John Balma: Leslie vs. April (S5E7)
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The laughs, the passions, the little Sebastian's, the pets we fell into. On in a podcast, then we'll send it up into the sky. Parks and recollection, come on a podcast, spread your wings and fly. Yeah.

Hello and welcome to another episode of Parks and Recollection. Oh God, who is this character? I don't know. And where has he been forever? I might get a whole series based on that. Parks and Recollection. You might. Ha ha ha.

Tell them who you are, Jim. In my bedroom. Hi, I'm Jim O'Hare, Gary Lear, Jared, Terry, Barry from Parks and Rec Collection. And you, my friend, are... It's Greg. Hello, everybody. This is so exciting. Jim, we're back talking about another episode of our show. I always love...

Loved this one. Pitting Leslie versus April because today we're talking about Leslie versus April. That is the title of the episode. That's the title of the episode. That's the subject of the episode. And it's just, it's fun. It feels like we've been building to this kind of a thing for several seasons where they can kind of go head to head, but know that they're going to work together.

out in the end. Of course. First is perhaps season two. You could think of them going head to head and April says, great, I quit. Yeah. Right? And there's a lot of character development in this one, especially for April. Yeah. Which I love because no one plays it better than Aubrey. Yes. And later, we're going to be joined by John Balma. Bar!

Barney's most enthusiastic, uh, accountant in the whole world. Not just Pawnee. I think in the world he is the most enthusiastic. Yes. So that's going to be an exciting conversation that I can't wait to get to as well. Uh, in today's episode, Leslie versus April written by Harris Whittle. Yes. Harris. We love you. Directed by Wendy Stanzler. Uh,

Originally aired November 15th, 2012. And Jim will blurb us. After proposing a dog park project on Leslie's coveted lot 48, April and Leslie go head to head over the land's potential use. Meanwhile, Andy launches a full scale investigation after his computer was stolen. And Ben receives a slew of job offers while shopping around Tom's new business, Rent-A-Swag.

All right, great job, Jim. Let us jump right into our synopsis because we have an awesome cold open to talk about.

Still buzzing from their engagement, Leslie and Ben have returned to Washington, D.C. to pack up the rest of Ben's things. But before heading back to Pawnee for good, Ben has an engagement present for Leslie that's even better than a waffle tower from JJ's Diner, a meet and greet with her favorite vice president, her favorite person perhaps, Joe Biden. Yeah.

Okay, so now President Joe Biden, then Vice President Joe Biden is in our fucking episode. Let me ask you this. When you guys are in the writer's room, is there chatter about this? Like, are we thinking this can happen? No, we're just casual. We're like, oh, great, but what else? Of course. What do you mean there's a chatter? Do you think this is a possibility? We're saying we're going to get the Vice President of the United States in an episode of Parks and Recreation. Like, I don't know how that happens. I don't know the...

how we got him. But I do know that, you know, we've had other politicians on the show. I mean, John McCain is in the season premiere, Cory Booker, and we've had... Newt Gingrich, and we've had other...

you know, national figures. And they are national figures. We're talking vice president of the United States of America. But what I guess I'm saying is that helps to build, it builds a foundation upon which you could see this being possible because he wouldn't just have been the first president.

Right. They could say, listen, here's who's already done this.

wouldn't land on deaf ears. I guess. Again, it's not like, hey, we're doing a Washington, D.C. episode. It'd be super fun to have Joe Biden in. I mean, Leslie Knope has talked about. Many times. She loves him. Right, right. Loves him. She almost gave up her career for his phone number. Right. I mean, literally was going to give up her career. And I could say confidently that it feels like one of those Venn diagram, everything's working out and you have the show has a great story about public service.

our main character is deeply in love with that character. We've just done a whole series of episodes that take place in DC and we've had other national political figures on the show that it creates all the right alchemy to then make the big pitch. And then you get him and he delivers. Yeah. He's great in this episode. Yeah.

And I don't know, was he given lines, do you know? Was he just told to play off of Amy? Absolutely. In fact, I think he's very natural. I think he ad-libs some, because Amy would definitely do some improv. There's a moment we'll talk about in a second where she even improvs with the Secret Service, who I think are technically in the scene with us. I mean, it's a huge thing.

thing. It's a huge thing. This is a get. This is a get. This is a big get. Yeah, yeah. I mean, here's some of the things that Leslie's talked about Biden over the course of the series so far. She's confided in Anne that her ideal man had the brains of George Clooney and the body of Joe Biden. Ha ha!

She has said that Joe is her celebrity sex list. She stitched a picture of Joe Biden's face onto the Nope Wyatt Unity quilt. Because he's family to her. Absolutely. And considered dropping out of the city council race, as Jim referred, when Jennifer Barkley attempted to bribe her with Joe Biden's

personal phone number. She had to give that a second thought. Right. Yeah. And I like how Ben plays the whole thing. Very cool. Casually, you know, he's like, just like, oh yeah, I have a gift for you. And he ushers her into Biden. And then when she gets so excited and

You know, there's that moment where they're kind of hugging. It really seems like she tries to go in for a kiss. Oh, her body is not in her control anymore. Right. It's like the primal Leslie Knope has taken over, right? And it's like, I just am acting on instinct. And the way the then vice president plays it is so...

funny where he's like, I don't know what I'm supposed to, what do I do here? Because it's so uncomfortable. Because it's so awkward and funny and uncomfortable. And I played back that 10 second at least five times because she's going for a kiss with the vice president and not like a peck on the cheek kiss. She's going in like when couples go in for a kiss. In front of her fiance. In front of her fiance who's right behind her. And Secret Service and staff members. Oh my gosh. I think you're right. The Leslie that we know was not there. No. And it was like

core Leslie. Yeah. Who was like, I gotta do this. Yeah. She was out of her body. Yeah. This was something that, yeah. Yeah. And the best part, even heading there before she even sees him when, and Ben's like, well, I got you an anniversary gift. And she's just, she would have been thrilled if it was a waffle tower. That is what she thought it was going to be. So imagine the jump from a waffle tower

to Joe Biden. It's quite a jump. It's quite a jump. So this scene was filmed in July of 2012, but it airs in November after the presidential election to avoid NBC providing unbalanced candidate coverage. There are FEC and equal time rules.

So the scene had to be filmed and shot and written in a way that would have worked no matter who won the election of 2012. Right. And so I think there's no reference to all that stuff of the election. It's just he's the vice president at the time. Which was a fact.

And we pulled a quote that Mike Schur talked about, about filming in the White House. Can't even imagine. And Mike said, when the Parks crew set up in his office to shoot the scenes, Biden was tied up in a meeting with President Obama. Oh, just the president. Okay. And then Obama got on Marine One. As you do. And flew away and Biden walked across the executive building and we shot the scenes.

Just, you know. Just another day. Yeah, yeah. Just another day. Just another day. And I think it's worth saying, and I, you know, we're not a politics podcast by any stretch. No, no, no. But this was a time in the nation where politics was a different beast. Yep. And, you know, you could disagree on policy, but perhaps agree on polity and civility in certain levels. And that's why we have a show that had Joe Biden, eventually Michelle Obama, and then

John McCain. McCain, Gingrich, I mean, all sides. Okay, so, well, that's our cold open, and there's an entire story still to come. So, as I open our synopsis back up, back in Pawnee, Ben has decided to leave politics behind in favor of a more steady job.

in accounting, freeing up time to look over Tom's new business plan. Meanwhile, April presents Leslie with the proposal to create a dog park in Pawnee. And at first, Leslie is thrilled with April's leap of initiative, but her feelings of pride quickly fade once she realizes April intends to use Lot 48 for her project. And on top of all

all of this, and his computer has gone missing and he's taking it upon himself to find the culprit. Okay, so our A story, Leslie versus April. You know, there's a thing we have on the show. We don't have the flowery episode titles that other shows will have sometimes. You know, just because I love the show, I think of West Wing will have these quite poetic choices. Instead, we have episodes like

Pawnee Commons or, you know, the Pawnee Eagles and Tip-Off classic because that's what the episode's about. Yeah, like on Third Rock from the Sun, everything had Dick in the title. Right, right. You know, from Friends, The One With. Right, right. Certain shows do a very specific title.

But we also have ones that we have Leslie versus Ron, Leslie versus April, Leslie and Ron, Ron and Tammy's. Because at the end of the day, the episode does boil down to these characters going in some form of head-to-head. And so I say all that because...

Leslie and April have this strong, you know, mother-daughter kind of like a vibe bond going on in their relationship. And kind of throughout the episodes, especially beginning with the scene when Leslie says, can you say per capita again? Right? I want to take a picture of you saying per capita. She's so excited. Like she wants to take a picture of her daughter like in the cap and gown at graduation kind of a thing. And April's like, stop.

And it's funny because it reminds us this is where they are. But then very quickly it goes off the rails a bit, right? When April's dedication to this idea of making a dog park bumps in with Leslie's long-term plan of Lot 48. Which is kind of ballsy of April to do because she knows how important Lot 48 is. She does know it.

But this is one of the things I love about April. She's an animal lover, as am I. And that lot kind of would be the perfect dog park. Well, here's my question for you. You're a watcher of this episode. Yes. You're a lover of the show. Yes. Here we are. Whose side are you on?

I'm on at this point, at this point, just because Jim O'Hare is on April side. I firmly agree with you. I just am. And no offense, but Leslie, I mean, she also just met the vice president a few minutes ago in her episode. She has run for city council. She did fill in the pit. She's had all these things. She's had a lot of wins, a lot of wins. Yeah. And it's kind of like,

This is a win for you, Leslie. Yes. In a way, making it a dog park is a win for you, even though she has grand plans for this. And so it's this, you know, I think in a way that Leslie can't get out of her own way kind of an episode. Yeah. I think if I were Leslie, I'd be so blown away that April, first of all, is even speaking like this and she's got this great idea. Right. I would have been on board. But Leslie, you know, has her agenda. She couldn't see past her own goal.

goals to a really good idea, like a really good idea. Yeah, her own hubris in a way of like that this is like that this was hers. I think it's the kind of thing that I think probably in her core she says, I need to see this through. I need to see the success. But at this point, your success is also in the team you've helped build and the people you've helped bring up. And so I'm on April's side at this point, but I also don't, it doesn't,

distance me from the episode. Does that make sense? No, not at all. Right. No, no, no. And you know, you know, you're watching it, you know, ultimately these two characters love each other, which actually those words come out of April's mouth, which is shocking. We'll get to that, but yikes. And very important. Um, and I'll tease this so we can talk about it later. It doesn't come out of like a, as a, whoa, why are you talking about Oren? Um, also let's remind everyone, Oren is April's friend. He's also terrifying. And April, uh,

says that Oren has a performance art show. He's an animal living on a human farm and you go and feed him from your own hand. And Leslie says, that's horrifying. And so is Oren. You should not be friends with him. Another mother daughter type of a thing. She hates Oren. Yes. Yeah. He's the creepiest thing walking, but I love him.

I know. Yes. I love him for how creepy he is. Yes. Especially because I think that we got into this thing on the show where the more we saw him, he wouldn't enter a scene like a normal human being would. He would just be there. Just be there. Yeah. Right. In that way that like, oh, maybe you didn't realize it. Makes you think of a Seinfeld episode of a guy who sidles up and you don't know when they're there. Okay. Jim, Ben thinks he needs a more stable job accounting and he loves accounting.

accounting enough to be the king perhaps of accounting puns which were always fun to pitch on in the writer's room and he immediately jumps in and for a series of them they're going to hit this episode and i'm not even going to try to do the ben wyatt voice doing the sean connery doing james bond but when he says just call me bond municipal bond uh

Is that a home run or is it a cringe moment? To me, they're all cringe and home runs because they're so cringy. They had the effect that they were supposed to have. Okay, good. 100%. Good. And Adam nailed his delivery. Yes. You know, I can't do it either, but just call me Bond. Municipal Bond. Yes. And the way he did it, it's so funny. Yeah. I...

They're a home run and they're awful all at the same time. Yeah. And how about that great moment when he's talking to Tom and Chris Traeger and Chris says, fun fact, Ben just got an amazing accounting job. Regular fact, I have to go to a meeting. Unbelievable.

unfun fact, my uncle just had a stroke. And then he stares. And he stares and no one knows what to do. It's like, okay, well, I'm off. Gotta go. Oh my God. Unfun fact. Unfun fact. Perhaps good in life that we don't burden everyone with unfun facts, but maybe we should to, you know, that life isn't just an Instagram reel of success. But Chris is all about good news. Yeah. Ben was the bad news guy. Chris is the good news guy. Right. So he has an unfun fact. He does sadly have an unfun fact. Yeah. And it's about his uncle.

Lastly, Andy's investigation begins saying something is different about my computer and then realizing, aha, it's gone. A game is the foot. The foot. I was there for that line. Yes. So funny. Yes. They had to do it a bunch of times. Kept breaking. He's so earnest. Yes, yes. He's so earnest. A game is the foot. He thinks he's being so smart. Yes. And we got to remember, he knows he's going to try to be a policeman at this point. So now there's...

his whole world is focused on investigation and figuring things out. Right. Now he's got a case. Right. It's not just like a fun little side story or runner for him. There's merit to his life now and being good at this. He has a goal. It makes me think of when we had Chris Pratt on, um,

podcast very early on and he would talk about this kind of clown like character he'd been developing for a long time like in just in his acting and life and like this this kind of yeah doofusy big hearted clown in a way and how Andy was the perfect fit for that yeah and

you see that version of the character in this episode. He leads the story as opposed to, I think, being a comedy relief in the story. He leads the sea story. And he gets that great moment when he's with Donna talking about if she took the...

She took the computer and she says something, you know, and she's like, I was in Miami last week and I took my talents to South Beach. And just the way she said, I took my talents to South Beach. Which is a reference to The Decision, which is an ESPN hour-long special where LeBron James announced that, quote, I'm going to take my talents to South Beach and sign with the Miami Heat. Yeah. So we like to pull from real life. You know, Retta has her style, her delivery, and it just nails it every time. Mm-hmm.

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Okay, back to our synopsis. Always one to tackle a problem head on, Leslie shows April alternate sites around Pawnee. You know, not Lot 40, but alternate sites around Pawnee for her proposed dog park. But when April doesn't jump at any of them, Leslie takes a different tack, now joining April on a trip to Oren's human farm in an effort to distract April and lead her in perhaps another direction.

Yeah. She's going to show April this other places. We can still do your great idea. She's so proud of her idea, which she should, because really for April to come up with this wonderful and thought out plan is awesome. So she takes her around, but she's showing her absolute garbage dumps. Yeah. Literally garbage dumps. Yeah. Where there is what appears to be a waste of

Of different types. Yes, yes, yes. Liquid and hazardous and perhaps fecal. I don't know, but it did look like maybe. Yeah. And are you saying that perhaps Leslie should have been more clever and shown her something? I think Leslie should have been more clever. Yes. And Anne's with her. You know, Anne's here going on this little tour also. Which, first of all, I love any time there's an Anne and April in the scene because...

I love April's disdain for Ann. I just love it. Um, but it's interesting because, uh, and so necessary in this, uh, she's a, she's a mediator, Leslie's best friend. But you know, if she agrees with, with April in some way that tells you something. Yeah. She probably would seek a reason to not agree with April on something. April is pretty rotten. Yeah. Yeah. Over the years. Yes. But so one of the things Leslie says is so that she's going to, she's got to figure out a way to get April not fixated.

thinking about lot 48. So she goes, I have created a monster and now I need to destroy her. Right, right, right, right, right. That's Leslie. And she tells April she would do anything to not have her bring up the proposal, right? At the city council meeting. And I love April. I love the way Aubrey plays it. And, you know, April suggests Leslie like cut off her pinky toe. No. No, and just shave her head. No. And have sex with Jerry. No. And then, and then, and then.

April. Well, I tried to be reasonable. Reasonable. Yeah, that's I've given you everything I could give you. And, you know, we get this great scene where Leslie goes to Ron, bringing him into the episodes, a little quiet in today's app. Uh,

Uh, asking him how are the ways that he would slow her down when she was being too quote me ish. Right. Right. Uh, and he would say, give busy work. He had her put together a brochure in different kinds of Indiana topsoil mulch to do about nothing. That's a great line. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To do about nothing. Took her to JJ's for distraction waffles and you know, break the breakfast food can serve many purposes.

And then finally, Leslie has the idea to distract and slow April down by taking her to Oren's human farm. The last place Leslie would ever, ever want to be. Do you see the egg in the background where there's like a chicken? With that woman? Yeah. Yeah, that was creepy. I'm pretty sure that that's one of the eggs that we made.

For Jurassic Fork? From Jurassic Fork. Really? Repurposed. I think, you know what? Now that you're saying this, I believe that that is a fact. Yes. I believe I heard that too. Yes. And also a little behind the scenes gossip here. Okay. At the top of that scene, when they begin, we see, you know, what looks to be some extras in the scene. One of those extras was Miguel. We called him Miggy. That's right. And he's at the top of the scene. And he was one of our stand-ins, mostly for our Zs. But, you know, our stand-ins,

there were women who stood in for me sometimes. Yeah, yeah. It was a whole, it was all over. But he was one of our regulars. Oh, that's great. And I love when I see that. Yes, yes. It's a funny story, especially for people who know the crew. Exactly, because Mickey was with us for a lot of years and so it brought a big smile to my face.

So let's keep pushing forth with our episode in our synopsis, Jim. Having reviewed Tom's business plan and deciding it's solid, Ben agrees to help Tom form some connections with local businesses and Sweetums is their first stop.

The two sit down with Sweetum CEO and former beauty queen Jessica Wicks, who passes on the Rent-A-Swag partnership, explaining the need to lay low in the wake of a recent and deadly molasses mishap, but ends up offering Ben a job heading up their new nonprofit sector instead. Meanwhile, fed up with Leslie's gaslighting, April enlists the help of Councilman Jam to get her project passed.

And Andy continues his parks department interrogations with Jerry now in the hot seat. Lots going on there. Yes. Well, let's, let's, I love Jessica Wicks. Let's yeah. Start right there. I love Sweetums. Yes. There's nothing I love more than that. They have had, cause Ben explains it to us. Sweetums molasses storage vat exploded resulting in the slow moving ecological disaster that

What the hell has gone down? That would probably make national news. Yeah. But I wonder if it would be like, and meanwhile, in Pawnee, Indiana. I guess. Yeah. Well, we have in some of our research that the molasses mishap seems obvious.

perhaps almost ripped from the headlines. In Boston, Massachusetts, on January 15th, 1919, a molasses tank at 529 Commercial Street exploded under pressure. There were 150 non-fatal injuries. 21 people died. And yes, so Jim, that goes back to your point that you'd think that this would be national news. Yes!

And maybe it was. But the bottom line is Sweetums is in trouble. They have got to watch how they're being perceived now. And Ben gets a job offer. And Ben gets a job offer. And it begins this fun run of Ben getting his job offers and Tom getting more and more frustrated that no success is coming his way. Yeah. But it's just people are just like tripping over themselves to give Ben an opportunity.

Everywhere he turns, someone's offering him a job. Right. Technically, the Sweden's offer is the third job offer to come Ben's way so far. The first being the accounting one that happened off screen. The second one being Tom offering Ben to be CFO of Rent-A-Swag. Chief financial officer. I'm very, very smart about that stuff. CFO. You're like, Greg, you don't have to spell it out for me. Jim, let's talk about your scene with Pratt.

So Andy says he's been looking at Jerry's file. This is just a pure psych gag. Andy's been looking at Jerry's file all day and the file is just an empty folder. Nothing in it. Oh my God. It's so stupid. It's so funny. Yeah.

So can I tell you something? I want you to talk about it. You don't see Jerry and anybody be on like kind of the same page, really the same energy, the same like, no, I didn't do it. And how really? And you're both just kind of like, oh, okay, let's just go on with our lives. It must have been so fun. So fun. He didn't mock me. Yeah. He didn't put a pie in my face. He didn't do anything. He just agreed. Yeah. I told him I didn't do it and he agreed. Okay. All right. Well,

All right. Well, get back to work. Yeah. But no working with him is we all know is, is,

You know, it's just laughs, just a lot of laughs. And so I would love those scenes. Okay. As I reopen our synopsis fed up with Leslie's stymieing and confident of jam support, April goes in front of the city council to get her dog park approved, but much to her dismay councilman, Jeremy jam immediately flips on her revealing his real plans to sell lot 48 to punch burger for a large profit.

Meanwhile, Ben continues to try and garner support for Tom's new business on Small Business Today. But instead of granting a profile, the host of the show offers Ben a correspondent position on a new political chat show they're doing. And back at the Parks Department, Andy realizes the theft might be part of a larger string of robberies in City Hall. Yeah. April has made a terrible, terrible mistake.

Terrible choice. Terrible mistake. Terrible mistake in going to jam and believing jam. Right. Jam is a terrible person and he has one agenda and it's jam. Right. But she falls for it. Right. Everybody thinks at some point that they can control the devil. Right. But the devil gets you. Yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah. And it's so funny. She gets jammed. She got jammed. And Jan says, seeing as how the future of lot 48 is open for debate, I move we sell to Ponchburger for a nice,

And April looks so distraught, genuinely hurt that Jam lied to her. And Leslie feels bad, knew it was likely going to happen. You can realize how this is going to unite them in the end if they can just get over perhaps this emotional problem they have between the two of them. But Leslie had warned her, don't go, Jam is bad. And that's, again, another, you know, just human nature is, ha ha, I told you so. That's not Leslie's reaction. It's very much like, oh God.

Oh, gosh, he got her. I tried to warn her. I know. And I feel so bad for her because he did that. You know, like she's not. Right. She's not. I told you so. Right. She's heartbroken for her. But it also goes back to what we were talking about in the beginning, that Leslie has this deep attachment to lot 48. And here April has not has had this this realization that it's maybe not so simple and and that, you know, you can't trust the bad guy here, Jeremy Jam. Yeah.

But also, Lot 48 looks like it's about to be gone for Leslie, too. Yeah, Ponch Burger. The city's going to sell it. It's going to be a Ponch Burger. And this five-year march to a park behind Ann Perkins' house is about to become just like a...

you know, a smash burger place. Yeah. And I love, and mentioned something about, I'm paraphrasing, but something about, um, I don't want to punch, but you know, it's terrible for it's this, this, this, it's terrible, terrible, terrible. And she goes, and plus I would eat it every day if it was behind my house. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I feel that way about a lot of. Oh, I absolutely. I feel that way. I have been gone to places and I'll leave thing. Thank God. This isn't near my house. Yeah. Because I would be in this place every damn day. Right. So that's Anne's dilemma here. That's Anne's dilemma. Yes.

I want to talk about the scene at Small Business Today with Brian Raisins. First, another great character name. That is Paul Rust. The actor is Brian Raisins. Paul and our episode writer, Harris Whittles, were great friends. Oh, I didn't know that. That's great. Very, very, very good friends. We're two of three members of this like

I think the style is like weirdo band, pop weirdo band called Don't Stop or We'll Die, along with Michael Cassidy. And plus, Paul did some writing on Human Giant, the sketch comedy show that starred Paul Scheer, Rob Hubel, and Aziz Ansari. So it was very cool to see

Paul rust in this. This is making sense to me now. Cause he was so familiar to me. I'm like, how do I know this guy? Yeah. And now I know. Yeah. And we get another scene where Tom gets to be speechless after another job offer comes Ben's way. This is, you know, what I would love is for Ben to take that job to see him on live television every day doing, you know, some financial update. That would be, that would be worth everything.

Right, but we've seen him on... Oh, we've seen him. We've seen him. It's not good. He's not good. Yeah, yeah. It's not good. It's just a pool of sweat. Yeah. Speaking...

Let's forge on, Jim, as we get back into City Hall. Leslie and April are duking it out until they realize the real enemy in the Lot 48 dispute is not each other. It's Councilman Jam. And fed up with Ben's slew of job offers, Tom considers throwing in the towel on Rent-A-Swag until Ben convinces him otherwise.

Yeah. If you're going to go back and rewatch this episode, there is a moment. Jerry comes walking in like, Hey, how's it going with the dog park? But watch Rashida, AKA Ann Perkins reaction. I haven't seen her. I mean, it is hardcore. Get out of here. Like,

I almost like, was Rashida pissed at me that day? Like, I'm telling you, it came from her gut. In fact, she is the most extreme of the group. Yes. Like April just is like, Jerry, get out of here. And they're like, go and.

nobody wants you or something like that, right? Doesn't she yell that? Like, nobody wants you here. It's awful. It's really dark. You really have to go back and see it. It's a great moment. But also, like, Jerry comes in and be like, hey, how's that dog park coming? Just a casual co-worker wondering how the project is. Everyone's concerned, really wondering. Well, all right, I'm off.

And then Ron guarded the door, right? Yeah. So that doesn't happen again. So God forbid Jerry comes back in. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, your desk is right outside the window. So now we just have a scene of you just sitting there. Staring. Having been...

yelled at to remove yourself from the premises pretty much but notice when i was yelled at in typical jerry fashion okay okay well i'm gonna move on with my life because i'm i'm married to christy brinkley and i have three beautiful daughters i'll go home and have a wonderful life yeah the jokes will be on you you have no idea my future yeah hung like a horse and i got a beautiful wife let's move on people l it's yeah that's who you think it is

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This podcast is supported by FX's English Teacher, a new comedy from executive producers of What We Do in the Shadows and Baskets. English Teacher follows Evan, a teacher in Austin, Texas, who learns if it's really possible to be your full self at your job, while often finding himself at the intersection of the personal, professional, and political aspects of working at a high school. FX's English Teacher premieres September 2nd on FX. Stream on Hulu.

Okay, so we have a classic kind of season two, season three type of solution to a problem for Leslie in this episode, right? Where it's like, all right, I need a clever solution that gets me my way. And she and April and Anne have turned...

Councilman jams lawn into the dog park. It's the ultimate revenge, really. It's such a great scene. It's so cute. Especially when Leslie says, well, I have this idea, but it's a dick move. Yeah. You're like, yeah. Yeah. Right. It's perhaps like a slightly meaner version of what she would have done in the earlier seasons, which is I'm in a very particular predicament and I need a very clever solution. Yeah. And this one perhaps is perfect.

a little meaner because it really, you know, it's the invasion of private property turning Jam's front lawn, his private property, into a dog park, which is really cute also just to see all these people with their dogs having fun, their children playing. It's also great. We get to see Jam's house. He owns a bright yellow Hummer and a Corvette.

I guess orthodontia in Pawnee actually really does do very well. And you get that great detail of Jam drinking water zero, Sweden's water zero, which as we learned has actually no water in it. There's a dog humping his garden gnome. And damn it, that dog was humping that garden gnome. How'd that happen? We get that great line from Leslie when she says, you just got noped.

And Ludgated and Perkins. Duh. Duh. And, but damn, you know, haha, nice try. Didn't work.

You just cut jam. You know, his jam is saying it didn't work. Yeah. As if that's a jam. Yeah. All right, buddy. I think it did work. No secret here, but my God, Glazer is so great. So great. He's so great as jam. He's just smarmy and gross and a liar. Like he has one agenda and it's himself. Yes. And it's what makes for a great character. Yep. You're right. Well,

Well, we're going to wrap up our episode in our synopsis in the tag. Ben reports for work at Tilton and Radomski, our accounting firm. But when he sees a cookie basket of calculators and his name plaque on the desk, he quits immediately, immediately, immediately with very little remorse. Just, Oh no, this isn't happening. Yeah. Yeah. No, you know, um,

Ben is in the moment. He's been building up this thing. He's like, I think I know what I want. I want this thing. I want reality. I want a real job. I want normality to it and shows up. And sometimes you don't know what you want until you're in that moment of living. When you know what you don't want. Right. Yeah. And you feel it in your gut as you're actually living that reality. And that was Ben here.

Like when we started this podcast and I realized Greg was my partner. I was like, oh, God, no. But then I thought, oh, I signed a contract. So then I was kind of stuck. You know what I'm saying? It's kind of like that. It's kind of like that. I don't understand what you're saying, but as Bert Hathaway would say, it has the cadence of a joke. Speaking of our extended family, John Balma is so hilarious in this scene. Brilliant. His character Barney, so excited to have been back,

doesn't hold it against Ben for quitting it again. And as we talked about, we actually got a chance to sit down with John to talk about this scene, as well as some of his other appearances throughout the series. And here is what he said. Jim, this is great because we have John Balma here with us today. Barney Varmn. Hello. How would you pronounce your character's last name? Varmn. Varmn. Varmn.

It's V-A-R-M-N. I try to pronounce the N, but it's very difficult. It is. There was a time when Barney Varm had several more N's in his name. Oh, really? Yeah, but I think it was deemed too crazy. We know you as the accountant who will first appear in Leslie's house. You'll be in nine episodes of Parks and Recreation. And

And now you're in this episode of Parks and Recollection. Tell us a little bit about your time on the show and that from going from that first episode to the Barney we know and love. It was the happiest set I'd ever been on. The crew just seemed to be having so much fun. And I love that. You know, it's kind of fun when you go in and there's an infectious spirit around. I don't remember the names of the sound guys, but those guys were always having a good

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mitch would do these, um, boom taps where he would, he mostly did it to the extras, but he would tap their shoulder with the boom. Now the boom is the, is the microphone that's on the big, big, big, long stick. Right. So he tapped their shoulder, then he'd fling it up in the air and the people would be looking around because someone just tapped their shoulder, but it makes no sense. Like where did this come from? Yeah. But let me tell you, I, I love that you say that about the set because I

I have said that to anyone who will listen. I'm 1,000 years old. I've been on hundreds of shows, it feels like, over the years, and nothing was ever like Parks. Parks was loose and fun. I mean, everyone was doing their job, but it just...

I don't know. It just I was happy to be there. Your first episode, Leslie's House. So you play the an accountant who's teaching a class. You have a very perhaps dry presentation about QuickBooks Pro. Yes. Yes. And that was the audition to be as deadpan as possible. Yes. That's what they were looking for.

But by the time we get to know you a few episodes later, there's this other joy and color that comes out. And it especially comes out as you get to know Adam Scott's character, Ben Wyatt. Right. And...

Ben, in this episode, doing his accounting puns, there's a scene at the end of it where he comes in to start his job and then winds up leaving it, realizing he needs other things in his life. No offense to accountants and accounting. But your joy...

and the way you play the joy of being with him and hearing these puns and this this like joyful exasperation so to speak you were my favorite recurring character wow that's a big statement for sure and wow and you know yes that's amazing we love awesome we love our we love our jean ralphios and everything but oh my gosh it cracks me

me up i love it i was so excited i am still so excited to get to talk to you and that's why i want to i want to get to know about how you felt as this character evolved and became perhaps goofier and sillier i think about the the single take you shot with ben schwartz when he starts the job yes

And so as you got to keep coming back and your character kept growing in this way, how would you find these extra little kernels and corners of Barney? Well, I'll tell you, I was very concerned that

I was not the same character I started out because they gave me so much more to do. And sort of Barney's childlike enthusiasm started bubbling up. So I was a little concerned about that. I also, I could never, ever, there was so much time between appearances. I could never remember what my haircut was. If you, if you track it, it really changed. Yeah.

And the glasses change. Um, Oh, it's so good. It's so great. I'm trying to remember the first time they really let me out of the box. Uh,

It might have been the third episode when I got my first office. I think that's when you start shouting for Ted off screen. Yeah. He's got to hear what Ben just said. Yeah. I think when we start to, that once you have a character start to play off another person that we don't just shouting for Ted. Okay. So, so Bernie and Ted have a whole relationship and that's interesting. Right. Separate from Bernie with our main characters. Right.

And Barney is also the nicest man that has ever walked the planet. He is such, because Ben really puts you through it. I mean, he gets you up and then he puts you down and he builds you up many times.

And yet you're still so lovely about it. Yeah, but he kept coming back. It's in the script. It was in the script. At some point, I decided Barney had a crush on Adam. Oh, that's great. And I remember a discussion with costuming. We couldn't remember if I had ever worn a wedding ring.

And I said, let's not. Because if we do, we may have an issue with what's going on between Barney and Adam. I couldn't decide if maybe he was a little gay or maybe he wasn't.

wasn't and he was just so excited by numbers that yes yeah yeah i kind of like that there might have been a crush yeah yeah i mean look at it you know if he is gay ben walks in he's a nice looking man he's nailing it all with the little yeah that would be an easy crush they have something great in common yes right yes yes i kind of love our love of accounting

Can you tell us a bit about beyond you were told to be a little more deadpan, what the audition process was like for you? Did you know the show? Were you aware of the show? Yeah. I knew the show. I also knew the casting director. We were in an acting class together at one point. With Dorian Frankel? Yes. She called me in and the moment I saw the sides, I was like, "Oh, deadpan. That's why I'm being called in." I had a reputation for that.

I never expected it to be a recurring part. You know, it was the audition was one episode. So I was completely surprised almost every time they called me back until probably Cones of Dunshire. And then I knew I was pretty solid and nice. Yeah, good comeback.

But you had to have realized that your character was becoming beloved. Yeah, I did. Did you feel that like out in the world? Oh, very much so. There came a point when I couldn't go to the store without doing selfies. And you start to notice people staring at you and looking embarrassed and all that. That was very funny.

You know, I also love how Ben gets to do these accounting puns, right? And he gets to do these little jokes that tickle him. And I was pulling up some of the favorites and, you know, he says, well, formulas are my formula. Formula. Right? That's the reaction from a normal human being. And you think, that's not a great

No, it's not. But Javarni is gold. Javarni, it's the stand-up set. What was the one, you guys, during the telethon episode? Oh, God. And that's a quick look, a quick look.

Bro. Yes. That's a great moment. Or when it comes to preparing taxes, the only thing that's taxing is deciding which software to buy. Oh. Yes. Yes. Oh, each one cringier than the other. Yes. Exactly. But of course, the king of all of them is calculator. Calculator. When Ben is saying goodbye. Yes. People still come up to me and say that on the street. Yeah.

Well, John, thank you so much for being here with us. We got Barney hanging out with us. Thank you. It's a joy to have you with us today. Thank you so much, my God. Thank you, John. It was great. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Okay, that was awesome. John is such a great guy. It's fun to catch up with him, see what's happening in life. His character, as you have said yourself, is one of the greatest. My favorite. Your favorite. That's a huge statement. My favorite recurring character, absolutely. God, Barney Varm and John Ballman, correct me. Yeah, and him saying, quick prick.

pro yes well kill me forever yes yeah anyway we love talking to him um well jim uh we've come to the end of our episode but not the end of our podcast episode because we got to talk about the crap we didn't get to because there's some crap we didn't get to talk to us talk to us i will tell you this so one of the things that was funny when andy is talking to jerry about the loss of the computer he's saying you have to tell me or it's considered entrapment

That makes absolutely no sense. But in his mind, that is absolutely what this is. Yeah, I know a detective term and that's it. Yeah. And then I also, when April is giving her presentation to the city council and Leslie-

As if no one would see her do this, go boo, boo, boo. And Leslie's like, well, I can see a lot of people are against it. We should stop it. And April goes, really? I just heard one hag booing. Love that. Love that. Called her a hag. And then during their fight in the conference room, when Ann is mediating, April is just randomly saying, Leslie's a mouse eater.

What the hell? And she goes, yes, you are. Yes. And I don't eat mice. Hysterical. That just, that just killed me when they find their resolution in the conference room. And April says to Leslie, I love you too. And I don't want to do this in front of her meaning and, but the way she says, I love you too, because that's so, you know, that those words do not fall out of her mouth. Yeah. I love that. That, that, that was like, that was a happy, happy moment in my heart.

And that's some of the crap we didn't get to. All right. Well, let's flush that segment down with our final thoughts on the episode. I mean, I'll say for me, I think, you know, like I said, this episode ultimately boils down to Leslie versus April. And, you know, this is an episode that's about personal growth. When you think about it, you have April taking initiative with her project as she's doing more than just assisting in the office or participating.

perhaps being told what to do. She's deciding, I want to do something. You have Tom continuing to take his newest venture seriously. Andy is realizing that being police officer isn't going to be like starring in just an action movie. It's a lot of paperwork. It's a real, there's a real job happening here. And Ben takes a brave leap away from the boring, but safe job. He feels like he should be taking.

So, you know, while maybe it feels like a bunch of comedy games, ultimately everyone's going through that realization of what personal growth really means. Yeah, and we should say, of all the jobs that Ben has offered, he takes the one with Tom. Yeah. I mean, that's a little gutsy, too. Even though Tom is obviously changing a little, it's still...

You're saying my career now is going to be with Tom Hammer. Right. It's helpful for us as we about to really start a rent-a-swag arc and storyline for Tom to get one of our other main characters in there so that when you think of stories, the two of them are already naturally paired. And we know how well these characters do together. I still think of one of my favorite bloopers from the show is with them and John Calamezzo having a meal together. Oh, yeah.

The two of them, the actors clearly have great chemistry and enjoy doing things together. The characters are funny and no other character makes fun of Ben as much as Tom. Yeah. And in Joan's behalf, Joan Calamazzo, sometimes you do have to powder your vagina. Well, she said, I need to powder my nose amongst other things. And they assume. Assumed it was. Yes. And boy, if that doesn't cap off an episode, I don't know what does. Well, I'll tell you, it gives parties and jobs. Yeah.

my friends, we talked about it. There's a runner and we've called it out, but Ben gets five job offers. Sweden's nonprofit wing correspondent for a new political chat show management position at Urban Outfitters, CFO of Rent-A-Swag. And of course, Ben starts and leaves the accounting job at Tilton and Radomski. We have a present, Ben's engagement present to Leslie of the Biden meet and greet, you know, Joe Biden talking about here.

Chris offers Andy a job as a part-time security guard for City Hall. And Ben gets that calculator cookie gift basket when he starts the job. And I guess maybe his food for himself on the way home after he quits that job. That's a gift. Yeah, he was there for, what, two and a half minutes. So I would think at least a gift basket. Yeah. Yep.

Well, Jim, we've done it. We've come to the end of another episode, a great episode, Leslie versus April. And we have so many more to do. It's sad that we have to say goodbye, but we'll be back. So thank you all for listening. Text this episode to your group chat. Give us five-star reviews wherever you happen to be listening to us. And from all of us here at Parks and Recollection, goodbye from Pawnee. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

Parks and Recollection is produced by me, Lisa Berm, and engineered by Joanna Samuel. The podcast is executive produced by Jeff Ross, Adam Sachs, Colin Anderson, and Nick Liao. Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brit Kahn are our talent bookers, along with assistance from Maddie Ogden. Our theme song is by Mouse Rats.

a.k.a. Mark Rivers, with additional tracks composed by John Danik. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on Parks and Recollection. This has been a Team Coco production. Yep, that's who you think it is. The Grimmest Mug. The Hello Kitty Keychain. Barbie herself.

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