Ben Schwartz: Woman of the Year (S2E17)
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Terms apply. Learn how to get more out of your experiences at AmericanExpress.com slash with Amex. Ben, you had a question for us.

Yes, my question, first of all, hi, how are you, Rob? How are you, Alan? Lovely to see both of you. So good to see you again. Really good to see you. And then my question was, what is this? What happens here, is my question, kind of. Yeah, so that's hard. It's hard to articulate, really. Here's what's great. I have a Harvard-educated partner. Okay.

So whenever a question is above my intellect, I just turn to the smart guy. Alan, what are we doing here? What is this? I mean, my degree was in biology. It bears no relevance to anything I've done in my life the last 20 years. It truly has no relevance. That's crazy. You have a biology major? That's what you graduated with? That's right. You can tell my work, right? Yeah, of course. Right towards the same.

It's the same stuff. Well, the answer is we start talking about an episode of Parks and Rec, and then we inevitably derail to something totally unrelated, and then shoot the shit to our friends. Perfect. So I think you could do that. You think you could do that? Yeah, that sounds fantastic, actually. Yeah.

I'm loving the tapestry behind you, by the way. So this is what you guys are seeing right now. You're seeing a little bit behind the music. This is where I record all my voiceover for my animated movies and shows. Wow. So I built this in my little, in my closet. And so this is like, this is supposed to be the soundproofness behind me. There's a carpet here.

Oh my God. That's what I talk into. Is this where Sonic was recorded? Both Sonics? No, Sonic is too... They wouldn't let me do the Sonic here, but DuckTales and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie and all the ADR for anything during COVID happened here. Sonic, they come in and put in a higher quality blanket behind you. Yeah, yeah. I have to go to Jim Carrey's house for Sonic. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. I don't know, man. I feel like I just, I feel like I'm looking at Abbey Road. I think I'm looking at where the real magic happens. I mean, you kind of, this is, I think Robbie and Nilda, this is exactly like Abbey Road. Yes. Yeah, I would say there's as much audio history in that room. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's certainly more relevant at this point. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Should we talk about the episode, Rob? Do you want to do a welcome at all? Yeah, who knows? Listen, welcome everybody. We're already getting down here. You know, today is a big day. We have Ben Schwartz with us, the legendary John Rolfio. I mean, need I say more? I know I don't have to. And we have a great episode we're talking about today. It's called Woman of the Year, and it was episode 17.

of season two which aired on march 4th 2010 was written by norm hiscock and directed by jason waller right that's right canadian legend norm hiscock kids in the hall he's he also saturday night live in king of the hill and he worked with greg on a billion he's uh helped show run uh the show i'm currently on called space force so greg this year he came on oh wow that's right

He was amazing. He's one of my favorites, man. He's one of my favorites. Huge story guy. Very sweet guy, too. He's got that sweet... The nicest person in the world. And Jason Walner is an incredible director. This is a good episode. Natalie Attire, Jason Walner directed the Borat sequel. Yeah, he

He wears a suit on set because he looks so young that people think he's a production assistant. So he told me very early on when I started directing, I was like, what do you do? He's like, well, I like to wear a suit because people think I'm too young to direct. So I wear a suit to set. So I was like, okay, that's good advice. Is that where you got the suit idea, Alan? Really? No, I was wearing that kind of before. So you know what? Jason doesn't get total credit for that. But yeah, that's when I used to wear what Polar would call soft blazers all the time. Yeah, that's a good phrase for it. A soft blazer. A kind jacket. Yeah.

it yes it's just like it's not too structured well let me go through the episode synopsis and then we could chat freely I'm curious to know if Ben how much of this you remember so get ready well I didn't know what this was Rob and I should have I should have contacted either of you so when I saw what the title of the episode was I was like oh I haven't seen these episodes in since they've aired this is great perfect

I watched this one literally 10 minutes ago, finished it 10 minutes ago, so I know exactly what it's about. Oh, it's very fresh. But could never in 100 years have told you what it was until then. But now everything is like, I remember everything. It's really fresh. Well, there we go. So here's the synopsis. Very exciting. Most exciting part of the show. The Parks Department receives a letter from the Indiana Organization of Women.

Much to Leslie's horror, the award she's been waiting for has gone to Ron in recognition of Town Project's Leslie Primarily Developed.

Ron privately acknowledges the award as a ridiculous mistake. However, he uses the opportunity to mess with Leslie before recommending her as the award recipient later. It's revealed that a man was strategically chosen for the first time for marketing purposes. Frustrated with the politics of the awards, Ron publicly presents the award to Leslie, who tries to present it instead to Ron, who proceeds to present it back to Leslie. The next day's newspaper proclaims Ron the winner, with Leslie and Ron later deciding that the award is meaningless anyway.

The plaque is thrown into a wastebasket where Leslie later secretly retrieves it. In a subplot, I love this phrase, in a subplot. We don't use that that often. In a subplot, a B-story, Tom drops off a temporary liquor license renewal at the Snake Hole Lounge nightclub where the owner, Freddie, tells him they're seeking investors who can buy a share for $10,000. Tom reveals part ownership in a nightclub is a longtime dream of his and seeks partnership with

from his fast-talking friend, the legend, Jean-Ralphio, played by Ben Schwartz, who contributes, but Tom is still in need of one more thousand dollars to seal the deal. Tom seeks further help from his co-workers. Donna expresses an interest, but decides against it when she meets Jean-Ralphio and hates his guts. Meanwhile, when Andy's bandmate Burleigh tells Andy he can no longer live with him, April helps Andy look for an apartment they find one near her house.

prompting a smitten April to note that they can carpool to work together. But when Andy learns Tom needs $1,000, he forgoes the apartment and gives Tom the money. In the episode's final scene, Tom is shown enjoying his nightclub part ownership until he learns Donna has bought three shares herself. That's the tag. We even did the tag in the synopsis. Jesus. That's the episode. The episode's over now. The podcast episode's over now. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in. See you next week. I hope you enjoyed it as much as we all did. Parks and Recollection is produced by

Rob, I don't know if you were in the show yet for this one, were you? No, and that's what's been really fun for me, actually, is to do these episodes leading up to my appearance in Parks and Rec, because I'm really just an audience member. I mean, I have no dog in the fight. I wasn't there, didn't know anything about it. So I get to comment on the episodes as just as a fan, and it's super, super fun. And also watching these episodes, I get to go, oh, that's where that had its, you know, origin. Yeah.

Right. I wanted to ask Ben while we have him. Oh, yeah, because I'm heading out in like two minutes. After the synopsis, we've got about one minute left in the episode. Like, I don't know. I want to talk to you about like how, what you were doing when you started doing this character. What you were thinking. Yeah, what was it?

Because I know the lines were crazy. I think Harris Whittles wrote a lot of the lines. I remember we were writing all this shit kind of as a room, but we were excited about casting you. We always wanted to cast you. When you came to set and were reading the lines, what was going through your mind building this character? Well, I'll tell you the way that I got it was that I had a meeting with Katie Dippold. Oh, no. I had these shorts that I did for ESPN where I interviewed athletes.

long time ago and Mike Schur saw it and then he had a meeting with me, Harris Whittles and Katie Dippold when Katie was still on the staff and

And he said, hey, and they were interviewing me about the role of Amy's police boyfriend. Do you remember that role? Yes. Officer Dave. Yes, Officer Dave. And so we did it. We had a good time. They're like, you're just too young for this. But I remember what Mike said. He goes, think about the show like The Simpsons. You know, there's all these different characters that, you know, are around the town and we'll get to meet. So hopefully someone will pop up. And then the behind the scenes part of this is that...

someone had emailed my agent being like, hey, we have this role for Ben if he's interested in, and nobody ever told me. And then the assistant at the desk passed on the role for me without even telling me that it came through, which is like the scariest thing in the world because this role ended up being such a huge deal for me.

and then i didn't even know about it and then katie dippled email me she's like oh i'm so bummed you're not joining us i was like what are you talking about joining you for what she goes parks we just found out you passed i go what are you crazy whatever it is i'll do it nobody ever told me and so they said okay and then i emailed uh and i guess someone was like subbing in at a desk for a day and made a mistake somehow and then i just i literally told katie i was like i don't care what it is do whatever it is whatever it is i'll do it of course and she's like okay great and so then um

I went in, and the first time I kind of read it in front of anybody was when I did that first scene, the interview with me and Ron Swanson. And I did it once in rehearsal, and then Mike sure came up to me in my ear and says, he'll be coming back. And then he ran up to the writer's room to write the next episode. And it was the best feeling in the world. A legend was born. But no, I remember that story distinctly, and it drove me crazy.

wild to think about it. Do you know that someone passed on me? Yes, because we later talked about it and because you became such a huge part of the show and we were saying, oh my God, this is why actors get so paranoid about stuff because if we didn't happen to know you, because obviously you knew Katie and Harris and I think we had met already and you were around UCB. We all were friendly with you, but if we hadn't known you and were on an email text basis with you, etc.,

you would never have known. We straight offered you the part. Dude, I would love to. So I've never heard your side of the story at all. But what was said, like I didn't know anything. All I know is when Katie emailed me, I would love to find out. And I've told that story maybe once in my life because I'm afraid of embarrassing whoever did it. Yeah. But whoever did it, I'm sure. You should murder whoever did it.

Well, it all worked out well, but we were kind of like, wait. So what happened on your side? You guys offered me the role. You guys knew you were going out to me, and then what did you hear back? Yes. We offered you the role. This was one of the two weirdest moments in Parks' history in casting, I think, was offering you the role and then knowing again that you were excited about the role. You'd already met with us. You were friendly with us. Yeah, I told Mike I'd do whatever he wants. Exactly. And then it's like...

I remember, I don't know if it was Mike or somebody, but someone came back through and was like, yeah, Ben Schwartz passed on this role. And we were like, what? We couldn't, like, it's not like we couldn't believe it because like, oh, maybe he has another show or something. But we all were like, we should reach out to him and just see what's going on because it

it's possible. We just want to preserve the scintilla of a hope that there was possible there was a miscommunication and that's what it was. And it was like, you appeared in how many episodes? 20, 30, who knows how many episodes? It was literally that email, right? That's like, Rob, is that not the actor's nightmare? That's the nightmare. My blood is boiling.

Literally, my blood is boiling right now. By the way, I said that was one of the two weirdest moments in casting history. The second was when we straight offered Werner Herzog to play a part in Parks, and he immediately accepted. So those were the two ends of the spectrum. That's right.

Mike walking back in the room and said, Werner Herzog's in. We're like, what? We offered to him almost as a joke because we knew he would pass. He said yes. Schwartz said no originally. I can't believe that. And I can't believe someone passed on my behalf without telling me I was offered the role. It was such an insane thing that I never really talked about it because I was like, wait, this can't happen. I assume that it was the assistant that was covering the desk that said something. I don't know what. And by the way, I don't think I was attached to a show. And even if I was, it was a guest star, so I could have done it.

So it was all very, it made me very sad. And then I hate confrontation, so I didn't do anything about it. Your career ended up being great, so it didn't matter. It didn't matter. Thank God it happened. But you're right. If I didn't know you guys, I never would have gotten the email being like, are you sure? I'm like, are you sure about what? You passed. Like, passed on what? What are you talking about? Whatever it is, I'm in. And she's like, oh, great. And that was it. And then I came to work like two days later.

I mean, we're all lucky that it happened because it was, to me, it was a unique matching of actor to character that is almost irreproducible. But I have a question for you guys because I wasn't there for the cooking up of all of it. Like how, and you can see it in these two episodes you've been in now so far. The first one, the hair is not there yet. The hair has not arrived. It will be arriving. And I

I know. And I when we talked about the first episode, which Katie wrote the when we had Katie on the show and she was great. You hadn't discovered your John Raphael signature singing of dialogue yet. That makes its appearance in this episode and made me super happy because I felt like John, he is he has arrived.

Can I tell you also, the first time I met Rob was, it was on set, and obviously, I'm sure everybody says something like, come on, but like, I've seen Rob my entire life. Rob is a part of cinema history. When, if you're someone my age, you've watched Rob literally your whole life growing up, and he's always like, he's always an incredible actor, but also, you know, handsome and lovely and amazing. And so, I met him, and there's a little bit of nerves when you meet someone like that, because when you see them, you see the version of them from movies instead of like them as a human. And Rob, there's no way you remember, but...

uh, it was a couple episodes in from whatever. And I met him and I go, Hey man, I'm, I'm such a big fan. He goes, Oh my God, my kids love you. And I was like, I said, really? He goes, they, they, your character on the show is one of their favorites. They go crazy. And it made me like,

any anxiety I had kind of went away because I feel like I already got approval from someone in that family. So like, and it was very relaxing and it gave me confidence to like go even crazier. Cause like if you watch John Ralphio at the beginning, he's kind of like douchey and then slowly, like slowly becomes a cartoon character. Yeah.

So it's like me trying out riskier things and crazier things and Mike being like, sure. Yeah. Keep going. Yeah. Okay. So it was like, yeah, but that sing-songy part, Rob, was in that episode, it said the dialogue and then in brackets, it said sing-songy. So there's no like- So it did say it in the writing. That's so interesting. It just says sing-songy and then I kind of like decided what that meant. And then it went well and then all of a sudden, every script had a sing-songy in it.

Yeah, we took that ball and ran with it. This one's I am flush with cash. Which is the one, if I ever go to bars, that's the one I hear more than anything. Is that the one? Oh, man. Flush with cash and I got run over by a Lexus, I hear a lot. Got run over by a Lexus? That's got a real catch to it. Technically, I'm homeless. Technically, I'm homeless is a big one. Wait, so when you guys wrote the character, this is amazing for me because I've never asked it. I never learned anything about my character. What was the...

How did you guys... How did it even form? And then how deep into it were you guys like, oh, Ben should play that? There were a couple things. First of all... This is exciting for me, Alan. I never got to... I don't even know how to read this. Yeah, I don't think we've ever talked about it. It's...

It all is sort of building on itself, right? So it's like at the beginning, it was like, well, it would be nice for Tom to have like a friend, right? Like literally started like, okay, he brings this guy in in that interview episode where Ron is interviewing for assistance. He ends up hiring April. But having written that scene, so basically Katie was saying, we wrote a scene for this Jean-Ralphio character, the character that would be known as Jean-Ralphio. It was a side pod with Katie Dippold and Harris Whittles, who were friends of yours, and he

you know, it was a kind of this, like they went off and started writing this one scene and obviously came back to the room after that. But I do believe, and Katie puts it this way,

Harris was like, hold on a second, took over the keyboard, started typing words. And she said, like, the beautiful mind music played. And it was like, he was like, just let me like it was as if he was possessed by the spirit of this character, Jean-Ralphio, and started writing all this nonsense, which, you know, Harris is so good. You know, he was so good at writing things.

just really sort of fucking whimsical, you know, like fun, funny jokes, just pure comedy. And the other aspect from the sort of the story structure character world building side was one thing that we've talked about, which is you have Tom, who's this kind of silly character. And like, in a lot of ways, he's very selfish and very superficial. But what if,

What if, as in Frasier, you know, in Frasier, he's kind of like, you know, urbane and a little bit of feet and he has a brother who's more so. He has Niles. So what if Tom had a Niles who was more selfish and more superficial and more of an idiot than Tom? You might like Tom by comparison. So we basically like put all those ingredients into the blender and then like you were saying, you

You can see it in these early episodes. It's already funny, right? Those lines are funny. You're doing a great job. But then almost like a Pokemon evolving, like a Pikachu evolving into a Raichu. You'll see later episodes of Jean-Ralph. By the end, you're wearing like fluorescent pink. You're wearing two ankle bracelets. Your hair is six feet tall. It's really, it's so, so this was the beginning, but those were kind of the ingredients. I love hearing that. There was a, there was a beat later on when we were really going for it, where Mike Schur said, Hey, I don't,

I think you should just pop up. You should never enter a room. You should just pop up out of nowhere. And I'm sure there... I think there's a scene with Rob and Nick where I literally just pop up from behind in between both of you guys. It's later on. And I remember just like this sitting and then they'd say, wait for you guys to say your lines. And I'd literally just pop up and then...

in the real human version it would have to be that neither rob nor nick looked but like down for like that whole 30 seconds i was just waiting for the perfect time to pop up and say something that's the stuff that i that we've discovered in going through the show because i i just love that no one did that reality check on that like that mike's into you know pop up and nobody wait a minute so boy if he pops up what are we saying we're saying what he was sitting here and

They didn't cheer. Well, that wouldn't be real. Who cares? It's like, just be funny. We started really, you know, look, the Saperstein family, everyone involved with John Rialfio, Mona Lisa, and of course, Henry Winkler as well. Like, we kind of were like, you know what? We're real enough with a lot of the show. This stuff is going to be funny. This one is just going to be funny. And we also like, season one, Greg Daniels always come in and be like, you know, in the office, it's like we always do small,

real relatable comedy right grounded like really and then later on seasons where literally people are appearing out of nowhere we're like remember small real relatable this is a documentary about a small town government in midwestern indiana right this is like this and then it was like yeah something really wild happening

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Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash parks. That's linkedin.com slash parks to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. You know, I'm obsessed with hair, men's hair. I didn't know that. Yeah, I'm very obsessed with men's hair. Really? Oh, yes. I could do a podcast about that. Who's your top person? Who's your person? Like this is, if I could have anybody's hair, it would be this human being. Boy.

Yeah, it might take some time. Well, you know what? I don't mean to be a dick, but really the way it works is I'm more worried about hair that I don't want. Oh, very interesting. Yeah. It's juicier. Yeah. And I look at people who, like, I'm going to go, you're...

losing your hair and you're in the business. Rob was just like, fix it, fix it, man. You're on camera. Get the, get them plugs, get them plugs. When I came to LA for the first time. So when I was in New York, I would get, you know, like shitty haircuts. Then when I came to LA, I didn't have someone to cut my hair. There wasn't anybody to cut my hair. Cause I didn't know anybody in LA yet.

And I was auditioning and auditioning and I got a role for a Mitch Hurwitz pilot. Mitch Hurwitz's pilot after Arrested and it was me, Richard Dreyfuss and Mary Steenburgen, Jason Biggs and it was going to be this great thing. And

And I go, I am so sorry my hair looks like this. I will get it cut the second we film. And he goes, oh, no, you will not. And I go, I'm sorry? He goes, you will not cut that hair. And I said, oh. He goes, that's like, it's a great character trait for things. I said, okay. And then I started noticing, only when I came to LA and had a lot of hair, that men would come up to me and be like, whoa, man, that's a lot of hair.

look at that dude. That's incredible. And like men would be so interested in the, the, like the hair. It's a big thing in LA, I guess. Hair in New York and nobody cared. Because you're all wearing berets and pork pie hats. Oh, that's true. We're all like holding baguettes and wearing berets. Exactly. Right. But no, but your hair, but I could, that you answered my question. Cause my thing was like, how does he work? Other than as crazy John Ralphio, if his hair is 17 feet tall, your real hair.

It is my real hair. It's never not my hair. They like made it bigger. The second we realized that they liked it being big, then anytime I went in, we were like, let's do something insane with it. So oftentimes when I did this show, I was doing a different show at the same time. It was like either Undercovers or House of Lies. And if I knew I was filming this, I just would like not cut my hair for as long as I could before filming.

and then afterwards I let the other show cut it. But it became like a fun thing where like the hair team, which was amazing, I was like, do whatever you want, and they would just go crazy. So each one would be like a different style. It was great. Yes.

I remember it was always disappointing when he had to shoot another show right before. So it's like, ah, it's not that long today. I know. I agree. It's like J.J. Abrams needed him today. He needed to cut it. It was a bummer. When does Mona Lisa make her first appearance? That's not for a while, right? For a while, right? Yeah. I think it was just me for a while. And then I don't know where the idea came with what happens if John... I mean, the idea that already it's like...

uh, what you're saying, like Tom has someone that's, you know, a little bit crazier than he is. Like when does the, when did the idea in the writing room be like, but what if this person had a family? Yes. That's, uh, Greg Levine is saying, uh, season five, episode 16. Yeah. That's, uh, that is, that is deep into the show. That's beyond the point where like, this needs to any, any, any resemblance to reality. We're like, yeah, fuck it. Hi, Greg. Cause,

Guys, I have to tell you, as I've been prepping these episodes with Schulte, I've been going through old scripts and old files on my computer. And I thought it'd be so fun to go through the script, the shooting draft of the script to see what was intended, what was written, and then what Ben came up with on set.

And so there's this one moment, it's around five minutes into the episode. It's when John Raphael arrives at the parks department. Tom says, Hey, and in the episode, as it airs, John Raphael's line is big T what to do nephew. Sorry, Ben, I'm not as good as you in, in the script.

John Ralphio calls Tom teabag, which is great. And then it says they do a hip hop handshake hug, which is so funny to me that the hip hop handshake hug action line is what turned into that amazing, just brushing each other's shoulders moment between Tom and John Ralphio.

Yeah. This is an example of when you have funny actors. And of course we're talking about disease and Ben Schwartz, two of the funniest guys in the world. Like you have that sort of ability to just let them go and let them improv. And this was, you know, in the, in the run of the show, we, we had loosened up to that point where people would riff and, and, and totally make up different nicknames. And so, yeah, tea bag is fine, but then it was more fun for him to say, big T what to do nephew. And this, you know,

And this is kind of the beginning of him running his mouth and just being a motor mouth and just saying too many lines and fitting stuff in and rhyming and all that stuff, singing. And when you allow your actors to get that freedom on stage, it really just improves the show. Yeah. Do you remember when I...

You made that really sweet birthday video for my son. I had you. Oh, yeah. I had you make a break. Like I said, they love John Ralphio. They're they're so excited that we're talking again today. They're grown men now. But like the single best thing I could have gotten them, I did. And that was a.

I filmed me on the set going, hey, John Owen, it's your dad. And this is a birthday video. I just want to say how much I love you. And I went on for like 30 seconds and then showed up from below the frame. John Ralphio. Was I dressed as? I was probably dressed as John Ralphio too. Yeah, it was. I do remember doing that. It was the first episode that Mona Lisa was in, which she also explained.

I think boy-o-yo-ings into the frame as well. I hope so. I mean, that's a perfect phrase for what we do into the frame. We straight up boy-o-yo-ing into the frame. Boy-o-yo-ing. And then, of course, you get the amazing opportunity to have Henry Winkler as your father. And I mean...

It's the best. Isn't it the best? Oh, it's the coolest thing in the world. And also, it's like, I remember I went there. First of all, it's the Fonz, man. It's crazy. It's the Fonz. I remember telling my parents. My parents flipped out. And so I went to set. I met him and I had back pain. And

and i was like yeah i hurt my back he's like where does it hurt and he's like here and he like cracked my back and made it feel better and i was like are you kidding me just like the jukebox how he like hits the jukebox that's what i was gonna say he basically did that to you yeah jukebox your back yeah it was incredible and i remember being and then we were there's a great uh him and i became like friends and i love him still we talk still and i remember we were walking through uh

Radford and a person came up to him and goes I'm so sorry Henry I hate to interrupt you nicest guy in the world by the way he's truly the nicest person in the world he goes I'm so sorry Henry but I came to one of your happy day shows it was this season and it meant and he goes and you talked to me that day and he goes stop

I remember you were great. We had a conversation about, and he remembered it. And the guy almost like cried. He's like, really? He's like, yes, I hope your family's doing well. And like this, he gave this guy such an incredible experience. And he was like so happy and thankful. And, um,

But he was the best. And for me to improvise around him, because Parks let me really kind of go nuts, was very exciting because he wasn't quite as used to people going way off script like that. And he found it very exciting and he didn't quite know. It was very, very, very fun. It was like a little kid.

He was the best. I got to do a lot of work with the three of you, I'm remembering. And this is episodes way in advance. Yeah. And he is the nice, he without a doubt might be the nicest man in show business. He truly is. There's a scene where it was you and Rashida and me and him. And I was, we were like dressed in the same pajamas. I remember that really well. Yeah, there's a notion. There's a not so subtle notion that you guys might sleep in the same bed.

Absolutely. And I'm downloading pornography or something like that by mistake. That's exactly the scene. Rob, can I ask you a question? Am I allowed to do that on this podcast? You remember how I asked what this podcast is? Is this part of the podcast? Yeah, it's all part of the podcast. You came from something like West Wing where you had to be word perfect, correct? Like, I mean, you can't say, and tell me if this is wrong because this is just lore from talking to Schiff, but you can't say I'm. If it's I am, you have to say I am, correct? Absolutely. If you say...

ah and it's um then you're going again really yep like do they stop halfway through the line and say no no stop or they wait to the scene no they wait to the they wait till the scene is done and then someone comes up with every everything circled in ink that you said wrong this would be that was what they have someone whose sole job sole job is to do that i mean it's making me anxious

even talking to you about it because then I would just be worrying about memorizing the words as opposed to what I'm saying. But okay, so my question, I have a bunch of questions about Westman that I'll ask you later. My question is going from a show like that to a show like this where there is leniency, we always do the words, always do the words, but there is leniency afterwards and there's leniency within the words.

what's in it is, is the experience is one more exciting for you is one, like one fit you better. What is your experience going from one to the other? Cause those are pretty big extremes. Yeah. Well, and that's the fun of it is, and that's what, what you always are trying to figure out. What is this, what satisfies you in your job? Right. And for me, that,

the satisfaction is, is to be able to have both of those experiences because they are so diametrically opposed and to feel like you can be facile and do both. I, I, um, I remember talking to, um, I feel like it was Jason Bateman and he was potentially going to do the newsroom. And he asked me, he said, I heard Aaron Sorkin is like letter perfect. And by the way, Aaron had won the Academy Award that night. This is the after party. Yeah.

And I go, yeah, no, you have to do exactly as it's written. He goes, well, but what about like, you know, if you had your own take on it or you felt like, I was like, nope. He goes, yeah, no, no, I understand. But what about if you felt like you had something of your own experience or maybe it didn't fit in your mouth and you wanted, I was like, nope. And he said, well, I don't know if I could do that. I go, look, you have to be, you have to take pleasure in execution.

Like you have to get off on running the perfect route as a receiver. Oh, run that route. And the more succinct and perfect, you don't make your route up. You don't go out and get open. You know, it's like just we're just playground. I'm going to go and you get. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not it. It's you're going to it's a button hook. It's five step drop. And it's all timing plays. And you have to be able to one of those people gets off on that.

and who understands that there's a beauty in it. And then the other part of it is, it's one thing to have to be letter perfect for a hack, and it's another thing to be letter perfect to a genius. Sorkin, by the way, has his fingerprints all over this episode, not just this podcast episode. Rashida is not in this episode because she was filming with Social Network. Oh, wow. With Sorkin, yeah, with Sorkin, the Sorkin Fincher joint. So that's why she's not in this one, which is wild to think about.

That was concurrent, man. That was concurrent. What about movements, Rob? Were you allowed to move? Or they told you exactly where to be for every single line? No, no. There was none of that. He didn't... Aaron and... They're not that. It's like... So in this thing, I think you should walk up to the window when you say there's none of that. That... And by the way, there's... I don't want this to be interpreted that somehow...

Aaron and people who work like Aaron, he's not alone. David Mamet's the same way. Neil Simon was the same way. People who come from the theater traditionally are more like that. They love actors and they want inspiration from actors. But the words are the words. And you are there to service the words. So to come to Parks where, you know, like you said, we always did the script. We didn't make this up. These are Alan Yang and all these amazing writers. The scripts are amazing. They're amazing. There's no need to improve them.

Zero need to improve them. But we had the opportunity to do that. And it was and that was celebrated. And for me, it just felt so freeing and just so much fun. I loved I love doing both. But the other I can only do with people who are absolutely brilliant writers.

Right. And by the way, brilliant actors as well. That show obviously is one of the best shows of all time, but it's like if you don't have a shift and all the people that you guys had were the best actors in the universe. And we had people come in who are great actors, some of whom who've won Academy Awards and just got steamrolled.

By the West Wing experience. Makes me very anxious. Makes for an incredible product. Makes for an incredible product and a great show. Oh, thank you. Anyway, Parks and Rec. Sorry, I always wanted to know. I never got to talk to Rob about West Wing, so this is very exciting. No, I like that, man. But Ben, you know that Mike Schur will tell you that Parks and Rec is the comedy version of the West Wing. Like, if the drama takes place in the West Wing,

then where would the comedy take place? Well, in the parks and rec to park. Yes. I remember hearing that. Yeah. They're sort of cousins in that way. Right. Instead of the nuclear codes or whatever, it's like there's a possum on a golf course. That's right. Exactly. That's what you do. I do remember when we were doing parks, one of the biggest things I would tell people is that it's like, we have like a hall of fame writing staff. And I oftentimes, just because I write as well, it's like, you think about the

the staffs that you have for parks, it's like Alan and Harris and Norm and Dippled and Chelsea Peretti. And it's like, there's so many incredible human beings that were on the staff that

That it's like, it's crazy. It's like an all-star team. It's like the, you know, it's like the men's a-lipping team from 92, Alan. Yeah, no Chris Middleton, but yeah. No, I look back and it's the same thing, right? I look back, it's like, oh my God, like, look, Norm is running Space Force and Norm was on this show, right? Like you were saying, Dan Gore was on this show. Like all these people who became showrunners, became huge movie writers, right?

they're all here and and i think i think this episode is like you know you watch it back and it just totally holds up story-wise it's so good there's a thing we were talking about like you know the joke around comedy writers like oh are you a joke person a story person and norm was always a story person in the room because like he just had an impeccable sense of and this is really this is this is not trivial it's hard to do to have that compass of when a story works and to figure out

if the characters are behaving in character and if the ending is satisfying and all that stuff. And that this episode is really like that because in that talking head that starts this episode with Ron saying, you know, like he immediately says, I don't care about this award. Like I know I won this and it's dumb. And like, I'm just going to let her kind of dangle in the wind because Leslie cares about awards too much. That's the whole episode.

You get that in minute two and you understand what's happening and you don't, you're not mad at either party. You understand that Leslie's being silly and you understand that Ron loves her ultimately and is going to do the right thing. And that sets up all the comedy. And then I was, I was, I was admiring the twists and turns. Let me ask you a question. Cause you, you, you were talking about the first thing that, that I wrote in my notes. It, cause it's very, very, it's a very specific thing.

a thing to immediately reveal to the, let the audience in on what the plan is. There's, there are a lot of versions where you don't until the end, then you're like, Oh my God. Oh, or maybe you do it in the middle. So you kind of have the best of both worlds maybe, but the, the, that you guys forfeited the, that reveal was clearly specific. And my guess was it was, we were just worried that,

Unless the audience knows immediately why Ron's doing it, they're not going to like him. Was that the thinking? Yes. There were, believe me, tons of arguments in the writer's room, but it was like, if you don't know the truth, Ron's just acting like a dick. And you're like, oh, I don't know why he's doing that. Because he...

part of the comedy is him taking glee in it, right? Part of the comedy is him sort of smiling like a cat who ate a canary, right? That Nick Offerman smile. And so I think what ended up being, you know, why we were okay with it was there were a couple twists later on in the episode, right? The lady from the organization comes in, that's a twist. And then when he's up

there at the podium again it's another twist because Ron just gives the award to Leslie so that's another twist there's an incredible beat in that and I think that the idea that you sell it early you tell the audience what they're in on early allows you for a beat of like when Swanson gets his photo taken which as a character he never would do that and if you didn't warn the audience for him they'd be like what is going on yeah but instead you're so excited and he's like this I mean I just watched this episode 10 minutes ago he's like and the

Should I hold on to the pot? And it's like you relish knowing that he is really a good guy and just messing with her in the time. One thing I want to talk about is because the theme of this is awards and the theme of this that is hammered and hammered and hammered some more is the words don't mean anything. And I love the, and I'm going to start using this. I'm not really into institutional gratification.

That is fucking institutional gratification is the most brilliant thing I've ever heard of. I've never heard it used as a euphemism for ridiculous awards, but I'm going to start co-opting the phrase. But I do seem to remember many times that the show was not nominated. And I'll do you one better that Amy Poehler never sometimes just never was nominated, just not.

You're like, okay, so there are seven leading ladies in comedy better than Amy Poehler as Leslie Knope? Really? Is that true? Did she not get nominated? Oh, yeah. There were years where she didn't get nominated. Definitely years where she didn't even get nominated. She definitely never won, but absolutely. That's insane. Is that true? Yes. Do you guys remember this? At a certain point, I think Poehler and Jon Hamm hosted a party that was like...

Emmy losers party because they would lose the Emmy every year. It was just like a fun, like, it was just like a fun thing they were joking about. Did the show get nominated, Alan, or no? The show only started getting nominated later on in the run. So I do remember going season, God, I want to say three or four. It started getting nominated. Never won, but

And never got nominated like frequently, right? It was never like a sweep, but the show started getting nominated later in the run. I remember people would ask me like, oh, like now, because I feel like Netflix has made this thing such a bigger thing, but it's like now they're like, oh my God, how nervous were you like jumping into this? I was like, oh, when I got in there, nobody was watching the show.

Yeah, it was getting canceled every year. We literally got canceled every year. Every single year, Mike would be like, yeah, we're giving an ending where it could kind of get... We have no idea. And so it was never like, oh my goodness. Even when we were rolling and it was like people liked us, still nobody was watching. Every year, there's a chance it wasn't going to get picked up. So

I remember someone asked me that. I was like, oh, it was like, I was a little nervous for the first one just to figure it out. And then like, I'm surrounded by people I've seen. Like, I was an intern for UCB for ASCAP. So I saw Amy every Sunday doing the garbage and recycling for UCB when I first met her. Aubrey was younger than me at UCB when we were coming up. Katie, I improvise with Katie still. She does my improv show anytime I do it at Largo. It's like,

so I knew all these people and Aziz I knew so I knew all these people coming into it so it felt like it just felt like hanging out with my friends and then the more we did it and as you guys kept going the stories get a little bit more surreal in a way and all of a sudden it feels like a UCB type experience too where we're just like going there and having fun and it was one of my favorite things in the universe to do because it felt like I was just hanging out with my friends and

And then even beyond that, it was like, yeah, you could take some risks too. Like you'll have time to, we're going to do it as is. And then there'll be, I forget what fun run you guys would call it. It's like, all right, now do whatever you want. And then like, it was just so much fun and so freeing. And it was so quick. Sometimes I would film like,

undercovers in the morning, come to you guys for like two hours and then go back to undercovers. It was just like, you guys move so quick and you lit the room. So it wasn't like lighting the face like all my other shows that I do. So it was like so freeing and like you were on camera on every take. So it wasn't like-

So nobody was saving shit for like another take. We were all just going for it. So everybody was a hundred percent. Everybody was going for it. And everybody was so locked into what they would do with their character in that moment that if you give them the right words, which you guys did every time, it was like kind of let us fly a little bit. And it was, it was the, I mean, that show was,

I remember there was a season where people were like, it was time for renegotiations and stuff like that. Not for me. I was like a guest. I took literally whatever. Your agent was like, take whatever. You're the same agent who passed on it. Take whatever. Take the minimum. To be fair, it was never my agent. It was an assistant that was there. I love my agent. But I remember someone was like, it was like renegotiations. And I remember Offerman pulling someone aside and being like,

We are so lucky. Do you know how lucky we are right now? We all like each other. We're making great, like, it was such a beautiful speech that I got to be around when he was talking about it. And this is a gentleman who's been around for a long time and has had opportunities, but never like he was Ron Swanson, which is one of the best characters on television.

And so I loved hearing that. It's like, we're just so lucky. We're so lucky that we get to be a part of this. This does not happen often. You know what I mean? But it was, it was just, it was just the best. I had the best memories about that show. Making something good with people you like, right? I mean, that's the dream, man. That's the dream. It was like, and I remember, so even watching in this show, it's like, we were talking about building characters. Like in this episode, we,

we start to learn who Donna really is. Like, we were just learning about Jean-Ralphio. We're learning about Donna because there's that scene you do with her, and it's so funny when she turns against you. And then at the end of the episode, she reveals she's bought three shares or whatever. She's like, she's improbably wealthy, which I love. But do you remember shooting that scene? I mean, that has a lot. That's the flush with cash scene. I do. I do remember shooting that scene. I remember trying to make – I remember something that I started to do

as we went on is like I try to make the person next to me laugh like that was like because I feel like when you could see someone like and like if you get Offman to laugh he like laughs like a little baby and his like mustache moves because he doesn't want to laugh and so like

air like seeps through his like tightly his lips are so tight but like I used to love trying to make people laugh and so for Retta I was like we did that scene a couple times and then I started playing with it and getting like way and this is still like when John Raphael was kind of more of like a douche guy and like slowly didn't hasn't loosened up a little bit but this is like the first scene where you start to see him like loosen and I did it a couple different ways and I just kept trying to make her laugh like adding more shit and

And it was the best. That scene was so fun. And that was like when I started to be like, oh, we can play a little bit too. Because the first episode I did, it was just like, don't get fired. Just get through this and hopefully they'll let you do it again. And then they're like, oh, no, they like what you're doing. Keep doing it. I think there's a gag reel scene. I think you eventually make Red a laugh. Right? I think there's...

We cut together. We do a gag reel of the rap party every year. I think we may have cut together you improvising and adding on and on and on and finally right up breaking. I mean, Aziz would laugh too. By the way, Aziz would break all the time. Yes. It was fun to get Aziz to break. Yeah. It was the best.

Making anybody laugh was just the best. You know what I mean? And it's also so fun to be a guest star because I get to just come in and zap a quick scene and I'm fresh and can't wait. I'm so excited to be there. Right, right.

You know what I mean? And you guys have been filming every day, you know, many hours a day. And I get in there being like, hi, how are you? What was every day? You know what I mean? It's a very fun thing to just come in there, get a very silly scene in and then leave. I remember anytime it was over, I'd be like, oh, I got to leave? It's such like a bummer part.

That's also what people don't realize. If you're number one on the call sheet on a show, you're just shooting so much. You're shooting so much. As you go down, it's like, sometimes it's nice to be a guest star. It's nice to be number six on the call sheet. Shoot your days out and not be there all the time. Amy was always putting in the hours on the show. They both have their things. My version of John Ralphio was when I got to play Eddie Nero on Californication. It was very similar. It was like a

Big swing character, like that character could do no wrong in the sense that there wasn't anything too big. The character was a cartoon. It was basically a cartoon. And I got to waltz in, crush, have fun, do whatever. Everybody was excited to see the character come back. And then I'm gone. And then Duchovny is there 16 hours a day for 17 years. Yes. It's so fun.

It's like an incredibly – it's just lucky. It's just a very lucky, lucky thing. And I'm always impressed like whenever I'm in a show where I got heavy lifting or I'm one or two in the call sheet for a movie or something like that, then it's like I'm always impressed when an actor comes because there's something else to it where it's hard to come in. I remember I did this movie, Billy Crystal, and I'm in there every day of the shoot and we had an actress and she only had like two days or three days

And her first scene was in a live mall that was actually working. And it was a one shot up an escalator where we have this huge conversation. And I was like, it's so unfair because I've had 13 days to get loose and great. And I've worked every day and I'm in a rhythm now. And I know my character inside and out. And this is her first day and she has to figure out what she's doing. And there's a live mall going on. Uh,

Her name was Eloise and she crushed it. But I was like, you really have a respect for guest stars that can come in there and crush because you got to remember, oftentimes it's just someone coming in, not knowing anybody, not really knowing what their character is, not knowing where they belong in the group of everybody is. But Parks picked the best... If you think about the guest stars on Parks, it's... Insane. Insane. It's insane. Insane. And even like Perd Happily, who's one of my favorite actors in the entire show. Yes. Or like Mo Collins, who crushes. And then it's just...

And Paul, like you, there's so many incredible people and every, you guys put us all in a place, the writers and the actors and Mike put us in a place where you just felt comfortable immediately. So you didn't have to deal with the being nervous part. You were just ready to have fun immediately. Yep.

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We should do a town hall while we have Ben. Let's do it. Wait, is it town hall or is it town howl? This will be a town hall, I think, because it's not an audio one. But, you know, we usually pick a location for the town hall. I think because Ben's here, let's do it at the Entertainment 720 headquarters. Oh, for sure. Let's do it in that weird, wide-open white space that Roy Hibbert and Detlef Schrempf came to. Oh, my God. Roy Hibbert's favorite day of his life, he tells me. Yeah.

And he has like two kids. Oh, man. Talking to Roy about TV was... You wouldn't believe the shows he had. He's like, you ever seen Squidbillies? He was like an adult swim fan. It was very like... That was Roy Heber, one of the Indiana Pacers. Wait, what's the town hall? Oh, can I also say the...

You know, every night you're talking about that gag reel. There's one time where I was just on set and sometimes Mike would do this where there was a town hall. That's what it is, right? A town hall where everybody like speaks. Yeah. And so like they go, what about you? Go up there and just start complaining about whatever. Yeah.

And I did it and it was so, I never made the episode. It was so fun. And then they kept the camera on me when I was leaving. So I kept trying to leave, but I picked the role that Chris Pratt was in. And I just, the whole, for like no joke, like 120 seconds, which is so long. I tried to get around him and I would not leave. Like I kept the, he kept, was in my way and I just tried to get him and I just made him laugh. And it was like my favorite thing. And I wish that it exists somewhere, but never found it. Wait,

Can we summon John Raphael? Sure, what does he want to say? He just wants to say, um, do you want to go to the town hall? I think you do. Okay, here we go. Do you want to go to the town hall? I think you do.

All right. We're doing great. Rob's going to have you recording drops all night. But that has to be, guys, that has to be a sound board thing that we drop in as needed. We now own that. We now own that, Schwartz. We now own that.

All right, so what is this town hall? What happens here? Town hall is a question from a listener. Oh, great. A question from a listener. So we'll get right into it. The town hall question comes to us from Amber, and just as Amber from SoCal, so very broad range. Maybe she lives all over Southern California. The question is, was there ever an idea to create a bigger posse for Tom? Jean-Ralphie was great, but were there additional strange characters that got cut? Hmm.

Good question, Amber. I think the shortest answer is no, not really. I think what we ended up doing is expanding Jean-Ralphio's posse. So Jean-Ralphio. So Tom didn't get a posse. We were like, we like Jean-Ralphio. Like we, you know, obviously we gave him Henry Winkler, his dad, and also Jenny Slade playing Mona Lisa. I would also like to pivot from that to just favorite Jean-Ralphio moments. Like,

like one of my favorites, I don't know if you remember this one, uh, Schwartz, but it's basically like you apply for a job at this accounting place, I think. And you come in, you do the interview and you get rejected all in one shot. It was one take basically. So it's the tag of an episode. And it's something like you interview, it goes really poorly and you're like, Oh, I didn't get it. Yeah. It makes sense. Bye. It's like, I don't know if you

remember shooting that. It really made me laugh. It was one of my favorite things because I exit the same way that I literally exited the same door I entered, which was, I thought, such a funny specific where I enter. And by the way, I remember that scene because the woman is a guest star. She was great. She was right in front of me. And I literally do, I go through the entire office and I don't think I ever stopped talking. And

I talk at the beginning and everything's positive and I talk so much that he clearly knows he's made a mistake. And I remember we had to get it and the timing had to be perfect where I end my last sentence right before I get to the door. So like sometimes I would have to like

like rush like the other people to like move a little bit quicker and something. The timing of that was so difficult, but I love a one shot also because I love how real it all feels. I remember that. That was a great moment. And it was one of the first times ever that Mike Schur texted me and asked what I said in a scene years later. I don't know if you remember this, Al, but Mike called me or something and he's like, hey, what do you say

uh i i he thought i said like uh like dime or something like that i said i say ds like she's a like she's a 10 but i say it in spanish and nobody understood what i was saying and i was like i said ds and he's like what did you do what happened there and i said yes 10 he goes like oh yeah of course this also reminds me of the time where i've been doing the show a little bit and people started to really like my character and i would have done parks every up you know like and i and

Undercovers just ended and House of Lies hadn't started yet. I hadn't gotten it yet. So there's a chance I could have jumped on the show. And then someone had asked him like, what about like John Ralphio having a spinoff or John Ralphio? And he goes, I don't think anybody wants to see. I don't think anybody could take more of like 10 minutes. And I was like, he's right. He's like, what would happen? It would just be.

Was there ever any conversation of making me a full-time member or just it would make no sense? I think it was what you said, which is like we love it in the time we have allotted in the show, but we're afraid. It's almost like too much power. Too much power concentrated. It's like a nuclear weapon. Too much comedy power. Yeah, exactly, right? It has to be wisely used. So, yeah, it's like a heavy dosage medication.

like an upper or something. It would just be too much. The way he explained it was so funny. He's like, you couldn't take it. It's too much. You couldn't take it. If you had a spinoff, what are you going to follow? Like what, what, how are you going to follow it? There's no straight man. Yeah, exactly. You'd also like have to make it more normal. No one wants that. No one wants that. Jean-Ralph feels sad. Jean-Ralph feels like, oh, it's like, I'm not getting along with my brother or whatever. There is one line I snuck in that some people notice that when, uh,

Rob, you must have been there. We're leaving the snake hole lounge. Everybody's hammered off of that drink, off of that... Yes, snake juice. Yes. Oh, you definitely were in there because I remember in that scene, I had a scene with you and then I think Amy directed it or Amy wrote it. And I asked her, I said, hey, can I make up a rhyme about

Rob, like, because he's the only person we didn't make up a rhyme about. What about if I just, and she goes, yeah, definitely go for it. I forget if it was Dean or Amy, but I remember someone gave me the go ahead. So that's like the boss, the boss man thing, that rapper there. But at the very end of it, we're all in a car, smashed in a car. And Jim is on the roof.

tied up on the roof. And so the whole beat is like, and I forget if it was a mic pitch or I made it up or what happened, but we're there and everybody like, there's a big fart joke or some joke and everybody laughs. And the last thing I say right when it gets quiet is I'm so alone. Yes. It's you saying that. It's just an earnest moment of Jean-Ralphio, just not a joke, just saying I'm so alone. And then it ends. Very few people caught it. Yes. I don't know. I don't know if it was written. I,

I mean, Greg Levine would be able to know that somehow. But it was like... I remember thinking that was so funny that in this moment, he's with everybody and everybody's drunk. And for the first time, people like accepting him. And so he literally got so drunk that he says like, I'm so alone. And nobody fucking cares. Yeah. But I remember thinking that would be so funny.

I don't know if we did it once or twice, but... I remember it. I remember it. I remember when you did it because it made me laugh. I didn't laugh...

as Chris, but made Rob the actor laugh. And I'm almost certain you did it once and it was an improv and it made it in. It was fucking so odd and great. I have a very little video from Parks and Rec, very little, but I have a video of all of us in the car singing together and I like pan around the whole thing. And it's like one of the coolest videos of all time. Didn't we sing a song? Weren't we singing? Yes, we did. Yeah, we did. We were just- We sang some songs, some pop, some-

You know, one of the Z's special, some song I'd never heard of. It was the best. That show was, I mean, it's the best. You look back on some of the jobs. I mean, like Rob, your career has been pretty remarkable. It's like, I'm sure you look back at some jobs and you're just like, fuck man, we were so lucky. One tangent that is interesting. So I was on the show for four seasons.

by in the middle of the fourth season, we should always shot in the same soundstage, same stage at the Parks and Rec department, never left other than when we left, but we're there all the time. We shot the scene you're talking about in the car.

In the basement. Apparently there was, it turns out there was an entire soundstage below our soundstage that I never knew existed. And while we were shooting there, they shot an entire season of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia below us. And I never knew. Yeah.

I have shots of me dressed as John Ralphio at that bar and I sent them to Glenn from Sonny and he's like, what the fuck is going on? How are you on our sets? It was great. They were literally below us every day. We never saw them. I don't know what went on. And then by the way, when we went, that was that set. I'm convinced. I'm convinced they're going to have a class action lawsuit.

one day for, I don't know what's going on. That was the like moldiest, gnarliest, most depressing set ever. And I was only on it for eight hours with you doing that car scene. Did we do that in a set? Yes. Wow. It was a poor man's process. 100%. Wow. It was a set.

Wow. Yeah. This is great. I don't know what more anybody could ask for. I don't know what more I could ask for. This was, will you come back for more fun and hijinks when we, when, when you have time? Of course, this is super fun. It's also, I got to learn stuff I never knew. I never, it was, oh, there's one other fact that I never got to do a table read. I don't know why. Was that a purpose thing, Alan, or no?

We didn't generally have that many guest stars do table reads. So maybe it was just that. It's pretty simple. Yeah, because I think it was an extra. I don't know. Because I don't think it was an extra page. For sure it was a cost thing. For sure. It was. A cost thing. Morgan Sackett being like, no. Harris always played John Ralphio is what I was told. Harris played John Ralphio. So I'd never been to a table read for Parks. Wow. And the first time I ever did any of the words was when the cameras were rolling. And that was it.

I didn't realize that. I was one of them who recorded the West Wing Table Reads, which played like radio shows. They were very, very serious, and everybody brought their A-game, and the Parks ones were the only other ones because they were as funny, sometimes funnier than the shows, and I just wish...

How is that not? Like, I would buy that. I would download the table reads of that show in seconds. We should have filmed them. Yeah, we should have filmed them. It's amazing that, like, in a day when they monetize everything and squeeze every dollar out of everybody, the fact that no one's ever figured that out is a mind blower to me.

Anyway, this episode by MeUndies. MeUndies. There you go. Squeezing a dollar out of anything. All right, everybody. Thanks for coming to Pawnee Parks and Recollection. It's me, Rolo, signing off with Alan Yang. And wait, I think John Raffio needs to sign off. Robin Hood!

Parks and recollection. There you go. Thank you to Ben Schwartz. That's so good. It's good to talk to you guys. Yes. Thank you so much for coming on, Ben. Thank you so much. And thanks, Producer Schulte. Thanks to Greg. And goodbye from Pawnee. Bye. Bye.

Parks and Recollection is produced by Greg Levine and me, Rob Schulte. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. The podcast is executive produced by Alan Yang for Alan Yang Productions, Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Jeff Ross, Adam Sachs, and Joanna Solitaroff at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. Gina Batista, Paula Davis, and Britt Kahn are our talent bookers. The theme song is by Mouse Rat, a.k.a. Mark Rivers.

with additional tracks composed by John Danik. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on Parks and Recollection. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher. Reese's Peanut Butter Cups are the greatest, but let me play devil's advocate here. Let's see, so... No, that's a good thing. That's definitely not a problem. Reese's, you did it! You stumped this charming devil!

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