Costume Designer Kirston Mann: Telethon (S2E22)
51:28 Share

High Five Casino lets you play your favorite slot-and-live table games like Blackjack with a chance to redeem for real cash prizes.

That's right. High Five Casino has a giant selection of over 1,200 games, including hundreds of exclusive games only found on High Five Casino. It's always free to play and free coins are given out every four hours. Ready to have your own high five moment? Visit highfivecasino.com. That's high, the number five, casino.com. No purchase necessary. Void or prohibited by law. Must be 21 years or older. Terms and conditions apply.

Kevin Hart here. With Chase Freedom Unlimited, you can cash back 3% of drugstores, 3% on dining, including takeout, 5% on travel purchased through Chase,

and 1.5% on everything else. So the card you use for travel with friends works at drugstores for your contact lens. It's good for nights out, ordering in, pizza on the couch, or something more high-end. How do you cash back? Learn more at ChaseFreedom.com. Chase, make more of what's yours. Restrictions and limitations apply. Offer subject to change. Cards are issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC. The laughs, the passions, the lips of bastions, the pits we fell into, and we're putting

Come on, let a podcast. Then we'll send it up into the sky. Parks and recollection. Come on, let a podcast. Spread your wings and fly. Fly.

Welcome, everybody, to Parks and Recollection. Hi, guys. Hi, Kirsten. How are you? Hi. Kirsten, when I see you, I get really, like, I start thinking, am I wearing the right clothes? Do I, are these appropriate clothes for me? Do I look like my character? Look, oh, no way! Where did you get that T-shirt? Wow. Oh, my God, that's amazing. You're wearing a park, like a Motley Crue font T-shirt.

parks crew you're in it yes all the whole cast is here oh my gosh what season is it so so yeah kirsten by the way our our amazing costume designer for for parks and recreation and many many many other illustrious shows and she's wearing a baseball jersey type t-shirt that says parks crew crew spelled c-r-u-e with an umlaut over the u like motley crew and it's got uh cartoons of all the characters

What season was that from? That was the final season. Oh, wow. And then the whole crew, like a concert shirt, everybody's name is on the back of the shirt. You guys didn't get one?

I don't know if I got one. I didn't get one. I'm very sad now. Rob is on the shirt. He didn't get one. He's in it. I think you chipped in for the shirt, Rob. I think it was a gift. Maybe I, I don't know. Maybe I got one. Maybe I lost it. That's sad, but happy to have Kirsten on the show. Very, very, very exciting. Very exciting. Thank you so much. So good to see both of you. I know it's been too long and this is, and this is a good episode that we're talking about today. This is, uh,

Telethon, one of my favorites. Shall we get into some more notes? Let's do some for Telethon. Here we go. First one. Believe it or not, this was Amy Poehler's first script for the entire series. Poehler's

Poller said the scenes in which Leslie uses sugar rushes to re-energize herself at night only to crash later were very reminiscent of some of her own all-night experiences working on Saturday Night Live. Another quick one, Amy was nominated for an Emmy Award for Lead Actress of her overall work in the second season, and Telethon was the episode she submitted for consideration.

It's got a lot. Yes. Here comes the summary, the synopsis. Parks and Recollection. Alan Yang, Rob Lowe, here we are. Episode 22 of Season 2. The writing debut of one Amy Poehler, star of the show, plays Leslie Knope.

And it was directed by Troy Miller, very frequent director. And of course, our guest for this episode is Kirsten Mann, our costume designer. Here comes the synopsis. My synopsisters and brothers, Leslie has volunteered to work on the 24-hour Pawnee Cares Diabetes Telethon and orders everyone in the office to work the phones for multiple shifts.

Tom is assigned to pick up retired basketball player Detlef Schrimpf, former Indiana Pacer, from the airport, the special guest for the telethon. Leslie's excited because she's been allowed to program her own four-hour block. It runs from 2 a.m. to 6 a.m., and she's already been up for 24 hours creating t-shirts for her staff and suggests that Leslie get some sleep, but she plans on consuming Sweetums bars to stay awake for another 24 hours.

Also, at lunch, Mark tells Leslie that he's going to propose to Anne. Intrigue builds. As the telethon begins, Leslie's already falling asleep. With time to kill, Tom brings Detlef to the snake hole lounge, delaying Leslie's big headliner. Andy's band, and my band, Mouse Rat, plays, and Ron volunteers to demonstrate how to cane a chair. But his presentation is so boring that the telethon actually starts to lose money. Classic bit.

Desperate for something to put on, Leslie tells Mark that he should propose to Anne in front of the camera, and he agrees. Not long afterwards, however, Anne confides in Leslie that she wants to break up with Mark.

We're doing a lot of butt stuff in the show. Yes.

Amy loves a butt jam. More butt stuff. Detlef, Shrampton, Tom finally arrive at the end of Leslie's programming block. Detlef presents a check for $5,000, allowing the telethon to bypass its $20,000 goal. Leslie goes to Ann's house so they can talk about Mark. She then promptly falls asleep on Ann's couch for 22 hours straight. And

End of episode. It's got puppies. It's got Dettla Shrimp. It's got Clipboard Mouth. One of my favorite things. Clipboard Mouth. Classic. Classic. Yeah, I mean, who among us does not love Clipboard Mouth? Asuja Joe and Skinny Chris Pratt. There's a huge range of Pratts. And there's a lot of mouse rat in this episode because they're just in the background of like every shot. It's just like, oh, it's just like they're in the background playing. So a lot of mouse rat. We have the perfect person to ask this question. Was there ever a thought that mouse rat

should dress more like the E Street band or, or like David Bowie's band, like, or, or should it be more grunge Kurt Cobain? Like what was the, what was the sort of template? I think we were just going a little more Midwestern band, you know, like replacements, but just a few years later. And I do love watching Alan dance.

in the background. Kirsten, at a certain point, Kirsten just let me wear my own clothes. Yes, exactly. She was just like, just wear your own clothes. That's when the bass player character in Mouse Rat just started wearing ties and shit. It's like, all right, I don't know what he's doing, but that's my own wardrobe. But yeah, always very fun. Andy's wardrobe is always fun too. It's just that very grungy, sort of trapped in the 90s look for him. Yes. There was never a thought to have Andy in the Axl Rose bicycle pants outfit.

And big leather coat. No, we never...

I don't think Chris would have gone there. Not his vibe. Not his vibe. Well, Kirsten, since we have you here, we might as well start by asking you, how did you get into this amazing line of work that's so fun and you're so well-suited for? And then how did you start working on parks? I went to Parsons for set design, and then I started working in the art department, and I was looking at the costume department thinking...

What are they doing? I jumped ship and the rest is history. I started working in costumes and how I came upon Parks is I was working on a show called United States of Tara. And one of the directors there was directing also on Parks and moved me over to Parks and Rec, which was like the best thing that ever happened to me because my whole future careers, including working with Alan today is parks.

Parks and Rec. You know, everybody, there's always one degree from Parks and Rec. Yeah. Who is the director who brought you over? Craig Zisk. Oh, yeah. I love Craig. He's my neighbor, actually. He lives near me. He's one of the nicest guys in the world. He's directed a bunch of Parkses. It's weird to say Parkses, but I'm going to keep saying it.

How else is there? And yeah, and Kirsten has done so many shows. As I mentioned, we're currently working on a show with Maya Rudolph together. She also did some Brooklyn Nine-Nine, some Good Place, some Forever. Yeah, so many episodes, so many shows. How fun. So do you love, I mean, I can answer for me, but do you enjoy doing these comedies? Because it's just so much fun, right? It's the best. I always say I have the best job in the whole world.

So all the listeners out there, I have the best job in the whole world. So when you came on to Parks, at what point in the show's run did you, were you there from the very, very beginning? Or did you come on a few episodes in? I came on a few episodes in. So listen, maybe we've gotten to the bottom of one of the great mysteries. When the show became great. Yeah, exactly. We went from Ron Swanson wearing suits to Ron...

to Ron wearing wool sweaters. Maybe this was your first bit of input. Yeah. And the little, the three button polos. Yes. That, that is a mystery. It's one of our favorite things in this first few episodes talking about Ron wearing suits and it's like, well, he looks so strange. And then Kirsten saved the day. But I would, I will say that I do feel like I slowly tried to make it my own, you know? I,

I feel you in the show. I kind of get your aesthetic and your style, and it works really well for this tone of show. And quite frankly, we're working on a show now that's just kind of similar, but it's generally optimistic. It's very colorful. It's just every character...

You can, you know, we were going over characters for this new show. It's like every character you can tell immediately. If I show you a set of clothes, if I show you an outfit, you know exactly which character it is. That sounds trivial, but ultimately it is really important and it visually affects so much about how you take in a show. Did you have favorite characters on Parks and Rec that you love to dress? And, you know, tell me about anything interesting or what compelled you about each character maybe. Yeah.

Well, I could circle into Rob, who never did an episode without me. That's right. Yeah. And the thing I love about this episode is that this episode leads to your first episode. That's right. That's right. We're coming up quick. And so we get to see Anne saying goodbye to Mark, and that means that...

Chris Traeger's on his way in. So it's like this perfect bridge. And so what I most remember about this week of shooting, Rob is going to visit you on your, you were at brothers and sisters. Yep. And we did our fitting and I had so much fun because you, Chris Traeger was so up my alley, the preppiness and the like quirky preppy that I love. And I,

So this week was the week that we shot this episode was like a big week in lots of ways because you were coming on and Scott was coming on. And one of my favorite things you said to me, Rob, was you were like, put me in blue and my eyes will go pow. Yeah.

The man knows what he looks good in. And I just like, I always think of you when I think about glue. Pow. Pow. That's right. You know, the other thing is, is Rashida Jones is kind of a little, not kind of, is a sort of little fashion, Easter fashion icon.

Of of her her generation, you know, and she's a very specific. She's got a commercial that's on right now, and she's in five different scenes within the commercial. And I get. Yep, that's Rashida outfit. Yep, that's where she like. Yep. I mean, she has a very specific taste. And I wondered if if you had any thoughts on how that informed and Perkins.

Ann Perkins. Ann Perkins was probably quietly the best dressed woman in Pawnee. But very quietly because we couldn't go. I mean, Rashida has such great style and she's brave with style and she's so cool. So we had to pull back her cool factor. But we definitely were able to like.

Anne had a little style if you're really looking. But she never had as much style as Rashida, not in the biggest stretch of your imagination. Right. You got to hold her back. You got to hold her back. That's for future shows. That's for when she's in a Sofia Coppola movie, she can dress fancier. Yeah.

That's down the road. It's very fun. Also, I mean, I went shopping with Rashida in New York and we had the best time and she is so willing to like take it to the edge and she's just the best. Yeah. She always, always counted her have cool glasses, always like cool glasses and like cool accessories. Cool everything. I just want to follow Rashida around. Again, her, her, her dad was Quincy Jones. She's got cool, cool DNA. Pretty cool. Yes, she does. Yes, she does. Yeah.

But so this episode was like it was such a bridge episode also to like a whole other part of Parks and Rec. Yeah. And it feels that way. You can feel it. It's the calm before the storm. Exactly. Exactly.

So, I mean, I think you're kissing Anne in the next episode. So she, she moved on. Spoiler alert. No, I'm kidding. No, it's totally fine. Yeah. Next week, next week is the master plan. It's the first appearance of Chris Drager and Ben Wyatt. So very, very, very exciting. Was there a general vibe you had when, when you were deciding to dress these Pawnee characters and people in the office and people in the town? Like what, what, what were you kind of going for? Did you research in terms of how people in the Midwest dressed or what was your vibe? Yeah.

For sure. It was, I tried to make it as real. And, and Mike Schur is so good at that. Who's the creator of the show. He, he really wants to keep it based in reality. And so I feel like we really, we tried for that with a little, with a little twist. And you get a lot of opportunities in this episode, Telephone, because there's so many people in it. I mean, the entire cast is in it, but then you're meeting all kinds of people on the actual show.

Right. Who's Alan? Who's the name of the singer who comes in and sings?

The Eurythmics song, it's so amazing. Denise Yermley. Denise Yermley. I don't know why I remember that, but I think she appears in multiple episodes. I think that was like a Katie Dippold obsession where she would keep pitching things that Denise Yermley could sing. And think about all of the characters that show up besides our regular six to eight characters, right? That's amazing. I want to see more of that. There's like a one shot of...

It looks like a singing group, like the Von Trapp family kind of in terrible like barbershop quartet type outfits. But you never get to, I want to know more about those people. It's such a rich world. And the telethon is the perfect way to shine a spotlight on it.

It is, and it's just such a good construct for an episode because you just get a litany. You just get sort of a parade of these guest characters. And I think at first in the writing staff, we were a little bit hesitant to spend too much time with these outside characters because you want to build your guys up.

But now that you're 20-some-odd episodes into the series, you kind of know what your characters are like. And that's when you get to have fun with these kind of one-off characters and bring them in for one line, two lines, a couple jokes. And it just makes the world so rich. And people love those side characters. And they come in and just get those jokes off. And Jerry gets a couple great moments, too. He does the magic trick with the egg, and then he plays the Brahms waltz, which is always really funny. Oh, I wanted to also mention...

We struggled in the writer's room for a while with, like, is Jerry good at stuff and they still hate him? Or is he just bad at everything? And we kind of did both. We never really settled on it. Like, in the camel episode where they make a mural, he makes an amazing mural. And in this one, he's like a genius level piano player.

And then later we kind of went away from that. But in a couple episodes, he is very talented and they still hate him, which is kind of a different game. But it's still funny. I don't know. Leslie's reaction shot where she's listening to him play the Brahms Waltz is super funny. She's like, all right, enough of that noise. Like, they hate it. And it's really beautiful. Yeah, it is funny. I mean, it's hard to go wrong with Jerry. It's hard to go wrong. Yeah. Yes.

We talked about Martin Housley, Denise Yermley, Barney Varm, the accountant guy, Joe Sewage, Mouse Rats in there, Pert Happley's in there. Pert does the worm. Legendary gif. By the way, Pert doing the worm in, he looks like

I'm not sure what he's in. It's a very bold choice. He's got very primary color kind of top going on there. Yes, he was having a bit of fun that day. You know, he's our newscaster for people that don't know. And he was just in his wacky mood. And obviously he was heading towards doing the warm stuff.

I think he's wearing a purple shirt with cut off sleeves and then like Zubaz pants or something, right? Like I was, I remember first seeing that. Yeah. I don't think I was on set for that shot. So when I saw it in the cut, I was like, what? I honestly, the Ron Swanson line is what the fuck are you doing? And I was like, what the fuck are you wearing? It's very funny. It's truly, truly special. I,

I also like looking through all these episodes at little things that make me laugh. We have maybe the best green screen that Parks and Rec ever did in this episode. It is a, if you notice it,

It's early sunrise. Detlef Schrempf is driving Tom to the telephone. I remember this. Yes. Yes. It literally looks like a Terrence Malick movie. Like, usually we just, we didn't care about any of it. We literally just didn't. We'd be like, green screen looks shitty. They'd throw a bunch of GoPros in the thing. I was like, what the hell ever? Nobody cared.

But this, man, I mean, it really looks like the dawn is breaking over Pawnee. I was like blown away. Somebody should have gotten an Emmy. It's an outtake from Tree of Life. Yeah. Yes. It's very Tree of Life. Badlands vibes. Yes. Yes.

Kirsten, do you remember anything from this episode that like, did you have to dress Detlef Schrempf? Like he's six foot 10 or something like 10. Yes, I think we did. I mean, I think he wore his own pants and we threw a shirt on him, but he was, he was dressed very casually as you know, and,

And that was very funny because Aziz was so dressed up with his three-piece suit that ends up just being his vest and his hat and his whole thing. What kind of stuff did you buy for Aziz? He has a joke about shopping at Brooks Brothers Boys in this episode. What kind of stuff did you buy for Aziz for this episode and in general? Well, it's so funny. I probably, and I'm trying to remember, but I probably did try to head to Brooks Brothers. You know, I probably tried to like...

like make it accurate. But Aziz was very fun to dress. And I, and I feel like that's thanks to you, Alan, because you always added a little, like, I mean, one of one episode where he was constantly changing his clothes and you and I actually went through the rack and kind of were like, yes and no. Like what would, what would Tom Haverford do? And throughout the seasons, I feel like

Tom really came to such a great place for me as a costume designer. He had such an art in fashion. It probably also lined up with Aziz making more and more money and figuring out which brands he liked and stuff. Oh, completely. He's like, I want to wear this kind of jacket or whatever. Yeah, exactly. That's so funny because that does happen, but...

But we got to have so much fun with it in addition because he wasn't afraid to be too big. Yeah. Yeah. I remember you and I always used to get together and laugh about how far can we go with putting me in the most ridiculous shirts that maybe a 12-year-old would wear. Yes. Yes. Like big stripes. Oh, so cute. Oh, yeah. I loved it. In our poster for our Modest Little Podcast.

I'm wearing a striped shirt that I was channeling you. You were. Because I know you and I would pick that off the rack because it's ridiculous. Yeah. It's like, not a shirt, a man of my age. Yeah.

should ever be seen in. Oh, I loved it. But Chris would wear it and he would pull it off. He totally pulled it off for sure. What were the ideas for Leslie and Ron respectively? Like I know you want to be relatively, you know, real to what a government sort of employee would wear, but you also want them to look good. So what was the sort of balance there?

That's, uh, we kept Amy pretty, you know, she wanted to stay basic, but we made her when she, on her off days, I feel like we did her very cute sweaters that could be sort of seen as Midwestern. And, um, the interesting thing, I think even in this episode, Amy was pregnant with Abel. And so we were always kind of working out how to make her look and not look pregnant. And, um,

The one thing I'll say about Amy is she's the least vain person I've ever worked with. And my joke would be she'd come. I said a few things in her trailer and then she'd walk out and she'd go, this looks good. Right. And it would it would be like, oh, my God, you look so brave. You know, she just doesn't care. I'm done. I put this first thing on and I'm like, no, it doesn't work.

I like that. That's very comedy friendly. You know, that's like, you know, a lower, a lower maintenance or like, let's just go do the jokes and make people laugh. Yeah. People, people who, it's funny, my wife, Cheryl, I love her to death, obviously married a long, long, long time.

But sometimes when we when I do comedy, it's she sometimes isn't a fan sometimes because I don't care about how I look. And the more ridiculous I look, the better I like it, because you can't have vanity and do comedy. You can't you can't have any of it. So it doesn't surprise me at all that that Amy is like that. You just I mean, if you if you're not if you don't want to look.

you know, as ridiculous as you possibly can, you're kind of done before you start. So it doesn't surprise me that Amy's like, I don't care how I look. Yeah, and I've done a lot of things before

Amy and I have continued to work together a lot. I did Wine Country and Moxie and making it, baking it. But, you know, that carries on. Even when you're doing a big show like Telethon where there's a lot of things happening, all my goal is to make sure that every single person is teased apart.

from our main cast and from each other. And, and so I think that's the goal. And that's what I try even to keep them all Midwesterners, but all like rays of a sun. I like that. The other thing that, um,

My pet peeve on bad wardrobe on TV, it's usually on cheap TV, but you'll see it all the time if you pay attention, is everybody's in clothes that are absolutely brand new. Like brand, brand, brand, brand new. Like if you watch the Disney Channel, every single person in every single show, it's like you can still see the folds. Yeah. The hanger marks. Thank you for saying that. That is a really good... When I first started Parks, I had...

Every single thing that was in existence washed with a little, I mean, we call it teching, but it's basically like tea dyeing. Take everything down to a worn level. I love learning the jargon. Chris Traeger got to be a little crisp. Yes. I got a little crisp. You got to be a little crisp, and everybody else was a little bit...

A crew. Chris is up at 5 a.m. every morning ironing his workout clothes. Exactly. The other thing is there's white shirts. I'm a big white shirt guy. And how many have you ever been a part of the discussions with the directors of photography who go crazy with. Yes. With white shirts because they want they want you to dye it with tea takes the curse off the whiteness because DP is traditional like it on the West Wing. My character was known for his white shirts.

and I fought them on that and won. And I have these amazingly crisp white shirts on West Wing, and it's something I've sort of kept wherever. So whenever I come on a show, I'm like, no, no, I will be. Wearing white, thank you. No T for me. Yes, exactly. So that is something we're very, and it depends which DP you're working with, and DP is Director of Photography. And Mike Trim was amazing.

Very loose with us. The first sign you have a bad DP is that that's where they want to plant their flag on your white shirt. Completely.

Completely. My favorite is like if you're going to do a new, like a talk show or a show and they send you an email that says, don't wear a certain pattern because it will strobe. I go, this is gonna be a long interview. Yeah, it's the moiréing. That's what they say. It's moiré when your shirt has a checked pattern and you just, oh, we got to change his shirt. It's like, oh God, you know.

But there are lots of secrets. So anyway, yes. And I love fighting for the white, white shirt. Some things in life are worth fighting for, I think. You know, when you discover a new binge-worthy show or a song that you bump on repeat and you have to share it with your friends so they can experience just how awesome it is? That's kind of what it feels like when you discover that Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for $15 a month when you purchase a three-month plan. It's

Such an awesome deal. There's no way you can keep it to yourself. All plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all of your existing contacts. So to get this new customer offer and your new three-month premium wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com slash recollections. That's mintmobile.com slash recollections.

cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash recollections. $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 a month. New customers on first three-month plan only. Speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees, and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details.

When you're hiring for your small business, you want to find quality professionals that are right for the role. That's why you have to check out LinkedIn Jobs. LinkedIn Jobs has the tools to help you find the right professionals for your team, faster and for free. LinkedIn isn't just a job board. LinkedIn helps you hire professionals you can't find anywhere else, even those who aren't actively searching. 70% of users don't visit other leading job sites.

If you're not looking on LinkedIn, you're looking in the wrong place. LinkedIn knows that small businesses might not have the time or resources, so they're constantly finding ways to make the process easier. 86% of small businesses get a qualified candidate within 24 hours. They even just launched a feature that helps you write job descriptions, making the process even easier and quicker.

Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash parks. That's linkedin.com slash parks to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.

So this was the first episode officially written by Amy and she would later go on to write more episodes and she would also direct episodes. And that was always fun. Cause I mean, at a certain point, I think, you know, actors getting to direct it, it, you know, it, it makes sense, especially if they're paying a lot of attention when they shoot, cause they know everybody and they know their character and they know the show. And so it was always fun when she directed, I remember this episode later on, uh, called, I think the debate where, um,

there were a ton of cameras going at the same time because that's just how that episode was shot. And it was like, there's eight cameras going, but we also happen to have five people on set who had directed episodes. So Amy was directing and then Mike was there and Dean was there and Morgan Sagan was there and I was there. We were all like looking at two monitors each. It's like, oh, this is like my dream of how the show runs. It's like everyone's there and then we're just talking about it. And that's how it gets done, you know? And, you know, everyone has a

opinions, but it's such a collaborative process. So I always remember, you know, how deferential she was in some ways, also very authoritative, but, and she's gone on to direct movies and other shows. And, you know, this was kind of, I believe some of the earlier stuff she directed. So that's kind of fun. Well, not only that, this is, so the way it works with the Emmys people is the studio submits you to the television academy, like your producers, the studio pick an episode.

And they give it to them and then you either are nominated, not nominated, win, not win, based on, in theory, your whole work over the season, but nobody can watch the whole season, so that you pick an episode. This was...

the episode that got Amy her nomination, first nomination for Outstanding Comedic Performance. It is kind of crazy. Amy never won an Emmy for this show. Never. And, you know, obviously she did a great job and was nominated every year. By the way, and neither did Steve Carell. Steve Carell never... This is one of my great things. People talk about Emmys and awards and look, they're great. You get them, you don't get them. It's all good. But the notion that for seven straight years...

On television, there was someone funnier than Steve Carell in the office. Really? Seven years. Yeah.

Not true. Yeah. It's also great to go look back. And again, no shade on this guy. But I think Tony Shalhoub was winning like eight in a row for Monk or something for the show Monk, which is very, very, very funny. So you just never know. But I do remember coming on the show and people being like, man, well, that Nurse Jackie, that's, you know, what are you going to do? Snow Parks and Rec. Another thing I think, Greg, you and I were talking about was

because Amy was Leslie Knope, like literally was her, she kind of had a little bit more conviction and courage in pushing Leslie to places that

you might not otherwise in terms of if you weren't playing that character, you might want to keep her a little more likable or protect her. And in this episode, for instance, she does something relatively unlikable, which is she tries to convince Mark to propose to Anne on live TV to save her own telethon. And that's kind of an almost a more selfish color to Leslie that we hadn't seen for a while. But I think Amy believed in that story move.

And at the end of the day, she pulls it off, right? So she has to make a mistake in order to buy it back with Anne. And that provides a lot of shape and emotion to the episode. So I think that's something that Amy definitely pushed for and made the episode better. But, you know, it was the start of, you know, she's just such a creative powerhouse in every way and was able to, you know,

do, do a great job writing a draft in addition to obviously being an incredible lead actress. So it was fun. It was fun to see. Yeah. That's one of the things I like so much about the episode is the fact that it's kind of got that sweet cringe going on, you know, that, that Amy knew how to take her character to that place that we wouldn't hate her afterwards, but kind of love that kind of weird darkness that she could bring to it. There's levels of cringe. Like,

Like there's some cringe TV and cringe comedy that for me is just too cringy. And like, I like it for a minute, but I don't want to watch it for three minutes or four minutes or certainly not a whole episode. So I think the bullseye in this, in the, in the telephone episode is, is right in the sweet spot where you're like, Oh no, but you also love it. It's like the, it's like the, the character building a character that the quote is the villain you'd love to hate.

Meanwhile, most of the time, you just hate him. You know, but every once in a while, you hit the sweet spot. And I think that happened with the cringe on this one. Yeah, same thing. And I agree. And this also kind of dovetails in with the element that Mark Brandanowicz, that character, was leaving the show, you know? And so that kind of all...

And in the ultimate Park's ethos...

the relationship isn't going to work out. So it's goodbye. There's no like, he's going to get gunned down in the street or he's going to, he's going to die rescuing a child in an ice flow. There's like, like he's not getting a hero send off. That's not happening. And, and also he's like relatively takes it. Okay. Right. He's relatively empathetic. And he, you know, he acts kind of reasonably and it's like, all right, I'm, I'm out. Peace out, man.

Yeah, it's very unceremonious, that's for sure. There's a couple of things that Greg and Schultz have dug up here. I did notice this while watching it. When debating on whether to propose to Anne, Mark asked someone off camera what he should do. So he's like acknowledging that there's a documentary crew filming them, which...

We basically discarded that notion partway through the show. So it's interesting to me that that was still happening. I think we did it a fair amount in the first two seasons, but they never wound up making it into the episode. And so what winds up being are these kind of remnants of that. And so...

You're saying it's almost a mistake. No, it's just the thing. It almost should have been cut. The show altered a bit. I think that's what it is. Yeah. It definitely, because you watch, you know, you watch The Office, and I think there was a big sort of pushback in The Office when they did that later, later, later on in the season, you know, where they added like the boom guy or whatever. And then in Modern Family, which was shot in a similar way, they just never, they're like, this is not a documentary. People are talking into a camera for no clear reason, but it's not a documentary, and it's just happening. Yeah.

This. So the other thing I loved about the episode, just generally, do you have actors who come in, not just on parks, but in general, like who are more difficult, like they're super opinionated about what they want to wear, they don't want to wear or and then how do you handle it? That's a good question on Parks and Rec.

No. I'm like, do I divulge? At the same time I was doing Parks, I was doing another show across the lot. And there are people that are very opinionated. And really, my goal with my job is to make the actor comfortable. I take my own ego out of it. Also, I don't want to make anybody look bad on camera, so I'll be very honest. But

The most important thing is for the actor to feel the character. If I have an idea that the actor feels more comfortable in something, I mean, you can sense it in the fitting room where somebody starts to feel like the person that they are supposed to be on camera. And that's the direction I need to go, not something I preconceived. That's a real thing. Sometimes what you do can make it happen. I've

I feel like I'm part of the process that I get to. And sometimes I get to see the character come alive in the room. I mean, I can remember fitting you and where we kind of were laughing and all of a sudden it was like, this is so him and all, because we had him and like on the big place with Ted Danson, like we found this feather bow tie and we were like,

And Ted was like, all of a sudden turned on to the characters. So there's these moments where you feel like,

I found the character with the person because they, you know, sometimes an external piece helps the internal piece. For sure. And it's fine. It doesn't always happen. And when it does happen as an actor, you're just so grateful. You're so happy to have been like thrown a life vest where you're like, oh my God, I don't play this guy now. And, and that's why what, what you do is, is so, so important, particularly when,

You know, you're coming onto a show like I was, which was already a moving freight train. And, you know, you got to jump on board or get your arm ripped off. So, you know, when we figured those little button downs and collared shirts and all that stuff, it was, I was like, oh, I know what to do. Right, right. You kind of just start to feel it. And so that's the biggest joy. And what's the dream job?

A bunch of sweethearts. A bunch of sweethearts. And this episode is kind of like, you know, it's almost like a metaphor for the show because everyone teaming up could kind of solve the problem. And, you know, just circling back to Detlef Schrempf, for those of you who don't know who that is, he was a former Indiana Pacer. And, you know, we wanted the right level of celebrity for this telethon. And we kind of figured, I think basketball is huge in Indiana. Yeah.

Larry Bird, etc., Hoosiers. And there are a lot of big NBA fans on the writing staff. So plus his name is fun to say, Dello Shrimp. It's always funny. So he became a recurring character. I mean, he came back later. And then we also later had Roy Hibbert play himself on the show. And we also had an NBA all-star, Chris Bosh, on the show who...

wasn't playing himself. I think he was playing a really good high school basketball player. He was on the Eagleton team, I think. So a lot of NBA cameos on Parks and Rec. And it was because there were a lot of basketball fans on the show. So that was always really fun. It was really fun. I do feel like everybody's character and reel sort of merged a little. Ron Swanson and Nick are...

They have a lot in common. Yes. I also really loved the caning sequence with Ron. God, it was so funny. Something about Nick's face when he's doing it, he's like, over and under and wait for it. You guessed it. Over. Over.

It's just really good comedic acting by him. I just love that part. And then, of course, the money going down when he's doing that sequence was wonderful. I actually have a spec script that I wrote years ago that's just sitting around called Telethon. Because it's such a ripe world behind the scenes of Telethon. Because I've done a bunch of them. And there's so much stuff that goes on. Granted, Pawnee is not...

Hollywood. But it's the same thing. It's like I can remember George Clooney putting on a telethon for the tsunami disaster. And it was like you could see all these stars showing up.

like hoping they would be on camera to talk, but it was sort of up to George and he was sort of like the guru of it. And depending on whether he liked you or not, you'd like either get to say something incredibly moving in front of America, or you'd just be sitting answering a phone in the background. And like every kind of, everybody's kind of, it was so, and then it got to the point where, of course I was,

answering the phone and and people would literally call up and be like oh my god hello rob i'm like yes how much would you like to dedicate to the tsunami and they're like um i don't know is renee zellweger next to you could i talk to her and no way yeah and then like and and then it was like i remember seeing this at johnny depp and he was we were trying to like they didn't tell us how to get the money from the people and so they it was just a complete disaster and

So I've always wanted to really do a deep dive in what really goes on on telethons. That's hilarious. Number one, by the way, if Clooney did a telethon now, he should just use his Casamigos tequila money to just solve everything.

And then number two, telethons also gave us one of the most legendary unintentional comedy moments of the last 20 years, which was Kanye West saying George Bush doesn't care about black people. And standing next to Mike Myers, just looking bewildered. It's a great clip. Just look at Mike Myers' face. Oh, it's one of the great moments.

And it couldn't happen to the, you know, I've done a bunch of movies with Mike, obviously, and knowing how much Mike cares about things going perfectly and what a control freak and in the best possible way, you don't get to be Mike Myers without being in charge of details. So the notion that he of all people,

would be the guy. It's just, it's delicious. I say there are not enough telephones. How about that? There's something about it, man. There's something about it. It's such a weird world. You're right. That would be a funny idea. So, you know, it works in the small world of Pawnee and it's funny in Hollywood and it's weird with celebrities up there. You're totally right. I'll leave you with this. So, the Jerry Lewis muscular dystrophy telethon, which when I was a kid was the biggest thing

This shows you what was going on in Dayton, Ohio. On Memorial Day, that's what we did. We watched the telethon and I wanted to be on TV then. I was an actor. I wanted to be a young actor and I was like,

And it says, if you go donate, I was like, I want to go donate to the local firehouse where it was. But I thought if I donated somehow in Dayton, Ohio, enough money, I would be on the actual telethon, not having any idea that that was in Las Vegas. And I was in Dayton, Ohio. Not a smart kid. I was not so smart. But I remember driving all the way down there, put my $10 in the fireman's hat and being super disappointed that I didn't make it on TV. You know, but you know what? It was, it was all for the better good. And you made it on TV eventually. Yeah.

into an episode. I wasn't in this episode. Well, you're in the next one, though. It's actually very exciting. It's a countdown to Rob's episode next week, the first introduction of those two guys. So stay tuned for that episode. One thing I wanted to ask you before we let you go is, did actors get to keep their wardrobe? How often did that happen? Or did you have to take it back or steal it? Or did they sometimes steal it? I'm always curious about that.

I don't know if anybody's, did you take anything wrong? No comment. Because it's like, if it's good stuff, it's like, I know you're supposed to, it's like, is it a rental? What is it? Like, do you buy it in return? You know what? I'll tell you what goes on all the time is, because I'm commuting all the time from Santa Barbara. So I come in in like sweat, like literal pajamas. I show up in pajamas and I'm in LA and then I realized, oh, I have like a business dinner. So I will wear my wardrobe.

which is presentable to dinner, but I had to wear it back the next day. So that goes on all the time. That kind of stuff does happen for sure. And where does the wardrobe go? It all depends. I mean, it really does. You kind of have to ask the producers if somebody wants a particular jacket or something, and it all kind of works out in the wash. But basically, all the clothes go back to NBC into room 10.

giant place called the asset exchange. And every once in a while, I'll be an asset exchange for another NBC show and find like a parks and rec jam that I know I can't reuse because if somebody knew my, not that anyone's following me around, but that's fascinating. So there's this big warehouse with will and grace with,

So many great shows. And we share, you know, it's smart for NBC because they make it easier for us to, you know, right now our show, which Alan and I are doing, it's a universal show. So we can pull from asset exchange and make our party goers look amazing with clothes from past shows. So it's smart.

Wait to do business. That is fascinating. To explain any Western costume, that's still around, right? The famous Western costume? It is still around. It's so amazing. And if you ever wanted, I mean. They have tours. They have tours. They should have tours. Actually, almost all costume houses, because they're attached to Warner Brothers or Universal, they all have tours if you want to take one. But Western is the most amazing place.

you know, kind of Lords of Arabia and John Wayne movies and all kinds of things, you know, and you can often find old jackets with actors' names sewn in them. You know, it's an amazing place. And I have to say, I was doing a commercial. I was helping a friend. I was, as I said, I wanted to do art department and I went to Western Costume and it changed my life.

I went in there and I felt like, oh, my God, this place is magic. Now, you could go in there and feel like this place is a dusty hellhole. So just like I always send anybody who says they want to do costumes to all the costume houses around town and make them walk up and down every single aisle. And if at the end of the day you feel energized, which is an energizing task.

You can carry on in doing costumes. It's like going to the world's greatest thrift store. Really? And I was such a thrift store shopper my whole life, so I loved it. It's like with extra treasures. A thrift store with Jimmy Stewart sewed into a wool blazer. Or you'll go there and you'll go, wait a minute, this looks like...

One of the things that what the aliens wore on Lost in Space. Completely. Like you see your movie going and TV going childhood flash in front of your eyes on any given rack. It's really it's extraordinary if anyone ever gets the chance to do it. And they don't go to Hollywood and Vine. It's boring. There's nothing there but 7-Elevens. Go to Western Costume if you really want the Hollywood experience. Completely. And just walk through there and you get such history. Yeah.

But it is true when you put that many clothes in that giant of a warehouse. It is a dusty, hot cave. That is also true. Kirsten, it's Greg. I've been dying to ask you about one character in particular. I'm so glad you're here, which is Jean-Ralphio. Because you've talked so much about

dressing Pawnee was about blending in and just people being their normal selves, but then he is the exact opposite. And we've seen him two or three times this season, but he's about to go off on a whole new tangent soon. Can you talk at all about the fun or what it was like making Jean-Ralphio who he became? I'm so glad you circled back around to that because when you were asking me favorite characters to dress, Jean-Ralphio definitely...

and his sister, and his father, who's Henry Winkler, they were the most fun because we just got to go as far as we wanted. And again, Mike Schur, the creator, just kind of

Let us go wild with him and just thought the character got funnier and funnier as the seasons progressed. Yeah, it's almost like with these side characters, wardrobe and the writing and all of the performance, like you can go a little bit crazier, right? You can go a little bit broader with a side character. They're not in every episode. You don't have to think of Jean-Ralphio as that well-rounded a human being.

Right. For the main characters, you want them to have multifaceted, rich inner lives. You want to be, you know, you want them to behave in character, but also have enough range so that they could occasionally behave out of character and you believe it. John Ralfio was essentially a receptacle for the wildest, most insane jokes and like Ben Schwartz improvs. So that was, and also the craziest hair in the business. So yeah. Yeah. Ben is amazing. He's so much fun. And yeah,

you know, there's always one in the town. I can always make sense, you know, or two, the siblings, the twins. It totally makes sense. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Kirsten. I know you're a very busy person. I know that because I know how much work you do with us on the new show. So thank you so much for joining us. And yeah, anything you want to add about this episode or anything about the show? Otherwise, we'll let you go. I'll just say this is my all-time favorite show, Alan.

Maybe until we get this other one going. I love that. I love that optimism. And God willing, we'll have as much fun on this one. But yeah, thank you so much for coming on, Kirsten. We love you. Thank you guys. Thank you. Reese's peanut butter cups are the greatest, but let me play devil's advocate here. Let's see. So no, that's a good thing. That's definitely not a problem. Reese's, you did it. You stumped this charming devil.

At Ashley, you'll find colorful furniture that brings your home to life. Ashley makes it easier than ever to express your personal style with an array of looks in fun trending hues to choose from, from earth tones to vibrant colors to calming blues and greens. Ashley has pieces for every room in the house in the season's most sought after shades. A more colorful life starts at Ashley. Shop in store online today. Ashley, for the love of home.

We have been so happy with the response. So many questions coming in. Please keep sending them in. What's the email address, Shulte, that we can send in? People can send in town hall questions?

Of course, it's parksandrecollectiontownhall at gmail.com. You can also find it in the show description. That's right. So we've been really happy with the feedback, so send in your questions. Where should we do this town hall, Rob? We have tons of options. I think we need to do it at the cable access studios.

That's a great idea. This is where the episode takes place, Pawnee Community Access Studios. It's where Leslie spends 24 hours and the whole team is there. So this question that we'll do in the town hall in this public access studios comes to us from Bobby in Burbank.

Bobby asks, Hi, Alan, Rob, production team. Love the podcast. I even gave it a five-star review on Apple. Shout out to Bobby. Very, very, very. That's a way to get your question read, by the way. Just mentioned that you gave us a five-star review. Bobby asks, My question is, if in the future this podcast is so successful, NBC asks the both of you to create a PNR spinoff show, which character would get the spinoff and why? Well, number one, Bobby,

This podcast will be that successful. Let's will it into existence. Let's speak it into existence. It's a great question. Thank you for asking. I mean, there's an obvious answer for Rob, which is he plays a character of the show, so he may be biased. What do you think, Rob? Listen, I think it's, first of all, I think it should be about Mouse Rat and Chris should manage the band. I think it's kind of, it's in the genre, but it's also super unexpected.

It could be a music show in the style of, there's been a lot of great music shows in the past. My girlfriend is an actress on the show Dave. Maybe there could be a crossover with the Lil Dicky show Dave on FX. And yeah, it could be about Maserat Traveling Country. All we have to do is get Pratt. We can get Burley. We could get Mark Rivers. And Chris can be, Chris, what kind of music manager would Chris be? Enthusiastic.

And indefatigable. Indefatigable. He would have booked a tour with Dave Matthews in the first day, in the pilot episode, we got a tour with Dave Matthews. You wouldn't be doing one night stands, you would be doing multiple shows a night stands. Right.

Yeah, maybe we, you know, in addition to this, we get Duke Silver, we get cameos from Ron, and he could open for some of the shows, and that would be really fun. He's in the band now. I would make sure he's in the band. He's essentially in the band. So for those of you who don't know, Mouserat would play the rap parties at the end of every season, and often Nick would play saxophone with us, which was very fun also. I also think we should do like what Paul McCartney did, like Linda McCartney went on tour for

you know, on all of that stuff. So we should bring all the other characters come with, regardless of their musical talent. And they're just on stage doing it, playing the triangle and stuff. I love that. Tambourine, triangle, woodblock. Cowbell. Yeah, exactly. John Ralphio playing every instrument. And there's a funny pitch here from Schulte in the chat. They also solve mysteries, which why not? Why not? Right? It's like, it's a band that solves mysteries. Yeah.

Yes. That's great. Well, thank you so much, Bobby. We're going to take our leave from the Pawnee Community Access Studios. And yeah, write in your town hall questions, parksandrecollectiontownhall at gmail.com. And we'll see you next week. Big episode next week, Rob. The Master Plan. So excited. Your first appearance on the show. Thanks for listening. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and tell a friend. Thanks to producer Greg and producer Schulte. Goodbye from Pawnee. Bye-bye.

Parks and Recollection is produced by Greg Levine and me, Rob Schulte. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. The podcast is executive produced by Alan Yang for Alan Yang Productions, Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Jeff Ross, Adam Sachs, and Joanna Solitaroff at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. Gina Batista, Paula Davis, and Britt Kahn are our talent bookers. The theme song is by Mouse Rat, a.k.a. Mark Rivers.

with additional tracks composed by John Danek. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on Parks and Recollection. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher. Reese's Peanut Butter Cups are the greatest, but let me play devil's advocate here. Let's see, so... No, that's a good thing. That's definitely not a problem. Reese's, you did it! You stumped this charming devil!

Kevin Hart here. You know you can cash back 5% on travel purchase through Chase with Freedom Unlimited? So cash back that vacation for some relaxation. How do you cash back? Learn more at ChaseFreedom.com. Restrictions and limitations apply. Offers subject to change. Cards are issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC.