Ben’s Parents (S5E6)
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Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Parks and Recollection. This is going to be a super fun one for a reason you'll find out soon. Oh, we'll see about that. We'll see about that. I'm Jim O'Hare. I'm the guy who played Jerry, Gary, Larry, Terry, even Barry from Johnny Karate. And the co-host is...

It's Greg Levine, the guy who's barely played Greg Levine for more decades than I'd like to admit. The reason this is super exciting, I think, is because you wrote this episode. I wrote this episode. That is so exciting because we're going to get the real deal of how this all comes together. The other episodes, we've kind of just been faking it. Faking it. I didn't care. I didn't care. You haven't cared. I haven't cared for one second. And I felt that. Yes, read the comments.

Anyway, no. Oh, no, Jim. I'm one of those people, and I love it when I listen to other podcasts of other shows. I love hearing how it all comes together. And I lived it. I know how things come together, but I know it from the people in front of the camera. I'm not behind the camera. I'm not in a writer's room all day, and I'm certainly not figuring out how you even got this. All stuff I want to hear. Do you remember there was a show? It feels like a TLC or Discovery Channel show called How It's Made.

Of course. And it was just like the most mundane things. Yes. And how they're made. And you just watched like a factory assemble, I don't know, anything from like Oreo cookies to staples. Yes. And it was just...

I could watch that. To this day, I go on YouTube and watch that kind of stuff all the time. It's mesmerizing. Yes, I could watch it silent. Anyway, how things are made is very interesting. It's really interesting. How did they get the cream into that Twinkie? It's mesmerizing. And you're going to die not knowing, right? No, no, I know. Oh, because I watched how it's made. Well, and that's why our listeners will understand how these episodes are made because they will have listened to this podcast.

So our series here to understand how Parks and Rec got made, you hear that segue, it was

It was beautiful. Well, let's jump into today's episode because it's called Ben's Parents. And it was written by me, Greg Levine. Greg Levine. Greg Levine. Yeah. That's a sound effect. Just so you know, it sounded so real, but that was me. That was you. That was not an effect. What was happening to you? Yeah, no, no. Joe. I'm worried about you. You guys are thinking, oh, Joe put in some magical effect. No, that was me doing an audience cheer.

But anyway, it was directed by Dean Holland. It originally aired November 8th, 2012, two days after the presidential election that year. Jim, can you give us a blurb? It's why people are here. Leslie tries to mend fences between Ben's divorced parents at her and Ben's engagement party with a handmade Unity quilt.

But things go off the rails when Ben's dad shows up with his much younger and newly pregnant girlfriend. Meanwhile, Tom and Jean-Ralphio aim to make Ron a ground-level investor in their newest business venture, Rent-A-Swag. And April, Andy, and Ann try to stop Chris from literally spiraling into a pit of loneliness. Yes. I love the literally's from Chris because he says them so emphatically, literally.

But if he only said figuratively, that emphatically, it would all make sense. It would make sense, yes. Okay, listen, before we even get into this stuff, how did this happen? How did it come about that you were going to write this episode? They just walk up to you and say, hey, this is your episode? Or how does it come about? No, I mean, I, at the time, was the writer's assistant and script coordinator. And I've been on the show since the very beginning, as we've talked about. And generally, the assistants are given scripts. It's one of the reasons you...

our writer's assistant, I think, to not just get experience, to be in the room and to learn. It's the stepping stone towards being a writer. But you also get opportunity to write and to test your mettle. You see what you're worth here. And so I had co-written an episode in season three with Brian Rowe, who was the co-writer's assistant at the time. But this one was

all mine to the sense that any TV series episode is a writer's because it's such a collaborative experience. But I knew this was going to be my episode. And so when we were starting to break the story and come up with an outline, I was definitely more hands on in that. And I sat down with Mike and

between seasons four and five to talk about the next season. And that's when I learned I would be able to get an episode. I didn't know when it was going to be, but I knew it was probably going to be in the first run of them. And it turned out to be this one. And I'm going to guess, and I can only compare this to one day we did the episode of season two in parks and Morgan Sackett, our line producer said to me, you're getting an episode.

And I wasn't even a series regular at this point. It went from like, oh my God, like you're so excited to 10 minutes later. Oh God. Oh my God. That seems like a lot of pressure. But Morgan was saying to you was you're going to get an episode as in there's going to be a story.

devoted to your character, right? Exactly. Yeah. It was the A story of the week. Right. At that point, again, not even a series regular. So my point is I went from incredible excitement to then panic. Right. As a typical actor. Yeah. Is that the same when you guys, when you get that word? Absolutely. I mean, the job of the writer's assistant is to make the writing experience go smoothly for the writing staff. But it's a very quiet job.

In that you sit in the corner of the room and you take notes and you proofread a script and you join the conversation when you feel... So you are allowed to pitch? Like, if they're having a discussion about things, can you pitch when you're a writer's assistant? It varies from room to room depending on the

Frankly, the type of showrunner you're working for, the types of writers and egos in the room. And we've talked about this with Parks. Parks was a very great place to work. It was a very collaborative place. And so I spoke and I would pitch when I felt like I had a...

oh, good idea. That was worth it. And you'd get a laugh or you'd see your idea, make it onto a note card or in the script. It's one of the greatest feelings. Oh, that's awesome. And then to then experience someone just pitch something maybe 2% funnier five seconds later and see your idea come off the board. But that is the experience of writing is that you just have to be egoless in a way about it. You have to just try to make the best show. And so to be able to write an episode,

of the show I had been a part of for about five years at this point. It was very exciting. And to answer your question earlier, I went for years being like, I want to write an episode. I can do this. I can do this. I can't wait till I get my shot. And then I found out from Mike I was going to get an episode. And then I remember driving home that day being like, I don't know if I can do this. Of course. I don't think I can do this. And I called my best friend who's a writer too. And I was like, I, this, I don't know.

What do I do? Yes. And it goes from euphoria to dread. Yes. Very fast. Same thing with actors. Because you want your shot and then you're like, this is my shot. Yeah. I got great advice from Dan Gore, who I believe got this advice from Paul Lieberstein from The Office.

which was, you know, you have about five days at home to write our episodes. It's not a lot of time. When you say at home, so you guys, the person writing the episode doesn't even come into the office for the week? Don't say like doesn't even come into the office. Like it's banker's hours kind of thing. No, no, no. But you know what I'm saying? Like you go off on your own. You go off on your own because you have to write

A first draft of a script, you have to like, you know, turn the blank page into something. I think traditionally, in the heyday of TV writing, you'd go home for a week or two to write a half hour of television. But with Parks, it was like this at the office. It was so busy. We had about five days. Wow. And...

I will say, I was also the writer's assistant at the time with someone else too, but I still came into the office for half days to do that other job. And so I'd go home around 4pm and start writing till wee hours of the morning, go to sleep, come back into the office for a 9am start, and then I'd go home.

for five days. Wow. And so the advice I got from Dan Gore, he said, write an act each day and then you'll have two days to revise. And the morning of the day you write your first act, take a shot. Literally take a shot. Yeah.

And then do that for the other two days. Cut out that top layer of stress and doubt that I think many people bring to the table of life, especially in the creative space. But let me ask you this. What information are you given? You're told, here's the premise of this episode. Ben's parents? Like, are you creating the storylines? No. I mean, yes and no. In that, by the time the writer of an episode on our show went off to write their first draft,

They had close to 50 pages of notes that was taken by the writer's assistant. That includes early versions of the story to random jokes that are pitched. It's pretty much a court reporting system.

kind of dialogue. You also have all the cards that have been written and the entire, I took a three foot by four foot bulletin board home of all the cards from my episode. I never returned it. Sorry. It's still in my office. I use it all the time. And then in that time of prep, you have to write, we called it the Goldilocks.

And the Goldilocks, I think a lot of series will call this, it's called the story area. It's a very short telling of your story. It's maybe about a page to tell your A, B, and C story. Greg Daniels called it the Goldilocks because the story of Goldilocks is a very simple story.

There really isn't a single line that's unnecessary. You could expand on it. You could flush it out and make it bigger and broader and more rich with detail. But the story of Goldilocks is just very simple. And so the task was take this big idea and write a Goldilocks of it. And write a

He's a genius. Let's just say this. Greg Daniels is a genius. But it's really helpful so that you don't just get distracted by this other stuff. Is our simple story working? So we did a Goldilocks. And then as a writer of the episode, you're also going to write the outline. And the outline was between, I don't know, five to 15 pages. Very detailed in the script format. So you kind of started to see things be put together. And so when I went home, I had my Goldilocks. I had...

the outline. I had all the notes and then had to find the path forward through it. For you to get 50 pages, this has been a discussion in the room for days, this episode. Every episode. Every episode. Every episode spends at least two weeks in the room just being talked about at various stages. Maybe it's

for an hour for one day because you're also rewriting an episode or whatever. But yeah, you talk about it for a lot. To the point that my first draft, the episode was called The Standoff or something because it was...

Kind of supposed to be about the standoff between Ben's parents. Right? And the idea of it being called Ben's parents wasn't even there. Rent-A-Swag was called Tom's Closet at the time because we hadn't figured out that it should be called Rent-A-Swag. The idea of the Unity Quilt didn't exist at all when I went off to write my episode. Yeah, scripts change a lot.

Sometimes they just work and the story doesn't change much from the writer's first draft to the episode people see. And sometimes they go through a lot of change. And that's just the way it works. The nature of it, yeah. But let's... Let's get into it! Let's get into it. I also want to call out, I think it'd be fun because this episode is a lot of fun

Oh, so many great guest stars. Jonathan Banks plays Ben's dad, Steve Wyatt, best known for playing Mike Ehrmantraut on Breaking Bad and on Better Call Saul. I will have to jump in and say you're wrong about that. I think he's best known for working with Jim O'Hare in 1996 on a remake of Heartbreak.

Harvey in Vancouver. Oh, yeah. Yes. So I have been in love with Jonathan Banks since 1996. And I've always known that he's brilliant and wonderful and everything. So when I knew he was coming on set, I was like kind of out of my mind. Yeah. Because I hadn't seen him since we did it. There were a lot of people out of their mind when he was on set. Like a lot of people wanted to come and get their picture taken with him. I'll bet. Yeah. We have Glenn Headley played Julia Wyatt, Ben's mom. Yeah.

Kulap Valesak played Ulani. And a fun note is that Kulap actually originally auditioned for the role of April Ludgate. That, see, I love those fun facts. And she was in The Office. She played Nikki in The Office. I saw her in The Office. Yes, twice, I think. In the Benihana Christmas episode. Pamela Reed returns as Marlene, Leslie's mom, and our good friend Ben Schwartz as Jean-Ralphio. Jean-Ralphio. And I'm going to throw this out. Pamela Reed as Leslie's mother.

You know, I never really talk dirt about Parks because I just love every aspect of it. I think we should have used her more. I would not have mind seeing a little more of Pamela Reed because I think her relationship with Leslie was very sweet. Anytime there was any sexual talk, Leslie's like, I can't hear it, I can't hear it, I can't hear it. But she was also very wise. You see where Leslie got her chutzpah and her drive to do things. And so I would have liked to have seen more, but.

My opinion. Should we synopsize? Synopsize. Newly engaged, Leslie beams as she shows off her conflict-free engagement ring. But her enthusiasm is tempered when Ben confesses he's worried about bringing together his feuding divorced parents to celebrate their big news.

Meanwhile, Tom and Jean-Ralphio practice their rent-a-swag business proposal in front of April and Andy who find it reminiscent of Entertainment 720's over-the-top style. I think we can say Tom and Jean-Ralphio

Jean-Ralphio have a specific way they go about things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's loud. It's obnoxious. Yes. And you have to have the right audience for that. Well, that's interesting because the B story is built out of Jean-Ralphio and Tom preparing for this big presentation for Ron. And it was, you know, oddly very tough to write because...

These are two people who usually see eye to eye on everything. Maybe John Rao feels a little crazier, but they share the same energy. And this was one in which Tom...

Tom had to start to become frustrated and realize that maybe he's not the right business partner and for there to be conflict, because any conflict in scenes are pretty boring. And so to have conflict between two friends who don't usually have conflict and it's hard to create conflict between them, it was a harder B story to write. And I also think there's people like Tom, who is Tom, but he can grow. He can learn. Right.

Jean-Ralphio, until the day he's in that grave, is going to be Jean-Ralphio. Right, to the point that this series finale, he's dead, but he's not really. He's not even really dead. Everything is a scam. Everything is a way that it's a money grab. And he doesn't care who's hurt in the meantime. I don't think of him as a mean, bad person, just off the rails.

And let me ask you this. Who decides what's the B and the C story? Now, sometimes it's very obvious to me what's a B and a C because of time given to it or whatever. The Chris story with him being upset as well as the Tom and Jean-Ralphio story felt like they were given the same amount of time. So who decides what's the B and what's the C? Well, the easy answer is it really doesn't matter. Like, being...

them being called that is irrelevant when you think about how to write the episode, edit the episode or anything, right? Sometimes it makes sense to call it that for, I think, the writers working. So you start to realize how much real estate, and I mean, real estate isn't time in the episode. You really need to worry about devoting to it. Like, you can imagine a C story is perhaps the silliest of stories, right? It's the one where you see the fewest beats of it. It probably doesn't

matter, especially in comedy for the long-term story arcs. It's not forwarding much. So you don't need to worry that much about plot, right? And about consequence of it. In this case, I call the Tom and John Ralph story the B story because it starts early on in the episode, right? And

it kind of has its own self-sustaining energy. Whereas the sea story, which we'll get into with Chris's emotional state. Bit of a breakdown. Kind of really, really gets jumping off once we get into the engagement party. So the cold open is so fun, right? Leslie's showing off her ring. And you get Chris who's so excited because he thinks he's the first person that they're telling the big news to. Which I just love his excitement when he comes into the...

into the office and Leslie's, you know, it's like, we just got engaged and you're hearing about it for the very first time. Yay. And I was like, yeah. Yeah. Okay. And also when Chris has told the news, his sentence of the joy I'm feeling now is profound and unmatched in the modern era. Yeah. Yeah.

That is so Chris. Yeah. It's so ridiculous. I know. Yes, it's wonderful news. But there has been other news in the world that perhaps eclipsed that. I can't think of a single. I can't think of it. No, he's right. But he's right. He's right. Yeah. It's great. And then, of course, we have the moment. Leslie is talking about her ring. And, of course, it's beautiful. And she goes, she's so proud to say this is a non-conflict diamond. And then just the look from Pratt, you know, from Andy. Oh.

Yeah. It's too bad. Yeah, because it's a non-conflict. And the way she says it, like, I guess I'm not happy about that. But that's a good thing, everybody. It's a very good thing. He doesn't understand that it's a very good thing. Yes, yes.

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Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash parks. That's linkedin.com slash parks to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. So we have the scene out in the courtyard, right, with Anne and Leslie and Ben. And Anne is, Leslie's maid of honor, and she gets the distinct pleasure of planning the engagement party. And, you know, the original script had more of this, but, you know, it's stressful to imagine throwing a party for...

For Leslie. Oh, gosh. The queen. Right. The queen of all that is parties and gifts. Right. In fact, you could have built an entire episode about Leslie micromanaging her own party. I think it would be less fun at that point because you don't want to see that version of Leslie here. But it's a big job. And, you know, Ben dreading his parents being in the same room. That was valid dread. Yeah. He had every reason to dread that. Yeah. As we saw. Yeah. He had every reason. They were nasty. Yeah.

Yeah, and there's something really fun about them being nasty. Of course. But can you imagine Ben being raised by, like the mother, yes. I can see being raised by his mother. But boy, that father. Right. He's a tough one. He is. He's tough. And you know, he's got that face and that look and those eyes. And it is intimidating. Like the thought of him being your dad, right?

Like my dad could give me a look that would shut it all down. Yeah. Yeah. Like in a heartbeat, but it wasn't his look.

90% of the time, it was when I had done something that he felt that look was justified. But I feel like Ben's dad has that look a lot. Who also can give a look as Ulani, Kulap. Oh, she's got a cold look. And we find out that Ulani means cheerful. That's such a great moment. In the way she says it, cheerful. Yes. She's a great character. I loved her on The Office and I love her on this. No, but I think that in this case, I think you want to secretly see Ben being like,

Yeah. Right? Like, imagine them being, you know, NPR loving, farmer's market going, RV owning parents. But that's not the case. That is not what Ben got. No. And I think in a way, it's actually quite, you feel proud of Ben that he didn't just repeat the sins of the past.

He has broken whatever crazy cycle was there. Right. Though I do love a couple times in the episode, Ben's father calls him Benny. Yeah. And that's very endearing. And so I think there also was, you know, like any relationship, good and bad. But he was certainly... Totally right. Because Benny, that's such a fun... Yeah, that there was a moment in his upbringing where Ben's dad, Steve, wasn't always...

The schmuck. The schmuck, exactly. Right? He was dad. Yep, I like that. We need that. Yes. Well, let's forge on, my friend, because we're going to meet them soon. In our synopsis, with guests set to arrive any minute, Leslie unveils her secret weapon of reconciliation to Ben, a handmade quilt meant to unify their families.

Meanwhile, Anne makes a toast to the happy couple, sending Chris into a fit of despair. Yeah, that was tough. But let me ask, you said earlier there was no quilt. There was no quilt. How did the quilt make the episode? The quilt made the episode in the rewriting phase for this episode. I knew it was missing something. It's the job of the writer when they go off to write their first draft to write the draft of the episode we've broken.

Even if you're like, I don't know if this works, you kind of have to see it on the page because you can't just change things on your own. This is a team effort. And so I wrote the draft knowing, well, there's something that's not enough here that's not sustaining the episode because so much of Act 1 and 2

especially when we're in the party and his parents come. It's just about them being jerks. And there's a storyline where Leslie's like, all right, we need to divide and conquer them. And like, mom, you go talk to Ben's mom and you guys go talk to Steve and let's just keep them separate. And keeping them separate was the comedy game of the second act.

And then the reveal about Ulani being pregnant was the big twist of Act 2. But ultimately, it was like a minor complication because we already knew that Steve was a jerk. Oh, yeah. Right? And so...

He was just missing something. And it was missing Leslie, frankly, right? When you think about it, that is missing the Leslie of it all. Leslie has plans for things. She knows how to fix things. She's crafty and she's inventive. And so she made this Unity quilt. And it was very, it just feels cute in the same way that she made pillows for everyone for Galentine's Day, right? This is what she does.

And so... I don't know when she does it because she's doing something 24-7. Well, she's quilted. How do you have time to quilt? You just got engaged and you have this unity quilt. And it's amazing. I've seen people talk about quilting. It can take months to come up with like a beautiful quilt. Not Leslie. Boom, boom, boom.

Well, you know, she has this great talking head where she talks about quilts. And she said, in ninth grade, a quilt ended an argument between her two best friends. It settled the Donna Jerry parking lot feud of 2006. Oh, that was a tough one, yeah. And she's like, what was the third time? Right fucking now. Yeah. Right?

And the Unity Quilt is adorable. It was just an idea. This is just like a throwaway line, right? There's a Unity Quilt, and you say Unity Quilt a bunch of times in this episode, but then someone makes a Unity Quilt. And we've talked to our props master, Gabe Perello, about this before. By the way, the greatest props master in the biz. Do you remember we were talking to her about her favorite props she's ever made, and it's this. Wow. Right? And I think she said that she and Mike traded off the ownership of it.

She and Mike Short, right? Where they trade like every year or something like that. They switch over who has the Unity quilt. But there are these great squares. We have one for Julia, Ben's mom. It's an artist palace. She's an artist. Marlene is there, Leslie's mom. There's Dr. McSteamy driving a school bus on it. Henry, who's Ben's brother. Stephanie, Ben's sister. Leslie has City Hall. Waffles, obviously, which will later become Ulani Square. Lil' Sebastian from

For Ben, there's a Game of Thrones calculator, a Washington monument, because obviously the American flag with Joe Biden's head on it, and a City of Pawnee seal. Which there is a moment where Leslie is bragging to Ben that she didn't even put on, you know, the sexiest man alive, Joe Biden. He goes, yes, she did. He's right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Joe Biden is on. Yeah, yeah. Because she knows. She knows. We all know. She knows. Yep, we get it.

But anyway, we had the Unity Quilt and it was a lovely totem, right? It's a great thing you get to look at constantly. This is the thing you're tracking and it is a visual representation of the harmony that Leslie's trying to establish and the eventual disharmony that will come when Ulani cuts the square up.

I want to just say one thing that tickles me is I have this bit that when friends get engaged, they post about on Instagram, my comment of it will always be like, if you hurt him or if you hurt her with like a bunch of dots, like periods after it, like of like a big threat. And it makes me laugh. I don't know if it makes anybody else laugh, but it cracks me up. And anyway, I say that because I built the toast thing

This is one of my things that for sure stayed in when Anne is toasting everyone and Anne's like, don't you dare hurt her. Very sweet. Don't you dare hurt her. Right. I'm not going to hurt her. And then everyone's like, we mean it, son. No, really. And I was like, do you think I'm going to hurt Leslie? It's just a funny thing.

thing that makes me laugh. And also, that was fun to shoot because we all, you know, we get to play around. We do a fun run and some of those were like, we're going to kick your ass. Yes, yes. Like, you know, things that would never make the air. Yes. But again, my favorite moments. Here we all are together in a circle. You're just, in fact, you're just standing in a circle inside of a boring living room. That's all we're doing. It's just...

Ten friends. I could do that all day long. Those are my favorite scenes. Yeah. And of course, at the end, Ben's like, well, I mean, of course I would never hurt Elizabeth. You're my friends too, right? There's this pause. And is it April who goes, eh? Yeah. Yeah. That's so great. And I love that moment too where, you know, Chris starts getting very emotional and starts crying. It's just really when his storyline kind of kicks off and Donna has him there, there, baby boy, take all the time you need because he's

He puts his head on her shoulder and she gives that knowing look to camera. So funny. You hang here, baby boy. Yeah. Yeah. It was a great moment. Yeah. Yeah. This hot man has got his beautiful face against my chest and she's loving every second of it. She is loving it because Donna likes her man. Yes. Love that. Let's meet Ben's parents. How do you feel about that? I'm ready to meet that son of a whatever.

The party is off to a smooth start until Ben's dad, Steve, arrives with his much younger girlfriend, Ulani.

Meanwhile, Anne enlists Andy and April to talk Chris out of his despair. Okay, when Anne comes in to enlist Andy and April's help, you know, she kind of just like comes in from a scene and she's like, she finds Andy and April sitting on the couch. I think Champions with them. Champions with them, yeah. Right, and she's trying to go off to do this other thing and they keep calling her back and Andy's game is like, keeps asking like childlike questions. Like, why does he feel this way? One after the other. But it's a very transitional little scene.

Right? It's not a big setup and she's just passing through. And so that's what this episode was like. That's what a party...

in one contained space feels like. And you have to be mindful, I think, of... You can tell from Anne's, you know, demeanor. She's got to get going. She's got a million things she's tracking here, but it doesn't matter. Why? Why does it feel that way? Oh, yeah. I know, I know. Because it's Andy. Of course you love it. Yeah. Because he's so damn sweet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. God bless that boy.

Let's jump forward with more story in our synopsis. The time has come to unveil the Nope Wyatt Unity Quilt and once revealed, Ulani takes immediate offense to not being included, prompting Leslie to reappropriate a waffle square into an Ulani square.

Meanwhile, Andy and April realized the best way to even out Chris's mood is to say equally wonderful and disgusting things to him at the same time. And then meanwhile, Tom and John Ralphio butt heads while reworking their presentation for Ron. Okay, I'm going to jump in here and say, because Leslie is all inclusive. She really is that type of person.

I think Iulani and Steve were wrong. There's no reason she should have been on the Unity quilt. Now, we find out later there's a baby coming and that is going to change things. But for all we know, this is a girlfriend. People come in and out of people's lives all the time. She did not belong on the Unity quilt and I'm just going with that. I think that is clear. I think she doesn't belong on that, but they feel strongly about that. Oh, they feel very strong about it. And they're just trying to make it through the night.

Right? We're just trying to appease everybody. I felt like they were looking for trouble. Of course they were looking for trouble. They were totally looking for trouble. I mean, we haven't gotten there yet, but he's going to announce that Ulani's pregnant, right? And they were dying to talk about it. And the way Jonathan Banks delivers it so funny is that young Ben's going to be a big brother or whatever, right? And it's like he's so excited to both reveal the news, but also stoke the fire. Oh, because he's looking to stab his ex-wife.

Yeah, Julia. She's young and she's pregnant. I'm still shooting bullets, Benny. Yeah, it's still going on. Anyway, you know, we found a quote from Gay Perrello about the Unity Quilt, about the waffle square, the Yulanu square, where she says, we had to have a square that gets written on and made into a happy face and later gets cut.

cut off the quilt. I chose a waffle as the square because that would be easiest for Amy to draw on and quickly look like a smiley face due to the round shape.

And she's right. 100%. Yeah. There's also a mention here where Gay says, Jeannie Jo, my seamstress, sewed Velcro around the square and made six backup squares for us to replace on set for each take. It worked flawlessly. As an actor, in my head, it's like, oh, well, we can't do more than six takes. So we're going to wrap this up sooner than later. Oh, because you only have six of them. Yeah, well. Okay, we're going to do six. Yeah, you got to bring it, Jim. You got to bring it. A lot of pressure.

We should talk about this scene and the story a little bit more about cheering Chris up. It's this great comedy game for Andy and April where they're saying different things to even out his mood, which makes absolutely no sense. But the way that Rob Lowe sells it, it makes total sense. He feels good when Andy says nice things. Yeah.

And so he says, pizza, the beach, rock and roll music. Right? And April's like, I'll list terrible things to bring you down. Smallpox, botched surgery, snails crawling out of your mouth. And then Andy says, like, laughter, the beach, cute cats, whatever. And she says, snails crawling out of your mouth, snails crawling out of your butt. And then, of course, the Dave Matthews band. Dave Matthews. We're all in agreement. Yes, yes.

It's good and terrible. Yeah, yeah. Also, there's a moment in there when they're trying to cheer Chris up and Anne brings him a tray of shrimp. But, you know, she's just thinking maybe he'll eat something. Right. And he takes a bite of this shrimp and he goes, oh, this is delicious. And he's so, like you can see, he's coming back and then he takes a bite of another one. This one's not as good. And he immediately crashes. Yeah, yeah. Great moment by our friend Rob Lowe. Yes. Great moment. All right. Let's move on in our synopsis, my friend.

Back at the party, things have hit an all-time low with Julia cutting Ulani's square out of the quilt in a fit of jealousy and Ulani revealing that she's pregnant. Meanwhile, back at Tom's apartment, John Ralphio has bailed on the business proposal, leaving Tom to revamp the presentation by himself.

Then after a heart-to-heart with her mom about marriage, Leslie grabs four bottles of wine and all the brownies and heads for the cab parked out front. But Ben convinces her to go back in and present a unified front to Ben's family. Together, Ben and Leslie tell his parents that while they don't have to speak to each other at the wedding, they do have to attend and pretend to have a good time. Which really, that's not asking too much. Just show up.

because you don't even need to see each other. Just turn your different directions. Be pleasant. We've all dealt with situations with family. There's divorces. There's this and that. And it can just screw up the most basic event because people are not willing to be civil. And I do want to give a shout out to Doug Smith is the cab driver who has been the cab driver a number of times on Parks and Recreation because he's also one of our producers. Yes. And Doug is just a great guy. Yes. He was the UPM, I believe, at the

time, right? I believe he was. Yeah. And he's got this great voice. And it's so funny for us who've worked on the show to watch episodes and to almost forget. Oh, yeah. Doug was in this. Doug. Doug. And he's doing a great job of acting. But you're like, but that's Doug. Yeah. But we had that here and there. We've had PAs who ended up in the scenes. Yeah. No, it's great. Yeah. We just did it a number of times. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was always the cab driver. Well.

Remember they're leaving an airport at one point? Yeah, they have one cab, I think. Yeah, there's one cab in Pawnee. Yeah. Want the same expert advice you get from the pros in the store while shopping online at DiscountTire.com? Meet Treadwell, your personal online tire guide that matches you with the perfect tire for your vehicle. Get your best match in one minute or less with Treadwell by Discount Tire. Let's get you taken care of. Yep, that's who you think it is.

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Let's talk about this really sweet and fun moment, I think, between Leslie and her mom and Marlene. You know, we don't get Leslie and her mom in scenes too often together, especially when it's not some comedy game that in a way they're being pit against each other, like Marlene hitting on Ben or whatever, right? And so it's actually kind of sweet. And I think it was intentional in the crafting of the episode by the staff, too.

If you're going to show Ben with his parents in a tough relationship, I mean, Marlene's not easy, but she's sweet. And we could see a nice relationship at the same time between Leslie and her mom. And, you know, she has this great advice. Like any married couple, your father and I fought occasionally. Sometimes he won the argument. Sometimes I won. But usually we forgot. Yeah.

we were arguing about and just had sex. And I was like, Leslie, Leslie can't handle that. But the important thing is we always ended up on the same team and in the same bed. But it's a really true thing that you're going to fight, you might have your things, whatever, but like you got to land together. Yeah. Right. And so that energy is what brings, I think, where Leslie and Ben are like, we matter.

The two of us matter here. What do we want out of this? And it kind of took the experience of a tough engagement party for them to have the chutzpah in a way to then stand in front of Ben's parents and say, this is what we expect of you. Yeah. Literally what we expect. And if you don't, you won't be at our wedding. Yeah. And they're not wrong. No. This is all we're asking. Yeah. Civility. Yes. That's it. That's all we're asking for.

I may mention this on a previous episode of the podcast, but there's this thing in TV called character payments. Let's say I wrote an episode and it's the first episode Marlene shows up in. Any future time that Marlene shows up, the writer of the whoever episode, Greg in this case, me, Greg Levine, would get a little thing called a character payment because that character is

is now being reused. It doesn't work for the pilot and the main, anyone who shows up in the first episode because your writer of the episode is already a creator of the show and they're getting a payment in another way. But it became a running bit on our show about who was getting character payments and what

whenever we decided, oh, we should bring that character back. So I'm going to be like, character payment for Norm, character payment for Dan. And would people sometimes try to get their characters in for the payment? No, because the payment is so nothing. Oh, yeah. It's not worth it. It's just this little thing. But it was like a funny little thing that we would talk about. And so here I am, and I've created Ben's parents. It's my episode where they're attached to my name. And I was like, oh, well, they're probably going to show up at least one more time for the wedding. Yeah.

Ben's parents will show up and a little spoiler for a few episodes from now, they do not show up. You know, listen, right now, I'm going to give you 20 bucks. Do you know what character has been my character payment? In the episode that Brian Rowe and I did, The Bubble, there's a woman who accosts Ron in the circular desk that she's in and she runs around talking to him. That woman has shown up

multiple public forums. That's my character payment, not, you know, one of your series regular's parents. Do you get residuals for those character payments? No, no. You know how you get a residual for, you know, if you're in an episode or whatever. I don't think it's a residual. It's just a one payment. Yeah, I think so. Oh, that's great. Okay, let's end our episode with our last little bit of synopsis.

In the tag, Ron checks in on Tom, who has been hard at work all night and is finally ready to present Ron with his new business idea,

Rent the swag. But Ron stops Tom before he can even begin telling him that getting rid of John Ralphio is all the proof he needs to see that Tom is serious about his idea and that he is ready to invest. So, Jim, we haven't spent a ton of time in our episode today talking about this great storyline, but it is chock full of so many fun John Ralphio moments. And frankly, Aziz and Tom has so many fun

fun things where he stands up to his best friend. There's so much growth for him in this episode. I mean, the episode starts with a classic Tom presentation and the way we've seen him do, you know, know your boo and all these other things. Yeah.

Or snake hole lounge investing. And also, just from my perspective, when Tom and Jean-Moralfi would be together, I would see them as actors on the side coming up with those bits with the handshakes and the clicks and all the crazy stuff they did. So in their presentation that they did to April and Andy, was that, did you guys write those words? Did they kind of, because I know Ben can go crazy with the improv. No, a lot of it is in the script, but I think the flair and the extra is just performance. Like I think Ben,

Schwartz doing like the making the dollars like rain. I think that was a creation of his or it was a discovery on set. But I will say there's a thing in my draft that it stayed all the way to the shooting draft where you see Jean-Ralphio put like a scarf around his neck in like a little like whatever way. And, you know, these are things I now know about writing and production that I didn't know at the time. Like you, obviously you shoot things many times and that's

scenes that you watch in episodes are like, you know, these frankensteins of little bits from different things. But things have to match. It's one of the reasons why it was always so hard also, I think, whenever a character was smoking in a scene because smoke doesn't always match when you cut, you know, back and forth between your takes. The length of the cigarette because they've been smoking. Yeah, right. The scarf had to match each time. And these are like, this is just a scarf he was like wrapping around his head in this like showy way. And it was like never matching him.

And I remember it was like, why are we doing the scarf thing? And I remember thinking, I don't know. I don't know why we're doing the scarf thing. I wrote it and I thought it'd be funny and it was stuck. And I'm like, I don't know why we're doing it. I'm not married to it, but we're doing a scarf. Yeah. And did you love being on set that whole week with us? Like, was that fun for you? Yes. Yes. It's fun. It's, it's fun. There are stories about writers dreading going to set. We loved going to set. I loved going down. I always made it a,

time during one of my breaks every day when the other assistant was writing and taking notes to always come down just to kind of also remind myself like, oh yeah, we're making this and this is fun. And this is a dream come true kind of feeling. I loved it. And I would just want to share one last little story if I may, which was

When you're the writer of the episode, you're there and you're there to help make sure the episode goes the way you need it to. So when you wind up in the edit, you have everything you need. And you got the version of takes that you know because you're tracking the series. You know the six or eight episodes that are coming up after that. You know things you need to plan. All that to say is,

My very first day on set, it was the courtyard scene with Leslie and Anne and Ben. And because it was my first episode, Norm Hiscock spent the week on set with me, which was awesome. I got to learn so much from him. And there was just a few lines that weren't working.

And they were getting flummoxed. And like, what are we going to do? And they called for someone to come in. And I looked at Norm to be like, are you going to go in? Kind of look. And he's like, that's you.

Yikes. Right? It's like, I remember being like, can you come with me? But I didn't. I just went and I was like, you know, just thrown in. And obviously Amy and Adam and Rashid are awesome, but they're also professionals and we're trying to, everyone's trying to get this done. And I had to be a professional.

And it still gives me the sweats to think about it. It was... But did it work? You get through it because it's the thing where like, the way we started this conversation, you kind of have to have faith that the thing you know in your heart you can do, the thing you know you've wanted to do, you can do. And so you kind of just...

figured my way through it. And they weren't all great jokes or all great suggestions, but we got through it and I got this fun little episode. That's awesome. Because also you're walking out now, it's Amy Poehler, you know, she's

brilliant and a writer and on her own. But what's fun is when I would see that happening on set, everybody could pitch. You know what I mean? So yes, it's on you because you are the writer. You should be coming up with stuff. But also, I'm sure Amy pitched ideas. Of course. And Adam and Rashida because it's just nature of what we did. Of course. And in fact, there's a thing where the phrase unity quilt, I think it said like 15, 17 times in this whole episode.

And a lot of them are by Leslie. And I think there was a time when Amy even was like, I feel like I'm saying Unity Quilt like almost every other line. And we had to be like, that's kind of...

Yeah.

And Tom is really explaining to him, like, you got to do stuff and then you can ball later. You know, like, and that really actually resonated with John Ralphio shockingly. Yes, yes. And he allows that to sink in. He goes, I'll give you 10 minutes. Yeah. Like, of course, then he ended up apparently staying longer. Right. But he went back to the party. Yes, he does. And made one very big mistake. He took a shrimp from Ron's plate. Right, he does. Yeah. There's a lot of things you can do in this world. Yes. But you are not going to take Ron Swanson's food. Yes. And the way...

Ron grabs his wrist. You hear a little bit of like a... Something snap. I wonder, was that put in? That was put in, yeah. That is brilliant. Yeah. It's such a great moment. There was a moment where I think in writing, someone was like, you have to put...

Nick and Jonathan are like in a scene together. You have to do something with these two characters. And so that's how that came about. Oh, that was so great. I'm going to bounce around a little just because we were just talking about Jean-Ralphio. So when he comes back after Ron has agreed he's going to back Tom, which is a great moment. He doesn't even need to see the presentation because it's all there. Then Jean-Ralphio walks in. Of course,

Ron's face immediately falls. And Jean-Marie, Tommy T, you just missed the craziest of crazies. Clubs, gifts, girls, dancing, naked, mom, argument, police, fleeing the scene, hiding in a dumpster, coming here, crashing on your couch for a week. Technically, I'm home.

Yes, yes, yes. Whenever John Ralphio sings. Yes, I know. It's just, they're great moments. Yeah. When he talks about Mona Lisa.

You know, his sister. At one point, he goes, she's the worst. I'm jumping to episodes. But I just... I love that. Anyway, another great moment is when John Raphael and Tom are presenting their pitch to April and Andy. And it's just, you know, April's like, this is not going to work. It's not going to work. But Andy goes, it is the greatest thing I've ever seen in my entire life. April, no, it's terrible. Andy, it's terrible. Oh, I love you, baby. You're so smart. He's just...

I love that character. And of course, we talked about this, but Donna saying to Ben, Ben, you better watch yourself. Yes. Just the one liner. So good. That's all it needed to be. And that is some of my crap. Great crap. Here's some of my fun stuff from gifts, parties, and jobs. We have a unity quilt. I guess we'll call that a gift. Sure. Engagement party. Tom embarks on Rent-A-Swag. We got a gift.

You got a party. You got a job. We got gifts, parties, and jobs. Okay, Jim, final thoughts on the episode? MVP, what do you got? Wow, MVP. There's so much going on in this. Boy. Take your time, man. I am. People are parked in the driveways right now. Exactly. Waiting. Of course, Leslie almost always because there's so much going on with her. Adam with some of, you know, the way he had to deal with the parents. I thought that was, he did some great stuff.

You know, Tom had so much growth in this episode. Oh, boy, where are you going? I'm all over the place. Yes, you are. I really am. I mean, for me, I want to call out Adam. Yeah, no, it's valid. I mean, it's his parents. His stress is what a lot of this is built around. Yeah. And he has this talking head in the beginning that I think sets the stage when...

You know, he's talking about his parents don't get along, whatever. And it's complicated, but they got divorced. They hate each other. I guess it's not that complicated. And the way he delivered that. Which is true, it's not complicated. They just hate each other. But the way he delivered that is so funny because for him, it's life. It's complicated. This is my life. Yeah. I guess it's not that complicated. It's just two people really hate each other. Yeah. Well, Jim, we've come to the end. I can't believe it. Flew by, my friend. Flew by. It was so fun to talk about.

my episode, frankly. You know, but I love, believe me, normally I don't care what you think or say. No, I understand. No, in general, no, I love. Yeah, I've built my whole life around that. Exactly. No, I love hearing about how it's made, how, you know, what is the recipe and how it all comes together, how the batter's made. So I loved, this is actually one of my faves. Oh, great. Great. And thank you all for listening.

text this episode to your group chat give us five star reviews wherever you're listening from all of us here at Parks and Rec Collection goodbye from Pawnee bye bye now

Parks and Recollection is produced by me, Lisa Berm, and engineered by Joanna Samuel. The podcast is executive produced by Jeff Ross, Adam Sachs, Colin Anderson, and Nick Liao. Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brit Kahn are our talent bookers, along with assistance from Maddie Ogden. Our theme song is by Mouse Rat, a.k.a. Mark Rivers, with additional tracks composed by John Danek. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on Parks and Recollection.

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The Grimace Mug. The Hello Kitty keychain. Barbie herself. For a limited time, your favorite McDonald's collectibles filled with memories and magic are now on collectible cups. Get one of six when you order a collector's meal at McDonald's with your choice of a Big Mac or 10-piece McNuggets. Come get your cup while you still can. And participate at McDonald's for a limited time while supplies last.