validating the worst person you know with Casey Beveridge
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Okay, hi guys, welcome back to X's and O's. I am your host, Shannon Beveridge. I don't think that's how I usually do the intro. I think I say it differently. Let me try again. Okay. Okay, hi guys, my name is Shannon Beveridge. I'm the host of X's and O's, a podcast where we talk about queer relationships and sex. Woo! My favorite things. Woo!

It's like a bad joke and I keep making it, but I do appreciate you coming back each week if you do. Thank you for being here. Elephant in the room, obviously look around. I'm not...

in Los Angeles. I am, in fact, in Austin, Texas. I was here for South by Southwest. It is Wednesday right now. I did my panel yesterday on queer representation and why Hollywood can't replicate the influencer. So it was very sick. Also, that is why this episode is up a day late. Uh,

Forgive me for I have sinned. I'm so sorry. Anyway, the panel went so amazing. It was so much fun. I did the panel with Zoya, David, and Lauren. And I wish that you guys could watch it. The way that South by is set up, like you can't, you can't watch it. So,

I'm just gonna give you a little like a recap of what what it was. We talked about we talked about Hollywood and how it is behind in creating representation for queer people

And although it's getting a lot better because we have a lot more, thank goodness, it's still obviously behind and they can't really do what an influencer can do. And I think that's because, yeah, I think Hollywood does not make three-dimensional characters. There's still a lot of stereotypical queer characters in Hollywood's representation of queer people. And the, the,

Amazing thing about influencers and especially honestly, TikTok is that you can find queer people who are like you, who look like you because queer people are, there's a million different versions of us, obviously. And Hollywood is stuck on like three. So it's good that we have TikTok to create that representation. And the For You page is just like such a tool, a unique tool in finding people who are like-minded and like you. And honestly,

The flip side of that is obviously the echo chamber that can become TikTok where you're only getting fed exactly what you think and exactly what you feel and the same type of people as you constantly. And then you walk outside of your house and you're like, oh my freaking God, there's like a whole world out here and people are much different and people are also behind in the way they think sometimes or whatever.

Yeah. So it's a double edged sword, right? TikTok and the For You page. But also I was talking about it on the panel yesterday. It's so funny to think about how many people during like the height of COVID, how many women got fed queer and like lesbian content so much so that they were like, wait, am I a lesbian? And then a lot of them were like, oh, my God, I am a lesbian.

A win for the gays, anyway. But yeah, we talked about that. We talked about how we've created representation ourselves, like Zoya and her girlfriend Alex. They are such a beautiful, like,

And they have they are representing queer joy in such an amazing way, which Hollywood also is not crushing the queer joy. We're still getting like we're still getting a lot of the sad stories, the coming out stories, the tragic stories. So it's nice to have that.

those real life couples making that content so shout out Zoya and Alex yay! uh it's really hot in Austin and I walked a mile and a half that's why my sleeves are pushed up like this I guess I could have just changed my shirt uh but apparently I wanted to f- okay no!

Please don't do that, Shannon. Anyway, should we do a mental health check-in? Let's do it. And if you are watching the podcast or listening to the podcast, I guess watching, because if you're on YouTube, please comment below if you're ever like inspired to do your own mental health check-in when I'm doing mine at the beginning, because that would be best case scenario. And also if you're here and you want to like the video on YouTube or rate the podcast on, uh,

or where are podcasts? Spotify, I would appreciate it. It really does help, honestly. The engagement is huge.

So helpful both to help the podcast do better, but also to give me feedback to know what you guys are liking, what you don't like, whatever. I'm still learning. Everything is still new for me, even though this is episode 14, I think, which is awesome. But yeah, 14 times doing something. You're not an expert, believe it or not. So please let me know what you like, what you don't like, etc., etc., etc. Be gentle, but be kind.

Tell me. You can tell me. I can take it. I can take the feedback. Okay, mental health check-in. Let's do it. I am still feeling really happy, which is great. This is like the most consistently happy I think I've felt in a while where it's just like, okay, things are... It's not like crazy high highs, but it's also not low lows. So I'm just feeling really good and taking it day by day. But I'm so grateful. I'm so happy working on this podcast has like really been such a joy in my life. And...

provided so much structure that I think I was missing and like really wanted but didn't know how to get it exactly so it's been really good and I'm so grateful for you guys for listening each week if you do or if you watch sometimes and not all the times I don't even care thanks for coming ever I really appreciate it I'm happy with the relationships I have in my life I'm happy with the people in my life I'm happy with I'm just happy I guess who would have thought me

I'm so grateful. Yeah. And yeah, things really do get better all the time. Such a silly saying, such a silly statement. I feel like queer people have like made that our whole brand, but it's so true. It's so true. I'm so happy that I'm here.

there were times where I didn't want to be. And I'm like, wow, look at all that I would have missed out on. It's a lot. I would have missed so much. On another positive note, my mom came to South by Southwest. So I got to hang out with her, which was amazing. I love to see my mother, little Deb. And she cried during the panel, classic Deb. And she also got to meet some of you guys and she loves that so much. So thank you everyone who's ever nice to my mom or says hi to her or is like, oh, Deb, like legend.

That really means the world to her for sure, but it also means the world to me. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And yeah, this episode's also with my sister. So family time, there's family time all over the place. Isn't it funny? Like I want to know if I'm alone in this, but I'm also like, am I exposing myself in this way? But whatever. Family has this funny way of bringing out like some of like the worst qualities in myself. I'm just going to speak for myself.

And that quality mostly being impatience. Like, I feel like I'm such a patient person and I'm very laid back, but if there's anyone who can bring out the impatience in me, it is my family. So I don't know if you guys relate to that or not, but...

I was definitely feeling some of that during this trip and mom if you're listening which I know you will and you listen to it twice and on multiple platforms because you're an angel I'm sorry if I was impatient with you at all you are a perfect little angel and I love you so much and I know I'm so lucky to have family who supports me like that so shout out Deb and shout out to anyone who said hi to Deb moving along this is a shorter episode

Mostly because I was running out of time in New York and my sister is a very busy woman. She's a therapist. She works a lot. She's a great therapist. We only had about like 30 minutes to film this episode. So if it feels short, it's because it is. And if it feels rushed at all, it's because it was. But I'm still so happy with the way it turned out and I hope that you guys like it and enjoy

If you do want to see Casey on the podcast ever again and have her ask me like more deep questions, please comment below what you would want her to ask me because I think we'll definitely do it again and hopefully for longer than 30 minutes. But.

Shout out to Casey for doing it at all. I love you so much. I think it's a difficult thing for a therapist to decide how much to disclose when they're speaking publicly because she has clients. So I think, yeah, I'm just grateful for her to

for coming on at all and talking to me at all. So thank you, Casey. I love you. Love you so much. And I love your husband, Jared, who brings us coffees halfway through this episode. So you might see that too, if you're watching. Yeah, I guess that's all I really have for an update. Look forward to next week. There's lots of stuff that's going to happen, stuff that I'm dropping, things that I'm launching. So next week's going to be, it's going to be exciting. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. Well, I hope you enjoy this episode. Okay, just quickly, I actually forgot to say something. I forgot to mention that the lighting in this video is quite interesting. I don't know what's going on. There's a huge window behind me and Casey and yeah, I didn't have my normal setup so we're really backlit and we're glowing like little angels that we are but things have looked better before in my life. Trust me. Video content has looked better but...

I actually recorded this intro once and it didn't record properly. I don't know if anyone else has this problem, but my photo booth will record video for me and then corrupt. It goes corrupt. So I had to film it twice. And you know what's annoying? The first intro was better, but whatever. But something I wanted to say, which was, is just funny, but I had a meeting with a financial advisor today, which is the most stressful thing in the world. I hate money. I hate talking about money. I hate thinking about money. I hate money. But

It was interesting because she was like, "What do you see for yourself in five to 10 years? "What are the goals that you wanna have?"

and I was like I don't know I guess like definitely probably wouldn't have enough money to like do IVF if I want to do IVF and then she was like oh my gosh do you know that you can like make a baby with just two girls eggs now and then I've been on a desperate search to find the proof of this and I haven't been able to find any real proof so if anyone has the proof I want to see it but yeah she was like yeah I think you're gonna be able to have a baby with two eggs but the only problem is it will only be

you can only make a girl baby, which I'm like, where's the problem? I love girls. That's best case scenario. I wouldn't mind never having a son, honestly, but I wouldn't mind having a son either, but having only daughters sounds awesome. So anyway, if anyone has research proof on that, I want to see it. And if anyone, yeah. Would you guys do that? What would you do if you don't have a baby? How are you going to have a baby? Babies have been a topic of

a topic around here, let me tell you. Not for my own womb, but other wombs around here. Anyway, yeah, comment below. Let me know what you guys think, what your plans are for your future children. And yeah, enjoy the episode. I just had to throw that back in because I forgot to say it the second time around. So, okay, bye. This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Whether you're selling a little or a lot.

Shopify helps you do your thing, however you cha-ching. From the launch your online shop stage, all the way to the we just hit a million orders stage. No matter what stage you're in, Shopify's there to help you grow. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash special offer, all lowercase. That's shopify.com slash special offer.

Hi, Bald. It's me, Trixie Mattel, skinny legend and board-certified HVAC sommelier. And me, Katya Zamolachikova, the sweatiest creature in showbiz, reminding you to subscribe to the Bald and the Beautiful podcast. Listen as we cover topics as varied as proper bidet usage, celebrity impression tutorials, and a television show I recently watched that I'll base my entire personality on for six weeks. As well as creative pest control, tasty limeade recipes, and fun sex act trends.

We also chat about boobs and movies and wigs and stuff, which is obviously the public service part of the podcast. So get ready for screaming, cackling, and some occasional educational moments as two massively unqualified queens talk about what it's like to be the epitome of fabulous. Go subscribe to The Bald and the Beautiful with Trixie Mattel and Katya Zomoletskova on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening right now. We're so backlit. We look like angels.

Okay, hi guys, my name is Shannon Beveridge. Welcome back to X's and O's, a podcast where we talk about queer relationships and sex. And today we have a very special guest. The one, the only, Casey Beveridge. My sister, my older sister. She is a...

I am a psychologist. She is a psychologist with her doctorate. Is that correct? With your PhD? Yeah. So she's pretty smart. So we're happy to have her here today. A lot of feedback I've gotten in the past from you guys about the podcast is that you wish I would answer more questions. So essentially, I was like, Casey, come be on the podcast. You can interview me like the therapist that you are. Correct? Correct.

Sure. Yeah. Okay. So that's what we're doing today. I also have to go to the airport in 30 minutes. So we're in a, we're going quick. We're going quick and it's going to be lovely and great. Thanks for being here, Casey.

Sure thing. Okay. Casey loves to be on camera, so we're going to have the best time. All right. Do you want to give an intro to who you are at all, other than my sister and a therapist? I thought that was pretty good. I'm a therapist. I live in New York. I am also your older sister. We're bi-coastal sisters. I'm in LA. Casey's in New York. Casey's been here for what, over 10 years? Almost 13 years. Okay.

She's a New Yorker. Yeah. Nine. It's been a long time. I'm coming up on 10 years in LA, which is crazy. That is crazy. I mean, I think I'm at eight, but still, that's a long time. No, it's got to be longer than that. I'm at nine. Okay. There you go. No. Eight. I moved there in 2015. Nine. Damn. Okay. Anyway, we're getting older. Okay. Yeah. Should we get into it? Sure. Do you have any questions for me? Sure.

Kind of. Okay. I mean, I don't have like an intro question. I mean, what's it been like to do the show? Doing the show. It's fun. It's fun.

Like I think talking for as long as a podcast is is more stressful than what I'm used to in the past because there's just so much time and editing it and not like putting sound effects and making it like super entertaining constantly is right. I'm not really a big consumer of podcasts. So creating one is confusing a little bit, but I do want to I feel like in the in the future it will have more of like

more of the sound effects. Like, I want to get more... I need to hire someone to edit it for me because I can't... I just can't do it. I don't like... I'm not here for the sound effects. Oh, good. Yeah. No, I think it's been really cool to see you do this. I think it's like the nature of your work seems... It's so creative that it's sort of like very...

what's the what's the expression fits and starts like it's sort of like you're really knee deep in something and then you don't have anything for a while and this seems like the first thing that's really given you some structure in a long time and I've been really impressed you get one out every week I listen to them every week I love it I had to text Casey recently I'm like

Are you listening to the podcast? She's like, I've listened to every episode. I'm like, well, how would I know that? Because you've not given me feedback one time. I'm like, okay. But you like it? I do. I like it. I think it's fun to listen to. It's fun to see...

Your personality. I really like the ones where you're with your friends and you get to like more kind of see the like fun banter. I mean, most have been so far friends or like friend like people I've known. I haven't done many where I'm like, who are you? Yeah. Many. I think I haven't done any. Yeah. But I feel like that's something that's going to have to start happening soon.

but I feel like I wanted to get used to it with friends first because it's a lot less scary. I mean, okay, so I've known you your whole life. Crazy. I know. Could you, like, what did you think that you were going to end up doing for a living in college? In college? Could you have ever pictured something like this? Oh, I don't think you could do this for a living then, you know? Yeah. Barely. I mean, people who had podcasts with

Well, the podcast was there. Yeah, there were podcasts, but it was all like famous people. But it wasn't what it was now. No. And then like the influencer really didn't exist yet. So I think. Yeah, I think I thought I would get into marketing or I wanted to work at a startup. I wanted to work in something nonprofit vibe or like adjacent, like something that would help.

But then I never had to figure it out. Well, the part that seems like the least surprising to me is the photography and the directing music videos, that kind of thing. In a way, it's surprising because you were kind of more of a jock in high school. But I always think of that like whenever you took art just because you wanted to, you kept going with it. I did the same, actually. I was

I'm not very artistic. Yes, you are so artistic. But it was really fun. I really wanted to do it. And then I was surprised you ended up doing the same thing. And I remember coming home from college and you had some huge project you were working on. And I was like,

She has a really good eye. Okay. I know. I knew you were like a decent, like you could draw a little and stuff, but I don't know. You were the, like, you know, you played sports. I was a volleyball player and track star. Yeah. Look, Jared brought us coffees. I wonder if he'll come in. Oh, thank God. You can bring them. Please. We're desperado. I think especially in Texas, where we're from, Dallas, there was like a misconception that you can't be both.

You can't be the athlete and like in theater or you can't be. I mean, they didn't really let you is the thing. Yeah. Your schedule didn't really allow for that. But it's like very like high school musical Troy Bolton. Like he's like, you have to pick basketball or theater. That was Dallas was like that. I didn't watch that. But I think of it more as a like as your older sister. Like, you know, I was not the athlete. So I was like, stick to your lane. Yeah.

Have you really not seen High School Musical? Do you not know the song from it? No. Stick to the status quo. They all sing. Oh my God. You would think she saw the movie. Maybe she wrote the movie. You need to see it. Maybe I wrote it. Yeah, I think they all go hand in hand though too. Like the photography directing social media. Because when I started social media, to be a YouTuber, you had to care to learn how to like edit.

You know? There is a creative aspect to that. And still, I think even with TikTok, there is a creative, like, aspect to that. Unless you have the type of content where you're literally just filming and, like, 20 seconds and posting, you know? Yeah. There is, like, an art form to it. Mm-hmm. Anyway.

Yeah, I love that. I love seeing you sort of... You know, I think to your point, it's not a real dichotomy, but I do think there is something real to, well, A, the schedule at our high school, but also just B, like how much time you can devote to any one thing. And in high school, you really...

You were really dedicated, I think, especially to like your running, your track stuff, setting records. Okay. But you can't really dedicate all of your energy to multiple things, right? And so it's been cool to see you

Yeah. Delve into this and get better and better. It's crazy you can make a living out of this kind of thing. Yeah. I feel like also we grew up with a mentality of like, and what's your real job going to be? Even when I first started YouTube, I remember mom and dad being like,

But like, what are you going to do after all the time? And I'm like, yeah, we're going to figure that out as we go. Apparently they were so anxious. They would talk. They would call me and sort of be like, oh, my God, is she going to be OK? Like this can't possibly be a forever thing. And it was hard because it wasn't. Well, we were like, we really didn't know. Yeah, there wasn't a lot of people who had done it yet.

I remember when you first started gaining some fame, like had a lot of Instagram followers and whatnot. And like people in New York were sort of obsessed with Instagram and that would sort of like seep out at parties and there was no name for it. There was no name for influencer. Yeah.

Crazy. I know. And trying to explain it. And then when Influencer came around and I would be like going on first dates or something and talk about family. Oh, what's your sister do? And I was like...

She's like an influencer and people would roll their eyes, which nothing like, like sort of insulting my family to get me. Get in there. But also I'd be like, no, not like, not really like that. And then you'd watch this sort of like, they'd be joking, trying to, you know, whatever. And then you'd sort of watch the shame wash over them. When I was like, no, actually like she's an LGBTQ, like leader in the community. She's like doing cool things. Yeah.

But you better be an ally over there. Yeah. Hey, everybody. My name is Bob the Drag Queen. And I'm on the exchange...

And we are the hosts of Sibling Rivalry. This is a podcast where two best friends gab, talk, smack, and have a lot of fun with our Black queer selves. Yeah, for sure. And you know, we are family. So we talk about everything, honey, from why we don't like hugs to Black Lives Matter to interracial dating to other things. Right, Bob? Yes, and it gets messy, and we are not afraid to be wrong. So please join us over here.

at Sylvan Rivalry available anywhere you get your podcasts. You can listen and subscribe for free. For free, honey. Did you think you'd be a therapist? I have this memory. I don't know. I mean, you know, as a kid, I was like, I don't know what the options are. But I do have a memory of sitting in the hot tub with grandma. Remember when we had a hot tub for a second? And we were sitting in there. Remember when we had a grandma? Oh, that's so sad.

That is so dark. Yeah, that was really dark. Anyway, Grandma and I were sitting in the hot tub and I was playing with her hair. We were doing beauty shop. I love to do beauty shop. And so I'm putting her hair in a bunch of different barrettes and whatnot. I had to have been less than nine years old because we moved. We didn't have the hot tub anymore. And I just remember as we were playing, I was explaining that I –

Had a hair salon Or like I was a hairstylist And also I was a social worker Okay Yeah At nine? I know I think I was really obsessed with There was some show I wish I could remember what it was And it's probably not relatable To your audience at all Because I was little And this is when it was on TV But there was like an older woman Who was a social worker Right

And she like would go and like, you know, get kids out of their homes, but also like try to reunite people. Like it was, you know, like, I don't know. Yeah. I saw this like 70 year old woman on TV and I was like, that's me. That's what I want to do. That's crazy because it is kind of like what a therapist is. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, licensed social workers do the same work. Yeah. That's amazing. We're so proud of you. Thank you.

You're welcome. You know what I always think about like coming back to the hot tub thing is we moved like a good amount at the very beginning of my life and a way where it's helped me keep track of memories better. Yeah. Because we lived in that first house in Texas till I was four. So if I have any memory from that house, I'm like, wow, that was little. Like I can't even remember. Yeah. And then from six,

What? Four to seven We were in Ohio Yeah And that is like So memorable too Because it was so different Right And then Obviously from then on out In Dallas But then even when we were in Dallas Our parents moved from houses Like different houses So even the houses themselves I'm like Mark I must have been about like 14 I must have been about 16 I must have been I just feel like It's such a unique experience Like I

It helps mark time. Yeah. I used to envy kids who were like, my childhood bedroom has been the same like my whole life. I know. And I'm like, I don't think, I didn't decorate half my childhood bedroom. Yeah. Because I was like, when are we getting out of this place? I decorated them for you. That is true. Yeah.

That is true. I would come home from college and be like, how are you living this way? I don't know what I was doing. I don't really know. I mean, still to this day, I don't know. I think I'm like, I don't know if it's a defense mechanism to not be attached to things or something. But this is like one of my first bedrooms, my L.A. one now that I like actually tried to decorate at all. Yeah. Like thought about or cared about.

You've done such a nice job with it. It's really cute. Oh my God. It looks like a dorm room. We're upcycling soon. Don't worry. Rachel Walker is helping me. Oh, that's a... Yeah, she's going to make it look good. She's the best. She's the one who did my website. Yeah, she's... And people compliment it all the time. I'm always like, it wasn't me. I didn't do it. Yay, Rachel. Yeah, Rachel is awesome. My childhood best friend. All right. So talking about sort of moving around a lot. I mean, it's interesting because we're almost five years apart.

And yet I'm like, yeah, me too, actually. Like, because we moved before you were even born. Yep. And then same kind of thing, right? But I wonder, because you got to go to the same school. I was so envious. You got to, like, you did stay in the same school district for, from what, seven on? Yep. Like, when you think back, I don't know. It's interesting for me to think about you during that time and, like, how...

there's parts of you that are so consistent and then there's also things that feel so different different and I wonder if that resonates and like what parts feel consistent well this will might embarrass you but I I'll tell the basketball story oh my gosh you can't tell this one but I can tell it um

I remember, so being like five years older, I think I was, you must have been like a middle school. And I was either like late high school, early college. And mom asked me to go watch your basketball game. I loved watching you play basketball. I think...

Of all the sports, I was like, I don't know if what she's doing is any good, but it sure looks good. It wasn't that good. I'm like on B team. I'm starting on B team. You had so much grace, though. I was like, wait, this girl doesn't dance all that well, but man, she looks like she's dancing out there. So that was always fun to go and watch you. But I remember sitting in the stands and something happened on the court.

And that like whatever something with some social dynamics of who knows what and I just remember sitting up in the stands and watching all the other little girls look to you to see how to react and

And you were oblivious. Like, you were not trying to get them to look at you. You didn't care that they were checking to see what you were doing. Which is always the case, right? Like, that's why that person becomes the person that everybody looks to. But I am not that person. And I...

I, again, being old enough to sort of recognize it and also like a phase of life where I was super aware of those things, you know, I just remember going, oh my God, mom, mom, are you seeing this? Oh my God. And so I think that was like the first time for me it really clicked. Like you kind of, in part because you are a little bit like distant and in your own head sometimes and not really concerned in that way. People do, yeah,

you know and also you're cool you know like people like gravitate towards you they want to see what you're doing they want to kind of you know that's so nice Casey that is a nice story honestly

It is a nice story. It's a nice memory. And I think it's something I think about a lot with, like, the career that you've made. I think it's, you know, we all come into this world with weird little superpowers. That's true. And a lot of times our superpowers aren't born from, you know, like, I don't think that that comes... In some ways, actually, I know you well enough to know, like, you can be a little insecure and, like, in your own head. I mean...

As everybody, right? But I also recognize those things in you that I think other people might see and think, oh, she's being aloof. And I'm like, oh, no, she's so uncomfy. She's so uncomfy. Yeah, that's so true. But it is. It's like, you know, how do you... I mean, I think this is a big piece of... Like, this is something that's always in my mind when I'm working with clients, too, is it's like, how do we sort of find...

What about you makes you special, you know, and go with that instead of going against it and let you kind of lean into these beautiful things that give you these little superpowers. That's so true. We all are born or like have these super like quirky, cool, like different things about us. Like if you can figure out what it is. Yeah. That's like.

That's the secret sauce. That's the secret sauce. That's the secret sauce. And it's so cool to have watched you like make an entire career out of it. I'm like, I mean, that really is like at least the launching pad. And that's not what's sort of helped the career evolve and allowed you to stay in this. I think, again, going back to you're really creative and, you know, you do all these things. But I do think it was like...

It gave you the place to start. I mean, people, yeah, I think I talked about this recently, but that people always ask me like what gave me the bravery to like start posting online even because so many people have such a, oh, what do you call it? Like, I think we're all get so scared that people are going to judge us for doing it. Yeah. Every time I also explain, I'm like, it was just such a different time of social media that I didn't even know that I was doing something like that. I wasn't thinking like, oh, here's this very brave thing that I'm doing. You know, I kind of was like,

This is this, like, secret thing I'm doing. I don't know. I also think there's a little bit of the, like, impulsivity that it can be bad and work against and, like, also...

Yeah. Can sort of allow you to not overthink things sometimes. Hit post, baby. Yeah. There's a lot of overthinking. I mean, I feel like, I don't know if this resonates with you, but I feel this way about me. I think it's something probably linked to maybe some like neuro divergency. Yeah.

ADHD, have you ever heard of it? Yeah. As I pick the dog hair off my pant leg. Yeah, where you kind of like, you don't think about it too much beforehand, but maybe you overthink a lot afterwards. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Definitely. But it does...

I mean, I think one of the upsides to that is it allows you to take the leap, you know? So true. And then afterwards you're like, oh my God, what did I do? No, that's so true. Okay. I, this is totally off track, but I want to ask you about this for sure. And we're, I don't want to run out of time, but recently on Tik TOK, this Tik TOK went viral of this girl saying, just think like somewhere in the world, the worst person, you know, is getting validated by their therapist. Yeah. And as a therapist, like, what is your take on that?

You're supposed to show me these. I love, you said that there was some guy who had a nice... There was a therapist who stitched it and he gave his example. Yeah. But I feel like you already had your own ideas about it. Yeah. Well, okay. So having not seen it. Yeah. I mean, that's literally what she said. Yeah. She's literally like somewhere in the world, the worst person you know is being validated by their therapist. Yeah. I think what we talked about the other night is just like,

Yes and no. You know, I mean, I think as a therapist, our job is to, yeah, it's to validate a lot of feelings and help people, you know, sort of be easy on themselves about what they're experiencing. Our job is also to challenge things. And so, you know, if somebody's defense mechanisms are getting in their way...

you know, getting in their way of their relationships and whatnot. Yeah. We're also like, yeah, we might be saying, I can totally see why you would feel that way. Yeah. You know? And also, I wonder, I wonder what made you respond that way. Like, I wonder where that might have been coming from, you know, and kind of trying to help people realize like, these are the ways that you're pushing people away to, to protect yourself. I mean,

So, yeah, I don't know. My reaction to that was sort of like, that's funny. Yeah. And wrong. Yeah, yeah, totally. I like what you said about...

About how people heal. Like, how do people heal? I think, yeah, I think we were talking about, like, personality disorders in general. Yeah, specifically. Yeah. In that conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Because, like, I think some of the comments on that were, like, yeah, like, my narcissist ex-boyfriend is somewhere, like, being told, you're great or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. This is one of the trends in social media that really gets under my skin is, like, I think there are a few things that are just really...

I think narcissism has always been a big one. People talk about narcissism so much. The truth is we're all a little bit narcissistic. In fact, it's self-protective to be a little bit narcissistic. So it's easy to see it everywhere because it is everywhere. Because we all have a little bit. I mean, it's like what keeps us alive. If we didn't all have a little bit of narcissism, why would we keep doing this? Yeah, exactly. And I think that just in general narcissism

personality disorders really are just like their personality right so like um the other one that's trends are the other two things that i think trend that i'm like okay uh it's borderline that one gets a lot of noise the truth is there are so many more personality disorders and i think if you ask most people those are the only two that people really know um

And then they're trying to diagnose all these people in their life with, you know, those that limited information. If it's not that, it must be that. Because let me tell you, it's something. Yeah, this person is difficult. So these are the two things I know. It must be one of these two things. And then the other thing that really is funny because it's also a little bit a specialty of mine is like the neurodivergent stuff, you know, like autism and depression.

ADHD and those two a little bit are like, yes and, you know, like. But when it comes to personality disorders, the way I remember learning about it and it stuck with me was this, like, if you look at all of the different disorders, everybody has traits from multiple. And that's a good thing that makes your personality, like that makes you interesting. Where it becomes problematic is when

your personality really starts to lean into just one or two of those sort of disorders and becomes really rigid and fixed. Yeah. And so, you know,

And didn't you say that is kind of like just defense mechanism usually? A hundred percent. Right. It's like, it's the way that we protect ourselves in the world and our difficult feelings really. Like we're protecting a lot of things within ourselves. Yeah. And we need those things. Like that's important. Yeah. But helping people sort of become a little bit less rigid, a little bit less stuck and like, you know, being able to see things through a broader lens is so important. And I think the thing that,

we talked about the other night was just like, well, how do you break a defense? You know, and I remember like, I think I asked you like, how do you, you know, and this like idea of like, oh, that person is being validated. It's like, well, yeah, they are because how do you break down a defense? With love. With love. Yeah, exactly. But it's true, right? Like if you want to make change in the world, you

It's really hard because the best way to do it is to come to people from a place of open mindedness and empathy and love. And nobody's going to make changes in their personality unless they feel genuinely accepted and loved. And cared about. Yeah. And seen. And like, that's the only way that any of us feel like we can kind of.

let the ugly sides of us show. So true. We all have those shadows, you know? So true. Speaking of the ugly sides of ourselves, I'm kidding. It's not even, but do you think that there is a, do you think in our family there is a tendency to be in relationships by our family? I mean, even just me and you. Just us. Is this coming from a place of anxiety? Are you worried about this? My tummy hurts. Yeah.

I mean, I think it's just something we... The podcast is about dating and sex, right? Yeah. And I'm like, I do feel... I just want to know what you think about that, about our family's dynamic with relationships and, like, romantic relationships in particular. I'm so curious because, like, you're asking me because you've definitely got a theory, but, I mean...

don't know I mean I think I don't really have a theory I'm asking too because you're a therapist so I'm like I know you can't diagnose then there's nothing to diagnose I'm just saying where does that come from where does that come from like being in I mean I think there's multiple ways of looking at it I think you can look at it through like a pathologizing lens you know and sort of say like

for people who are constantly in relationships, you can say like, oh, they can't be alone. You know, they don't want to be alone with their own thoughts. They're seeking validation from the outside. You know, I think there's lots of ways to pathologize people who sort of jump from relationship to relationship. And certainly when we're doing that and we're not taking the time for ourselves, so we don't feel good being on our own. Yeah. That's a problem. Yeah. You know?

I think it's hard to say. I mean, there's I'm guessing you're referring to you, me, mom and dad. Yeah. Yeah. Except for mom is a little different. Yeah, she's a little different. I mean, but that's what I was gonna say is actually each of us, I think, is a little different. So it's kind of hard to say. I mean, I would just say we're all the three of me, you and dad, at least are all serial monogamists.

Yeah. I'm most part. Yeah. I mean, I, yes, I don't know. I also, this is something that I think is coming up for you right now in a real way, like getting out of another relationship. And I also feel like, you know, maybe feedback that you're taking from outside. Yeah. And, uh, cause I, cause I hear that and I'm sort of like, I don't know that that's entirely fair. Like, I don't think that's entirely fair to you. I've seen you date people and be single. Um,

And I think there's a, and I feel the same about myself. I'm like, I mean, I just joked about first dates. I went on a lot of them. Yeah, true. True. I definitely have had long periods of being single and I really like it. I feel quite good in that. But I think there's also a really different way of looking at people who are in relationships. I mean, I think this was something maybe we talked about in a toast at Dad's

Most recent wedding. Most recent wedding. Is there's also like the courage to keep trying. That is so sweet. But it's true. I think a lot of people aren't out there getting into relationships out of a place of fear. Yeah. You know, there is something to be said for...

hey i want a partner in this world you know whether it's a forever partner or i like having a partner yeah you know i mean i know for me again i really like being single i love having all my own time i also really love sharing things with somebody and um sort of the challenge of like okay how do we navigate this together and you know um and having somebody to

Be excited about. Like and be like hey how was your day? So. Plus relationships are like truly your biggest like mirror. I feel like you can learn so much about yourself. Yeah. If you allow yourself to within a relationship you know. That's true. And I remember listening to a podcast that was a lot about dating. And I thought this really was spot on is that.

Actually, these short, brief relationships can sometimes be the ones where you learn the most about yourself. The ones that don't really just work. Yeah, but it's like somebody you really like and maybe you dated them for three to six months or whatever. There's a lot of meat in there. There's a lot of like, okay, why was I drawn to this? Why were they drawn to me? Yeah, and like how did I...

How did that not work? And then does that sort of maybe mirror some bigger themes maybe in my longer relationships? Because in a long relationship, I think it's also a if it's a really long relationship, it's probably working. OK. Yeah. Right. Maybe not great. Maybe there's a lot of problems, but there's something that's gluing the two of you together. Yeah. Most of the time. Yeah.

And I think you can kind of get into this rhythm where it becomes really hard to say like, what's you? What's me? And what's us? Whereas when you're dating and it's just like a short, like a shorter thing, it's way more clear. Like, oh, that's you. Oh, my God, that's me. I've seen this before. This is me. Yeah.

The one person you can't escape. Yeah. I hope you guys like this episode. I'm coming back to New York in a week or two. So if you did like this episode with Casey. Yeah. March 18th. I'm coming back. Yeah. Great. So if you like this episode with Casey and you want me to sit back down with her and do a longer, more in-depth conversation, we could do that. If you have questions for Casey for the future regarding like therapy, regarding anything that you would want to ask a therapist or my sister, um,

Leave it below. Yeah, I'm so anxious now about what I've said. I'm sort of like, I didn't really. No, you said so much great stuff. Good job. It's sort of the impulsivity. Here we go. I like to speak and then, oh my God, what did I say? You didn't do anything. You did everything great. Okay, great. Okay. Love you guys so much.

And yeah, I'm like, I was going to, I don't need to tell them to follow you on anything because it's a different vibe than what I'm usually doing. No, but I am opening a new office. She's opening a new office. Yeah. So when that, when there's actually something to plug. Okay. Yeah. We'll keep you posted. Yeah, we'll keep you posted. Bye. Bye.