Tyler Fischer & The History Of Comedy
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All right, boys and girls, we are back with another edition of the Ben Domenech podcast brought to you by Fox News Podcast. You can find all of the Fox News podcast at Fox News podcast dot com. You should subscribe and I hope you will share and rate this podcast. Today, I'm talking to Tyler Fisher.

He's a New York-based comic and actor. You can follow him on Twitter at TyTheFish. That's T-Y-T-H-E-F-I-S-C-H. You can follow him on Patreon and support him there at patreon.com slash TylerTalks. He also has a podcast. He's got a YouTube channel that you should subscribe to. And he's also very popular on social media in veins like TikTok.

and the like, and it's for doing things like this. This is a little message to the unvaccinated. Ugh.

You are killing everyone. It's your fault. You're being selfish. So get the vaccine because I'm vaccinated. I am vaccinated. OK, and so I'm protected because the vaccine is safe and effective. So if you're around me and you're unvaccinated, then you're putting me at. Well, you're not. You know, so you're selfish because if I'm protected and you're around me, then I'm.

then I'm fine, but you're me. Sorry. If you're not vaccinated, then you're not, it's your, you're racist is what I'm saying.

Tyler and I spoke about the legacy of the late, great Norm MacDonald, about the business of comedy and more. Tyler Fisher, coming up next. This podcast is supported by FX's English Teacher, a new comedy from executive producers of What We Do in the Shadows and Baskets. English Teacher follows Evan, a teacher in Austin, Texas, who loves to play the role of a man in a suit.

who learns if it's really possible to be your full self at your job while often finding himself at the intersection of the personal, professional, and political aspects of working at a high school. FX's English Teacher premieres September 2nd on FX. Stream on Hulu. Tyler Fisher, thanks so much for taking the time to join me today. Thanks for having me, yeah.

How are you? So I want to talk to you about a couple of different things, but, but mostly I wanted to talk to you about Norm McDonald's passing. But before we get to that, um,

I didn't know he passed. I wish you brought that up. You know, I don't know if you, if you know this, I don't know how deep of a norm fan in terms of deep cuts you, you are, but, um, there's actually an episode of Norm Macdonald live where, uh, he's making some comment about Hitler and, uh,

And his co-host, Adam Egan, says something like, well, he's been dead for forever. And Norm's response is, dead? I didn't even know he was sick. I kind of feel like it's almost like Norm is trying to make us repeat his joke. It's one last kind of act.

which is itself very in keeping with his character. His delivery is so good, too. I didn't even know he was sick. So I want to compliment you as being

one of the few comedians who has just thrived during this very weird moment for comedy where people are, have been kind of forced into a situation where they can only really perform and,

in Florida and Texas and a handful of other places. And they are just very limited. I mean, it seems like the experience of a comedian during this pandemic has just been awful. You have to stand up like on a stage in front of a bunch of cars and

And then they were like flashing their lights or beeping their horns as a substitute for laughter. It's sad, man. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's like some animated movie or something. Yeah. The flashing, cause like the cars are coming to life, but yeah, not, not really, not, not ideal for comedy comedy. You want a small room, low ceilings packed with as many people shoulder to shoulder and

spreading their droplets. And so, yeah, yeah, there's been a lot of shows on sidewalks and really rooftops, but a lot of cool, innovative things have happened. You know, this rooftop show in Brooklyn, they get several hundred people, they pack up on a rooftop. And so there's been some stuff to keep us going. And then I always think of how many people lost their jobs and just don't work at all. You know, so I tried to

Sure. Positive. But I just am curious about your reaction to this, because this is a line of work that, you know, really does, as you say, require people to do all the things that they're recommended not to do in order to enjoy it properly. And at the same time, you know, many of the people who've come out of comedy are that are the same people who

you know, lecturing all of us from the TV on a regular basis about the way that we ought to behave. I mean, you know, Stephen Colbert won an Emmy last night, I'm told, for

I guess his election special. Yes. For crying. The funniest crying from a late night TV show. Those two Stephen Colbert for best explanation of of the of the James Comey cycle. So it just it just does create a situation where.

comics have to deal with, you know, a lot of frustration because if you're not able to get out there and, you know, tell your jokes in front of an audience on a consistent basis, I mean, that just has to be maddening. Yeah. And it easy for him to say he could continue his job, you know, without a studio audience and not lose a dime and stuff. I think sometimes these guys forget, you know, what it was like. I mean, if you watch clips of Colbert when he was auditioning for like the Dana Carvey show, he was broke and,

he used his baby, um, in his, in it. Yeah. Did you see that? Uh, yeah, that was a great documentary. Yeah, it is. It is. And I, I used to love Colbert a lot. Um, but, uh, you know, yeah, they, they forget. And, and, um,

You know, it forced people, I think, like me to just focus more on making videos. I think it's like, you know, you could do a stand up joke, but you can just do it holding your phone to the camera and get millions of views and grow a following. And it's not the same as stand up, you know, so.

For me, I just locked myself in my apartment for a year and a half. I just said, I'm going to make videos every day, try to build a following so that when things open up, I can tour and do those shows again. So, you know, it's a situation where a lot of these people who've learned to make videos at home have been able to, you know,

have some success. So you've seen that from, from you, from Kyle Dunnigan, Shane Gillis has started to get into it. You know, people who have a little bit of production savvy and, and a lot of humor packed up inside them, you know, have been able to have some success. You mentioned Colbert, you know, I don't know if you've met him. I met him several years ago. He, when he was launching Colbert,

the Colbert rapport, he came to Washington. And as it happened, I was on a panel with a group of other writers at the time who were speaking to a group of Capitol Hill press secretaries. So

This was like whatever they, you know, name it, you know, the GOP press secretary club, you know. So it's, you know, 100 plus people, you know, in a room. And we're talking to them and Colbert comes in.

sits down next to me and basically begs these press secretaries, you know, please, please, please let your members come on my show and don't, you know, shut me down just because you know that I'm a liberal and I'm with The Daily Show and I've been with them and that kind of thing. He's like, you know, it's about comedy, it's about the joke, et cetera. And he was very cordial and he was very nice and he bears no resemblance to

to the political animal today who is, you know, basically has the attitude of anyone to his right as a Nazi. And to see that on a regular basis on a broadcast network is,

It's it's disorienting to me because, you know, even though we knew, you know, we everyone knew David Letterman was a liberal. Everyone knew, you know, they knew that the people they were watching on screen, you know, had certain political views that were not with, you know, half the country. But it wasn't like it had to be something that was front and center every night.

And that is just so disappointing to me because it rips you away. It's not like I think that the politics between them are all that different. But, you know, I could watch Conan O'Brien. I could watch Craig Ferguson. I could watch, you know, all these other late night hosts and not feel like, you know, they were taking Hollywood politics and shoving it down your throat. And with these guys, that's just not even possible.

Yeah. It's consume, it's consume them. It's, um, you know, it, it takes a lot of restraint to not want to share your views. Um, and I, you know, I, I used to watch them every night, but it just became like, how much could I take of this or at least, at least balance it, you know, I mean, at least balance it out. Uh, even if it's not 50, 50, you know, maybe 60, 40 or something, but yeah, they're cutting out half the, half the country. And, um,

It's one thing to make fun of something, and it's another thing, like you said, to suggest someone is a Nazi for choosing a political candidate. It's so outrageous, and it's why I stopped watching Colbert. I stopped watching Kimmel. I stopped listening to NPR. I mean, I used to listen to all that stuff, and it was definitely left-leaning, but it was more balanced, and then I just...

I just shut it off. I never looked back. And one of the really disappointing things for me was I went to see a friend of mine do stand up comedy on Colbert. And Colbert was his hero. And this guy's been doing stand up his whole life since he was a teenager. He flies across the country, does Colbert and finds out Colbert is not even there.

And he decided he was no longer going to sit and watch the comedians. So he would have, he has all the comedians do their standup in one night. He packs in like tons of comedians and the comedians have to pretend like they're waving to him or nodding to him. And he's not there. And,

That's absurd. My friend was crushed. He was crushed. Talk about taking away. I mean, there's so many people whose careers began because they were invited over to the desk after they did stand-up. Yeah, yeah. Come on over to the desk. And it's just like

Like, oh, my gosh, that's such a that's depressing. And they didn't tell him, you know, I just thought, you know, how cruel he walks out. He didn't even know he walked out on the stage and the desk is empty. And and then they have a stagehand kind of come and shuffle them off stage. And and I just thought that was, you know, since they worked their whole lives to get this five minute spot.

And the guy doesn't even want to be there to, you know, you don't even have to do anything. Just sit there, man. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, it's that's that's depressing. So that's that's what we have to pull away. That's what we have to get over as comedians is like, that's not the model anymore.

If you can get on one of those shows, do it, have fun, you know, but it's just, it's such a dying model. So, you know, you, again, this, that video I did a few days ago, I mean, probably 10 million views off over a few platforms and I own the video. And, and so. Yeah. So talk about the business of this for a second to me, because, so I listened to a lot of,

The way I consume comedy, because I don't really have the time to, you know, as a dad to go to clubs or anything like that, even before the pandemic, you know, I was not someone who frequently showed up at anything like that. But I love comedy. And so I consume it basically from specials that people put out, from the clips they put out on YouTube and from their podcasts.

And I'm curious about just like the business of it, because it seems like a lot of grind for a small amount of money if you're doing it in terms of

being a traveling jokester someone who will fly to various places and and you know put on a show at a uh in a place that's across from a strip mall with a with a ruby tuesdays or an applebee's or something and or in the applebee's i mean yeah yeah i mean that'd be a that'd be a pretty good gig if someone's like you want to do a you'd be like yeah everyone's

They're all going to be there eating dinner. So it's going to be packed. So tell me a little bit about the business of comedy and kind of how it's changed. And also what the these sort of these Internet platforms that allow for fans to support you have done, because you

There seems to be a lot of people who've got Patreons and sub stacks and other ways where they're like become a member and get another podcast a week or get some kind of access or something like that.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we're basically like OnlyFans, except, you know, we're not showing our skin. We're just offering jokes. No, you're offering the thing below the skin, which is your soul. Yeah, give me my...

rotten heart from doing stand-up for so long but for five bucks a month uh no that line there's that line uh i can't remember is nick dipalo or something you want to you want to drink with a clown you have to drink his tears yeah exactly yeah yeah

And it is, you know, I think almost like it is almost like OnlyFans. It is a little dirty, right? Because it's like, hey, if you pay, I'll tell all these jokes that would get you canceled at your office. So there is something kind of like naughty about the Patreon. If you want the good stuff.

Yeah, I'll give you all my TikToks that have been banned over the last month. So, yeah, it's really, it's kind of sad to me because there really is no model on how to do this. And, you know, yeah.

Most comedians don't make a living. I did all this out of desperation because I've been acting for 15 years. I had a manager. I had an agent. And all the, for lack of better terms, the woke stuff is just eating it alive. And talent is now below skin color. It's below your sexuality. It's below your acronyms, all that stuff. So, I mean, I lost an agent because he said we can't help white guys anymore. Right.

I can't get an agent. They just tell me flat out, like, sorry, we're only taking quote unquote diverse people, which they mean racially diverse. Yeah. So, so to me, I just, uh, I was like, you know what? I, I have to just kill the dream. I have to kill the Hollywood dream, uh, and do it myself. So it was pretty sad. It took a few years to process that. Hmm.

You know, I was pretty dormant with my stuff. And then the pandemic hit and just said, you know what? I got to go for this, you know, wall. Is there an alternate market stream that you think could be sustainable for people who have been, for lack of a better word, kind of X'd out of the hiring process in Hollywood? Meaning,

White guys, there are tons of them and white women because they're coming for them, too, are increasingly getting cut out of even the hiring process for jobs. Yeah, they can't even compete. That's that's the distinction is like we don't even want you to compete anymore.

Yes. Which is. You're not even going to make the callback list. You're not going to, you're not going to get a second interview. You're not even the audition tip. Yeah. And that, and that to me creates a whole mess of,

of well first off i mean it's it's obviously un-american and it's ridiculous um and it's absurd it's the definition of sins of the fathers and things like that but yeah um but and and in this case it's the the great great great grandfathers but it's also yeah unless you were a jew and then yours were slaughtered but we won't we won't bring that up you know

We'll be selective in who we shame. Well, and when it comes to sort of the way that they treat Asian kids in California, when it comes to the college experience and stuff like that, I mean, we're not, we're just going to pretend like, you know, well, we got too many Asian kids around here. You know, we've got to start, you know, putting them in a different list. Anyway, the thing that I think is, is absolutely ridiculous about all this is you have,

a whole mess of talent that is not being used. I mean, people who have gone through years of training and work to get where they are in their careers and, and, you know, are not even going to be on screen. It's not like people are going to see that they have a bunch of white people moving, working on this movie or TV show or what have you, or a writer's room,

Where, I mean, come on, if you had writers rooms that said there are too many Jews and too many Irish people, how unfunny would would like every sitcom be? Exactly. Yeah. But it's but it's the situation. Yeah. If Lena Dunham wrote Seinfeld, it'd be a different. Well, she's white. But the point is, but the point is just like you have a lot of talent that's just kind of sitting there and it's going to have to find different actors.

of work. And so my question is kind of, is there a space for a creative studio or an alternate pathway for

for basically saying, you know, hey, if Hollywood doesn't like you because you aren't one of the colors that they care about, by the way, I just want to point out the Marvel Cinematic Universe technically does not include a single Hispanic superhero at the moment. So, yeah, let me get on Twitter. Maybe they should. Maybe they should get on that.

Well, yeah. That's what's so funny is that they're breaking humans down into an... We can be broken down into an infinite number of categories. So it's

It already is absurd, but it's going to become so comically absurd that, you know, they're going to be like, well, we finally have the first black Latinx ambidextrous, non-binary, vegetarian, vegan on the weekend, you know, a custodian working at the White House. And it's like, that's the only way this could go. Well, and it's so destructive. I mean, but, you know, in the sense that like...

If you have a look, if you are someone who is trying to get a job within these industries, who is an ethnic minority, good on you. Good luck to you. But you don't want to be there because you feel like you're an affirmative action hire. You want to feel like you're there because you earned it. Everyone knows that. Everyone knows that they don't want to.

vast majority of people are not Ibram X. Kendi. They are not sort of, you know, I'm going to change my name from Henry Rogers in order to get all these billionaires. I do an impression of Ibram X. Kendi, but I could only do it over audio. So the thing that's so funny about him is, is

I love his his ridiculous. I don't know if if this was the basis for it, because it's the it's the the advisor in the Mike Judge show, Silicon Valley. It sounds to me a lot like Everett Max Kendi because he does this flip thing where it's like, you know, you can only be anti-racist.

by being anti-capitalist you know and you can only be truly anti-capitalist if you are also anti-racist and he just does that like over and over and over it's like this little thing that he does which is ridiculous when you listen to it on repeat it's like are you just kidding me here but but you also feel like this would probably fly with a stupid white billionaire yeah

Right, right. Well, they're making a lot of great characters for us. That's that's the thing. It's at this point, you know, take your pick of characters you want to imitate. And they're just they're just parody. Well, but they're but they they're making those characters. But to parody them, you have to go to the platforms that you are on.

as opposed to you know the kind of shows that would be on broadcast or something right right and i used to i used you know i i've been pitching tv shows for years for maybe probably 10 years and so you know uh i just kept hitting that roadblock of well it's got to be diverse and i'll go wait well this is a show about me they'll go well we'll replace you if we have so i stopped

pitching shows. So, you know, for now, uh, letting that go and can there be an alternative space? I mean, I guess the, I guess the internet is that space. Um, you know, look what happened to Joe Rogan and to even Shane Gillis. And, um, have you seen, have you seen Shane special his Austin special? I just watched it. Yeah. I watched it a couple of nights ago and loved it. And, uh, but at the same time, it's like,

One of the things that's so sad about Shane and I, I've never met the guy. I don't know the guy. So nice. I do shows with him a lot. He's just a tremendous guy. Well, just, and just for our listeners, I'm sure that, that you are, even if you don't know his name, you know, his story, which is that he was this white guy comedian who got,

immediately canceled when he was hired to be a cast member at SNL. He's that guy. Look up his special on YouTube. It's live from Austin. And the funny thing about it is he is not

ardently political guy. No, he avoids it pretty artistically. His jokes cut both ways and are not in any way... It's not like SNL was ever going to let a quote-unquote...

conservative comedian, you know, come on and join the cast. They were asking him to come on because clearly he's talented and funny. They should have, they should have Ben Shapiro on SNL. This next sketch is brought to you by ExpressVPN. The problem, the problem with having Ben on and, and, and,

I like Ben is that he talks so quickly you would miss all of the jokes. It would just be this rapid part. You'd have to stop in between each sketch. Okay, we have to take a quick pause. Do you need a new mattress? I have 300 kids. I hate my kids. You need the mattress. Everyone's like, Ben, what are you doing? We're live.

The thing that's so funny to me, though, about watching that Shane Gill special is even in that special, even in that 45, 48 minutes, there's several times where he has to kind of caveat some stuff that he's saying. He's like, this is Austin, so don't get too excited about that or don't turn this into a rally or something. And look, I appreciate how hard it must be

to do the job of getting up, standing up in front of people, bearing yourself, you know, being raw, being honest and telling things that really come from within you, meaning all the comedians who are true comedians and not the people who are just kind of, you know, corporate entities brought to you by Mountain Dew. But it's the thing that is one of the saddest things to me to see

talented comedians sidelined by the corporate realities of what they're facing. And obviously that's something that Norm experienced in his own life in the sense of having this plum job at weekend update being told by Donald Meyer that, that infamously that he needed to, to, to slow down on the OJ jokes and,

and then deciding that he's going to tell twice as many OJ jokes. And to me, that's just such a wonderful reflection on what bravery looks like within comedy, which is not, you know, what's her name? Anyway, it's not standing up and giving lines

lectures from the comedy stage. It's actually telling jokes about things that you want to make fun of that the suits are telling you you shouldn't make fun of that for reasons that are completely out of touch with what people are talking about. And unfortunately, I think that that's

Kind of what you are doing in a lonely way, along with, you know, a handful of other comedians right now online is telling jokes about people that you're not supposed to joke about, whether it's Anthony Fauci or.

whether it's, you know, the people that are in charge, you know, Ryan Long's latest video is about nation masterclass for nation building. Oh my God. I got to watch that. Yes. Yeah. No, he'll appreciate it. So, but the, but the point is just like, are, is it really, have we really reached a point as a,

in America, one that, you know, used to have the ability to have Chevy Chase have a conversation with Richard Pryor on broadcast TV that would never be allowed today. You know, or have we really reached a point where, you

You know, you you can't make fun of things that are that extend far beyond like punching down or anything like that. But you can't make fun of the powerful. You can't make fun of Anthony Fauci. You can't make fun of Joe Biden. You know, these things are off limits because it certainly seems that way.

Yeah, well, I guess the upside is like, you know, guys like Shane and Ryan, I mean, they've gotten so big so fast, which just...

basically proves that there's a market for that. There's a huge market and, and they're not really doing, I mean, they're very talented, very talented, but they're not really doing anything different than, you know, what prior did or any, any, most comedians before this stuff really became absurd. So they're just kind of now seen as, you know, pioneers or risky or X, Y, and Z.

when it's really the left has just shifted so far left that now they appear conservative or, you know, or what have you. So I'm trying to find the upside here. And I think one is that

in my own experience, because I was desperate, I started and I really didn't have much of a following. My following is just starting to grow. I mean, I, I had, you know, the semblance of a following and I start, I just went, all right, I'm going to say what I want. I don't have a following. I'm not making money. I can't get on the tonight show. I can't get this.

And within three months, my videos started exploding. My following started going up. And so that's the upside is...

You really can say what you want. You can't say it on the tonight show, but you can say it on your platform or on YouTube or on Patreon and you can make money from it. And there's a big market for it. And then there's something almost freeing about it where you go, okay, I'm not, I'm no, I'm no longer even trying to get into the Hollywood scene. So I have nothing to lose. I mean, I can truly say whatever I want because at this point,

I have enough. I'm not extreme, but I have enough, you know, things that I've said on podcasts or my own podcast where if I got a role on Disney, I'd be out in 24 hours. So that's there's something freeing about that. More with my conversation with Tyler coming up next.

Reporting live from under my blanket, I'm Susan Curtis with Duncan at Home. Breaking news, pumpkin spice iced and hot coffees are back. I'll pass it to Mr. Curtis with his blanket for the full story. That is so right, Susan. You know, it's never too early to get in a spicy mood. I'm talking cinnamony goodness that's so tasty, people don't want to leave their blankets either. Back to you. No, back to you. All you.

The home with Dunkin' Pumpkin Spice is where you want to be. You know, it's a funny comparison maybe to make, but this is something similar to what's happening in the right of center media dynamic, which I talked about on my last podcast with Miranda Devine, which is that there's an enormously freeing power of

if you are a writer who kind of gives up on the idea of ever having a column in the New York Times, meaning that if you frame the way that you approach things by, I need to end up like with my, with my imprimatur there with my, you know, sort of tenure granted by the gray lady, then I can't say this. I can't say that I have to navigate things.

That also has the effect of really silencing you on your beliefs. And once you give up on that and you basically say, you know what, it doesn't really matter to me whether I end up there. It's not one thing or the other, and I'm just going to say what I want to say. There's an enormously freeing power of that.

Now, you know, the problem I think that comes is that you have this dynamic where there are a lot of people who,

they still want to be successful comics, but they also want to be able to have that Disney opportunity. They want to voice a character special. Yes. They want to, they want to voice a character in an animated movie. You know, they want to get that, you know, that sweet, sweet Pixar cash, you know, and that ends up sending people down a road away from being able to tell good jokes. And I think that one of the things we can appreciate is,

about Norm Macdonald. And one of the things that made him so powerful is that this is a guy who never had a hit movie or a hit show. I mean, it's kind of amazing that he had the breadth of fandom that he did without ever having the, you know, the big thing that hit for him. I mean, you know, for...

it's, it's, you know, perhaps an unfair comparison, but you know, Tim Allen was a lot, is a lot more successful than Norm MacDonald, you know, like by every measure, you know? And, and so it's one of these things where you, you look at Norman, you say, why did he have such an impact on people? For me, it's that his, his style, his approach to jokes was so unique and so daring that,

And so unwilling to brook any kind of limitation that, you know, that appealed to people in a way that was surprising in a way that kind of a he's almost like an.

And, you know, he's this he's this smiling, impish shock jock in a way. Yeah. Yeah. Well, first, I want to say that we I think the most Norm Macdonald thing we could do, which we succeeded at, which is we went 35 minutes without talking about Norm Macdonald. Exactly. So.

I know we didn't do that on purpose, but that's the most Norm Macdonald way to even have a conversation about him. Set it up and then he never will never bring it up. You know, I saw I saw him at Caroline's on Broadway and beginning of his set, he goes to light a cigarette and then he starts telling a joke, you know, then he puts it back in his mouth. He did that the entire set.

The whole set, like an hour and a half. And then someone goes, you want a lighter? He goes, nah, I don't smoke. And that was the end of this set. What are you talking about? I don't smoke. What are you talking about? I don't smoke. That's beautiful. We were reaching out to various folks for stories about Norm and

I think Corolla may have told this one already, but the story that he passed along to me was that he and Norm and a couple other comics had gone out

together all night. And Norm had like a flight back that was relatively early. And so we went back to his hotel room and he called down to the front desk and asked for a 7 a.m. wake-up call. And the response to him was, sir, it's 6.59. And he said, oh, well, I better hang up so you can call me back. Laughter

Everyone who's close to him has a story, I think. But one thing that really does stick out to me about him is it's odd in retrospect to see how private he was. I was expecting, like I said, I listened to all these different comedian podcasts. So I was expecting to hear...

you know, Burr and, and Mark Norman and, and Conan and these other people kind of talking about these like private interactions and things. And it turns out they kind of do the same stories that I knew. I mean, for instance, you know, Conan in his, in his podcast with Richter and one of his producers makes says that he didn't know that

that Norm was unaware he was supposed to do a second segment, which of course spawned the epic moth joke until Norm talked about it publicly on his book tour. And I was at the event in DC, which you could find the video of, where Norm tells the story of this happening.

And it just kind of surprises me. Like, I assume, I guess I assume that they had closer friendships with him off air, but it seems in retrospect, like he was a deeply private person. And there's something...

I don't know, oddly inspiring about that in a way of, of, of like, I'm not the story. I'm not going to tell my story. I'm not going to go on some mawkish farewell tour. You know, I'm going to, I'm not going to go through life that way. And that just seems so, I mean, it's in keeping with him, but it's also very much out of touch with the times and the way that people approach things. Yeah.

Yeah, I envy it in a way. I mean, I never even really wanted to start a podcast. I'm quite private myself. And it came out of a desperate, I guess I should start a podcast. And now I'm talking about my life and talking about my auditions that I get or didn't get. But I...

I envy and I respect comedians or actors, anyone who keeps their politics a little closer to their chest or whatever. And it's fine to have your opinions, but I think that's kind of a dying art

in and of itself is having guys like him or Johnny Carson, who you didn't quite know who they were. They kept it a little separate Seinfeld similar. And I think there's something refreshing about that. Yeah. Did you have, do you have a favorite norm joke or do you have a favorite norm story? I think my favorite favorite joke is,

He's saying like, you know, what if you woke up and you were wrong about everything? Everything you ever did was wrong. He's like, it's time to go to the rope store. The best thing about that is next to the rope store, there's always a rickety stool store. It's funny how that happens.

They're always right next to each other. I don't know. That one always stuck in my head. It's just the way he just, he's such a good actor. I think that's, that's something I don't think people talk about enough. And his delivery is so good because his acting is so good and he's able to deliver it so straight.

but the writing is just off enough where those two things together, I think make it. The rhythm, the rhythm is always a little bit off in, in a clearly intentional way. And you don't necessarily understand that until you see the, you know, sort of the ending of the story, the ending of the, the, the punchline of the joke. I, I love the,

one of the things that i really like about him is is i loved this uh the dorm mcdonald live show which bounced around it was kind of like an a too early video podcast it was part of the video podcast network um and but he had phenomenal like big name guests who would come on because it's norm and uh and he would interview them in the the interview you can find it on vimeo

uh with seinfeld uh actually contains uh he asks seinfeld about his favorite uh his favorite jew joke and he and he tells it uh which have you seen this i don't think so well seinfeld says well you it doesn't really work because you know it has to be like a jewish person sort of telling it to another jewish person it's he says he says uh

two Gentile businessmen run into each other on the corner on the street. And one of them says to the other, oh, how's business? And the other one says, great.

That's the joke. That's it. But my... I would encourage people to watch it only because he does this thing, and you can find this on YouTube. Some people have collected, like, mashed up things. He does this thing where at the end of the show, he'll have all these jokes written on cards that he will make the celebrities read. And they're the most...

inappropriate, you know, frequently racist, you know, jokes that you could possibly, you know, be telling. I mean, like the very first one in a mashup that I saw was Bob Saget telling this joke and just being like, I can't believe I just read this. For Bob Saget to say that is something...

And the funny thing about it is they'll always ask, every one of the guests will ask, who wrote this? Where did you get this? That sort of thing. And Norm is always pretending like he didn't write it. So he's always like, I don't know, some guy. He dropped it off at my house. I don't know. It was in my front stoop. No, I think my favorite joke, which is also one of those

cards it's just the uh uh you know las las vegas announced you know the opening of a new you know

You know, the tallest Ferris wheel in the country unveiled today, also drawing thousands to Las Vegas. Whores. Yeah, yeah. It's just such a norm. Like, that's just a classic of the genre. Simple punchline, one word, typically. It's one thing that I wondered about, though, is

I don't feel like he lots of people said that he kind of inspired followers or imitators. That's something I heard frequently from people. I don't really feel that way. He's really hard to imitate, though. I think that's part of it. Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, he's offbeat a little bit. You know, it's like like hearing modern jazz. It's just awful little. So it's really difficult.

to and i do tons of impressions i've actually never even tried to do him for real but um i'd say the closest and maybe it's because the name is similar norm mcdonald and mark norman there's something like hey hey yeah comedy i'm gay yeah he sort of got that old-timey voice that that you know they're probably the most similar and then when it comes to kind of the the the the

one word punchline or the kind of the meaner punchline. I do think that it was interesting. I would love to get the footage apparently cut of the multiple interactions that he had with Anthony Jeselnik during the time that he was hosting Last Comic Standing because they apparently had sort of this, they had this contentious relationship. Okay. But a lot of it, and apparently it all ended up like on the cutting floor. Like you only got little flavors of it.

it during during the time that was there and i think that there is just the people who want to sort of i think off i think first off your comparison is correct he's the closest mark norman is probably the closest in style to him and it could be the curly hair and the voice i don't know that's no no i think i think you're right i think it's in the sense that he tells he he will tell um

these kind of brief stories and then give this kind of shrugging, smiling joke at the end, which is something that's very norm equivalent. But it's just weird to see a situation where you have someone who's praised by so many people and yet, you know, I mean...

It's kind of funny that Norman ends all his sets with, I'm Kevin Hart. Because what we do get is we get a lot of imitations of Kevin Hart in the comedy scene. That's actually what you get.

because the people want that sweet Disney money. Yeah, I have the height right with Kevin Hart. I think we're both 5'2 or something. You could be a sand-in on the next Jumanji. Yeah, I should say, Tyler Fisher, the white Kevin Hart. That'll be on the billboard. Before I let you go, it does seem that comedy...

has come back to a certain point of importance in American lives due to this pandemic. Yeah. We're all stuck at home. You know, the ability of these studios to crank out new material is very limited. And so the fact that you can have a guy get up on stage or a girl get up on stage and do a set and film it is,

and then put it on and have people actually tune in, you know, is something that just kind of naturally lends itself to comedy taking on a more important role in our lives. Just given that, are there trends that you think that...

that we should notice or that we should pay attention to as, as just giving us some, giving us some optimism, giving us some feeling that, you know what, you are not doomed to a future of,

of Claptor and of Colbert of, you know, climate night for all of the different nightly shows or whatever it is they're doing of, of, you know, sort of humorlessness that is sold to you as more noble and courageous than telling a funny joke that makes you actually laugh.

Yeah, I think what I try to stay away from is saying I can't say that anymore. I just made a choice, and I think anyone can, regardless of if you're a comedian or whatever you do. It gets a little trickier if you're a teacher and you want to speak out about something, but I think the people that are just –

trying to be as funny as they can, taking risks. Because at the end of the day, you're just throwing stuff to the wind daily. As a comedian, you've got to come up with new material and crank it out. So if you do that, but you have to make the decision that I'm going to go for it and I'm not going to worry about getting quote unquote canceled. I'm just going to go for it and explore the art of it.

evolve, people will find you, you know, if you're doing it in a genuine way. And I'm not doing anything differently than I ever have. I just now, you know, it just seems more shocking because everyone's playing it more safe.

You know, I have tons of people that write me every day and just say, oh, thank you. That was so refreshing. So that's what people want to see. They want to see a genuine attempt at art. And I think as these late night shows are dying out,

you know, YouTube and podcasts and all that stuff is, is, is on fire right now. So, yeah, I think we're just, we're transitioning as a country to, to use the hot button word of the transitioning. Well, we, we will look forward to the, the new way that we are becoming in, in terms of if it ends up with a situation where more people can,

Tell these jokes without being having to make everybody lock up their phones first. Tyler, thanks so much for taking the time to join me today. Thanks for having me, man. So I'm sure many of you have seen the images by now of the appearance of Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez at the Met Gala in a

white dress with red lettering on it that said tax the rich there's been a lot of attention paid to it obviously from folks on the right who are enraged at the hypocrisy going on there

Uh, I, and given that we had a conversation today about, uh, uh, Norm MacDonald, I have to remind you of his commentary to, uh, Jerry Seinfeld on comedians and cars. When talking about Bill Cosby, uh, he said, you know, Patton Oswalt said to me that, uh, the thing that bothered him so much about, uh, Cosby, uh, was the hypocrisy. And I said, it wasn't for me. Uh,

it was the raping. And, and that's, I think the attitude that we ought to have toward this. The problem is not the hypocrisy. It's that when it comes to AOC's approach to this, she is trolling people in such an unserious way that,

At the same time that she is, you know, attending this, you know, vaunted and expensive event, you know, with expensive designer, expensive hair and makeup, etc. The problem is that she's not actually living what she says we ought to live.

when it comes to socialism. And that's not about hypocrisy. It's, it's basically the fact that she's not representing the people in when she's going to the Met Gala or something like that. People like Joe Manchin and Kristen cinema care a lot more about their constituents than she does. It's not about the hypocrisy. It's about the fact that she's basically become a useful tool for the very establishment that she seeks to criticize and,

And Eddie scary writing at the Federalist has a piece about this. I encourage you to read about how this is about America's new social hierarchy, not about the hypocrisy involved. Some on the right, he writes, saw a golden opportunity for a class mockery when democratic representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez showed up to this year's annual Met Gala wearing a ridiculous white dress that said tax the rich on its backside.

There's nothing to laugh at or make fun of here. This is simply another example of those in power, those running our most influential cultural and political institutions, sending a message. There's a new social hierarchy in America, and this one isn't about what you can afford to do. It's about what you're allowed to do.

The most important image from the dress saga isn't the one now memefied a million times over, wherein mini Jenny from the block is seen posing alone. It's looking back over her shoulder so the text can be seen by the camera. It's the one Ocasio-Cortez posted on Twitter, apparently being fitted for the dress. The congresswoman is not wearing a face covering, but the woman who's helping her into the gown is. That's the way this works now.

Recall that just a few days ago, Dr. Anthony Fauci, the media's favorite sex symbol, lectured Americans about gathering outdoors, the safest place possible, at sporting events. I don't think it's smart, he said on CNN.

Before dropping that timeless wisdom about strapping masks to your face, even when having gone through the trouble of being vaccinated against COVID. Interesting. That was in August, which was the same month that former President Barack Obama, weeks earlier, was seen on video getting amped at an outdoor birthday party with hundreds of guests and service staff in Martha's Vineyard. Fauci wasn't invited on national television to weigh in on that one, or if he was, he declined.

Dukes County, where Martha's Vineyard is located, has been on an upward trend of new coronavirus infections since early July, just like almost everywhere else. Why should that particular place be the exception to host a massive indoor bash without any masks? Guests at the Obama party were supposedly required to have been vaccinated, but the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention began advising face coverings for even the vaccinated when indoors back in late July.

New York Times reporter Annie Carney was sure to do her part reinforcing our new social order by explaining on CNN that the Obama party attendees were a sophisticated, vaccinated crowd. It's not enough that you did what you were told was the right thing and got vaccinated. You now have to be sophisticated to enjoy large gatherings. And by sophisticated, they certainly don't mean you.

It's been an interesting time to see the kind of reactions to these events in recent weeks, to see the San Francisco mayor go unmasked and then say that she was just in the moment, to see the kind of displays at the Met Gala, at the Emmy Awards and the like.

but to me, it's actually a heartening symbol to, to see the type of reaction from the vast majority of Americans, uh, who have been vaccinated, uh, and who have moved on from the kind of restrictions that people like Dr. Fauci would like to place on them. I,

I think particularly of the scenes from college and football and the NFL over the weekend of tens of thousands of people gathering happily in stadiums outdoors and really celebrating the return to normalcy that they have within those confines.

If they can't have it within the world of public schools, if they can't have it within government buildings, if they can't have it in Washington, D.C., that's one thing. But the rest of America really is ready to move on from these types of restrictions that make no sense and that have not proven to have any success when it comes to actually preventing the spread of this disease. To me, that's a responsible answer to this. It's one that most of the Western world

is clearly engaged in. And yet our own designated masters, our self-chosen elect are unwilling in so many ways to let go of the power that has been given them during this time. It's going to be up to Americans to take it back upon themselves. And that will only come with pushing back against what they demand of us.

I'm Ben Domenech. You've been listening to another edition of the Ben Domenech Podcast. We'll be back soon with more. Until then, be lovers of freedom and anxious for the fray.