by a judge that was appointed by Trump. So with all of that,

Biden's still juggling his nomination for the Democratic Party. There's still calls for him to step down. There's a lot happening here. Sam, how have you been thinking through all of this chaos as we've had to not only watch it happen, but have to do a live show around it happening? Yeah. You know, I was thinking just now as you were reading all these things back,

Donald Trump might be the luckiest man in American politics ever. And maybe luck is not the word I should be using, but you get what I'm saying. I mean, he has walked through two impeachments, dozens of felonies. He dodged a bullet, literally. Literally dodged a bullet. Yes. Like, what? Yeah. And then after that-

walks into a week of really great press at his GOP convention where he names J.D. Vance to be his running mate. Y'all know how I feel about Donald Trump, but I do got to say, Aaron Sorkin couldn't write this. Aaron Sorkin couldn't write this. It's wild. You know, there's so much to unpack, but I think that what I'm trying to remember in the midst of all of this is that they tried to kill Gerald Ford twice. He still lost the election. Mm-hmm.

And as crazy as all of this seems, it is still only July and there are several months until November. There will be several surprises. So I'm trying to pace myself and I'm not trying to draw any conclusions about what happens in November right now. Yeah, exactly. But what I'm drawing conclusions from is that the foundation of the American media ecosystem and what we think is truth is definitely shaken up a

You know, when the assassination attempt happened, most of Twitter or X or whatever you want to call it, and most social media platforms, even today, are still debating whether this was a fixed situation, whether it's fake, whether this is part of a larger conspiracy from different angles. And, you know, we live in an environment that Trump did seed himself where no one knows where to go for trusted facts, information, what to look forward to. And now we're seeing it all again.

explode literally in our faces right now. And we're not trying to figure out what does the future look like when we don't even know if the news is correct at times. Yeah, well, and even for those that think this is not a conspiracy, there are still big question marks over whether Trump was hit by a bullet or hit by a piece of broken teleprompter glass. Yeah, glass. I mean, questions even amongst those who think they know what's going on. There's also been quite a chilling effect recently

and the entire political media landscape in the aftermath of this shooting. We know that Biden and his team have suspended campaign events for a little bit. The right is calling for the left to stop saying that Trump is a threat to democracy because they claim that was why he got shot.

But even mainstream media has been doing some chilling as well. Morning Joe, an MSNBC stalwart political news commentary show that airs every weekday morning. It was pulled off the air for at least Monday morning this week because executives were scared of what Scarborough and his co-host Mika Brzezinski might say. Whether you love or hate the two of them,

They are political insiders who know what they're doing. Joe's a former congressman. Mika is the daughter of a diplomat and married to one and a longtime broadcaster. They're not going to be making threats and foolish statements on the air. But the fact that they were pulled shows you that this moment of political violence is not producing a more robust, responsive press. It's making the press more scared. And I'm afraid of that as we walk into November. Yeah.

That's such a good segue to this clip I want to play. Here's a clip with President Biden sitting down with NBC's Lester Holt talking about how the Democratic Party is being blamed for what happened to Trump while also not even considering their own participation in the heightening of violence in America. So let's take a listen. Well, let's talk about the conversation this has started. And it's really about language, what we say out loud and the consequences of those. You called your opponent an existential threat.

On a call a week ago, you said it's time to put Trump in the bull's eye. There's some dispute about the context, but I think you appreciate that word. I didn't say crosshairs. I was talking about focus on. Look, the truth of the matter was, what I guess I was talking about at the time was there's very little focus on Trump's agenda. Yeah, the term is bull's eye. It was a mistake to use the word. I didn't say crosshairs. I meant bull's eye. I meant focus on him, focus on what he's doing.

Focus on one of his policies. Focus on the number of lies he told in the debate. Focus. I mean, there's there's a whole range of things that look, I'm not the guy that said I want to be a dictator on day one. I'm not the guy that refused to accept the outcome of the election. You can't.

Only love your country when you win. Zach, that is wild to hear for two reasons. One, it speaks to what we talked about last week. Joe Biden is not the best communicator to be the face of his party in the run-up to November. And two...

If we want to talk about who's calling for inciting or alluding to violence, you got to look at Trump too. Trump was a man who stood by during Charlottesville, who stood by as insurrectionists stormed the Capitol, and who has already pledged in court filings, in Project 2025, and in campaign rhetoric that he will lock up and go after his political enemies should he win reelection.

For mainstream news media to give one word from Joe Biden as much or more attention than what Trump was doing that I listed is journalistic malpractice.

Yes, and I think what you're pointing to is what the next few weeks of the media ecosystem is going to look like. We're going to see many of our colleagues and friends backpedal this very, you know, clear-eyed view on Trump, which was that he does incite violence. There's very clear ways in which we can track that from the data, from sourcing all around the country in which his words do have a direct impact on people's behaviors and what he even wants to do when he maybe becomes president again if he was to win.

But now we're seeing our colleagues across media be pushed backwards and have to make it seem like it's equal parts here, that what Biden has said about Trump and his relationship to our future in a democracy is somehow comparable to Trump

wanting to be a dictator. Like these things to me are not one-to-one and we need to not treat them as such. But we've already seen the Republican Party begin to launch kind of the machinations of this framing. And that brings us to J.D. Vance, who is the Ohio Senator, who is now his running mate. Mm-hmm.

In the wake of the Trump's shooting, he put out a statement where he said the following. The central premise of the Biden campaign is that President Donald Trump is an authoritarian fascist who must be stopped at all costs. That rhetoric led directly to President Trump's attempted assassination. Can we talk about what led to Trump's attempted assassination? This young shooter had actually

access to a gun that was in the family home that has the ability to shoot and kill a number of people really rapidly. Why did this man have access to a gun in his home? Like, are protections against guns in this country? Yes. Are

culture in which people think that they can be the good guy of their own story and go out and seek justice or just seek pain because they want to do so. We're not talking about that part. And also the fact that all of the people who have killed or attempted to kill presidents or political figures in the U.S. at that level have all been white men who have not been well and how other white men are responding to the situation by trying to gaslight the rest of us, Black people, immigrants, everyone that we're the problem when there's a very

clear kind of consistent problem at stake here. Yeah. Well, and then it's like, you know, you bring up the hypocrisy of that statement from J.D. Vance. You go into J.D. Vance's history. It's full of hypocrisy. Before he was for Donald Trump, he was against him. Here's a clip that lays it out. It's from Fox. So J.D. Vance was actually confronted by Fox's Brett Baer about all the things J.D. Vance said about Donald Trump. Let me show you that.

Well, you know, Senator, this is an evolution. And I know you've been asked about this before, about past comments that you've made about Donald Trump. You've said, I've never, I'm a never Trump guy, never liked him, terrible candidate, idiot if you voted for him, might be America's Hitler, might be a cynical a-hole, cultural heroine, noxious and reprehensible. I was wrong about Donald Trump. I didn't think he was going to be a good president, Brett. He was a great president. This is, this is a thing. I spent yesterday reading up on this.

J.D. Vance, before he was pro-Trump, he called Trump America's Hitler, compared him to an opioid, said he'd rather write his dog on the ballot than vote for Trump in 2016. He said explicitly that racism and xenophobia led to Trump's rise and that he was making racial resentment worse.

He tweeted after the Access Hollywood tape was published. This is Trump saying, grab him by the pee. He tweeted, quote, fellow Christians, everyone is watching us when we apologize for this man. Lord, help us.

The same guy. And what I will say is the argument from JD Vance himself, from the right, is that he met Trump. He realized he was wrong. He saw him govern and it changed his mind. And they act like he said these things decades ago. This was literally a few years ago. I know growth happens. It can happen to any of us. But that quick of a turnaround from calling someone...

That's a miracle grow. Miracle grow. To go from America's Hitler to I want you to be my boss directly is a huge leap. And I don't trust anyone that makes that big of a turnabout ever. And if he can be this hypocritical about what he says about his running mate now, how hypocritical will this man be on actual issues?

He's flipped and flopped on abortion, says he wants states to choose. But at one point, his campaign website said ban abortion. You know, he has said that

Some GOP voters are xenophobic and that immigration is not to blame. Now he says he wants to build the wall. Everything about this man and his history shows and says that he will flip the script if it helps him. We haven't even gotten to the hillbilly elegy of it all. This was the book he wrote before the 2016 election where he basically blamed white poverty on laziness and moral failings.

This led him to be kind of called the Trump whisperer who could speak to disaffected, poor white voters. But even that, when you unpack that and see what he said before and after, is hypocritical. It's all hypocritical. And knowing all of that, especially since this is so documented, Sam, how do you think now that we have our tickets? We have Biden and Harris versus Trump and Vance. It is happening. You can push back on this if you want, but I don't think you're going to. I think Biden and Harris are locked as the ticket.

because it's pretty much locked. It's happening. So what do you, as someone who's been covering politics for a long time, think about this future battle? Is it great? Is Kamala have the perfect contender for her? Or is this going to be just worse for the Democratic Party right now? I have no faith in Joe Biden to get better at communicating between now and November.

But I have a lot of faith in Kamala Harris's ability to be an excellent prosecutor in a debate against J.D. Vance. I was listening to Ezra Klein's show a few weeks ago when they were discussing Kamala. And a reporter he had on who had profiled her said, Kamala tends to be not so great at the big, abstract, fuzzy ideals of politics.

you know, waxing poetic about democracy and our history and our future and where we go. She is very good when she's able to prosecute a case against an individual. She's a lawyer. She's trained to do that. So I think...

Kamala, seeing all the list of J.D. Vance's hypocrisy, if she can just go into a debate against him and run through that list in a really smart and thoughtful and powerful way, she'll win it. And I hope she does. I think she's set up to really do well against J.D. because his record speaks for itself, by which I mean it speaks out of both sides of its mouth.

Yeah. And they both have been senators and they both were senators for a very short amount of time. You know, Kamala wasn't in the Senate that long. He has not been in the Senate that long. They're kind of a perfect match. And I do think the future of this race is those two being in the public eye more, especially as security risks are heightened for the president themselves, the former and the current. I think they're going to send those two out and it is going to get quite interesting. All right. Well, let's leave it there for now. We'll be talking about this

a lot over the next few months. And please write into us, let us know what you're thinking. What are parts of the story that you're interested in us exploring? Because there's a lot to dive into here. There's so much. Yo, there's layers to J.D. Vance. Did you know the Yale Law School professor who convinced him to write the book, Hillbilly Elegy? It's Amy Chua, the tiger mom.

No way. The woman who wrote the Tiger Mom book is, I think, a former now Yale professor. She had J.D. Vance in class and said, you should write your story down. And that became Hillbilly Elegy. Wow. Well, you know, Glenn Close and Amy Adams are probably very angry that J.D. Vance is now the VP because they were in that movie. They were in that movie. Listen, Amy Adams still has no Oscar. Amy Adams still has no Oscar, but J.D. Vance might be vice president. Yeah.

No justice. Someone call the Academy. Give her the Oscar. That will change all of this. Well, with that, let's take a quick break while we call Amy Adams to get her Oscar, but we'll be right back. We'll be right back.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.

All right, all right, all right. We are back. It's time for our next segment. You know, I wish I could give J.D. Vance advice, but I can't. But we can give you listeners some advice. Wait, actually, hypothetical before we get to this question. What would your first piece of advice be to J.D., Zach?

Oh, God. My first piece of advice to JD Vance would be, I know you think there's that phrase, keep your friends close, but your enemies closer. That never really works out that well. Like you being close to your number one enemy for years, and now him being your boss is not going to work for you. I promise you, I've tried it before. Walk away. There you go. What about you? My piece of advice for JD would be,

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. So you look and see how Donald Trump treated his last vice president. I think he was going to let the insurrectionists kill Mike Pence. So there's that. Yeah. There you go. But good luck, girl. Good luck. Good luck, babe. Good luck, babe. All right. With that.

We have an advice letter. I'm going to just read it and then we're going to get into it. This one comes from Anonymous. It starts, I think I am dealing with survivor's guilt for the childhood poverty I managed to escape. For context, I grew up in near abject poverty with a working poor single mother of six.

For most of my life, I have either taken on an intense caregiving role in my family or a strong financial support role as my salary has increased over the years. For about a decade, I moved away from home, went to school, and lived in a city I loved and really flourished in. Over this time, I have made a modest income, achieving a level of financial independence and security that no one else in my family has experienced before.

To this day, every other person in my family continues to live under the poverty line, and many of them struggle with moderate to severe mental health challenges as a result of the traumas of poverty.

Almost a year and a half ago, I decided to return home out of intense guilt around the success I had achieved. I find that I am quite unhappy, and I am finding that the systemic nature of my family's poverty is much more overwhelming than I prepared myself for. I find myself questioning the true value of my sacrifice to be in my hometown. My support is in being present, but being present just feels like a drop in the bucket of all the support my family needs.

To make matters worse, I just really don't like my hometown. Terrible politics, very isolating, super white, and not very LGBTQ friendly, etc. I know my family is happy to see me back, and they have benefited from my support. I know there is also a part of me that is happy to provide support when I can. But if I'm being honest, this feeling pales in comparison to the part of me that longs for the life I had before I moved back.

I'm wondering if any of you have similar experiences. What have you learned through these situations and how have you made choices around what you can and can't do when others are struggling around you? Whew, that's a doozy. One, listener, thank you for sharing that letter. Two, where to begin? Zach?

Yeah, I think I want to begin with just a personal reaction because there's a lot to unpack in this. So I'm going to begin in an area that I've felt most connected to. And that's the I don't like my hometown, terrible politics, isolating, super white, not LGBT friendly. I'm from Tennessee, from a town outside of Nashville. It was very much this place. It was a place where I was the only one.

in many ways. I was the only Black kid for a while in my class. I was the only perceived gay kid for a minute. I dealt with a lot of the trauma that comes with being the other in a place that is very obsessed with not being othered. You know, something I've learned growing up in the American South, in these very white communities, is that whiteness is, you know, key here. There's no interest in diversification. There's no interest in

letting people immigrate there. Like they're not into that. So if you are the other, you have to be as quiet about that other as possible. And I found myself wanting to be loud about being black, about being queer, about being alive in this body. And it just wasn't possible in my town. So I left. And when I left,

I began to be very active in politics and activism in Chicago. I got to get deep into communities that still are a big part of my life today and inform all the work that I do. And I remember once I became aware of racism as a structural issue, as poverty as a structural issue, as all these big

that we talk about in our liberal studies classes were a reality for many of the people I grew up with and a reality for me even in Chicago. But, you know, a lot of these like root cause problems in our country, you know, I saw play out in Tennessee and I had a deep guilt for not going back.

because I'd sit in Chicago and talk about the right for marriage was a big thing when I was in college. When are we gonna get marriage equality? And then it passed federally, but I would go back and be like, Tennessee has no protections for queer people. And Tennessee today is one of the worst places to be queer, to be black, to be poor, to be educated. It has some of the worst education systems. I mean, all the American South is pretty bad. And I've had to contend with this idea of,

why didn't I go back after college and do the work there? Why didn't I go back and fight this battle? And I had to have a real check-in with myself being like, that's not what my heart wants. There are people I know that have moved back post-college and fought for these things to change. But for me, I thought my work was better done in other cities and I've lived in many other places. And I do go back and engage with the local community and support them in the ways that I can. But I think for me, it's an individual thing. It's like, if your soul calls you back,

then you should go back there. But if your soul is calling you back home to your new home on the coast or wherever you're at, you should go there. And I think this person is dealing with what they want and what they think is expected of them. And I'm leaning towards go with what you want. Yeah. I have a personal story that kind of mirrors this one. But first I want to say, beware of resentment. If the choices you've made to help the people you love

lead you to resent the people you love, then it's no longer the right choice. If you end up resenting your family for what you sacrificed for them, your sacrifice is no longer a sacrifice. It is something else that is not helping you or them. So I would say, think deeply about how you feel right now and let that begin to guide your actions.

Two, I think that there are different ways to show up for family and loved ones. And I'm going to tell a bit of my personal story to kind of show you what I'm meaning. So when I was, gosh, before I'd even turned 18, the summer after I finished high school, before I was set to go off to California for college, I had gotten a pretty decent scholarship to go to Stanford after finishing high school in San Antonio. That summer, I graduate high school in early June.

In late June, my father goes into the hospital with kidney failure. He would later die by the end of that year. And then in August, while my dad was in and out of the hospital, my mother had a massive stroke that paralyzed her. And she was paralyzed for 20 years until she died last year.

I ended up stepping up for the whole family. I took a year off from school and then ended up going to college in San Antonio to help take care of them, to close down the family businesses, to bury my father, to become my mother's primary caregiver. And I remember, you know, being proud of myself that I was able to make that sacrifice. But I reached a moment after I had finished undergrad in San Antonio and was ready for the next step where

I had gotten accepted into a few graduate schools outside of Texas. And I knew I wanted to leave. And what someone said to me and what I held on to and what actually happened was this idea that if one person keeps stepping up for an entire family, if one person keeps bearing all the burden, it doesn't just burn them out. It blocks someone else in the family from getting their blessing by being a help. Mm-hmm.

And I think that a lot of times a high achieving member of a family or the most quote unquote educated or the one with the most money thinks that it's their job to do everything. But when you start to think that you're supposed to do everything, you're hindering other folks in your family from being a help.

As soon as I left town to go to graduate school, my brother was allowed to heal a rift with my mother and care for her lovingly in the final years of her life. That probably wouldn't have happened had I stayed my ass in Texas showboating saying I'm the only one who can do this. We have to understand that existing in family and existing in community is

means knowing how to share some of the labor and share some of the work and trusting folks around you to be able to step up if you can't. What would it look and feel like for you to step back a bit and expect and talk about how other folks in your family can step up? That's for one.

And then besides that, I think you really need to set some parameters on how you want to help and what that help looks like. Quantify and write down what a healthy relationship with your family while you're in town or out of town would look like. I had to tell myself a few years ago,

How much time do I want to spend with the family when I'm in Texas? How much time do I want to spend when I'm there for the holidays? What does making loans to family look like? And what's my cap and what's my limit? Also, a big piece of advice someone gave me years ago when it comes to giving loans to family, it's not a loan, it's a gift. You can call a loan, but don't ever expect to get paid back. If you get paid back, you're lucky. Yeah.

But that's okay. So I've rambled now, but I think all of this has me saying, I think I've said before on this show, you cannot set yourself on fire to keep other people warm. If you giving of yourself is burning you out and making you angry and resentful, you're giving too much. And there's a spectrum and a range of how much we can give to our families and care for our families. It's okay to pull back a bit. And I would really think about how you are,

Taking the lead so much actually keeps other folks in your family from coming into their own. You're taking me to church because it's just bringing up a lot of things for me and my own experiences growing up with my family. You know, some people know this about me, and I don't really talk about this very publicly, but I will today. But when I was a teenager, my father was indicted for federal crimes, and he eventually ended up in prison. He's now out.

But me and my father have a very complicated relationship. And I was 15, 16 when it all began to fall apart. And, you know, I had a very charmed life in many ways. I grew up, my dad was a very successful entrepreneur. He was a huge Donald Trump fan, which is its own complicated past as a black man, but he loved Donald Trump. And my dad, we had a really big,

Big life. It was very fancy. And then suddenly overnight, my dad had no nothing. Like the government came in, took everything, had zero. We had to live in people's homes. And it was dramatic, right? Like they swept the house. Yeah, it was swept the house. It was on the news. And that's why you talk about it. You can Google it. If you know the right words, you can Google it. But yeah, I had to deal with raids and all of that horrible things.

And in this process, you know, me and my dad's relationship just fell apart. My dad was going through his own issues around, you know, addiction and all this stuff and just losing his life. And I realized in that moment as he went to prison that I couldn't be there for him going to prison. Like I couldn't, me being around

You were also a child. I was a child, but I was like, it wasn't healthy for me to be there because it wasn't my thing to fix. And, you know, if you grow up in volatile homes and homes where there is abuse or instability or poverty, you as the child think that it's only you that can save the day because you know what's going on or that it's your duty to do something here. But it's not. You're the kid. You're supposed to be taken care of. And in these moments in which, you know, you're feeling this call to take care of everything and solve problems that you're

predate your birth, that's a moment in which you should probably take care of yourself first. You should really go find safety for yourself. And what I've learned, and I can speak from experience with my father, who we now speak and we are on good terms and we have gone through a lot together, is that my departure from his life really let him realize the severity of what he did to us and to his community. And being alone and letting him be alone in his decisions is

is what saved his life too at the end of the day. So I think what you and I are both saying is like, you should have rules or things that you're comfortable doing or kind of a plan of emergency for helping people you care for, but you also have to have a plan for letting them take care of themselves. And how do you stop getting so busy with their chaos and their issues and begin to think about how to take care of yourself? Because a lot of this we do is to distract ourselves from ourselves. And you have to...

have a return to yourself. If you want to be any good for that person you love too. I'm a much better person now that I've processed and dealt with the things with my father. When we talk, it's a real talk. It's not me skirting. It's not me responding from a place of abuse. It's like me having a conversation with him and I'm so grateful. Yeah. What's that thing they say, you know, should your plane experience turbulence and the oxygen face masks fall from the ceiling, you must secure your mask first before you secure anyone else's, even a child's.

If you're not taking care of yourself, if you're not making yourself whole, you cannot help others. And so when I hear that listener say that she's starting to get burnt out or feel resentment, that's no, take care of yourself first. And like by Zach taking care of Zach, you are better prepared to be a loving son to your father, right? By me taking care of myself and leaving when I had to leave, I'm more prepared now to be

a member of my family who can help and support in some really real and big ways. Like these things are not mutually exclusive. It is possible

to give to those you love and support them while also taking care of yourself and giving yourself love. And giving yourself the love you need helps you love more deeply with the ones you're around, you know? Yes. Amen. Amen. Anywho, we have discussed this a bit. Listeners, let us know how you feel about this if you've ever experienced similar dynamics in your families and how you've overcome this. And dear anonymous listener, thank you for sharing.

And I really hope that you're able to just find some time for you and know that taking care of you is allowed. And also know that even though you're the adult and a successful adult in this situation, you are still the child. You didn't choose to come into their world. They birthed you and you are not responsible for the people that they were or are before you were born.

You're not. I needed to hear that when I was a kid. Yes, yes. All right, time for one more quick break. But when we come back, some recommendations.

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Listeners, we're back. And before we end the show, we'd each like to share something that's helping us keep our vibes right this week. And spoiler alert, Sam and I's recs, I'm realizing by looking at the sheet, are both on the same platform. So for this month, you can just subscribe to one platform and get all your vibes. And they're not sponsoring us. Zach manifested Macs. You've been talking about Macs for a while.

During our live show, you mentioned on stage that you've been using Max to watch live CNN. And my bird ass tried it yesterday. I did it. And then I was like, girl, why am I watching CNN? Yeah, it's right there. Streaming available. So if you're already paying for it, watch your news there too. Watch your Game of Thrones and watch your presidential election race. They feel the same. Dragons and both. So go ahead and subscribe. Yeah.

I love it. Well, with that, Sam, what is your pick from Max this week? Yeah. This segment brought to you by Max. No cap sponsor us. Anywho.

I have been binging this lovely show that's just three seasons called "The Other Two." It is on Max. It's created by one of the former head writers of SNL, and it's really funny and kind of sweet. So the entire premise is this family of five, mother, father, and three kids. One is a tween and two are adult children. The father passes away.

but soon after the youngest kid, the tween makes a viral video that makes him a pop star in the lane of like Justin Bieber, early Justin Bieber. So the whole show is chronicling his rise to fame and success while his adult siblings struggle in the wake. One wants to be an actor, can't figure it out. The other kind of wants to be a manager or something, can't figure it out.

On top of that, the mother ends up getting a talk show off of the son's success. The whole show is a comedic send up of the way the industry works, how it affects family and how fame is corrosive and corrupting. But unlike many other shows that deal with these topics, you watch an episode of the other two and you're laughing and smiling and you feel uplifted. Whereas like if you watch Black Mirror,

or an episode on the same themes in that show, you'd leave depressed. I love this show because it's like a biting commentary on the fame industrial complex that leaves you smiling. It is so funny. The original songs are hilarious.

I really, really like it. It moves quickly. The joke density is very high. And it's a lovely way to start watching something just to like decompress after a long day. Because even if you're halfway paying attention, you can still keep up. I like it. The other two on max. It's great. It's a wonderful show. And you do know once you get to season three, one of our friends makes a cameo. Who? A dear friend of the show actually makes a cameo.

it is drumroll cameron caskey playing yes yes you're right yes he makes guests yeah yeah people don't know cameron caskey's a dear friend of ours he's uh our child a child of vibe check with cameron is probably most well known as the one of the leaders of the march for our lives movement he sadly was you know a survivor of the parkland shooting and then from there built a coalition that to this day is one of the largest coalitions of young people that has really helped

reshape democracy and gun policy across America. So Cameron, beyond being an incredible leader of Gen Z, he is a child of Sam Sanders, Zach Seffert and Zayid Jones. And a star of the other two briefly. Yeah. And just last bit on this, and I will share in the show notes, you know, I watched a few episodes of the other two years ago because I was able to interview the two writers.

Chris Kelly and his co-writer, Sarah Schneider. So we'll post my interview with them from It's Been a Minute from many years ago. And, you know, I watched episodes for that taping and then put the show down, but I'm so glad that I picked it back up.

Yeah, it's a great show. It's a really great show. Well, in a similar vein, I have a show that is only available on Macs if you're in the US, but it's created by the CBC, which is a Canadian network platform. The CBC is like the BBC of Canada. And the show is called Sort Of. Have you seen the show before, Sam? No.

I've watched two or three episodes and loved it. Yes. Yes, it's so good. The show is created and stars Bilal Baig. And it follows the story of Sabi, who is a child of Pakistani immigrants navigating their newly out non-binary identity out.

as they're dealing with love, life, working in Toronto. And it has three seasons. This last season is its last. And if you listen to our Alok episode, Alok is a reoccurring character in season three. Ah!

In this really fantastic way, I won't spoil for people, but the show is just a really wonderful, if you love girls, you will like sort of, it's like the Pakistani Toronto girls show in my mind. It's a really wonderful thing. And each episode is like 20 minutes. So you can just like binge it really quickly and get through it. And all episodes are now available if you'd like to jump in there. Well, and this is also a chance to speak highly of the CBC.

Shows like this one, like sort of, a lot of times they get to exist because the CBC has money reserved to fund these kind of projects. So much of the American entertainment industry is built on whether or not you can get private funding for it and make it profitable.

But Canada, to which credit, to this day, does a really good job of securing government funding for the arts. We love to see it. They really do. We love Canada. As I mentioned, I have family from Canada that live in Canada. So I'm a big fan of Toronto and I will be there some of the summer. Yes. If shit turns south, you know I'm calling your mom, Zach. She will have all of us there. I'm coming up. She would love that so much. I'm bringing two dogs. Call.

Call mom. And she loves dogs. It could work. Okay, there we go. Yeah. Anyway, listeners, what are you feeling? Not feeling this week. What's your vibe? Check in with us at vibecheckatstitcher.com. And with that, that's our show. We did it.

We did it. I'm no longer saying we did it, Joe. Yeah, we have to let it go. I will only say we did it, Joe, if he does the right thing. And you know what I'm talking about, Joe Biden. Yeah, we're taking it back until you do it, Joe. Until you do it, Joe. There's no did it, Joe. There's no did it. There's no more did it. So sorry. All right, listeners, thank you for checking out this week's episode of Vibe Check.

If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platforms. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts and leave a review. And most importantly, tell a friend. Huge thank you to our producer, Shanta Holder, engineers, Rich Garcia and Brendan Burns, and Marcus Hom for our theme music and sound design. Special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie as Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda. And shout out to Ayesha Ayub who creates our social content and our intern, Ella Barnes.

Listeners, we always want to hear from you. Do not forget, you can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com whenever you want. Keep in touch with us also on Instagram on our new page at vibecheck underscore pod and our Patreon where for five bucks a month you get direct access to our group chat, patreon.com slash vibecheck. All right, y'all stay tuned for another episode next Wednesday. Till then, be good to yourselves. We'll talk to you soon. Bye. Yes. Until then, bye.

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